Guild Wars 2

Hi,
So i heard about the rat farm recently and decided to try it as it sounds interesting. So i bought 4g worth of balm and started the instance and kept converting rats which was oddly satisfying. After about 15mins i decided to check my loot and i had 215 ToT bags, thinking how oddly alike gw1 festival raptor farming this was i realised that this is very profitable, in fact, it was too profitable. The balms are 9s each and i used maybe 4-5 per run which netted me about 20 bags which is about 1.2g? So i have decided to stop for the time being as guildies have advised me to not continue just in case.

So my question is, is this an exploit? It is pretty much gw1 festival farming and the consumable is doing what its meant to , but still it just seems too good? Maybe it’s only so profitable because the patch only just came out?

I wouldn’t really say this is a real exploit as you are not taking advantage of a bug, however it is very profitable and likely unintended so I also would advise you to not do it just in case it is considered exploiting. I wouldn’t worry about the bags you have already farmed, if you didn’t know it was exploiting (if it is at all) there is no problem.

Consider this – it’s an instance that you are only supposed to visit once. Not once per character, once per account. By repeating the start to farm you are exploiting a loophole, and by using the balm on the massive amount of critters there, you are exploiting the oversight of the creatures in the instance dropping loot (which doesn’t happen in any story instances).

People can argue whether, by definition, it’s technically an exploit until they’re blue in the face, but in the end, if you make too much money in too short a time, you’d better watch out. (Unless you’re doing it off the TP.)

Just checked it out, extremely profitable right now. Maybe people haven’t caught on. It sure seems like an exploit to me. Cost of maize less than 10s and you can walk out with an easy 70s in less than 30 seconds. Hit log out char select right back where you started this could be a problem imo. But I’ve seen them let people farm in gw1 like no tomorrow so who knows. For those who do not have the candy corn mini. This would be the way to go for tots if anet doesn’t consider it an exploit. I had to check it on an alt account. Which is why it would put me at the start of the instance each time I hit log out, log in. I used just one bottle per run. I will not be doing it any more in the event it is an exploit.

I blame it on the mini gywenydrr drop rate.

I doubt there is a point discussing this since u have brilliantly announced it on forums and the prices of the respective items should see corrective movement……..

Ankushp.7245:

I doubt there is a point discussing this since u have brilliantly announced it on forums and the prices of the respective items should see corrective movement……..

^^ apparently they are up to 10s now, and they were 6s this morning before I left for work. So it’s changing quickly. I imagine somewhere around 30-40s is the correct amount.

i don’t think its an exploit, because after a while you wont be getting a lot of tot bags, after killing 16 enemies you will get 2-3 bags

Whether it’s a bug or not, and whether DR works or not doesn’t matter.
“An exploit is the misuse of a software feature or bug in a way that allows a player to generate in-game benefits without the risk or time expected by the game’s designers.”

I’d say 50-60g/hour by one-hitting creeps over and over again is an exploit, and a clear one at that.

I guess it’s up to you if you take the chance.

screenshotting that response for future reference ._.

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

i don’t think it is fair that this would be allowed though as many people would love to farm it but cant because they finished the story… if you are saying its not an exploit then let the rest of the population do it who are not able to. even though this would make the price of the item drop tremendously we should be able to at least repeat the first event on our alts even if it would be solely to replay the story and listen to it

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

There is one problem though. People who completed the instance cant return to it and loose the ability to farm it.

So everyone who actually played the game and completed the story are out of luck? Should we just shrug our shoulders and say “Oh well I guess if people are paying for them its still fair despite not having access to it” If I find a way to dupe items can I just say “people are willing to pay for them” and crash the games economy?

Nontoxic.6710:

So everyone who actually played the game and completed the story are out of luck? Should we just shrug our shoulders and say “Oh well I guess if people are paying for them its still fair despite not having access to it” If I find a way to dupe items can I just say “people are willing to pay for them” and crash the games economy?

i also finished story before i knew about that way to farm, so what do i do know ? its easy , i farm ambient creatures at another spot (no i wont tell where) , its not that fast as in the story , but still very fast.

so instead of complaining , go and buy some maize balm and search for a spot with ambiet creatures and farm that kitten as long as it is profitabel

shh dont tell them

ital already being over farmed

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

Can’t say I’m surprised at that response. Most players did the dungeon like normal but a very small percentage got lucky and found out about this before they did it. Now they get to reap the rewards while everyone else is out of luck. In Anet’s eyes it must be deemed okay since its not everyone using it but just a few players. Ignore the fact they get to make massive bank on it while everyone else is basically out of luck.

Anet has already shown they don’t really like to give everyone a even playing field, be it this patch or past ones. Either remove the critters the first time you enter or give us a option to re-play it. If you deem this as a non exploit then we all should have the chance to do it.

So an exploit of game mechanisms is legit. Maybe you should change your term of services and “legalize” it ?

It’s not like that is the only place with ambient creatures…

It’s the only place with no-respawn time because you can kill ambients and re-enter. Rinse/repeat.

Zetsuei.8942:

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

Can’t say I’m surprised at that response. Most players did the dungeon like normal but a very small percentage got lucky and found out about this before they did it. Now they get to reap the rewards while everyone else is out of luck. In Anet’s eyes it must be deemed okay since its not everyone using it but just a few players. Ignore the fact they get to make massive bank on it while everyone else is basically out of luck.

Anet has already shown they don’t really like to give everyone a even playing field, be it this patch or past ones. Either remove the critters the first time you enter or give us a option to re-play it. If you deem this as a non exploit then we all should have the chance to do it.

+1

Zetsuei.8942:

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

Can’t say I’m surprised at that response. Most players did the dungeon like normal but a very small percentage got lucky and found out about this before they did it. Now they get to reap the rewards while everyone else is out of luck. In Anet’s eyes it must be deemed okay since its not everyone using it but just a few players. Ignore the fact they get to make massive bank on it while everyone else is basically out of luck.

Anet has already shown they don’t really like to give everyone a even playing field, be it this patch or past ones. Either remove the critters the first time you enter or give us a option to re-play it. If you deem this as a non exploit then we all should have the chance to do it.

You say it like it’s some kind of Anet-specific-offense. Sometimes when an exploit is fixed, the offenders are rolled back in some way. Sometimes they are not. That’s just MMOs. Better get used to it cause it’s not going anywhere.

Balm only works with 3 at a time. That’s 9 per balm. Most sills hit only 3-5 at a time.

I don’t see anything wrong with it. It’s just people turning some drops into something else. It isn’t different to someone finding some recipe that is relatively cheap to make but sells well. Like with beaded weapons once.

I already got to the 2nd part of the story so I cant go back and do it, but my brother is doing it instead and he’s only been doing it for like, 10 minutes now but the Candy Corn Elementals aren’t dropping it as often.

He used to be getting 1 ToT bag per Candy Corn Elemental but now he’s getting like, 1 every 3?
Even took a 2 hour break in case of DR but it’s still the same. Is it affected by MF for the drops?

Side note… The Vials of Maize Balm are shooting up in price right now so it sorta off sets the profit made

No it is a scholar exploit of unintended game mechanism. Now we know that game exploits are legit. The red that posted here is tagged “Game Security Lead”, so he endorse exploits, and by him arenanet does. They just have to change their term of service now.

Man it stinks that ambient creatures only spawn in the story instance and not anywhere else in the world. Also its such a shame that there isn’t a recipe for the maize balm that is made from the ingrediants that drop from the tot bags that would allow you to do this ambient thing all year even after the story is gone. Oh wait there is

It’s a clever way of farming, and while I do think it seems borderline exploity, I think in the long run this is actually a good thing. Having these balms means that players can farm ToT bags all year around, which means a non-stop supply of Halloween mats and rare goodies.

Zaxares.5419:

It’s a clever way of farming, and while I do think it seems borderline exploity, I think in the long run this is actually a good thing. Having these balms means that players can farm ToT bags all year around, which means a non-stop supply of Halloween mats and rare goodies.

Exactly, the only borderline expoity thing though is the instance that is so good for it but you can lock yourself out of. I get why some people are angry about it, but there are other places with pretty great ambient populations.

Indeed, there are the ways you describe, and there is this game exploit. If you found an exploit to drop an ascended chest each mob killed, you couldn’t say that it would be the same thing that the lucky game drop. It would still be a game exploit, but we now know that arenanet permit them.

Simzani.4318:

Indeed, there are the ways you describe, and there is this game exploit. If you found an exploit to drop an ascended chest each mob killed, you couldn’t say that it would be the same thing that the lucky game drop. It would still be a game exploit, but we now know that arenanet permit them.

Ascended chest, and a ToT bag are quite a big difference, hyperbole doesn’t help your argument. Maize balms are on their way up to the price they should be at, this solid farm spot is a nice perk of the season, yes it’s IMO bad that people are locked out of it after completion, but there are still spots to do it.

There are spots, and there is this game exploit. Don’t be offended, exploits just been permitted by arenanet.

This is actually really good for the economy of the game, as it’s an insane gold sink. You literally have no idea how much gold is disappearing from the game thanks to this farm.

Linen farm: create endless mobs, kill mobs, get loot.
Ambient farm: create endless mobs, kill mobs, get loot.

Linen farm: some players don’t want want to farm linen. Farmers do this for them and sell on TP. People pay market price.
Ambient farm: some players don’t want/can no longer farm ambients. Farmers do this for them, and sell results on TP. People pay market price.

Linen farm: mass bans.
Ambient farm: Dev-approved.

???

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

Quite frankly, this is completely unfair. Those of us who played the content normally and finished the instance are locked out of the best farm spot in game for 2 weeks. If you think this is so kosher, than why don’t elementals in personal story instances drop bags? I could farm Lion’s Arch sewer in vigil personal story if you hadn’t arbitrarily removed ToT bags from it.

And no, there is no other comparable ambient farm in game. Everywhere else is in the open world you can be endlessly trolled or competed with for bags. Hell in Rata Sum there were a group of 10 players continuously spamming necro marks on a particularly good ambient spawn just so people couldn’t farm it. And there are absolutely no comparable clusters of ambients to the reliquary in the entire game.

But I guess I’m the fool for playing the content as Anet intended. From now on I’ll make sure to wait several days for kosher exploits before accidentally ruining things for myself.

Personally, I’ve never posted on the forum before for any reason so I hope I’m doing this right, I have been watching this thread for a few hours today since I discovered the magic of the maize balm and I’ve seen a lot of complaining from the parties who are locked out of the story quest area, And very little suggestions for what they could do as an alternative to the rat flood map so I’m going to just post what I did before I found the area for myself,

Queensdale was my first choice for ambient creatures, Primarily in the swamp because it has an excess of sparkfly and frogs I spent some time there and made some nice loot out of it, Takes a little longer then the story quest map but its still “profitable” if that is what you’re in it for.

My second choice was around the mirkrise waypoint in the brisban wildlands and it performed much better than Queensdale, I’d highly recommend it if you’re locked out of the story map.

The third choice I made was around morgans spiral in my sylvari homeland and it performed on a tad lower mark than Queensdale but still worked out in the end,

And lastly, If you’re locked out of the story quest part you can just go in with a friend or guildmate and take turns sharing the instance, Any real friend would be more than happy to help you out if you explain your situation,

The map is temporary, But the balms are for as far as we know permanent so there really is no use in whining over something like the map being locked when it won’t be around long anyways, Are you going to complain when it leaves? Not really,

And now a few suggestions regarding the map for the developers that I’m sure would make some of this crowd here tonight happy, You could start with making the story quest repeatable like the living story, Or if that isn’t completely possible you could lower the number or rats or do away with them completely, Maybe even just reapply them to the map under the alias of a deer or a boar so they don’t count for the balm but you can still see them for the overall feel of having the rats?

TL;DR Suggestions for using the balm outside of the story instance and suggestions for the devs to make the story instance less farm-friendly.

Zetsuei.8942:

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

Can’t say I’m surprised at that response. Most players did the dungeon like normal but a very small percentage got lucky and found out about this before they did it. Now they get to reap the rewards while everyone else is out of luck. In Anet’s eyes it must be deemed okay since its not everyone using it but just a few players. Ignore the fact they get to make massive bank on it while everyone else is basically out of luck.

Anet has already shown they don’t really like to give everyone a even playing field, be it this patch or past ones. Either remove the critters the first time you enter or give us a option to re-play it. If you deem this as a non exploit then we all should have the chance to do it.

This is just silly because there are other places with almost as many ambient creatures in the world.

Even if this is not an exploit, it doesn’t mean Anet won’t intervene. I foresee that some sort of nerf will be coming soon. For example, cool down on Maize balm? remove the use of that tonic from the instance? or even, remove the drop from the critters?

I think what Anet is trying to say is everyone selling Maize balm cheaply on the TP is a ******.

If it is so good, why sell it so cheaply.

Paradox.1380:

This is just silly because there are other places with almost as many ambient creatures in the world.

Hm, not really. There are almost zero spots where you can continuously get 3+ ambients per throw, with fast respawn rate. And the places where you can get close are exploding with other farmers and griefers, bringing the profit per hour down by at least half.

So you can’t just start new characters?

Malediktus.9250:

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

There is one problem though. People who completed the instance cant return to it and loose the ability to farm it.

You can save them for next year. But yeah, it kinda sucks :/

Paradox.1380:

This is just silly because there are other places with almost as many ambient creatures in the world.

30+ in one small cluster?

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

Then what is an exploit? Was the repeatable storymission with rewards an exploit? Apparently failing events on purpose isn’t an exploit either. It’s really hard to figure out what an exploit is in this game. Because that farm is “too good to be true” ,most of my guildmembers considered it to be an exploit and it gives me as a player who haven’t completed the story an unfair advantage over other players.

Sariel V.7024:

Malediktus.9250:

Chris Cleary.8017:

In a player driven economy, the demand of an item surpassing the supply generated by the playerbase will increase the value of it. While there are some items in these bags that are not based around cosmetics (the low drop rate of T6 mats), the price of these bags is directly relative to the cosmetic value that is being placed on them. While currently profitable, that profit is derrived directly from other players and their willingness to play a higher price. In essence, this is a transfer of wealth not wealth generation.

As far as this specific spawn of ambients is concerned, it’s definatly one of the faster ones to farm. As long as the playerbase is willing to pay for that item, and the demand remains higher than the supply, it will be profitable. This is not an exploit, it’s the playerbase saying “thank you for farming this, because we didn’t want to”.

There is one problem though. People who completed the instance cant return to it and loose the ability to farm it.

You can save them for next year. But yeah, it kinda sucks :/

I would love to hear from anyone who plans to be still playing this game in a year if its still even around. I honestly doubt it by looking at the path its going towards.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Linen farm: create endless mobs, kill mobs, get loot.
Ambient farm: create endless mobs, kill mobs, get loot.

Linen farm: some players don’t want want to farm linen. Farmers do this for them and sell on TP. People pay market price.
Ambient farm: some players don’t want/can no longer farm ambients. Farmers do this for them, and sell results on TP. People pay market price.

Linen farm: mass bans.
Ambient farm: Dev-approved.

???

I was thinking exactly the same thing when I read the red post. This is exactly the same thing and was also what I compared this ambient creature farm to in another thread, where people wanted to know whether this could be an exploit or not…

I really wonder how we are supposed to tell what is considered an exploit and what isn’t when the definition seems to change every few weeks/months or so.

Rayti.6531:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Linen farm: create endless mobs, kill mobs, get loot.
Ambient farm: create endless mobs, kill mobs, get loot.

Linen farm: some players don’t want want to farm linen. Farmers do this for them and sell on TP. People pay market price.
Ambient farm: some players don’t want/can no longer farm ambients. Farmers do this for them, and sell results on TP. People pay market price.

Linen farm: mass bans.
Ambient farm: Dev-approved.

???

I was thinking exactly the same thing when I read the red post. This is exactly the same thing and was also what I compared this ambient creature farm to in another thread, where people wanted to know whether this could be an exploit or not…

I really wonder how we are supposed to tell what is considered an exploit and what isn’t when the definition seems to change every few weeks/months or so.

That’s always the thing, exploit is whatever they decide it is, I mean look at keyfarming, pretty sketchy and raised a lot of questions… stamp of approval though.

This situation though requires the use of a consumable that is quickly raising in price (3X what it was this morning) to even be able to gain anything from it. Was the linen farm that way? There are other places to use this item, this is simply the easiest/best one.

Broken.1386:

Even took a 2 hour break in case of DR but it’s still the same. Is it affected by MF for the drops?

Time breaks do not reset DR. Doing events in different zones does.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Linen farm: create endless mobs, kill mobs, get loot.
Ambient farm: create endless mobs, kill mobs, get loot.

Linen farm: some players don’t want want to farm linen. Farmers do this for them and sell on TP. People pay market price.
Ambient farm: some players don’t want/can no longer farm ambients. Farmers do this for them, and sell results on TP. People pay market price.

Linen farm: mass bans.
Ambient farm: Dev-approved.

???

My thoughts exactly