Guild Wars 2

The instant trait reset item in the gemstore resets your trait out of combat (note: doesn’t work in sPvP).

This item provides convenience, but has added bonuses:

• You can use this to reset traits in the middle of a dungeon (or any instance) where exiting the dungeon to retrait will lose your progress: For example, in Arah path 2, you can use this to retrait before fighting the Abomination, but after having run the spider cave (right after Belka). If exit the dungeon to retrait, you must redo the spider cave — progress has been lost.

• You can use in WvW this to reset traits and respec while in the middle of the map, without having to change your position. This is impossible without waypointing and thus losing your position if you do not have the item. This is advantageous when you’re defending a tower and can’t afford to WP away (as you’d have to run all the way back).

• Open world PvE: this item is purely a convenience item — no problems here.

No.
added worlds to make it longer to post.

P2W is a non-existant term in GW2, as everything you can buy every gem store item with in-game gold too.

Buying minis with gems is P2W.

Negative ghostrider.

Even if they added a increase level cap to 85, permanent +200 power stat boost, and a instant pvp r80 boost. It wouldn’t be pay to win because you can buy it with in game gold.

Flissy.4093:

P2W is a non-existant term in GW2, as everything you can buy every gem store item with in-game gold too.

This is so true, P2W means an item you can only get through real world money. And yet there is pages and pages about gemstore being P2W.

This item has been in the game for quite some time. All I’m seeing is that you’re trying to spur another heated P2W thread by picking a random item and forcing out example of how it may give someone a supposed advantage.

You want the long answer or the short answer?

Of all the things that are sub-optimal about this game, that isn’t even close to being on my list.

What kind of advantage is that when everything you need to do in this game is to press #1 and F? You can finish explo dungeons with any kind of stats and WvW? Who needs to change traits in WvW? Even if you really need it, it can wait few minutes until you finish what you are doing and go to sell your loot.

Zypher.7609:

Flissy.4093:

P2W is a non-existant term in GW2, as everything you can buy every gem store item with in-game gold too.

This is so true, P2W means an item you can only get through real world money. And yet there is pages and pages about gemstore being P2W.

P2W also includes purchased items* that cannot be obtained through alternate methods within a reasonable amount of time. For that to be true here however, the item would have to either cost an absurd amount or for the exchange to crash.

* items that increase your effectiveness

runeblade.7514:

Even if they added a increase level cap to 85, permanent +200 power stat boost, and a instant pvp r80 boost. It wouldn’t be pay to win because you can buy it with in game gold.

That’s some faulty logic you got there.

Funny when people claim other people don’t know the meaning of p2w when they themselves don’t know. P2w is simply any premium item that gives an advantage to the player-by some people’s definition you could need 100 000 000g to buy that item in gw2 and it still can’t be called p2w because ‘you can buy it with in-game’ currency. Simply stating that you can buy it with in-game currency and not factor in (a) how much of an advantage the item gives, and (b) the grind needed to get said item as reasons for why a feature isn’t touching ‘p2w’ is ignorant at best.

That said, an item can only be called p2w if using it gives an advantage to the player (of course there are degrees, but in the strictest sense, degrees are irrelevant) so I ask you…really how much of an advantage does it give you? Don’t people usually stick to one load-out in wvw sessions? Also if you’re planning on changing load-outs does the extra 20s run time matter that much? Couldn’t you be ganked by a say a thief while changing stats which would be much worse? (<-actual questions for wvw as I don’t play that format) In pve, for the most part a single load-out will get you through any dungeon-just swap out some utility/weapons as the need arises.

So convenient? Sure. It’s not applicable in pvp so it can’t be p2w there. There isn’t any content that requires entire gear and load-out swapping so it isn’t p2w in pve. WvW’s the only thing it could matter in, and from my limited experience it doesn’t offer a blatant advantage. However, the wvw thing could change as players tend to be more dynamic in terms of finding unexpected uses for items so idk. I think we can all agree it would have been a nice feature to have in-game without a pay wall though.

darkace.8925:

runeblade.7514:

Even if they added a increase level cap to 85, permanent +200 power stat boost, and a instant pvp r80 boost. It wouldn’t be pay to win because you can buy it with in game gold.

That’s some faulty logic you got there.

Not really.

“Pay 2 Win” would imply a system where in order to be ABLE to succeed at the game’s highest level you have to use real money to do it.

Now, with that said, just because an in-game store isn’t “Pay 2 Win” doesn’t mean it can’t have several money grab items that detract from the player’s experience. Personally, for me, I find RNG items, like the Black Lion Chest and Keys, to be awful and despicable… but they are hardly “Pay 2 Win” by any stretch.

…i think people don’t understand what p2w represents anymore…

I am almost completely sure that the item is no longer available in the gem-store.

At least it should have been removed about a month ago according to the Patch-notes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-January-21-2014/

EDIT: Yep, just logged in and checked and it is not available in the gem-store.

LOL. The things people come up with nowadays just to troll and start a flamefest against the devs. Epic fail my friend. Epic.

This item isn’t even available in the Gem Store anymore anyway, only as an occasional drop from the Black Lion Chest. Even then, there was no real advantage to it, since most people who do trait resets also have full armor sets that would go with the new build. I can’t speak for everybody, but carrying around a full set of alternative armor, weapons, and trinkets to go with a new build would take up a lot if inventory space better kept for loot.

Flissy.4093:

P2W is a non-existant term in GW2, as everything you can buy every gem store item with in-game gold too.

I think there are two types of Pay 2 Win.

Soft P2W: Games like GW2 and NW that have advantages also obtainable via in game currency

Hard P2W: Games like AoC, where without paying you can not win end game content.

The only game with micro transactions I have ever played with no P2W is PoE.
Spending money gives only cosmetic changes and no in game advantage. That game’s not exactly thriving.

GW2 needs soft P2W to survive, running an MMO costs big bux. Just accept it and move on.

hellsmachine.4085:

I think there are two types of Pay 2 Win.

Soft P2W: Games like GW2 and NW that have advantages also obtainable via in game currency

Hard P2W: Games like AoC, where without paying you can not win end game content.

NW – you can exchange ingame currency into shop currency
GW2 – same thing

i.e. you can obtain shop items w/o spending a penny out of your wallet in game.
Also, both shops don’t have even p2w items that boost you up heavily beyond normal player.
NW tho differ since it’s f2p anyway – and Cryptic studio does a good job maintaining ingame balance between ingame items and shop items.

In GW2 the only thing that would be p2w would be boosters….but really? I get them from daily/monthly rewards too, and they’re free.

Mining/harvesting tool – I can’t imagine someone not being able to purchase gathering tools out of merchant :/

Okay, they have some customizable items, remodel skins etc, but hey.
It doesn’t affect game experience and yet we treat it as donating developer team and maintaining servers which aren’t cheap.

so yeah, your comparison is good but I really don’t see any GW2 shop item even as soft p2w.
Maybe if they would add Level up Tomes.

Tao.5096:

hellsmachine.4085:

I think there are two types of Pay 2 Win.

Soft P2W: Games like GW2 and NW that have advantages also obtainable via in game currency

Hard P2W: Games like AoC, where without paying you can not win end game content.

NW – you can exchange ingame currency into shop currency
GW2 – same thing

i.e. you can obtain shop items w/o spending a penny out of your wallet in game.
Also, both shops don’t have even p2w items that boost you up heavily beyond normal player.
NW tho differ since it’s f2p anyway – and Cryptic studio does a good job maintaining ingame balance between ingame items and shop items.

In GW2 the only thing that would be p2w would be boosters….but really? I get them from daily/monthly rewards too, and they’re free.

Mining/harvesting tool – I can’t imagine someone not being able to purchase gathering tools out of merchant :/

Okay, they have some customizable items, remodel skins etc, but hey.
It doesn’t affect game experience and yet we treat it as donating developer team and maintaining servers which aren’t cheap.

so yeah, your comparison is good but I really don’t see any GW2 shop item even as soft p2w.
Maybe if they would add Level up Tomes.

I still think it’s technically pay to win. I can buy gems convert to gold, and buy ascended mats or even legendary. It’s not a bad thing. Many games have this. Even D3 was soft pay to win. I like that I get an advantage for spending my hard earned money on a game, whilst all the basement dwellers have to grind for it, because they don’t work. It’s a good system. Company makes money, I get perks win/win.

That’s where Path of Exile failed to make any money off me, what’s the point in me spending my money on a game if I don’t get anything out of it? (I wanted to support that game, but not for bling)

Agree to disagree.

hellsmachine.4085:

I think there are two types of Pay 2 Win.

Soft P2W: Games like GW2 and NW that have advantages also obtainable via in game currency

Hard P2W: Games like AoC, where without paying you can not win end game content.

Your hard P2W definition is also false. There are plenty of hardcore P2W MMOs out there where you can get end game gear (typically available only from cash shop) without paying a cent. Those are typically games where you can grind for gold/coin which can then be converted into cash shop currency to buy end game gear.

What makes them P2W is that in those games it typically takes months to a year (unless you’re a wiz in the Auction House) to grind the coin necessary to buy the cash shop end game gear required to “win” the game. On the other hand, someone with a credit card can just swipe and instantly get that same end game gear that you’re currently grinding your butt off for. Hence that someone has just “paid to win”.

As far as GW2 is concerned, nothing in the boutique that I’ve seen comes even remotely close to providing superiority over anyone else at end game. And by “superiority” I’m talking about better offense, defense, mobility, etc… over someone playing with non boutique items. Merely having the better fashion or stat resetting convenience doesn’t count as P2W IMO.

hellsmachine.4085:

Tao.5096:

hellsmachine.4085:

I think there are two types of Pay 2 Win.

Soft P2W: Games like GW2 and NW that have advantages also obtainable via in game currency

Hard P2W: Games like AoC, where without paying you can not win end game content.

NW – you can exchange ingame currency into shop currency
GW2 – same thing

i.e. you can obtain shop items w/o spending a penny out of your wallet in game.
Also, both shops don’t have even p2w items that boost you up heavily beyond normal player.
NW tho differ since it’s f2p anyway – and Cryptic studio does a good job maintaining ingame balance between ingame items and shop items.

In GW2 the only thing that would be p2w would be boosters….but really? I get them from daily/monthly rewards too, and they’re free.

Mining/harvesting tool – I can’t imagine someone not being able to purchase gathering tools out of merchant :/

Okay, they have some customizable items, remodel skins etc, but hey.
It doesn’t affect game experience and yet we treat it as donating developer team and maintaining servers which aren’t cheap.

so yeah, your comparison is good but I really don’t see any GW2 shop item even as soft p2w.
Maybe if they would add Level up Tomes.

I still think it’s technically pay to win. I can buy gems convert to gold, and buy ascended mats or even legendary. It’s not a bad thing. Many games have this. Even D3 was soft pay to win.

The problem here is that ascended/legendary gear doesn’t give enough of an advantage over standard exotics to be really considered P2W gear.

If you ever played Perfect World you’d know what I was talking about. In that game, gear that was only available via boutique purchase (either real money or lengthy grinding for coins) had more than twice the stats of gear available from the open world/dungeons.

Hexalot.8194:

hellsmachine.4085:

I think there are two types of Pay 2 Win.

Soft P2W: Games like GW2 and NW that have advantages also obtainable via in game currency

Hard P2W: Games like AoC, where without paying you can not win end game content.

Your hard P2W definition is also false. There are plenty of hardcore P2W MMOs out there where you can get end game gear (typically available only from cash shop) without paying a cent. Those are typically games where you can grind for gold/coin which can then be converted into cash shop currency to buy end game gear.

What makes them P2W is that in those games it typically takes months to a year (unless you’re a wiz in the Auction House) to grind the coin necessary to buy the cash shop end game gear required to “win” the game. On the other hand, someone with a credit card can just swipe and instantly get that same end game gear that you’re currently grinding your butt off for. Hence that someone has just “paid to win”.

As far as GW2 is concerned, nothing in the boutique that I’ve seen comes even remotely close to providing superiority over anyone else at end game. And by “superiority” I’m talking about better offense, defense, mobility, etc… over someone playing with non boutique items. Merely having the better fashion or stat resetting convenience doesn’t count as P2W IMO.

You missed my point entirely.

Hexalot.8194:

hellsmachine.4085:

Tao.5096:

hellsmachine.4085:

I think there are two types of Pay 2 Win.

Soft P2W: Games like GW2 and NW that have advantages also obtainable via in game currency

Hard P2W: Games like AoC, where without paying you can not win end game content.

NW – you can exchange ingame currency into shop currency
GW2 – same thing

i.e. you can obtain shop items w/o spending a penny out of your wallet in game.
Also, both shops don’t have even p2w items that boost you up heavily beyond normal player.
NW tho differ since it’s f2p anyway – and Cryptic studio does a good job maintaining ingame balance between ingame items and shop items.

In GW2 the only thing that would be p2w would be boosters….but really? I get them from daily/monthly rewards too, and they’re free.

Mining/harvesting tool – I can’t imagine someone not being able to purchase gathering tools out of merchant :/

Okay, they have some customizable items, remodel skins etc, but hey.
It doesn’t affect game experience and yet we treat it as donating developer team and maintaining servers which aren’t cheap.

so yeah, your comparison is good but I really don’t see any GW2 shop item even as soft p2w.
Maybe if they would add Level up Tomes.

I still think it’s technically pay to win. I can buy gems convert to gold, and buy ascended mats or even legendary. It’s not a bad thing. Many games have this. Even D3 was soft pay to win.

The problem here is that ascended/legendary gear doesn’t give enough of an advantage over standard exotics to be really considered P2W gear.

If you ever played Perfect World you’d know what I was talking about. In that game, gear that was only available via boutique purchase (either real money or lengthy grinding for coins) had more than twice the stats of gear available from the open world/dungeons.

It’s just a different level of P2W. Same principle.

Anet has found a good balance.