Guild Wars 2

Just a very honest question. I understand NCsoft’s future game plans are more traditional style, but seems this is their one game which they’ve done everything in their power to cater to casuals and nothing more. Time-gated progression, majority of the skins available to anyone who has a bank account, and not many rewards that are exclusive to the people who put in the time for them (FOTM back piece, or liadri mini for example).

Is this the direction we’re headed? Any cool new skins locked away behind RNG gemstore chests, or new items locked away behind a meta achievement from 2 week updates? Like, I understand all that.. but I’m starting to feel all the money I’ve poured into the gem store isn’t even resulting in any new challenging content even being developed.. there’s literally no content exclusive awards besides FOTM skins and back, otherwise everything else could simply be bought and is available to everyone.

I think ultimately, trying to continually cater to the casual consumer base is going to alienate a lot of players who are growing tired of waiting for some challenging content to come their way for once. And instead of gaining revenue, ultimately it’ll just push away the ones who are currently so involved with the game.

Anyone disagree? Anyone else think there’s no challenging content or exclusive rewards and we’re simply getting fed temporary farming options every 2 weeks?

Fractal weapon skins are still account bound and can only be gotten in higher levels of the fractals. Aside from that, time doesn’t make you hard core or even good.

Many people got run through raid in other games, because finding 20 people to show up each and every raid day was silly. So maybe the tank and off tank had some skill and maybe the healer or off healer and maybe a couple of the DPS guys and half the guys in most raids were just bodies. They got the best stuff or chances at the best stuff doing those raids …because they had time not skill.

Gamer egos need to be a bit more self-fulfilling I think.

Why does everyone feel the need to categorize and judge people?

I’m a hardcore players, and I love this game to death. Eh…?

A few months ago Colin Johansen said in a video GW2’s core audience is the guy who only has 1 hour to play a day. That’s why endgame gear is awarded through dailies, so that person can feel they’re progressing (that is what was said in the video).

I don’t think this was exactly clear in the pre-game hype. The message was “no grind” and “play your way”, which would seem to encompass all play styles. But without a doubt it was intended for casuals (except sPvP). That is generally what a game without a sub encourages as well.

Some of the more organized guilds in WvW are using unintended game mechanics (Trinity class set-ups, buffs/healing on demand) to play at a very high skill level, mostly in GvG matches. But at best Anet seems ambivalent that this is happening, if not actively hostile. Their vision for WvW is casual siege dominated zerg warfare.

What our guild has ended up doing is only playing GW2 a few days a week, as it seems to be intended. Other days we just play other games.

EDIT: It actually occurs to me now that pre-launch, when people complained there was no endgame, the devs went out of their way to assure people there was. So perhaps there was a little bit of false advertising to the hardcore people.

Not only casuals, but largely to casuals. The thing about hardcore gamers is that they are usually really good at the game, and learn it really fast. When appealing to hardcore players, you have to constantly push the envelope in difficulty and in hardware into extremes, because otherwise hardcore players complete the content very quickly and get bored again.

I think this is one of the big reasons why Anet balances around and pimps out PVP so much. In a PVP setting, the hardcore gamers are constantly fighting against hardcore gamers, so the other player is the insurmountable challenge that the hardcore have to overcome. This provides a lot of relatively cheap but valuable entertainment to the hardcore player, while the casual player can go into PVE and pick mushrooms then dance in Lions Arch.

Whether they’ve managed to accomplish that, however, is up for debate.

EDIT: forgot to mention a whole lot of stuff.

Another problem with appealing to the hardcore base is that it alienates the majority of the gamers. When coming up with updates, developers often have to gauge the appeal of prospective new content to their audience. What the hardcore gamers find boring, the majority of the population finds entertaining and satisfactory. It isn’t so much that the devs don’t want to appeal to hardcore players as it is that doing so isn’t always the best move from a game design perspective.

I understand that GW2 seems to have a reputation for being “casual”. I had those discussions on other (gear-centric design) game forums before GW2 released. I found that most of the players that were not attracted to GW2 had only ever experienced gear-centric gameplay. The upshot from those discussions was that the “hardcore raiders” saw GW2 as something they could do in their off-time while waiting on raid timers.

Am I a little concerned about the direction GW2 is going? Yes.

My guild came to this game because it was promoted as “play for fun”, because it wasn’t gear-centric and because it is the only MMO that is centered around 5-man, which we haven’t had since server raid leading and 4-manning MLs in DAoC.

We view “casual” vs “hardcore” as a matrix intersecting time/approach/values/skill. We feel it’s a sliding scale and not a black and white definition.

In GW2, we are creating our own level of “challenging progression” as we 4-man Fractals and Explorables, (including Arah). And running as a small “swat team” in WvW. Two of my guildmates enjoy SPvP from time to time, as we are also old FPS players as well. We also enjoy the community feel and outdoor raids (something also we loved in DAoC).

We’d like to see more outdoor dragon events and more dungeons. We don’t measure “progression” via gear-centric design, but by our own abilities to do content better, faster, easier, whatever. We enjoy exploration, progression, refinement, community events and good lore.

We are hardcore and elite and casual. We aren’t elitist, aren’t looking for bragging rights for anything, and at the moment, there isn’t another MMORPG out there that meets our needs.

I’ve always said a game is what you make it. GW2 comes close to being able to do that.

If players, like those I’ve been in discussion with on other game forums, define “hardcore” by size of raid, reward, exclusivity, then they will probably look at GW2 overall as a casual game. There are plenty of other games out there that offer those specific designs.

I just hope GW2 never totally mimics them.

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

Ok. If we define casual that way. I tend to view casual in terms on engagement. How dedicated are you to the game. A casual player could take the game or leave it.

As a ridiculously over the top “fanboy” (not starting anything, but that’s your reputation, hence the quotes) you do not qualify under my definition of casual. Of course, it’s unreasonable to assume that everyone uses my definition, but that’s exactly the point. The word has too many potential meanings. Much better to say “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only people who don’t want a challenge” or “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only to be people who play for a short period every day” or “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only people who play on weekends” etc…

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

YES! +1. That’s exactly what’s been missing. I myself would qualify as dedicated. Well, except for the gear part.

TooBz.3065:

Ok. If we define casual that way. I tend to view casual in terms on engagement. How dedicated are you to the game. A casual player could take the game or leave it.

As a ridiculously over the top “fanboy” (not starting anything, but that’s your reputation, hence the quotes) you do not qualify under my definition of casual. Of course, it’s unreasonable to assume that everyone uses my definition, but that’s exactly the point. The word has too many potential meanings. Much better to say “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only people who don’t want a challenge” or “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only to be people who play for a short period every day” or “Is GW2 meant to appeal to only people who play on weekends” etc…

Well people have different definitions and that can confuse things here as well. I talk purely in terms of how much time they have and how into endgame/hard content they are.

Dedicated is used as in dedicating a lot of time to the game, not being dedicated to the title itself if that makes sense.

Gehenna.3625:

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Dedicated players are the guys responsible for Ascended Gear!

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting ‘the Legendary wall.’” ~ Linsey Murdock

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear

Tachenon.5270:

Gehenna.3625:

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Dedicated players are the guys responsible for Ascended Gear!

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting ‘the Legendary wall.’” ~ Linsey Murdock

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear

No I think they meant the hardcore players more. Those are the ones that wanted another tier of gear. Definitely a different use of “dedicated”

Tachenon.5270:

Gehenna.3625:

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Dedicated players are the guys responsible for Ascended Gear!

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting ‘the Legendary wall.’” ~ Linsey Murdock

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear

ugh. Then you need a different word. But the idea of three archetypes appeals to me much more than two.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

Yep, sounds like I’m a dedicated player. I sorta like that. I don’t really care about BIS gear, but if I can get it, I probably will. I just don’t care if I don’t have it. I do all but the hardest end game stuff…like I haven’t spent time fighting Liadri yet, only tried her once. I have beaten every dungeon in the game and I’m up to level 21 fractals, but don’t run the higher levels that often.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

snip

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

Yep, sounds like I’m a dedicated player. I sorta like that. I don’t really care about BIS gear, but if I can get it, I probably will. I just don’t care if I don’t have it. I do all but the hardest end game stuff…like I haven’t spent time fighting Liadri yet, only tried her once. I have beaten every dungeon in the game and I’m up to level 21 fractals, but don’t run the higher levels that often.

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

snip

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

Yep, sounds like I’m a dedicated player. I sorta like that. I don’t really care about BIS gear, but if I can get it, I probably will. I just don’t care if I don’t have it. I do all but the hardest end game stuff…like I haven’t spent time fighting Liadri yet, only tried her once. I have beaten every dungeon in the game and I’m up to level 21 fractals, but don’t run the higher levels that often.

Yeh I saw that term used on a MMO website some time ago and I think it works. I fit the same category though I have my hardcore moments

Thrumdi.9216:

Some of the more organized guilds in WvW are using unintended game mechanics (Trinity class set-ups, buffs/healing on demand) to play at a very high skill level, mostly in GvG matches. But at best Anet seems ambivalent that this is happening, if not actively hostile. Their vision for WvW is casual siege dominated zerg warfare.

Lol, people consider the GvG format in this game a very high skill level?

To me that sentiment honestly defecates on the legacy of the top-tier GvG players in GW1, where GvG was a true matter of skill. Not only player skill in combat, but also theory-crafting skill where making team builds and synergies was a huge part of the challenge.

Stacking on your commander and spamming AoE attacks in the hopes of killing a few of the other guys is not high skill level. It’s dumb, takes no skill and is insulting to the true format of GvG.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

snip

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

Yep, sounds like I’m a dedicated player. I sorta like that. I don’t really care about BIS gear, but if I can get it, I probably will. I just don’t care if I don’t have it. I do all but the hardest end game stuff…like I haven’t spent time fighting Liadri yet, only tried her once. I have beaten every dungeon in the game and I’m up to level 21 fractals, but don’t run the higher levels that often.

Yeh I saw that term used on a MMO website some time ago and I think it works. I fit the same category though I have my hardcore moments

How about ‘Enthusiasts’ instead?

Bright.9160:

Thrumdi.9216:

Some of the more organized guilds in WvW are using unintended game mechanics (Trinity class set-ups, buffs/healing on demand) to play at a very high skill level, mostly in GvG matches. But at best Anet seems ambivalent that this is happening, if not actively hostile. Their vision for WvW is casual siege dominated zerg warfare.

Lol, people consider the GvG format in this game a very high skill level?

To me that sentiment honestly defecates on the legacy of the top-tier GvG players in GW1, where GvG was a true matter of skill. Not only player skill in combat, but also theory-crafting skill where making team builds and synergies was a huge part of the challenge.

Stacking on your commander and spamming AoE attacks in the hopes of killing a few of the other guys is not high skill level. It’s dumb, takes no skill and is insulting to the true format of GvG.

If this is your vision of GvG then too bad, you are missing out. I guess that the reason why guilds like RG or ZDs are capable of winning 5-0 consistently or taking on double their numbers in WvW is because they just stack on commander and spam AoEs. I’m sure you could beat them, since it takes no skill, it’s just that you couldn’t be bothered, amirite?

Well, sorry for the off topic.

I can play multiple hours a day, but i call myself casual, why?

Because i’m not competitive at all, i don’t care who wins in WvW or sPvP, i don’t follow tournaments and totally ignore all PvP, not because i’m bad at it, i do ok the times i did it, its just incredibly boring to run over maps capturing points and fighting wooden doors etc..

I PvE because its a good way to socialize and have no frustrations (mostly), i can tune out and just enjoy myself with friends, i cant do that in PvP..

Wolfheart.1938:

If this is your vision of GvG then too bad, you are missing out. I guess that the reason why guilds like RG or ZDs are capable of winning 5-0 consistently or taking on double their numbers in WvW is because they just stack on commander and spam AoEs. I’m sure you could beat them, since it takes no skill, it’s just that you couldn’t be bothered, amirite?

Well, sorry for the off topic.

Hey man, if you enjoy ‘GvG’ in GW2 and think it’s a good format that takes skill, good for you.

In the mean time, I’ll be here, remembering how demanding high-end GvG in GW1 was, and realizing how laughably pathetic the format is in GW2.

And, I don’t think I could win from them, I just think it’s a pathetic format.

Not that I would even attempt to win from them, seeing how I don’t WvW. I haven’t been in WvW since they removed it from the dailies. Figure out yourself how long that has been.

Ursan.7846:

Why does everyone feel the need to categorize and judge people?

I’m a hardcore players, and I love this game to death. Eh…?

Lol

That made my day.

Yes it is, and that’s a great thing! Because people that this game appeals to (Casuals) have lower expectations, so ANET doesn’t have to worry too much as opposed to say Blizzard and Bioware who make games more suited to people looking for a challenge / hardcore type game

I was under the impression that this game was made from the start to appeal to casual players. It’s one of the reasons I was interested in it.

Personally, and like most people I suspect, I’m somewhere in between the two extremes. It varies depending on the game (partially because the definition of casual and hardcore varies) but I take aspects from both.

A lot of the things I aim for involve completing ‘harcore’ content. For example I fully intend to make a legendary, in fact I’ve already picked my first 3. But my attitude is very casual – I’m in no hurry to get it done, I’ll do it when I get around to it. (I normally say I’ve made no progress, but actually I’ve gotten a lot of stuff done without really thinking of it as working towards a legendary, like 42% map completion or getting obsidian shards from Orrian boxes. So when I do start working on it it’ll be a lot quicker.)

Hardcore players generally get quickly bored of the game… This game suits mostly casual and pve oriented players. They only add small pve content every 2 weeks, but there’s still no new pk zones, pvp modes, gvg modes etc. after 1 year. Arenanet should add some new pk(pvp) modes and zones to the game and encourage players to participate and grind in pk modes. The first guild wars was pvp/pk oriented but, this game is completely pve oriented. We were doing some wvw activities with our guild, but thanks to the latest patches everyone is farming events/champs 7/24 now. But for what ? I don’t think someone’s actually having fun by farming like zombies. They can make hardcore playing fun by converting the game to be pk/pvp oriented again. (I don’t mean spvp, I mean every kind of player vs player involved game play)

Yes, GW2 is meant for casuals. I’ve said before, hardcore MMO players will find more satisfaction from games like WoW, Neocron 2, SWTOR, Rift…

GW2 is meant for a casual playerbase and this is good

Appealing to casuals isn’t a bad thing

Ursan.7846:

Why does everyone feel the need to categorize and judge people?

I’m a hardcore players, and I love this game to death. Eh…?

That’s because it is aimed at hardcores. Just there’s more than one group of hardcore players, and their goals not always overlap. Casuals get quaggan backpacks and… that’s pretty much it. Everything else is not for them.

Thrumdi.9216:

A few months ago Colin Johansen said in a video GW2’s core audience is the guy who only has 1 hour to play a day. That’s why endgame gear is awarded through dailies, so that person can feel they’re progressing (that is what was said in the video).

Ascended weapon grind clearly shows it’s nothing like that. Most of the previous Living Story content is the same (1 hour to play a day… so we’ll make each invasion last almost that long? lol).

Superfast.5901:

Appealing to casuals isn’t a bad thing

Then maybe they should start doing that.

No it’s not. Don’t confuse the term casual with the term relaxed. It has a relaxed atmosphere compared to the other games out there.

Casual is where people are given alternative activities that neither make or break the game. Things that are not important to the overall story or the lore but are fun alternative activities. This game is severely lacking in that department when compared to other games both subbed and nonsubbed.

oh yes,,we casuals LOVE to do the boss dance every 5 mins
during the normal quests
the surprise attacks of event bosses
and, of course, the EPIC storyline bosses
maybe ill pop back in for a couple of days Again next year

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

The amount of time you can play doesn’t determine whether your are a hardcore or casual player. In fact, I hate these labels altogether. “Casual” implies that the casual player could just as easily play solitaire or has no interest in improving their skills.

If we must divide the community into “casual” and “hardcore” groups we should come up with a way of differentiating them other than hardcore players play like me, the rest are casual. Many people I would consider to be avid GW2 players have jobs, and lives outside the game. They can’t spend 4-12 hours a day in game.

Also, the most recent update requires you to fight Scarlet in each of 11(sorry don’t remember the exact count) different zones. That’s 7-10 hours of game play just to complete the bi-weekly stuff. I don’t see that as appealing to the “casual gamer.”

In fact I have no idea who the target audience for that is.

It’s 13 zones…apparently I’m the target audience for that. lol

Probably, you seem to have a lot of time to play More than I do anyway. But my main point is that that isn’t “casual” by any reasonable definition unless you define casual to be “anything I don’t like.”

I don’t think anyone here would say that you are a casual gamer, unless they had a very very odd definition of casual.

See the problem is, I am casual…but I have lots of time. I’m casual because I’m not hard-core. I’m not interested, particularly, in challenge. I’m more interested in running around and having fun.

Apparently, to a lot of people, that makes me casual. I don’t think I’m that casual about the game…but what do I know? lol

There’s a new term around for a third category that you seem to fit in. It’s called dedicated player.

Casual= doesn’t play that many hours and doesn’t care much about harder stuff in the game. Just likes the game. May or may not have max level characters but will generally avoid endgame.

Dedicated= plays a lot of hours but isn’t as concerned with having a million gold and bis gear now. may or may not participate in endgame.

Hardcore= generally plays all the hours he/she can and wants to stay ahead of the rest of the group. will set targets like being the first at max level or beating a dungeon.

It’s a rough division and definition but I think it has merit to add a third group. I certainly am more Dedicated, at least in other games I play. Here I am casual at best

i like your descriptions best but prefer the word enthusiast instead of dedicated although your definition define me as a casual. but i do like to do endgame just dont have the time to do it but i fit the casual def. three definitions makes more sense and more correctly defines a lot of people better then the traditional hardcore versus casual

battledrone.8315:

oh yes,,we casuals LOVE to do the boss dance every 5 mins
during the normal quests
the surprise attacks of event bosses
and, of course, the EPIC storyline bosses
maybe ill pop back in for a couple of days Again next year

reason i like the quick boss battles cause every moment i play the game i have to decide where to spend my time fun versus gold in game to spend on what i want. i have to decide if i want to do achievements and doing just dailies and monthlies all the time. ive gotten most monthlies but only half the dailies and hardly finished achievements for living stories useless i can finish then up within a few hours of play

From the content point of view, yes. The core/hardcore still enjoy it because it has a great combat system though. If it wasn’t of the combat system this game would only be played by casuals.

It was. Then they added a ton of grind options, so now it’s becoming another generic MMO w/o a sub-fee

ricky markham.8173:

battledrone.8315:

oh yes,,we casuals LOVE to do the boss dance every 5 mins
during the normal quests
the surprise attacks of event bosses
and, of course, the EPIC storyline bosses
maybe ill pop back in for a couple of days Again next year

reason i like the quick boss battles cause every moment i play the game i have to decide where to spend my time fun versus gold in game to spend on what i want. i have to decide if i want to do achievements and doing just dailies and monthlies all the time. ive gotten most monthlies but only half the dailies and hardly finished achievements for living stories useless i can finish then up within a few hours of play

and that makes you a hardcore player
designing an mmo for the hardcore player will give them the according income
until they give me the option to skip those bosses completely, im not paying them another cent
but hey…perhaps they can just reprogram all those bosses to give them their next paycheck

Superfast.5901:

Yes, GW2 is meant for casuals. I’ve said before, hardcore MMO players will find more satisfaction from games like WoW, Neocron 2, SWTOR, Rift…

GW2 is meant for a casual playerbase and this is good

wow is WAY more casual friendly, than this game
and the sub number prove that
the main reason: they keep their bosses locked up in dungeons
they dont put them on every streetcorner, like this game does
and more importantly: they dont spawn a boss in the middle of a lowbie quest area
“just 2 more mobs, and im done with this quest…OH, S…..”
whoever though THAT would be a good idea?

Nuka Cola.8520:

From the content point of view, yes. The core/hardcore still enjoy it because it has a great combat system though. If it wasn’t of the combat system this game would only be played by casuals.

Alot of hardcore players left the game, or so i heard. There was this one guy in my old guild who was really good at dungeons and had 4 legendarys. Last June he stopped playing. He comes on for an hour every 2 -3 weeks to say hi and leaves.

This game is made for hardcore casuals. People who like playing alot of hours but play with a casual mindset. Thats why nothing hardcore besides FOTM has been added to the game and even fotm was made less hardcore because of the level cap and the 99% rez trick nerf.

@battledrone
Wow might be casual friendly in open world but thats really every game. The difference between wow and gw is that in gw dungeons are casual friendly as well. At least in wow there were some intentional challenges, in gw2 people had to make them up

Harcored gamers are the ones who maintain mmorpgs alive while the casuals see every new game they played like the best game of their virgins lives and they jump ship to the next shiny thing.

so,,getting ganked by a boss , while im levelling is casual friendly?
and im so casual, that i dont DO dungeons anymore,,so that isnt helping me either
im playing..and paying for fun and immersion
if i want challenging gameplay,,i can always find the content for that
but spreading it over the entire game, like SWTOR did, is just a a bad idea
i already uninstalled SWTOR
when i need more Space on my hard drive,,this game is next,,,sadly
they made one of best mmos on the market
and then they ruined it Again, by adding all those OP bosses

Vayne.8563:

Fractal weapon skins are still account bound and can only be gotten in higher levels of the fractals. Aside from that, time doesn’t make you hard core or even good.

Quite true. And really, there is no hardcore content in this game. The real debate is between casual and core gaming, not hardcore here. Three groups, including a center group. Generally people are in one or maybe two groups working from the center in most cases. Such as I gravitate towards core/hardcore.

So working from that perspective, GW2 started more in favor of the core player category, but has increasingly shifted to the casual player category. Now if we start talking old eq1 raiding, SWG open-world faction warfare (pre-cu), EVE corporate/alliance sovereignty in null space, having anything like those here, we’ll talk hardcore

gamemaster.7154:

Harcored gamers are the ones who maintain mmorpgs alive while the casuals see every new game they played like the best game of their virgins lives and they jump ship to the next shiny thing.

sure,,EVE is around 500 k subs now,,after 10 years as the best hardcore game
wow is still chugging along with over 6 mio subs, and they certainly didnt have any
big impact on the business, did they?
hardcore=niche game, with a niche budget
they already made one of those,,they call it the secret World
and it tanked even faster, than i expected

battledrone.8315:

so,,getting ganked by a boss , while im levelling is casual friendly?
and im so casual, that i dont DO dungeons anymore,,so that isnt helping me either
im playing..and paying for fun and immersion
if i want challenging gameplay,,i can always find the content for that
but spreading it over the entire game, like SWTOR did, is just a a bad idea
i already uninstalled SWTOR
when i need more Space on my hard drive,,this game is next,,,sadly
they made one of best mmos on the market
and then they ruined it Again, by adding all those OP bosses

first of all find where the period button is on your computer. this: ,,,,, isnt anything. this: … is an ellipse which is something.
Anyways the bosses in gw2 open world are really easy. How do you get “ganked” by one. The only time i ever had trouble while leveling up was when i would go do a skill challenge a couple levels above my own. Besides that i never had trouble with bosses. There arent even that many if you really think about it most of them you can just skip. If you find gw2 open world challenging i dont know what to tell you lol.

@daywolf
there is hardcore content in this game, but its more like trying to solo a dungeon or something like that. Which i find kind of stupid on Anets part. In gw2 you have to go out of your way to make things challenging for yourself and for the most part there is little reward. The only real reward from soloing dungeons is if you solo arah and sell spots. but then you might get banned because kittens looking at your LFG post will think that youre scum for being good.

ive had bosses spawn right behind me, during the normal levelling content
try surviving that, if youre already fighting 2 normal mobs, and on ½ Health
and , since they spawn with no warning, i cant really avoid them can i?
if you dont know , what to tell me, why on earth did you write anything?
the only way to skip bosses in this game , is not to play it at all
looks like my game budget is going to STO Again
at least, they know how to seperate their content

the real question is….is this game meant to appeal to anyone who is knew to the game at all? taking content away from a game doesnt enrich the game (quite the opposite) and it a spit on the face for all knew players :S.

battledrone.8315:

ricky markham.8173:

battledrone.8315:

oh yes,,we casuals LOVE to do the boss dance every 5 mins
during the normal quests
the surprise attacks of event bosses
and, of course, the EPIC storyline bosses
maybe ill pop back in for a couple of days Again next year

reason i like the quick boss battles cause every moment i play the game i have to decide where to spend my time fun versus gold in game to spend on what i want. i have to decide if i want to do achievements and doing just dailies and monthlies all the time. ive gotten most monthlies but only half the dailies and hardly finished achievements for living stories useless i can finish then up within a few hours of play

and that makes you a hardcore player
designing an mmo for the hardcore player will give them the according income
until they give me the option to skip those bosses completely, im not paying them another cent
but hey…perhaps they can just reprogram all those bosses to give them their next paycheck

so im hardcore if i have 2 hours a week to play and have to deicde what im going to do in those 2 hours