Guild Wars 2

Seriously, I keep seeing all these complaints about a content gate. A content gate implies that you can only access certain content with the new gear. This isn’t the case. See my explanation.

• The dungeon has 9 fractals.
• Every run you do you have a chance to get 3 of those fractals randomly.
• Every successful run increases the difficulty.
• Every even numbered difficulty has special dragon type boss fight.
• EVENTUALLY as you increase in difficulty you start needing infusions.

• All 9 fractals are available to all players from the beginning of the dungeon. Whether you get them or not is chance.
• The mechanics will not change as difficulty increases.
• The dungeons will not change as difficulty increases.
• There will not suddenly be a fractal number 10 at level 50 difficulty that no one else can access.

Even if it only takes 3 runs to reach the difficulty where infusions are required, that means you have a chance to experience all 9 fractals. If you fail, which obviously you would since you need infusions, then the next time you go in, you get another chance to experience any of the 9 fractals.

What this means: ALL the content is available to you regardless of whether you have infusions/Ascended gear. Going up in difficulty does not open new content, it only increases the mob numbers/stats.

Here are some sources about the dungeons before someone goes, “source nao!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/12/guild-wars-2s-lost-shores-content-primer/
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/6882/A-Peek-into-the-November-Update.html/page/1

If all content is available without the new gear, then there is effectively no content gate.

Level 50 difficulty level? I hope there aren’t that many. These dungeons better be super fun if we’re doing them 50×.

so for it to not be gear gating:

I could hop in the instance, at a relatively high lvl of difficulty, with all my current exotics and be at zero disadvantage?

Wasselin.1235:

Level 50 difficulty level? I hope there aren’t that many. These dungeons better be super fun if we’re doing them 50×.

Theoretically the dungeon is said to be infinite. You can do it as many times as you want.

There are at least 84 different combinations, not including order. Each individual fractal will be the same each time, but there are up to 84 combinations of fractals.

If you add in that every even difficulty is a special boss encounter added onto the fractal that gives at least 168 different possibilities if there is only one special boss.

Supposedly you can continue this dungeon forever as long as you are strong enough to continue.

Djavlas.8249:

so for it to not be gear gating:

I could hop in the instance, at a relatively high lvl of difficulty, with all my current exotics and be at zero disadvantage?

I never said that. People are complaining about CONTENT gating.

This means you can hop into any fractal with your exotics and be at zero disadvantage.

Difficulty is separate from content.
To an extent how far you get in difficulty will also be based on skill.

Yes eventually everyone has to have infusions to continue increasing difficulty, but the difficulty level at which they will need it will be determined by player ability in conjunction with the agony mechanic.

Some people aren’t going to be able to stay alive at 25% agony mechanic effect, while other people will be able to maintain until 35% agony mechanic effect.

However the CONTENT is available to all.

It’s the same as people WITH infusions are going to get scaled out too. At 75% mechanic some players might start hitting a wall where they can’t continue, while other players with infusions can continue until a 90% mechanic affect. Skill is still a qualifier here, it’s not all about gear like everyone thinks.

Even a fully geared team WILL hit a wall, it’s an infinite dungeon, eventually now matter how much gear you pile on you are GOING to fail. Does that mean that the content is gated against infusion/ascended gear players? No.

Djavlas.8249:

so for it to not be gear gating:

I could hop in the instance, at a relatively high lvl of difficulty, with all my current exotics and be at zero disadvantage?

Basically yes. Eventually you’ll reach a point after so many clears were the scaling difficulty will overwhelm you. That’s going to happen with or without ascended gear. But when it comes to the content within the dungeons: the sub-dungeons, the bosses, the loot, you’ll be able to see and get all of that.

Vasham.2408:

Djavlas.8249:

so for it to not be gear gating:

I could hop in the instance, at a relatively high lvl of difficulty, with all my current exotics and be at zero disadvantage?

Basically yes. Eventually you’ll reach a point after so many clears were the scaling difficulty will overwhelm you. That’s going to happen with or without ascended gear. But when it comes to the content within the dungeons: the sub-dungeons, the bosses, the loot, you’ll be able to see and get all of that.

Exactly! Thank you short sweet and to the point!

Vasham.2408:

Djavlas.8249:

so for it to not be gear gating:

I could hop in the instance, at a relatively high lvl of difficulty, with all my current exotics and be at zero disadvantage?

Basically yes. Eventually you’ll reach a point after so many clears were the scaling difficulty will overwhelm you. That’s going to happen with or without ascended gear. But when it comes to the content within the dungeons: the sub-dungeons, the bosses, the loot, you’ll be able to see and get all of that.

Thanks! that’s what i was looking for. (not like that other reply lol)

now if they just get rid of the base stat increase ill be all peachy

Difficult to say how it will work out.
Most probably the deeper you go the better the loot will be, and also where the ascension gear will start to become a necessity.
Although you can experience the dungeon without ascension gear, it will be a necessity to join a pug that wants to go to the deepest chambers (for probably the best loot (although this is not confirmed, only what I think is most likely)).

It is gated content. Difficulty is still content and you won’t have access to that difficulty unless you have certain gear.

Your skill as a player does not play any role in this situation. Without infusions protecting you against agony, you will not be able to complete higher difficulty levels.

Djavlas.8249:

Vasham.2408:

Djavlas.8249:

so for it to not be gear gating:

I could hop in the instance, at a relatively high lvl of difficulty, with all my current exotics and be at zero disadvantage?

Basically yes. Eventually you’ll reach a point after so many clears were the scaling difficulty will overwhelm you. That’s going to happen with or without ascended gear. But when it comes to the content within the dungeons: the sub-dungeons, the bosses, the loot, you’ll be able to see and get all of that.

Thanks! that’s what i was looking for. (not like that other reply lol)

now if they just get rid of the base stat increase ill be all peachy

The stat increases don’t really worry me. As of the patch it will be three slots you can fill; two rings and the back slot. We have no idea how hard ascended gear will be to acquire so there’s no use worrying about it. The betting man in me would assume it’s a drop off the mega bosses in Fractals, the ones that spawn every other clear.

I’d argue against the notion made by krookie that higher difficulty/higher numbers over the same mechanics=fresh content.

If the fractals are truly as zax describes, then yes it’s a content gate, but it’s a necessity to allow this “endless” feel they are going for.

Who knows, maybe at some point in the future some new build (or even an exploit) will be discovered to push the fractals beyond its internal “highest difficulty.”

krookie.6378:

It is gated content. Difficulty is still content and you won’t have access to that difficulty unless you have certain gear.

Your skill as a player does not play any role in this situation. Without infusions protecting you against agony, you will not be able to complete higher difficulty levels.

Depending on how well you play, with infusions protecting you against agony you may not be able to complete higher levels. Skill is still involved. Agony is a weeding mechanic for both exotic players and ascended players, the only difference is where you get weeded out.

Some people if placed in a dungeon that caused a perma bleed effect wouldn’t be able to complete dungeons they’ve done 100 times. Some people would be able to go in, and get through it just fine. That’s skill. Eventually if the bleed effect were increased to high, all the players would start dying, this is where the infusion comes in. But just because they have it, doesn’t mean they will be able to complete more levels, it just means it will be easier to do more levels.

Malchior.5042:

I’d argue against the notion made by krookie that higher difficulty/higher numbers over the same mechanics=fresh content.

If the fractals are truly as zax describes, then yes it’s a content gate, but it’s a necessity to allow this “endless” feel they are going for.

Who knows, maybe at some point in the future some new build (or even an exploit) will be discovered to push the fractals beyond its internal “highest difficulty.”

You get access to all 9 fractals at any difficulty. It’s completely random. I believe if you choose not to continue and come back, you would get the chance to restart at difficulty one, and once again get a random chance to play fractals you may have missed.

zaxziakohl.5243:

Depending on how well you play, with infusions protecting you against agony you may not be able to complete higher levels. Skill is still involved. Agony is a weeding mechanic for both exotic players and ascended players, the only difference is where you get weeded out.

That’s basically gating. With this gear, only your skill will matter. Without the gear your skill doesn’t matter.

The stat increases don’t really worry me. As of the patch it will be three slots you can fill; two rings and the back slot. We have no idea how hard ascended gear will be to acquire so there’s no use worrying about it. The betting man in me would assume it’s a drop off the mega bosses in Fractals, the ones that spawn every other clear.

the stat increase is the possible beginning of a gear treadmill, i’d rather not see it in there. honestly, difficulty in acquiring has nothing to do with it. i’d rather play to have fun, and not worry about having sub-optimal gear all the time.

krookie.6378:

It is gated content. Difficulty is still content and you won’t have access to that difficulty unless you have certain gear.

Your skill as a player does not play any role in this situation. Without infusions protecting you against agony, you will not be able to complete higher difficulty levels.

I’m gonna give this too you real simple. That’s not gated content. Gated content is when you put a wall between the players and the next part of the dungeon and say “in 4 weeks this will open.” Needing infusions to resist agony will only “gate” how long you can keep going in Fractals, which ultimately similar to resist stacking in endgame raiding in MMOs like WoW and Rift.

But there’s a difference here. In those MMOs if you lack resistances you can’t see further content past the resist check boss. Fractals will be fully available from day one without ascended gear to resist Agony. This is because the difficulty is a scaling mechanic, not a specific boss that says “You must have X Agony resistance to pass” like the other games.

Requiring agony resist in order to do higher difficulty is basically gating. it’s not a physical wall that opens in 4 weeks but it’s a wall nevertheless. A wall that opens as soon as you get a certain amount of agony resist.

Some people don’t consider it to be but higher difficulty is still content. With this new update, if your goal is beating the highest difficulty, you must have the new gear. If you don’t have it, you simply do not have access to this content.

It’s also counter to the whole design of this game. Right now, as a level 80, you pretty much have equal access to any portion of the game. After the update you will not.

BTW, resist stacking was one of the worst aspects of those MMOs. I thought that I was done with that “must have at least 500 fire resist” nonsense. I guess not.

krookie.6378:

Requiring agony resist in order to do higher difficulty is basically gating. it’s not a physical wall that opens in 4 weeks but it’s a wall nevertheless. A wall that opens as soon as you get a certain amount of agony resist.

Some people don’t consider it to be but higher difficulty is still content. With this new update, if your goal is beating the highest difficulty, you must have the new gear. If you don’t have it, you simply do not have access to this content.

It’s also counter to the whole design of this game. Right now, as a level 80, you pretty much have equal access to any portion of the game. After the update you will not.

BTW, resist stacking was one of the worst aspects of those MMOs. I thought that I was done with that “must have at least 500 fire resist” nonsense. I guess not.

Here’s the problem. The devs said “higher difficulty equals greater rewards” with regards to Fractals. But you look at it as if the higher difficulties will somehow drop better gear and that being unable to run higher difficulty fractals gates you from access to it. That’s how WoW does it, not GW2.

We don’t know WHAT you get from clearing Fractals, but it’s safe to assume that there’s only one level of ascended gear rather than WoW’s three levels of raid gear (LFR, normal, and heroic). It’s also safe to assume that the ascended gear will not drop in the dungeon proper since so far Arenanet has not handled dungeon rewards this way. Try to think a little before jumping to conclusions.

krookie.6378:

Requiring agony resist in order to do higher difficulty is basically gating. it’s not a physical wall that opens in 4 weeks but it’s a wall nevertheless. A wall that opens as soon as you get a certain amount of agony resist.

Some people don’t consider it to be but higher difficulty is still content. With this new update, if your goal is beating the highest difficulty, you must have the new gear. If you don’t have it, you simply do not have access to this content.

It’s also counter to the whole design of this game. Right now, as a level 80, you pretty much have equal access to any portion of the game. After the update you will not.

BTW, resist stacking was one of the worst aspects of those MMOs. I thought that I was done with that “must have at least 500 fire resist” nonsense. I guess not.

Well I have good news for you then. There is no highest difficulty, so no one will have that goal! It gets infinitely more difficult.

“ArenaNet’s Colin Johanson briefly introduced the brand-new dungeon as one that gets more challenging the farther in you go. Conventional wisdom would suggest that that’s nearly always the case, but Johanson left out a key detail: In the Fractals of the Mists dungeon, you can go indefinitely farther in.”

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/12/guild-wars-2s-lost-shores-content-primer/

This means that the ONLY goals of doing the dungeon, are to:
1. Experience the different mini-dungeons aka fractals (you can do this without infusions)
2. Get the new gear!

Since you can’t BEAT the dungeon, that’s not a possible goal.

also all players that knows how exotic are gamechanging for some classes compared torares in most cases (wvw and dungeons) knows that this gear is required…

Ok now some warrior will post here that he could do dungeons in masterwork…..because yeah they tested the game with warriors it seems considered for example elementalista get oneshot by most opponents unless they have SPECIFIC exotic gear…

so most classes will NEED the new jewels now, armors then….

Also if someone doesn t like dungeons he is completely cut out half game…..(i crafted my exotic set for example)……

Also this clearly says after this patch dungeon will be boring for “ascended equipped players”.

So i do not believ in the excuse playerbase needed grinding to not get bored -.-

LordByron.8369:

also all players that knows how exotic are gamechanging for some classes compared torares in most cases (wvw and dungeons) knows that this gear is required…

Ok now some warrior will post here that he could do dungeons in masterwork…..because yeah they tested the game with warriors it seems considered for example elementalista get oneshot by most opponents unless they have SPECIFIC exotic gear…

so most classes will NEED the new jewels now, armors then….

I’m an engineer and I used to do the same thing in masterworks I now do in an exotic/rare mix.

That’s not a warrior, as a matter of fact engi is one of the get 1 shotted and die classes….

Not to mention, they aren’t increasing the difficulty of anything else in the world, just the dungeon, so if it’s complete-able by everyone in exotics now, then it’s going to be after the release using the same gear….

And how is someone who doesn’t like dungeons being cut out from half the game?

People who only like pvp are cut from PvE content, but that’s a CHOICE. They can still play it. Same applies to this.

come with me in TA and i ll show you that one boss still oneshots me despite my tank build just because i didn t put ALL in toughness and vitality but just 75% of my equip (and NOT with an attack avoidable on reaction).

Even in normal pve the difference is basically between struggling with 2 mobs or being able to cather 15 at ORR and mass kill them.

So i am quite fed up with the excuse that SOME players thinks there is no difference….
Well some professions are equipment based you like it or not….

Wasselin.1235:

Level 50 difficulty level? I hope there aren’t that many. These dungeons better be super fun if we’re doing them 50×.

How is 50 times a lot?
If you want to do that in a week, yes, that’s a lot.

Realistically you do that 1-2x a week when a few friends or guildies ask about it, or just to do something while chatting. Tuhdah, half a year to a year and you are difficulty lvl50. That went faster than expected, right?

So the whole content we get after 3 months is a dungeon. Nice.

Vakirauta.6397:

So the whole content we get after 3 months is a dungeon. Nice.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/

Not just a dungeon. The dungeon is just a talking point right now.

Vasham.2408:

Vakirauta.6397:

So the whole content we get after 3 months is a dungeon. Nice.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/

Not just a dungeon. The dungeon is just a talking point right now.

Besides the events, there is a dungeon and new items that nobody wants in the game. And plus a new pvp map. Is that all? Am I missing a real content?

Vakirauta.6397:

Vasham.2408:

Vakirauta.6397:

So the whole content we get after 3 months is a dungeon. Nice.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/

Not just a dungeon. The dungeon is just a talking point right now.

Besides the events, there is a dungeon and new items that nobody wants in the game. And plus a new pvp map. Is that all? Am I missing a real content?

Eventually, players will learn how to penetrate the Karka’s armor and this will bring players to the Karka’s home turf on a new island in the Sea of Sorrows called The Lost Shores. While the Karka don’t originally come from The Lost Shores, they have a significant presence on the island, having settled there for some time. The island itself will be a level 80 zone, but ArenaNet will have a system in place to sidekick lower leveled players up so they can take part in the event. However, it’s important to note that the Lost Shores island will remain as a level 80 zone once the weekend event is completed but players will no longer be sidekicked up after this point.
Of course, the Lost Shores will also be host to the standard fare stuff players can expect to find on any of Guild Wars 2’s explorable maps. Players will find myriad events, jumping puzzles, resource nodes, and more on the Lost Shores. ArenaNet also made note that some of the events on the island will take a different turn from some of the typical events in Guild Wars 2 by allowing players to make a permanent impact on the landscape.

Forgot that bit.

zaxziakohl.5243:

Vakirauta.6397:

Vasham.2408:

Vakirauta.6397:

So the whole content we get after 3 months is a dungeon. Nice.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/

Not just a dungeon. The dungeon is just a talking point right now.

Besides the events, there is a dungeon and new items that nobody wants in the game. And plus a new pvp map. Is that all? Am I missing a real content?

Eventually, players will learn how to penetrate the Karka’s armor and this will bring players to the Karka’s home turf on a new island in the Sea of Sorrows called The Lost Shores. While the Karka don’t originally come from The Lost Shores, they have a significant presence on the island, having settled there for some time. The island itself will be a level 80 zone, but ArenaNet will have a system in place to sidekick lower leveled players up so they can take part in the event. However, it’s important to note that the Lost Shores island will remain as a level 80 zone once the weekend event is completed but players will no longer be sidekicked up after this point.
Of course, the Lost Shores will also be host to the standard fare stuff players can expect to find on any of Guild Wars 2’s explorable maps. Players will find myriad events, jumping puzzles, resource nodes, and more on the Lost Shores. ArenaNet also made note that some of the events on the island will take a different turn from some of the typical events in Guild Wars 2 by allowing players to make a permanent impact on the landscape.

Forgot that bit.

Expect ’’I’m bored’’, "Your content has last me x hours’’ in a week.

Lol, I’m still working on the old content. If people are getting bored that’s their fault.

However this is entirely off topic

Of course, Infusion gear could be a content gate. Each time you run a dungeon (3 fractals) successfully, difficulty goes up. At a point in difficulty, you will need the Infusion gear to succeed. They didn’t say specifically how many runs before you will need Infusion, but with a strictly random pick of fractals, you may never see some of the 9 different ones before you get there. You’ll then need the Infusion gear to see the fractals you haven’t experienced. Isn’t that a gate to see all of the 9 fractal dungeon content?

If it is anything like gear infusion in GW1 versus mob Spectral Agony, it won’t be a point of being able to advance further the more skilled you are, it will be have the Infusion gear, or die. In GW1, you might be able to go further without infusion because there were dedicated healers with big heal abilities with little in the way of cooldowns to keep you alive. In GW2, there are no such things. Regeneration or HoTs will not do it. Cleansing conditions will not work.

And GW2 has not avoided the grind for gear, they have just moved it from one source to another. You’re not grinding dungeons for a random drop, you’re using the Mystic Forge for a random result. The upside to grinding dungeons is that it usually made you richer doing it. The Mystic Forge is designed as a big money/resource sink to reduce the amount of accumulated wealth in the economy.

Adding dungeons is no big surprise in MMOs. They’re easy in comparison to adding expanses of land with viable quests, etc. GW2 is no different from the rest. For people who aren’t really into PvP or dungeon grinding, they can expect snippets of new world maybe every few months, or expansion, that will give them a couple days to explore. If you’re in that group you just have to realize that an MMO is basically a watered-down console game where you can socially interact with other people and accept what the genre is. Don’t hold your breath waiting for an MMO to be anything different. You’ll just turn purple, fall down and hurt yourself.

Djavlas.8249:

Vasham.2408:

Djavlas.8249:

so for it to not be gear gating:

I could hop in the instance, at a relatively high lvl of difficulty, with all my current exotics and be at zero disadvantage?

Basically yes. Eventually you’ll reach a point after so many clears were the scaling difficulty will overwhelm you. That’s going to happen with or without ascended gear. But when it comes to the content within the dungeons: the sub-dungeons, the bosses, the loot, you’ll be able to see and get all of that.

Thanks! that’s what i was looking for. (not like that other reply lol)

now if they just get rid of the base stat increase ill be all peachy

This. Its the base stat increases that people are complaining about. Dungeons having their own armor and mechanic isn’t detracting from horizontal progression. What detracts from it is when new armor instantly makes old armor inferior everywhere.

This actually sounds pretty good.

It’s better than basic Diminishing Returns for sure.

All this does is gate higher difficulty for those that want the challenge, w/o impeding casuals who just want to experience it. It’s actually sort of brilliant when you think about it.