Guild Wars 2

I’ve stumbled upon at least 10 different versions of the same issue on the forums. Berserker gear being the best gear for PvE and no other stats being viable at all. I’ve also stumbled onto some posts that basically said, “If you’re not a full berserker, you’re hurting your team and ruining the game for others”. What kind of thinking is that in an mmorpg?

An mmorpg is just that…. an rpg. When you pretty much have no choice in what gear you use, isn’t that taking away your freedom and the “rpg” part of an mmorpg? I play a tanky, support guardian, and I’ve had people kick me from parties, tell me to go full berserker or quit, and insult me not only in-game but on the forums as well. That thinking is so wrong that I could almost cry about it. Maybe berserker isn’t my playstyle and I want to support others with buffs. Shouldn’t I have that option?

I have also heard players say that I should “adapt” to whatever the current situation demands. That is also the worst argument I’ve ever heard. If your current build is lacking, you should adapt to a better version of that build, not adapt to using a completely different build that you hate using.

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what. I may continue to get kicked out of parties, but I will report each and every one of the people that vote to kick me, because this thinking is utterly wrong and is harmful for an mmo. I encourage every single player that does not use berserker gear to do the same. Report any players that kick you from parties because of your build, insult you, or demand that you use berserker gear.

I read all the posts too, and some are a bit ridiculous i know, but there’s a reason people spam this zerk stuff in every thread. The reason is because they don’t conceptualize the game design as a whole, they only see it from 1 point of view, theirs.

What these people don’t realize is that we know Berserker gear pulls THE BEST damage in the game, u only have to look at the stats and see Power/Prec/Condamage ok that’s the best damage. Maybe they do realize it, but just what they write on the forums doesn’t reflect that.

What they write is ‘Berserker is the best gear’, but what is ‘the best’, best at damage? Yes, we know that from the stats, it doesn’t need to be told. But then some of them forget that with no defense you need to know/evade nearly every boss attack if not all of them without fail, without lag, and you will probably need a group full of other zerks as well to kill the boss before their health drops to 0.

These are some daunting requirements for a game claimed as a ‘Casual Action MMO’. So what we have in the forums is a lot of posts with players saying ‘Berserker is the best gear’, and what happens is all the readers who don’t know any better go off and buy full zerk and hop into a dungeon.

What we then end up with, and this is from personal experience as well, is dungeon run after dungeon run of zerker players on the floor downed because someone in the forum said ‘Berserker is the best gear’.

It needs to be said that Berserker is not the best gear for anyone who is not equipped with the knowledge and skills required to use it in an array of pugs for whichever dungeon they are running.

Only then will new players reading our forums realize that the balance between damage and defense is a personal preference in a non-organized dungeon environment.

I’m with you, OP.

I mean, sure I have berserker trinkets (who doesn’t like a little more punch on occasion?) but I mainly play a support role. It’s how my mind works “Oh kitten, he’s gonna die… help him!” Yeah, that’s me. The idiot that tends to leap in to help, regardless of her own safety (which is why my GW1 monk didn’t make survivor….).

I’m tired of being told “Well you can still play support in berserker gear.” Sure, I can, but its not as effective. How do I know? I’ve seen myself do it, that’s how I know. That small dose of extra hp for an area heal can be the difference between keeping someone on their feet long enough for them to use their self-heal (thus keeping them in the fight), or trying to get them off the ground which can be an absolute kitten, depending on the situation (and pulling not 1, but 2 people out of the fight for at least a small period of time). That ‘small bump’ in the ability to heal or protect has made a wipe vs non-wipe difference in dungeons for me.

I know, someone going to say something along the lines of ‘you must completely suck then’ but you know what, I’d rather play with those ‘sucky people’ and have fun than people with the ‘zerker or gtfo’ attitudes.

Edit: I should probably clarify waaaaaay back here, that I have no intent on reporting someone for simply wearing zerker armor. just lol. Now, if they’re being a kitten to me…whole different ball game.

^ how much more heal do you do? How much damage do you sacrifice?

It’s mostly because of two things:

Damage reduction can be achieved through skill (avoiding AoE, rolling)
Healing power has terrible terrible returns for the commitment.

That’s why Zerk gear is best. The stat return, considering that it’s a quadratic return (More crit, AND more crit damage!) is the reason it is far and above better than any other gear.

I get that you don’t wanna follow the norm, and that’s very hipster of you, but don’t try to deny the reality of the system engine.

Take a shout Warrior for example, having 1400 healing power (which is a pretty huge commitment) gives you a total of the equivalent of 140hp/sec assuming you are using 3 shouts on CD every time. Yes you get a bonus to your heal skills (.05 from signet!) and regen (.125!) but it’s just not enough of a return!

Also remember that: A dead boss does no damage, the faster you kill it the less it’ll have time to kill your party.

People in ’zerkers humor me to no end. They provide so many loot bags in WvW.

Galtrix.7369:

I’ve stumbled upon at least 10 different versions of the same issue on the forums. Berserker gear being the best gear for PvE and no other stats being viable at all. I’ve also stumbled onto some posts that basically said, “If you’re not a full berserker, you’re hurting your team and ruining the game for others”. What kind of thinking is that in an mmorpg?

An mmorpg is just that…. an rpg. When you pretty much have no choice in what gear you use, isn’t that taking away your freedom and the “rpg” part of an mmorpg? I play a tanky, support guardian, and I’ve had people kick me from parties, tell me to go full berserker or quit, and insult me not only in-game but on the forums as well. That thinking is so wrong that I could almost cry about it. Maybe berserker isn’t my playstyle and I want to support others with buffs. Shouldn’t I have that option?

I have also heard players say that I should “adapt” to whatever the current situation demands. That is also the worst argument I’ve ever heard. If your current build is lacking, you should adapt to a better version of that build, not adapt to using a completely different build that you hate using.

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what. I may continue to get kicked out of parties, but I will report each and every one of the people that vote to kick me, because this thinking is utterly wrong and is harmful for an mmo. I encourage every single player that does not use berserker gear to do the same. Report any players that kick you from parties because of your build, insult you, or demand that you use berserker gear.

You’re blaming the players when you should be blaming the game design. Here’s why:

Dodge. As long as dodge negates 100% of damage, and as long as damage continues to spike, support will always be second rate. The simple fact of the matter is I can outlast bunker builds in PvE fights simply by out dodging them. To make matters worse, because damage is so spiky to account for dodge being in game, the gap between bunker and zerker is considerably narrow. I’ve run FoTM 48 in both bunker and zerker set ups and can honestly say both go down quickly if I’m not dodging well. The only real difference between the two is one helps kill stuff quickly and the other doesn’t as much.

And that’s why players don’t want bunkers. Support just isn’t necessary in a game where a well-timed dodge makes you wholly invulnerable to an attack. Indeed, players recognize this and want DPS-oriented builds because they recognize that the sooner something is dead, the less chances someone in the party is going to miss a crucial dodge.

My recommendation is stop getting angry at other players about it. You can’t blame people for not wanting to wipe 5-6 times on Lupicus because someone in the party can neither contribute much DPS nor tank Lupi with impunity to make up for the DPS loss. You’re basically asking people to 4-man content and for what? So that you can absorb a couple more hits? It isn’t worthwhile—for you or them.

Frankly I think the design is flawed, but it is what it is. I’ll keep playing as long as I enjoy it or until something better comes along, but this isn’t going to change anytime soon.

Off the top of my head, I couldn’t really tell you. I’d have to go through and look at all the numbers and play with all the math (again), and I really hate math (thus why I ignore it 98% of the time). I know it’s not drastically more healing, but it’s enough to keep my husband alive and anyone that knows that inside joke will understand lol.

Of course, for me its not necessarily all about numbers either. Can I keep my hubby’s sorry kitten on his feet? Yup, more often than not. Are the foes dying? Yup. Did we wipe and have to run all the way back? Nope. Are we having a good time? Yup, and that’s the most important part. (And we aren’t even wearing exotics…)

laokoko.7403:

^ I think people are talking about PVE and dungeon

Ah, yes, those people that scream for nerfing every time something kills them because the obvious problem is that the mobs/boss/etc hits too hard.

There’s no incorrect or correct thinking. There’s people who value speed over anything else, and people who don’t. The first group should always advertise about gear-requirement in their party, the second should avoid the first for the happyness of both.

I myself run with a mix of Knight/Berserker/Soldier because of WvW and because I want to have more room for error, not being a great dungeon-runner. I avoid the speed-runners, and they avoid me, we’re both happy.

Don’t see the reason of reporting someone for kicking you because they want people with specific gear on, nor why go all up-in-arms about the matter.

While it’s unfortunate you’ve taken the hits both here on the forums as well as the kicks in the game, I think what you have to concern yourself with is your own enjoyment of the game and whether or not the gear set you have is a benefit to your char. I’ll freely admit, I’ve got a Zerk warrior because sometimes it’s just fun to go all ballistic. But that’s also the only char I have geared in all Zerk. My necro’s in Carrion, my mesmer and ranger in Valk, and my ele in Rampager. My first engi’s almost 80, and I’ll prolly go Knight’s with her … why? Because I want to … I feel it’s stats work best for that char and how I play. Is the best set, objectively speaking? Not necessarily, but it’s the best for me … and in the end, that’s what matters.

Wolfheart.1938:

There’s no incorrect or correct thinking. There’s people who value speed over anything else, and people who don’t. The first group should always advertise about gear-requirement in their party, the second should avoid the first for the happyness of both.

I myself run with a mix of Knight/Berserker/Soldier because of WvW and because I want to have more room for error, not being a great dungeon-runner. I avoid the speed-runners, and they avoid me, we’re both happy.

Don’t see the reason of reporting someone for kicking you because they want people with specific gear on, nor why go all up-in-arms about the matter.

There’s a difference between the people that enjoy playing that way just because it’s their play style (which is cool, I’m fine with that) and those that feel the need to force it down your throat until you conform.

I’m perfectly fine with people running zerker because they just like to do more damage. That’s their thing. They don’t brag about it, they don’t force it down your throat, they don’t try to tell you it the only way to play. My husband wears mainly zerker gear cause he likes big numbers…wonder if its a guy thing…hmmmm, anyway its the ones that act like religious zealots that bother me. And like those zealots, I have absolutely no qualms about letting them know exactly what my opinion of them is. (No one will eeeever accuse me of being PC lol. There’s a reason I don’t work in any job where I have to interact with customers hehe)

Galtrix.7369:

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what.

I got my thief to 80 and bought all PVT with karma.

Since then, i’ve been getting a lot better with my thief, and have gradually been phasing out my PVT for zerker gear as i get better skilled and take less damage.

I guess my point is, as you get better you will realize you don’t need to rely on your gear to mitigate damage as you learn to better utilitze your other resources (dodging/utilities/etc).

And to your point about everyone insisting on using zerker gear— A zerker sacrifices defenses for increased risk of getting downed, and the more time spent in a fight, the probability of getting downed increases, simply because the more times you dodge, the more likely you are to eventually miss one.

So someone in all zerker gear does best in shorter fights. And the more zerkers in your party, the shorter the fight will be, and the less chance someone misses a dodge and gets downed.

However, if you’re the only zerker in a group full of PVT wearers, the fight will drag on longer and your chance of getting dropped increases significantly.

The only thing i really agree with is that players should adapt. If i realize i’m the only person with zerker gear in my group i just throw on my WvW PVT gear and use the bathroom beforehand cuz i know it will be a long run

The problem isn’t zerker, it’s that DPS far outshines Support and CC, FAR OUTSHINES to the point that it is very feasible and at times desirable to have full and hard DPS instead of a more “balanced” party.
The problem is that DPS is the best role and that zerker is the best trait set for it.
—-
Also what’s stated above, the best “support” for a bunch of glass builds is more glass builds nuking things. Unless it’s particularly easy or gimmicky content a support doing little damage only hurts the group by unintentionally extending the fight and thus actually increasing their vulnerability.

People have become interested in my build (especially within my guilds) just due to its nature since the new dungeon. Zerker builds are great and all but in situations such as the new TA dungeon a full zerker person is going to go down and die really fast just cause there is too much damage to avoid. My build focuses on survivability with damage.

Laughing at Ahlen’s post just cause how much damage do you do while your downed for half the fight? Not all damage can be avoided and your going to take some no matter what. If the enemy has a large hp pool but unavoidable damage (which does exist) my build has a lot higher chance of success compared to a zerker build.

I cant also tell you how many times i seen a zerker 1 shotted by mossman. Hard to dodge an attack that you never knew was coming.

Same goes in WvW I literally watch zerker warriors get melted by a thief over and over. That same thief came after me and I literally shrugged off all the damage and went on my business. If I wanted to waste my time trying to fight a thief I could kill it without even a fear of losing.

So far anyone that has tried my build (which isn’t many at this moment I will admit that) has noticed its capacity to withstand large damage for long periods of time while still dealing a decent amount of damage. Balance must be reached rather than a strong focus on one. Focusing makes you stronger in that one instance but at the cost of others. Zerker sacrifices so much survivability that it loses its ability to be useful to most groups and become a hinder. I can’t tell you how many times I have had to rez people in zerker gear. Its becoming a sad epidemic.

Hell if you want to 1v1 in SPvP your zerker build against mine I am willing. Or if your vsing FA server you can find me in WvW and face me there.

I will admit that my build is not without flaws but i know its flaws and will try to work on compensating for its lose.

edit: I have never been kicked out of a group for my gear. People usually ask about my build just due to the nature of what occurs in dungeons (I get focused and the group turns into just keep me up and its a win)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Wolfheart.1938:

There’s no incorrect or correct thinking. There’s people who value speed over anything else, and people who don’t. The first group should always advertise about gear-requirement in their party, the second should avoid the first for the happyness of both.

I myself run with a mix of Knight/Berserker/Soldier because of WvW and because I want to have more room for error, not being a great dungeon-runner. I avoid the speed-runners, and they avoid me, we’re both happy.

Don’t see the reason of reporting someone for kicking you because they want people with specific gear on, nor why go all up-in-arms about the matter.

There’s a difference between the people that enjoy playing that way just because it’s their play style (which is cool, I’m fine with that) and those that feel the need to force it down your throat until you conform.

I’m perfectly fine with people running zerker because they just like to do more damage. That’s their thing. They don’t brag about it, they don’t force it down your throat, they don’t try to tell you it the only way to play. My husband wears mainly zerker gear cause he likes big numbers…wonder if its a guy thing…hmmmm, anyway its the ones that act like religious zealots that bother me. And like those zealots, I have absolutely no qualms about letting them know exactly what my opinion of them is. (No one will eeeever accuse me of being PC lol. There’s a reason I don’t work in any job where I have to interact with customers hehe)

The thing is, while I enjoy variety in my playstyle and don’t mind “wasting” 3 minutes more because someone is full cleric, berserker IS the best dungeon gear provided some premises: players have good reflexes, know the dungeon and are generally skilled.

Since that is not always the case, I (and other reasonable players I’m sure) like to have some sort of safety net with support-oriented or tanky builds in case something goes wrong.

So in the end, is Berserker the superior choice of equipment for proficient and very skilled dungeon clearing? YES. Should everyone who ever steps into a dungeon wear it and only it? NO. Is kicking poor Galtrix for his gear choice reasonable? No, unless the run was advertised as a berserker-only one. I mean I can understand insulting, I would’ve done that regardless of build, but kicking!…

P.s.
I do love me some big, juicy numbers. Just watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CZ5Z8ISNEA makes me go “WANT DAT”

P.p.s. man that suddenflame guy must be like a genius-god, or just think of himself too highly. I really wonder what’s the correct choice.

Wolfheart.1938:

The thing is, while I enjoy variety in my playstyle and don’t mind “wasting” 3 minutes more because someone is full cleric, berserker IS the best dungeon gear provided some premises: players have good reflexes, know the dungeon and are generally skilled.

Since that is not always the case, I (and other reasonable players I’m sure) like to have some sort of safety net with support-oriented or tanky builds in case something goes wrong.

So in the end, is Berserker the superior choice of equipment for proficient and very skilled dungeon clearing? YES. Should everyone who ever steps into a dungeon wear it and only it? NO.

Ah but see the difference between the person the OP (and I) was talking about and you (and those like you) is that you aren’t knocking on my door asking “Have you been saved today?”

P.s.
I do love me some big, juicy numbers. Just watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CZ5Z8ISNEA makes me go “WANT DAT”

I knew it was a male thing!

P.p.s. man that suddenflame guy must be like a genius-god

Now that requires me to go actually read (not just skim) his post. Where’d I put my aleve?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I knew it was a male thing!

Makes sense, supporting in my (very little) experience is a female thing! (inb4 males that play support builds jump on me, I’m not being too serious)

Wolfheart.1938:

P.p.s. man that suddenflame guy must be like a genius-god, or just think of himself too highly. I really wonder what’s the correct choice.

I am not a god and nor do I think highly of myself. As I pointed out in my post that it is not without flaws nor is it being used by many people. I have thou seen a lot of zerkers and been in many, many groups without being kicked once. People do ask about my build often usually 1 or 2 people per group. The new TA path really brings out my build thou as each run I have done has never failed and all bosses and minions focus me so far. Its not an aspect of being god but knowing and adapting to the situations around you to minimize damage to you and your party. If I die in a dungeon I always hope to make it a good reason rather than a stupid one. It usually involves trying to ensure my team lives.

Suddenflame is an internet veteran, my weak attempts at flaming him were easily swept aside! +1 for you sir!

Now to get back on topic, I do think that this berserker mentality is largely due to most dungeon paths being too easy to faceroll through even for not-so-great players. Luckily, Arenanet has seen the problem and has been releasing content (like the last 3 dungeons) that aren’t as berserker-friendly as others.

Thing is, making support or tanking oriented builds more welcomed while keeping them not required is a really difficult design challenge.

Suddenflame.2601:

People have become interested in my build (especially within my guilds) just due to its nature since the new dungeon. Zerker builds are great and all but in situations such as the new TA dungeon a full zerker person is going to go down and die really fast just cause there is too much damage to avoid. My build focuses on survivability with damage.

Laughing at Ahlen’s post just cause how much damage do you do while your downed for half the fight? Not all damage can be avoided and your going to take some no matter what. If the enemy has a large hp pool but unavoidable damage (which does exist) my build has a lot higher chance of success compared to a zerker build.

I cant also tell you how many times i seen a zerker 1 shotted by mossman. Hard to dodge an attack that you never knew was coming.

Same goes in WvW I literally watch zerker warriors get melted by a thief over and over. That same thief came after me and I literally shrugged off all the damage and went on my business. If I wanted to waste my time trying to fight a thief I could kill it without even a fear of losing.

So far anyone that has tried my build (which isn’t many at this moment I will admit that) has noticed its capacity to withstand large damage for long periods of time while still dealing a decent amount of damage. Balance must be reached rather than a strong focus on one. Focusing makes you stronger in that one instance but at the cost of others. Zerker sacrifices so much survivability that it loses its ability to be useful to most groups and become a hinder. I can’t tell you how many times I have had to rez people in zerker gear. Its becoming a sad epidemic.

Hell if you want to 1v1 in SPvP your zerker build against mine I am willing. Or if your vsing FA server you can find me in WvW and face me there.

I will admit that my build is not without flaws but i know its flaws and will try to work on compensating for its lose.

edit: I have never been kicked out of a group for my gear. People usually ask about my build just due to the nature of what occurs in dungeons (I get focused and the group turns into just keep me up and its a win)

Mossman is 100% avoidable if you’re paying attention, just like pretty much every other encounter in the game.

Wolfheart.1938:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I knew it was a male thing!

Makes sense, supporting in my (very little) experience is a female thing! (inb4 males that play support builds jump on me, I’m not being too serious)

Lol actually that is an accurate statement. Generally speaking, support is more of a female role, while damage is more of a male role. Simply due to basic human nature. Although, you do find exceptions to every ‘rule’ (which is why male nurses exist for example). I was just poking fun originally, hehe.

I agree with Wolfheart in the sense that people with different thinking should avoid each other. If you’re a zerker build and you’d like to run with like kind, make sure your LFG post says so. If you’re a support build, make sure your post says something like “Anyone welcome” or “not looking to speedrun”.

If you are not starting the party and are instead joining a party, you should be willing to adjust your build/playstyle to meet what the party wants. And if you are unable to, then save everyone some heartache by saying something like, “Sorry guys, I don’t think it’s gonna work out, I’m not specced like how you guys want.” And then just leave and find a new party.

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

Galtrix.7369:

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what. I may continue to get kicked out of parties, but I will report each and every one of the people that vote to kick me, because this thinking is utterly wrong and is harmful for an mmo. I encourage every single player that does not use berserker gear to do the same. Report any players that kick you from parties because of your build, insult you, or demand that you use berserker gear.

This is an abuse to the reporting tool. You will be banned if you abuse that system.

Quit being spiteful. It is not against the rules to kick people because you don’t want to play with them.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Wolfheart.1938:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I knew it was a male thing!

Makes sense, supporting in my (very little) experience is a female thing! (inb4 males that play support builds jump on me, I’m not being too serious)

Lol actually that is an accurate statement. Generally speaking, support is more of a female role, while damage is more of a male role. Simply due to basic human nature. Although, you do find exceptions to every ‘rule’ (which is why male nurses exist for example). I was just poking fun originally, hehe.

It’s funny because I see a lot of women say they like support classes. I loathe them, but my husband enjoys playing support. I just want to shoot at/stab things until they die.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Wolfheart.1938:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I knew it was a male thing!

Makes sense, supporting in my (very little) experience is a female thing! (inb4 males that play support builds jump on me, I’m not being too serious)

Lol actually that is an accurate statement. Generally speaking, support is more of a female role, while damage is more of a male role. Simply due to basic human nature. Although, you do find exceptions to every ‘rule’ (which is why male nurses exist for example). I was just poking fun originally, hehe.

what kind of bullkitten kitten kittenin 1950s Mad Men kitten garbage is this

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Wolfheart.1938:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I knew it was a male thing!

Makes sense, supporting in my (very little) experience is a female thing! (inb4 males that play support builds jump on me, I’m not being too serious)

Lol actually that is an accurate statement. Generally speaking, support is more of a female role, while damage is more of a male role. Simply due to basic human nature. Although, you do find exceptions to every ‘rule’ (which is why male nurses exist for example). I was just poking fun originally, hehe.

This post is actually quite offensive, so let’s limit the discussion to the game and stay away from potentially incendiary topics like gender, evolution, etc.

Broadicea.8294:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Wolfheart.1938:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I knew it was a male thing!

Makes sense, supporting in my (very little) experience is a female thing! (inb4 males that play support builds jump on me, I’m not being too serious)

Lol actually that is an accurate statement. Generally speaking, support is more of a female role, while damage is more of a male role. Simply due to basic human nature. Although, you do find exceptions to every ‘rule’ (which is why male nurses exist for example). I was just poking fun originally, hehe.

what kind of bullkitten kitten kittenin 1950s Mad Men kitten garbage is this

I usually play healers (TRINITY!) and my fiancee usually plays warriors, does that mean she wears the pants?

With out even having to address your point, which I don’t agree with, there may be a problem with your thinking.

As far as I know you can not actually see which party member started the vote or which party member seconded the vote.

This would force you to report every member of your group. So you’ll be reporting innocent party members also. Assuming you don’t have a problem with this, the dev support team with quickly identify your reports as false ones.

If false reporting isn’t a bannable offense, they will simply begin to ignore your reports altogether. They may not even tell you they are doing this. Soon enough you’ll only be wasting your time. You will also put yourself in a ‘Boy who cried wolf’ situation where if you end up needing to report someone for a legit offense, your report may be ignoreed due to your history of false reporting.

When I ask for zerk party only I expect everyone to be wearing zerk, don’t come with your shout heal warrior and wonder why you got kicked? if you want to make a “tanky support” party only then go for it, I play with whoever I want, I don’t say no to any class, just no to certain gear that I find almost useless, and whilst you may have a lot of spare time to finish I have less time and need to finish as much dungeons, thus I have to do dungeons faster.

Ethics.4519:

I usually play healers (TRINITY!) and my fiancee usually plays warriors, does that mean she wears the pants?

Contrary to popular belief, warrior doesn’t necessarily mean high dps.

When every boss you met in dungeons would one-hit-kill you, berserker is the only way to go. I am sorry to say.

Those that disagrees hasn’t been to Fractal level 45+.

I don’t use berserker btw. I use apothecary because like OP I enjoy tanking and surviving. Necro is meant to be an attrition class, so I am designing my build around that idea. Its the game design that’s failing players like me and OP. Not our problem.

Its the game design that forces everyone to use berserker in dungeons. So no I don’t blame berserker users neither. They just take the most efficient way out.

Bismuth.3165:

Ethics.4519:

I usually play healers (TRINITY!) and my fiancee usually plays warriors, does that mean she wears the pants?

Contrary to popular belief, warrior doesn’t necessarily mean high dps.

Contrary to popular belief, I actually do wear pants. I make her go high dps. No sympathy!

VOLKON.1290:

People in ’zerkers humor me to no end. They provide so many loot bags in WvW.

In WvW we don’t have this problem, because there is no one-hit-kill in WvW.

Future world events should model after WvW, for obvious reasons.

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I disagree. Zerker is definitely the norm in all of those dungeons you listed, including FoTM 48 which is more dangerous than any of the others. Now if you’re talking about PUGs, then there’s likely no rhyme or reason to what builds/gear people are using anyway.

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

I think OP was actually describing his first post with the subject.

CHIPS.6018:

When every boss you met in dungeons would one-hit-kill you, berserker is the only way to go. I am sorry to say.

Those that disagrees hasn’t been to Fractal level 45+.

I don’t use berserker btw. I use apothecary because like OP I enjoy tanking and surviving. Necro is meant to be an attrition class, so I am designing my build around that idea. Its the game design that’s failing me.

Its the game design that forces everyone to use berserker in dungeons.

Name all the bosses that have 1 hit kills.

AC: Has 1 boss only with 1 hit kill. Rumbus
CM: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
COE: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
TA: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
Im starting to see a trend here…. If your wearing zerker then yes there is bosses with 1 hit kills but if your actually wearing survivability many of those 1 hit kills can be absorbed. I’m a not saying their attacks don’t hurt, but won’t down you instantly either.

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

Most people I play with regularly are the same: We rock Zerker 100% of the time. Why waste DPS mitigating damage when you can avoid it completely with dodge?

The people in this thread praising non-Zerker gear have it backwards. Your gear isn’t making you better, it’s capping your potential.

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

I did an AC run in 12mins with a none zerker group. If your group knows what it is doing is what makes the difference from what I seen. Whats the fastest time a zerker group has done AC path 1?

Suddenflame.2601:

CHIPS.6018:

When every boss you met in dungeons would one-hit-kill you, berserker is the only way to go. I am sorry to say.

Those that disagrees hasn’t been to Fractal level 45+.

I don’t use berserker btw. I use apothecary because like OP I enjoy tanking and surviving. Necro is meant to be an attrition class, so I am designing my build around that idea. Its the game design that’s failing me.

Its the game design that forces everyone to use berserker in dungeons.

Name all the bosses that have 1 hit kills.

AC: Has 1 boss only with 1 hit kill. Rumbus
CM: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
COE: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
TA: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
Im starting to see a trend here…. If your wearing zerker then yes there is bosses with 1 hit kills but if your actually wearing survivability many of those 1 hit kills can be absorbed. I’m a not saying their attacks don’t hurt, but won’t down you instantly either.

None of those bosses will 1-hit a zerker. And that’s coming from someone who runs zerker exclusively in PvE.

Kilandros.2098:

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

Most people I play with regularly are the same: We rock Zerker 100% of the time. Why waste DPS mitigating damage when you can avoid it completely with dodge?

The people in this thread praising non-Zerker gear have it backwards. Your gear isn’t making you better, it’s capping your potential.

You can migrate some damage with dodge but you can not dodge it all. If you can great considering that means your kiting a lot.

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

CHIPS.6018:

When every boss you met in dungeons would one-hit-kill you, berserker is the only way to go. I am sorry to say.

Those that disagrees hasn’t been to Fractal level 45+.

I don’t use berserker btw. I use apothecary because like OP I enjoy tanking and surviving. Necro is meant to be an attrition class, so I am designing my build around that idea. Its the game design that’s failing me.

Its the game design that forces everyone to use berserker in dungeons.

Name all the bosses that have 1 hit kills.

AC: Has 1 boss only with 1 hit kill. Rumbus
CM: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
COE: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
TA: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
Im starting to see a trend here…. If your wearing zerker then yes there is bosses with 1 hit kills but if your actually wearing survivability many of those 1 hit kills can be absorbed. I’m a not saying their attacks don’t hurt, but won’t down you instantly either.

None of those bosses will 1-hit a zerker. And that’s coming from someone who runs zerker exclusively in PvE.

I made 2 points there basically. THere isnt any 1 shot kill bosses in dungeons expect Rumbus (only if you be stupid and stand where his stones fall)

I think everyone can wear zerk without even losing any hp if all the party members were experienced and did what is expected of their class in each individual situation.

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

Most people I play with regularly are the same: We rock Zerker 100% of the time. Why waste DPS mitigating damage when you can avoid it completely with dodge?

The people in this thread praising non-Zerker gear have it backwards. Your gear isn’t making you better, it’s capping your potential.

You can migrate some damage with dodge but you can not dodge it all. If you can great considering that means your kiting a lot.

This is so mistaken it’s not even funny. With the exception of Agony at Jade Maw, every single serious damage encounter can be avoided. Not mitigated, avoided. The small damage isn’t what troubles me, and it isn’t what downs most people, it’s the big spike damage which, as I’ve said repeatedly in this thread, can be avoided 100% of the time.

But here’s where it gets interesting: That big spike damage I’m talking about, well, it tends to down bunkers and zerkers alike. Let’s analyze, for example, the Legendary Wraithlord Crusher in P3 in Arah. Have you ever seen a bunker tank his spike damage? The answer is no. No amount of healing/toughness/health/armor currently available in the game will mitigate that damage. The only way to avoid it is to dodge.

And that encounter isn’t unique. Now I’m not saying that the game design is right. But I am calling it for what it is.

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

I did an AC run in 12mins with a none zerker group. If your group knows what it is doing is what makes the difference from what I seen. Whats the fastest time a zerker group has done AC path 1?

Call me a skeptic, but waiting on NPCs and things to spawn alone makes this path longer than 12 minutes.

Suddenflame.2601:

People have become interested in my build (especially within my guilds) just due to its nature since the new dungeon. Zerker builds are great and all but in situations such as the new TA dungeon a full zerker person is going to go down and die really fast just cause there is too much damage to avoid. My build focuses on survivability with damage.

Nice “fix”, ANet. Lets just fill the area with damage to negate the utility of dodge completely.

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

Most people I play with regularly are the same: We rock Zerker 100% of the time. Why waste DPS mitigating damage when you can avoid it completely with dodge?

The people in this thread praising non-Zerker gear have it backwards. Your gear isn’t making you better, it’s capping your potential.

You can migrate some damage with dodge but you can not dodge it all. If you can great considering that means your kiting a lot.

This is so mistaken it’s not even funny. With the exception of Agony at Jade Maw, every single serious damage encounter can be avoided. Not mitigated, avoided. The small damage isn’t what troubles me, and it isn’t what downs most people, it’s the big spike damage which, as I’ve said repeatedly in this thread, can be avoided 100% of the time.

But here’s where it gets interesting: That big spike damage I’m talking about, well, it tends to down bunkers and zerkers alike. Let’s analyze, for example, the Legendary Wraithlord Crusher in P3 in Arah. Have you ever seen a bunker tank his spike damage? The answer is no. No amount of healing/toughness/health/armor currently available in the game will mitigate that damage. The only way to avoid it is to dodge.

And that encounter isn’t unique. Now I’m not saying that the game design is right. But I am calling it for what it is.

Everyone (should at least) dodges the spike damage but constant damage is what downs people the most. Such as why do you think the Zhaitan Thrall has downed the most people? It has very minimal spike damage but high constant damage. There also happens to be a lot of them. Dredge people hate to fight not cause they have super spike damage but because they have great constant damage. Pretty much every monster people hate to fight either has CC or constant damage.