Guild Wars 2

Hi,
So I was reading some articles about a different game(civilization 5) and they described the fun of the game as front loaded. Meaning: All of the fun is to bad had early on in the game. After that, it is run of the mill, routine Civilization game.

Could this be an accurate description for Guild Wars 2? Leveling 1-80, for me, was the most fun I’ve had in an MMO since Burning Crusade in WoW. I maxed out 5 characters to 80, and geared them up. After just triyng to play the game and enjoy, patches came out with carrots and rewards. More rewards. And more rewards. And more currencies. Suddenly, I felt the game’s focus shift from having fun, exploring Tyria and just playing the game to chasing down that next reward. There are tons of rewards and currencies in the game. It was at this point that I realized the GW2 had become like all other MMOs: At max level, chase down those rewards. Just the mere presence of more and more currencies and rewards made intrinsically playing the game for fun less “rewarding” in its own right. I dont know how, but it happened.

Yes, there are those that are able to simply ignore this and are able to play the game for fun. For people like me, I think, in our opinion, we can call the game Front Loaded. Great experience leveling up with all of the sights to see, amazing graphics and areas, NPC conversations. After that awsome climb, you plataue and no longer feel like you’re climbing.

I could be wrong…but this is my opinion. Front loaded…

Edit: This is not to be a rant or a whining post. If it sounds that way, I apologize. Just an observation of the game through my own experience.

I guess to summarize:
I personally feel that all of the things that make GW2 awsome and fun are packed into levels 1-80 and a little beyond…but after you’ve been 80 a while..the amount of awsomeness dwindles.

You can stumble upon a cool jumping puzzle, or an amazing sunset or something…or have fun in a mini game they pump out every once in a while. But it quickly fades. It isnt like the BAM in your face intensity of awsomeness during the first 80 levels.

And it took me about 5 months to get my 5 level 80s. So its not like it was the honeymoon period that got me. The game was pure awsomeness for 5 months. Once I transitioned from leveling to try to simply enjoy the game, the amount of awsomeness faded.

The way I see it, games like WoW tend to make you wait until max level for the “fun” stuff. GW2 throws the fun at you right away and is working their tails off to keep it going. My mesmer has been level 80 for over half a year now and I’m still having a blast on him. Yes, the leveling experience is great, but the fun doesn’t stop at 80.

Best part is… I’ve never stopped to think that we need more levels now that I’ve been 80 for quite some time. It just doesn’t mean the same thing as a game like WoW. I’m not stuck at an end game raid waiting for an expansion for something new to do… every couple weeks something new comes flying at us.

Ces… here’s a hint… keep playing like you’re leveling. Or, like I did, forget about leveling and just play.

It really depends on what you find enjoyment from in this game. Some people like leveling and exploring, others like WvW and PvP, and others like to RP. The problem with leveling and exploring is that players will always devour content faster than developers can create. For PvPers and RPers, the devs just have to create a framework and the players themselves create their own content to enjoy through competition or social interactions.

Exploration is something you can do at any level. Being 80 just makes the combat trivial in low level zones. So that particular flavor of content is not front loaded.

Personally, I hate leveling up. I did it one and a half times and leveled my other 4 80s through crafting because it was so tiresome. But I like the rest.

I think it boils down to what you think is fun and exciting to do.

Lets assume you are max level, have finished your personal story, have world completion and have the best gear available; What would you like to do next if you can’t progress your character further? Are you interested in jumping puzzles? Events? PvP? Crafting? Lore? Achievements? Skins? Dungeons?

I don’t mean to generalize you, but I think that most people(who aren’t familair with GWII) approach all new MMOs with the mindset that the only thing worth doing is progressing your character and that if you aren’t doing that you are basicly wasting your time.

But I guess that in a sense you can call the game front loaded, in that very little content is gated to max level.
But in my opinion it is one of GWII’s strengths. You can just jump in and play with your friends. No need to grind for ages just to have fun.

I find that the first 25-30 levels of a new class are fun and then it becomes fun again after level 80.

On a new class (as opposed to character) I like unlocking the weapon skills and figuring out what they do. But once they skills are unlocked, leveling is a drag.

At 80 I start running around WvW, dungeons, etc..

TooBz.3065:

I find that the first 25-30 levels of a new class are fun and then it becomes fun again after level 80.

On a new class (as opposed to character) I like unlocking the weapon skills and figuring out what they do. But once they skills are unlocked, leveling is a drag.

At 80 I start running around WvW, dungeons, etc..

Just a hint for future alts… many of us have leveled at least one alt to 80 in WvW alone.

VOLKON.1290:

TooBz.3065:

I find that the first 25-30 levels of a new class are fun and then it becomes fun again after level 80.

On a new class (as opposed to character) I like unlocking the weapon skills and figuring out what they do. But once they skills are unlocked, leveling is a drag.

At 80 I start running around WvW, dungeons, etc..

Just a hint for future alts… many of us have leveled at least one alt to 80 in WvW alone.

I did my mesmer from 25-80 purely in WvW… Staff, sep/focus before confusion nerf, god that was fun.. I should play my mesmer…

GW2 is in no way front loaded, the game doesn’t really start until you hit 80 and by then you are usually around 45% map completion and then there are builds and gear and crafting and WvW and meta events and LS stuff…

cesmode.4257:

For people like me, I think, in our opinion, we can call the game Front Loaded. Great experience leveling up with all of the sights to see, amazing graphics and areas, NPC conversations. After that awsome climb, you plataue and no longer feel like you’re climbing.

I could be wrong…but this is my opinion. Front loaded…

Rewards were put in because a large chunk of the player base accused the game of lacking rewards, of providing them with nothing to work towards. However, there’s rewarding in the sense that these folks were demanding and rewarding in the sense of “having fun” that you allude to.

All of those gameplay elements that were there during the leveling experience you enjoyed so much are still there, still available in the game. So, why are you not doing them and enjoying them? Could it be because there are diminishing returns on “fun” obtained from doing the same content over and over again? Could it be because there was some challenge in going through zones wearing on-level blue gear while leveling, but not as much (if any) while running around in 80 exotics?

MMO’s are a strange animal. No other electronic game is expected to provide new challenges and new things to do for a clientele that plays many hours each day for years. Some MMO’s handle this better than others. Most of them use the time-consuming acquisition of rewards to fill the gap between how fast new things can be produced and how fast players can burn through those new things.

Is GW2 front-loaded? If so, my take it that it is no more front-loaded than any other MMO. They all get old. GW2 might be less front-loaded than a lot of MMO’s. I tried NWO and got bored at level 15. In TSW, I stopped playing when I got sick in January. I was at gear tier 7 with half the game’s story to go. I cannot make myself even update the game, though I’m not sure why. Yet I still enjoy GW2. Maybe it’s because I don’t play it for many hours every day, playing only when I feel like it.

Finally, humans are fascinated with new experience. Our brains crave stimulation. In that sense, many activities are to some degree front-loaded.

Yes, they catered to people that felt the game had a shallow end game nothing to work towards, but that right there to me is the problem! What was wrong with just playing the game? Enjoying the content? Why did the progression-minded folks feel the need to corrupt an innovative idea?

You can say “simply ignore the progression and just play…” but that is like telling a fat kid to ignore the red velvet cake in front of him. Very easy to say, hard to do.

I would have been completely content and enthralled if the reward-fiasco did not begin and the biggest reward was your own fun. Now, everything you do is laced with incentive and reward. So instead of just enjoying, Im checking off boxes to complete to have a bite of that red velvet cake.

Im playing Firefall right now. You get the same types of rewards for nearly everything you do. Resources, ingame currency, experience. Everything you need to progress your battleframe you can acquire by doing anything you want. Anything. Because all the resources gained from any of these activities can be used to craft better and better gear until you craft the final tier of gear.

In GW2, the best tier of gear is ascended. I cannot only dungeon run and obtain ascended gear. I cannot simply do WvW and obtain ascended gear. I cannot log in, do a few jumping puzzles, craft and then do the pent/shelt farm in Orr for ascended gear. I have to mix and match certain activities to make sure I get that Laurel. In a game like firefall, anything I do nets me resources/mats, ingame currency, xp. Thats all I need, so I can truely without a doubt do anything I want and Im still working toward my goals.

I believe that is what Arenanet wanted to accomplish with GW2, but missing the mark.
(this might have strayed off topic)

I hated leveling. To me, these things seem to be utter formalities in this day and age and I would not shed a tear if they were gone. Being restricted to where you can go because you are too low level to enter the next zones was annoying. It was much better when I could go wherever I wanted. During the low levels, I cared more about the story which wasn’t too bad until later on.

The only thing front loaded about gw2 is the story. It starts out nicely when it’s about you and your people and just falls apart. As for Civ V; I haven’t played the expansion so things could have changed, but it’s just a terrible game overall, so I guess it had to be front loaded. =p They set a new record in terrible UI that makes Gw2’s look streamlined by comparison.

cesmode.4257:

Hi,
So I was reading some articles about a different game(civilization 5) and they described the fun of the game as front loaded. Meaning: All of the fun is to bad had early on in the game. After that, it is run of the mill, routine Civilization game.

Could this be an accurate description for Guild Wars 2? Leveling 1-80, for me, was the most fun I’ve had in an MMO since Burning Crusade in WoW. I maxed out 5 characters to 80, and geared them up. After just triyng to play the game and enjoy, patches came out with carrots and rewards. More rewards. And more rewards. And more currencies. Suddenly, I felt the game’s focus shift from having fun, exploring Tyria and just playing the game to chasing down that next reward. There are tons of rewards and currencies in the game. It was at this point that I realized the GW2 had become like all other MMOs: At max level, chase down those rewards. Just the mere presence of more and more currencies and rewards made intrinsically playing the game for fun less “rewarding” in its own right. I dont know how, but it happened.

Yes, there are those that are able to simply ignore this and are able to play the game for fun. For people like me, I think, in our opinion, we can call the game Front Loaded. Great experience leveling up with all of the sights to see, amazing graphics and areas, NPC conversations. After that awsome climb, you plataue and no longer feel like you’re climbing.

I could be wrong…but this is my opinion. Front loaded…

Edit: This is not to be a rant or a whining post. If it sounds that way, I apologize. Just an observation of the game through my own experience.

It may give that impression if you do not study the designed intent of the “end-game”

One of the core elements in the end-game is Dynamic Events, thus the level scaling which allows us to return to any zone and making that zone to a degree a challenge.

So to answer your question. No it is not front loaded.

cesmode.4257:

Yes, they catered to people that felt the game had a shallow end game nothing to work towards, but that right there to me is the problem! What was wrong with just playing the game? Enjoying the content? Why did the progression-minded folks feel the need to corrupt an innovative idea?

You can say “simply ignore the progression and just play…” but that is like telling a fat kid to ignore the red velvet cake in front of him. Very easy to say, hard to do.

I would have been completely content and enthralled if the reward-fiasco did not begin and the biggest reward was your own fun. Now, everything you do is laced with incentive and reward. So instead of just enjoying, Im checking off boxes to complete to have a bite of that red velvet cake.

Im playing Firefall right now. You get the same types of rewards for nearly everything you do. Resources, ingame currency, experience. Everything you need to progress your battleframe you can acquire by doing anything you want. Anything. Because all the resources gained from any of these activities can be used to craft better and better gear until you craft the final tier of gear.

In GW2, the best tier of gear is ascended. I cannot only dungeon run and obtain ascended gear. I cannot simply do WvW and obtain ascended gear. I cannot log in, do a few jumping puzzles, craft and then do the pent/shelt farm in Orr for ascended gear. I have to mix and match certain activities to make sure I get that Laurel. In a game like firefall, anything I do nets me resources/mats, ingame currency, xp. Thats all I need, so I can truely without a doubt do anything I want and Im still working toward my goals.

I believe that is what Arenanet wanted to accomplish with GW2, but missing the mark.
(this might have strayed off topic)

It’s clear that you enjoy vertical progression as an endgame, but this game is focused on horizontal progression. There’s nothing wrong with either, you’re just playing a game that doesn’t fulfill what you need.

On the contrary. I enjoy no progression..sure maybe horizontal. But GW2 isnt necessarily horizontal. Last I looked, Ascended gear is better than exotic. True, you dont need ascended gear to experience the game, but then again you can walk into a raid in wow, in blues and greens(cant queue for a raid in that gear though..but I believe you can still manually enter with your guild).

You just said in the post I quoted that you enjoy firefall because you are able to acquire and craft better gear and also acquiring ascended gear in GW2 is a goal. That is vertical progression.

Ascended gear was made for fractals because of the agony resistance. I haven’t acquired any ascended gear yet even though I have enough for a full set because it doesn’t have the stats I want. It may have a few more points than exotic, but using them doesn’t work with a lot of builds that players are running. To put it in WoW terms, I could run raids in my PvP arena gear which has more stat points than my PvE gear, but I won’t because it doesn’t have the stats I need. More stats doesn’t equal the best gear if it doesn’t fit with your build.