Guild Wars 2

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

CHIPS.6018:

When every boss you met in dungeons would one-hit-kill you, berserker is the only way to go. I am sorry to say.

Those that disagrees hasn’t been to Fractal level 45+.

I don’t use berserker btw. I use apothecary because like OP I enjoy tanking and surviving. Necro is meant to be an attrition class, so I am designing my build around that idea. Its the game design that’s failing me.

Its the game design that forces everyone to use berserker in dungeons.

Name all the bosses that have 1 hit kills.

AC: Has 1 boss only with 1 hit kill. Rumbus
CM: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
COE: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
TA: 0 bosses with 1 hit kills
Im starting to see a trend here…. If your wearing zerker then yes there is bosses with 1 hit kills but if your actually wearing survivability many of those 1 hit kills can be absorbed. I’m a not saying their attacks don’t hurt, but won’t down you instantly either.

None of those bosses will 1-hit a zerker. And that’s coming from someone who runs zerker exclusively in PvE.

I made 2 points there basically. THere isnt any 1 shot kill bosses in dungeons expect Rumbus (only if you be stupid and stand where his stones fall)

Crusher in Arah p3. Lupicus swipe/kick/AoE will one shot most classes other than warriors. Scrufflebutt in fractals, Rabsovich in fractals, Dredge mining suit and ice elemental in fractals. Mossman in fractals. A lot of these are dependant on class/gear/fractal level.

But yea, this still isn’t many things that will one hit you.

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

I did an AC run in 12mins with a none zerker group. If your group knows what it is doing is what makes the difference from what I seen. Whats the fastest time a zerker group has done AC path 1?

Call me a skeptic, but waiting on NPCs and things to spawn alone makes this path longer than 12 minutes.

The NPCs at the start take so much time but that is a constant. Such as old vids of AC path 1 have done it in 10mins and nothing expect the end boss has changed if anything made it easier since his screech doesn’t instantly down you any more.

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

Most people I play with regularly are the same: We rock Zerker 100% of the time. Why waste DPS mitigating damage when you can avoid it completely with dodge?

The people in this thread praising non-Zerker gear have it backwards. Your gear isn’t making you better, it’s capping your potential.

You can migrate some damage with dodge but you can not dodge it all. If you can great considering that means your kiting a lot.

This is so mistaken it’s not even funny. With the exception of Agony at Jade Maw, every single serious damage encounter can be avoided. Not mitigated, avoided. The small damage isn’t what troubles me, and it isn’t what downs most people, it’s the big spike damage which, as I’ve said repeatedly in this thread, can be avoided 100% of the time.

But here’s where it gets interesting: That big spike damage I’m talking about, well, it tends to down bunkers and zerkers alike. Let’s analyze, for example, the Legendary Wraithlord Crusher in P3 in Arah. Have you ever seen a bunker tank his spike damage? The answer is no. No amount of healing/toughness/health/armor currently available in the game will mitigate that damage. The only way to avoid it is to dodge.

And that encounter isn’t unique. Now I’m not saying that the game design is right. But I am calling it for what it is.

Everyone (should at least) dodges the spike damage but constant damage is what downs people the most. Such as why do you think the Zhaitan Thrall has downed the most people? It has very minimal spike damage but high constant damage. There also happens to be a lot of them. Dredge people hate to fight not cause they have super spike damage but because they have great constant damage. Pretty much every monster people hate to fight either has CC or constant damage.

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

This boils down to almost a non issue. The people that want to speedrun found an optimal system gear, assuming specific conditions and so focus on it. Both in and out of speedruns. That’s fine, we can all agree they’re allowed their build.
The assumption that it be REQUIRED is wrong however and some basic agreements might make it entirely more enjoyable an experience for everyone:

1) If you don’t specify what you want out of a group in the LFG panel, you are completely at fault when Non zerker or non speed runners join. That is your fault for assuming. (And specify both. Its possible there’s zerkers who don’t like to speed run.)

2) If all you can find are speed run/zerker only groups; make a new one. Just post up “non-speed run, fun run, any build” or something similar. You’ll fill in about a second. Because obviously there’s plenty of people who enjoy variant gears and they’ll be right there. And, zerkers, if you join such a group and then complain about builds you’re being purposely annoying.

3) The variant of above. If a lfg says “zerker, speed run” or simliar and you don’t meet those requirements? Don’t join. That’s obviously a highly focused, probably rather driven group and you won’t have fun with them if you’re not.

4) No one shove their build and gear choice down others throats. Its insulting regardless of what party does it.

5) zerker gear is not required to clear content. Hence it is not required. Anyone treating it like it is the only possible gear worth using is assuming a lot and can be ignored. It might be optimal for speedruns, but might not be optimal for individuals. That doesn’t make you superior, just differently focused in this same game.

6) For the love of the Khan Ur, be polite with one another. If you can’t come to an agreement, walk away from one another. None of this is worth losing life over. And that’s what stress does. Cuts off your max years of life.

Galtrix.7369:

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what. I may continue to get kicked out of parties, but I will report each and every one of the people that vote to kick me, because this thinking is utterly wrong and is harmful for an mmo. I encourage every single player that does not use berserker gear to do the same. Report any players that kick you from parties because of your build, insult you, or demand that you use berserker gear.

This is an abuse to the reporting tool. You will be banned if you abuse that system.

Quit being spiteful. It is not against the rules to kick people because you don’t want to play with them.

No, it is not abuse. I will be improving the game by reporting those elitists and getting them banned. So far I’ve reported many of those elitists, and guess how many times I’ve been banned/suspended? None.

Kicking people because you don’t like the gear they’re wearing is right up there with racism. It doesn’t belong here, nor does it warrant kicking people from parties. Kicking people because of their gear is not only rude and disrespectful, but it completely ruins the community. Take a look yourself.

Dungeon kicks are akin to racism? I’m reporting your post. Either you’re straight up trolling, or you simply need a break from the forums for awhile.

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

Most people I play with regularly are the same: We rock Zerker 100% of the time. Why waste DPS mitigating damage when you can avoid it completely with dodge?

The people in this thread praising non-Zerker gear have it backwards. Your gear isn’t making you better, it’s capping your potential.

You can migrate some damage with dodge but you can not dodge it all. If you can great considering that means your kiting a lot.

This is so mistaken it’s not even funny. With the exception of Agony at Jade Maw, every single serious damage encounter can be avoided. Not mitigated, avoided. The small damage isn’t what troubles me, and it isn’t what downs most people, it’s the big spike damage which, as I’ve said repeatedly in this thread, can be avoided 100% of the time.

But here’s where it gets interesting: That big spike damage I’m talking about, well, it tends to down bunkers and zerkers alike. Let’s analyze, for example, the Legendary Wraithlord Crusher in P3 in Arah. Have you ever seen a bunker tank his spike damage? The answer is no. No amount of healing/toughness/health/armor currently available in the game will mitigate that damage. The only way to avoid it is to dodge.

And that encounter isn’t unique. Now I’m not saying that the game design is right. But I am calling it for what it is.

Everyone (should at least) dodges the spike damage but constant damage is what downs people the most. Such as why do you think the Zhaitan Thrall has downed the most people? It has very minimal spike damage but high constant damage. There also happens to be a lot of them. Dredge people hate to fight not cause they have super spike damage but because they have great constant damage. Pretty much every monster people hate to fight either has CC or constant damage.

I hate dredge because of their knockback spam. In particular because they can knock us off ledges and walkways while we can’t do so to them. Never mind them being blind immune, removing a solid counter to the knockback (not everyone has stability after all).

As for thralls, i have no issue with them on their own. But when combined with spikers they become near impossible to avoid. The real killer is still the spike, even if the finisher happens to be constant damage. This because the spiker narrows the reaction window to the other damage in a split second.

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what. I may continue to get kicked out of parties, but I will report each and every one of the people that vote to kick me, because this thinking is utterly wrong and is harmful for an mmo. I encourage every single player that does not use berserker gear to do the same. Report any players that kick you from parties because of your build, insult you, or demand that you use berserker gear.

This is an abuse to the reporting tool. You will be banned if you abuse that system.

Quit being spiteful. It is not against the rules to kick people because you don’t want to play with them.

No, it is not abuse. I will be improving the game by reporting those elitists and getting them banned. So far I’ve reported many of those elitists, and guess how many times I’ve been banned/suspended? None.

Kicking people because you don’t like the gear they’re wearing is right up there with racism. It doesn’t belong here, nor does it warrant kicking people from parties. Kicking people because of their gear is not only rude and disrespectful, but it completely ruins the community. Take a look yourself.

Honestly, people like you are ruining this game. You have this attitude that you should be able to do whatever you want, and people should have to put up with it. You’re incredibly entitled. People don’t HAVE to play with other people. I can kick you out of the party if I want. I could not like your name, I could not like your toons race, it DOESN’T MATTER. I don’t have to play with you if I don’t want to.

You’re like a little kid in first grade that goes up to a game of kickball without shoes on. Then the kids say “No, you’re not wearing shoes, we don’t want you on our team” so then you go and tell the teacher the kids are being racist.

I agree, people do not have to play with me. But starting a dungeon with me in their party and then kicking me halfway through because of my gear is reportable. I am not entitled to much of anything. It is an mmorpg and I should be able to play however the hell I want to play. That’s what an mmorpg implies.

If I felt entitled, like you said, I would be kicking literally every single full berserker player that tries to party with me. Do I do that? No. All I want is equality for all types of gear. I do not kick people because of the gear they wear. I simply report the ones that think they’re better than me because they wear different gear.

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

Kilandros.2098:

Galtrix.7369:

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what. I may continue to get kicked out of parties, but I will report each and every one of the people that vote to kick me, because this thinking is utterly wrong and is harmful for an mmo. I encourage every single player that does not use berserker gear to do the same. Report any players that kick you from parties because of your build, insult you, or demand that you use berserker gear.

This is an abuse to the reporting tool. You will be banned if you abuse that system.

Quit being spiteful. It is not against the rules to kick people because you don’t want to play with them.

No, it is not abuse. I will be improving the game by reporting those elitists and getting them banned. So far I’ve reported many of those elitists, and guess how many times I’ve been banned/suspended? None.

Kicking people because you don’t like the gear they’re wearing is right up there with racism. It doesn’t belong here, nor does it warrant kicking people from parties. Kicking people because of their gear is not only rude and disrespectful, but it completely ruins the community. Take a look yourself.

Dungeon kicks are akin to racism? I’m reporting your post. Either you’re straight up trolling, or you simply need a break from the forums for awhile.

My goodness. You may need to grow some thicker skin if that little comparison upset you. And congratulations by the way. That report you already sent in, or are going to send in, is going to do absolutely nothing Welcome to GW2.

Galtrix.7369:

I agree, people do not have to play with me. But starting a dungeon with me in their party and then kicking me halfway through because of my gear is reportable. I am not entitled to much of anything. It is an mmorpg and I should be able to play however the hell I want to play. That’s what an mmorpg implies.

If I felt entitled, like you said, I would be kicking literally every single full berserker player that tries to party with me. Do I do that? No. All I want is equality for all types of gear. I do not kick people because of the gear they wear. I simply report the ones that think they’re better than me because they wear different gear.

Half way through is not against the rules. It takes time for people to realize you have on clerics. My guess is they say zerk only, youjoin the group, then they find out halfway through and kick you.

You DO feel entitled. If others can’t play however they want, then why should you? Quit forcing people to play with your crappy build.

You DO realize you have compared racism to kicked people from parties right? Kick people from parties is the same as brutally enslaving a race of people? Got it.

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

What’s there to prove? This whole thread started because someone was unhappy that so many people demand players use zerker gear. And they aren’t demanding it because it’s worse than the alternative.

It’s incredible that the majority of players find the best and optimal builds. You can challenge me and call me wrong, but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

digiowl.9620:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Ethics.4519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ethics.4519:

The conversations in here are frightening.

You’re going to have to specify what area of the game you are talking about.

WvW: Hell no don’t go zerk. You’re either looking for 1v1s or you just don’t know what you’re doing.

sPvP: Sure, why not.

Dungeons: Hell yes you should be zerk, or working towards it. The dungeons in this game can all be done in full zerker. You should be trying to know the instances good enough to wear as many zerker pieces you can. This is for efficiency. If you don’t care if your dungeon run takes longer, then join other people that don’t care. Most the people running dungeons want it to be quick and efficient.

Healing and tanking is not needed IN DUNGEONS in this game, assuming everybody in your party knows what they are doing. If you feel special becaues you can heal people and take very limit damage, fine, it’s your choice. But it’s also the party’s choice to kick you because they want the dungeon done in 15 minutes instead of 25 minutes.

From what I seen ‘most’ people are not wearing zerkers into dungeons. Only dungeons I seen that want to be fast cleared with zerkers is COF and AC. I haven’t seen a single one saying Speed Clear zerker only for any Arah, SE, or TA. Another thing is zerkers have to work together cause a single mistake can cause a party wipe.

I wear zerker into all dungeons. Everything I do in PvE I wear zerkers.

Speedclear =/= efficient group.

The more zerker you have in the group, the more efficient it will be, if the people in the party know what they are doing.

Just because I might post something in LFG that doesn’t say “speedrun” doesn’t mean I’m okay with it taking an hour instead of 20 minutes. Doesn’t really matter anyway, as I always try to run with my guild. Even then I find a cleric’s guard in my group =(

Most people I play with regularly are the same: We rock Zerker 100% of the time. Why waste DPS mitigating damage when you can avoid it completely with dodge?

The people in this thread praising non-Zerker gear have it backwards. Your gear isn’t making you better, it’s capping your potential.

You can migrate some damage with dodge but you can not dodge it all. If you can great considering that means your kiting a lot.

This is so mistaken it’s not even funny. With the exception of Agony at Jade Maw, every single serious damage encounter can be avoided. Not mitigated, avoided. The small damage isn’t what troubles me, and it isn’t what downs most people, it’s the big spike damage which, as I’ve said repeatedly in this thread, can be avoided 100% of the time.

But here’s where it gets interesting: That big spike damage I’m talking about, well, it tends to down bunkers and zerkers alike. Let’s analyze, for example, the Legendary Wraithlord Crusher in P3 in Arah. Have you ever seen a bunker tank his spike damage? The answer is no. No amount of healing/toughness/health/armor currently available in the game will mitigate that damage. The only way to avoid it is to dodge.

And that encounter isn’t unique. Now I’m not saying that the game design is right. But I am calling it for what it is.

Everyone (should at least) dodges the spike damage but constant damage is what downs people the most. Such as why do you think the Zhaitan Thrall has downed the most people? It has very minimal spike damage but high constant damage. There also happens to be a lot of them. Dredge people hate to fight not cause they have super spike damage but because they have great constant damage. Pretty much every monster people hate to fight either has CC or constant damage.

I hate dredge because of their knockback spam. In particular because they can knock us off ledges and walkways while we can’t do so to them. Never mind them being blind immune, removing a solid counter to the knockback (not everyone has stability after all).

As for thralls, i have no issue with them on their own. But when combined with spikers they become near impossible to avoid. The real killer is still the spike, even if the finisher happens to be constant damage. This because the spiker narrows the reaction window to the other damage in a split second.

I never personally had trouble with spikers cause they are slower and broadcast their moves. Constant damage on the other hand keeps coming at you and at you. Some of the have high constant damage where each hit hurts but its not even their spike (champions usually).

Kilandros.2098:

but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

Tell me about it

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

What’s there to prove? This whole thread started because someone was unhappy that so many people demand players use zerker gear. And they aren’t demanding it because it’s worse than the alternative.

It’s incredible that the majority of players find the best and optimal builds. You can challenge me and call me wrong, but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

What is there to prove you ask? You said I was wrong so prove me wrong rather then just say it without anything to back it with.

Galtrix.7369:

Kilandros.2098:

Galtrix.7369:

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what. I may continue to get kicked out of parties, but I will report each and every one of the people that vote to kick me, because this thinking is utterly wrong and is harmful for an mmo. I encourage every single player that does not use berserker gear to do the same. Report any players that kick you from parties because of your build, insult you, or demand that you use berserker gear.

This is an abuse to the reporting tool. You will be banned if you abuse that system.

Quit being spiteful. It is not against the rules to kick people because you don’t want to play with them.

No, it is not abuse. I will be improving the game by reporting those elitists and getting them banned. So far I’ve reported many of those elitists, and guess how many times I’ve been banned/suspended? None.

Kicking people because you don’t like the gear they’re wearing is right up there with racism. It doesn’t belong here, nor does it warrant kicking people from parties. Kicking people because of their gear is not only rude and disrespectful, but it completely ruins the community. Take a look yourself.

Dungeon kicks are akin to racism? I’m reporting your post. Either you’re straight up trolling, or you simply need a break from the forums for awhile.

My goodness. You may need to grow some thicker skin if that little comparison upset you. And congratulations by the way. That report you already sent in, or are going to send in, is going to do absolutely nothing Welcome to GW2.

You think gear preference is on par with racisum? Nice, not that this thread held any weight before, but you’ve just descredited an possible semblence of validity your opinions held.

And anyone that has ever been a victum of racisum themselves should be offended by your ‘little’ comparison.

See, you’re not the only one that can be dramatic.

Ahlen.7591:

That’s why Zerk gear is best. The stat return, considering that it’s a quadratic return (More crit, AND more crit damage!) is the reason it is far and above better than any other gear.

Critical damage gets worse the more you get.

If you take the first 10% critical damage, that means your critcal hits goes from 150% to 160%. That’s an increase of only 160/150=6.67%. At 50% critical damage, 210/200=5%.

If your critical chance is 50%, then you’ll have to divide all those values by 2 to get the actual dps increase (3.17% and 2.5% respectively for the example above). I’d go as far to say that when it comes to your weapons (which have the worse stat tradeoff for critical damage) you’ll be much better off if you pick soldier’s instead of zerker, because you’ll be lucky if the critical damage goes higher than +1% dps.

Take a shout Warrior for example, having 1400 healing power (which is a pretty huge commitment) gives you a total of the equivalent of 140hp/sec assuming you are using 3 shouts on CD every time. Yes you get a bonus to your heal skills (.05 from signet!) and regen (.125!) but it’s just not enough of a return!

That depends. Some guy on the ele forums calculated that the healing difference between zerker and cleric gear is over 10k per 30 seconds with 90% of it being AoE. That’s quite a bit and could be very useful under the right circumstances*.

*= the right circumstances being the (large?) group of players that wear zerker like the elite but unlike the elite cannot perfom well enough to survive on their own.

Galtrix.7369:

Kilandros.2098:

Galtrix.7369:

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I’m taking a stand here and now and saying I will not go berserker no matter what. I may continue to get kicked out of parties, but I will report each and every one of the people that vote to kick me, because this thinking is utterly wrong and is harmful for an mmo. I encourage every single player that does not use berserker gear to do the same. Report any players that kick you from parties because of your build, insult you, or demand that you use berserker gear.

This is an abuse to the reporting tool. You will be banned if you abuse that system.

Quit being spiteful. It is not against the rules to kick people because you don’t want to play with them.

No, it is not abuse. I will be improving the game by reporting those elitists and getting them banned. So far I’ve reported many of those elitists, and guess how many times I’ve been banned/suspended? None.

Kicking people because you don’t like the gear they’re wearing is right up there with racism. It doesn’t belong here, nor does it warrant kicking people from parties. Kicking people because of their gear is not only rude and disrespectful, but it completely ruins the community. Take a look yourself.

Dungeon kicks are akin to racism? I’m reporting your post. Either you’re straight up trolling, or you simply need a break from the forums for awhile.

My goodness. You may need to grow some thicker skin if that little comparison upset you. And congratulations by the way. That report you already sent in, or are going to send in, is going to do absolutely nothing Welcome to GW2.

Look I don’t want to derail this thread, but this isn’t a sensitivity issue. It’s a let’s-keep-this-discussion-civil while we talk about a video game issue. You may think that your analogy was a good one, but I think it’s the kind of thing that turns threads open discussions into locked threads. That’s why I reported it. I don’t particularly care what Anet does with the report; it’s not up to me.

Keep it civil and we’re cool.

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I agree, people do not have to play with me. But starting a dungeon with me in their party and then kicking me halfway through because of my gear is reportable. I am not entitled to much of anything. It is an mmorpg and I should be able to play however the hell I want to play. That’s what an mmorpg implies.

If I felt entitled, like you said, I would be kicking literally every single full berserker player that tries to party with me. Do I do that? No. All I want is equality for all types of gear. I do not kick people because of the gear they wear. I simply report the ones that think they’re better than me because they wear different gear.

Half way through is not against the rules. It takes time for people to realize you have on clerics. My guess is they say zerk only, youjoin the group, then they find out halfway through and kick you.

You DO feel entitled. If others can’t play however they want, then why should you? Quit forcing people to play with your crappy build.

You DO realize you have compared racism to kicked people from parties right? Kick people from parties is the same as brutally enslaving a race of people? Got it.

If people say “Zerks only”, then I respect their wishes to play with people that have similar playstyles. However, NOT posting that and kicking people with non-zerk gear is childish and I report them for it. This is an mmorpg. Someone could be wearing all blue armor and blue trinkets and come into my party because they need dungeon gear. Would I kick them for it? Hell no, they’d be contributing something to the group – even if it is a small amount of contribution.

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

What’s there to prove? This whole thread started because someone was unhappy that so many people demand players use zerker gear. And they aren’t demanding it because it’s worse than the alternative.

It’s incredible that the majority of players find the best and optimal builds. You can challenge me and call me wrong, but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

What is there to prove you ask? You said I was wrong so prove me wrong rather then just say it without anything to back it with.

There’s nearly universal agreement that Zerker is optimal. That’s why this thread got started—because the OP didn’t like how many players demand Zerker gear in dungeons. That’s why you came here, to voice your similar displeasure.

So I say again, there’s nothing to prove. Players aren’t stupid. They’ve been finding optimal builds for years. Currently, Zerker is optimal according to the majority of players. That’s proof by itself. If Zerker wasn’t optimal—surprise—players wouldn’t be demanding it on dungeon runs.

How is this thread not locked yet? I’m beyond baffled.

Ethics.4519:

How is this thread not locked yet? I’m beyond baffled.

Because Anet agrees with my opinion. That’s the only logical explanation.

Galtrix.7369:

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I agree, people do not have to play with me. But starting a dungeon with me in their party and then kicking me halfway through because of my gear is reportable. I am not entitled to much of anything. It is an mmorpg and I should be able to play however the hell I want to play. That’s what an mmorpg implies.

If I felt entitled, like you said, I would be kicking literally every single full berserker player that tries to party with me. Do I do that? No. All I want is equality for all types of gear. I do not kick people because of the gear they wear. I simply report the ones that think they’re better than me because they wear different gear.

Half way through is not against the rules. It takes time for people to realize you have on clerics. My guess is they say zerk only, youjoin the group, then they find out halfway through and kick you.

You DO feel entitled. If others can’t play however they want, then why should you? Quit forcing people to play with your crappy build.

You DO realize you have compared racism to kicked people from parties right? Kick people from parties is the same as brutally enslaving a race of people? Got it.

If people say “Zerks only”, then I respect their wishes to play with people that have similar playstyles. However, NOT posting that and kicking people with non-zerk gear is childish and I report them for it. This is an mmorpg. Someone could be wearing all blue armor and blue trinkets and come into my party because they need dungeon gear. Would I kick them for it? Hell no, they’d be contributing something to the group – even if it is a small amount of contribution.

You do realise that you are telling a group of people to respect others right to play how they want, by telling them they should play a certain way.

You like to wear whatever gear you want, great. You like to play with others no matter what kind of gear they are wearing, great.

What if I don’t? If I have the same rights as you, to play however I want, I can also choose who I want to play with.

Anet has designed the vote to kick feature to only need two votes. And unless I am missing some documented rules about valid reasons to use that feature. Using my right to play however I want allows me, with the help of one other party member, to kick a player for any or no reason at all. I could kick you for joining my group as a Sylvari and It would be with in the rules.

Here’s how to solve this (please take this post with a heavy dose of sarcasm).

Eliminate all classes/professions except for warrior. Playing differently and enjoying different classes and skills lessens damage output. Make all traits fixed as well. Next, eliminate all armor and weapon types except for Zerker. Since it’s the best in the game, the others clearly don’t matter so no one will miss them. Finally, change the game name to Zerker Wars 2 and remove all signs of individuality in the player base. Everyone will be running Zerker and will be a super elite dpser.

…except not.

Galtrix.7369:

not contributing anything however, is kickable.

What if people kicked you, because they felt your gear wasn’t contributing anything…..

CryxTryx.9208:

Galtrix.7369:

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I agree, people do not have to play with me. But starting a dungeon with me in their party and then kicking me halfway through because of my gear is reportable. I am not entitled to much of anything. It is an mmorpg and I should be able to play however the hell I want to play. That’s what an mmorpg implies.

If I felt entitled, like you said, I would be kicking literally every single full berserker player that tries to party with me. Do I do that? No. All I want is equality for all types of gear. I do not kick people because of the gear they wear. I simply report the ones that think they’re better than me because they wear different gear.

Half way through is not against the rules. It takes time for people to realize you have on clerics. My guess is they say zerk only, youjoin the group, then they find out halfway through and kick you.

You DO feel entitled. If others can’t play however they want, then why should you? Quit forcing people to play with your crappy build.

You DO realize you have compared racism to kicked people from parties right? Kick people from parties is the same as brutally enslaving a race of people? Got it.

If people say “Zerks only”, then I respect their wishes to play with people that have similar playstyles. However, NOT posting that and kicking people with non-zerk gear is childish and I report them for it. This is an mmorpg. Someone could be wearing all blue armor and blue trinkets and come into my party because they need dungeon gear. Would I kick them for it? Hell no, they’d be contributing something to the group – even if it is a small amount of contribution.

You do realise that you are telling a group of people to respect others right to play how they want, by telling them they should play a certain way.

You like to wear whatever gear you want, great. You like to play with others no matter what kind of gear they are wearing, great.

What if I don’t? If I have the same rights as you, to play however I want, I can also choose who I want to play with.

Anet has designed the vote to kick feature to only need two votes. And unless I am missing some documented rules about valid reasons to use that feature. Using my right to play however I want allows me, with the help of one other party member, to kick a player for any or no reason at all. I could kick you for joining my group as a Sylvari and It would be with in the rules.

Alright, I’m going to keep this thread on track and try to keep it as civilized as possible. I agree with you guys that are stating similar arguments like this. If you want to play with only other people that are similar to your stats, that’s fine. If you want to play with other people that are exactly similar to your stats, SAY IT. If you start a group with a simple LFM for AC part 2, I will instantly join that because I assume that it’s open to anyone. If they kick me from that group, THEN I will report them for wasting my time. That is what I’m saying.

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

What’s there to prove? This whole thread started because someone was unhappy that so many people demand players use zerker gear. And they aren’t demanding it because it’s worse than the alternative.

It’s incredible that the majority of players find the best and optimal builds. You can challenge me and call me wrong, but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

What is there to prove you ask? You said I was wrong so prove me wrong rather then just say it without anything to back it with.

There’s nearly universal agreement that Zerker is optimal. That’s why this thread got started—because the OP didn’t like how many players demand Zerker gear in dungeons. That’s why you came here, to voice your similar displeasure.

So I say again, there’s nothing to prove. Players aren’t stupid. They’ve been finding optimal builds for years. Currently, Zerker is optimal according to the majority of players. That’s proof by itself. If Zerker wasn’t optimal—surprise—players wouldn’t be demanding it on dungeon runs.

Why won’t you try to prove it then? Compare builds and performs the same task. Pretty much all has been a theory crafted but not fully tested. So why no try and test it. Your zerker build vs my build to perform the same PVE task.

CryxTryx.9208:

You do realise that you are telling a group of people to respect others right to play how they want, by telling them they should play a certain way.

This is what’s wrong with people who wear that slogan with a badge of honor. When it’s not their way, they whine and moan about it, regardless of how it effects everybody around them.

It’s a form of Casual’s Elitism.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Galtrix.7369:

not contributing anything however, is kickable.

What if people kicked you, because they felt your gear wasn’t contributing anything…..

That’s the difference. I try my best to contribute with the build that I want to use. So I don’t provide as much dps as a full zerker… but I do provide long duration boons that will help you stay alive a lot longer.

Galtrix.7369:

Alright, I’m going to keep this thread on track and try to keep it as civilized as possible. I agree with you guys that are stating similar arguments like this. If you want to play with only other people that are similar to your stats, that’s fine. If you want to play with other people that are exactly similar to your stats, SAY IT. If you start a group with a simple LFM for AC part 2, I will instantly join that because I assume that it’s open to anyone. If they kick me from that group, THEN I will report them for wasting my time. That is what I’m saying.

You can’t report them for not letting you play with them. If it’s after they kill the boss, maybe it’s a form of griefing. You are only abusing Anet’s reporting system. Just because I say “LFM for AC part 2” doesn’t mean I have to let you play with me as soon as you join.

Galtrix.7369:

CryxTryx.9208:

Galtrix.7369:

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

I agree, people do not have to play with me. But starting a dungeon with me in their party and then kicking me halfway through because of my gear is reportable. I am not entitled to much of anything. It is an mmorpg and I should be able to play however the hell I want to play. That’s what an mmorpg implies.

If I felt entitled, like you said, I would be kicking literally every single full berserker player that tries to party with me. Do I do that? No. All I want is equality for all types of gear. I do not kick people because of the gear they wear. I simply report the ones that think they’re better than me because they wear different gear.

Half way through is not against the rules. It takes time for people to realize you have on clerics. My guess is they say zerk only, youjoin the group, then they find out halfway through and kick you.

You DO feel entitled. If others can’t play however they want, then why should you? Quit forcing people to play with your crappy build.

You DO realize you have compared racism to kicked people from parties right? Kick people from parties is the same as brutally enslaving a race of people? Got it.

If people say “Zerks only”, then I respect their wishes to play with people that have similar playstyles. However, NOT posting that and kicking people with non-zerk gear is childish and I report them for it. This is an mmorpg. Someone could be wearing all blue armor and blue trinkets and come into my party because they need dungeon gear. Would I kick them for it? Hell no, they’d be contributing something to the group – even if it is a small amount of contribution.

You do realise that you are telling a group of people to respect others right to play how they want, by telling them they should play a certain way.

You like to wear whatever gear you want, great. You like to play with others no matter what kind of gear they are wearing, great.

What if I don’t? If I have the same rights as you, to play however I want, I can also choose who I want to play with.

Anet has designed the vote to kick feature to only need two votes. And unless I am missing some documented rules about valid reasons to use that feature. Using my right to play however I want allows me, with the help of one other party member, to kick a player for any or no reason at all. I could kick you for joining my group as a Sylvari and It would be with in the rules.

Alright, I’m going to keep this thread on track and try to keep it as civilized as possible. I agree with you guys that are stating similar arguments like this. If you want to play with only other people that are similar to your stats, that’s fine. If you want to play with other people that are exactly similar to your stats, SAY IT. If you start a group with a simple LFM for AC part 2, I will instantly join that because I assume that it’s open to anyone. If they kick me from that group, THEN I will report them for wasting my time. That is what I’m saying.

You are imposing rules on my playstyle by telling me I am required to state exactly what type of group I am looking for up front.

So how about this. If you join my group and don’t ping your gear as soon as you load in, and if that gear is not optimal I will boot you and report you for wasting my time.

Please note, this is not something I do or intend to do. However your argument is easily reversed. You can’t impose rules on who or when I can kick people from my group with out going back on your ‘respect everyones playstyle.’ You’re telling people how to play, while telling people not to tell people how to play.

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

What’s there to prove? This whole thread started because someone was unhappy that so many people demand players use zerker gear. And they aren’t demanding it because it’s worse than the alternative.

It’s incredible that the majority of players find the best and optimal builds. You can challenge me and call me wrong, but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

What is there to prove you ask? You said I was wrong so prove me wrong rather then just say it without anything to back it with.

There’s nearly universal agreement that Zerker is optimal. That’s why this thread got started—because the OP didn’t like how many players demand Zerker gear in dungeons. That’s why you came here, to voice your similar displeasure.

So I say again, there’s nothing to prove. Players aren’t stupid. They’ve been finding optimal builds for years. Currently, Zerker is optimal according to the majority of players. That’s proof by itself. If Zerker wasn’t optimal—surprise—players wouldn’t be demanding it on dungeon runs.

Why won’t you try to prove it then? Compare builds and performs the same task. Pretty much all has been a theory crafted but not fully tested. So why no try and test it. Your zerker build vs my build to perform the same PVE task.

As I’ve said repeatedly, there’s nothing to prove. If most players didn’t think Zerker was better we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place, and players are notoriously good at optimizing builds.

Case closed. That’s all there is to say. You might be a better player than me who could do better in any dungeon with any set of gear. But that doesn’t change the fact that thousands of GW2 players—thousands—have analyzed it and come to the same conclusion: Zerker gear is better.

There’s nothing else to say. I do hope the design changes and opens up more variety. But I’m not holding my breath.

Galtrix.7369:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

What if people kicked you, because they felt your gear wasn’t contributing anything…..

That’s the difference. I try my best to contribute with the build that I want to use. So I don’t provide as much dps as a full zerker… but I do provide long duration boons that will help you stay alive a lot longer.

It’s all subjective though. I don’t kick people from groups once the run has started for being terrible. Only if they start griefing or start running their mouth in chat.

My main reasons for kicking on join:
Ranger enters dungeon with bow drawn and bear following.
Under Level people on anything other than AC.
Guardian Holding Staff, I ask if they use staff while fighting. if(answer == “yes”)Kick else Hope it doesn’t hurt too much

Then of course I kick if I add constraints to the LFG that aren’t followed.

However, some people might find you worthless and kick you. But who is right? Is your awesome boons worth losing tons of dps? Or should they kick you, find more dps and lose those Boons? Who is right?

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

What’s there to prove? This whole thread started because someone was unhappy that so many people demand players use zerker gear. And they aren’t demanding it because it’s worse than the alternative.

It’s incredible that the majority of players find the best and optimal builds. You can challenge me and call me wrong, but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

What is there to prove you ask? You said I was wrong so prove me wrong rather then just say it without anything to back it with.

There’s nearly universal agreement that Zerker is optimal. That’s why this thread got started—because the OP didn’t like how many players demand Zerker gear in dungeons. That’s why you came here, to voice your similar displeasure.

So I say again, there’s nothing to prove. Players aren’t stupid. They’ve been finding optimal builds for years. Currently, Zerker is optimal according to the majority of players. That’s proof by itself. If Zerker wasn’t optimal—surprise—players wouldn’t be demanding it on dungeon runs.

Why won’t you try to prove it then? Compare builds and performs the same task. Pretty much all has been a theory crafted but not fully tested. So why no try and test it. Your zerker build vs my build to perform the same PVE task.

As I’ve said repeatedly, there’s nothing to prove. If most players didn’t think Zerker was better we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place, and players are notoriously good at optimizing builds.

Case closed. That’s all there is to say. You might be a better player than me who could do better in any dungeon with any set of gear. But that doesn’t change the fact that thousands of GW2 players—thousands—have analyzed it and come to the same conclusion: Zerker gear is better.

There’s nothing else to say. I do hope the design changes and opens up more variety. But I’m not holding my breath.

Thousands people used to say the world is flat. They were wrong. Your argument is just cause other people say it then it must be so? Really history has proven that is worst then to do. Test it then. You basically stated your really good at zerking so why not prove it to me that you can do everything in PVE better than my build can.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Galtrix.7369:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

What if people kicked you, because they felt your gear wasn’t contributing anything…..

That’s the difference. I try my best to contribute with the build that I want to use. So I don’t provide as much dps as a full zerker… but I do provide long duration boons that will help you stay alive a lot longer.

It’s all subjective though. I don’t kick people from groups once the run has started for being terrible. Only if they start griefing or start running their mouth in chat.

My main reasons for kicking on join:
Ranger enters dungeon with bow drawn and bear following.
Under Level people on anything other than AC.
Guardian Holding Staff, I ask if they use staff while fighting. if(answer == “yes”)Kick else Hope it doesn’t hurt too much

Then of course I kick if I add constraints to the LFG that aren’t followed.

I disagree with your reasons for kicking. However, if you add constraints to the LFG and they aren’t followed, I agree that you should kick whoever broke those constraints.

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

What’s there to prove? This whole thread started because someone was unhappy that so many people demand players use zerker gear. And they aren’t demanding it because it’s worse than the alternative.

It’s incredible that the majority of players find the best and optimal builds. You can challenge me and call me wrong, but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

What is there to prove you ask? You said I was wrong so prove me wrong rather then just say it without anything to back it with.

There’s nearly universal agreement that Zerker is optimal. That’s why this thread got started—because the OP didn’t like how many players demand Zerker gear in dungeons. That’s why you came here, to voice your similar displeasure.

So I say again, there’s nothing to prove. Players aren’t stupid. They’ve been finding optimal builds for years. Currently, Zerker is optimal according to the majority of players. That’s proof by itself. If Zerker wasn’t optimal—surprise—players wouldn’t be demanding it on dungeon runs.

Why won’t you try to prove it then? Compare builds and performs the same task. Pretty much all has been a theory crafted but not fully tested. So why no try and test it. Your zerker build vs my build to perform the same PVE task.

As I’ve said repeatedly, there’s nothing to prove. If most players didn’t think Zerker was better we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place, and players are notoriously good at optimizing builds.

Case closed. That’s all there is to say. You might be a better player than me who could do better in any dungeon with any set of gear. But that doesn’t change the fact that thousands of GW2 players—thousands—have analyzed it and come to the same conclusion: Zerker gear is better.

There’s nothing else to say. I do hope the design changes and opens up more variety. But I’m not holding my breath.

Thousands people used to say the world is flat. They were wrong. Your argument is just cause other people say it then it must be so? Really history has proven that is worst then to do. Test it then. You basically stated your really good at zerking so why not prove it to me that you can do everything in PVE better than my build can.

A curious analogy, considering the belief that the world was flat was insisted upon by the religious zealots for decades against the contrary evidence of scientists. And here we are in the face of innumerable data from other gamers yielding results consistent with my argument that Zerker is better.

And no, I will not accept your challenge to a virtual duel, as thrilling as that might be.

Galtrix.7369:

If you want to play with other people that are exactly similar to your stats, SAY IT.

This basically sums up the whole thread. People shouldn’t be such kittens to kick players mid-run only because they don’t run the gear they DIDN’T ask for. Simple.

CryxTryx.9208:

You are imposing rules on my playstyle by telling me I am required to state exactly what type of group I am looking for up front.

When you play any game enough times, you start to develop house rules. When a lot of people play a game enough times, sets of house rules develop. Knowing which rules are in effect is necessary to play the game, so yes, you do have to state exactly what you want.

This is not a play-style. This is pregame setup. Calling it an imposition on your ability to play is flat out wrong.

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Suddenflame.2601:

Kilandros.2098:

Again, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. In Dredge the spike damage is from the Dredge that shoot the shockwaves and the Dredge with the rifles—either of which can hit anyone in any gear for thousands in a single hit. The other attacks are largely inconsequential. I realize you’re determined to prove your point, but you’re mistaken. You’re just wrong.

Now I’m not arguing that people are never downed by the smaller, constant damage. But that’s not usually the reason better players are downed. The times that I’m downed are, for example, when Rabosovich gets me and I was out of Endurance. But having bunker gear wouldn’t have made any difference. The same result would have occurred.

You want to wear other gear? Great. Get the Devs to improve the game design. But as it currently stands, anything but Zerker isn’t making you better, it’s just capping your potential.

Ok we can put that to an experiment shall we. We can go into the new path and see how much constant damage you can take before you get downed. Espically considering Aetherblades love to give constant damage that can’t be kited. Prove to me that your such a great player that the constant damage means little to nothing to the all and powerful zerker builds that cant handle much since they lack armor. Or why not leave it there lets go to scarlet invasion and try to solo a Molten alliance tunnel and kill all minions afterwards. If you can do that then I will believe you that zerker is as mighty as you say it is. And I will admit on here that the constant damage means little.

What’s there to prove? This whole thread started because someone was unhappy that so many people demand players use zerker gear. And they aren’t demanding it because it’s worse than the alternative.

It’s incredible that the majority of players find the best and optimal builds. You can challenge me and call me wrong, but I think the fact that this thread was even started speaks volumes.

What is there to prove you ask? You said I was wrong so prove me wrong rather then just say it without anything to back it with.

There’s nearly universal agreement that Zerker is optimal. That’s why this thread got started—because the OP didn’t like how many players demand Zerker gear in dungeons. That’s why you came here, to voice your similar displeasure.

So I say again, there’s nothing to prove. Players aren’t stupid. They’ve been finding optimal builds for years. Currently, Zerker is optimal according to the majority of players. That’s proof by itself. If Zerker wasn’t optimal—surprise—players wouldn’t be demanding it on dungeon runs.

Why won’t you try to prove it then? Compare builds and performs the same task. Pretty much all has been a theory crafted but not fully tested. So why no try and test it. Your zerker build vs my build to perform the same PVE task.

As I’ve said repeatedly, there’s nothing to prove. If most players didn’t think Zerker was better we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place, and players are notoriously good at optimizing builds.

Case closed. That’s all there is to say. You might be a better player than me who could do better in any dungeon with any set of gear. But that doesn’t change the fact that thousands of GW2 players—thousands—have analyzed it and come to the same conclusion: Zerker gear is better.

There’s nothing else to say. I do hope the design changes and opens up more variety. But I’m not holding my breath.

Thousands people used to say the world is flat. They were wrong. Your argument is just cause other people say it then it must be so? Really history has proven that is worst then to do. Test it then. You basically stated your really good at zerking so why not prove it to me that you can do everything in PVE better than my build can.

A curious analogy, considering the belief that the world was flat was insisted upon by the religious zealots for decades against the contrary evidence of scientists. And here we are in the face of innumerable data from other gamers yielding results consistent with my argument that Zerker is better.

And no, I will not accept your challenge to a virtual duel, as thrilling as that might be.

And considering a few of those religious zealots claimed to have been to the edge of the world themselves…. can you say that those gamers have tested the zerker against support argument themselves or are just going along with the popular crowd?

Wolfheart.1938:

Galtrix.7369:

If you want to play with other people that are exactly similar to your stats, SAY IT.

This basically sums up the whole thread. People shouldn’t be such kittens to kick players mid-run only because they don’t run the gear they DIDN’T ask for. Simple.

Yep, perfect. That’s all I want.

Galtrix.7369:

Wolfheart.1938:

Galtrix.7369:

If you want to play with other people that are exactly similar to your stats, SAY IT.

This basically sums up the whole thread. People shouldn’t be such kittens to kick players mid-run only because they don’t run the gear they DIDN’T ask for. Simple.

Yep, perfect. That’s all I want.

Right, screw everybody with an opposing view. Report them for not agreeing with me!

Your perma regen really helped me against every boss attack, it saved me so many times. It was so worth sacrificing all your damage for cleric gear!

LF healer must have cleric stats and camp water attunement! THANKS!

Ethics.4519:

Galtrix.7369:

Wolfheart.1938:

Galtrix.7369:

If you want to play with other people that are exactly similar to your stats, SAY IT.

This basically sums up the whole thread. People shouldn’t be such kittens to kick players mid-run only because they don’t run the gear they DIDN’T ask for. Simple.

Yep, perfect. That’s all I want.

Right, screw everybody with an opposing view. Report them for not agreeing with me!

Do you read the forums much? I hear when you read things, you gain knowledge from them and you remember them. Apparently not in this case, because you’ve pretty much repeated the same sentence about 6 times every time you read something of mine. I will not repeat the paragraphs I wrote for a 7th time, you’ll have to go back and read it yourself instead of having me write an essay.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Your perma regen really helped me against every boss attack, it saved me so many times. It was so worth sacrificing all your damage for cleric gear!

LF healer must have cleric stats and camp water attunement! THANKS!

Thanks for your sarcasm, it really adds to the general usefulness of this thread.

Galtrix.7369:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Your perma regen really helped me against every boss attack, it saved me so many times. It was so worth sacrificing all your damage for cleric gear!

LF healer must have cleric stats and camp water attunement! THANKS!

Thanks for your sarcasm, it really adds to the general usefulness of this thread.

What??? It’s not sarcasm, I’m being serious. Stop doubting my builds, you don’t think they are good? ELITIST SCUM!

Anyone else notice that the same people saying that the only viable gear is zerker gear are often the exact same people complaining about specific content because it kills them too fast?

DusK.3849:

Anyone else notice that the same people saying that the only viable gear is zerker gear are often the exact same people complaining about specific content because it kills them too fast?

I find the people that say that, are the people who say content is too easy. Not too hard.

I can make generalizations as well.

Galtrix…I know we don’t always see eye to eye, but I couldn’t agree with this post more. It was always the stated intention of this game that you could play the way you want to…and you can.

But you can’t change human nature either. If you pug dungeons, you’re going to run into people who really believe their way is the only way. That doesn’t make them right.

That’s why I tend to run dungeons with my guild. It’s far more fun for me. It’s not as efficient, but we always tell people to bring the character they think they’d have the most fun playing.

Because at the end of the day…Guild Wars 2 is a game. We should enjoy it.

Vayne.8563:

Because at the end of the day…Guild Wars 2 is a game. We should enjoy it.

Being efficient can be fun, and for a lot of people is fun. I’m not going to try justify kicking people for not using the ‘best’ gear, I don’t bother with that personally. But it seems you’re insinuating that people who try to play efficiently, aren’t having fun.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Vayne.8563:

Because at the end of the day…Guild Wars 2 is a game. We should enjoy it.

Being efficient can be fun, and for a lot of people is fun. I’m not going to try justify kicking people for not using the ‘best’ gear, I don’t bother with that personally. But it seems you’re insinuating that people who try to play efficiently, aren’t having fun.

I’m insinuating nothing. I’m saying that there’s nothing wrong with Galtrix playing as he is, and that he’s get more traction and have more fun joining a guild with like-minded people, instead of taking a chance with pugs who might think differently than he does.

If you want a speed run, advertise a speed run. If you want only berserker gear, advertise it. I’m sure If you don’t, don’t kick people for bringing a character they enjoy playing, because the fault would then be yours.

I’m not a fan of elitism, to put it lightly. It is a strange matter that rears its head up in nearly any game out there, and it is a bit of a difficult matter to tackle. However, after years of gaming, I figured it out. The thing with regular players is that they operate under a certain ideology when playing a game: if you accommodate me and my playstyle, I’ll accommodate your playstyle, and that way when we all accept everyone, we’re all happy. From here, particular build choices or classes are done out of entertainment, and this accommodation is done as a form of mutual respect.

The elitist has a different ideology: I’ll play the way I want, and if other people don’t play how I want, then they’re bad people and should feel bad. Then, they go around harassing other players who don’t do what the elitist wants, who don’t think what the elitist thinks. “They’re so selfish because they don’t do what I want to do, play the game how I want to play, build the way I want them to build, and how dare they question me when I assume that my way is the unspoken norm?”, the elitist believe. Sincerely. They view other players as insubordinate tools that need to be morphed for their own gain.

Elitism starts as a means to ulterior goals, and in the case of guild wars 2, the primary goal is money. By using specific tactics with specific gear and specific classes, they aim to complete content faster, which gets them digital money quicker. That’s really the only advantage to doing something quicker in this game, since faster doesn’t equate to more enjoyable or even “better” really. Now, there’s always the urge to push oneself further, or to try for an unofficial record run, or to form a group based on performance. But this doesn’t cause the exclusion and the harassment that you see from elitism. No, the driving force must be something that benefits from exclusion and provides some reward for doing so.

Whether it is just people who view others as tools who come here, or if it is regular people who adapt that way of thinking after awhile, elitism has a destructive effect on the community. It fosters superiority complexes. It punishes compromise. It seeks to eliminate diversity. Elitism is essentially the end of negotiation: Do what I want, or go away. From these negative traits, we see a sea of others emerge.

You may have noticed how trollish elitists are. This is no coincidence: To one with a superiority complex, there is nothing to gain from “reasoning”, or “empathy”. To them, it is like being compassionate to an ant on the sidewalk. Because of this, they don’t care to listen, to reason, or to respect. They get peace of mind by you feeling bad, and by you going away, because they see you as something less than worthwhile that also obtrusively takes money from their wallet. This gives them peace of mind to be contradictory, nonsensical, and hypocritical. Their goal was never to be “right” in the first place, for all of the “right” people are the ones that agree with them.

This hostility breeds more hostility from their victims, which in-turn makes the whole game more and more unpleasant for the bystanders. It has gotten to the point that I am hesitant to offer advice, because if I do I’ll be despised for being intolerant and an elitist. Makes you wonder who gave them that notion in the first place, doesn’kitten The idea of segregation in the game is horrible, since it results in different minded people who refuse to cooperate competing for the attention of content developers, which can only end in disappointment for the playerbase.

This drives away new players, who come to the game to find the community less than unwelcoming. But, as always, elitism has no problem with this. The elitist actually prefers to drive diversity away, drive players away, because this makes it easier for them to get money, and those didn’t count as “people” in the first place. Then, when there are no more dissenting opinions, they’re free to get content in the game with hard DPS checks and damage meters while not having to worry about balancing non-zerker build layouts in PVE.

The worst part is, there’s very little the community can do about it. The moderation has been lax on the issue, so the only thing the rest of the community can do is be as stubborn as the elitists, hope their group grows quicker, and when the elitists feel truly unwelcome, then just maybe they’ll go away. This is a far shot, because they sincerely believe that anyone who doesn’t approve of their antics is jealous of them.