Guild Wars 2

Dear Anet,
If you aren’t going to let us post ascended drops to the BLTP or give them to our guildies or friends or take our chances at the mystic forge for a different ascended item or even salvage them, then at least drastically increase what we can get from NPC vendors for them.

I’ve gotten several ascended rings in WvW rank bags. I swear under my breath whenever I get them. All of my toons are set from ascended jewelry. That’s not even taking into account that often the drops are stat combinations that do me little good, even if I needed an ascended jewelry piece. They take up a loot roll that could have been gotten me a yellow or orange item. Even a green would be preferable to me. At least I could break a green down for crafting mats to use or auction or throw 4 green, yellow or orange items in the mystic forge, or sell even a green item on the BLTP for more than I can vendor for what is supposedly one of the best and “luckiest” loot rolls in the game.

I wouldn’t want to see ascended jewelry taken completely off the loot tables. I’m sure there are still people who would like them. But one of the “luckiest” loot rolls shouldn’t be the most useless for many of us.

Ascended Trinkets are better than Ascended armor or weapon – they give you the most boost for the buck, as it were. I think they are fin the way they are.

for most people they see an ascended trinket and think “dang, why couldn’t have been an exo.”

There’s something very wrong when the highest tier, isn’t the most wanted/rewarding….. :/

Its even worse for the daily Fractals chest. That ring that has a vendor price of not even 5 silver could have been an Ascended Weapon/Armour chest who’s worth would be closer to 50-100g (not even factoring in the price of levelling up that craft in the first place), or a literally priceless Fractal skin.

Five silver is nothing really but an insult. Although Fractal runners are more than used to having their intelligence insulted (most of the time “buffed rewards” have later been determined to be nerfed rewards, and tedious Fractals which generally have gotten “fixed” generally have seen nothing more than increased tediousness).

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ascended Trinkets are better than Ascended armor or weapon – they give you the most boost for the buck, as it were. I think they are fin the way they are.

Sure. If you don’t have all your accessory/jewelry slots already filled with ascended stuff the drops are great. I’m sure plenty of people would love them. But, like I said in my OP, I and many of my WvW-centric friends have all of our jewelry slots full of ascended trinkets. Between drops and previously buying them with laurels. In which case more ascended trinkets are as useful as grey vendor trash is.

If we can’t auction ,give to friends or salvage them (preferably for ascended mats to craft other gear or put on the BLTP) at least I think we should get more than 4s, 95c for them.

Meadfreek.6789:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ascended Trinkets are better than Ascended armor or weapon – they give you the most boost for the buck, as it were. I think they are fin the way they are.

Sure. If you don’t have all your accessory/jewelry slots already filled with ascended stuff the drops are great. I’m sure plenty of people would love them. But, like I said in my OP, I and many of my WvW-centric friends have all of our jewelry slots full of ascended trinkets. Between drops and previously buying them with laurels. In which case more ascended trinkets are as useful as grey vendor trash is.

If we can’t auction ,give to friends or salvage them (preferably for ascended mats to craft other gear or put on the BLTP) at least I think we should get more than 4s, 95c for them.

Other characters you have? – they don’t drop enough to make a huge difference.

+1 I recently destroyed 15 or so ascended rings to clear up bank space. Great rewards ;_;

I just think Ascended should be salvageable. Plain and simple fix.

I don’t think, however, their value at the trader should increase. Even if they don’t set up a reasonable solution like salvaging or a trading post market, I don’t think their value at the trader should increase. It’s just not a solution at all.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Meadfreek.6789:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ascended Trinkets are better than Ascended armor or weapon – they give you the most boost for the buck, as it were. I think they are fin the way they are.

Sure. If you don’t have all your accessory/jewelry slots already filled with ascended stuff the drops are great. I’m sure plenty of people would love them. But, like I said in my OP, I and many of my WvW-centric friends have all of our jewelry slots full of ascended trinkets. Between drops and previously buying them with laurels. In which case more ascended trinkets are as useful as grey vendor trash is.

If we can’t auction ,give to friends or salvage them (preferably for ascended mats to craft other gear or put on the BLTP) at least I think we should get more than 4s, 95c for them.

Other characters you have? – they don’t drop enough to make a huge difference.

My bank tab full of rings says otherwise buddy and this is after vendoring probably around 4 or 5 tabs of rings overall.

Selsi.9675:

+1 I recently destroyed 15 or so ascended rings to clear up bank space. Great rewards ;_;

Why not sell them at the merchant instead of destroying them? They might not be worth much but god forbid you get any money…

Dusty Moon.4382:

Meadfreek.6789:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ascended Trinkets are better than Ascended armor or weapon – they give you the most boost for the buck, as it were. I think they are fin the way they are.

Sure. If you don’t have all your accessory/jewelry slots already filled with ascended stuff the drops are great. I’m sure plenty of people would love them. But, like I said in my OP, I and many of my WvW-centric friends have all of our jewelry slots full of ascended trinkets. Between drops and previously buying them with laurels. In which case more ascended trinkets are as useful as grey vendor trash is.

If we can’t auction ,give to friends or salvage them (preferably for ascended mats to craft other gear or put on the BLTP) at least I think we should get more than 4s, 95c for them.

Other characters you have? – they don’t drop enough to make a huge difference.

Well, if they don’t make a huge difference, can we please get a bit more worth to them and make fractals/WvW on par with dungeon earnings, thanks

Taygus.4571:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Meadfreek.6789:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ascended Trinkets are better than Ascended armor or weapon – they give you the most boost for the buck, as it were. I think they are fin the way they are.

Sure. If you don’t have all your accessory/jewelry slots already filled with ascended stuff the drops are great. I’m sure plenty of people would love them. But, like I said in my OP, I and many of my WvW-centric friends have all of our jewelry slots full of ascended trinkets. Between drops and previously buying them with laurels. In which case more ascended trinkets are as useful as grey vendor trash is.

If we can’t auction ,give to friends or salvage them (preferably for ascended mats to craft other gear or put on the BLTP) at least I think we should get more than 4s, 95c for them.

Other characters you have? – they don’t drop enough to make a huge difference.

Well, if they don’t make a huge difference, can we please get a bit more worth to them and make fractals/WvW on par with dungeon earnings, thanks

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Saylu.8271:

Taygus.4571:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Meadfreek.6789:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ascended Trinkets are better than Ascended armor or weapon – they give you the most boost for the buck, as it were. I think they are fin the way they are.

Sure. If you don’t have all your accessory/jewelry slots already filled with ascended stuff the drops are great. I’m sure plenty of people would love them. But, like I said in my OP, I and many of my WvW-centric friends have all of our jewelry slots full of ascended trinkets. Between drops and previously buying them with laurels. In which case more ascended trinkets are as useful as grey vendor trash is.

If we can’t auction ,give to friends or salvage them (preferably for ascended mats to craft other gear or put on the BLTP) at least I think we should get more than 4s, 95c for them.

Other characters you have? – they don’t drop enough to make a huge difference.

Well, if they don’t make a huge difference, can we please get a bit more worth to them and make fractals/WvW on par with dungeon earnings, thanks

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Again, I say.
“it’s a sad state when people are more excited to get an exotic(even an exotic trinket), than the highest tier in game”.

Saylu.8271:

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Why shouldn’t they be profitable? Any other rarity of trinket is, to one extent or another. To paraphrase Taygus, at least put WvW-centric and Fractal-centric players on par with folks that speed run dungeons over and over.

Why unsellable? Accidentally vendoring an ascended piece of gear is the same as accidentally vendoring a legendary or expensive dye drop. Just be careful. And if you do accidentally vendor something you can buy it back if you catch it quick enough.

Meadfreek.6789:

Saylu.8271:

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Why shouldn’t they be profitable? Any other rarity of trinket is, to one extent or another. To paraphrase Taygus, at least put WvW-centric and Fractal-centric players on par with folks that speed run dungeons over and over.

Why unsellable? Accidentally vendoring an ascended piece of gear is the same as accidentally vendoring a legendary or expensive dye drop. Just be careful. And if you do accidentally vendor something you can buy it back if you catch it quick enough.

By your logic, running dungeons should drop ascended equipment as well. As it currently stand fractals of the mist is a good source for ascended equipment while other dungeons are not.

Ascended equipment are hard to craft, account bound and can’t be salvage and is sold for minimal price. Anet intention obviously isn’t for you to get those ascended equipment so that you can vendor them. Make them unsellable so people will get the idea.

Saylu.8271:

Meadfreek.6789:

Saylu.8271:

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Why shouldn’t they be profitable? Any other rarity of trinket is, to one extent or another. To paraphrase Taygus, at least put WvW-centric and Fractal-centric players on par with folks that speed run dungeons over and over.

Why unsellable? Accidentally vendoring an ascended piece of gear is the same as accidentally vendoring a legendary or expensive dye drop. Just be careful. And if you do accidentally vendor something you can buy it back if you catch it quick enough.

By your logic, running dungeons should drop ascended equipment as well. As it currently stand fractals of the mist is a good source for ascended equipment while other dungeons are not.

Ascended equipment are hard to craft, account bound and can’t be salvage and is sold for minimal price. Anet intention obviously isn’t for you to get those ascended equipment so that you can vendor them. Make them unsellable so people will get the idea.

I’ve done alot of fractals.
I’ve never gotten anything but rings. They’re easy and quick to come by in fractals.(no I don’t want a nerf. ) gold on the other hand is very slow to come by if you mainly do fractals.
Same for exotic equipment. I want it, currency wise, to be on an equal footing with dungeons..why is that so bad?.

Other trinkets are best got via guild commendations or laurals, and actually, no not fractals.
Time wise, I’ve played fractals more than world bosses.

However I’ve gotten 2 ascended boxes via world bosses. ….so fractals isn’t the best way to get ascended equipment.

Like I said. MOST people who get an ascended trinket drop think “ah crap, why couldn’t it have been an exo at least!”
Thats bad.

Maybe limited ring drops to only fractals lv19 or less. (meaning take them out of the loot table for higher fractals… hich should increase other useful drops…maybe…). Most people by then have all the trinkets they need.
Same for WvW & PvP, after a certain rank, take them out of the loot tables, and hopefully increase slightly the drops of other ascended equipment.

Thats of course if they really don’t want to allow ascended equipment to be salvageable… (not entirely sure why..maybe because we can’t craft ascended trinkets yet).
__
If you take away the option to sell, getting one as a drop, will suck even more!.

Taygus.4571:

Saylu.8271:

Meadfreek.6789:

Saylu.8271:

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Why shouldn’t they be profitable? Any other rarity of trinket is, to one extent or another. To paraphrase Taygus, at least put WvW-centric and Fractal-centric players on par with folks that speed run dungeons over and over.

Why unsellable? Accidentally vendoring an ascended piece of gear is the same as accidentally vendoring a legendary or expensive dye drop. Just be careful. And if you do accidentally vendor something you can buy it back if you catch it quick enough.

By your logic, running dungeons should drop ascended equipment as well. As it currently stand fractals of the mist is a good source for ascended equipment while other dungeons are not.

Ascended equipment are hard to craft, account bound and can’t be salvage and is sold for minimal price. Anet intention obviously isn’t for you to get those ascended equipment so that you can vendor them. Make them unsellable so people will get the idea.

I’ve done alot of fractals.
I’ve never gotten anything but rings. They’re easy and quick to come by in fractals.(no I don’t want a nerf. ) gold on the other hand is very slow to come by if you mainly do fractals.
Same for exotic equipment. I want it, currency wise, to be on an equal footing with dungeons..why is that so bad?.

Other trinkets are best got via guild commendations or laurals, and actually, no not fractals.
Time wise, I’ve played fractals more than world bosses.

However I’ve gotten 2 ascended boxes via world bosses. ….so fractals isn’t the best way to get ascended equipment.

Like I said. MOST people who get an ascended trinket drop think “ah crap, why couldn’t it have been an exo at least!”
Thats bad.

Maybe limited ring drops to only fractals lv19 or less. (meaning take them out of the loot table for higher fractals… hich should increase other useful drops…maybe…). Most people by then have all the trinkets they need.
Same for WvW & PvP, after a certain rank, take them out of the loot tables, and hopefully increase slightly the drops of other ascended equipment.

Thats of course if they really don’t want to allow ascended equipment to be salvageable… (not entirely sure why..maybe because we can’t craft ascended trinkets yet).
__
If you take away the option to sell, getting one as a drop, will suck even more!.

People do fractals for ascended equipments or rare fractal skins not for gold. I would ask something more meaningful. The attributes of ascended equipment that drop are often not the ones that are desired. It is problem that is often bought up but not address by Anet.

Saylu.8271:

Meadfreek.6789:

Saylu.8271:

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Why shouldn’t they be profitable? Any other rarity of trinket is, to one extent or another. To paraphrase Taygus, at least put WvW-centric and Fractal-centric players on par with folks that speed run dungeons over and over.

Why unsellable? Accidentally vendoring an ascended piece of gear is the same as accidentally vendoring a legendary or expensive dye drop. Just be careful. And if you do accidentally vendor something you can buy it back if you catch it quick enough.

By your logic, running dungeons should drop ascended equipment as well. As it currently stand fractals of the mist is a good source for ascended equipment while other dungeons are not.

Ascended equipment are hard to craft, account bound and can’t be salvage and is sold for minimal price. Anet intention obviously isn’t for you to get those ascended equipment so that you can vendor them. Make them unsellable so people will get the idea.

“By my logic” ?

I don’t understand how you got that from what I said. I didn’t say a thing about expanding the ways anyone can get ascended trinkets. The current sources of ascended trinkets are just fine by me.

What I mean by comparing dungeon runs to Fractals or WvW is: Dungeons make a player good money and often green, yellow or orange gear that they can use or sell. Sometimes for quite a bit of gold. At the very least that player can salvage a blue, green, yellow or orange for mats that are useful in one way or another. Or they can put 4 similar pieces in the forge for a little pseudo-gambling entertainment. Or I suppose they could also sell them to an NPC if they don’t care about maximizing their money.

Ascended trinkets come from activities that are every bit as valid, difficult, intensive and time consuming as dungeons. A player can use them (maybe), sell them for the price of a couple teleports across the map or…..well, they might make a nice paperweight or doorstop.

It just strikes me as wrong that the “most powerful and exclusive” trinkets in the game are often the most useless.

Personally I’d love it if they were salvageable for anything from (too common IMO) bloodstone dust or a chance for dark matter, empy fragment and/or dragonite or a rare chance at a deldrimor ingot or spiritwood/damask. (Even though the last two would be a bit illogical). I have five 80s, all with all the ascended trinkets I need and then some. But I’d love to turn unused ascended trinkets into mats towards my ascended armor sets.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Other characters you have? – they don’t drop enough to make a huge difference.

Do you fractals? Because I have like a bank tab full of them.

Tell me, what would you do when you have like ten copies of Cirque of Arah? And don’t ask me to gear my characters with them because they’ve been in full ascended trinkets for a long time.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Other characters you have? – they don’t drop enough to make a huge difference.

What are you on about? Just in the last month I’ve sold off another two bank tabs of them. Most end up being Band of The Brotherhood, Ralena/Vassar’s Band, and Khilbron’s Phylactery.

I have all the gear I need for my other characters and I have no need for bad drops like those rings. For all the countless rings I’ve gotten, I’ve had to trade relics for the stats that I actually wanted. It seems the drop rate is skewed in favor of trash stat rings.

Either way, I don’t have a problem selling them but I’d like some sort of trade in or higher price per ring.

Saint.5647:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Other characters you have? – they don’t drop enough to make a huge difference.

What are you on about? Just in the last month I’ve sold off another two bank tabs of them. Most end up being Band of The Brotherhood, Ralena/Vassar’s Band, and Khilbron’s Phylactery.

I have all the gear I need for my other characters and I have no need for bad drops like those rings. For all the countless rings I’ve gotten, I’ve had to trade relics for the stats that I actually wanted. It seems the drop rate is skewed in favor of trash stat rings.

Either way, I don’t have a problem selling them but I’d like some sort of trade in or higher price per ring.

It’s not biased towards trash stat rings. I assume each stat distribution is just as likely as any other, it’s just that most people are only interested in 1 or 2 of them.

Yeah, it really isn’t equal though. Not even close to as likely. I think I’ve gotten maybe 3 useful rings out of banks tabs on banks tabs full.

There are a few rings that seem to drop more frequently than others.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ascended Trinkets are better than Ascended armor or weapon – they give you the most boost for the buck, as it were. I think they are fin the way they are.

Not really. Yes if you are not considering the gem slot in exotic. But overall stats only give the 10% gain as all other ascended unless I’m mistaken.

Meadfreek.6789:

Saylu.8271:

Meadfreek.6789:

Saylu.8271:

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Why shouldn’t they be profitable? Any other rarity of trinket is, to one extent or another. To paraphrase Taygus, at least put WvW-centric and Fractal-centric players on par with folks that speed run dungeons over and over.

Why unsellable? Accidentally vendoring an ascended piece of gear is the same as accidentally vendoring a legendary or expensive dye drop. Just be careful. And if you do accidentally vendor something you can buy it back if you catch it quick enough.

By your logic, running dungeons should drop ascended equipment as well. As it currently stand fractals of the mist is a good source for ascended equipment while other dungeons are not.

Ascended equipment are hard to craft, account bound and can’t be salvage and is sold for minimal price. Anet intention obviously isn’t for you to get those ascended equipment so that you can vendor them. Make them unsellable so people will get the idea.

“By my logic” ?

I don’t understand how you got that from what I said. I didn’t say a thing about expanding the ways anyone can get ascended trinkets. The current sources of ascended trinkets are just fine by me.

What I mean by comparing dungeon runs to Fractals or WvW is: Dungeons make a player good money and often green, yellow or orange gear that they can use or sell. Sometimes for quite a bit of gold. At the very least that player can salvage a blue, green, yellow or orange for mats that are useful in one way or another. Or they can put 4 similar pieces in the forge for a little pseudo-gambling entertainment. Or I suppose they could also sell them to an NPC if they don’t care about maximizing their money.

Ascended trinkets come from activities that are every bit as valid, difficult, intensive and time consuming as dungeons. A player can use them (maybe), sell them for the price of a couple teleports across the map or…..well, they might make a nice paperweight or doorstop.

It just strikes me as wrong that the “most powerful and exclusive” trinkets in the game are often the most useless.

Personally I’d love it if they were salvageable for anything from (too common IMO) bloodstone dust or a chance for dark matter, empy fragment and/or dragonite or a rare chance at a deldrimor ingot or spiritwood/damask. (Even though the last two would be a bit illogical). I have five 80s, all with all the ascended trinkets I need and then some. But I’d love to turn unused ascended trinkets into mats towards my ascended armor sets.

You wanted different activities to be on par on each other. Fractals have a chance to drop ascended equipment and dungeons has better gold reward. If you want fractals to have both ascended equipment and gold reward, it would make dungeons obsolete and pointless to run dungeons. To make it fair, either increase gold rewards in fractals and allow ascended equipment to drop in dungeon or remove ascended equipment drop from fractals and increase the gold reward in fractals. So which option do you want?

Saylu.8271:

Meadfreek.6789:

Saylu.8271:

Meadfreek.6789:

Saylu.8271:

Selling ascended trinkets shouldn’t be meant to be profitable. They should change them to be unsellable before people start complaining that they accidentally sold their ascended trinkets.

Why shouldn’t they be profitable? Any other rarity of trinket is, to one extent or another. To paraphrase Taygus, at least put WvW-centric and Fractal-centric players on par with folks that speed run dungeons over and over.

Why unsellable? Accidentally vendoring an ascended piece of gear is the same as accidentally vendoring a legendary or expensive dye drop. Just be careful. And if you do accidentally vendor something you can buy it back if you catch it quick enough.

By your logic, running dungeons should drop ascended equipment as well. As it currently stand fractals of the mist is a good source for ascended equipment while other dungeons are not.

Ascended equipment are hard to craft, account bound and can’t be salvage and is sold for minimal price. Anet intention obviously isn’t for you to get those ascended equipment so that you can vendor them. Make them unsellable so people will get the idea.

“By my logic” ?

I don’t understand how you got that from what I said. I didn’t say a thing about expanding the ways anyone can get ascended trinkets. The current sources of ascended trinkets are just fine by me.

What I mean by comparing dungeon runs to Fractals or WvW is: Dungeons make a player good money and often green, yellow or orange gear that they can use or sell. Sometimes for quite a bit of gold. At the very least that player can salvage a blue, green, yellow or orange for mats that are useful in one way or another. Or they can put 4 similar pieces in the forge for a little pseudo-gambling entertainment. Or I suppose they could also sell them to an NPC if they don’t care about maximizing their money.

Ascended trinkets come from activities that are every bit as valid, difficult, intensive and time consuming as dungeons. A player can use them (maybe), sell them for the price of a couple teleports across the map or…..well, they might make a nice paperweight or doorstop.

It just strikes me as wrong that the “most powerful and exclusive” trinkets in the game are often the most useless.

Personally I’d love it if they were salvageable for anything from (too common IMO) bloodstone dust or a chance for dark matter, empy fragment and/or dragonite or a rare chance at a deldrimor ingot or spiritwood/damask. (Even though the last two would be a bit illogical). I have five 80s, all with all the ascended trinkets I need and then some. But I’d love to turn unused ascended trinkets into mats towards my ascended armor sets.

You wanted different activities to be on par on each other. Fractals have a chance to drop ascended equipment and dungeons has better gold reward. If you want fractals to have both ascended equipment and gold reward, it would make dungeons obsolete and pointless to run dungeons. To make it fair, either increase gold rewards in fractals and allow ascended equipment to drop in dungeon or remove ascended equipment drop from fractals and increase the gold reward in fractals. So which option do you want?

Actually my OP was from a WvW-centric POV. I also do lots of open world PvE and world boss events. My fractal level is probably under 5. I haven’t done one since shortly after they went live. It’s not really my thing. But a few other people mentioned fractals and the thread took off mostly in that direction. I do dungeons if friends need another person for the group. But I’m not a big dungeon player either.

I don’t know about “fair”. My old highschool teacher said something about “fair” that I probably shouldn’t repeat here. To paraphrase him “it’s just a word in the dictionary”.

I just want to do the same thing with my drops as players of any other game mode. I.E. if I have no need for them myself: either salvage them for level appropriate mats, throw 4 into the mystic forge for a chance of something useful or sell them for a reasonable return. Vendoring them for a decent price would be fine. Hence the title of my OP. (Under 5 silver is not my definition of a “decent price” when almost any colored drop brings a higher return…often a much higher return, albeit usually from the BLTP.)

I can see where Anet might not want us to flood the BLTP with ascended trinkets, to maintain an air of exclusivity and not trivialize the laurels many of us paid for them. But in most cases it’s the exact opposite. Unless it’s the stat combo a player needs and the only copy of that trinket they’ve ever gotten they’re worse than gray vendor trash. At least gray vendor trash doesn’t take up a spot in a WvW rank chest.

I only have 1 toon in full ascended gear. I hope the drop rate isn’t nerfed as once I have the time to level my fractle level so they start to drop for me I can kit out my alts. As for the sell price. Yeah they could be worth more.

Just remember, just because you get awesome drops and have the time to play a lot(I’m guessing when I say this) but I for one don’t get to play as much as I like and am way behind on something’s. So what ever your thoughts as on ascended rings or anything else for that matter, don’t ask for the drop rate to be nerfed. It’s kinda unfair of the people who start playing after you do, or don’t have as much time to play as others.

And then they increased it to 6 silver…