Guild Wars 2

posed as a question, instead of a statement to allow for discussion

This OP has been changed because the reason for this thread turned out to be invalid, there was actually another issue related to lighting, that was causing my issues
I have made a new thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-take-a-look-at-the-shaders-lighting/first#post3546439
to discuss the actual issue.

I have been plagued by a certain ‘disconnect’ from the world of Tyria for a while now, and have tried to find out exactly why that is. Not being able to find anything tangible, like f/e not having any real problem with huge norn and quaggan backpacks (although, yeah no, also in places without them I have this feel).

This personal quest lead me to the lighting on Tyria, now I already thought that nights should be a lot darker to allow for a better nightly atmosphere, but seeing I couldn’t find anything else that may be causing this disconnect, I wondered if it may be due to the lighting overall.

Ok, couple of things in response:
– While I think the nights could be darker, I would not advocate a pitch black night, a 15-20% darkening would already do a lot to improve the atmosphere, while making sure that things closer up are still viewable enough to not be a huge strain on the eyesight. But at the same time it will mean that feature lighting in the distance will be popping up a bit more, as to be expected.

=> Related to this, is that this thread was not supposed to be about the night lighting. It was about me trying to find out why I have a certain disconnect in regards to immersion during playing GW2. And seeing I could not figure out any obvious reasons, it had to be something more subtle. Which is what prompted me to look at the art-style f/e, and also the lighting.

A first test in a certain area of the game, led me to think that it was actually over lighting that was causing the disconnect, and prompted me to make this thread. As it turned out though, it wasn’t that things were over lit, it was that a lot of artefacts in the game are ‘under shadowed’.

- Thus, I should really make a new thread that addresses the correct issue!
Now I did look into changing the gamma on my screen, but currently that option is ‘greyed out’ and it is said to use the gamma setting that is set to go with the software that is running. Meaning obviously, that the gamma I run, is the gamma that GW2 sets. And yes, as soon as I get in game I will have a look at my options there.

tl&dr, this thread is not about darker night, although I wouldn’t mind them at all. Nor is it about the game being ‘over lit’. Maybe I should just make a new thread addressing the correct issue… :P

I like it bright, so I’d say: Objection!!! That is seriously not the cause for your confused state!

Then again, you agree with me that the world is overly bright ^^ :P :p

It might be nice if the ‘nights’ were a bit dimmer, but I don’t think the ‘days’ are overly bright. Some areas seem brighter than other areas, some have more fog, or dust, or other airborne elements, changing their overall lighting.

As such, I think the lighting is fine during the day.

Isn’t this pretty normal for a lot of games? Seems like every MMORPG I’ve ever played, you could barely tell it was night unless you looked up at the sky.

Even single player games… in spite of Skyrim’s trying for realism with its dirt, you had to mod it if you wanted night to feel like night.

I think it’s a standard choice devs make when they confront playability versus mood/realism. Playability wins, and they make “night” bright enough for you to see everything clearly.

@Gibson, well its not really just about night, it’s as if my mind registers something isn’t quite right and then that kills immersion somehow.

And I’m not sure why I didn’t try different maps, but after what Inculpatus said about different maps being different, I thought I would check different maps. And here I did indeed notice that the lighting (overall) was different…. :/

But! I also noticed that, if that wasn’kitten what it may well be. And indeed it has to do with lighting, and may well be why I linked it to being ‘over lit’ on the other map:
the lack of contrast in ‘own’ shadows , and in some cases a total lack of shadows on things.

It’s just that it’s not due to places being over lit, its due to shadow being ‘under dark’, if that makes sense :P … the contrast between a lit portion of things, and the ‘own shadow’ portion of the same thing, is sometimes non existent, which lead me to conclude the place if over lit, while in fact there just aren’t enough shadows in places, or places that my brain says should be dark due to the direction of light, aren’t dark at all… this then makes everything look so crisp, and brakes my immersion.

Ohw and other thing I noticed (on high settings) is that the ‘highlights’ are sometimes on the side the ‘light source’ dictates I should be dark. This is especially weird if you are standing in front of a tree, with a shadow to the right, while at the same time having highlights on the right side of your character.

Also, a lot of inside places don’t even cast a shadow…

So yes, I appear to be wrong, Tyria isn’t over lit (during the day at least, the night could be darker still). But there is still something wrong with the lighting, or rather the shaders, causing things not to cast their own shadow upon themselves (or with no noticeable difference) while trees on the ground f/e do cast clear shadows.

While I do not register this consciously most of the time, my subconscious does notice there is something wrong, and snaps me out of immersion.

====

Tnx for your input all I think I now truly found what subtle thing it is that feels so odd about the worlds sometimes … now how to describe it properly to suggest improvement.

spoiler alert

The lighting is actually just the first of many things that will lead to a catastrophic event known as “The Illuminating” when the 7th dragon, Leuchtes, assembles itself as if out of a rift in the sky.

Have you tried adjusting the color scheme in your video card settings (CCC for AMD/ATI users, not sure of the nVidia equivalent)?

I have a color scheme for every single game I have installed (over 40) and I have no problem with GW2. Sure the nights aren’t pitch-black, but I can certainly tell when it is night unlike some posters have stated here.

Most people haven’t properly calibrated their monitors, either (most people have it set way too blue which kills contrast).

I agree. I find the lighting to be fine during the day, but during nighttime and when you’re in areas that should be dark….it’s way too bright. It makes me wish we could set brightness/contrast separately for all three situations.

brokenrabbit.6538:

Have you tried adjusting the color scheme in your video card settings (CCC for AMD/ATI users, not sure of the nVidia equivalent)?

I have a color scheme for every single game I have installed (over 40) and I have no problem with GW2. Sure the nights aren’t pitch-black, but I can certainly tell when it is night unlike some posters have stated here.

Most people haven’t properly calibrated their monitors, either (most people have it set way too blue which kills contrast).

Will try this once i get home.

Overall, i agree on the under-shadowed part more than the over-lit part. There are definetly places in the world where common sense says that i should not be able to see a thing. Many caves for instance. I dont even notice if there are torches lighting them, they are bright as daylight, and i wont even notice that night has fallen when im inside a cave.

Whats interesting is that i seem to recall some kind of glare effect whenever you exit a cave or something. Meaning that the outside looks almost blindingly bright for a few seconds(during the day), mimicing the eye as it is getting used to the new lighting.

But thats the thing, i cant decide if i really saw it in GW2 or another game… Regardless though, that works on a macro-scale (from cave to daylight), but not on a micro-scale (looking at a torch after staring into the ‘darkness’ of the cave, or not seeing a thing in the cave after turning away from the torch.) I suspect that would need much more processing too. Would it be worth it? Skyrim can do it with mods, but skyrim doesnt have 100+ players on screen applying tons and tons of particle effects to a single point.

But im sure some kind of inbuilt contrast modifier could be implemented for areas that would benefit from it.

Just imagine how the cave troll in Queensdale (zerg-trains aside) would feel if the cave was only as bright as the light-sources in it allow until you get out of the cave. Or if the Shadow Behemoth would actually have anything to do with shadows, applying effects in the area that makes you see no further than a few feet.

lakdav.3694:

Just imagine how the cave troll in Queensdale (zerg-trains aside) would feel if the cave was only as bright as the light-sources in it allow until you get out of the cave. Or if the Shadow Behemoth would actually have anything to do with shadows, applying effects in the area that makes you see no further than a few feet.

^^^This, would be awesome. I’m someone who likes bright light and, for instance, the almost glaring light in Ascalon is brilliant because I’ve been to areas in the world with similar terrain and the light is so intense it can hurt your eyes (luckily, that isn’t the case with Ascalon, but I like the brightness). But I agree that shadows could be darker, particularly in areas as mentioned above. Not everywhere, mind. I dislike peering at the screen because it’s so dark for hours. But I really like the section in the Weyandt’s Revenge JP in Lion’s Arch where the room is completely black, only getting very weird, pale light in flashes. If the troll cave in Queensdale was like that, it would be amazing (though particle effects when the zerg rolls round would be pretty blinding).

Shadow Behemoth using shadows in his attacks would be cool. I loved the toxic hallucination effect of the toxic gas in Kessex Hills. It’s properly disorientating and makes the fights way more interesting. Something similar but with shadows would be cool.

The lighting for you is in fixed position with respect to the camera. I suppose this was a compromise that, while not ideal, always gave a reasonable lighting effect.

I love the dark areas in GW2, I carry torches with me just for them, Would be nice if the torches were useful outside of them :p

Another reason to bring a ranger

emikochan.8504:

I love the dark areas in GW2, I carry torches with me just for them, Would be nice if the torches were useful outside of them :p

Another reason to bring a ranger

Or the Firey Dragon Swords. Light the path…

I totally agree with everything you describe

lakdav.3694:

emikochan.8504:

I love the dark areas in GW2, I carry torches with me just for them, Would be nice if the torches were useful outside of them :p

Another reason to bring a ranger

Or the Firey Dragon Swords. Light the path…

Don’t have enough gw1 points T_T

And here I was thinking this post was about the prevalence of drinking booze in the game. I get the achievement for food after eating 1000 things, it takes 10,000 drinks…hmmm, just say no.

As far as lighting, having a torch off hand is a really good way to offset the shadow issue. I think if we really had “night” a lot of us would be falling off cliffs and our repair bills might increase a touch so having a dusk lighting as night time is fine with me.

I sometimes am unsure if my color saturation is due to the game or my monitor, some areas feel like it’s too saturated while others can seem washed out and the nightmare court has a real contrast issue in my eyes, especially now that they inflict torment (not sure if they always did, really noticed it after the Kessex Hills events).

Brightness is fine, tune down your gamma / brightness if you need it darker.

If you make this game too dark, it will be impossible to move around. Large portions of the map will be pitch black due to the lack of unnatural light. All you would see is the towns and camps. And it most certainly would be strainful for the eyes.

Gibson.4036:

I think it’s a standard choice devs make when they confront playability versus mood/realism. Playability wins, and they make “night” bright enough for you to see everything clearly.

DayZ. That is all.

emikochan.8504:

I love the dark areas in GW2, I carry torches with me just for them, Would be nice if the torches were useful outside of them :p

Another reason to bring a ranger

Ranger + Torch + actual darkness in caves and night time -> Bonfire =

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/erikkain/files/2013/09/Dark-Souls-2-bonfire1.jpg

[Sourced from forbes]

EDIT: No tomb of the giants bonfire pic T_T

Back inn the days of Morrowind there was a mod that made nights really dark. To the point you couldn’t seer anything at all unless you had a touch or something. It was cool for a few hours then after wards it was just a big Fregin annoyance.

Deo be careful what you wish for.

Wish the game ran with cryengine 4

Ok, couple of things in response:
- While I think the nights could be darker, I would not advocate a pitch black night, a 15-20% darkening would already do a lot to improve the atmosphere, while making sure that things closer up are still viewable enough to not be a huge strain on the eyesight. But at the same time it will mean that feature lighting in the distance will be popping up a bit more, as to be expected.

=> Related to this, is that this thread was not supposed to be about the night lighting. It was about me trying to find out why I have a certain disconnect in regards to immersion during playing GW2. And seeing I could not figure out any obvious reasons, it had to be something more subtle. Which is what prompted me to look at the art-style f/e, and also the lighting.

A first test in a certain area of the game, led me to think that it was actually over lighting that was causing the disconnect, and prompted me to make this thread. As it turned out though, it wasn’t that things were over lit, it was that a lot of artefacts in the game are ‘under shadowed’.

- Thus, I should really make a new thread that addresses the correct issue!
Now I did look into changing the gamma on my screen, but currently that option is ‘greyed out’ and it is said to use the gamma setting that is set to go with the software that is running. Meaning obviously, that the gamma I run, is the gamma that GW2 sets. And yes, as soon as I get in game I will have a look at my options there.

tl&dr, this thread is not about darker night, although I wouldn’t mind them at all. Nor is it about the game being ‘over lit’. Maybe I should just make a new thread addressing the correct issue… :P

No, it’s not. Lighting is one the things this game is fantastic at. Could it be darker at night? Yes, but the daytime is fantastic.

DarksunG.9537:

No, it’s not. Lighting is one the things this game is fantastic at.

Nah it’s not, just read the message just above yours.. there is a lot wrong with ‘lighting’ mainly the shaders and highlighters in some odd ways…

hmmmm, just got new computercomponents a few weeks ago.

I do understand the topic and do see its the reflection/lighting. In my old setup I had many settings on low or medium. it caused less reflection. This is what I think is the real cause:

Anet is superb in ‘hiding’ bad graphics. The way they do it is by using art. the water-inkt style is awesome to hide the lack of graphics. The shadows and reflecting they use are however using real life effects. So, the reflection of the sun on a metal plated roof is shown as a real sun relflection in world that is painted. This makes it show a lil bit out of place.

Having said that, to me it is no problem, it looks awesome. For the OP it is an issue, but keep in mind it is result of keeping the gamet open for everyone.!!

One of the most attractive things about this game is the intricate landscape with the sun shining down on it.
I love that this game is not all dank, dark, gloomy, & depressing.
There are some darker areas like underground/caves/dungeons and that’s fine & I enjoy those too but, leave the rest of the world alone. It’s quite beautiful.
If you want somber, dismal, desolate, landscapes, go play ESO

you can have a beautiful night too, not asking for pitchblack, aren’t there two moons? would be a decent amount of illumination, would be nice having everything bathed in moonlight

I don’t know, if this game is over lit, or not, but what I know, is, that this game definetely has since the cutthrouat politics patchs a huge issue with environmental lighting to the point, that the game has since then at very alot of places in the whole world problems with the environmental graphics gettign showed to you transparent, when you move around the camera position..

So transparant, that you can see through basically everything.. walls, mountains, the ground, character models. just everything.
Its a problem with the cam position, that triggers these graphic problems of the environmental lightign that leads to these transparency issues.
Its surely not a hardware problem or so, because I never had any graphic problems before that patch and as long i don’t move around the cam i get everything shown completely normally.

Maps where this problem is very extreme are the snowy maps in the norn regions, because these maps are naturally alreay very bright through all the white snow and these maps have a few places with heights where you have to move the cam posiotion to see where you are runnign to where you have to correct permanently your cam to not see all the tiem just a transparent environment.

I don’t know what to do anymore, changign graphic settigns doesn’t help, i new also that im not alone with this problem. Someone else has posted this problem with me already in the bug sub forum-.
I don’t know if ANet graphic team is even awayre of this huge lighting issue that makes whole map parts transparent.

All I know is, this huge problem exists now nearly a half year and nothing has been officially done yet to fix this problem sadly

I’m fine with daylight.

Nighttime is a different opinion though. It should be a lot darker. They could place some torches around as a source of natural light, but not close to each other. Something like, Skyrim…

But this will result in a lot of work – I am not sure how clean the codes of GW2 are to handle this changes.

Mochann.5298:

Back inn the days of Morrowind there was a mod that made nights really dark. To the point you couldn’t seer anything at all unless you had a touch or something. It was cool for a few hours then after wards it was just a big Fregin annoyance.

Deo be careful what you wish for.

I’ve actually used similar mods in Oblivion and Skyrim, and I agree. Pitch black wrecks overall playability. But dark enough that a torch is handy to have would be just right. In other words, you don’t need a torch, since you can see, but the extra light is nice to have. Right now, night time is just daytime with less glare.

Tyria was overly bright until recently.

Picture says a lot about it.

Can you see my character in the red square?

I think Tyria is way too bright at night. In general the nights are hardly noticeable most of the time.

I would love a 10 or 20% darker night.