Guild Wars 2

Found an interesting article with quotes from the Arenanet Global Director

http://game-guide-review.blogspot.com/2012/05/arenanet-director-tells-why-guild-wars.html

He emphasizes that GW2 is trying to introduce a different MMO, one that does not copy WOW foundational design. Is the change to “gear stat progression” making GW2 different from traditional MMOs?

Horizontal progression is an alternative to the WOW model. Why abandon it?

“Why these games have failed in their mission? Even Star Wars: The Old Republic, with all the machinery of Electronic Arts behind him and that $ 200 million development cost has been losing subscribers.

As most experts agree is that these games, despite obvious differences, follow the same formula as WoW established there in 2004 (although it is not by far the inventor of these mechanics) so it’s hard to excel in a genre where the pattern appears and is checked.

That’s why Christopher Lye, ArenaNet’s global director thinks the only way to be a real alternative is to break some paradigms, take risks and try something truly different, and this is what it purports to Guild Wars 2."

99% of the game is the same to how it was 1 week ago.

1% of the game has now caused upset.

It literally makes no sense. You can choose not to get the new gear, or wait until it is available via different means. Everyone has chosen to spam the forums instead.

Good work guys.

When the 99% is discarded because you only get “top tiered good stuff” from the 1%, we do get upset.

It’s like if you had a mansion but were forced to live in the shanty mold infested room with no heating. People could kitten “Sure but you still live in a mansion”, for the good it does you locked in the room you hate.

GADefence.5634:

When the 99% is discarded because you only get “top tiered good stuff” from the 1%, we do get upset.

It’s like if you had a mansion but were forced to live in the shanty mold infested room with no heating. People could kitten “Sure but you still live in a mansion”, for the good it does you locked in the room you hate.

You can’t have it both ways dude.

You can’t say “I don’t want a vertical stat progression of gear” and in the same sentence say “I want the new gear to be available to me too”. That is being a hypocrite.

You can either go for it now (or later, when new avenues to persue it arrive), or ignore it.

You can’t have it both ways.

“You can’t say “I don’t want a vertical stat progression of gear” and in the same sentence say “I want the new gear to be available to me too”. That is being a hypocrite.”

Do I really need to bust out the english as a second language site this early? I didn’t say anything about what you qutoed.

If I had to pick, I’d want the new gear removed. Alternatively, all of us getting is basically for free would be a comprimise if no new gear was added.

I’m telling you why everyone is angry over the new 1%.

While some apparently don’t distract themselves by engaging with the issues, a lot has changed in the last week. All you need to do is read the manifesto, then read the introduction, and limited defense, of the Ascended gear. They said they introduced the Ascended gear to give players a sense of progression. This is called power creep. It does give the simple a sense of progression but more and more players realize when everyone hops on the treadmill and the mobs get stronger, no one has made any real progress. So, Anet knew this and marketed GW2 hard as a non-grindy game. How they could introduce a gear grind treadmill and call it “progression” is beyond me. So, yes, the game has changed in a fundamental way in the last week. One of the consequences is you can’t read the manifesto with a straight face and the manifesto describes how the game is unique in the world of MMO’s.

I’m a horizontal fan. Or more accurately, I’m not a fan of Starbelly Sneetches and ’Mer’ca (though I’m stuck here and probably too old to repatriate). So you know where I’m coming from before reading on.

Maybe what they aren’t telling us is that after watching the posts and seeing people leave, that they realize that we’re all a bunch of greedy kitties that would take candy from a baby if we were absolutely certain we could get away with it?

And for some strange reason, the PBS adaptation in the late 70s of Ursula K. Le Guin’s The Lathe of Heaven just popped in my head. Minds are funny.

Yes, it is a different MMORPG as it has taken a fundamental change in direction with the implementation of the lamest possible model for “progression”:

Stats addition based gear-progression or Vertical Progression, call it however you want. The consequence is Power Creep.

Just to expand on my comment:

There’s no such thing as “progression” in the “Stats Addition based” model as your gear stats are always aligned with the mobs’ stats. It’s an illusion, smoke and mirrors. The counterback is that it creates serious unbalance both in the open world and in pvp, makes content obsolete and linearizes the game experience, making it more of an Arcade (ala WoW and its clones) than a true MMORPG (persistent world concept).

In any case, it’s been made abundantly clear (despite the fanatics that don’t want or cannot understand) that Anet has officially killed the “all the game is endgame” concept and has blatantly lied to its customers.

((Edit: Typos))

@Southern Lord totaly agree. There was always a stats difference between masterwork, rare, exotic etc. What Anet doesn’t want is a situation where a bad player can always beat a pro player given the highest gear. A MMO without any kind of improvement of gear is like sim city without sims.

People act like it is the end of the world and like Anet did something really evil. Chill, relax, take it easy. Its all a game, not RL.

Also, still a big difference is that there is no subscription and still you get additional content. And ofc some principles of WoW are followed, it is after all 1 of the biggest successes in the MMO history. Any designer will take what is good and improve what is bad.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback but please stay on topic. They have already locked one of my other posts. Do not want to give them a reason to lock this one.

I would really like someone to explain if they believe adding “gear stat progression” makes GW2 distinct now, a different MMO. And if you feel it does not, why not.

Doesn’t seem like a different MMO to me. I log on, play a character, run dynamic events and do hearts, buy stuff from the trading post, etc. Doesn’t seem like anything has changed too much in that respect.

dalendria.3762:

I appreciate everyone’s feedback but please stay on topic. They have already locked one of my other posts. Do not want to give them a reason to lock this one.

I would really like someone to explain if they believe adding “gear stat progression” makes GW2 distinct now, a different MMO. And if you feel it does not, why not.

All I’ll say is this:

As a level 13 Thief, I am looking forward to earning better weapons and items for my class. I want this feeling to last until level 80. I am also excited that there is now gear for me to aim towards, that is not mandatory for every player, and is entirely optional.

GADefence.5634:

“You can’t say “I don’t want a vertical stat progression of gear” and in the same sentence say “I want the new gear to be available to me too”. That is being a hypocrite.”

Do I really need to bust out the english as a second language site this early? I didn’t say anything about what you qutoed.

If I had to pick, I’d want the new gear removed. Alternatively, all of us getting is basically for free would be a comprimise if no new gear was added.

I’m telling you why everyone is angry over the new 1%.

its just the car it was yesterday…its only that in the place of the engines we put some pedals because people asked the car to pollute less.
But hey outside its the same …..

Also don t spread misinformation…there s nothing “optional” about ascended gear…..it cuts out part of pve and gives you a 20% handicap in wvwvw……(that is not zergfest if you play it correctly).

Southern Lord.7254:

You can’t have it both ways dude.

You can’t say “I don’t want a vertical stat progression of gear” and in the same sentence say “I want the new gear to be available to me too”. That is being a hypocrite.

Nope. I can say “I want to have easy access to top tier eq”. That means both, without any sort of hypocrisy. I don’t want that new tier in the game, but if it IS in the game, then i want it to be easily accessible, because that solves the main problem with that eq – hamster wheel.
By the way, for all the people that say that i can ignore the new eq: What would you say if the same eq was accessible both through heavy grind in the new content, or cheaply and easily from the karma vendor in LA? That shouldn’t be a problem to you, right, since you could always just ignore the vendor.

dalendria.3762:

I appreciate everyone’s feedback but please stay on topic. They have already locked one of my other posts. Do not want to give them a reason to lock this one.

I would really like someone to explain if they believe adding “gear stat progression” makes GW2 distinct now, a different MMO. And if you feel it does not, why not.

In my opinion, it would seem to be a fundamental shift in a fairly major game mechanic, so yes. Maybe not NGE-changing, but still a pretty big shift. And only because it’s allowed to impact WvW.

If the concept was to create a dungeon and raid tiering system for those people that like to do that sort of thing as progression, and it only impacted that environment (and PvE…I wouldn’t mind super-gods helping us out with DEs out in the world!), and it was isolated like that, then I wouldn’t consider it too game changing, because it wouldn’t impact someone who chooses not to participate in that sort of content.

But because it impacts WvW, it would ‘seem’ like it might create a have/have-nots scenario and impact people in other areas because they chose not to participate in that sort of game play. That is what makes it game changing, in my eyes.

At the same time, I think it’s too early to tell, and I’m willing to not participate and see if 2-3 months down the road whether it impacts whether I’m still useful and can have fun in WvW or not.

Hopefully that helps your ‘stay on topic’ cause?

If I wanted ‘stat progression’ I would have re-activated my WoW account. I wanted the GW1/2 philosophy, hence why I gave money to Anet and not WoW. Will see which direction Anet takes and make my decision from there.

notebene.3190:

But because it impacts WvW, it would ‘seem’ like it might create a have/have-nots scenario and impact people in other areas because they chose not to participate in that sort of game play. That is what makes it game changing, in my eyes.

I haven’t been paying very close attention to Ascended, so had been assuming Infusions were only for Agony events and that other, Ascended gear was only 4-6% better stats than Exotics.

Is that what affects WvW (where 4-6% can add up to a lot when one side has more players in it than the other)? Or is there something else about Ascended I am missing?

Is Guild Wars 2 a Different MMO Now….

Well yes and No, It appears to be heading in a direction that’s not for me. Arena Net is reluctant to give us a clear picture of the future so I’m not investing in a game that maybe will course correct.

But here’s how I see it has changed or is changing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/first

It’s still horizontally based progression. Yes, they’ve added a tier between exotics and legendaries to fill a time-to-acquire gap, but they’re beautifully positioned now to expand laterally in the future with additional sets of ascended gear, introducing legendary gear (and more sets of legendary in the future) as well as adding new infusions to customize ascended (and legendary) gear down the road. Here’s how I see it now, and may ANet smack me with the Hammer of Idiocy if I’m wrong:

Exotic gear: Level 80 high end gear that’s easy to obtain and sets you up to handle practically all content (save, currently, high end fractals). Can be achieved practically as soon as you hit level 80.

Ascended gear: Moderate time to acquire end game gear. You have to work a bit for it, but the lightly enhanced stats and the need for agony resistance to progress deeper into the Fractals will make it worth the time investment for many people.

Legendary gear: Quit your day job, you’ll need the time to fully set yourself up with these items. Currently weapons only, but I’d personally expect to see legendary armors and the like in the future as well. Stats may be comparable to ascended or slightly better still. Won’t be necessary for any exclusive content… it’s pretty much purely for show of dedication. May require multiple Gifts of Ascension, for example (it should be able to be infused, after all… people will want to wear it in fractals).

I like this set up. It allows even more casual players to get the gear they need for the vast majority of the content (let’s be honest, not too many casuals will be deep in the Fractals, and if they are they’ll be getting the gear to run Fractals), it allows more “hard core” people a tier to work for and there’s still the beacons glow of Legendary items out there for us all to fantasize about.

If they hold fast at these tier levels and don’t add more later I think they’ve ultimately nailed down perfectly exactly what they’ve said all along… no endless carrot on a stick grind yet enough gear to progress towards to satisfy most people.

delmarqo.5038:

notebene.3190:

But because it impacts WvW, it would ‘seem’ like it might create a have/have-nots scenario and impact people in other areas because they chose not to participate in that sort of game play. That is what makes it game changing, in my eyes.

I haven’t been paying very close attention to Ascended, so had been assuming Infusions were only for Agony events and that other, Ascended gear was only 4-6% better stats than Exotics.

Is that what affects WvW (where 4-6% can add up to a lot when one side has more players in it than the other)? Or is there something else about Ascended I am missing?

Infusions can give a +5 to a single stat aswell, but otherwise you are correct. Fortunately for WvW it’s already very unbalanced, and the stats will not win over strategy, communication, and actual skill. Coordinated servers will always win regardless of Ascended.

tkalamba.2541:

delmarqo.5038:

notebene.3190:

But because it impacts WvW, it would ‘seem’ like it might create a have/have-nots scenario and impact people in other areas because they chose not to participate in that sort of game play. That is what makes it game changing, in my eyes.

I haven’t been paying very close attention to Ascended, so had been assuming Infusions were only for Agony events and that other, Ascended gear was only 4-6% better stats than Exotics.

Is that what affects WvW (where 4-6% can add up to a lot when one side has more players in it than the other)? Or is there something else about Ascended I am missing?

Infusions can give a +5 to a single stat aswell, but otherwise you are correct. Fortunately for WvW it’s already very unbalanced, and the stats will not win over strategy, communication, and actual skill. Coordinated servers will always win regardless of Ascended.

Not only that, but a level 2 on a ballista will still rip your 80 in Ascended a new one.

I’m currently running in lvl80 greens and I don’t do dungeons and I play PvDoor in WvW, so the game has not changed for me at all.

VOLKON.1290:

tkalamba.2541:

delmarqo.5038:

notebene.3190:

But because it impacts WvW, it would ‘seem’ like it might create a have/have-nots scenario and impact people in other areas because they chose not to participate in that sort of game play. That is what makes it game changing, in my eyes.

I haven’t been paying very close attention to Ascended, so had been assuming Infusions were only for Agony events and that other, Ascended gear was only 4-6% better stats than Exotics.

Is that what affects WvW (where 4-6% can add up to a lot when one side has more players in it than the other)? Or is there something else about Ascended I am missing?

Infusions can give a +5 to a single stat aswell, but otherwise you are correct. Fortunately for WvW it’s already very unbalanced, and the stats will not win over strategy, communication, and actual skill. Coordinated servers will always win regardless of Ascended.

Not only that, but a level 2 on a ballista will still rip your 80 in Ascended a new one.

Exactly, Besides, you really shouldn’t be finding yourself in many 1v1 situations in WvW for your individual stats to mean much.

Gw2 is definitely not a different MMO now then it was last week unfortunitely some people percieve it as such and I think thats the biggest problem!

I get side tracked so much I still only have 3 exotic parts to my armor set (am including accessories here) so I got 3 exotic and 8 rare parts on my armor set which is a much bigger gap then a full set of exotic → a full set of ascended armor yet even with me not being a PvP player I can still get my monthly 50 WvW kills in a couple of hours and die no more then 5 – 10 times doing it!

sure better gear gives you a small edge on paper but is that edge so big to have any impact on the game? no really in my opinion!

people are afraid this change will introduce progression / power creep but at least for me I dont see what the ascended gear is needed for except for the FoTM dungeon where the whole thing is centered and thats only after at least level 10 so as such you’re not even bared from that.

And as regards power creep the only thing so far I’ve seen introduce power creep are the people who are afraid of power creep themselves. If you’re the sort of player who just has to have the best stuff, if you’re the sort of player who just has to be 100% efficient all of the time you’re not going to do level 1 – 79 content because it just doesnt pay as much as farming with a zerg level 80 content. Such a person is the one making older content irellevant not the game! Ascended armor or not ascended armor for me personally its still fun playing the whole game! so at least for me, absolutely nothing changed, except there is more fun content to play!

VOLKON.1290:

Ascended gear: Moderate time to acquire end game gear. You have to work a bit for it, but the lightly enhanced stats and the need for agony resistance to progress deeper into the Fractals will make it worth the time investment for many people.

moderate time……..

200 skillpoints, 26 soulbound rare drops (i still have to see 1 after 10+ hours of farming dungeons), 850 tier 6 materials, and i dunno how many ectoplasm

Are really comparable to any Korean grinding game……

And i never heard, that a korean mmorpg required “moderate amount of time” to gear your character…..

P.S: i forgot those 2 fractal lvl 30 ascended ring with resistance……that are really rare drops it seems…..in the perfect korean mmorpg style….

LordByron.8369:

VOLKON.1290:

Ascended gear: Moderate time to acquire end game gear. You have to work a bit for it, but the lightly enhanced stats and the need for agony resistance to progress deeper into the Fractals will make it worth the time investment for many people.

moderate time……..

200 skillpoints, 26 soulbound rare drops (i still have to see 1 after 10+ hours of farming dungeons), 850 tier 6 materials, and i dunno how many ectoplasm

Are really comparable to any Korean grinding game……

And i never heard, that a korean mmorpg required “moderate amount of time” to gear your character…..

P.S: i forgot those 2 fractal lvl 30 ascended ring with resistance……that are really rare drops it seems…..in the perfect korean mmorpg style….

850 tier6 drops? you only need one stack of 250….

proper recipe here
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/17/gw2-ascended-gear-and-infusion-recipes/

Thats not too difficult to get.

Its not a gear treadmill with only this minor set
After you obtain it, there wont be any better, like ANet said.

Gear treadmill players that have already quit wont come back, nothing has changed.
The ones leaving now are the ones that tried to force themselves into thinking they enjoyed the game but now got an excuse to leave.

The power creep in this game is small. I’m fairly certain that was what was always intended. It seems to anyone that isn’t obsessing about taking a marketing campaign super-literally would assume such. Power creep existed before ascended, and it was clear to a lot of players, intelligent people (not locusts, whatever that is supposed to mean), that future updates would install this miniscule bit of power creep into endgame.

A lack of endgame content was what killed SWtoR, for the most part. There were players who found fully-voiced story to be annoying, players who didn’t like the PVE or the PvP, but for the most part, getting to the end and then having nothing to motivate players was what put the game on the track to F2P.

Guild Wars 2 is the best MMO out there whether or not you enjoy power creep, in my opinion. I think there’s such a vocal group of upset people on the forums who assume they’re in majority. I’ve not seen the ghost towns that people keep talking about, I’m not seeing enough people quit where I notice any change in event participation.

Southern Lord.7254:

99% of the game is the same to how it was 1 week ago.

1% of the game has now caused upset.

It literally makes no sense. You can choose not to get the new gear, or wait until it is available via different means. Everyone has chosen to spam the forums instead.

Good work guys.

It’s because that 1% represents a dramatic shift in design philosophy that flatly contradicts the manifesto that ArenaNet loudly trumpeted when marketing this game. There’s really no doubt that future content will feature similar gating through arbitrary gear checks that will take considerable time and effort to overcome, and many of us who bought Guild Wars 2 based on promises of casual-friendly grind-free gameplay are reasonably upset about it.

I applaud the steps they’ve taken to remove elements that are too similar to the WoW formula. Problem is, I kind of expected them to add new elements of their own, to make up the difference.

Instead, it’s kind of like they took the carrot off the stick, and now, we’re just left with a stick. It’s not really an improvement.

Mountain Man.7901:

Southern Lord.7254:

99% of the game is the same to how it was 1 week ago.

1% of the game has now caused upset.

It literally makes no sense. You can choose not to get the new gear, or wait until it is available via different means. Everyone has chosen to spam the forums instead.

Good work guys.

It’s because that 1% represents a dramatic shift in design philosophy that flatly contradicts the manifesto that ArenaNet loudly trumpeted when marketing this game. There’s really no doubt that future content will feature similar gating through arbitrary gear checks that will take considerable time and effort to overcome, and many of us who bought this Guild Wars 2 based on promises of grind-free gameplay are reasonably upset about it.

No it doesn’t. You’re grotesquely overreacting here. I’ve explained it earlier in this thread, unfortunately people choose to ignore common sense and instead regurgitate unfounded arguments. They do not contradict the manifesto in any way, shape or form. There is no carrot on a stick being introduced… these are carrots you can actually reach (in time) and there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable. You have exotics, the quick gear. You have ascended, the gear that takes a moderate amount of time to get and has minor improvements to help entice people to go for it. And you have legendaries. You’ll most likely see these tiers fixed now, with lateral progression within the tiers (new ascended sets with new infusions, legendary gear may be introduced). You won’t see “hyper legendary godly” gear coming in a future release that renders all legendaries obsolete.

It’s a nice system. You can have a sense of progression, and they’re eliminating the endless gear treadmill as promised. All you have to do is step back from the emotional hyper-reactions and look at the system logically. There’s an elegance built into it now that can last for years to come.

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

delmarqo.5038:

notebene.3190:

But because it impacts WvW, it would ‘seem’ like it might create a have/have-nots scenario and impact people in other areas because they chose not to participate in that sort of game play. That is what makes it game changing, in my eyes.

I haven’t been paying very close attention to Ascended, so had been assuming Infusions were only for Agony events and that other, Ascended gear was only 4-6% better stats than Exotics.

Is that what affects WvW (where 4-6% can add up to a lot when one side has more players in it than the other)? Or is there something else about Ascended I am missing?

It can reach above 10% stat difference on an eq piece, and infusions have stats on them. So far no more than +5, but those are blue infusions. Also, all future content was announced to be based around ascended gear.

VOLKON.1290:

It’s still horizontally based progression. Yes, they’ve added a tier between exotics and legendaries to fill a time-to-acquire gap, but they’re beautifully positioned now to expand laterally in the future with additional sets of ascended gear, introducing legendary gear (and more sets of legendary in the future) as well as adding new infusions to customize ascended (and legendary) gear down the road. Here’s how I see it now, and may ANet smack me with the Hammer of Idiocy if I’m wrong

With all due respect: This statement is contradictory in the extreme. (bold is mine)

I suspect that either you havn’t put too much thought into it or you just have no clue on what you’re talking about.

Southern Lord.7254:

99% of the game is the same to how it was 1 week ago.

1% of the game has now caused upset.

It literally makes no sense. You can choose not to get the new gear, or wait until it is available via different means. Everyone has chosen to spam the forums instead.

Good work guys.

You have those figures backwards, here I’ll fix it.

99% of the game is now a gear treadmill. And here’s how.

Crafting is now obsolete. With their stealth nerf to drops, their stealth nerf to MF, their stealth nerf to globs one cannot effectively gather the mats needed to craft end game items. Now mats to make even the new infused runes can only be found in this single dungeon and no recipes to make armor pieces exist. They promised us they would in the spirit of horizontal progression. Watch the menifesto.

Crafting is dead.

With karma nerfed now, one cannot effectively gather enough to get the sets one needs to armor mains let alone alts without a huge grind. This new armor set is the only thing people are now interested in, so we can’t find enough people to actually form large enough groups to do Orr anymore to even buy them if we got enough karma after weeks of farming the few events that do exist.

Karma is dead.

The armor pieces for this set not only cannot be purchased after running a few runs, but are ALL RNG, a system everyone knows does not work and that has been left behind by soooo many other devs in mmo’s everywhere for it’s horrible system.

So I’m not sure which game you are playing, but GW2 is nothing like it was and the only thing that most of us CAN do is tell Anet why they might not see us in the coming weeks on their game until these game breaking concepts are fixed or removed. It’s no exaggeration when it’s true and factual.

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading this wrong. This is exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is horizontal progression, not vertical. More infusions and ascended items is expanding the tier horizontally, not pushing a vertical treadmill. I stand by my statement and use your quote as evidence… there’s no indication that they’ll keep pushing out new tiers of gear and having you perpetually chase the uncatchable.

Tusuri.3178:

VOLKON.1290:

It’s still horizontally based progression. Yes, they’ve added a tier between exotics and legendaries to fill a time-to-acquire gap, but they’re beautifully positioned now to expand laterally in the future with additional sets of ascended gear, introducing legendary gear (and more sets of legendary in the future) as well as adding new infusions to customize ascended (and legendary) gear down the road. Here’s how I see it now, and may ANet smack me with the Hammer of Idiocy if I’m wrong

With all due respect: This statement is contradictory in the extreme. (bold is mine)

I suspect that either you havn’t put too much thought into it or you just have no clue on what you’re talking about.

More ascended gear along the same tier. Similar stats, new skins, new infusions. It’s not that complicated. FotM ascended gear will be comparable to new ascended gear from the next dungeon, but there will likely be new infusions to go for. Instead of agony gear, maybe vampiric gear or something. Similar stats, different mechanic to account for.

Southern Lord.7254:

99% of the game is the same to how it was 1 week ago.

1% of the game has now caused upset.

How have you come to the conclusion that end game gear, something that a majority of mmo players strive for counts for 1% of the game?

Besides, it’s not about how much of the game they have changed in 1 patch, it’s the promises they have broken. I bought this game because the idea of everyone having the same stats on their gear was very very appealing. If I’d have known they’d have gone back on such a huge promise, they’d have never got my money in the first place.

VOLKON.1290:

More ascended gear along the same tier. Similar stats, new skins, new infusions. It’s not that complicated. FotM ascended gear will be comparable to new ascended gear from the next dungeon, but there will likely be new infusions to go for. Instead of agony gear, maybe vampiric gear or something. Similar stats, different mechanic to account for.

Yes so a year from now if I want to be able to do all the difficulty levels in all the dungeon I’ll need a collection of infusions.

Please.

That’s just lazy design. Instead of finding a better way to continually increase the difficulty of these dungeons, they settled for gating mechanics that require a lot less work: adding some items which don’t even have a skin to their database as opposed to finding new and interesting dungeon mechanics that could scale with difficulty.

I hate WoW’s gear threadmill, but on the topic of making encounters interesting and challenging, ArenaNet has a lot to learn from Blizzard.

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading this wrong. This is exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is horizontal progression, not vertical. More infusions and ascended items is expanding the tier horizontally, not pushing a vertical treadmill. I stand by my statement and use your quote as evidence… there’s no indication that they’ll keep pushing out new tiers of gear and having you perpetually chase the uncatchable.

I am not reading it wrong. They explicitly state that the current Ascended gear and infusions are only “the first level” (read tier) and that they plan to “build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”.

The only way that could be any more clear is if they outright admitted that they’re adding an endless gear-grind and vertical progression to the game. That they’re doing this after selling the game on the promise that the end-game would be based around horizontal progression is a slap in the face to their customers.

ProphetSword.5427:

Doesn’t seem like a different MMO to me. I log on, play a character, run dynamic events and do hearts, buy stuff from the trading post, etc. Doesn’t seem like anything has changed too much in that respect.

Pretty much the same for me and my 8 characters also. Exotic or even rare gear works just fine for everything.

dalendria.3762:

I appreciate everyone’s feedback but please stay on topic. They have already locked one of my other posts. Do not want to give them a reason to lock this one.

I would really like someone to explain if they believe adding “gear stat progression” makes GW2 distinct now, a different MMO. And if you feel it does not, why not.

What do you mean by “a different MMO”? Different from the others or different from what was told by Anet how GW2 would be?

If different from others it isn’t. Nothing is new, revolutionary or ground breaking. It is the same as all the others except more boring. Worst questing system ever made too. When you finish a zone being 4-5 levels under what the next zone should be and you have to go to a whole new starting zone to catch up is ridiculous. Oh wait, I could just farm the same events over and over and over and over again.

If different from what we were told by Anet then yes it is. They basically lied about everything and said there would be no gear progression/stat progression etc. among other things.

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading this wrong. This is exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is horizontal progression, not vertical. More infusions and ascended items is expanding the tier horizontally, not pushing a vertical treadmill. I stand by my statement and use your quote as evidence… there’s no indication that they’ll keep pushing out new tiers of gear and having you perpetually chase the uncatchable.

I am not reading it wrong. They explicitly state that the current Ascended gear and infusions are only “the first level” (read tier) and that they plan to “build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”.

The only way that could be any more clear is if they outright admitted that they’re adding an endless gear-grind and vertical progression to the game. That they’re doing this after selling the game on the promise that the end-game would be based around horizontal progression is a slap in the face to their customers.

How can this be so difficult to grasp? FotM has the first tier of infusions, those that combat agony. The next dungeon will have the next set that combats a different condition. This is a perfect setup for horizontal progression.

Answer: No.

“Message body length must be at least 15”

There you go.

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading this wrong. This is exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is horizontal progression, not vertical. More infusions and ascended items is expanding the tier horizontally, not pushing a vertical treadmill. I stand by my statement and use your quote as evidence… there’s no indication that they’ll keep pushing out new tiers of gear and having you perpetually chase the uncatchable.

I am not reading it wrong. They explicitly state that the current Ascended gear and infusions are only “the first level” (read tier) and that they plan to “build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”.

The only way that could be any more clear is if they outright admitted that they’re adding an endless gear-grind and vertical progression to the game. That they’re doing this after selling the game on the promise that the end-game would be based around horizontal progression is a slap in the face to their customers.

How can this be so difficult to grasp? FotM has the first tier of infusions, those that combat agony. The next dungeon will have the next set that combats a different condition. This is a perfect setup for horizontal progression.

VOLKON, listen.
Some people are hellbent on being over-emotional and rage-y, and with these people, any amount of reason or logic cannot combat their irrational drama.

I personally like the addition of a new tier. It doesn’t feel like they have put in place a power creep, they just put the final step onto the gear ladder, which can now be expanded horizontally.

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading this wrong. This is exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is horizontal progression, not vertical. More infusions and ascended items is expanding the tier horizontally, not pushing a vertical treadmill. I stand by my statement and use your quote as evidence… there’s no indication that they’ll keep pushing out new tiers of gear and having you perpetually chase the uncatchable.

I am not reading it wrong. They explicitly state that the current Ascended gear and infusions are only “the first level” (read tier) and that they plan to “build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”.

The only way that could be any more clear is if they outright admitted that they’re adding an endless gear-grind and vertical progression to the game. That they’re doing this after selling the game on the promise that the end-game would be based around horizontal progression is a slap in the face to their customers.

How can this be so difficult to grasp? FotM has the first tier of infusions, those that combat agony. The next dungeon will have the next set that combats a different condition. This is a perfect setup for horizontal progression.

I’m going to assume you have no idea what “horizontal progression” means, because what you just described — having to continually upgrade your gear in order to take on new content — is the exact opposite of horizontal progression.

I also think it’s ironic that you earlier said that “there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable”, and now you’re arguing they’re going to do exactly that.

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading this wrong. This is exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is horizontal progression, not vertical. More infusions and ascended items is expanding the tier horizontally, not pushing a vertical treadmill. I stand by my statement and use your quote as evidence… there’s no indication that they’ll keep pushing out new tiers of gear and having you perpetually chase the uncatchable.

I am not reading it wrong. They explicitly state that the current Ascended gear and infusions are only “the first level” (read tier) and that they plan to “build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”.

The only way that could be any more clear is if they outright admitted that they’re adding an endless gear-grind and vertical progression to the game. That they’re doing this after selling the game on the promise that the end-game would be based around horizontal progression is a slap in the face to their customers.

How can this be so difficult to grasp? FotM has the first tier of infusions, those that combat agony. The next dungeon will have the next set that combats a different condition. This is a perfect setup for horizontal progression.

I’m going to assume you have no idea what “horizontal progression” means, because what you just described — having to continually upgrade your gear in order to take on new content — is the exact opposite of horizontal progression.

I also think it’s ironic that you earlier said that “there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable”, and now you’re arguing they’re going to do exactly that.

Ay carumba. Having the option to change infusions or to pursue a new set of ascended gear for a new dungeon is not vertical progression. It’s lateral. You’re not becoming more powerful, just changing to equally powerful gear specialized for a task. You’ll have agony gear, and maybe you choose to have a gear set for the next dungeon as well. If you wear either set into, say, Arah you’ll be equally powerful there.

And how is any of that unobtainable? You’re not making sense. Right now, you gather agony gear to allow you to go deeper into Fractals if you wish. Later you gather… vampiric… (making that up for conversations sake) gear to allow you to delve deeper into that dungeon. Later still, a new infusion, new set of gear if you wish. Maybe you only want one set and choose to change slotted infusions instead. Your choice. Power curve is flat. Progression is lateral.

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading this wrong. This is exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is horizontal progression, not vertical. More infusions and ascended items is expanding the tier horizontally, not pushing a vertical treadmill. I stand by my statement and use your quote as evidence… there’s no indication that they’ll keep pushing out new tiers of gear and having you perpetually chase the uncatchable.

I am not reading it wrong. They explicitly state that the current Ascended gear and infusions are only “the first level” (read tier) and that they plan to “build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”.

The only way that could be any more clear is if they outright admitted that they’re adding an endless gear-grind and vertical progression to the game. That they’re doing this after selling the game on the promise that the end-game would be based around horizontal progression is a slap in the face to their customers.

How can this be so difficult to grasp? FotM has the first tier of infusions, those that combat agony. The next dungeon will have the next set that combats a different condition. This is a perfect setup for horizontal progression.

I’m going to assume you have no idea what “horizontal progression” means, because what you just described — having to continually upgrade your gear in order to take on new content — is the exact opposite of horizontal progression.

I also think it’s ironic that you earlier said that “there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable”, and now you’re arguing they’re going to do exactly that.

Ay carumba. Having the option to change infusions or to pursue a new set of ascended gear for a new dungeon is not vertical progression. It’s lateral. You’re not becoming more powerful, just changing to equally powerful gear specialized for a task. You’ll have agony gear, and maybe you choose to have a gear set for the next dungeon as well. If you wear either set into, say, Arah you’ll be equally powerful there.

And how is any of that unobtainable? You’re not making sense. Right now, you gather agony gear to allow you to go deeper into Fractals if you wish. Later you gather… vampiric… (making that up for conversations sake) gear to allow you to delve deeper into that dungeon. Later still, a new infusion, new set of gear if you wish. Maybe you only want one set and choose to change slotted infusions instead. Your choice. Power curve is flat. Progression is lateral.

Yeah, what you’re describing is not horizontal progression. You’ll have to constantly jump on the treadmill and grind out a new set of gear and/or upgrades in order to take on new game content. Sorry, champ, but that’s a textbook example of vertical progression.

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

Mountain Man.7901:

VOLKON.1290:

there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable.

This is, in fact, exactly what they’ll be doing.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading this wrong. This is exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is horizontal progression, not vertical. More infusions and ascended items is expanding the tier horizontally, not pushing a vertical treadmill. I stand by my statement and use your quote as evidence… there’s no indication that they’ll keep pushing out new tiers of gear and having you perpetually chase the uncatchable.

I am not reading it wrong. They explicitly state that the current Ascended gear and infusions are only “the first level” (read tier) and that they plan to “build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”.

The only way that could be any more clear is if they outright admitted that they’re adding an endless gear-grind and vertical progression to the game. That they’re doing this after selling the game on the promise that the end-game would be based around horizontal progression is a slap in the face to their customers.

How can this be so difficult to grasp? FotM has the first tier of infusions, those that combat agony. The next dungeon will have the next set that combats a different condition. This is a perfect setup for horizontal progression.

I’m going to assume you have no idea what “horizontal progression” means, because what you just described — having to continually upgrade your gear in order to take on new content — is the exact opposite of horizontal progression.

I also think it’s ironic that you earlier said that “there’s no indications they’ll keep pushing further and further tiers out there to keep you chasing the unobtainable”, and now you’re arguing they’re going to do exactly that.

Ay carumba. Having the option to change infusions or to pursue a new set of ascended gear for a new dungeon is not vertical progression. It’s lateral. You’re not becoming more powerful, just changing to equally powerful gear specialized for a task. You’ll have agony gear, and maybe you choose to have a gear set for the next dungeon as well. If you wear either set into, say, Arah you’ll be equally powerful there.

And how is any of that unobtainable? You’re not making sense. Right now, you gather agony gear to allow you to go deeper into Fractals if you wish. Later you gather… vampiric… (making that up for conversations sake) gear to allow you to delve deeper into that dungeon. Later still, a new infusion, new set of gear if you wish. Maybe you only want one set and choose to change slotted infusions instead. Your choice. Power curve is flat. Progression is lateral.

Yeah, what you’re describing is not horizontal progression. You’ll have to constantly jump on the treadmill and grind out a new set of gear and/or upgrades in order to take on new game content. Sorry, champ, but that’s a textbook example of vertical progression.

Vertical implies a power progression, it’s that simple. This is not a vertical progression. It’s horizontal. Hell, you can probably buy the infusions off the TP if you want.

Different infusions won’t make you more powerful. It’s that simple. They’ll simply tune your character to specific dungeons. This is not a treadmill. This is horizontal. With the classic treadmill scenarios, you basically dispose of your gear as you progress into new tiers. That’s not the case here. You keep your ascended as you go along. Maybe you tweak it, maybe work a new set. You don’t climb the power ladder. It really can’t be stated more clearly than this.

VOLKON.1290:

Vertical implies a power progression, it’s that simple.

Having to grind out upgraded gear to take on new game content is vertical progression. It’s that simple.