Guild Wars 2

Essentially, we all know you’re not going to go back on this. Assuming you double down and release Ascended gear for every slot, will that be the end of it? Will you continue to “bridge the gap” between Exotic and Legendary with more gear and stats? Will you add different ways to obtain Ascended gear other than the Forge and the new Dungeons?

Obviously I think continuing down this path will be disastrous and divisive for the game. You need to let people know so they can make their decisions now as to whether or not this game will be as much of a treadmill as the ones we left it for, so we can leave this accordingly.

They refuse to answer this. I think that’s your answer (no it isn’t).

Columba.9730:

(no it isn’t).

In all honesty we have no idea. However if people accept this Ascended gear like good little soliders, then you can bet more progression will be added at later dates. This was simply a test to see if you are willing to drink the kool-aid.

I honestly do not think so.

Why would you feel inclined to believe whatever they said about the future direction of the game at this point? Would “yes, it is the end of it” officially from ANET really put your mind at ease?

Silence is the confirmation of worries.
So i guess, its only the beginning.

You are free to live in denial as long as you wish.

If it was profitable this time, it will be the only way to go next time.

No, it isn’t.

I have absolutely no hard evidence to support this, but observations, experience and inferences based on official responses.

Speaking as someone who never makes these kinds of bets, I’ll quote Toby Ziegler from Season 2 of the West Wing, and “bet you all the money in my pocket, against all the money in your pockets,” that Ascended is not the end of it.

There seems to be some contradictory concepts involved with the Ascended implementation. On one hand, Anet reassures us that there will be a variety of ways to procure Ascended/Infusion gear and on the other hand, ANet said that Ascended gear was added because:

we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression.

So, how why would ANet attempt to make Ascended easily available when it would go counter to the reasoning for having the gear added in the first place?

This brings the whole gear grind tied to content gated progression concerns into focus. It is troubling.

I find it’s more troubling because it was largely avoidable:

The Infusion mechanic could have been handled like it was in the original Guild Wars: any gear could be infused. This would have made the progression and effort more reasonable.

It is but the infusions in ascended gear can go to ascended as well.

Fortuna.7259:

You are free to live in denial as long as you wish.

If it was profitable this time, it will be the only way to go next time.

I said it would be disastrous and divisive for the game if continued, after asking a series of questions. Where did you get denial from in my post, if you even read it which I hope you didn’t, as your comprehension was dismal if you did.

They haven’t answered yet but they made it clear they will be consistently adding more and more levels of infusions, which will in actuality be the first steps of the gear treadmill, since in fact the infusions have real stats on them, not just the dungeon resist

Bornthisway.4609:

Fortuna.7259:

You are free to live in denial as long as you wish.

If it was profitable this time, it will be the only way to go next time.

I said it would be disastrous and divisive for the game if continued, after asking a series of questions. Where did you get denial from in my post, if you even read it which I hope you didn’t, as your comprehension was dismal if you did.

My comprehension wasn’t dismal. Your question “will this be the end of it” is the essence of denial, I’m afraid.

Why would it be the end of it? Why would you trust the reply?

they said themselves this is just the beggining.

already learned not to link to or quote them or name them, so i can’t post where else they said they would not say ascended is the last of this.

logic dictates that if they do something once out of covnenience, they will do it again when they find it convenient.

whoever they are, which i will not confirm.

I hope not TC, i want my new weapons and armor. Finally have a reason to bring all my 80’s out of retirement.

There’s absolutely no way that Ascended equipment could ever be the last one. That would render every single Rune and Sigil in the game obsolete. Bare minimum, there’s going to have to be another tier where the Infusions are built in and the upgrade slot is used for a Rune.

seems like all rpgs/mmos constantly introduce more teirs as the game gets older. So yes ofc there will be more needless gear to farm for that extra couple stats then what you have now. Think its getting bad now…come back in 6 months lol.

There probably wont be another tier of gear added.

However they are planning on adding new tiers of Infusions. Infusions are the mechanic they have stated that from this point in the games evolution will be the bases of all new content.

The Infusions will gain in power (stats Agony resistance, etc) and continue to be a bigger time sink

No new gear just new Infusions

Arreyanne.2683:

There probably wont be another tier of gear added.

However they are planning on adding new tiers of Infusions. Infusions are the mechanic they have stated that from this point in the games evolution will be the bases of all new content.

The Infusions will gain in power (stats Agony resistance, etc) and continue to be a bigger time sink

No new gear just new Infusions

What’s the difference when infusions have stats on them (beside the agony resistance)? It’s the same thing.

Well that’s my £59.99 wasted. I bought this game for the fact there is no gear treadmill. I am not even 80 , This is the first MMO where I took my time and enjoying the content to have fun at the end once I reach 80. Not spending days rushing the levels to start of progression, Been there done that.

Do exploration and the random dungeon and be all casual. I have done the hardcore gear grinds in the past and when this game said there was not going to be any I was like “finally something I can take my time and enjoy”

Now this has been done they can forget it. If I want a gear grind I can go back to wow.

Such a shame, This game has such promise for the casuals and now this.

They explicitly refused to say that this will be the end of it because they might end up lying again on the German forums.

From the update notes:
“Ascended rarity falls between Exotics and Legendaries on the rarity spectrum.”
Ascended is only tier 2 of 3 planned tiers.

Arreyanne.2683:

Infusions are the mechanic they have stated that from this point in the games evolution will be the bases of all new content.

If you believe this, you’re fairly naive and unimaginative. How are infusion slots any different from rune/gem/sigil slots? Oh, they’re not….

Oh I completely agree Ballistic,

However the company and their PR people have been quite vocal anout there won’t be another tier of gear between Exotic and Legendary .

This is the only one. It’s just tickles me that everyone says gear, they aren’t going to need another set of gear. Why?

Think about how much time they would have to invest in skinning, blah blah blah, with infusions you just change the color on the icon add a few stats and bingo new improved.

And the reason i get a chuckle out of everyone saying gear, is to me it just sounds like they miss the entire point. There will be no new gear just that shiny little Infusion. Of course you’ll have to go through whatever dog and pony show they invent to get that shiny new Infusion.

Let me list the amount of gear and upgrades they are planning to add to the game over the course of the next months and years:

Ascended Armor(6 pieces)
Ascended Accessories(6 items)
Fine Infusions*¹
Masterwork Infusions*¹
Rare Infusions*¹
Exotic Infusions*¹
Ascended Infusions*¹

*¹ – You need 12 infusions to completely upgrade a set of gear.

That is what their new system can handle. As you can see, they have enough room to keep devaluing your max gear for years to come.

Wilky.7521:

If you believe this, you’re fairly naive and unimaginative. How are infusion slots any different from rune/gem/sigil slots? Oh, they’re not….

Adding a new infusion tier after you farmed the best one for your gear is like adding a new tier of runes beyond “Superior”. The fact that matters is that they spread out the release of tiers of upgrades to keep bumping your gear down from 100% effectiveness to 95%. That is the gear treadmill. Even if infusions just carry an agony resistance stat: Once the next tier is released, the work you put in getting the previous one will be devalued. Numbers don’t matter, it could be a 1% difference between tiers and still be a treadmill.

Wilky.7521:

Arreyanne.2683:

Infusions are the mechanic they have stated that from this point in the games evolution will be the bases of all new content.

If you believe this, you’re fairly naive and unimaginative. How are infusion slots any different from rune/gem/sigil slots? Oh, they’re not….

Actually, you seem to be missing something:

• Infusion is only available on Ascended and Legendary gear.

• Infused gear is mandatory to progress in Fractals of the Mist and future content

• Ascended gear, unlike exotics, has a very narrowly defined procurement method

Runes, Gems or Sigils do not in any way equate to the Infusion/Agony mechanic.

Sadly, we don’t have a reliable source for this kind of information, lol.

Arreyanne.2683:

However the company and their PR people have been quite vocal anout there won’t be another tier of gear between Exotic and Legendary .

Actually it’s the opposite. They’ve been very careful and specific in saying that they’re not saying that there won’t be another tier of gear. (The clarity of the previous sentence is ArenaNet’s communication on the subject in microcosm.)

It’s obvious that Infusions aren’t their solution to the problem. If that were the case, then there was no need for Ascended equipment in the first place – Infusions could just have the same (or higher) stats than Exotic Jewel upgrades, plus Agony Resistance, and you could just slot them into your existing Exotic armour.

Wilky.7521:

Arreyanne.2683:

Infusions are the mechanic they have stated that from this point in the games evolution will be the bases of all new content.

If you believe this, you’re fairly naive and unimaginative. How are infusion slots any different from rune/gem/sigil slots? Oh, they’re not….

OH Can I slot any of those Infusions into my Exotic gear…. Let me check brb

Nope sorry cant,

I don’t think it can be. The same people who asked for gear progression, will ask again when they get all the gear. There is no reason to believe that they will not listen to them.

They can’t answer, Cause if something changes from the answer. People think they can ask for refunds.

So they have to say nothing and what ever happens happens.

Gao Gao.4973:

What a horrible turn of events for this game.

Horrible? I thought people wanted gear progression. I must have been living under the rock.

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

Rooks Zaer.5846:

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

But with ascended gear idea both sides are satisfied. Content locusts will farm fractals while everyone else will work on their exotics. Isn’t that a beautiful design?

haviz.1340:

Rooks Zaer.5846:

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

But with ascended gear idea both sides are satisfied. Content locusts will farm fractals while everyone else will work on their exotics. Isn’t that a beautiful design?

exotics aren’t nearly as good as the ascended. why bother to work on exotics now?

Columba.9730:

haviz.1340:

Rooks Zaer.5846:

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

But with ascended gear idea both sides are satisfied. Content locusts will farm fractals while everyone else will work on their exotics. Isn’t that a beautiful design?

exotics aren’t nearly as good as the ascended. why bother to work on exotics now?

Because the content has been gated. You will need exotics if you want to pug fractals. Also, some exotics looks nice!

I hate fractals. I just want to wvwvw with equal gear.

Rooks Zaer.5846:

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

Wrong !!!! nobody specifically said they wanted a gear grind, they just wanted something meaningful to do once they reached level cap, instead of farming plinx over and over……and Anet in its panicked, unimaginative state, and all the while hemorrhaging players, decided what we have now was the answer.

You are also wrong about GW1 players, they were some of the most vocal looking for change…they largely felt that in GW1 you could happily play at any level and still be doing something meaningful, unlike GW2…..its just that Anets answer was way of the mark.

Please stop with your silly “WoW” generalisation, it just makes you look silly and uninformed….most players came here from WoW, rift, DDO, LOTRO, LoL etc because they were looking for what Anet promised…and failed to deliver.

Robbyx.1284:

Rooks Zaer.5846:

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

Wrong !!!! nobody specifically said they wanted a gear grind, they just wanted something meaningful to do once they reached level cap, instead of farming plinx over and over……and Anet in its panicked, unimaginative state, and all the while hemorrhaging players, decided what we have now was the answer.

You are also wrong about GW1 players, they were some of the most vocal looking for change…they largely felt that in GW1 you could happily play at any level and still be doing something meaningful, unlike GW2…..its just that Anets answer was way of the mark.

Please stop with your silly “WoW” generalisation, it just makes you look silly and uninformed….most players came here from WoW, rift, DDO, LOTRO, LoL etc because they were looking for what Anet promised…and failed to deliver.

They delivered it mostly. With bait & switch.

Robbyx.1284:

Rooks Zaer.5846:

The people that picked up the game blindly without researching it at all want gear progression. Whatever will tide them over until the next WoW patch or FF14 or whatever comes out next.

The GW1 fans and the crowd of people that don’t want to play another version of WoW (people who have been following the game for years) did not want this. And we would have been way more vocal earlier if we had -any- reason to expect that this could possibly get dropped on us out of the blue.

Wrong !!!! nobody specifically said they wanted a gear grind, they just wanted something meaningful to do once they reached level cap, instead of farming plinx over and over……and Anet in its panicked, unimaginative state, and all the while hemorrhaging players, decided what we have now was the answer.

You are also wrong about GW1 players, they were some of the most vocal looking for change…they largely felt that in GW1 you could happily play at any level and still be doing something meaningful, unlike GW2…..its just that Anets answer was way of the mark.

Please stop with your silly “WoW” generalisation, it just makes you look silly and uninformed….most players came here from WoW, rift, DDO, LOTRO, LoL etc because they were looking for what Anet promised…and failed to deliver.

That could very well be that no one asked for it. But I see a lot of “you asked for this didn’t you?” on the forums. I don’t know…I’m not a part of that group.

I’m a GW1 player that was happy with the fact that I could participate in WvW…and infact did so starting from level 21. I don’t know where the complaints regarding inability of doing something meaningful comes from. What sorts of things can you do in GW1 at level 5 that you can’t do in GW2?

I don’t think we disagree on the 3rd part. A big part of their fanbase I think are the people coming from WoW and WoW-like games not wanting to play yet another one…and being lured by the whole “we don’t want to build the same MMO that everyone else is building” part of the manifesto.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/You-NEED-to-make-a-statement

^Basically, I echo the sentiment of the OP.

haviz.1340:

Gao Gao.4973:

What a horrible turn of events for this game.

Horrible? I thought people wanted gear progression. I must have been living under the rock.

Who wanted this exactly? I know it wasn’t me nor the people who made 10k+ posts in that one thread.

I’m quitting the game if a tier above ascended is announced.

I can look past the flagrant lies and broken promises this patch is founded on because of how fun the new dungeon is and the economy changes. Not again though.

It sure would be nice to know this from a Dev that way we can act with reason about what their intent for the game in fact is.

This silence from Anet is quite disturbing. If I don’t hear from Anet what their plans are for this game within my window for refund I will presume the worst of them and get a refund and leave.

Zinthros.6589:

I’m quitting the game if a tier above ascended is announced.

Question for you: Are you aware that they are planning to release new infusion rarities that would devalue the ones you are able to get now, and that you’d have to farm 12 of them to stay as powerful(relatively to the rest of the gear) as possible?

They don’t even need to add a new tier – releasing infusion tiers have enough treadmilling potential as it is.

if they do something out of convenience one time, they will do it again the next time it becomes convenient to do so.

No, it won’t be the end in my opinion. What I see happening here resembles very much the Lotro f2p system(they even have the chest idea from there).

The principle of this is, besides from providing the migrated population a vertical progress oriented part, to ensure the use of the gem store.

Lower the drop rates for mats, introduce costly recipes which are an improvement for your gear = buy or grind for a long time.

Introduce tiers in regular intervals, to construct a time frame in which it makes sense to get the gear = buy or grind fast with an immense time consumption to get the gear without using the shop.

That’s what most f2p games are build around.