Guild Wars 2

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aamx8/gw2_lash_and_love/csbep7t

^^^^^^^^^

This was posted in response to a reddit thread in which a blog post took tweets from Anet devs out of context and attempted to paint the GW2 community as a violent hate mob. I just wanted to dispel some of the fog clouding this aspect of the recent controversy.

Obviously personal attacks on devs who have nothing to do with marketing is deplorable. However, there is no real evidence that this has occurred. So far, it’s just a lot of upset customers voicing their opinions on marketing. In my humble opinion, guilt-tripping people with a false narrative is just as deplorable as actual harassment.

Please folks, lets stick to the facts and evidence.

Edit:

https://twitter.com/kuraine/status/611593774397980672

To speak to a few points though: I don’t feel attacked. It’s an aura of negativity toward my work that otherwise puts a pall over the day.

Yes, the devs are depressed right now over this controversy. It’s not because of personal attacks though. It’s because their hard work is being washed aside while the community fixates on a marketing issue.

My problem is when people start to spin this narrative for the purpose of changing the subject and sweeping the legit concerns under the rug. I just want to stick up for the community’s right to complain rationally and politely. I don’t mean to disregard the humanity of the Anet team.

Wow seriously. .this is getting out of hand. Anet say something… release some info…. do something. …stop with the silent treatment. …

They deserve every bit coming to them….
It’s been building for a long time.

Odyssey.2613:

They deserve every bit coming to them….
It’s been building for a long time.

The only thing Anet deserves is a little patience, and reasonable discussion. In turn we deserve to have our concerns heard and not swept under the victimhood rug.

Xenon.4537:

Odyssey.2613:

They deserve every bit coming to them….
It’s been building for a long time.

The only thing Anet deserves is a little patience, and reasonable discussion. In turn we deserve to have our concerns heard and not swept under the victimhood rug.

Why? They treated their players like idiots and even banned players for voicing an opinion, deleted posts and censored players whenever they spoke bad about Anet. This time they just couldn’t suppress it all so they got overwhelmed.

Odyssey.2613:

They deserve every bit coming to them….
It’s been building for a long time.

Where is my downvote button? >.>

No, no one deserves their words being twisted against them.

I like how there’s no actual substance or argument in that and it appealed solely to emotion, acting one-sided as if Anet is this poor, delicate little flower who get’s easily hurt by criticism.

This is actually a disgusting attempt to shut down any criticism people are giving against HoT by claiming that Anet has been so terribly hurt. And who are the people acting this way? The people defending HoT. It really is pathetic. Show some respect to Anet, they’re not pathetic enough to be crushed by mean wittle words

You guys are very good at using the “innocent victim” guise.

This isn’t the first time I’ve read about how hurtful internet vitriol can be to game developers. I take it, Savior, that you wouldn’t mind being pelted with epithets and refuse each day as you walk to work. Since you’re not a delicate flower like those silly ANet devs.

Criticism is expected and encouraged. Harassment is not. In my state, Harassing Course of Conduct is worth a few months in jail (oddly, Harassing Phone Calls carries years in jail … ). Being hurt by hateful calumny doesn’t make you a wilting flower, it makes you a human being who cares what others think of you and your work.

Savior.5783:

I like how there’s no actual substance or argument in that and it appealed solely to emotion, acting one-sided as if Anet is this poor, delicate little flower who get’s easily hurt by criticism.

This is actually a disgusting attempt to shut down any criticism people are giving against HoT by claiming that Anet has been so terribly hurt. And who are the people acting this way? The people defending HoT. It really is pathetic. Show some respect to Anet, they’re not pathetic enough to be crushed by mean wittle words

You guys are very good at using the “innocent victim” guise.

Indeed I find the whole thing degrading to both Anet and the player base. Anet are not helpless victims. The are strong, self-sufficient adults like the rest of us. Likewise, the players are not rabid dogs lashing out with no cause. There are some very good points to be made. In fact Massively did a great article outlining most of it.

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/18/why-guild-wars-2s-prepurchase-deal-has-the-internet-raging/

Playing the victim card is nothing more than an attempt to poison the community. It’s the same tactic politicians use when they call you racist for simply criticizing someone who happens to be a minority, even when your criticism has nothing to do with race. They use fear of association to make you stop complaining, and help silence the complaints, by associating those complaints with racism, sexism, or violence.

I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who is trying to cheat me
Then again I am against harassment (it is simply useless in my opinion), and have always tried to present logical arguments about why this whole thing is unfair, without trying to offend anyone

last and least: it is my personal opinion that if you get offended by random people on the internet you should work on your self esteem a bit

KGS.9842:

last and least: it is my personal opinion that if you get offended by random people on the internet you should work on your self esteem a bit

This a great answer
I will use it , when i have multiply conversations with various ppl on the forums :P

Btw when Miss Gailie is taking a holiday break ? :P
(i want my signature space …. /sadface)

Donari.5237:

This isn’t the first time I’ve read about how hurtful internet vitriol can be to game developers. I take it, Savior, that you wouldn’t mind being pelted with epithets and refuse each day as you walk to work. Since you’re not a delicate flower like those silly ANet devs.

Criticism is expected and encouraged. Harassment is not. In my state, Harassing Course of Conduct is worth a few months in jail (oddly, Harassing Phone Calls carries years in jail … ). Being hurt by hateful calumny doesn’t make you a wilting flower, it makes you a human being who cares what others think of you and your work.

You make it sound as if internet comments are equal to actually being physically pelted with real feces in real life. I’m sorry, but they are not the same. People have a right to speak (at least they do in my country) and that right doesn’t magically stop when someone’s feelings get hurt. Granted these forums are owned and moderated by a private company, but that’s a whole side discussion. The fact remains that there’s a huge difference between digital text and actual physical violence.

The problem isn’t the price but the value and from the looks of that chart we’re not getting much for our money compared to past content from Anet.

Xenon.4537:

Indeed I find the whole thing degrading to both Anet and the player base. Anet are not helpless victims. The are strong, self-sufficient adults like the rest of us. Likewise, the players are not rabid dogs lashing out with no cause. There are some very good points to be made. In fact Massively did a great article outlining most of it.

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/18/why-guild-wars-2s-prepurchase-deal-has-the-internet-raging/

Playing the victim card is nothing more than an attempt to poison the community. It’s the same tactic politicians use when they call you racist for simply criticizing someone who happens to be a minority, even when your criticism has nothing to do with race. They use fear of association to make you stop complaining, and help silence the complaints, by associating those complaints with racism, sexism, or violence.

Yes, I very much agree my friend. It’s a really sick tactic. What’s more depressing is that the people who are using this on behalf of Anet (what’s funny is Anet isn’t even claiming to be a victim of anything) seem to be the type (from what I read of that post for example) to genuinely believe that they are the victims in this whole debacle.

Leon Heart XIII.4609:

The problem isn’t the price but the value and from the looks of that chart we’re not getting much for our money compared to past content from Anet.

I appreciate the comment, but this thread isn’t about whether or not the pre-purchase is worth it, justified, needs revision, or any of that. It’s about the emerging (false) narrative that this controversy is being pushed by an ignorant, angry, self-entitled, hate mob. The truth is simply that people are upset and have voiced their concerns, albeit loudly.

Donari.5237:

This isn’t the first time I’ve read about how hurtful internet vitriol can be to game developers. I take it, Savior, that you wouldn’t mind being pelted with epithets and refuse each day as you walk to work. Since you’re not a delicate flower like those silly ANet devs.

Criticism is expected and encouraged. Harassment is not. In my state, Harassing Course of Conduct is worth a few months in jail (oddly, Harassing Phone Calls carries years in jail … ). Being hurt by hateful calumny doesn’t make you a wilting flower, it makes you a human being who cares what others think of you and your work.

The vast majority are not saying anything hurtful enough for it to be illegal.

It’s easy to claim to be truly hurt by words considering the grey area of the nature of “meaningful” offense, and it seems like many people are abusing that circumstance to direct the discussion of HoT away to pretending to be appalled by the “abuse” Anet is getting.

What do you think counts for “harassment” in the first place? Telling a game developer that their game is garbage is not harassment.

There are countless of those stereotypical pink-haired indie devs from san fran and cali that make games that are genuinely disliked by many that saying “hey your game is trash”, although vulgar and unnecessary, is pretty true. And then the same devs go onto certain websites complaining how gamers are so mean and entitled.

What’s worse is pretending to be so offended that you’ve become a broken human being, oblivious to the sheer amount of mental and physical pain and torture a human being can possibly deal- it makes you seem like babies that, frankly, need to get your %$*& together.

Xenon.4537:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aamx8/gw2_lash_and_love/csbep7t

^^^^^^^^^

This was posted in response to a reddit thread in which a blog post took tweets from Anet devs out of context and attempted to paint the GW2 community as a violent hate mob. I just wanted to dispel some of the fog clouding this aspect of the recent controversy.

Obviously personal attacks on devs who have nothing to do with marketing is deplorable. However, there is no real evidence that this has occurred. So far, it’s just a lot of upset customers voicing their opinions on marketing. In my humble opinion, guilt-tripping people with a false narrative is just as deplorable as actual harassment.

Please folks, lets stick to the facts and evidence.

The article you’re referring to didnt paint the community as a"violent hate mob" at all. It only stated some are insensitive and use hurtful words.

and for clarity in the link you posted doesnt say the author of that article took tweets out of context. It actually says readers might take that tweet and other tweets he made out of context and conclude he’s complaining that he is being harassed when he is not.

Harassment takes many forms calling people liars, cheats and worst hurts especially when its not true. Urging others to boycott their works threatens their livelihood and that too is a form of harassment. There were even attempts to dehumanize the devs by making refusing to see anything beyond the corporate entity. Asking for certain teams to be removed / fired is also a form of harassment

Yes that article is perfectly right things have gone way to far. I dont expect everyone to agree with every decision Arenanet makes but hey just cause one does not agree with a specific promotion they’re running does that mean they should call a boycott, ask for people to get fired. Could people simply calmly explain their issue and what they expect without any form of attacks? Its not like doing that never led anywhere either! pointing at Trait unlocking as an example.

Xenon.4537:

Obviously personal attacks on devs who have nothing to do with marketing is deplorable. However, there is no real evidence that this has occurred. So far, it’s just a lot of upset customers voicing their opinions on marketing. In my humble opinion, guilt-tripping people with a false narrative is just as deplorable as actual harassment. .

Amen, I’ve been following all those threads pretty closely and I have yet to see even 1 personal attack toward an employee. Nobody is angry at the devs, at least nobody was, now people are angry because they’re playing the victim card unjustly.

They just keep shooting themselves in the foot over and over again.

Savior.5783:

I like how there’s no actual substance or argument in that and it appealed solely to emotion, acting one-sided as if Anet is this poor, delicate little flower who get’s easily hurt by criticism.

This is actually a disgusting attempt to shut down any criticism people are giving against HoT by claiming that Anet has been so terribly hurt. And who are the people acting this way? The people defending HoT. It really is pathetic. Show some respect to Anet, they’re not pathetic enough to be crushed by mean wittle words

You guys are very good at using the “innocent victim” guise.

yes you got us, its a clever way to shut down criticism in disguise because naturally there is no way to criticism something without attacking and being hurtful to the people creating that something. Ergo if we get our way and people start simply being polite all criticism will seize.

dont try to justify being rude and hurtful with freedom of speech please. Being respectful doesn’t diminish communication in anyway in fact generally is quite the opposite. After all the saying goes “you catch more bees with honey” it doesnt say “you catch more bees with poison”

I still haven’t seen harassment of a dev.

I am not saying that all of the criticism of the handling of the pre-purchase announcements has been civil, but that is no more a harassment of an employee than would be a sign saying Exxon sucks after a preventable oilspill.

Galen Grey.4709:

Savior.5783:

I like how there’s no actual substance or argument in that and it appealed solely to emotion, acting one-sided as if Anet is this poor, delicate little flower who get’s easily hurt by criticism.

This is actually a disgusting attempt to shut down any criticism people are giving against HoT by claiming that Anet has been so terribly hurt. And who are the people acting this way? The people defending HoT. It really is pathetic. Show some respect to Anet, they’re not pathetic enough to be crushed by mean wittle words

You guys are very good at using the “innocent victim” guise.

yes you got us, its a clever way to shut down criticism in disguise because naturally there is no way to criticism something without attacking and being hurtful to the people creating that something. Ergo if we get our way and people start simply being polite all criticism will seize.

dont try to justify being rude and hurtful with freedom of speech please. Being respectful doesn’t diminish communication in anyway in fact generally is quite the opposite. After all the saying goes “you catch more bees with honey” it doesnt say “you catch more bees with poison”

Lol what? I justify being rude and hurtful towards people who are knowingly being immoral and shameless people. Claiming victimhood is just that- it’s disgusting.

Savior.5783:

Galen Grey.4709:

Savior.5783:

I like how there’s no actual substance or argument in that and it appealed solely to emotion, acting one-sided as if Anet is this poor, delicate little flower who get’s easily hurt by criticism.

This is actually a disgusting attempt to shut down any criticism people are giving against HoT by claiming that Anet has been so terribly hurt. And who are the people acting this way? The people defending HoT. It really is pathetic. Show some respect to Anet, they’re not pathetic enough to be crushed by mean wittle words

You guys are very good at using the “innocent victim” guise.

yes you got us, its a clever way to shut down criticism in disguise because naturally there is no way to criticism something without attacking and being hurtful to the people creating that something. Ergo if we get our way and people start simply being polite all criticism will seize.

dont try to justify being rude and hurtful with freedom of speech please. Being respectful doesn’t diminish communication in anyway in fact generally is quite the opposite. After all the saying goes “you catch more bees with honey” it doesnt say “you catch more bees with poison”

Lol what? I justify being rude and hurtful towards people who are knowingly being immoral and shameless people. Claiming victimhood is just that- it’s disgusting.

Which individuals are being immoral and shameless ?

Savior.5783:

Galen Grey.4709:

Savior.5783:

I like how there’s no actual substance or argument in that and it appealed solely to emotion, acting one-sided as if Anet is this poor, delicate little flower who get’s easily hurt by criticism.

This is actually a disgusting attempt to shut down any criticism people are giving against HoT by claiming that Anet has been so terribly hurt. And who are the people acting this way? The people defending HoT. It really is pathetic. Show some respect to Anet, they’re not pathetic enough to be crushed by mean wittle words

You guys are very good at using the “innocent victim” guise.

yes you got us, its a clever way to shut down criticism in disguise because naturally there is no way to criticism something without attacking and being hurtful to the people creating that something. Ergo if we get our way and people start simply being polite all criticism will seize.

dont try to justify being rude and hurtful with freedom of speech please. Being respectful doesn’t diminish communication in anyway in fact generally is quite the opposite. After all the saying goes “you catch more bees with honey” it doesnt say “you catch more bees with poison”

Lol what? I justify being rude and hurtful towards people who are knowingly being immoral and shameless people. Claiming victimhood is just that- it’s disgusting.

thing is them being immoral and shameless is your own personal opinion. You may be right but you may also be wrong. If you’re wrong what happens to your justifications then? Even if you’re right do you believe all 350 people working at Arenanet are guilty? do they deserve your rude / hurtful comments too?

Xenon.4537:

I appreciate the comment, but this thread isn’t about whether or not the pre-purchase is worth it, justified, needs revision, or any of that. It’s about the emerging (false) narrative that this controversy is being pushed by an ignorant, angry, self-entitled, hate mob. The truth is simply that people are upset and have voiced their concerns, albeit loudly.

Tbf I didn’t say anything for the first few days but people went nuts, they were a crazed mob. They’ve calmed down a little now but saying there weren’t masses of ignorant, angry, self-entitled, hatefilled people would be willful blindness.

Ashen.2907:

Which individuals are being immoral and shameless ?

Ones playing the victim card at the face of criticism (not harassment).

Savior.5783:

Ashen.2907:

Which individuals are being immoral and shameless ?

Ones playing the victim card at the face of criticism (not harassment).

Which ones are those though ?

Galen Grey.4709:

thing is them being immoral and shameless is your own personal opinion. You may be right but you may also be wrong. If you’re wrong what happens to your justifications then? Even if you’re right do you believe all 350 people working at Arenanet are guilty? do they deserve your rude / hurtful comments too?

Playing the victim card when being criticized by reasonable and logical points is immoral because the person, in pretending to be a victim, is attempting to shut down said criticism and thus is a “liar” who opposes attempt at truth. They also use the severity and nature of actual victims and thus downplay true victim’s suffering, and this especially is what makes such people immoral and shameless in their delusion because they are purposefully ignorant or careless towards the suffering of real victims and to the validity of criticisms (thus they are opposing the desire for uncovering truth, which we should all agree is a good thing to uncover truth no matter what it is)

Ashen.2907:

Savior.5783:

Ashen.2907:

Which individuals are being immoral and shameless ?

Ones playing the victim card at the face of criticism (not harassment).

Which ones are those though ?

In this case? They’re people who usually defend HoT on the behalf of Anet by claiming Anet is being abused and harassed.

Oh my god, people are seriously doing this? I’m so sorry Anet.

Ashen.2907:

I still haven’t seen harassment of a dev.

I am not saying that all of the criticism of the handling of the pre-purchase announcements has been civil, but that is no more a harassment of an employee than would be a sign saying Exxon sucks after a preventable oilspill.

quote some from various posts
“The marketing department for Anet should be fired. No reprimand, no unpaid leave… Clean out your desk by the end of business hours.”

How about GaileGray being downvoted into oblivion to the point her account has now negative karma on reddit? and btw thats for posting this “Hey all. As I mentioned on another thread, we are really happy to be launching pre-purchase of Heart of Thorns! We just want to let you know that $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it. FYI: There won’t be any other HoT editions, just so you know.”

Reddit rules are clear you only downvote when posts arent related to the subject at hands not because you dont like what one is saying hence the down voting is clearly retaliatory which is harassment.

name calling is also considered harrasment and I dont know how you managed to miss the sea of that going on right now. Plenty of examples in this thread itself.

Unfortunately, the player base has built an overwhelming amount of entitlement throughout the years. I feel for Anet, and hope they take everything that is being thrown at them in stride. I just hope they know that even though there is a disgusting amount of negativity to some employees work, that has been in the making for 2 years. I hope they know that there are those of us, who know the true value of them, and wish them the best, and they will never lose my business.

I have my disagreements about the way the prepurchase has been handled, but jesus christ this uproar has gotten way out of hand. :/

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

I still haven’t seen harassment of a dev.

I am not saying that all of the criticism of the handling of the pre-purchase announcements has been civil, but that is no more a harassment of an employee than would be a sign saying Exxon sucks after a preventable oilspill.

quote some from various posts
1) “The marketing department for Anet should be fired. No reprimand, no unpaid leave… Clean out your desk by the end of business hours.”

2) How about GaileGray being downvoted into oblivion to the point her account has now negative karma on reddit? and btw thats for posting this “Hey all. As I mentioned on another thread, we are really happy to be launching pre-purchase of Heart of Thorns! We just want to let you know that $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it. FYI: There won’t be any other HoT editions, just so you know.”

Reddit rules are clear you only downvote when posts arent related to the subject at hands not because you dont like what one is saying hence the down voting is clearly retaliatory which is harassment.

3) name calling is also considered harrasment and I dont know how you managed to miss the sea of that going on right now. Plenty of examples in this thread itself.

Numbering mine to aid in response.

1) Not harassment.

2) Not harassment but, if your description of reddit rules is correct, certainly actionable by the reddit staff.

3) For example ?

Savior.5783:

Ashen.2907:

Savior.5783:

Ashen.2907:

Which individuals are being immoral and shameless ?

Ones playing the victim card at the face of criticism (not harassment).

Which ones are those though ?

In this case? They’re people who usually defend HoT on the behalf of Anet by claiming Anet is being abused and harassed.

Ahh, I see. I thought you were referring to specific devs. I have not seen one playing the victim card and so was curious as to where you had seen it.

Coulter.2315:

Xenon.4537:

I appreciate the comment, but this thread isn’t about whether or not the pre-purchase is worth it, justified, needs revision, or any of that. It’s about the emerging (false) narrative that this controversy is being pushed by an ignorant, angry, self-entitled, hate mob. The truth is simply that people are upset and have voiced their concerns, albeit loudly.

Tbf I didn’t say anything for the first few days but people went nuts, they were a crazed mob. They’ve calmed down a little now but saying there weren’t masses of ignorant, angry, self-entitled, hatefilled people would be willful blindness.

From what I saw, any angry hateful posts were by players attacking other players for simply complaining in the first place. I saw a lot of condescending parody threads, making critics out like they are cheapskates who want free stuff for nothing. It’s no wonder an angry reaction blew up when there are so many trolls running around dismissing honest discussion with insults and parody.

Savior.5783:

Galen Grey.4709:

thing is them being immoral and shameless is your own personal opinion. You may be right but you may also be wrong. If you’re wrong what happens to your justifications then? Even if you’re right do you believe all 350 people working at Arenanet are guilty? do they deserve your rude / hurtful comments too?

Playing the victim card when being criticized by reasonable and logical points is immoral because the person, in pretending to be a victim, is attempting to shut down said criticism and thus is a “liar” who opposes attempt at truth. They also use the severity and nature of actual victims and thus downplay true victim’s suffering, and this especially is what makes such people immoral and shameless in their delusion because they are purposefully ignorant or careless towards the suffering of real victims and to the validity of criticisms (thus they are opposing the desire for uncovering truth, which we should all agree is a good thing to uncover truth no matter what it is)

lets start with the basic fact no one is playing the victim card. Saying certain attitude is not acceptable is not the same as saying you’re being victimize. Besides the coin has two faces. Wouldnt what you’re saying equaly apply to those claiming they’re being unfairly silenced by the other party because of the rudeness?

I mean just to prove the point you yourself used the term “real victims” just to drive in the point you feel victimized!

so wouldnt it be better to express your critizism politely so that no one feels victimize and uses that as a weapon to get out of seeking the truth?

since when reasonable and logical points can only be expressed through attacks, name calling and rudeness?

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

I still haven’t seen harassment of a dev.

I am not saying that all of the criticism of the handling of the pre-purchase announcements has been civil, but that is no more a harassment of an employee than would be a sign saying Exxon sucks after a preventable oilspill.

quote some from various posts
“The marketing department for Anet should be fired. No reprimand, no unpaid leave… Clean out your desk by the end of business hours.”

How about GaileGray being downvoted into oblivion to the point her account has now negative karma on reddit? and btw thats for posting this “Hey all. As I mentioned on another thread, we are really happy to be launching pre-purchase of Heart of Thorns! We just want to let you know that $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it. FYI: There won’t be any other HoT editions, just so you know.”

Reddit rules are clear you only downvote when posts arent related to the subject at hands not because you dont like what one is saying hence the down voting is clearly retaliatory which is harassment.

name calling is also considered harrasment and I dont know how you managed to miss the sea of that going on right now. Plenty of examples in this thread itself.

So downvoting comments on a website called reddit is harassment?

Lmao

Back then harassment used to mean being thrown garbage at, being ridiculed, continually abused and disrespected, and treated like trash for no good reason. I didn’t know having a red thumbs down is a part of that definition now. How respectful towards people that have faced actual harassment in their lives. Harassment is something perpetual.

Ashen.2907:

Savior.5783:

Ashen.2907:

Savior.5783:

Ashen.2907:

Which individuals are being immoral and shameless ?

Ones playing the victim card at the face of criticism (not harassment).

Which ones are those though ?

In this case? They’re people who usually defend HoT on the behalf of Anet by claiming Anet is being abused and harassed.

Ahh, I see. I thought you were referring to specific devs. I have not seen one playing the victim card and so was curious as to where you had seen it.

There weren’t any specific devs claiming harassment that I know of. This is spin from an article quoting devs vague tweets. Are they being harassed? I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t believe so, because in fact at least 1 of the quoted devs denied being harassed. It’s just political spin. The reddit thread and the article are linked in the OP.

Xenon.4537:

Ashen.2907:

Savior.5783:

Ashen.2907:

Savior.5783:

Ashen.2907:

Which individuals are being immoral and shameless ?

Ones playing the victim card at the face of criticism (not harassment).

Which ones are those though ?

In this case? They’re people who usually defend HoT on the behalf of Anet by claiming Anet is being abused and harassed.

Ahh, I see. I thought you were referring to specific devs. I have not seen one playing the victim card and so was curious as to where you had seen it.

There weren’t any specific devs claiming harassment that I know of. This is spin from an article quoting devs vague tweets. Are they being harassed? I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t believe so, because in fact at least 1 of the quoted devs denied being harassed. It’s just political spin. The reddit thread and the article are linked in the OP.

Oh yeah, I had seen (and agree with) your post on the matter and had read the quoted thread/article. I just thought that Savior had seen something else.

I think that part of the disagreement going on here is that some people honestly seem to think that someone being rude is the same as harassment. They are of course wrong. It is possible to be rude while harassing someone but not all rudeness is harassment.

I wonder if this is a product of a generation which seems to get their feelings hurt if someone doesn’t want to be their digital “friend” or doesn’t “like” them.

Galen Grey.4709:

lets start with the basic fact no one is playing the victim card. Saying certain attitude is not acceptable is not the same as saying you’re being victimize. Besides the coin has two faces. Wouldnt what you’re saying equaly apply to those claiming they’re being unfairly silenced by the other party because of the rudeness?

I mean just to prove the point you yourself used the term “real victims” just to drive in the point you feel victimized!

so wouldnt it be better to express your critizism politely so that no one feels victimize and uses that as a weapon to get out of seeking the truth?

since when reasonable and logical points can only be expressed through attacks, name calling and rudeness?

There are people claiming Anet are innocent as an attempt to downplay what they’ve done. So you’re wrong there, look at the forums.

Saying a certain attitude is not acceptable, depending on the attitude, when the actions of the attitude do not exist in the first place is wrong.

How the *&^$ are you silenced by other peoples’ rudeness? Can you not still post? Are you being physically restricted? Garbage.

Also I never implied or even said that I was being victimized. Did you even read my post?

And you’re implying being rude and calling people names is unjustified in any case, when that’s simply wrong.

I don’t think you even read or responded to my post at all. You’re all over the place and make no sense.

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

I still haven’t seen harassment of a dev.

I am not saying that all of the criticism of the handling of the pre-purchase announcements has been civil, but that is no more a harassment of an employee than would be a sign saying Exxon sucks after a preventable oilspill.

quote some from various posts
1) “The marketing department for Anet should be fired. No reprimand, no unpaid leave… Clean out your desk by the end of business hours.”

2) How about GaileGray being downvoted into oblivion to the point her account has now negative karma on reddit? and btw thats for posting this “Hey all. As I mentioned on another thread, we are really happy to be launching pre-purchase of Heart of Thorns! We just want to let you know that $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it. FYI: There won’t be any other HoT editions, just so you know.”

Reddit rules are clear you only downvote when posts arent related to the subject at hands not because you dont like what one is saying hence the down voting is clearly retaliatory which is harassment.

3) name calling is also considered harrasment and I dont know how you managed to miss the sea of that going on right now. Plenty of examples in this thread itself.

Numbering mine to aid in response.

1) Not harassment.

2) Not harassment but, if your description of reddit rules is correct, certainly actionable by the reddit staff.

3) For example ?

2. I really think you need to brush up on the definition of harassment. In a nutshell it is behavior that makes one feel distressed, humiliated or threatened. Being called incompetent and that you should be fired actually manages to hit all three at once.

as for 2. what reason was she down voted as not as an attempt to cause her distress?

3. seriously? fine “immoral and shameless people”

more importantly who cares about reddit?

Savior.5783:

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

I still haven’t seen harassment of a dev.

I am not saying that all of the criticism of the handling of the pre-purchase announcements has been civil, but that is no more a harassment of an employee than would be a sign saying Exxon sucks after a preventable oilspill.

quote some from various posts
“The marketing department for Anet should be fired. No reprimand, no unpaid leave… Clean out your desk by the end of business hours.”

How about GaileGray being downvoted into oblivion to the point her account has now negative karma on reddit? and btw thats for posting this “Hey all. As I mentioned on another thread, we are really happy to be launching pre-purchase of Heart of Thorns! We just want to let you know that $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it. FYI: There won’t be any other HoT editions, just so you know.”

Reddit rules are clear you only downvote when posts arent related to the subject at hands not because you dont like what one is saying hence the down voting is clearly retaliatory which is harassment.

name calling is also considered harrasment and I dont know how you managed to miss the sea of that going on right now. Plenty of examples in this thread itself.

So downvoting comments on a website called reddit is harassment?

Lmao

Back then harassment used to mean being thrown garbage at, being ridiculed, continually abused and disrespected, and treated like trash for no good reason. I didn’t know having a red thumbs down is a part of that definition now. How respectful towards people that have faced actual harassment in their lives. Harassment is something perpetual.

no down voting comments is not harassment, down voting as a form of an attack is yes.

as with everything else there are degrees of severity.

sorrychief.2563:

more importantly who cares about reddit?

Employees who use it as part of their job?

How can people compare price with value of they haven’t played the expansion, that makes zero sense.

Oxidia.8103:

How can people compare price with value of they haven’t played the expansion, that makes zero sense.

We haven’t even heard about half of the specializations, and the rest of the Rev.

The uproar over prepurchase has bee over the top.

My god when I went to by my Ultimate I looked at the “includes core game” thing and was like “wow, that’s a great deal for newbies. It should help bring more people into the game easily” and went on my way with my purchase. It did not even cross my mind that I as a veteran was being “cheated” or disrespected or anything else. Then I go on reddit and the forums here and see all the pitchforks out.

The 10% ascended change (which is thankfully not happening after all) upset me far more than this. Hopefully, the devs don’t let things get them too down.

Regardless of whether you like those opinions or not, they are entitled to their speech. It is within your control to not dwell in it. Don’t like it? close the browser, or read another thread. Why do you feel to need to stare at those threads all days, days and night thinking about it and demands people to be punished? If Anet disagrees with any of the accusations and have a good reason of their own, they can simply ignore it and move on. Personally I don’t see anything harrassments or illegal here. What more, it’s a different forum outside of Anet’s jurisdiction, people can say w/e they want. And yes, you have the right to disagree too. But demanding Anet to do something about it? HAh! aint you a member of justice league.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

I still haven’t seen harassment of a dev.

I am not saying that all of the criticism of the handling of the pre-purchase announcements has been civil, but that is no more a harassment of an employee than would be a sign saying Exxon sucks after a preventable oilspill.

quote some from various posts
1) “The marketing department for Anet should be fired. No reprimand, no unpaid leave… Clean out your desk by the end of business hours.”

2) How about GaileGray being downvoted into oblivion to the point her account has now negative karma on reddit? and btw thats for posting this “Hey all. As I mentioned on another thread, we are really happy to be launching pre-purchase of Heart of Thorns! We just want to let you know that $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it. FYI: There won’t be any other HoT editions, just so you know.”

Reddit rules are clear you only downvote when posts arent related to the subject at hands not because you dont like what one is saying hence the down voting is clearly retaliatory which is harassment.

3) name calling is also considered harrasment and I dont know how you managed to miss the sea of that going on right now. Plenty of examples in this thread itself.

Numbering mine to aid in response.

1) Not harassment.

2) Not harassment but, if your description of reddit rules is correct, certainly actionable by the reddit staff.

3) For example ?

2. I really think you need to brush up on the definition of harassment. In a nutshell it is behavior that makes one feel distressed, humiliated or threatened. Being called incompetent and that you should be fired actually manages to hit all three at once.

as for 2. what reason was she down voted as not as an attempt to cause her distress?

3. seriously? fine “immoral and shameless people”

2) I train classes in harassment avoidance as part of my job. I can assure you that saying someone should be fired is not harassment. Nice moving the goalpost though. This point, as quoted, has no reference to calling someone incompetent.

You implied that she was downvoted because people disagreed with what she said. not harassment.

3) The individual who used those words has clarified that he was referring to non Anet employees who were defending Anet. No devs were harassed if they were not the target of the comment. Even if they were, a single comment does not constitute harassment.

forum bug ?