Is Anet afraid of expansion not selling?
The players they’ve lost won’t come back for an expansion.
The new players they get can’t even keep up with the new content.Wrong, most players who have left would only come back with a decent expansion. 80% of my guild stopped playing and waits for either a good new MMO or an expansion worth of content. LS only offers new content for some hours a month. This might be enjoyed by active players, but nobody who has already left really cares for this temporary mini content.
The point is: GW2 currently lacks competition. There will be some bigger titles in the next half year and GW2 will loose big chunks of players, if they don’t offer (much)more than they do now. I would buy an expansion, just to be able to play with my guildmates again for a longer period of time. I would buy another promising game for the same reason as well. I am not the only one thinking this way.
I just wanted to point out that the above is pretty much nonsense.
Most people who have left GW2 and have not come back at all for the Living Story stuff would not come back for long, if at all, for an expansion. This is because they are not looking for a game with slow, limited vertical progression, or where you are meant to keep looking around the world, exploring, doing new stuff and so on.
They will come back. They are looking for something GW2 misses and they hope the expansion will bring.
Of course Anet needs to do a good job on the expansions because the change they come back again when the expansions turns out to be a failure does drop.
So basically you’re saying most people who left GW2 want a WoW clone
Well they have one coming with Wildstar
Yep and yep. And right now at least WildStar is like WoW plus massive time requirements. Be interesting to see how that does with people with jobs/kids/friends.
I was genuinely gutted that Wildstar was going to be a standard pay to play sub game, it looks fantastic, and annoyingly, the dev from Wildstar I said that to after the gW2 dev chat at eurogamer was surprised to think anyone would want it free to play
Well, I feel you on not wanting to pay a sub. I wish the standard was more around 8 bucks a month instead of 15, but it’s kind of taking the good with the bad…free 2 play games, yes they are awesome they are free, but they are really just games that want to milk you for everything you are worth, nickel and dime.
In Wildstar thy are having an incredible player housing system and if it were a free to play game I bet most of the stuff to decorate, instead of going out in the world and finding, would just be sold off a store. Also, f2p games notoriously bring in the worst gamers imaginable. All said and done, I’d much rather pay a sub if it’s a good game than to deal with all the nickel and diming.
True. Luckily there is the even better system B2P where you pay the game with initial box sales and expansions.. You know the system that made ArenaNet and Guild Wars big. To bad they dropped it for GW2 and we not have the F2P model with all it’s negative side-effects.
< start of flagrant speculation >
There’s no expansion because the profit margin is not as high as the stuff players are buying now in the gem store. It doesn’t cost ANet much NRE (non-recoverable engineering) to make some skins and random loot boxes.
The LS has NRE but honestly the LS is very small compared to a true expansion.
If you think LS is a 1-for-1 substitute content-wise for an expansion then I think your’re being a little naive. It’s about the bare minimum you can crank out every two weeks to cover new additions to the gem store.
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
See OP
Before GW2 was released Anet said that they have no intention of using the same expansion model as GW.
You have that statement. I know they said that they would also have a cash-shop to generate income (what is fine.. as long as the focus is on expansions) but as far as I know, and I did follow the news pretty good, they never said they would not use the same model as GW1.
If they had said that I would not have both the game I can tell you.
Besides, if they would go for a F2P model like we now see, so focusing on the gem-store for income why did they then charge money for the original game? Then they should have really make it free to play. By charging for the initial box they even more suggested they would use the same model as GW1.
“When they made GW2, they made it persistent, open-world and as such, an expansion model consisting of either stand alone games or an add-on is not ideal from that stand point.” a real stand alone is not an option no but an expansion for sure is. Thats works just fine.
I am gonna work here with the idea that GW2 indeed is an open word.. it is not (what makes it even easier) but I really hope that at some point it would become that.
When you release the expansion you can add land. This can be on the current continent and on other continent. Usually you do a combination. People who have the expansion have access to the new continent people without don’t but they do have access to the new maps on the current continent. However many new abilities are not available for them. Lets take the hairstyle example. If they go to the ingame barber they see 10 hairstyles while somebody with the expansion might see 20. They can not go into new dungeons and if the game would introduce mounts they can not use them.
It would work perfectly.
(edited by Devata.6589)
< start of flagrant speculation >
There’s no expansion because the profit margin is not as high as the stuff players are buying now in the gem store. It doesn’t cost ANet much NRE (non-recoverable engineering) to make some skins and random loot boxes.
The LS has NRE but honestly the LS is very small compared to a true expansion.
If you think LS is a 1-for-1 substitute content-wise for an expansion then I think your’re being a little naive. It’s about the bare minimum you can crank out every two weeks to cover new additions to the gem store.
This is most likely the reason or better they think the profit margin is not as high as the stuff players are buying now in the gem store.
Then again I do think that expansion based income has a longer life then this and might even be better at keeping people so in fact it might not be true for sure not over the longer period.
Another problem is that the company gets a lesser name of it. Anet had a very good name and that was because of their fair B2P model.. that name is what made GW2 popular. If they not keep going with this F2P model who is then gonna buy another game of them. They already lost a lot of trust. The only way to take that back is by saying sorry publicly and saying they will turn back the original model and then releasing an amazing expansion.
So in the long run that might be better for income but indeed in the short run this F2P model might be better.
So basically you’re saying most people who left GW2 want a WoW clone
Well they have one coming with Wildstar
Yep and yep. And right now at least WildStar is like WoW plus massive time requirements. Be interesting to see how that does with people with jobs/kids/friends.
I was genuinely gutted that Wildstar was going to be a standard pay to play sub game, it looks fantastic, and annoyingly, the dev from Wildstar I said that to after the gW2 dev chat at eurogamer was surprised to think anyone would want it free to play
Well, I feel you on not wanting to pay a sub. I wish the standard was more around 8 bucks a month instead of 15, but it’s kind of taking the good with the bad…free 2 play games, yes they are awesome they are free, but they are really just games that want to milk you for everything you are worth, nickel and dime.
In Wildstar thy are having an incredible player housing system and if it were a free to play game I bet most of the stuff to decorate, instead of going out in the world and finding, would just be sold off a store. Also, f2p games notoriously bring in the worst gamers imaginable. All said and done, I’d much rather pay a sub if it’s a good game than to deal with all the nickel and diming.
True. Luckily there is the even better system B2P where you pay the game with initial box sales and expansions.. You know the system that made ArenaNet and Guild Wars big. To bad they dropped it for GW2 and we not have the F2P model with all it’s negative side-effects.
Well I still have an issue with B2P…I guess it’s a little more convenient than f2p, but you can still see things like RNG boxes you buy for real cash or have to grind grind grind to exchange gold for. It’s just a bad system, imo. I’d rather them just take 15 bucks and not put any of that dumb stuff that makes them design everything around an auction house in the game. The games end up being all about the auction houses, trading posts, etc instead of the world.
So basically you’re saying most people who left GW2 want a WoW clone
Well they have one coming with Wildstar
Yep and yep. And right now at least WildStar is like WoW plus massive time requirements. Be interesting to see how that does with people with jobs/kids/friends.
I was genuinely gutted that Wildstar was going to be a standard pay to play sub game, it looks fantastic, and annoyingly, the dev from Wildstar I said that to after the gW2 dev chat at eurogamer was surprised to think anyone would want it free to play
Well, I feel you on not wanting to pay a sub. I wish the standard was more around 8 bucks a month instead of 15, but it’s kind of taking the good with the bad…free 2 play games, yes they are awesome they are free, but they are really just games that want to milk you for everything you are worth, nickel and dime.
In Wildstar thy are having an incredible player housing system and if it were a free to play game I bet most of the stuff to decorate, instead of going out in the world and finding, would just be sold off a store. Also, f2p games notoriously bring in the worst gamers imaginable. All said and done, I’d much rather pay a sub if it’s a good game than to deal with all the nickel and diming.
True. Luckily there is the even better system B2P where you pay the game with initial box sales and expansions.. You know the system that made ArenaNet and Guild Wars big. To bad they dropped it for GW2 and we not have the F2P model with all it’s negative side-effects.
Well I still have an issue with B2P…I guess it’s a little more convenient than f2p, but you can still see things like RNG boxes you buy for real cash or have to grind grind grind to exchange gold for. It’s just a bad system, imo. I’d rather them just take 15 bucks and not put any of that dumb stuff that makes them design everything around an auction house in the game. The games end up being all about the auction houses, trading posts, etc instead of the world.
The whole idea is that with the B2P you lose the RNG boxes you buy for real cash or have to grind grind grind to exchange gold for and all other negative side effects from the F2P model. In a way B2P is a P2P model but you do not pay per month but per expansion. Cash/shop would become more an optional thing where you can maybe buy a few special skins or stuff like extra bank slots and char slots.
But while in a way it is a P2P model you do not have the timer above your head and P2P models have failed for over the last 9 years. No MMO was able to hold it up longer then 2 years so we must conclude that P2P does not work.
Thats why I like B2P so much. It has best of two worlds and is a fair way because everybody pays for the content.
Companies don’t go for it because they think they will not make enough money and maybe on the short run they will make less (not so convinced of that tbo) I also think it has a longer life-spawn. Besides, a few years ago those companies did also not think they could make money with B2P and GW1 already proved that it can work.
Here’s the thing. At the time GW Nightfall was released, the other two games were still on the market at full price.
So if you wanted to play guild wars and be competitive in price, you needed to have all 3 expansions. Key skills were expansion exlusive. This meant that if you were a new player, starting the game was a $120 proposition. That’s too much to ask for new players of an old game.
The micro transaction model is better for new players than the buy to play expansions model. Otherwise, you price your new customers out of the market.
#24 leaderboard rank North America.
Here’s the thing. At the time GW Nightfall was released, the other two games were still on the market at full price.
So if you wanted to play guild wars and be competitive in price, you needed to have all 3 expansions. Key skills were expansion exlusive. This meant that if you were a new player, starting the game was a $120 proposition. That’s too much to ask for new players of an old game.
The micro transaction model is better for new players than the buy to play expansions model. Otherwise, you price your new customers out of the market.
You can always do something like a packaged deal for both. $60 dollars gets you both the base game and the expansion.
Honestly I don’t think there is an option, an expansion is needed. Why? GW2’s revenue keeps doing down quarterly which should be expected especially for a game dependent on box sales. They only way to boost the revenue is an expansion, that is it.
You won’t get a lot of new players in today’s highly saturated and competitive market, without something big. The new player has 5-6 solid MMOs that are completely F2P and have no box price.
Here’s the thing. At the time GW Nightfall was released, the other two games were still on the market at full price.
So if you wanted to play guild wars and be competitive in price, you needed to have all 3 expansions. Key skills were expansion exlusive. This meant that if you were a new player, starting the game was a $120 proposition. That’s too much to ask for new players of an old game.
The micro transaction model is better for new players than the buy to play expansions model. Otherwise, you price your new customers out of the market.
I already told how they had to fix that even before anybody mentioned it in this thread.
I will copy paste it.
The only thing they really need to be careful of is a pile of expansions that is a problem for new players. 5 expansions down the road it would become to expensive to start playing the game if you need to buy them all. Best way to do that is to work with a system where you have a little cheaper and a little more expensive expansion every time switching. Next you only require the original game and the last two expansions where the for-last expansion gives you access to all previous expansions.
Of course it would also be wise to drop the prise of the original game at some point. most likely at the release of the first expansion and then one more time at the release of the second expansion.
The total price would then most likely still go up to about 100 dollar in total what is a lot but you don’t need to buy everything at once. Going for the original game + for-last expansion would mean you where only one expansion behind and if you have not so much money you can then save for the last expansion.
In the end.. yes you need to pay the content.
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
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WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They actually didn’t, deal with that.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They said they don’t know how they will release the expansion. They may have made up their minds by now though. They where unsure of whether to do a business as usual box release or feed it through the living story. The content will come one way or the other.
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They said they don’t know how they will release the expansion. They may have made up their minds by now though. They where unsure of whether to do a business as usual box release or feed it through the living story. The content will come one way or the other.
If I don’t want the content if it’s free, why the hell would I want to pay money for the content in box-form?
[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They said they don’t know how they will release the expansion. They may have made up their minds by now though. They where unsure of whether to do a business as usual box release or feed it through the living story. The content will come one way or the other.
If I don’t want the content if it’s free, why the hell would I want to pay money for the content in box-form?
Because of the bad side-effects from the gem-store approach. Now Anet focus on the gem-store for income the question becomes “how do we get people to buy gems” and that effects the game in a negative way. Nothing is free you see.
I did already gave multiple examples with the mini’s in the game and the gold-driven part and so on but I will keep it to one example here.
Lets for a moment forget about money. You just want to create the best game there is. How would you go about hairstyles? Would you put new hairstyles in some separate part from the game where you pay a lot of gold to change your hair onetime (using the gold / gem rate here) or would you put a barber ingame where everybody can just go and cut it’s hair for a few silver.
But money is a factor, the company needs to make money so now lets suggest they make money with expansions. How would they then do it. They might put the barber in the next expansion or already put him in now but lock multiple hairstyles behind an expansion. Anyway, the barber is in the game and you can change your hair whenever you like for a few silver. You have the expansion? Then you have more hairstyles.
Now lets say you generate income with the gem-store what would you then do. Well you need to make money so you will luck the hairstyles behind some cash-shop most likely in a totally separate part outside of the game (that is not required btw) that means a you can not just go to the barber and cut your hair for a few silver whenever you like but you need to pay a lot of gold or some money. They need to make some money somehow so who can blame them if they have a F2P game.
So thats an example where the cash-shop focus for income makes a compromise to the game quality. The quality of the game becomes lesser because they have to answer the question “How do we get people to buy gems”. Just like mini’s are now mainly gem-store related so going into the world colling them is gone..
The question “how to get people to keep buying expansion” simply results in a better game.
Thats why you would want to pay for expansions.. to get a better game.
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They said they don’t know how they will release the expansion. They may have made up their minds by now though. They where unsure of whether to do a business as usual box release or feed it through the living story. The content will come one way or the other.
If I don’t want the content if it’s free, why the hell would I want to pay money for the content in box-form?
Because of the bad side-effects from the gem-store approach. Now Anet focus on the gem-store for income the question becomes “how do we get people to buy gems” and that effects the game in a negative way. Nothing is free you see.
I did already gave multiple examples with the mini’s in the game and the gold-driven part and so on but I will keep it to one example here.
Lets for a moment forget about money. You just want to create the best game there is. How would you go about hairstyles? Would you put new hairstyles in some separate part from the game where you pay a lot of gold to change your hair onetime (using the gold / gem rate here) or would you put a barber ingame where everybody can just go and cut it’s hair for a few silver.
But money is a factor, the company needs to make money so now lets suggest they make money with expansions. How would they then do it. They might put the barber in the next expansion or already put him in now but lock multiple hairstyles behind an expansion. Anyway, the barber is in the game and you can change your hair whenever you like for a few silver. You have the expansion? Then you have more hairstyles.
Now lets say you generate income with the gem-store what would you then do. Well you need to make money so you will luck the hairstyles behind some cash-shop most likely in a totally separate part outside of the game (that is not required btw) that means a you can not just go to the barber and cut your hair for a few silver whenever you like but you need to pay a lot of gold or some money. They need to make some money somehow so who can blame them if they have a F2P game.
So thats an example where the cash-shop focus for income makes a compromise to the game quality. The quality of the game becomes lesser because they have to answer the question “How do we get people to buy gems”. Just like mini’s are now mainly gem-store related so going into the world colling them is gone..
The question “how to get people to keep buying expansion” simply results in a better game.
Thats why you would want to pay for expansions.. to get a better game.
And you’re still here why? <.<
Blood And Metal is a guild on Gunnars Hold that is all about metal, punk,hard rock etc.. Join us!
IMO, there is no way they won’t have an expansion. When MMO players who have quit a game hear the word “expansion,” they almost instinctively come back to try it out. It’s a tried-and-true way of getting people back and excited about a game again. The word has too powerful a connotation that Anet will not be able to resist.
@ Devata
you keep saying the same thing essentially over and over and we get it by now.
The more you post it doesn’t mean that Anet will suddenly go and say oh yes- I guess we should change our business model.
You don’t like how they do it- that is fine.
I can’t help feel that you are drumming up support for your point of view, which is also fine. It does not however mean that they will change their model to what you want.
That is not going to happen- so either deal with it or not
Gunnar’s Hold
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They said they don’t know how they will release the expansion. They may have made up their minds by now though. They where unsure of whether to do a business as usual box release or feed it through the living story. The content will come one way or the other.
If I don’t want the content if it’s free, why the hell would I want to pay money for the content in box-form?
I don’t know and I really don’t care.
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They said they don’t know how they will release the expansion. They may have made up their minds by now though. They where unsure of whether to do a business as usual box release or feed it through the living story. The content will come one way or the other.
If I don’t want the content if it’s free, why the hell would I want to pay money for the content in box-form?
Because of the bad side-effects from the gem-store approach. Now Anet focus on the gem-store for income the question becomes “how do we get people to buy gems” and that effects the game in a negative way. Nothing is free you see.
I did already gave multiple examples with the mini’s in the game and the gold-driven part and so on but I will keep it to one example here.
Lets for a moment forget about money. You just want to create the best game there is. How would you go about hairstyles? Would you put new hairstyles in some separate part from the game where you pay a lot of gold to change your hair onetime (using the gold / gem rate here) or would you put a barber ingame where everybody can just go and cut it’s hair for a few silver.
But money is a factor, the company needs to make money so now lets suggest they make money with expansions. How would they then do it. They might put the barber in the next expansion or already put him in now but lock multiple hairstyles behind an expansion. Anyway, the barber is in the game and you can change your hair whenever you like for a few silver. You have the expansion? Then you have more hairstyles.
Now lets say you generate income with the gem-store what would you then do. Well you need to make money so you will luck the hairstyles behind some cash-shop most likely in a totally separate part outside of the game (that is not required btw) that means a you can not just go to the barber and cut your hair for a few silver whenever you like but you need to pay a lot of gold or some money. They need to make some money somehow so who can blame them if they have a F2P game.
So thats an example where the cash-shop focus for income makes a compromise to the game quality. The quality of the game becomes lesser because they have to answer the question “How do we get people to buy gems”. Just like mini’s are now mainly gem-store related so going into the world colling them is gone..
The question “how to get people to keep buying expansion” simply results in a better game.
Thats why you would want to pay for expansions.. to get a better game.
1. Anet has enough money from RNG box sales to feed the world 90 times.
2. Anet promised that the gem-store would revolve only around cosmetic purchases, which they did. Unfortunately, the entire game revolves around cosmetic items, leading to more transmutation stone purchases or outfit purchases. Anet has made enough money from these.
3. Expansions do not guarantee a better game. WoW declined over time because it tried to “improve” the game by making the expansions better. I don’t see how Guild Wars 2 could get worse, but Anet can make that happen. I foresee much RNG, more gem-store items, and farming nerfs so that people cannot make gold to pay for gems. Anet will make you pay real money for gems soon.
I would not buy an expansion, I would not play expansion content, and I certainly would not encourage others to buy an expansion until Anet comes up with better content. They have so much money from rng boxes, yet they make crap content every two weeks. They need to learn to give over some of that money to make better content, and only then would I be slightly interested in playing expansion content.
[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They said they don’t know how they will release the expansion. They may have made up their minds by now though. They where unsure of whether to do a business as usual box release or feed it through the living story. The content will come one way or the other.
If I don’t want the content if it’s free, why the hell would I want to pay money for the content in box-form?
Because of the bad side-effects from the gem-store approach. Now Anet focus on the gem-store for income the question becomes “how do we get people to buy gems” and that effects the game in a negative way. Nothing is free you see.
I did already gave multiple examples with the mini’s in the game and the gold-driven part and so on but I will keep it to one example here.
Lets for a moment forget about money. You just want to create the best game there is. How would you go about hairstyles? Would you put new hairstyles in some separate part from the game where you pay a lot of gold to change your hair onetime (using the gold / gem rate here) or would you put a barber ingame where everybody can just go and cut it’s hair for a few silver.
But money is a factor, the company needs to make money so now lets suggest they make money with expansions. How would they then do it. They might put the barber in the next expansion or already put him in now but lock multiple hairstyles behind an expansion. Anyway, the barber is in the game and you can change your hair whenever you like for a few silver. You have the expansion? Then you have more hairstyles.
Now lets say you generate income with the gem-store what would you then do. Well you need to make money so you will luck the hairstyles behind some cash-shop most likely in a totally separate part outside of the game (that is not required btw) that means a you can not just go to the barber and cut your hair for a few silver whenever you like but you need to pay a lot of gold or some money. They need to make some money somehow so who can blame them if they have a F2P game.
So thats an example where the cash-shop focus for income makes a compromise to the game quality. The quality of the game becomes lesser because they have to answer the question “How do we get people to buy gems”. Just like mini’s are now mainly gem-store related so going into the world colling them is gone..
The question “how to get people to keep buying expansion” simply results in a better game.
Thats why you would want to pay for expansions.. to get a better game.
And you’re still here why? <.<
Because I think it can still be fixed and the guild.
Spreading the community might be a good thing because it means there are people everywhere not almost everybody in one spot. I also don’t see this problem in other mmo.. I mean I see the spreading, I don’t see the problem. In GW2 they are also spread out. BTW how did it spread the community in GW1? In GW1 you where always in instances.
Or people on the 4-5 best spots and nobody anywhere else, creating an empty game. Lots of MMORGPs are like this, when the expansion is out everyone is playing at the new areas (which also offer higher character level) while the rest of the game slowly but surely becomes a barren wasteland. There was no such issue in GW1, neither spread out too thin, nor focused on one spot, because it was instanced. There is no comparison between the two and how much actual damage an expansion will do to GW2 instead of helping.
Yes new members and directly after the release will not have full access true. But how long does it normally takes before people will buy the expansion, and the fact that other guild member can go there only is a reason for people to buy the expansion.
I have loads of guild mates in GW1 that never bought anything other than Prophecies. There were those who started with Factions and never got Prophecies. It is different in games like WoW where the expansion offers a higher level cap and your “current” level becomes a barren wasteland, you are forced to get the expansion. In GW1 you could play solo all the content and don’t care about finding other people, only talking to guildies and spending time in the guild hall.
Of course it has benefits and drawbacks but if I put them next to P2P or F2P (so the income generated by a cash-shop) then the benefits of a B2P payment model where Anet focuses on expansions for income far outweighs the drawbacks.
I don’t see it that way. An expansion has way more drawbacks than benefits, IF they could add things like extra skills, some extra zones, progress the story etc through a much more manageable way like the Living Story, in other words when we stop getting filler content the LS can replace an expansion. Not to mention, the way the world is they could change the existing world instead of adding new zones, like how Southsun Changed between its release and how it is now (barren wasteland, but graphic-wise it had some changes that show some progression)
@ Devata
you keep saying the same thing essentially over and over and we get it by now.
The more you post it doesn’t mean that Anet will suddenly go and say oh yes- I guess we should change our business model.You don’t like how they do it- that is fine.
I can’t help feel that you are drumming up support for your point of view, which is also fine. It does not however mean that they will change their model to what you want.
That is not going to happen- so either deal with it or not
Correct because people don’t read the thread and then keep asking the same questions over and over again. So I keep answering the same answer over and over again.
You don’t know if they won’t change it and I don’t deal with what they are doing now. As you can see.
I am also not somebody who likes to switch form one game to another especially with MMO’s. So then I will first try all in my power to make sure they improve what is wrong.
Oow and it is not so much and getting ‘support for my point’ as there are already many people asking for expansions and complaining about the thinks I call negative side-effects of the gem-store. So that ‘support’ already exist.
What I try to do is showing people how the gem-store focus is related to thinks in the game. It’s then up to them to do with that what they want. Of course I am also here in the hopes of getting Anet employee to think about this them-self and so maybe they are able to change it. I want this game to be a success but the way they are going now is the wrong way.
(edited by Devata.6589)
Or people on the 4-5 best spots and nobody anywhere else, creating an empty game. Lots of MMORGPs are like this, when the expansion is out everyone is playing at the new areas (which also offer higher character level) while the rest of the game slowly but surely becomes a barren wasteland.
Most, if not all, servers in GW2 are like this already. So it isn’t like the expansion would create a problem that doesn’t exist.
What do you recommend they do to upstart their sales? You might be asking why I case about their sales. I do because less sales = worst game. Period. It has gone down drastically in the last 2 quarters.
(edited by Xcom.1926)
Anet has already said they are NEVER doing expansions for this game. Deal with it.
They said they don’t know how they will release the expansion. They may have made up their minds by now though. They where unsure of whether to do a business as usual box release or feed it through the living story. The content will come one way or the other.
If I don’t want the content if it’s free, why the hell would I want to pay money for the content in box-form?
Because of the bad side-effects from the gem-store approach. Now Anet focus on the gem-store for income the question becomes “how do we get people to buy gems” and that effects the game in a negative way. Nothing is free you see.
I did already gave multiple examples with the mini’s in the game and the gold-driven part and so on but I will keep it to one example here.
Lets for a moment forget about money. You just want to create the best game there is. How would you go about hairstyles? Would you put new hairstyles in some separate part from the game where you pay a lot of gold to change your hair onetime (using the gold / gem rate here) or would you put a barber ingame where everybody can just go and cut it’s hair for a few silver.
But money is a factor, the company needs to make money so now lets suggest they make money with expansions. How would they then do it. They might put the barber in the next expansion or already put him in now but lock multiple hairstyles behind an expansion. Anyway, the barber is in the game and you can change your hair whenever you like for a few silver. You have the expansion? Then you have more hairstyles.
Now lets say you generate income with the gem-store what would you then do. Well you need to make money so you will luck the hairstyles behind some cash-shop most likely in a totally separate part outside of the game (that is not required btw) that means a you can not just go to the barber and cut your hair for a few silver whenever you like but you need to pay a lot of gold or some money. They need to make some money somehow so who can blame them if they have a F2P game.
So thats an example where the cash-shop focus for income makes a compromise to the game quality. The quality of the game becomes lesser because they have to answer the question “How do we get people to buy gems”. Just like mini’s are now mainly gem-store related so going into the world colling them is gone..
The question “how to get people to keep buying expansion” simply results in a better game.
Thats why you would want to pay for expansions.. to get a better game.
1. Anet has enough money from RNG box sales to feed the world 90 times.
2. Anet promised that the gem-store would revolve only around cosmetic purchases, which they did. Unfortunately, the entire game revolves around cosmetic items, leading to more transmutation stone purchases or outfit purchases. Anet has made enough money from these.
3. Expansions do not guarantee a better game. WoW declined over time because it tried to “improve” the game by making the expansions better. I don’t see how Guild Wars 2 could get worse, but Anet can make that happen. I foresee much RNG, more gem-store items, and farming nerfs so that people cannot make gold to pay for gems. Anet will make you pay real money for gems soon.
I would not buy an expansion, I would not play expansion content, and I certainly would not encourage others to buy an expansion until Anet comes up with better content. They have so much money from rng boxes, yet they make crap content every two weeks. They need to learn to give over some of that money to make better content, and only then would I be slightly interested in playing expansion content.
Basically you are supporting what I am saying. Especially with part 3. (I dit not really understand1 btw)
Of course an expansion would indeed only be a good idea if that would also mean they change there approach to get off the bad model they are using now and improve the game-world. But then they have that option. Now they are required to rng-boxes or other bad thinks to make money.
(edited by Devata.6589)
“1. Anet has enough money from RNG box sales to feed the world 90 times.”
WROOOOONNNGGGG
As has been shown ANET does not get money from the Gemstore directly. Money goes to NCsoft and they then get a % or whatever. Money goes to NCsoft and THEY decide howmuch ANET gets. Money earned by GW2 will also be put into other games NCsoft develops and vice versa.
Just because they make money with the gemstore it does not mean it all goes directly to them, let’s get that clear.
Now. Proceed with the flaming!
Blood And Metal is a guild on Gunnars Hold that is all about metal, punk,hard rock etc.. Join us!
“1. Anet has enough money from RNG box sales to feed the world 90 times.”
WROOOOONNNGGGG
As has been shown ANET does not get money from the Gemstore directly. Money goes to NCsoft and they then get a % or whatever. Money goes to NCsoft and THEY decide howmuch ANET gets. Money earned by GW2 will also be put into other games NCsoft develops and vice versa.
Just because they make money with the gemstore it does not mean it all goes directly to them, let’s get that clear.
Now. Proceed with the flaming!
Recognize a hyperbole when you see it. Even so, Anet should be able to come up with better content with the money they’re given. As it stands, the content they come up with now is complete and utter garbage that I would not wipe my butt with.
[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]
“1. Anet has enough money from RNG box sales to feed the world 90 times.”
WROOOOONNNGGGG
As has been shown ANET does not get money from the Gemstore directly. Money goes to NCsoft and they then get a % or whatever. Money goes to NCsoft and THEY decide howmuch ANET gets. Money earned by GW2 will also be put into other games NCsoft develops and vice versa.
Just because they make money with the gemstore it does not mean it all goes directly to them, let’s get that clear.
Now. Proceed with the flaming!
Recognize a hyperbole when you see it. Even so, Anet should be able to come up with better content with the money they’re given. As it stands, the content they come up with now is complete and utter garbage that I would not wipe my butt with.
THAT is a different discussion. But still you’re around? Go play something you enjoy more?
Blood And Metal is a guild on Gunnars Hold that is all about metal, punk,hard rock etc.. Join us!
Ok I spent sometime and looked at NCSoft’s releases on sales. Please be aware, that generally the developer only gets 10% to 15% of the total revenue and NOT all of it.
Unit : Korean Won in Millions
3Q 12 = 45,841
4Q 12 = 119,013
1Q 13 = 36,382
2Q 13 = 28,899
Without an expansion we will keep seeing drops. The only way to rejuvenate their revenue is a new expansion. They know this better than anyone else, which is why I am 100% sure there will be an expansion. It would be silly not to have one.
“1. Anet has enough money from RNG box sales to feed the world 90 times.”
WROOOOONNNGGGG
As has been shown ANET does not get money from the Gemstore directly. Money goes to NCsoft and they then get a % or whatever. Money goes to NCsoft and THEY decide howmuch ANET gets. Money earned by GW2 will also be put into other games NCsoft develops and vice versa.
Just because they make money with the gemstore it does not mean it all goes directly to them, let’s get that clear.
Now. Proceed with the flaming!
Recognize a hyperbole when you see it. Even so, Anet should be able to come up with better content with the money they’re given. As it stands, the content they come up with now is complete and utter garbage that I would not wipe my butt with.
Uhm… does that mean if you liked the content you actually would wipe your butt with it?
I don’t mean to judge, but this really isn’t the place to talk about what you like to shove up yourself.
“What we do in life echoes in eternity”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zkT2uZAGA – GW2 – A world of wonder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zkT2uZAGA – GW2 – A world of wonder
“1. Anet has enough money from RNG box sales to feed the world 90 times.”
WROOOOONNNGGGG
As has been shown ANET does not get money from the Gemstore directly. Money goes to NCsoft and they then get a % or whatever. Money goes to NCsoft and THEY decide howmuch ANET gets. Money earned by GW2 will also be put into other games NCsoft develops and vice versa.
Just because they make money with the gemstore it does not mean it all goes directly to them, let’s get that clear.
Now. Proceed with the flaming!
Recognize a hyperbole when you see it. Even so, Anet should be able to come up with better content with the money they’re given. As it stands, the content they come up with now is complete and utter garbage that I would not wipe my butt with.
THAT is a different discussion. But still you’re around? Go play something you enjoy more?
When you’ve played the Guild Wars games for as long as I have, you find it hard to completely give up on the games you spent your life with. I’m still hanging on to the idea that Anet is still trying to improve their content every two weeks and that it is going to get better, not worse. I check in every few days to see if anything was improved, but nothing significant has happened as of yet. When I see that the game is not going to get better, then I will use my GW2 box as firestarter and then never come back.
[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]
Ok I spent sometime and looked at NCSoft’s releases on sales. Please be aware, that generally the developer only gets 10% to 15% of the total revenue and NOT all of it.
Unit : Korean Won in Millions
3Q 12 = 45,841
4Q 12 = 119,013
1Q 13 = 36,382
2Q 13 = 28,899Without an expansion we will keep seeing drops. The only way to rejuvenate their revenue is a new expansion. They know this better than anyone else, which is why I am 100% sure there will be an expansion. It would be silly not to have one.
This.
Blood And Metal is a guild on Gunnars Hold that is all about metal, punk,hard rock etc.. Join us!
Or people on the 4-5 best spots and nobody anywhere else, creating an empty game. Lots of MMORGPs are like this, when the expansion is out everyone is playing at the new areas (which also offer higher character level) while the rest of the game slowly but surely becomes a barren wasteland.
Most, if not all, servers in GW2 are like this already. So it isn’t like the expansion would create a problem that doesn’t exist.
What do you recommend they do to upstart their sales? You might be asking why I case about their sales. I do because less sales = worst game. Period. It has gone down drastically in the last 2 quarters.
It won’t “create” a new problem but it will make a current problem that you admit exists even worse.
- Tank/DPS/Healer trinity
To be fair, I think you should differentiate between a trinity and variety in builds, gameplay, and roles.
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Bad@Thief: Kiera Gordon
Sea of Sorrows, a server never before so appropriately named.
Bad@Thief: Kiera Gordon
Sea of Sorrows, a server never before so appropriately named.
Or people on the 4-5 best spots and nobody anywhere else, creating an empty game. Lots of MMORGPs are like this, when the expansion is out everyone is playing at the new areas (which also offer higher character level) while the rest of the game slowly but surely becomes a barren wasteland.
Most, if not all, servers in GW2 are like this already. So it isn’t like the expansion would create a problem that doesn’t exist.
What do you recommend they do to upstart their sales? You might be asking why I case about their sales. I do because less sales = worst game. Period. It has gone down drastically in the last 2 quarters.
It won’t “create” a new problem but it will make a current problem that you admit exists even worse.
I don’t see how it would make it worse. Right now there are 4-5 places that most players are in the game. With an expansion there will be 4-5 places that most players are in the game.
Or people on the 4-5 best spots and nobody anywhere else, creating an empty game. Lots of MMORGPs are like this, when the expansion is out everyone is playing at the new areas (which also offer higher character level) while the rest of the game slowly but surely becomes a barren wasteland.
Most, if not all, servers in GW2 are like this already. So it isn’t like the expansion would create a problem that doesn’t exist.
What do you recommend they do to upstart their sales? You might be asking why I case about their sales. I do because less sales = worst game. Period. It has gone down drastically in the last 2 quarters.
It won’t “create” a new problem but it will make a current problem that you admit exists even worse.
Funny. Some people say the problem is players are all on the same spot other people say the problem is players would get split up (so not all be in the same spot). Personally I see them all being in the same spot as a problem.
Anyway. So the current problem according to you is they would all be in the same spot. With an expansion you are afraid they would also all move to the then best spot (not true if they don’t add higher level and gear btw). How that that make the problem bigger? It would just be a differed spot.
So thats an example where the cash-shop focus for income makes a compromise to the game quality. The quality of the game becomes lesser because they have to answer the question “How do we get people to buy gems”. Just like mini’s are now mainly gem-store related so going into the world colling them is gone..
The question “how to get people to keep buying expansion” simply results in a better game.
Thats why you would want to pay for expansions.. to get a better game.
There is this common perception that expansions will bring new landmasses like Cantha or Elona, and that expansions imply “quantity” in addition to “quality”. But if people are unhappy with the content of the Living Stories, there is no guarantee that consolidating all those content and releasing it in one single expansion will have any positive impact.
New landmasses have already been introduced via Southsun Cove and Labyrinthine Cliffs. Those could have easily been consolidated and released in an expansion as part of the Crystal Desert, but that would not change the actual content that is being played. If players didn’t like it now, they won’t like it in an expansion.
As for quality, here’s another perspective about the quality of hairstyles, using your example.
For a cash shop, new hairstyles have to be of a quality that would entice players to buy them. If the hairstyles were terrible, would any player fork out gems to get a makeover kit?
Now look at new hairstyles from the perspective of a new expansion. Would anyone buy an expansion just based on new hairstyles alone? I would think that people are going for something meatier than a new hairdo. That being the case, what incentive is there for devs to put any effort in creating new hairstyles for an expansion?
There is a strong case either way, whether you think cash shop based model or an expansion model will produce better quality.
But there are some ways the Living Story (which is basically a vehicle that drives cash shop sales) differs from an Expansion.
Expansions require significant resource and time to develop. If it takes Anet 12 months to develop an expansion, that’s 12 months without any revenue from said expansion. LS at 2 week intervals translates to revenue earned within a shorter period of time, which can then be allocated as resource for other purposes. The 2 week LS system offers far more liquidity.
Also, the MMO industry doesn’t occur in a vacuum. If you check the patch notes of major MMOs, most of them will show some activity or content patch before the release of a competitor.
WoW had content patches that coincided with the release of WAR, Aion, GW2. I imagine other MMOs have their own way of retaining players. If GW2 was expansion based, Anet’s competitors would not sit quietly either. From a business standpoint, there is a lot of dilution of market share.
But with a 2 week content patch, GW2 creates enough excitement to drive cash shop sales, while making it difficult for the competitors to match the speed of updates.
Of course, if every MMO had this rapid update model, then we are all back to square one. But as it stands, GW2 is in a very unique position.
So thats an example where the cash-shop focus for income makes a compromise to the game quality. The quality of the game becomes lesser because they have to answer the question “How do we get people to buy gems”. Just like mini’s are now mainly gem-store related so going into the world colling them is gone..
The question “how to get people to keep buying expansion” simply results in a better game.
Thats why you would want to pay for expansions.. to get a better game.
There is this common perception that expansions will bring new landmasses like Cantha or Elona, and that expansions imply “quantity” in addition to “quality”. But if people are unhappy with the content of the Living Stories, there is no guarantee that consolidating all those content and releasing it in one single expansion will have any positive impact.
Of course there is never a guarantee it will be better, you are correct there but like I did show with the barber examples. The fact is that because the game-design is no build around selling gems there are xome compromises for the game-quality that have to be done. With expansions that element is gone so it’s possible to make a better game. No guarantee but with those limitations away it can be better. Then it’s only hoping they will also make it better.
“For a cash shop, new hairstyles have to be of a quality that would entice players to buy them. If the hairstyles were terrible, would any player fork out gems to get a makeover kit?”
So you are basically saying.. they can get away with lesser quality hairstyles but if that was the way they would go it meant the whole expansions would be of a lower quality and that would not be in there best interest because then they would have problems selling the next expansion. So it’s not like they can now forget about if people want to buy stuff. Yes some of the stuff that now is in the gem-store could be of a lesser quality without anybody complaining but personally I would take that over the current approach.
But the overall expansion needs to be good for them to sell a second expansion.
“Would anyone buy an expansion just based on new hairstyles alone? I would think that people are going for something meatier than a new hairdo. “ that would also mean that the more important pars would get more priority then the less important parts. Isn’t that in fact something positive.
Beside I never denied there are no negative sides about a expansion focus for income by in my opinion overall it is the best compromise.
“Also, the MMO industry doesn’t occur in a vacuum. If you check the patch notes of major MMOs, most of them will show some activity or content patch before the release of a competitor. “ I am not expecting them to have nothing in-between the releases but it would be less then we see now. Then again I do expect the overall quality to go up like I said before.
“Of course, if every MMO had this rapid update model, then we are all back to square one. But as it stands, GW2 is in a very unique position.“
But is it unique in a good way. There are many complains about the living story and myself I also don’t like it so much. It really burn you out fast. Just separate form the whole B2P / F2P discussion. With a game based on expansions they are also pretty unique. So that would not change much I think. Games will always been competing each other and so far GW2 has been lucky. Since the release over a year ago the only other major release has been F14.
(edited by Devata.6589)
Arena Net said that they will release HUGE content patch next year
Absolutely not their too busy working on Wildstar to even give a puppy about furthering GW2.
Arena Net said that they will release HUGE content patch next year
They also said that this year. January/February patch was supposed to have content “equal to an expansion”.
“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides
– Euripides
Absolutely not their too busy working on Wildstar to even give a puppy about furthering GW2.
That’s not even the same studio… rolls eyes
I, for one, would love an expansion. What I loved about GW1 was that the world grew all the time and I had new places to explore. I don’t care whether or not it’s “more of the same”. GW2’s base gameplay is very solid. What I can do without is more gimmicky instance bosses and their “don’t stand in my red circles or you shall dieeeee” mechanics.
Tarnished Coast
That’s not even the same studio… rolls eyes
But the people WE pay and who pays ANet are. rolls eyes
Bad@Ele: Alaric Von Manstein
Bad@Thief: Kiera Gordon
Sea of Sorrows, a server never before so appropriately named.
Bad@Thief: Kiera Gordon
Sea of Sorrows, a server never before so appropriately named.
Arena Net said that they will release HUGE content patch next year
They also hyped the release of a new “dungeon” and then gave us the abomination that was Canach’s Lair.
Xpac is definitly not a solution. I’d be done with the game and play something else.
I was so happy when Cata came for WoW, I could finally put that game down for the rest of my life.
Arena Net said that they will release HUGE content patch next year
They also hyped the release of a new “dungeon” and then gave us the abomination that was Canach’s Lair.
What was so bad about it, use the bomb on him, dps, loot, gg. I prefer short dungeons.
Xpac is definitly not a solution. I’d be done with the game and play something else.
I was so happy when Cata came for WoW, I could finally put that game down for the rest of my life.
Very nice but if you also tell why that would be more interesting. Besides WoW had 3 expansions before Cata so it does not seem like expansions in general are the problem.
Arena Net said that they will release HUGE content patch next year
They also hyped the release of a new “dungeon” and then gave us the abomination that was Canach’s Lair.
What was so bad about it, use the bomb on him, dps, loot, gg. I prefer short dungeons.
Nothing to do with the gameplay mechanics. The problem was that it was advertised as a “dungeon” when it was no more than a one room mini-instance.
If that was a dungeon, then the words “HUGE content patch next year” are completely meaningless.
If you base you income on expansions (like GW1) you should do it faster once every year / year and a half.
And then you have a community spread all over the place, which was one of the main problems of the expansion system of GW1. Also, players not being able to play together was another big issue, I had loads of guildies with access only to Prophecies that couldn’t come to play Factions, while other newer players started with Factions. The regular expansion system has lots of benefits yes but it also has loads of drawbacks too.
Spreading the community might be a good thing because it means there are people everywhere not almost everybody in one spot. I also don’t see this problem in other mmo.. I mean I see the spreading, I don’t see the problem. In GW2 they are also spread out. BTW how did it spread the community in GW1? In GW1 you where always in instances.
Yes new members and directly after the release will not have full access true. But how long does it normally takes before people will buy the expansion, and the fact that other guild member can go there only is a reason for people to buy the expansion.
Of course it has benefits and drawbacks but if I put them next to P2P or F2P (so the income generated by a cash-shop) then the benefits of a B2P payment model where Anet focuses on expansions for income far outweighs the drawbacks.
The only thing they really need to be careful of is a pile of expansions that is a problem for new players. 5 expansions down the road it would become to expensive to start playing the game if you need to buy them all. Best way to do that is to work with a system where you have a little cheaper and a little more expensive expansion every time switching. Next you only require the original game and the last two expansions where the for-last expansion gives you access to all previous expansions.
DCUO does something along those lines: small expansions for 10euros with cool additions. Can play the majority of the game without, but they do contain good stuff, such a price is perhaps also more attractive and more people can buy that. But they do have a different business model so it might not work.
Do agree with ya, would never get a new acc on WoW for that reason alone (obviously theres more but w/e)
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