Guild Wars 2

A long time ago, in a forum area not far from here, we used to have lively debates on RNG and rare loot. The debate would go back and forth between economy minded players, and players who just wanted to collect everything. It was pretty much a one-sided discussion, because for a while, the economy as a whole needed RNG to keep the fragile balance of currency value. Rare items were rare, and the game benefited from this because luxury items had more prestige.

Fast forward to today, and things are a lot different. Anet changed their stance on reward structures, and made loot a lot easier to get. Various PvP reward tracks were added, and even WvW got some love. In PvE, HoT introduced some of the most rewarding meta events in the 4 year history of this game. It got even better when Anet tripled the amount of chest spawns in the open world. RNG still exists, but considering all that’s happened, is RNG punishing enough?

Players have a love/hate relationship with RNG. I’m one of those who believe in the concept of RNG, and I feel that this game has gotten a bit to “reward happy”. This isn’t about feeding off of the tears of players who RNG hasn’t blessed. It’s more about why RNG is good for the game, and having really rare rewards be that much more desirable. It keeps the game alive longer, since End Game is truly the end when you’ve collected everything you ever wanted. Artificial gates, such as Time gated mats or RNG, help to prolong game goals for players.

IMO, rewards need to be scaled back. Easy loot makes players feel good in the short term, but Devs have to already think about the longevity of the game. When players run out of things to do, or run out of rewards to get, some lose the desire to keep playing. This feeling is amplified in content droughts.

RNG is only interesting when the things that are acquired are worthy of the attention. Now that pre-cursors can be crafted there is nothing that RNG does.

RNG is still quite formidable where it matters. All of the good skins, and ascended weapons and armour require either a fair bit of coin, luck or grinding. In some instances, all three.

I also disagree about scarcity and long term goals being good during content droughts. That’d be more likely to increase the frustration people are already experiencing. I’d rather be able to get a bunch of stuff done while waiting for new content, than be stuck on that one thing for ages.

I really don’t mind RNG if there’s at least a half-decent chance of receiving something good. The reason so many players thought RNG was bad was simply because it was implemented at every possible opportunity at the beginning of GW2 AND because the chance of getting good items was horribad (and still is sometimes).

What I absolutely hate is when time-gated stuff and RNG are implemented to prevent players from progressing. When players like me, that may only have the chance to play once a week for a long period of time, that stuff sucks. I could easily make a ton of progress in that one day during the week, but because of time-gates and RNG I wouldn’t be able to.

Would they really be good items if they were easier to get? Unless you were planning on using them, they’d have little value if they were common.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Stuff….

You’re really bored aren’t you. Run out of socially divisive topics did we?

RNG is fine where it is. At best it needs to be taken down several notches to give players more feeling of progression. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t take an average amount of time to get a given item, just means that there shouldn’t be a chance it would take an obscene amount of time to get an item.

RNG is still going strong, it’s been a while since I’ve seen a named exotic.

I can’t explain the joy I felt last night when I got an endless fractal tonic from a T4 fractal XD

This emotion cannot be experienced by grinding, collection-hunting and crafting items.

I think the OP is confusing RNG and rewards as one and the same thing. Rewards or loots is what you get when you kill a creature or complete an event or some such. RNG is what you get from that reward. Simply because we may get a lot of rewards or loots does not mean we actually get much out of it. A good example is that a lot of what we get we salvage and can turn into nothing more but a few extra Mith ore here or an extra couple of wood there….

What you are saying is that we should get less rewards to prolong our playing exp? I don’t agree. I have been playing since the head start and have probably close to 4-5k hours and I still don’t have a legendary or other such things some people do. There is plenty for me to still work towards!

Sure “some” people farm all day long and can get things far faster than the rest of us. Sure “some” people play 24/7. But is that our fault and should everyone else be punished for that?

I call myself a casual hardcore, being I can put in hardcore hours but I play the game in a casual way. What I mean by that is I do what is fun or work slowly on things like achievements and such. I don’t farm as such.

So please, do not try and turn this game into a grinder or one where rewards/loot is once again harder to come by simply to artificially make the game seem like there is more gameplay from it for the hardcore players because they have to “grind” more. No if anything please add more “content” for these players to play or more “shinies” for them to work towards from their current grinding.

That’s my 2 gp worth.

i want less kittens in my inventory. too many chests that explode into a ton of items i have to salvage and sell and delete. ridiculous. I mean what is considered good exactly mr OP in terms of RNG? yellows and exotics that don’t have rare skins? Those are just like any other salvage/sell item u get in a daily chest…..nohting special.

I hardly ever get anything outside of that from RNG. And when i do on those rare occasions its worth 10=20g generally on the tp. I mean thats fine for me i guess….its ‘just’ enough and its not worth anything really but is something that gets me excited enough for the prospect of finding a legendary precursor or whatever some day.

but ya i want less loot and less rewards….since that means i get less loot and have less kittens to get rid of after every stupid thing i do.

It would be wise to not tie achievement points into getting a certain piece of loot. I think that’s what sparks a lot of the ill feeling.

I like the feeling of being impressed when I see a player running around wielding a rare skin. I don’t like that feeling to quickly turn into sorrow or jealousy because it’s a skin I require to unlock for an achievement; an achievement I’m never likely to complete because of the value placed on that particular skin unlock.

I don’t think many “prestige” skins currently exist in the game that aren’t a requirement for some kind of collection or achievement… which is a shame. I would defintely be in favour of having skins drop in the game which are subject to harsh RNG but are only there to impress.

Sarie.1630:

It would be wise to not tie achievement points into getting a certain piece of loot. I think that’s what sparks a lot of the ill feeling.

I like the feeling of being impressed when I see a player running around wielding a rare skin. I don’t like that feeling to quickly turn into sorrow or jealousy because it’s a skin I require to unlock for an achievement; an achievement I’m never likely to complete because of the value placed on that particular skin unlock.

I don’t think many “prestige” skins currently exist in the game that aren’t a requirement for some kind of collection or achievement… which is a shame. I would defintely be in favour of having skins drop in the game which are subject to harsh RNG but are only there to impress.

My thoughts exactly.
Also, less crafting!

Neural.1824:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Stuff….

You’re really bored aren’t you. Run out of socially divisive topics did we?

RNG is fine where it is. At best it needs to be taken down several notches to give players more feeling of progression. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t take an average amount of time to get a given item, just means that there shouldn’t be a chance it would take an obscene amount of time to get an item.

I vote for this being the answer to the question.

Yargesh.4965:

Neural.1824:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Stuff….

You’re really bored aren’t you. Run out of socially divisive topics did we?

RNG is fine where it is. At best it needs to be taken down several notches to give players more feeling of progression. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t take an average amount of time to get a given item, just means that there shouldn’t be a chance it would take an obscene amount of time to get an item.

I vote for this being the answer to the question.

I second that.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A long time ago, in a forum area not far from here, we used to have lively debates on RNG and rare loot. The debate would go back and forth between economy minded players, and players who just wanted to collect everything. It was pretty much a one-sided discussion, because for a while, the economy as a whole needed RNG to keep the fragile balance of currency value. Rare items were rare, and the game benefited from this because luxury items had more prestige.

Fast forward to today, and things are a lot different. Anet changed their stance on reward structures, and made loot a lot easier to get. Various PvP reward tracks were added, and even WvW got some love. In PvE, HoT introduced some of the most rewarding meta events in the 4 year history of this game. It got even better when Anet tripled the amount of chest spawns in the open world. RNG still exists, but considering all that’s happened, is RNG punishing enough?

Players have a love/hate relationship with RNG. I’m one of those who believe in the concept of RNG, and I feel that this game has gotten a bit to “reward happy”. This isn’t about feeding off of the tears of players who RNG hasn’t blessed. It’s more about why RNG is good for the game, and having really rare rewards be that much more desirable. It keeps the game alive longer, since End Game is truly the end when you’ve collected everything you ever wanted. Artificial gates, such as Time gated mats or RNG, help to prolong game goals for players.

IMO, rewards need to be scaled back. Easy loot makes players feel good in the short term, but Devs have to already think about the longevity of the game. When players run out of things to do, or run out of rewards to get, some lose the desire to keep playing. This feeling is amplified in content droughts.

You’re not fooling anyone with this post. This is a suggestion to help players who work the market to make more gold.

Neural.1824:

Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t take an average amount of time to get a given item, just means that there shouldn’t be a chance it would take an obscene amount of time to get an item.

That’s mathematically unrealistic. If something is obtainable with a high chance, it becomes common and maintains little value. If the chance goes down enough that it maintains value, then it becomes possible for someone to have such bad luck that it takes an obscene amount of time. If that RNG is given a safety net of tokens, then people see it as a grind (“I’m required to spend x hours to earn”).

There’s no magic balance that pleases everyone or even avoids intense disappointment for some.

The best that developers can manage is probably offering a lot of things using a variety of mechanics, from very rare RNG to scavenger hunts (e.g. collections) to token systems to a mix of all of those. Based on those standards, GW2’s biggest issue is probably that ANet hasn’t found a way to release enough items so that there’s always something each of us can be working on using our preferred mechanic.

A punishing RNG does little to nothing for the longevity of a game. To the contrary: the randomness – which, as has been discussed before, seems to include so-called “lucky accounts” where some people get the amount of rare drops per week that others get maybe in a year – may actually be disheartening to those who are not lucky enough to get worthwhile drops on a somewhat regular basis.
Longevity is affected by how much you can achieve and how long it takes you to get there. Getting lucky is not an achievement. Getting lucky is not difficult. Getting lucky is just something that happens to you. If your RNG is civil enough you can expect people to try their luck for a while, hoping to finally get the drop they want, but only those who are exceptionally stupid (or gambling addicts) bank on a lottery jackpot. If the chances to get what you want are abysmal most people just give up sooner rather than later and end up disappointed and less likely to support the game, because the less you gain the less you stand to lose leaving for greener pastures.
The only people who profit from a punishing RNG are the super-lucky accounts and the rich players who can play the market on a large scale, because they are the ones making money off the collectors who buy those super-rare drops.

Obviously RNG is doing just fine because I end up scrapping and selling every weapon and piece of armor I get from drops, events, etc. even with 113% Luck/Magic Find.

If you want an example of a dead game that uses heavy RnG; take a look at Archeage. As Gw2 where it stands, the RnG is good as it is.

I hate RNG on collections stuff. Some things require a rare drop from a world boss to even unlock the achievement just to get it started.

RNG and amount of loot are completely separate concepts.

You can have no RNG and give out a bunch of tokens that can be exchanged for things you want. There an be too many tokens such that you can trivially buy what you need. Same effect as the OP is complaining about, but no RNG.

Too much RNG is when you repeat the same event over and over hoping for that lucky drop. I’m glad we’re not there either.

You get pretty of loot, but is it good loot? Ask the magic conch….