Guild Wars 2

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

So… when exactly does “Start Having End-Game Features” start overidding “Being Able to Play With Friends and/or Guild”?

It’s changing the game, that’s what it has to do with it. You asked the question, I answered. This is how the conversation went.

I play this game and like it, without a traditional end game. Traditional end games tend to make the community more competive rather than cooperative. I wanted a cooperative non-competitive PvE experience to enjoy with friends. This game offers that.

Traditional end games creates haves and have nots. That’s not what the devs are trying to do here. You suggest that many of the things I like would be better in single player games and you’re right about that. But you’re leaving out the social aspect.

People have come on these forums asking for things like dueling, dps meters, gear check, all the things that come with the end game you want. And every time someone posts for stuff like this, there’s a bunch of people who shout it down. Not one or two. A bunch of people. Why?

Because those things ruin the type of game we want to play. Adding the types of things you’re asking for will inevitably lead to the kind of game I don’t want to play.

And because there are dozens of games made for you and only one game (so far) made for us, it would be nice if it remained a game for us.

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

Actually, it’s very easy to guess that you might see a lot of people posting heavily for end game. That’s because the people I describe don’t necessarily visit forums. They’re around in huge proliferation in every MMO but they don’t talk on forums.

I have almost 200 people in my guild and maybe three of us post of forums…but just about all of us play the way that I play. They left the forums because they feel it’s a toxic atmosphere that brings them down. Doesn’t mean they’re not there.

And it’s pretty well known that only a small percentage of people ever play the hardest content. Lotro stopped adding raids in their game for that reason.

One of the WoW devs said only 5% of the people in the game cleared the hardest content.

That would mean 95% didn’t.

Godzzila.3752:

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

And i’ve read similiar things often also for games like EQ2 or WoW.

Beldin.5498:

Godzzila.3752:

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

And i’ve read similiar things often also for games like EQ2 or WoW.

Thank you so much for posting this. I’ve been saying this very thing to people for a very long time. It’s nice to see a dev say it.

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Godzzila.3752:

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

And i’ve read similiar things often also for games like EQ2 or WoW.

Thank you so much for posting this. I’ve been saying this very thing to people for a very long time. It’s nice to see a dev say it.

Funny thing was when i read a little about that in the Lotro forums i again still had
the feeling that 95% of the players were kittened of by that decision

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

So… when exactly does “Start Having End-Game Features” start overidding “Being Able to Play With Friends and/or Guild”?

It’s changing the game, that’s what it has to do with it. You asked the question, I answered. This is how the conversation went.

I play this game and like it, without a traditional end game. Traditional end games tend to make the community more competive rather than cooperative. I wanted a cooperative non-competitive PvE experience to enjoy with friends. This game offers that.

Traditional end games creates haves and have nots. That’s not what the devs are trying to do here. You suggest that many of the things I like would be better in single player games and you’re right about that. But you’re leaving out the social aspect.

People have come on these forums asking for things like dueling, dps meters, gear check, all the things that come with the end game you want. And every time someone posts for stuff like this, there’s a bunch of people who shout it down. Not one or two. A bunch of people. Why?

Because those things ruin the type of game we want to play. Adding the types of things you’re asking for will inevitably lead to the kind of game I don’t want to play.

And because there are dozens of games made for you and only one game (so far) made for us, it would be nice if it remained a game for us.

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

Actually, it’s very easy to guess that you might see a lot of people posting heavily for end game. That’s because the people I describe don’t necessarily visit forums. They’re around in huge proliferation in every MMO but they don’t talk on forums.

I have almost 200 people in my guild and maybe three of us post of forums…but just about all of us play the way that I play. They left the forums because they feel it’s a toxic atmosphere that brings them down. Doesn’t mean they’re not there.

And it’s pretty well known that only a small percentage of people ever play the hardest content. Lotro stopped adding raids in their game for that reason.

One of the WoW devs said only 5% of the people in the game cleared the hardest content.

That would mean 95% didn’t.

Oh sure, let’s speak about people that figurativly exist and have a figurative opinion… Why do you think that not a lot more people post about no end-game features? Maybe because they stopped playing the game around the 12th day of sitting around doing nothing? I can Imagine their oppinion is also the same as mine so Im going to figurativly summon their possible opinion to this topic.

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

So… when exactly does “Start Having End-Game Features” start overidding “Being Able to Play With Friends and/or Guild”?

It’s changing the game, that’s what it has to do with it. You asked the question, I answered. This is how the conversation went.

I play this game and like it, without a traditional end game. Traditional end games tend to make the community more competive rather than cooperative. I wanted a cooperative non-competitive PvE experience to enjoy with friends. This game offers that.

Traditional end games creates haves and have nots. That’s not what the devs are trying to do here. You suggest that many of the things I like would be better in single player games and you’re right about that. But you’re leaving out the social aspect.

People have come on these forums asking for things like dueling, dps meters, gear check, all the things that come with the end game you want. And every time someone posts for stuff like this, there’s a bunch of people who shout it down. Not one or two. A bunch of people. Why?

Because those things ruin the type of game we want to play. Adding the types of things you’re asking for will inevitably lead to the kind of game I don’t want to play.

And because there are dozens of games made for you and only one game (so far) made for us, it would be nice if it remained a game for us.

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

Actually, it’s very easy to guess that you might see a lot of people posting heavily for end game. That’s because the people I describe don’t necessarily visit forums. They’re around in huge proliferation in every MMO but they don’t talk on forums.

I have almost 200 people in my guild and maybe three of us post of forums…but just about all of us play the way that I play. They left the forums because they feel it’s a toxic atmosphere that brings them down. Doesn’t mean they’re not there.

And it’s pretty well known that only a small percentage of people ever play the hardest content. Lotro stopped adding raids in their game for that reason.

One of the WoW devs said only 5% of the people in the game cleared the hardest content.

That would mean 95% didn’t.

Oh sure, let’s speak about people that figurativly exist and have a figurative opinion… Why do you think that not a lot more people post about no end-game features? Maybe because they stopped playing the game around the 12th day of sitting around doing nothing? I can Imagine their oppinion is also the same as mine so Im going to figurativly summon their possible opinion to this topic.

Read this: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

Then come talk to me.

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

So… when exactly does “Start Having End-Game Features” start overidding “Being Able to Play With Friends and/or Guild”?

It’s changing the game, that’s what it has to do with it. You asked the question, I answered. This is how the conversation went.

I play this game and like it, without a traditional end game. Traditional end games tend to make the community more competive rather than cooperative. I wanted a cooperative non-competitive PvE experience to enjoy with friends. This game offers that.

Traditional end games creates haves and have nots. That’s not what the devs are trying to do here. You suggest that many of the things I like would be better in single player games and you’re right about that. But you’re leaving out the social aspect.

People have come on these forums asking for things like dueling, dps meters, gear check, all the things that come with the end game you want. And every time someone posts for stuff like this, there’s a bunch of people who shout it down. Not one or two. A bunch of people. Why?

Because those things ruin the type of game we want to play. Adding the types of things you’re asking for will inevitably lead to the kind of game I don’t want to play.

And because there are dozens of games made for you and only one game (so far) made for us, it would be nice if it remained a game for us.

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

Actually, it’s very easy to guess that you might see a lot of people posting heavily for end game. That’s because the people I describe don’t necessarily visit forums. They’re around in huge proliferation in every MMO but they don’t talk on forums.

I have almost 200 people in my guild and maybe three of us post of forums…but just about all of us play the way that I play. They left the forums because they feel it’s a toxic atmosphere that brings them down. Doesn’t mean they’re not there.

And it’s pretty well known that only a small percentage of people ever play the hardest content. Lotro stopped adding raids in their game for that reason.

One of the WoW devs said only 5% of the people in the game cleared the hardest content.

That would mean 95% didn’t.

Oh sure, let’s speak about people that figurativly exist and have a figurative opinion… Why do you think that not a lot more people post about no end-game features? Maybe because they stopped playing the game around the 12th day of sitting around doing nothing? I can Imagine their oppinion is also the same as mine so Im going to figurativly summon their possible opinion to this topic.

Read this: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

Then come talk to me.

Oh yeah! LotrO! That game that was such a huge success that later came to be Free to Play!
And the point of the hardest content is NOT to be beaten by everyone, is to give everyone something to achieve, something to pursue to maybe one day be able to do that. That’s the point of being hard, if it was easy, everybody would do that.

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

Casuals are a REALLY small portion of gamers.
Also WoW prooves you wrong, it had the greatest online community any game ever had and even though its not at its peak anymore, it’s still pretty high.

What about this :
http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/207s81/023_of_players_defeated_heroic_garrosh_after_four/

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1185107-How-many-WoW-players-actually-raid
or simply look a little here :
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=wow+percentage+of+raiders

Not sure at what point anybody said that the endgame had to be kittenhard or that it had to be unreachable for most of the players, but sure.
Challenging =/= Annoyingly Hard.

Oh yeah, and btw: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2614-Dragon-Soul-and-Firelands-Statistics-Blue-Posts-Poll

“Keep in mind this sample includes many alt characters and many players have multiple characters, so there is no way to know for sure if more people are raiding. However, we do know that more characters are raiding now than raided during Firelands. "

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

I’m not even going to argue, especially with you Vayne.
If the game is built around ABC far more than D then using the basic math and logic it is obvious that ABC will get played more.
Now flip that around.

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

So… when exactly does “Start Having End-Game Features” start overidding “Being Able to Play With Friends and/or Guild”?

It’s changing the game, that’s what it has to do with it. You asked the question, I answered. This is how the conversation went.

I play this game and like it, without a traditional end game. Traditional end games tend to make the community more competive rather than cooperative. I wanted a cooperative non-competitive PvE experience to enjoy with friends. This game offers that.

Traditional end games creates haves and have nots. That’s not what the devs are trying to do here. You suggest that many of the things I like would be better in single player games and you’re right about that. But you’re leaving out the social aspect.

People have come on these forums asking for things like dueling, dps meters, gear check, all the things that come with the end game you want. And every time someone posts for stuff like this, there’s a bunch of people who shout it down. Not one or two. A bunch of people. Why?

Because those things ruin the type of game we want to play. Adding the types of things you’re asking for will inevitably lead to the kind of game I don’t want to play.

And because there are dozens of games made for you and only one game (so far) made for us, it would be nice if it remained a game for us.

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

In general, people who are happy with the game,..are playing the game, and not spending time checking forums.
You will get less replies from those who are happy with the game.

Thankfully anet has an idea of what most of their players like, and seem to balance things around the majority.
Alot of people who choose GW2 as a game, do so for the 2 week update. Because it’s fresh and new. You don’t have to play the same mmo every day, advantage of no sub fee.
I like GW2 just as it is. I do teq, rarely because of the crappy time it’s at now. and I almost never do wurm, because it requires more organisation than I bother with. I think, this is the case of the majority of GW2 players, who don’t want to sit around waiting to have fun.
This is where Dry Top, excels, it requires organisation for tier 5, but you can still have fun and take part in lower tiers. There’s pretty much always something going, even though it’s on a timer, means there’s no waiting to have fun.
Seeing how busy Dry Top has been, I think this is what most players are looking for.

(oh, this was a reply to the guy who made a comment about teq, more than you.)

Some progression features, btw, DO change endgame, gear progression that locks you out of certain content, changes endgame.
Skill progression that isn’t balance well, will change endgame for everyone.

To me, endgame, is pvp/wvw/fractals/ascended/ledgendary/collecting skins/collecting Mini’s/LS/achievements/RP … and just doing what I find fun.
e.g BLTC key farming, exploring, Living Story, Leveling, dungeons, changing character look, making gold by playing the tp or crafting, mining,

Basically EVERYTHING in this game, is end game.

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

Casuals are a REALLY small portion of gamers.
Also WoW prooves you wrong, it had the greatest online community any game ever had and even though its not at its peak anymore, it’s still pretty high.

WoW proves nothing. Ghostcrawler has made quotes about WOW raiding that matches what the Lotro guy said. I don’t care if you except it or not, but this stuff has been discussed for years. The only people who think raiders are a majority are raiders.

Do you know why most games get “dumbed down” and made more casual. Because there are more casual players than hard core players.

@OP
Dungeons (all path completition), Fractals, WvW, world exploration, PvP, world bosses (like tequatl and now the evolved jungle wurm) and, of course the endless living story aren’t enough to call them “end game”… well change game then? I’m not a developer and i can’t create content for you as everyone here, i’m sorry.

Nick.6972:

I’m not even going to argue, especially with you Vayne.
If the game is built around ABC far more than D then using the basic math and logic it is obvious that ABC will get played more.
Now flip that around.

Easy to flip. If more peo ple played D, than the game wouldn’t be made for A,B,C.

Logically devs want to reach the most amount of players, because it makes them the most money.

Now, you had EQ which never had the popularity of WoW. But many EQ players complained that WoW was just a dumbed down version of EQ. And then people who played Vanilla WoW kept complaining about how it got dumbed down. And Guild Wars 1 players are complaining about how Guild Wars 2 is dumbed down.

There’s a reason why all these games shift to casual over time. It’s because hard core players are in shorter supply.

Rift started out as a raiding game and raids were centric to the game. And people left that game in droves. So much so that Scott Hartman came on the Rift forums to apologize to all the ignored people who were leaving and they came out with some stupid instances that weren’t very good as a stop gap measure.

They don’t dumb down games because people want harder content. They don’t make games easier because people want challenge.

If you were a business would you make more content for a smaller demographic or a larger one?

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

Casuals are a REALLY small portion of gamers.
Also WoW prooves you wrong, it had the greatest online community any game ever had and even though its not at its peak anymore, it’s still pretty high.

WoW proves nothing. Ghostcrawler has made quotes about WOW raiding that matches what the Lotro guy said. I don’t care if you except it or not, but this stuff has been discussed for years. The only people who think raiders are a majority are raiders.

Do you know why most games get “dumbed down” and made more casual. Because there are more casual players than hard core players.

Games get “dumbed down”? Not even close to reality! IN fact games that are REALLY hard (like Super Meat Boy, Don’t Starve, DARK SOULS) keep appearing more and more. There’s a reason for that: Challenge.

I don’t need more ‘end-game’, whatever that is, as it seems to be something different for everyone. I enjoy the Living Story type of content, mostly, and it’s delivery cadence.

But, if some people want some uber-difficult dungeons added, it’s fine with me. Anything that stops all this ….

It’s too bad one has to wade through so much, just to get some information, etc.

As to the Title, I’m sure the Devs are working on ‘end-game’, as (for me) any new content added is something I do (usually) with my Level 80 characters.

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

Casuals are a REALLY small portion of gamers.
Also WoW prooves you wrong, it had the greatest online community any game ever had and even though its not at its peak anymore, it’s still pretty high.

WoW proves nothing. Ghostcrawler has made quotes about WOW raiding that matches what the Lotro guy said. I don’t care if you except it or not, but this stuff has been discussed for years. The only people who think raiders are a majority are raiders.

Do you know why most games get “dumbed down” and made more casual. Because there are more casual players than hard core players.

Games get “dumbed down”? Not even close to reality! IN fact games that are REALLY hard (like Super Meat Boy, Don’t Starve, DARK SOULS) keep appearing more and more. There’s a reason for that: Challenge.

Guild Wars 2 (according to most Guild Wars 1 players) is dumbed down. Argue with them. It’s simplified. Less build options etc. There have been many threads about it.

I don’t know anyone that thinks WoW is more complicated or tough than EQ. The raid finder raids in WOW are very simple raids. They come out with hard stuff and it keeps getting nerfed in game after game. Argue if you want. Most people who’ve been around know it’s true.

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

Casuals are a REALLY small portion of gamers.
Also WoW prooves you wrong, it had the greatest online community any game ever had and even though its not at its peak anymore, it’s still pretty high.

WoW proves nothing. Ghostcrawler has made quotes about WOW raiding that matches what the Lotro guy said. I don’t care if you except it or not, but this stuff has been discussed for years. The only people who think raiders are a majority are raiders.

Do you know why most games get “dumbed down” and made more casual. Because there are more casual players than hard core players.

Games get “dumbed down”? Not even close to reality! IN fact games that are REALLY hard (like Super Meat Boy, Don’t Starve, DARK SOULS) keep appearing more and more. There’s a reason for that: Challenge.

Guild Wars 2 (according to most Guild Wars 1 players) is dumbed down. Argue with them. It’s simplified. Less build options etc. There have been many threads about it.

I don’t know anyone that thinks WoW is more complicated or tough than EQ. The raid finder raids in WOW are very simple raids. They come out with hard stuff and it keeps getting nerfed in game after game. Argue if you want. Most people who’ve been around know it’s true.

And that’s why that discussion even started: Guild Wars 2 was “dumbed down” and since when is Guild Wars 2 a good example anyway? The game was the quickest sold game of all time in pre-release sales, and quickly a lot of players started running away from it.

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

Casuals are a REALLY small portion of gamers.
Also WoW prooves you wrong, it had the greatest online community any game ever had and even though its not at its peak anymore, it’s still pretty high.

WoW proves nothing. Ghostcrawler has made quotes about WOW raiding that matches what the Lotro guy said. I don’t care if you except it or not, but this stuff has been discussed for years. The only people who think raiders are a majority are raiders.

Do you know why most games get “dumbed down” and made more casual. Because there are more casual players than hard core players.

Games get “dumbed down”? Not even close to reality! IN fact games that are REALLY hard (like Super Meat Boy, Don’t Starve, DARK SOULS) keep appearing more and more. There’s a reason for that: Challenge.

Guild Wars 2 (according to most Guild Wars 1 players) is dumbed down. Argue with them. It’s simplified. Less build options etc. There have been many threads about it.

I don’t know anyone that thinks WoW is more complicated or tough than EQ. The raid finder raids in WOW are very simple raids. They come out with hard stuff and it keeps getting nerfed in game after game. Argue if you want. Most people who’ve been around know it’s true.

And that’s why that discussion even started: Guild Wars 2 was “dumbed down” and since when is Guild Wars 2 a good example anyway? The game was the quickest sold game of all time in pre-release sales, and quickly a lot of players started running away from it.

Based on what exactly? Your word?

Look believe what you want. I’m out of here.

Most people don’t do the hardest content in most games, and if you don’t want to believe it that’s absolutely okay with me.

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

Casuals are a REALLY small portion of gamers.
Also WoW prooves you wrong, it had the greatest online community any game ever had and even though its not at its peak anymore, it’s still pretty high.

WoW proves nothing. Ghostcrawler has made quotes about WOW raiding that matches what the Lotro guy said. I don’t care if you except it or not, but this stuff has been discussed for years. The only people who think raiders are a majority are raiders.

Do you know why most games get “dumbed down” and made more casual. Because there are more casual players than hard core players.

Games get “dumbed down”? Not even close to reality! IN fact games that are REALLY hard (like Super Meat Boy, Don’t Starve, DARK SOULS) keep appearing more and more. There’s a reason for that: Challenge.

Guild Wars 2 (according to most Guild Wars 1 players) is dumbed down. Argue with them. It’s simplified. Less build options etc. There have been many threads about it.

I don’t know anyone that thinks WoW is more complicated or tough than EQ. The raid finder raids in WOW are very simple raids. They come out with hard stuff and it keeps getting nerfed in game after game. Argue if you want. Most people who’ve been around know it’s true.

And that’s why that discussion even started: Guild Wars 2 was “dumbed down” and since when is Guild Wars 2 a good example anyway? The game was the quickest sold game of all time in pre-release sales, and quickly a lot of players started running away from it.

Based on what exactly? Your word?

Look believe what you want. I’m out of here.

Most people don’t do the hardest content in most games, and if you don’t want to believe it that’s absolutely okay with me.

Based on what?
Megaservers. Do you think they were created because the servers where all so full?

For me (!) the endgame problem would be solved very simple:

1. Make all items accountbound

2. Every month you can craft/exchange special items for new traits/skins and unique other items (like bufffood with one month duration or parts of ascended gear)

3. Some special items can be grinded in certain: maps, quests, activities, events

4. For me (!), all problems would be solved forever

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

i dont think fractals are a bad dungeon by far, but i do agree that you have to do it like 20 times before it actually gets new. It probably has too many gradations and not enough qualitative changes until you get to instabilities.

if they were going to reset people anyway, they should have changed the structure of difficulty selection, and new options, they will continue to have the same problems when they add to fractals with the current design.

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

Sounds familiar to every other MMO, where you have to play the dungeon over and over and over again to get gear …………………………..

Neurochazm.5370:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

Fractals are probably one of the worse dungeon instances out there (from every MMO).

Neurochazm.5370:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

endgame is not by definition repeating content. Its just goals and progression that occurs when you have reached the end of the normal progression

Godzzila.3752:

Neurochazm.5370:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

Fractals are probably one of the worse dungeon instances out there (from every MMO).

I quite enjoy fractals, tyvm. I love how they’re set up I love that you can experience them in easier, or grind to play, difficulties.
I love that bad players generally don’t play higher level fractals.

Anet u know what u want , we need somethin new to do, for start i love the idea for new dailys like do worldbosses, do specific dungeons, its good for ppl helps each other, open new maps and new dungeons,

i think the achievements not work at all, make ppl do more achieves just to work on somethin , because some ppl dont have much achieves and its restricted in a lot of dungeons .

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

High lvl fracs is about the only thing I do with my group of guildies… its pretty kitten easy when you are with a group who knows what they are doing.done plenty of em, the only reason we continue to do them is because of fractal skins.. they aren’t hard at all, and yes, all of us run em in ascended zerk gear… why bother with any other type of gear in PvE?

Soloing a dung? why on earth do I want to waste time doing that? This is an MMO, if I want to solo, I play single player games lol. People play MMOs to do fun and challenging content with their group of friends…I would be bored to death if I’m soloing a freaking dung. Dungs also have pathetic rewards lol.

I find it funny to read that almost everyone who says they like ‘endgame’ what it is now, think that the endgame we(the posters who think the endgame is lacking atm) all mean is endgame that has to be super hard.

The ‘end-game’, we mean(the posters who think the endgame is lacking atm) , is things to do that should be chalenging(CHALLENGING, not super-duper hard) and has some kind of progression for you. Ascended=no progression. Legendary=no progression. As stated before, you can complete everything there is to do at the current ‘end-game’ with armor you can buy fairly easy right at the moment you hit level 80.

See it like this: A as the casuals, B as the no-lifers. I think the majority of players is inbetween those. They are not casuals, they like some kind of challenge, don’t mind some practice before they can actually complete something, but they don’t want to sit around for an hour to complete a super duper hard raid. A
At the current state, everything is for group A. It’s easy to understand they don’t make things for group B, but what about us inbetweeners. And I think thats what OP is asking for and together with him, me, also alot more.

It shouldn’t be as it is now(no progression at all, no rewarding things, nothing at all), but keep in mind we are not asking for scenario B that you have to be a no-lifer to even play the end-game.

SkiTz.4590:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

High lvl fracs is about the only thing I do with my group of guildies… its pretty kitten easy when you are with a group who knows what they are doing.done plenty of em, the only reason we continue to do them is because of fractal skins.. they aren’t hard at all, and yes, all of us run em in ascended zerk gear… why bother with any other type of gear in PvE?

Soloing a dung? why on earth do I want to waste time doing that? This is an MMO, if I want to solo, I play single player games lol. People play MMOs to do fun and challenging content with their group of friends…I would be bored to death if I’m soloing a freaking dung. Dungs also have pathetic rewards lol.

Then pug them, for the extra challenge. Those questions were for Godzella anyway.

If you solo arah, you can sell the spots for pretty decent “reward”.

However you’ve totally ignored the point of my questions.
How MANY people actually do it?
How many people actually want challenging content?
and How long does it stay challenging for the hardcore player?

No company can produce content quick enough for hardcore players, and tbh, it’s not worth it to them, to try. As you’re a minority.

I just can’t stop thinking why they’re not recreating something similar to UW or FoW in GW2. Those instances would probably be even better in GW2 without tanking or healers. Imagine Aatxes hitting you for 6000.

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

High lvl fracs is about the only thing I do with my group of guildies… its pretty kitten easy when you are with a group who knows what they are doing.done plenty of em, the only reason we continue to do them is because of fractal skins.. they aren’t hard at all, and yes, all of us run em in ascended zerk gear… why bother with any other type of gear in PvE?

Soloing a dung? why on earth do I want to waste time doing that? This is an MMO, if I want to solo, I play single player games lol. People play MMOs to do fun and challenging content with their group of friends…I would be bored to death if I’m soloing a freaking dung. Dungs also have pathetic rewards lol.

Then pug them, for the extra challenge. Those questions were for Godzella anyway.

If you solo arah, you can sell the spots for pretty decent “reward”.

However you’ve totally ignored the point of my questions.
How MANY people actually do it?
How many people actually want challenging content?
and How long does it stay challenging for the hardcore player?

No company can produce content quick enough for hardcore players, and tbh, it’s not worth it to them, to try. As you’re a minority.

This game as about 15~20% of its original playerbase. Yeah, I guess we are a minority :P

Godzzila.3752:

Fractals are probably one of the worse dungeon instances out there (from every MMO).

Feel free to give examples of your own.

I played vanilla WoW when endgame consisted of raiding Molten Core over and over and OVER AND OVER again.

But then when Blizzard does it, people think it’s ambrosia.

GW2 needs improvement. But let’s not pretend other games have dealt with it better.

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

High lvl fracs is about the only thing I do with my group of guildies… its pretty kitten easy when you are with a group who knows what they are doing.done plenty of em, the only reason we continue to do them is because of fractal skins.. they aren’t hard at all, and yes, all of us run em in ascended zerk gear… why bother with any other type of gear in PvE?

Soloing a dung? why on earth do I want to waste time doing that? This is an MMO, if I want to solo, I play single player games lol. People play MMOs to do fun and challenging content with their group of friends…I would be bored to death if I’m soloing a freaking dung. Dungs also have pathetic rewards lol.

Then pug them, for the extra challenge. Those questions were for Godzella anyway.

If you solo arah, you can sell the spots for pretty decent “reward”.

However you’ve totally ignored the point of my questions.
How MANY people actually do it?
How many people actually want challenging content?
and How long does it stay challenging for the hardcore player?

No company can produce content quick enough for hardcore players, and tbh, it’s not worth it to them, to try. As you’re a minority.

This game as about 15~20% of its original playerbase. Yeah, I guess we are a minority :P

Numbers off the top of your head? links for proof please.

Someone posted links above of various mmo’s that pointed out their hardcore players were a minority. A very tiny minority. You don’t have to like it, .. but if companies themselves are pointing out you’re a minority, it might be time you accept it.

btw, I noticed you compared an mmo to games like Dark Souls, a single player game.

If you want to look at things from that end. There are more casual games, with a total of FAR higher sold numbers, than your hardcore games

Also, if you could, please answer my questions. because you obviously think it’d be the best thing for anet and the gaming community to work on more hardcore instances. (that almost nobody plays, and those that do, complain they are easy..which duh, anything you learn/do enough times becomes easy. )

phys.7689:

endgame is not by definition repeating content. Its just goals and progression that occurs when you have reached the end of the normal progression

Not de jure maybe, but de facto, repetition is a staple of endgame content.

Taygus.4571:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

High lvl fracs is about the only thing I do with my group of guildies… its pretty kitten easy when you are with a group who knows what they are doing.done plenty of em, the only reason we continue to do them is because of fractal skins.. they aren’t hard at all, and yes, all of us run em in ascended zerk gear… why bother with any other type of gear in PvE?

Soloing a dung? why on earth do I want to waste time doing that? This is an MMO, if I want to solo, I play single player games lol. People play MMOs to do fun and challenging content with their group of friends…I would be bored to death if I’m soloing a freaking dung. Dungs also have pathetic rewards lol.

Then pug them, for the extra challenge. Those questions were for Godzella anyway.

If you solo arah, you can sell the spots for pretty decent “reward”.

However you’ve totally ignored the point of my questions.
How MANY people actually do it?
How many people actually want challenging content?
and How long does it stay challenging for the hardcore player?

No company can produce content quick enough for hardcore players, and tbh, it’s not worth it to them, to try. As you’re a minority.

This game as about 15~20% of its original playerbase. Yeah, I guess we are a minority :P

Numbers off the top of your head? links for proof please.

Someone posted links above of various mmo’s that pointed out their hardcore players were a minority. A very tiny minority. You don’t have to like it, .. but if companies themselves are pointing out you’re a minority, it might be time you accepted.

btw, I noticed you compared an mmo to games like Dark Souls, a single player game.

If you want to look at things that end. There are more casual games, with a total of FAR higher sold numbers, than your hardcore games

Point number one: I Didn’t Compare This Game to Dark Souls – I said that games being more and more casual is NOT TRUE and used Dark Souls as an example.

Number two:
xFire makes statistics for games of the people that use their application. As of the release date the game used to have peaks of 16ks players (people that use xFire), as of right now it tends to peak with 2ks of players when a new patch is released while most of the time it sits at 500~1k.
http://social.xfire.com/games/gw2
Also, as of the release date of the game:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L42n7YnkFwY/UG0QkxAOmuI/AAAAAAAAAYo/d9hpl81D9xA/s1600/google_trends_combined_wow_and_pandaria.png

Godzzila.3752:

Neurochazm.5370:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

Fractals are probably one of the worse dungeon instances out there (from every MMO).

well, now your just in the land of personal opinion. If you dont like fractals, what makes you think you would like any dungeons they ever make?

phys.7689:

Godzzila.3752:

Neurochazm.5370:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

Fractals are probably one of the worse dungeon instances out there (from every MMO).

well, now your just in the land of personal opinion. If you dont like fractals, what makes you think you would like any dungeons they ever make?

CoF, Ascalonian Catacombs are pretty good

Godzzila.3752:

phys.7689:

Godzzila.3752:

Neurochazm.5370:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

Fractals are probably one of the worse dungeon instances out there (from every MMO).

well, now your just in the land of personal opinion. If you dont like fractals, what makes you think you would like any dungeons they ever make?

CoF, Ascalonian Catacombs are pretty good

LOL, picks the easiest dungeons in game. LOL,

(and I pointed out about Dark Souls, that there are more casual games, than hardcore games. Tell me, why is that? )

Taygus.4571:

Godzzila.3752:

phys.7689:

Godzzila.3752:

Neurochazm.5370:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

Fractals are probably one of the worse dungeon instances out there (from every MMO).

well, now your just in the land of personal opinion. If you dont like fractals, what makes you think you would like any dungeons they ever make?

CoF, Ascalonian Catacombs are pretty good

LOL, picks the easiest dungeons in game. LOL,

(and I pointed out about Dark Souls, that there are more casual games, than hardcore games. Tell me, why is that? )

Are you actually implying that there is any hard dungeon in this game?
And that’s not true. And still I don’t know who keeps thinking that endgame = hardcore but sure.
The games making more success atm are the ones that are challenging and with high replay value.

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

Godzzila.3752:

phys.7689:

Godzzila.3752:

Neurochazm.5370:

Godzzila.3752:

Taygus.4571:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Compare the open world content to high level Fractals.
Which gets more frequent updates and new content.
Now. Which gets played more often? Which one doesn’t because of the lack of updates and repetitiveness?

FOTM alone is makes less than 1% of the whole the available PvE content hence gets played far less.

And I’ve never heard of Lord Of The Rings online.
Provide the same info with Wildstar.

It’s been provided for Guild Wars 1 and WoW. Can’t give you info on Wildstar, but I’d bet that if the game doesn’t attract and hold casuals the game will end up with a very small player base.

Do you guys not listen to what devs have said from different games over the years?

You think GW2 has a massive player base? (not including china) I would be shocked if theres even close to 50k concurrent players at peak times in EU+NA

Regardless, the point I think is that there is MORE THAN ENOUGH casual content in this game already.
What on earth could possibly drive away more players than it already has to add just something remotely challenging content or revamp dungs to add a harder mode with better rewards? even if everyone can’t do it, its something to progress towards. compared to other terrible forms of progression this game has.

Right..
how often id lv50 fractals completed?
Do you play lv50 fracs? in zerk ascended gear?

How often does arah get completed? (can you solo arah? )
or TA aetherblade path?

The majority of the community don’t want to even aim to be able to complete them.

And most importantly, for the hardcore players, how long do these dungeons stay challenging?

Really? You are using Fractals lv50 as if it was EVEN close to a good dungeon! For you to even get to level 50 you have to play the same fracts over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over! With the same boring-kitten mechanics and same scenarios OVER AND OVER again. People don’t play lv50 fracs not because they are too hard to do, but because nobody feels like grinding the same scenarios over and over again just so that later they can do the same scenario but slightly harder.

How is that not Endgame??
Endgame is by definition repeating the same dungeon every week until you have the gear to progress to the next level.
Just because Fractals don’t match YOUR idea of endgame, does not mean it isn’t Anet’s idea of endgame.

If you don’t like it then their are a plethora of other games that offer conventional endgame.

Fractals are probably one of the worse dungeon instances out there (from every MMO).

well, now your just in the land of personal opinion. If you dont like fractals, what makes you think you would like any dungeons they ever make?

CoF, Ascalonian Catacombs are pretty good

LOL, picks the easiest dungeons in game. LOL,

(and I pointed out about Dark Souls, that there are more casual games, than hardcore games. Tell me, why is that? )

Are you actually implying that there is any hard dungeon in this game?
And that’s not true. And still I don’t know who keeps thinking that endgame = hardcore but sure.
The games making more success atm are the ones that are challenging and with high replay value.

You’re the one who keeps pointing out hardcore endgame. Not I. I pointed out how everything in this game IS endgame to me.

Secondly, there are challenging dungeons, if there weren’t pugging for them would be easy.
The first time some of dungeons were done, were quite difficult, as you get to know them, they become easier, which proves my point, made in comments above.

All the same, you picked the 2 dungeons, just about everyone does, because they are easy and quick..and yet you want challenging content?

Anyway, it’s clear from your posts, even you don’t really know what you want, so I’m leaving this discussion. Hope you find a game that has the endgame you want.

While Im happy with the current state of the game and am still enjoying myself after playing almost non stop since betas, I do agree that more could be done at end game to spice up the game and add longevity.

First, I like that endgame isnt about gear or rewards beyond cosmetics. I hope they never change that. With that in mind, I think end game comes down to two elements – gameplay and character progression.

The mechanics for both of these are already in place, but need to be improved. Keep in mind that this is related to PVE. I think PVP deserves the same level of attention, but should be treated separately.

For game play, I think the living story can fill this role, as long as they do not get fixated on any single element. In the span of every 2-3 months, we need something for every type of player – a new world boss, new zones, new jumping puzzles, new dynamic events, NEW DUNGEONS/FRACTALS, new crafting, new minigames and new storylines. For some of these areas, there should be three tiers of OPTIONAL achievements – for laid back, typical and hardcore players respectively. These achievements need to reflect the effort put into them and give players looking for a greater achievement something almost impossible to strive for (some of the achievements associated with the queen’s gauntlet were a step in the right direction).

For character progression, they desperately need to implement the system they proposed earlier this year in a very aggressive manner. EVERY new 2-week update should include at least one new trait and/or utility skill for players to unlock (ideally through several different methods). The more we play, the more versatile our character should become (being mindful that this is about versatility, not increased damage or value to a party).

Blaeys.3102:

While Im happy with the current state of the game and am still enjoying myself after playing almost non stop since betas, I do agree that more could be done at end game to spice up the game and add longevity.

First, I like that endgame isnt about gear or rewards beyond cosmetics. I hope they never change that. With that in mind, I think end game comes down to two elements – gameplay and character progression.

The mechanics for both of these are already in place, but need to be improved. Keep in mind that this is related to PVE. I think PVP deserves the same level of attention, but should be treated separately.

For game play, I think the living story can fill this role, as long as they do not get fixated on any single element. In the span of every 2-3 months, we need something for every type of player – a new world boss, new zones, new jumping puzzles, new dynamic events, NEW DUNGEONS/FRACTALS, new crafting, new minigames and new storylines. For some of these areas, there should be three tiers of OPTIONAL achievements – for laid back, typical and hardcore players respectively. These achievements need to reflect the effort put into them and give players looking for a greater achievement something almost impossible to strive for (some of the achievements associated with the queen’s gauntlet were a step in the right direction).

For character progression, they desperately need to implement the system they proposed earlier this year in a very aggressive manner. EVERY new 2-week update should include at least one new trait and/or utility skill for players to unlock (ideally through several different methods). The more we play, the more versatile our character should become (being mindful that this is about versatility, not increased damage or value to a party).

Getting skills through diffrent ways is actual well thought.