Guild Wars 2

I can remember when GW2 was originally coming-out and unique underwater combat was one of ArenaNet’s exciting new selling points. Then the game was released and we realized that it wasn’t what anyone would call finished. Well, it’s about 3 years later now and it’s not much better. What I’m primarily referencing is the limited use of utility skills. There have been some improvements, but nowhere near what there should be.

I recently decided to buy HoT and roll a Revenant. Once I started building my character I realized none of the stances I was interested in were available while underwater. There are currently only two stances usable underwater which you are forced to use whether they compliment your build or not (the spear being the only usable weapon to boot). This means that only 40% of the Rev’s utility skills are available underwater, which you aren’t free to pick from and must appear in their respective stances, of course.

I’m not ragging-on the Rev, I’ve found it a very unique and enjoyable class. I’ve had many Alts and noticed this is a consistent problem, as you probably have, too. The Rev is a prime example of how water combat falls short of the generated expectation and continues to do so. My ultimate grievance is this lack of options to the player removes interest from an entire layer of an otherwise enjoyable game.

Let them first sort things out on land and then maybe move onto aquatic based combat.

Don’t really know how Anet could improve too much upon the existing underwater combat system. That being said I also do think that being underwater in GW2 is mostly a drag and unenjoyable and something should definitely change with that.

Biggest problem with being underwater in the game is probably the fact that some classes are totally useless whereas some classes are ridiculously overpowered in comparison. OP brought up Rev so I could point out that it is one of the op classes underwater, Shiro stance, spam skill 2(no cd, 0 energy cost) and just use impossible odds as often as possible, things just die without thinking.

Now maybe they should have taken the chance to improve the system when we had an influx of new players around HoT release, but now even those people have gotten to the mindset where they avoid being underwater as much as possible. Because what use is there to develop new content for a community that dislikes the current content(no pun intended) we have?

I found underwater combat to be very easy with Rev. You use Shiro and can essentially span your #2 nonstop and while using impossible odds whenever it has enough charge.

Edit: Oh. Saw someone already posted about this as I was writing my post.

ANet has made it clear that underwater combat isn’t a near-term priority. We can see it in several ways:

• New maps have no water or very little at best; some maps have had the amount of water reduced.
• New weapon sets include only terrestrial weapons (16 skins instead of a “full” set of 19).
• Despite the introduction of specializations, plenty of builds are crippled underwater because the skills they affect can’t be used.
• Revenant is missing an alternative weapon.
• There are only a tiny number of available ‘breathers’, nearly all with a single skin, nearly all of masterwork or fine quality, and very few craftable. Acquisition methods are extremely limited.

The only thing that’s new for underwater combat is the introduce of one (1) rare type, one (1) exotic, and recipes for ascended (which are 100% useless for most people and of limited utility for the few who do high-level fractals).

I’m sure that some day, ANet will update underwater combat so that it’s on par with the rest of the game.

However, I won’t hold my breath waiting for it.

For what it’s worth, Elementalists and Engineers only have one underwater weapon, too.

That might seem like a strange comparison, since Eles/Engies don’t have weapon swap, but neither did Revenants until developers added it in response to player feedback during beta. At that point, I imagine it was too late to add five new weapon skills from scratch.

That’s not to say aquatic combat is alive and kicking, but it does explain what’s going on with the Revenant a little. Just like other classes have to fall back on utility skills that might not fit their build underwater, the Revenant falls back on stances that don’t fit their build. It’s one of the same old problems aquatic combat has already had, just with a little extra confusion from the way Revenants do skills.

It makes me sad because I actually enjoy underwater combat. I even crafted Ascended breather and underwater weapons just for map completion. I regret nothing.

Mea.5491:

I even crafted Ascended breather and underwater weapons just for map completion.

Why you needed “Ascended breather and underwater weapons” for map completion?

Aquatic combat is one of those concepts that had a lot of promise but were half-butted into the release and then because of that players didn’t really get into it, which led to unfamiliarity and disliking of it and eventually had it pretty much scrapped.

It’s easy to see just by looking at classes and how they work underwater. Some are amazing (Engi, Necro, Mesmer, Ranger [pet tanking for days]) while others can’t even use their utility skills (Thieves, somewhat Revenant) without that making any sense or just plain suck (Guardian lol). Oftentimes I read that players found the 3-axis combat confusing, which I’d account on the lack of exposure in 99,99% of the game. Though I’d agree that going melee underwater can be a pain at times.

I’d say what would need fixing to make underwater combat viable (most importantly opening up utility skills and give classes equal footing), but it’s pretty clear that ANet all but scrapped aquatic combat from the game (removal from PvP, WvW and nothing added in PvE). People keep saying that Bubbles would warrant a complete aquatic combat overhaul, but I highly doubt that would ever happen. It would be much easier to have the story go along the lines of ‘we got this here machinery with which we can force him up / go down and create airdomes so we don’t need to swim!’ than to completely change the existing system in a meaningful way.

On a completely unrelated note, still baffled by Engi grenade auto working underwater but not on land.

AWF.8941:

I can remember when GW2 was originally coming-out and unique underwater combat was one of ArenaNet’s exciting new selling points. Then the game was released and we realized that it wasn’t what anyone would call finished. Well, it’s about 3 years later now and it’s not much better. What I’m primarily referencing is the limited use of utility skills. There have been some improvements, but nowhere near what there should be.

Right. I was having similar thoughts a few days ago and wrote them up here:

http://pocketmyriad.xyz/bubbles-the-dragon

There’s a genre of action games about flying mechas that basically do underwater action combat in the air. The current underwater combat in Guild Wars 2 isn’t exaggerated enough and that’s what needs to happen to give it the “whoosh” it needs, exaggerated movement and powers.

The mastery system might be a place to start. There’s a lot of untapped story potential too, you have the largos and the deep sea dragon, you have Abaddon the “dead” God of Water and whatever legacy he might have. You have the quaggan and the krait to play the straight good guys / bad guys. Maybe not enough for an expansion but perhaps part of one or a Living Story experiment.

One of the Dragons is a sea dragon. So underwater combat will be addressed eventually.

They will probably make a big deal out of the overhaul. Every elite spec gets new underwater weapons, all utilities revamped to work underwater, ect.

I say it’ll be the 3rd expac from now. (4th expac in total)

Marthkus.4615:

One of the Dragons is a sea dragon. So underwater combat will be addressed eventually.

They will probably make a big deal out of the overhaul. Every elite spec gets new underwater weapons, all utilities revamped to work underwater, ect.

I say it’ll be the 3rd expac from now. (4th expac in total)

or they could just ignore it forever … Primordius, Jormag, Kralkatorik, then head off to Elona for Palawa Joko then maybe Cantha. Now you might be wondering “how do we get to without crossing the water and how can you ignore bubbles if you are crossing the water?” and the answer is “take the same path as the dredges”. If that path is take then it can go from Primordius → Cantha

Shylock.4653:

Mea.5491:

I even crafted Ascended breather and underwater weapons just for map completion.

Why you needed “Ascended breather and underwater weapons” for map completion?

I didn’t NEED it but map completion is the only thing with significant amount of underwater combat plus I was sitting on thousands of gold so I was like “why not?”

I just still don’t see why the Inquest can use their flamethrowers underwater and why anyone else can’t figure out Thermite. :/

Wow, I didn’t expect to get this many responses. Thanks all!

Now, to all the self-satisfied Revs saying:
"Oh, well, just use Impossible Odds and Skill 2!"
*puts hands to face and blows into them to make farting sound*

Yes, thank you, we all know how to spam. The challenge isn’t making the combat easier, it’s making it more engaging. In a game that presents itself as liberal to the ideas of Class roles and making builds, everyone needing to rely on two skills in order to suffer-through neglected content seems backwards.

Despite being in the state it is, Guild Wars 2 still got the best underwater combat in any MMO.

Still, I quite enjoy it. Being underwater can be rather scenic in its own way, and of course it lets you move up and down, left or right, forward and backwards.

I think underwater combat can become just fine if they took a quick look over the skills, tweak them some, increase the damage. Would be even more crazy if you received a single trait line that you will always have equipped (won’t interfere with the other trait lines) that give you a choice of underwater specific traits, boosting some skills or adding something else to just the underwater area.

Underwater mastery could be fun too, and I can imagine it coming in the future.

+1 for thread title.

The main problem with underwater combat is that it would require a vastly different positional system. For those that dont know what I mean, compare how you move around on land to how you move around on flight-type games (like Ace Combat for example). GW2 you have full movement in 2 axis while extremely limited in the 3rd. Meanwhile, other games in the category I mentioned have complete movement in all three. GW2’s movement for characters is horizontal, not relative to your viewpoint, while character orientation is mainly vertical (just as hobotron insists on). Other games have your movement, as well as orientation, relative to your viewpoint.

Aidan Savage.2078:

The main problem with underwater combat is that it would require a vastly different positional system. For those that dont know what I mean, compare how you move around on land to how you move around on flight-type games (like Ace Combat for example). GW2 you have full movement in 2 axis while extremely limited in the 3rd. Meanwhile, other games in the category I mentioned have complete movement in all three. GW2’s movement for characters is horizontal, not relative to your viewpoint, while character orientation is mainly vertical (just as hobotron insists on). Other games have your movement, as well as orientation, relative to your viewpoint.

I actually heard that argument quite a lot concerning GW2 underwater combat, though I never really understood it. I admit, I played a lot of flight sims in the past so I guess I’m a bit more used to keep orientation in a full 3D environment no matter of the viewpoint, but after all it’s just a matter of practicing.
What really needs to get fixed, is the horrible hit boxes, esp. of larger enemies. Having a big mean hard hitting shark being displayed to the left while his hitbox (and thus the source of danger) is to the right can be quite deadly.

Aidan Savage.2078:

The main problem with underwater combat is that it would require a vastly different positional system. For those that dont know what I mean, compare how you move around on land to how you move around on flight-type games (like Ace Combat for example). GW2 you have full movement in 2 axis while extremely limited in the 3rd. Meanwhile, other games in the category I mentioned have complete movement in all three. GW2’s movement for characters is horizontal, not relative to your viewpoint, while character orientation is mainly vertical (just as hobotron insists on). Other games have your movement, as well as orientation, relative to your viewpoint.

I can’t agree with your conclusion that the positional system is the worst issue with underwater combat, although making that change would certain make for an enjoyable experience.

Submariner combat in this game has always suffered from being a mode different enough from ordinary PvE (or WvW or PvP) that it requires different skills and weapons. However, ANet never completely balanced those skills (or weapons) within professions or across them. Some professions have multiple underwater elites; some don’t. Some have entire playstyles that are crippled underwater, making the terrestrial build useless and yet we’re stuck with the same traits.

Despite the limitations, I still like underwater combat in this game.

My tl;dr: underwater combat has never really been completely alive in the water; ANet’s just finally admitted that they aren’t going to address it anytime soon.

Farzo.8410:

…
Still, I quite enjoy it. Being underwater can be rather scenic in its own way, and of course it lets you move up and down, left or right, forward and backwards.
…

I agree, I love underwater exploration in GW2.

Zero Day.2594:

Let them first sort things out on land and then maybe move onto aquatic based combat.

And how many more years do we expect that to take exactly…….?

You guys remember that old pvp map with underwater combat with the Sharks?
Loved using my warriors spear 5 .. Mmmmm blended up sharks

Underwater combat sucks in any game. It’s just a rubbish environment in which to fight.
(Excellent thread title btw…)