Incredibly low player skill population?

Incredibly low player skill population?

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Posted by: Devourment.2987

Devourment.2987

Iv’e been playing for about 3 weeks now and out of any MMO iv’e ever played it seems like GW2 has the lowest skilled players per the population, people who just generally don’t know how to maneuver properly, pull trains of mobs into people or just ignore quest objectives and die constantly.

PvP is a god kitten nightmare the vast, vast majority of games iv’e played have nearly always had someone afk, and the rest of the team ignore objectives and just feed the opposing team.

Is there something i’m missing here, do you HAVE to play with a guild or a group to get things done? or is there some magical thing i’m not seeing or some sort of system in place for new players?

Really have no idea whats going on, the amount of noobs i seem to be with at any given time seems really disproportionate to any other game iv’e played.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Not sure what objectives you are trying to get done outside of PvP, but most of Tyria is quite easily soloed.

Even a lot of the newest maps can be soloed, with the exception of some Group Events, of course.

It may just be a matter of time for newer players, such as yourself.

Welcome to Tyria, and good luck.

Edit: Removed a superfluous word…not sure where that came from. Lol.

(edited by Inculpatus cedo.9234)

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Posted by: Shivan.9438

Shivan.9438

Open world PvE enables players to put in zero effort. When you have 25 people killing a boss, 5 or 6 being AFK makes no difference.

Speaking of AFK, it’s apparently not a banworthy offense as it’s on the rise. This takes no skill to do either.

Your take on “Good” or “Skilled” players raid and do high level fractals. They group up with others and stay out of open world PvE.

EotM and WvW is all about zerging. Again, no effort.

A lot of people farm now because they want to buy a legendary or get full ascended. Farming takes no skill.

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Posted by: Devourment.2987

Devourment.2987

Hmmm, i’m still not exactly sure where “End game” is in Guild wars, at the moment i’m more interested in PvP, still doesn’t answer my question though, surely the highest concentration i.e the vast majority can’t all be doing Fractals and raids.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

This game had 4 years of easy, no effort PvE. The mobs have a couple of skills, they attack slowly and the tells are when the mob makes a movement instead of on a bar above the mob (so if there’s a lot of particles you can’t even see the mob much less what attack is coming). On top of this there is no tutorials on how to combine skills to get combo effects. If you only need to auto attack to win and you can get to and through 80 without even knowing about the existence of combo fields you’re going to have an average low skilled player base.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

The game was designed to attract player outside the usual gamers, so it attracts people with a wide variety of skill levels. Harder content requires players to “get gud” but most of the game isn’t “harder content”.

As an unfair analogy, I don’t expect the local steakhouse to have great seafood. So if your goal is finding players with high skill, head for the parts of this game that require high skill (or to other games that require it).

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

Unlike most MMO, people can’t rely on gear to counter the difficulty, which makes bad players more obvious. Bad players are however the majority in every MMO, as most are the casual players that only play for maybe an hour a day on average and simply want to jump in and play. Compared to other MMOs however, GW2 is basically Dark Souls in comparison, where regular enemies are capable of killing you within seconds.

Failing at PvP objectives happens in every MMO, as the new, the casuals and the 1vs1 me crowd are more focused on killing than winning. For SPvP, don’t forget that the lower ranks are going to be full of newer players and that most people are likely coming from non-action standstill games like WoW.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

This game had 4 years of easy, no effort PvE.

That’s not 100% true because some of the LS1 mobs, and other mobs that appeared after release, like young karka, were actually more challenging opponents. It was sad that the LS1 mobs were removed so this illusion that the game “was always easy” is what remained, but truth is, even during LS1 there were more than enough challenging open world pve mobs in the game.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

This game had 4 years of easy, no effort PvE.

That’s not 100% true because some of the LS1 mobs, and other mobs that appeared after release, like young karka, were actually more challenging opponents. It was sad that the LS1 mobs were removed so this illusion that the game “was always easy” is what remained, but truth is, even during LS1 there were more than enough challenging open world pve mobs in the game.

If people can get to and through level 80 and not know what cc means or how to do combo fields because they’ve never needed to know all during their leveling and on the core level 80 maps then it’s true enough. And some mobs in some events some years ago that not all people did is not a major consideration.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: abaddon.3290

abaddon.3290

On top of this there is no tutorials on how to combine skills to get combo effects.

100% not true at all. QT is a fine example.

im bad at sarcasm

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

Hmmm, i’m still not exactly sure where “End game” is in Guild wars, at the moment i’m more interested in PvP, still doesn’t answer my question though, surely the highest concentration i.e the vast majority can’t all be doing Fractals and raids.

I know little about PvP, but my understanding is that it has a rank system. Thus if you play only unranked or low rank tiers, you’ll find mostly players who can’t reach the higher tiers.

Fractals are divided into tiers 1-4, with 100 total fractal levels. The master tier is sufficiently difficult that running PUGs is discouraged if you expect a smooth run.

Raids are raids. You aren’t likely to get very far (if anywhere!) without a dedicated group. It isn’t impossible, but the difficulty level is such that a group full of inexperienced and/or unskilled players is unlikely to beat it. So attempting to form a pickup group without being at least somewhat selective in who you bring along isn’t likely to work out.

As for the rest of the game (open world, unranked PvP, WvW, lower tier fractals, pickup dungeons/fractals/raids)? Yeah, you’re going to find a wide variety of player types, but mostly what you aren’t going to find are the best of the best. Why? Because they’re all doing organized raids, master tier fractals, and ranked PvP.

You’re obviously very good at the game or you wouldn’t trash talk the population the way you do. You should have no trouble getting into these activities if you invest some time into it. Good luck!

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

Unlike most MMO, people can’t rely on gear to counter the difficulty, which makes bad players more obvious. Bad players are however the majority in every MMO, as most are the casual players that only play for maybe an hour a day on average and simply want to jump in and play. Compared to other MMOs however, GW2 is basically Dark Souls in comparison, where regular enemies are capable of killing you within seconds.

Failing at PvP objectives happens in every MMO, as the new, the casuals and the 1vs1 me crowd are more focused on killing than winning. For SPvP, don’t forget that the lower ranks are going to be full of newer players and that most people are likely coming from non-action standstill games like WoW.

That’s also a good point. In WoW you can fairly easily outgear most of the content that isn’t in the current raid tier without any particular skill. For instance, in their first expansion they introduced heroic mode dungeons that were actually quite challenging. The dungeons featured large pulls with enemies that could easily 1- or 2-shot non-tanks and even hit hard enough that no 5-man geared tank could last very long without CC support to take some of the pressure off.

However, once the first additional raid tier was introduced, it made it significantly easier to conquer these dungeons. They became easier and easier as far superior gear became available.

After the first expansion, they made it even worse. With WotLK 5-man dungeons were tuned down quite a lot such that tanks were able to easily tank large pulls without CC support and gearing beyond 5-man content was made even easier.

They also allow massive gear disparity in PvP, which seems completely ridiculous to me. Who needs skill when you can just outgear your opponents, right?

In any event, I can’t speak to what WoW is like now, but being that many MMOs out there try to carbon copy their design decisions, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that this extends to many of the available alternatives. Who needs skill when you have gear? Not in GW2. And perhaps that’s part of the reason you see so many “bad” players here. They can’t just gear their way past challenges as they can in other games.

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Posted by: Ameepa.6793

Ameepa.6793

You don’t really interact with others in general outworld PVE in other MMOs like you do here so maybe you just notice that better.

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Posted by: Devourment.2987

Devourment.2987

Im also guessing warrior isn’t a class that can force wins in pvp, seem really underpowered compared to everyone.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

On top of this there is no tutorials on how to combine skills to get combo effects.

100% not true at all. QT is a fine example.

(a) I’m 90% Fleshie meant in-game tutorials
(b) I think QT runs a great website and I find it of great value. However, I can guarantee that it’s not helpful to everyone. It works best for those who are looking to get better; it’s not as helpful for the people mentioned by the OP. That is, it assumes a basic level of familiarity with typical MMO mechanics and that isn’t common with players newer to the genre.

Of course there are resources out there, including the wiki, Dulfy, QT, and others. That doesn’t mean that people will know that they need such resources.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

On top of this there is no tutorials on how to combine skills to get combo effects.

100% not true at all. QT is a fine example.

Nope. Players teaching other players are not tutorials. If it were you could say I’m incorrect because once you saw one player laying down combo fields for another player and saying that was a tutorial. Obviously I meant in game by the game tutorials, not a web site.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Odin the exiled.5764

Odin the exiled.5764

There used to be hints that helped you understand combo fields, etc. As for CC there was no need for it in pve until they added the breakbar so of course players not familar with the term are not going to know it.

As for pvp, the skill level gets higher once your into ranked matches. For some reason in unranked players don’t care to learn what to do, they’d rather just kill or afk, or test out builds/new classes. So the “skill level” is going to be down in there cuz of that, but once you start doing ranked matches, most players understand their roles and to hold 2 points and fighting on the point, plus using meta builds.

Other then that id say it’s the classes, some are low skill classes where others are high skill classes. Like thief i am HORRIBLE on my thief lol i do ok for most solo pve stuff, but im not skilled enough to solo a dungeon. Even wvw and pvp on my thief im not that great at killing ppl compares to my mesmer. Which becomes part of the problem ele’s and engineer’s are another great example they’re both fun to play but they really require a lot of skill for solo’ing harder content or pvp/wvw stuff. But since they’re fun to play lots of different skill leveled players are going to use them.

Only thing you can really do, is try to make friends/guilds to run higher skilled stuff to match your own skill level, so you can avoid the other’s as much as possible and stick with it and don’t let the lower skilled players get you down.

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

Game has poor balance (elites dominate)
Incomplete skills sets(no illusion elite for instance)
Not to mention many niche and near useless skills in the game(Arcane Thievery)
Ignored play modes(underwater)

It’s not the new players fault that the skill level is so low in the game

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Hmmm, i’m still not exactly sure where “End game” is in Guild wars, at the moment i’m more interested in PvP, still doesn’t answer my question though, surely the highest concentration i.e the vast majority can’t all be doing Fractals and raids.

Due to the pretty blatantly systematic destruction of most of the skilled play requirements from PvP and WvW with the expansion in favor of the PvE crowd, most of the active competitive population outright quit.

While PvE has always had more players in general, the disparity has never been more apparent.

Quite frankly, the highest concentration of active players is in fact doing open world bag farming in the highly-profitable expansion zones, fractals, and raids.

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Posted by: pyrocyborg.4162

pyrocyborg.4162

Im also guessing warrior isn’t a class that can force wins in pvp, seem really underpowered compared to everyone.

I can’t agree with that. I’m fairly new in GW2 sPvP (rank 31… lol) and in this game mode, I only play Warrior.

Due to poor placement match (I started the minute Season 5 started and played with a friend of mine who was, let’s say, unable to play his necro the right way), I was ranked in an abysmal 600 or so rating (i.e. low bronze).

With time, I managed to get to gold. Now, I don’t play as much as I would want to (between 3 and 5 matches per week, if that), but I think I could manage to make my way near platinum rank before the end of the season if I really wanted to.

Now, how’s the warrior? I would say that it’s a very forgiving class with a great deal of support skills. I even make some crappy mistakes when I’m sleepy and still manage to get away with it! Many classes and builds do not get that kind of treatment: one or two mistakes in my rating and you’re dead. Now, how is it in platinum and legendary? I can’t comment, but I would expect a good warrior to be able to pull his own.

Every build will have it’s strength and weaknesses: you can’t expect to be able to kill everyone every single time. You need to know when to fight, and when to back off.

(edited by pyrocyborg.4162)

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Posted by: pyrocyborg.4162

pyrocyborg.4162

Now, concerning the main issue: I tend to agree with you. A lot of players lack skill and do not wish to develop it any further: they want to farm easier Fractals or dungeons and aren’t really looking for more challenging content, but we could say the same thing for almost every recent MMORPG.

A friend of mine is exactly like that : we can’t take her in a competitve PvP game: she’s a sitting duck and would get wrecked because she’s a clicker and can’t (or won’t) use WASD on her keyboard. She manage to do fine in most PvE content prior to HoT, but while she still gets killed often in HoT maps, dungeons and fractals, she do not really care about it. That’s how she play and it’s fine by me.

As gear quality isn’t really linked to harder content (e.g. you can easily get exotic gear everywhere which is almost as good as ascended), it’s not mandatory for every player to get into raids or higher fractals to get some gear. In the end, they play the way they like and unlike WoW players, they do not feel entitled to “Purple” gear. In WoW, they had to make entry level tourist raid mode after a lot of the player base cried because they couldn’t get their epic gear. Less likely to happen here.

As people said before, if you want some challenge in PvE, try to join a fractal or raid guild or gather a few friends. For PvP: you have to be able to get your way out of bronze and silver rating to see less afkers and cannon fodder.

(edited by pyrocyborg.4162)

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Posted by: penelopehannibal.8947

penelopehannibal.8947

Iv’e been playing for about 3 weeks now and out of any MMO iv’e ever played it seems like GW2 has the lowest skilled players per the population, people who just generally don’t know how to maneuver properly, pull trains of mobs into people or just ignore quest objectives and die constantly.

Three weeks and you’re an expert I assume?

Blood & Merlot [Wine]

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Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

Unlike most MMO, people can’t rely on gear to counter the difficulty, which makes bad players more obvious. Bad players are however the majority in every MMO, as most are the casual players that only play for maybe an hour a day on average and simply want to jump in and play. Compared to other MMOs however, GW2 is basically Dark Souls in comparison, where regular enemies are capable of killing you within seconds.

That is just all over the kitten place. One of the vets around matriarch smacked me for 14k damage. The attack had such little about of visuals that I thought I was hit by one of the wyverns that flies and around until I checked the combat log. Similar thing happened with an ooze around a rift in bloodstone fen. Not even an indicator that they were using a skill, just hit for more than my max HP.

HoT mobs have some of the sloppiest design and implementation. Comparing to Dark Souls is probably not appropriate although I’ve never played that so maybe it has sloppy stuff too.

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Posted by: cadmiumgreen.8712

cadmiumgreen.8712

In the end, they play the way they like and unlike WoW players, they do not feel entitled to “Purple” gear. In WoW, they had to make entry level tourist raid mode after a lot of the player base cried because they couldn’t get their epic gear. Less likely to happen here.

How about some context for this passage here:
In the expansion the ‘entitled’ got their ‘tourist raids’ you could purchase a near full set of purples, including tier, from points gained by killing bosses in both raids and five man dungeons. At exalted reputation vendors would sell you purples for a handful of gold. You got the rep mostly by running those dungeons that gave you points for the other vendors. These purples were the same level as those dropped in the launch raids.

That was launch. The first patch featured a two five man remakes of old raids which used to require 10-20 players. Purples dropped from every boss, though they were 6 ilvls lower than what was in the current raids. These dungeons were slightly difficult, but still casual content.

The final patch of the expansion is the one that brought raid finder. This same patch also brought three cakewalk five man dungeons that were mostly about story and looking pretty. They dropped purples of the same level as the second raid tier of the expansion.

There are a lot of reasons why WoW would introduce raid finder. Like trying to get more than about 10%-15% of their population to do the content that dominated post-launch development. But because the unworthy were selfishly crying to the devs about how entitled they were to purples is probably really low on that list. Purples were plentiful from other sources.

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Posted by: Bearhugger.4326

Bearhugger.4326

It may be worth noting that they originally made world PvE harder in Heart of Thorns, but they got a lot of backlash for it, and then MO took over, they toned down the difficulty so the HoT maps.

As long as bad players can fail your events I agree with the devs about making world PvE easy though, because that’s a huge source of conflict if a bad players comes to your event and fails it through being clueless and it’s clear, from nearly all game design decision they have taken in world PvE, that the devs want to avoid player conflicts. They don’t always succeed, (ie: event trains purposely failing events for faster repop and OMG the hateful whispers will storm upon you should you succeed one such event…) but that seems to be what they are going for. Meeting another player in world PvE is rarely bad news in GW2, which is not something I can say for a lot of other MMOs.

But hey, GW2 is reputed to be one of these MMOs with a nice and welcoming community. I’d bet this has something to do with it.

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Posted by: Vukorep.3081

Vukorep.3081

people who just generally don’t know how to maneuver properly, pull trains of mobs into people or just ignore quest objectives and die constantly.

PvP is a god kitten nightmare the vast, vast majority of games iv’e played have nearly always had someone afk, and the rest of the team ignore objectives and just feed the opposing team.

Gw2 is a game where you cant compensate your lack of skill via gear grinding, and player skill is indeed required in this game.
Even in open world pve where “everything goes” people usually go full glass cannon on all professions regardless of their skill level often resulting in them getting downed more often than other playres.

This is specially true inside dungeons and fractals, and sometimes in events that spawn a lot of mobs.

As for pvp, lots of people are trying out pvp for the first time nowdays cause of the shiny new ascended rewards as well as raw gold profit. The skill cap is increased cause you dont fight moas that attack you once every 3 seconds anymore, you fight a coordinated team of 5 other players.

If youre new you might not know the layout of the map, the objectives, you probably dont know what other professions can do with their builds, heck some people dont even check what kind of meta battle build they copy pasted from the web they wanna play with on their “5 weeks old main character”.

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Posted by: ProtoGunner.4953

ProtoGunner.4953

Yeah it’s horrible. There are many open world players who only use skill 1 and/or don’t use weapon swap at all, rangers who use a longbow and point blank shot the mob out of your AoE just be cause the skill is on cooldown. They don’t even think what they do.

‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong

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Posted by: Hoaxintelligence.4628

Hoaxintelligence.4628

Im also guessing warrior isn’t a class that can force wins in pvp, seem really underpowered compared to everyone.

Maybe you need to learn 2 play with it first, cause warriors are strong.

Sît[MII]Ultimate Dominator
U N D E R W O R L D
W v W-r o a m e r

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Posted by: Henry.5713

Henry.5713

Mastering any aspect of Guild Wars 2 can be really deep and take a lot of effort and dedication. There are many good or even great players out there. The combat system is easy to learn but rather difficult to master.

However, one of the fundamental design choices was to make the game as casual friendly as possible. The game does indeed attract that type of player as well as many new players in general. It is not filled with veterans but rather has a high rate of new players coming in every day. The entire Open World is designed to be fun for everyone. This would make it appear that there are only lesser skilled players out there, as that is where you’d spend most of your time having only played for three weeks yourself.

You will meet more skilled players more frequently as soon as you get into doing instanced PvE, including high level Fractals and raids, as well as high ranked PvP. Those are also the players who rarely play Open World content.
Although, I would be rather surprised if you yourself would be up to scratch to play at that level after only three weeks.

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Posted by: Dark Lurker.2781

Dark Lurker.2781

PvE : You can level up to 80 without efforts by killing yellow mobs instead of red ones (more XP). This means CC is not required and mobs lack of combat skills make them easy to fight. To complete faster leveling, combine with exploration… The result can be seen when people run with haste collecting materials here and there also, not doing anything about mobs running after them. I prefer making a good build to solo everything, but, like everyone else, collecting mats will be pain if you kill everything on the way, specially if you are already 80.

PvP and WvW : Leveling up to 80 is not required to participate into PvP and WvW because you’re nerfed to 80 anyway. The problem is, you can’t make a good build out of this and you surely be killed is you try against a normal 80 with specs on. It also means lack of experience because the person entering those area with a low level character may not have experienced the dangers of high level territories.

Fractals : At least, Fractals needs to be 80 to participate, but builds required must be adequate to play into it. A person doing 40th level easy (with a moderate team) don’t have to avoid all fire even so no one using reflect and don’t have to jump at all when waves come at him. But some of them think they may do 70. A good player can do it (with an experienced team), avoiding fires if no reflect (but usually someone knows it’s better to have it) and especially jumping on time to avoid waves or you could be doomed. It’s an example of what’s usually happens in Fractals.

But all of this is to say I do understand the pain caused by noobs. Some having potential, but not enough experience to do what they are doing atm . The system admit them, so they do it…

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Posted by: polarbear.2497

polarbear.2497

Fractals : At least, Fractals needs to be 80 to participate…

Just for accuracy, in fact you DO NOT need to be level 80 to participate in fractals. The player is automatically scaled up to level 80 when entering the Fractal lobby.

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Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

Yeah it’s horrible. There are many open world players who only use skill 1 and/or don’t use weapon swap at all, rangers who use a longbow and point blank shot the mob out of your AoE just be cause the skill is on cooldown. They don’t even think what they do.

Better to have someone who only autoattacks than someone who spams all their skills on cooldown.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

In most MMOs PvE is easy. Most MMOs have players of all skill levels but most MMOs don’t have content in PvE that requires skill so maybe it’s harder to notice whether a player is skilled or not.

From what I’ve heard, most people don’t report AFK players in PvP so they shouldn’t complain about them.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Drakz.7051

Drakz.7051

People just want to sit around letting auto attack to do the job for them and reap 100% of the rewards.

But that is always going to be a problem for Anet, maps with huge numbers of players means any difficult content they make isn’t actually difficult because you just throw more players at them, and if they try to implement a change that makes them work more they won’t do it or complain (Look at all the HoT maps and tell me which one is done constantly due to ease and rewards)

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Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

People just want to sit around letting auto attack to do the job for them and reap 100% of the rewards.

But that is always going to be a problem for Anet, maps with huge numbers of players means any difficult content they make isn’t actually difficult because you just throw more players at them, and if they try to implement a change that makes them work more they won’t do it or complain (Look at all the HoT maps and tell me which one is done constantly due to ease and rewards)

There are actually a bunch of poorly scaling events where throwing more people at it will make it more difficult. Possibly something OP is running into since OP seems to thing groups are mandatory. That might have lead to trying to gather more people around …

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Posted by: ugrakarma.9416

ugrakarma.9416

i have a friend thats plays in my house, i tried get him to pvp, to better partnership,(ofc, better real time communication, by the way hes on my side), but hes get upset when i tried explian how important know switch weapons, and hes said never will do pvp again. =/

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

Im also guessing warrior isn’t a class that can force wins in pvp, seem really underpowered compared to everyone.

Warrior is killing it in PvP at the moment so much to a point that people are calling it OP….

You can’t call everyone noobs when you ask something like this either…

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

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Posted by: Samnang.1879

Samnang.1879

Yes.
Joining a guild is one way to get things done efficiently. The game has WvW guild, PvP guild or PvE guilds. You just need to find one that suits.

Please nerf bag types instead of class skills!

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Posted by: azureai.9764

azureai.9764

Iv’e been playing for about 3 weeks now ….

After three weeks, you’ve decided everyone in the game is a low skill player? That’s gotta be some kind of record.