Guild Wars 2

http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/graphics-programming-and-theory/geometry-culling-in-3d-engines-r1212

Learn what culling is and what it isn’t I believe alot here think of the word culling in some generic term like lag or fps.

Jski.6180:

StormageddonBK.9842:

Lexandro.1456:

I read that piece and it actually said that culling would be “player controled” iirc. That means its just a slider or setting in the game now. High end systems can push the slider out and get less noticable culling or possibly eliminate it.

A LOT of people are still going to have culling issues, now though Anet can say its all their fault since they give you the control over it.

If this turns out to be true then I’m done with the game. How can ESOL have a mega server with so much more players and no culling reported? Sadly GW2 is not giving me a reason to stay…

I have yet to see ESOL mega server deal with culling of there own so lets see how that works out (i have a feeling its going to be there too btw).

ESOL developed a brand new 3d engine, ANET just tweeked the GW1 3d engine which was never designed to fill large amounts of polygons.

hi………………………………………………………………i dont think so

Asglarek.8976:

Jski.6180:

StormageddonBK.9842:

Lexandro.1456:

I read that piece and it actually said that culling would be “player controled” iirc. That means its just a slider or setting in the game now. High end systems can push the slider out and get less noticable culling or possibly eliminate it.

A LOT of people are still going to have culling issues, now though Anet can say its all their fault since they give you the control over it.

If this turns out to be true then I’m done with the game. How can ESOL have a mega server with so much more players and no culling reported? Sadly GW2 is not giving me a reason to stay…

I have yet to see ESOL mega server deal with culling of there own so lets see how that works out (i have a feeling its going to be there too btw).

ESOL developed a brand new 3d engine, ANET just tweeked the GW1 3d engine which was never designed to fill large amounts of polygons.

Well will average pc be able to hand it? Its easy to say we have a super thing that will fix every thing and give you pure joy but we are not going to show you until its truly tested. GW2 is out now and its working with high number of ppl and its playable. Your going from a game like GW2 that has say 1k+ on a world to a game ESOL that has every one (if its like GW2 1 mil+) what do you think is going to happen?

If they can pull it off its an amassing thing i just think even they will still have some type of culling.

Heijincks.9267:

Culling isn’t just a bug, it’s more of a hardware issue plus internet latency.

If culling was simply “fixed”, most people would lag like crazy because their computers will not be strong enough to compensate. Only those with $1500 PCs would be able to run the game at all in large scale battles. This would give something EVERYONE would complain about. In order to not screw people with weaker PCs over, there is “culling”. This is why some people who run GW2 on an SSD with a powerful CPU do not really experience culling.

It’s like trying to run Far Cry 3 on a 2007 PC if culling was simply “switched off”.

Factor in internet latency, and it’ll be a big lagfest like the current world event situation in even smaller battles.

With the March update, I’m pretty sure a lot of people are going to start complaining about lag and low frame rates in even smaller battles. I’m almost sure of it.

I’m sorry, what?
I’m running an i5 2500k @ 4.6GHz with crossfired HD6950’s, 120GB SSD, 1080p resolution, 100Mb/s internet connection…
Culling, culling, culling like a motherkitten – PvE much worse than WvW.
I’ve tried all in-game graphics settings…

Sure, culling may have been implemented to enable people with budget / old PC’s to play the game but we need an option to turn it off completely. If your framerate suffers, build a faster PC or turn culling back on or lower your settings or play some other game. I dont know how people can expect to play a 2012 title on a 2007 PC, anyway (not directed at you personally, just saying)

Oh, and btw, I have pretty much the same culling issues on my (2007) Q9550 + 8800GT PC… but at much lower frame rates.

Edge.4180:

Conner.4702:

I fear my system will just melt into nothing. Unless the fix specificly targets WvW.

Yeah, I’m concerned the problem is just being pushed off to the players. As in, the problem will be fixed as long as you max all the culling options and have a fairly new/beefy system that can handle the additional workload.. otherwise you’re out of luck. Hopefully not.

Even if so, why is this bad? You know a better system is gonna give a better experience in MMOs with lots of people around. You know this before buying a system, and before buying an MMO. If people with a bad system are still given the option to activate culling and have a smooth game with that, I don’t see a problem with this.

Also to those who think culling is hardware / internet related: get a clue please

Culling used to mostly be in WvW and to some extent major cities but after the patch I have literally seen entire groups of people disappear before my eyes then reappear seconds later, it’s terribly apparent now. I did the dwayna event the other day and seriously couldn’t even attack anything because they were completely invisible with some popping up here and there, including player characters.

This may have been going on earlier but I never noticed it THIS bad.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Heijincks.9267:

Culling isn’t just a bug, it’s more of a hardware issue plus internet latency.

If culling was simply “fixed”, most people would lag like crazy because their computers will not be strong enough to compensate. Only those with $1500 PCs would be able to run the game at all in large scale battles. This would give something EVERYONE would complain about. In order to not screw people with weaker PCs over, there is “culling”. This is why some people who run GW2 on an SSD with a powerful CPU do not really experience culling.

It’s like trying to run Far Cry 3 on a 2007 PC if culling was simply “switched off”.

Factor in internet latency, and it’ll be a big lagfest like the current world event situation in even smaller battles.

With the March update, I’m pretty sure a lot of people are going to start complaining about lag and low frame rates in even smaller battles. I’m almost sure of it.

I’m sorry, what?
I’m running an i5 2500k @ 4.6GHz with crossfired HD6950’s, 120GB SSD, 1080p resolution, 100Mb/s internet connection…
Culling, culling, culling like a motherkitten – PvE much worse than WvW.
I’ve tried all in-game graphics settings…

Sure, culling may have been implemented to enable people with budget / old PC’s to play the game but we need an option to turn it off completely. If your framerate suffers, build a faster PC or turn culling back on or lower your settings or play some other game. I dont know how people can expect to play a 2012 title on a 2007 PC, anyway (not directed at you personally, just saying)

Oh, and btw, I have pretty much the same culling issues on my (2007) Q9550 + 8800GT PC… but at much lower frame rates.

4.6ghz on an i5? Eesh, with my ambient temp my computer would melt lol

Geotherma.2395:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Heijincks.9267:

Culling isn’t just a bug, it’s more of a hardware issue plus internet latency.

If culling was simply “fixed”, most people would lag like crazy because their computers will not be strong enough to compensate. Only those with $1500 PCs would be able to run the game at all in large scale battles. This would give something EVERYONE would complain about. In order to not screw people with weaker PCs over, there is “culling”. This is why some people who run GW2 on an SSD with a powerful CPU do not really experience culling.

It’s like trying to run Far Cry 3 on a 2007 PC if culling was simply “switched off”.

Factor in internet latency, and it’ll be a big lagfest like the current world event situation in even smaller battles.

With the March update, I’m pretty sure a lot of people are going to start complaining about lag and low frame rates in even smaller battles. I’m almost sure of it.

I’m sorry, what?
I’m running an i5 2500k @ 4.6GHz with crossfired HD6950’s, 120GB SSD, 1080p resolution, 100Mb/s internet connection…
Culling, culling, culling like a motherkitten – PvE much worse than WvW.
I’ve tried all in-game graphics settings…

Sure, culling may have been implemented to enable people with budget / old PC’s to play the game but we need an option to turn it off completely. If your framerate suffers, build a faster PC or turn culling back on or lower your settings or play some other game. I dont know how people can expect to play a 2012 title on a 2007 PC, anyway (not directed at you personally, just saying)

Oh, and btw, I have pretty much the same culling issues on my (2007) Q9550 + 8800GT PC… but at much lower frame rates.

4.6ghz on an i5? Eesh, with my ambient temp my computer would melt lol

Watercooling

Rukia.4802:

Geotherma.2395:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Heijincks.9267:

Culling isn’t just a bug, it’s more of a hardware issue plus internet latency.

If culling was simply “fixed”, most people would lag like crazy because their computers will not be strong enough to compensate. Only those with $1500 PCs would be able to run the game at all in large scale battles. This would give something EVERYONE would complain about. In order to not screw people with weaker PCs over, there is “culling”. This is why some people who run GW2 on an SSD with a powerful CPU do not really experience culling.

It’s like trying to run Far Cry 3 on a 2007 PC if culling was simply “switched off”.

Factor in internet latency, and it’ll be a big lagfest like the current world event situation in even smaller battles.

With the March update, I’m pretty sure a lot of people are going to start complaining about lag and low frame rates in even smaller battles. I’m almost sure of it.

I’m sorry, what?
I’m running an i5 2500k @ 4.6GHz with crossfired HD6950’s, 120GB SSD, 1080p resolution, 100Mb/s internet connection…
Culling, culling, culling like a motherkitten – PvE much worse than WvW.
I’ve tried all in-game graphics settings…

Sure, culling may have been implemented to enable people with budget / old PC’s to play the game but we need an option to turn it off completely. If your framerate suffers, build a faster PC or turn culling back on or lower your settings or play some other game. I dont know how people can expect to play a 2012 title on a 2007 PC, anyway (not directed at you personally, just saying)

Oh, and btw, I have pretty much the same culling issues on my (2007) Q9550 + 8800GT PC… but at much lower frame rates.

4.6ghz on an i5? Eesh, with my ambient temp my computer would melt lol

Watercooling

I have liquid cooling as well, but it can only do so much when your wife likes the house at 75f >.>

Rukia.4802:

Geotherma.2395:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Heijincks.9267:

Culling isn’t just a bug, it’s more of a hardware issue plus internet latency.

If culling was simply “fixed”, most people would lag like crazy because their computers will not be strong enough to compensate. Only those with $1500 PCs would be able to run the game at all in large scale battles. This would give something EVERYONE would complain about. In order to not screw people with weaker PCs over, there is “culling”. This is why some people who run GW2 on an SSD with a powerful CPU do not really experience culling.

It’s like trying to run Far Cry 3 on a 2007 PC if culling was simply “switched off”.

Factor in internet latency, and it’ll be a big lagfest like the current world event situation in even smaller battles.

With the March update, I’m pretty sure a lot of people are going to start complaining about lag and low frame rates in even smaller battles. I’m almost sure of it.

I’m sorry, what?
I’m running an i5 2500k @ 4.6GHz with crossfired HD6950’s, 120GB SSD, 1080p resolution, 100Mb/s internet connection…
Culling, culling, culling like a motherkitten – PvE much worse than WvW.
I’ve tried all in-game graphics settings…

Sure, culling may have been implemented to enable people with budget / old PC’s to play the game but we need an option to turn it off completely. If your framerate suffers, build a faster PC or turn culling back on or lower your settings or play some other game. I dont know how people can expect to play a 2012 title on a 2007 PC, anyway (not directed at you personally, just saying)

Oh, and btw, I have pretty much the same culling issues on my (2007) Q9550 + 8800GT PC… but at much lower frame rates.

4.6ghz on an i5? Eesh, with my ambient temp my computer would melt lol

Watercooling

That could work… but water is a huge hassle and why go to the cost and trouble if aircooling works?

Coolermaster hyper 212 evo, push-pull config, fans on auto.
But, we’re getting waaaaay off topic here lol.

Veldan.4637:

Edge.4180:

Conner.4702:

I fear my system will just melt into nothing. Unless the fix specificly targets WvW.

Yeah, I’m concerned the problem is just being pushed off to the players. As in, the problem will be fixed as long as you max all the culling options and have a fairly new/beefy system that can handle the additional workload.. otherwise you’re out of luck. Hopefully not.

Even if so, why is this bad? You know a better system is gonna give a better experience in MMOs with lots of people around. You know this before buying a system, and before buying an MMO. If people with a bad system are still given the option to activate culling and have a smooth game with that, I don’t see a problem with this.

It’s bad because once a developer goes down this route, the amount of effort to fix the problem by developing systems more efficiently generally takes a nose dive. Instead of “we’re working hard on it”, you’ll start seeing responses that instead imply tweaking the settings on your end or upgrading to the latest hardware is the best you can hope for.

Developers tend to get very creative when they’re constrained and have to produce something glorious within confined parameters. When those constraints go out the window we end up with bad choices that lead to the culling problems we have now. And that’s exactly the sort of thing that happens when the problem gets pushed off onto the player.

Now, before someone flies off the handle, I am not saying that’s what will happen here. Only that it’s something that tends to happen in this industry and until we see differently it’s something to keep in mind.

Heijincks.9267:

Culling isn’t just a bug, it’s more of a hardware issue plus internet latency.

That does not explain why during the Balthazar event i recently took part in virtually no players, npc’s or mobs were visible for the entire duration of the event. 20 minutes hardware and internet latency? I don’t think so.

Rather i think that this:
Habib Loew: “It was all about limiting the breakdown of resources from a client to server standpoint.”

is much more about server resources than about client resources.

dunno.

last patch mostly didnt deliver.

guild missions are not keeping most players happy, we have a lag fest farming endgame, and classic boring dailies (which are the only thing most players do now).

anet is still unable to nail the endgame.
BUT they also dont encourage starting an alt because of the gear grind.
result; boring.

too bad that such a well design game cannot have the metathinking designers to back it up; its missing the endgame ideas/concept !!! people were ok with dailies for the first
month but now, its getting boring quickly and guild
mission are not accessible easily, even in a big guild, because people dont repeat them because of reward system.

basically; kitten what are you doing with your game anet?
“create” fun gameplay or youll keep seeing the playerbase of both hardcores and casual and pvper diminish. because you cannot deliver for any of these group now by trying to be a little bit everything.

Asglarek.8976:

Jski.6180:

StormageddonBK.9842:

Lexandro.1456:

I read that piece and it actually said that culling would be “player controled” iirc. That means its just a slider or setting in the game now. High end systems can push the slider out and get less noticable culling or possibly eliminate it.

A LOT of people are still going to have culling issues, now though Anet can say its all their fault since they give you the control over it.

If this turns out to be true then I’m done with the game. How can ESOL have a mega server with so much more players and no culling reported? Sadly GW2 is not giving me a reason to stay…

I have yet to see ESOL mega server deal with culling of there own so lets see how that works out (i have a feeling its going to be there too btw).

ESOL developed a brand new 3d engine, ANET just tweeked the GW1 3d engine which was never designed to fill large amounts of polygons.

There is nothing wrong with being excited about a game, but you haven’t actually played the game NOR have you seen the game in action. If you are excited about the game, great but don’t act like it is better or will be better UNTIL you have actually played the game.

Besides culling isn’t exclusive to gw2, it also happens to planetside 2 as well. The alternative to culling for the majority of MMO players is a really big drop in FPS like we used to experience in aion, well essentially you had to turn off all player models and leave only player names.

added: read my signature it speaks the truth.

problem with gw2 isnt the engine so much as what they do with it.

its a thempark; embrace it.

Avatar.1923:

problem with gw2 isnt the engine so much as what they do with it.

its a thempark; embrace it.

What exactly does that have to do with anything. The people that play guild wars 2 are under no illusions that it isn’t a themepark. Now if only sandbox players could stop QQing and go play all those great sandbox, games and leave us UNENLIGHTENED folks here.

you go me wrong, im ok with a thempark.

i think it should be even more pushed in that direction by giving us fun stuff to do instead of farming and facerolling dailies.

im no sandboxer.

“Now with culling turned off it really IS on their end. I have a system that is being constantly upgraded since about 3 years ago when I decided that doing a full rig upgrade every 5 years, like I had been doing, wasn’t worth it anymore. Games and technology that I use has changed that much that I really do need to upgrade stuff on a piecemeal basis. However the one thing I can’t upgrade (based on my location) is my internet connection. Most Oceanic’s are in the same boat. A lot of them can be on 24mb connections (ADSL2+) but out in the sticks our connection is 8mb, which should still be very good… but with an average ping of 350-450ms (for all, regardless of internet speed) outside of group events, things don’t bode so well for us.”

This is especially difficult for us when the primary avoidance mechanism is the “dodge” mechanic. As “Oceanics” (and some others too) we start that 250-400ms behind due to unavoidable network overheads. And as a “senior” player (agewise) the reflexes have difficulty making up for the inherent latency. Add culling to that and at times we are dead before the characters rend for us to see.

Edit: sorry about the quote but I had issues using the quote mechanism….probably just me.

Im guessing it will work similar to aion if you have played it, first it loads name plates then models>low res textures>high res textures and it worked pretty well tho game itself ran like crap

Tried again last night and everything was dandy for an hour or so (no lag and very little culling) and then wham, lag and culling returned in an instant with a vengeance!

The culling went from seeing a player model here and there appear and disappear every couple of seconds (this is good lol) to the entire screen of players vanishing.

The lag I went from press key and attack immediately to press key and wait… wait… wait… attack (just over a 2 second delay on all keystrokes).

I persisted for 10 minutes and quit.

What’s going on? Is there someone who could let me know why the game is OK for an hour and then instantaneously hit a brick wall? Is it because a truck load of players logged onto the server at that time? It was about 10pm last night (Melbourne +11 GMT I think).

They will just make their problem our problem that how anet work