Guild Wars 2

Let me start by telling you, there is no tl:dr;
Secondly, this is not a suggestion, it is a call to the community to have an unbiased and mature discussion around a possible fix to the precursor situation.

This thread is not about finding alternatives to the Mystic Forge method to obtain your precursor. It is about changing the current Mystic Forge method into something more palatable.
It is also not about a rework of the legendary system as a whole and whether or not precursors and legendaries should be soulbound. Those are topics worthy of their own threads and discussions.

Rather, the focus here is on the existing system in place and how Anet can, with minimal effort, change it to be fair for all who participate.

The suggestion for a possible permanent fix:

For every 4 exotics or rares you dump in the forge, you get a ‘token’ of sorts.
The number of tokens will correspond to the quality of the items dropped. (clever people can work out the economics around this)
Myani will sell the precursors (and perhaps some other things like crystals and stones) for a predetermined amount of these mystic forge tokens.

What does this mean

• You take your chances and, when unsuccessful, you at least get some form of progression towards your goal.
• Some people will still get lucky. Some wont.
• People who got theirs the old way will (should) have little reason to complain.
• Lucky people can still sell the precursors if they so desire: Instant gratification for those who are into that kind of thing will therefore still be available.
• As a token-system is already in place in various parts of the game, this should be a relatively easy and quick implementation.
• Anet is free to cut the scavenger hunt idea loose and concentrate on other important enhancements and bug fixes.
• Most importantly: The current gold and item sink will remain intact. The in-game economy will not implode and nobody will be negatively affected, except maybe, the TP precursor manipulators. Also, as rares and exotics are subject to inflation the price you finally pay per precursor if you buy with tokens will rise in accordance to market condition. Again, clever people can work out the exact number of tokens per dump, though…

So… what do you think? Good idea, bad idea, improvements required?
Thank you for your time.

Do not agree. Mystic forge is gambling.

However dragon chest tokens would be more up my alley. A stack should cut it. But even then people will complain because they want a free precursor. No amount of making it easier will be enough.

i would suggest making the precursor easy to obtain, but make other parts of the legendary process harder. Also each ingredient should be account bound, so that you cant simply buy mats from the TP. Perhaps there shouldnt be ingreedients but achievements that would award you with a part of the recipe.

Are you somehow under the impression that Arena Net wants to remove RNG? O.o

If so, you are completely wrong. Arena Net is in fact adding more and more elements of RNG with every update.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Are you somehow under the impression that Arena Net wants to remove RNG? O.o

If so, you are completely wrong. Arena Net is in fact adding more and more elements of RNG with every update.

Not at all.
If you re-read the OP carefully you will find that RNG will be alive and well in that scenario.

RNG is a necessary evil to control and manage the economy. What they have done with the mystic forge is one of the best item and gold sinks I have ever seen. So, no, it needs to stay, unfortunately.
Pure RNG on a 1/4 of a legendary weapon recipe needs to be looked at, however. And that is the point of the suggestion.

Maybe in the big picture there has to be constant demand for rare and exotic crafted weapons in some form, as heavy handed as it may be. Careful what you wish for.

The thing is too much currency around already and they even deactivated one because was giving ‘’many blc keys (?)’’

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Are you somehow under the impression that Arena Net wants to remove RNG? O.o

If so, you are completely wrong. Arena Net is in fact adding more and more elements of RNG with every update.

Not at all.
If you re-read the OP carefully you will find that RNG will be alive and well in that scenario.

RNG is a necessary evil to control and manage the economy. What they have done with the mystic forge is one of the best item and gold sinks I have ever seen. So, no, it needs to stay, unfortunately.
Pure RNG on a 1/4 of a legendary weapon recipe needs to be looked at, however. And that is the point of the suggestion.

Don’t get me wrong, the suggestion is decent. Arena Net will never implement it however, just like the scavenger hunt they are talking about.

marnick.4305:

Do not agree. Mystic forge is gambling.

However dragon chest tokens would be more up my alley. A stack should cut it. But even then people will complain because they want a free precursor. No amount of making it easier will be enough.

Even though I cant fully agree with a 250 dragon tokens scenario, the base of this idea seems good. Something possibly also worth considering at least. I have a feeling that having to kill the dragons may end up in the proposed scavenger hunt in some way…

molepunch.5673:

Maybe in the big picture there has to be constant demand for rare and exotic crafted weapons in some form, as heavy handed as it may be. Careful what you wish for.

Not sure I follow..
If you mean that mats required for crafted weapons will become a problem, why exactly is that?

jaka.9635:

i would suggest making the precursor easy to obtain, but make other parts of the legendary process harder. Also each ingredient should be account bound, so that you cant simply buy mats from the TP. Perhaps there shouldnt be ingreedients but achievements that would award you with a part of the recipe.

^ Something like this would be a good thing!

Legendaries should mean legendary player status. And by this i mean that it shouldn’t based on the player’s wealth, but in his deeds.

A better solution is to make tokens redeemable on made achievements. In this line of view it is a fairly better solution to:
- Reduce T6 materials and add tokens achievement based on Chopping/Mining/Harvesting and Salvaging.
- Reduce the Lodestone amounts and add tokens trough dungeon completions.
- Add tokens for doing Jumping Puzzles;
- Add tokens for crafting lv400 exotic gear with a added ingredient “Prove of mastery” for example.
- Increase the chances of dropping precursors in the MF, Dragons.
- Add tokens for slaying dragons!
- Add tokens for doing META events throughout different maps!

Somethings are fine:
- Mystic Clovers should be the only RNG factor on the legendary
- Gift from dungeon tokens are fine!
- Gifts from WvW are fine (Although i rather have them trough achievments);
- Gifts from map completion are fine;
- Obsidian shards are fine;

The way it is now, it’s a complete nonsense. Gold means Legendary weapons… LOL. Impossible Precursors chance, Grind farming materials, RAGE and more RAGE.

Cheers

No one should ever get a precursor from a Dragon Chest. Dragons are so mind numbingly stupid (stand in one place and auto attack). If there is any one thing that is broken with this game it’s the dragons, on a kitten timer at that. Zero challenge, faceroll skill involved, absolutely the same exact thing every single time you fight one in the same exact place on a clock. A legendary process it ain’t. I feel more challenged from a skritt.

I would take precursors off the trading post as a start.

Then I would double the drop rates, double the proc rates, add precursors to the Laurel Vendors for 120 laurels and add recipes to the Mystic Forge that allow you to convert any precursor into your desired precursor. (Recipe 1 precursor, 1 MF vendor item priced somewhere between 20G and 40G, two additional modestly priced mats, the combination of which determines which precursor you get. Just an example, Gold sink, opportunity to exchange a precursor you obtain for one you want at a reasonable premium).

I’d also add other alternative ways of getting precursors that would make sense, ensuring that people who play Dungeons, play WvW or play world PvE all have the same mean time played before obtaining a precursor as any other play style. There is no reason that precursors should be much more available for dungeon grinders than WvW or PvE players.

Taking them off the TP, along with the other methods of obtaining the precursor you want, go hand in hand. If there is no longer a way to sell a precursor, precursors can be added to reward systems like Laurels with out representing wealth. The MF exchange system adds the needed gold sink.

Laurel Cost for a precursor set to around 120 would represent a major time investment, while still providing a guaranteed path for dedicated players. Three months of 30 completed dailies and 3 completed monthlies would be the quickest route. (Arenanet are planning to add Laurels for Achievement Points, with the exchange rate TBD. 120 would be my recommended cost based just on dailies/monthlies as a Laurel source. This could be adjusted upwards a bit to account for the ability to earn Laurels via AP).

I don’t think any of the above is unreasonable. It would provide a path for any dedicated player to obtain a precursor with a significant, but predictable time commitment, in the event that they aren’t blessed by the RNG gods in the mean time. Players would still have to obtain all the other ingredients for their Legendary, which also requires a big commitment by players. This all would just mean that any player willing to work extremely hard could get their legendary in 3-4 months, while also recognizing that the number of players who would be able to complete the task in the minimum time frame would still be a small percentage of the population, preserving the rarity of Legendaries in the community. (A casual might realistically be able to acquire a Legendary in a year, but even then most players would not have the follow through to actually obtain one).

I think you should get the parts for a legendary from achievements. They should also be account/soul bound on creation. I feel you should never be able to buy a legendary. Being able to buy one just takes away the whole point to one. That is just my opinion. I have no intention of getting one as it is way too much of a hassle in my opinion to be bothered with.

marnick.4305:

Do not agree. Mystic forge is gambling.

However dragon chest tokens would be more up my alley. A stack should cut it. But even then people will complain because they want a free precursor. No amount of making it easier will be enough.

Yes, doing 250 times of laggfest at a boring and skillless metaevent truely is legendary.
I’d say you get one every 50.000 kills in Wv3. No other possibilities to get one.

Unless it means giving it a fixed reasonable price then no it isnt a correct fix. But since Anets friends run that side of the market that wont happen.

Pull either legendary or Pre off the TP and give it a fixed price. That is the only way to make it a reasonable fix.
It will never happen cause that would make most people happy and the wealth and influential in game miserable. Cant have anets friends unhappy.

Narkosys.5173:

Unless it means giving it a fixed reasonable price then no it isnt a correct fix. But since Anets friends run that side of the market that wont happen.

Pull either legendary or Pre off the TP and give it a fixed price. That is the only way to make it a reasonable fix.
It will never happen cause that would make most people happy and the wealth and influential in game miserable. Cant have anets friends unhappy.

Rares and exotics cost gold to craft or buy. Mystic forge tokens will therefore have a gold value associated to it, which will fluctuate as the prices of these weapons rises and falls. So, yes, in effect there will be a possible max amount required per precursor at any given point in time.

Lets just say, for example, that at current value you have to dump the equivalent of 400 gold worth of rare / exotic greatswords into the forge in order to get the quantity of tokens required to purchase a precursor from Miyani.

This example assumes that the player is unlucky in all attempts, never receives a precursor, and has to go the full distance with tokens alone.

Do not agree as it would guarantee precursors. Guaranteed precursors imply that the ONLY obstacle to get them is time, which means down the road everyone and their dog will have a legendary.

Want a skill-based challenge?

That challenge needs to be:

1. Instanced. It is your skill that matters, not how many friends you got.
2. Insanely difficult. Think Mad King Clock tower x10 + soloing a legendary boss + time limit
3. Randomized, as in procedurally generated (basically the puzzle, and the way to solve it, has an infinite number of randomly assembled variations based on modular design). This means no online guides.

Then you approach the kind of percentages that currently exist with RNG, thus keeping legendaries rare and rewarding only those who are skilled enough.

Gaudrath.6725:

Then you approach the kind of percentages that currently exist with RNG, thus keeping legendaries rare and rewarding only those who are skilled enough.

I object to your use of the word ‘keeping’. At the moment, the legendaries do not require any kind of exceptional skill. Your statement that the RNG makes legendaries rewards for skilled players is false.

Also, due to the way random drops work, the process is currently 100% time based. The only difference is that some are lucky and get it sooner, making it cost less time, while others are unlucky and get it later. Precursors can already be bought through the tokens known as ‘gold’.

So hence, the original poster’s suggestion doesn’t differ all that much from the system we already have at the moment.

Gaudrath.6725:

Then you approach the kind of percentages that currently exist with RNG, thus keeping legendaries rare and rewarding only those who are skilled enough.

Thanks for your comment.
Unfortunately I disagree with the quoted statement in that, with the current system, player skill has nothing at all to do with obtaining a precursor. It is pure luck based for most players, those unfortunate enough to enjoy the game content and not powertrade every minute played. The suggestion merely gives this luck based part of the legendary crafting process a hard cap.

I’ve also read through various posts you’ve recently made regarding precursors and it seems you feel very strongly about legendary weapon exclusivity. While I appreciate this and feel that many will agree that the legendary weapons system is severely flawed from a player skill perspective, it deserves a thread in its own right and it will not add anything to the topic being discussed here.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

marnick.4305:

Do not agree. Mystic forge is gambling.

However dragon chest tokens would be more up my alley. A stack should cut it. But even then people will complain because they want a free precursor. No amount of making it easier will be enough.

Even though I cant fully agree with a 250 dragon tokens scenario, the base of this idea seems good. Something possibly also worth considering at least. I have a feeling that having to kill the dragons may end up in the proposed scavenger hunt in some way…

I know, I was doubting that 250 too. My first write up was 1000 but that seemed a bit too harsh. On the other hand … 250 is too few.

Currently, precursors destroy huge amounts of materials to make and that’s a good thing for this economy. A scavenger hunt should be a once-per-character thing, but even then … it should award a random one. Otherwise everyone goes for Dusk and sells it for Quip. On the other hand, people going for Dusk will get an aquatic one … There’s just no good way.

Time gating is the only real solution and killing 1000 dragons does exactly that.

it would be better to just put an npc to sell them…

100G for 1Hand and 200G for 2Hand
so they get 2 thing at once:
1) helps players that need precursors
2) hit hard speculators

Precursors should be a guaranteed drop…somewhere. Either from world complete, you get to choose one. Or from finishing all dungeons, or jump puzzles, or wvw goals, or spvp goals. Something that covers everyone. Then make legendaries and precursors Bind on Acquire to account (honestly, being able to sell and buy precursors and legendaries is one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen), so they stop inflaming the populace. Increase drop rates of lodestones by a percentage or three and give them out in the temple chests (bet that would make more people run orr, and do the events out there) (not the dragon chests, why would killing a building model on a timer be legendary at all) and leave the rest alone. Would still be Legendary to acquire one, increase world participation, decrease gold worries, and not destroy the economy. Personally, I couldn’t care less about them though.

Fiontar.4695:

I would take precursors off the trading post as a start.

Then I would double the drop rates, double the proc rates, add precursors to the Laurel Vendors for 120 laurels and add recipes to the Mystic Forge that allow you to convert any precursor into your desired precursor. (Recipe 1 precursor, 1 MF vendor item priced somewhere between 20G and 40G, two additional modestly priced mats, the combination of which determines which precursor you get. Just an example, Gold sink, opportunity to exchange a precursor you obtain for one you want at a reasonable premium).

I’d also add other alternative ways of getting precursors that would make sense, ensuring that people who play Dungeons, play WvW or play world PvE all have the same mean time played before obtaining a precursor as any other play style. There is no reason that precursors should be much more available for dungeon grinders than WvW or PvE players.

Taking them off the TP, along with the other methods of obtaining the precursor you want, go hand in hand. If there is no longer a way to sell a precursor, precursors can be added to reward systems like Laurels with out representing wealth. The MF exchange system adds the needed gold sink.

Laurel Cost for a precursor set to around 120 would represent a major time investment, while still providing a guaranteed path for dedicated players. Three months of 30 completed dailies and 3 completed monthlies would be the quickest route. (Arenanet are planning to add Laurels for Achievement Points, with the exchange rate TBD. 120 would be my recommended cost based just on dailies/monthlies as a Laurel source. This could be adjusted upwards a bit to account for the ability to earn Laurels via AP).

I don’t think any of the above is unreasonable. It would provide a path for any dedicated player to obtain a precursor with a significant, but predictable time commitment, in the event that they aren’t blessed by the RNG gods in the mean time. Players would still have to obtain all the other ingredients for their Legendary, which also requires a big commitment by players. This all would just mean that any player willing to work extremely hard could get their legendary in 3-4 months, while also recognizing that the number of players who would be able to complete the task in the minimum time frame would still be a small percentage of the population, preserving the rarity of Legendaries in the community. (A casual might realistically be able to acquire a Legendary in a year, but even then most players would not have the follow through to actually obtain one).

Some very very good ideas here. Unfortunately most of this will require a major time investment from Arenanet so the chances of us ever seeing anything like this is probably extremely small. Also, even with a gold sink as described it would not even begin to compare to the current gold/item sink we have in game. It may become viable when more ascended gear comes onto the scene, requiring even more ectos to be disposed of. It seems like its a very delicate balancing act, trying to keep the economy in check while keeping your player base happy…

Lets just think about something for a second:
The game needs RNG and the mystic forge to survive in it’s current state.

I know, harsh words and I almost cannot believe that I’ve typed it…
While I was working on my legendary I was blinded by rage at the nonsense of the mystic forge and how stupid the whole idea was. I slowly realized, however, that without this ‘idiocy in design’ as I once called it, the in game economy will look a whole lot different to what we have now. Rares will be basically worth just more than vendor prices. The same can be said about exotics. Why is that, you may ask? Well, it’s a simple matter of supply and demand. There are hundreds, even thousands, of rares being farmed and crafted each day. The market will simply be flooded. This will cause a spiral effect where things like ecto (amongst others) will drastically loose value. Even harvested materials will become literally worthless. The game needs a mechanic where we, as players, can dispose of all these excess items: the mystic forge. Currently, the primary reason for using the forge is the chance you have at a precursor. Take that away and you disrupt the entire system.

In the long term, with ascended gear requiring a gold sink in the form of ecto, this may change to the point where the gamble for precursors are no longer required in the game in order to keep item quantities in check. For now, though, we have to accept this situation as reality and think of ways how Arenanet can improve the current system. Something that will keep players content and feeling like they are progressing, even with bad luck, while not destroying the economy.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

The game needs a mechanic where we, as players, can dispose of all these excess items: the mystic forge. Currently, the primary reason for using the forge is the chance you have at a precursor.

Fair point, but we do in fact already have a system to destroy excess rares and exotics, they’re called salvage kits.

People salvaging rares for Ectos massively outnumber people chucking rares down the mystic toilet for a chance at a Precursor. I’d suggest that making the Precursors more widely available would not really affect the economy at all.

Even if it did, who cares? This is a game economy, not a real one. If exotics were vendor trash prices, then it would be much cheaper for us to kit ourselves out in full exotics. Why is that not desirable? Imagine being able to buy a full exotic set for a couple of gold… sounds amazing!

In any case, something else would move to become the “expensive” thing that everyone wants. Maybe Abyss dye, maybe some silly minipet or a staff nobody’s ever seen in game.

Humans are silly and markets and economies adjust to their silliness, lets not ruin the whole concept of Legendary weapons which, without the crazy precursor price, are a really great idea. It would be silly to let them fade into nothing just because we want to protect the status quo and are afraid of what might or might not happen if we try something different.

Chamone.6890:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

The game needs a mechanic where we, as players, can dispose of all these excess items: the mystic forge. Currently, the primary reason for using the forge is the chance you have at a precursor.

Fair point, but we do in fact already have a system to destroy excess rares and exotics, they’re called salvage kits.

People salvaging rares for Ectos massively outnumber people chucking rares down the mystic toilet for a chance at a Precursor. I’d suggest that making the Precursors more widely available would not really affect the economy at all.

Even if it did, who cares? This is a game economy, not a real one. If exotics were vendor trash prices, then it would be much cheaper for us to kit ourselves out in full exotics. Why is that not desirable? Imagine being able to buy a full exotic set for a couple of gold… sounds amazing!

In any case, something else would move to become the “expensive” thing that everyone wants. Maybe Abyss dye, maybe some silly minipet or a staff nobody’s ever seen in game.

Humans are silly and markets and economies adjust to their silliness, lets not ruin the whole concept of Legendary weapons which, without the crazy precursor price, are a really great idea. It would be silly to let them fade into nothing just because we want to protect the status quo and are afraid of what might or might not happen if we try something different.

Well with ascended armor around the cornet the picture you’ve painted may very well become reality. Exotics will become the new rares soon… as it will fall down a tier.

As for the effect removing precursor RNG from the forge will have on the economy: nobody but Arenanet will know. So, you may very well be correct in that it may not have such a devastating effect on the economy after all. We can only guess, based on personal experience and guild interaction, how many weapons are dropped down the forge daily… to me it seems like a lot, but it could be because of the guilds I’m in or the specific types of players in my friends list.

There will have to be changes made to legendaries, agreed. I think, however, the current batch of legendary weapons and the ways of obtaining them will remain intact… But, major improvements can and should be made to any new legendary weapons and armor we are presented in future. This suggestion is not out to ruin the legendary idea… not at all, if anything, it could serve to keep more people participating in it.

LordByron.8369:

it would be better to just put an npc to sell them…

100G for 1Hand and 200G for 2Hand
so they get 2 thing at once:
1) helps players that need precursors
2) hit hard speculators

If you would have said 400 and 600 I may have been inclined to agree, but frankly, you suggestion does not make sense and reeks of jealousy.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Gaudrath.6725:

Then you approach the kind of percentages that currently exist with RNG, thus keeping legendaries rare and rewarding only those who are skilled enough.

Thanks for your comment.
Unfortunately I disagree with the quoted statement in that, with the current system, player skill has nothing at all to do with obtaining a precursor. It is pure luck based for most players, those unfortunate enough to enjoy the game content and not powertrade every minute played. The suggestion merely gives this luck based part of the legendary crafting process a hard cap.

I’ve also read through various posts you’ve recently made regarding precursors and it seems you feel very strongly about legendary weapon exclusivity. While I appreciate this and feel that many will agree that the legendary weapons system is severely flawed from a player skill perspective, it deserves a thread in its own right and it will not add anything to the topic being discussed here.

My statement was meant to say that RNG right now is keeping legendaries rare. Which it does. It doesn’t reward skill, if you wanted to reward skill, your system must be harsh enough so that the RNG maintained levels of rarity are not disturbed.

Reading other suggestions here, I get a strong feeling people just want handouts.

None of the suggestions here are very good. Anet has stated that their target is for 5% of the population to get legendaries. We are probably already past that number, the effort required to get a legendary really isn’t that much. Takes about 500 hours of play time to get.

Right now the only thing keeping people from making legendary weapons in mass is precursor and lodestone prices. Precursors will continue to rise in price until the average price to make one yourself is the same as the cost of the precursor. Right now the only precursors that actually reflect that price is Dawn, Dusk and The Lover. As people start going for their second and third legendaries some of the other precursors will start to rise in price as demand for them increases.

These communist suggestions of making everyone poor so you can have a precursor is sickening.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

None of the suggestions here are very good. Anet has stated that their target is for 5% of the population to get legendaries. We are probably already past that number, the effort required to get a legendary really isn’t that much. Takes about 500 hours of play time to get.

Right now the only thing keeping people from making legendary weapons in mass is precursor and lodestone prices. Precursors will continue to rise in price until the average price to make one yourself is the same as the cost of the precursor. Right now the only precursors that actually reflect that price is Dawn, Dusk and The Lover. As people start going for their second and third legendaries some of the other precursors will start to rise in price as demand for them increases.

These communist suggestions of making everyone poor so you can have a precursor is sickening.

That last sentence sent my troll filter off the scale.
May I ask that, if you are going to claim percentages and other raw numbers (hours played) that you back those up by links to Arenanet quotes? Thanks.

jaka.9635:

i would suggest making the precursor easy to obtain, but make other parts of the legendary process harder. Also each ingredient should be account bound, so that you cant simply buy mats from the TP. Perhaps there shouldnt be ingreedients but achievements that would award you with a part of the recipe.

Not easy perhaps, but in general I agree.. the precursor should serve as more of motivation to keep grinding the rest of the legendary, rather then serving as the final nearly obtainable step.

The way precursor is added currently is bad, the more popular precursors have such a high demand vs supply that the gold price of the item is going up more per day then even some power gamers such as myself can gather.

Sadly I do not agree with mf giving tokens, mf is about gambling tbh.

Personally I really like the idea of achivements giving you parts of the precursor, I feel it is a big mistake to have your chance at getting it based on your wealth rather then what you accomplish.

Gaudrath.6725:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Gaudrath.6725:

Then you approach the kind of percentages that currently exist with RNG, thus keeping legendaries rare and rewarding only those who are skilled enough.

Thanks for your comment.
Unfortunately I disagree with the quoted statement in that, with the current system, player skill has nothing at all to do with obtaining a precursor. It is pure luck based for most players, those unfortunate enough to enjoy the game content and not powertrade every minute played. The suggestion merely gives this luck based part of the legendary crafting process a hard cap.

I’ve also read through various posts you’ve recently made regarding precursors and it seems you feel very strongly about legendary weapon exclusivity. While I appreciate this and feel that many will agree that the legendary weapons system is severely flawed from a player skill perspective, it deserves a thread in its own right and it will not add anything to the topic being discussed here.

My statement was meant to say that RNG right now is keeping legendaries rare. Which it does. It doesn’t reward skill, if you wanted to reward skill, your system must be harsh enough so that the RNG maintained levels of rarity are not disturbed.

Reading other suggestions here, I get a strong feeling people just want handouts.

Ah, gotcha.

As for people wanting hand-outs: I’m sure lots of people do. However, they fail to see the big picture. What kind of accomplishment do you get from something handed to you? What do you do afterwards? Complain about the difficulty of the next item?

No. The focus of this discussion is to try and keep the system we currently have (flawed or otherwise) intact while offering a safety net to those who are extremely unlucky in the forge.

I don’t have any numbers (obviously) but, for most people getting the precursor currently it probably doesn’t cost as much as 400g (as an example) on average. We have loads of threads where people claim that they received theirs in the first few tries or at under 50g spent etc. From this and conversations in-game it seems there are more lucky players than unlucky ones… This suggested fix will keep any unlucky one’s playing the forge / game by keeping the system difficult, but not impossible.

I’m curious why playing the auction house isn’t skill/intellegence based? Seriously, not everyone can do it and profit. It’s certainly more skill based than dropping money in a slot machine. Also, why penalize people that want to drop 100’s of dollars on gems to get there? Is it somehow hurting peoples pride to have some shmo turning gems into gold to get one?

I work hard for my money and I’m a skilled professional, if i would choose to dump 500 bucks into anets pockets, why should i be penalized?

I’m not doing these things, but, I am playing devil’s advocate here. I just don’t think limiting choices for people is a good idea. The current system seems fine beyond the precursor deal, which is all the more reason people really need to be able to buy them.

I’d be fine with not being able to sell legendaries (i would actually prefer that), but I refuse to see how pulling precursors off the market is in anyway a good idea.

I’m lazily approaching a bi-frost and I do here and there gamble (mostly with runes i loot), but i’m not dumping my fortunes into a slot machine when i can easily just buy it (i.e. with real world cash or playing the auction house).

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Fiontar.4695:

SNIP.

Some very very good ideas here. Unfortunately most of this will require a major time investment from Arenanet so the chances of us ever seeing anything like this is probably extremely small. Also, even with a gold sink as described it would not even begin to compare to the current gold/item sink we have in game. It may become viable when more ascended gear comes onto the scene, requiring even more ectos to be disposed of. It seems like its a very delicate balancing act, trying to keep the economy in check while keeping your player base happy…

I don’t think it would take nearly as much development time as the Scavenger hunt they are talking about. Also, remember that purchasing a Precursor off the TP is not much of a gold sink. There is the 15% cut, but essentially it’s just taking money from one unlucky player and giving it to a lucky player or big money market speculator. An alternative money sink related to the MF, to compensate for the money sink provided by the TP “cut”, would really be preferable.

The idea of allowing the precursors to be sold on the TP was probably related to the desire to fuel cash for gems for gold transactions. However, the cost of precursors has really put that out of reach for 99.9% of the player base and, IMO, no respectable AAA MMO should seek to encourage any player to drop $300+ on a virtual item. Never. (Besides, the current prices almost certainly are fueling illegitimate gold purchases that wouldn’t have occurred otherwise).

I want to reply to another point made by another poster as well. Having a predefined, time commitment alternative to acquiring precursors will not lead to everyone having a Legendary. Most players are just not going to devote the time, gold and energy into a long, expensive process. MMOs have often had some elite status symbol items that can only be required with much effort and even when the path to acquisition is pretty clear, those items still remain rare in the populace, because most people just care to bother with a process they don’t see as being anything other than a virtual job.

The more we can move away from the RNG the more enjoyable the “grind” will be, but then this wouldn’t be GW2.

I probably differ from a lot of other players in that I feel Legendaries are something that every player should have the chance to achieve within reasonable effort during their lifetime in GW2. (My frame of reference is that a casual player who plays an hour or two each day should be able to gain a Legendary within a year or two. I see Legendaries as a true long-term goal, not something a player earns within a few months. Of course, diehard players will be able to obtain one much sooner if they really put their minds to it.)

To that end, I support ANet’s stated goal of putting in a “scavenger hunt” method to obtain a Precursor, but I would tie it to specific achievements instead of gathering tokens. One should be handed out as a reward for doing ALL of the following:

1. Complete your Personal Story
2. Complete at least 20 Slayer achievements
3. Defeat a number of unique bosses throughout the game world (the Shadow Behemoth in Queensdale, the Fire Elemental in Thaumanova Reactor, the Blood Witkittenessex Hills, the Champion Karka in Southsun Cove, the three Dragon champions, among others)
4. Complete the Weapon Master achievement in the weapon of your choice

After all that is complete, you travel to the Dominion of Winds where you are granted an audience with a Tengu Elder Sensei, who challenges you to a special duel (instanced, so you have to do this alone). Defeat her, and she deems you worthy to wield a Precursor weapon that matches the Weapon Master achievement you have completed. To help preserve scarcity, this scavenger hunt can only be completed once per account.

I think all that would be worthy of granting a player a Precursor, and it would be a lot more memorable (and fun!) than simply grinding gold on the TP or throwing items into the MF.

1) Completing the Personal Storyline sends you on a quest to find an Ancient Blacksmith.

2) Talking to the Ancient Blacksmith, he tells you he can forge you a Precursor, but you’ll need to bring him the components to work with.

3) First component is Orichalcum for Swords, Guns ect, and Ancient Wood for Bows, Staves ect. However, given the nature of the precursors, and the amount of power the need to absorb, they first need to be ‘treated’.

4) Dull Shards are what will be used to combine with the base material to prepare them. However, these need to be prepared, since they don’t contain any nature of power to do with the Legendary. This is where lore comes in to determine how you ‘charge’ the shards.

Using Twilight as an example, this was Grenth’s sword during the battle with Dwayna. Therefore, you need to take these Shards to Orr during the Grenth event, and allow yourself to be hit with a specific debuff (Entered Grenth’s Realm). Killing a Shade will then charge one Shard into a Dusk Shard.

5) You need to take these Dusk Shards and Orichalcum Ore to Mount Maelstrom to the pool of lava, to combine them into Dusk Ingots (1 Shard + 1 Ore = 1 Ingot). This is the first component for precursors requiring metal. For Ancient Wood, you need to combine the [Prefix] Shard with Ancient Wood planks to create [Prefix] Planks. 50 of these will be needed, and make up the first component.

6) Second component are Obsidian Shards. X amount of these will be needed.

7) Third component is the inscription you with the Legendary to have (stats). 5 of these are needed.

Take all of these components to the Ancient Blacksmith, and he’ll forge you an account bound dull precursor.

I’d say have a similar process with the Legendary weapons as well:

• Materials, as they are, can’t be used because they can’t handle the power. This requires you to undertake tasks to ‘prepare’ them.
• Depending on the lore behind the weapon will dictate how you create these materials.
• The Legendary will require you to visit all over Tyria including JP, Mini-Dungeons, Participation in Meta Events with the precursor equipped ect.
• Reduce the generic Resources needed (Lodestones, Ore ect), and replace with Achievements, or add additional clauses (i.e., Dungeon Gifts only become available for purchase after completing Story and all 3 paths, and requires all of the Gifts, as opposed to just one.)
• Combining the pre-cursor with all of these materials will forge a Prepared [precursor]
• The last stage is what will add the effect, and will be dictated by lore. Taking Dusk and Twilight as an example, in order to imbue Dusk into Twilight, you need to pray at Grenth’s temple, and defeat The Remnant of Grenth (spooky, huh), which will prove your worth for the weapon.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

None of the suggestions here are very good. Anet has stated that their target is for 5% of the population to get legendaries. We are probably already past that number, the effort required to get a legendary really isn’t that much. Takes about 500 hours of play time to get.

Right now the only thing keeping people from making legendary weapons in mass is precursor and lodestone prices. Precursors will continue to rise in price until the average price to make one yourself is the same as the cost of the precursor. Right now the only precursors that actually reflect that price is Dawn, Dusk and The Lover. As people start going for their second and third legendaries some of the other precursors will start to rise in price as demand for them increases.

These communist suggestions of making everyone poor so you can have a precursor is sickening.

That last sentence sent my troll filter off the scale.
May I ask that, if you are going to claim percentages and other raw numbers (hours played) that you back those up by links to Arenanet quotes? Thanks.

That last sentence actually reflects my feelings entirely. Some people want everyone to be poor. Equal sharing of misery means no one is special. Communism at its best. I do not agree.
Precursors are fine as they are. Forced lowering of prices, such as through vendors, is just an envious way to hurt people who gambled on them and want to make a small profit. If you want one … Mystic forge is that way ==>

TheDaiBish.9735:

Precursor plan

hide spoiler

1) Completing the Personal Storyline sends you on a quest to find an Ancient Blacksmith.

2) Talking to the Ancient Blacksmith, he tells you he can forge you a Precursor, but you’ll need to bring him the components to work with.

3) First component is Orichalcum for Swords, Guns ect, and Ancient Wood for Bows, Staves ect. However, given the nature of the precursors, and the amount of power the need to absorb, they first need to be ‘treated’.

4) Dull Shards are what will be used to combine with the base material to prepare them. However, these need to be prepared, since they don’t contain any nature of power to do with the Legendary. This is where lore comes in to determine how you ‘charge’ the shards.

Using Twilight as an example, this was Grenth’s sword during the battle with Dwayna. Therefore, you need to take these Shards to Orr during the Grenth event, and allow yourself to be hit with a specific debuff (Entered Grenth’s Realm). Killing a Shade will then charge one Shard into a Dusk Shard.

5) You need to take these Dusk Shards and Orichalcum Ore to Mount Maelstrom to the pool of lava, to combine them into Dusk Ingots (1 Shard + 1 Ore = 1 Ingot). This is the first component for precursors requiring metal. For Ancient Wood, you need to combine the [Prefix] Shard with Ancient Wood planks to create [Prefix] Planks. 50 of these will be needed, and make up the first component.

6) Second component are Obsidian Shards. X amount of these will be needed.

7) Third component is the inscription you with the Legendary to have (stats). 5 of these are needed.

Take all of these components to the Ancient Blacksmith, and he’ll forge you an account bound dull precursor.

I’d say have a similar process with the Legendary weapons as well:

• Materials, as they are, can’t be used because they can’t handle the power. This requires you to undertake tasks to ‘prepare’ them.
• Depending on the lore behind the weapon will dictate how you create these materials.
• The Legendary will require you to visit all over Tyria including JP, Mini-Dungeons, Participation in Meta Events with the precursor equipped ect.
• Reduce the generic Resources needed (Lodestones, Ore ect), and replace with Achievements, or add additional clauses (i.e., Dungeon Gifts only become available for purchase after completing Story and all 3 paths, and requires all of the Gifts, as opposed to just one.)
• Combining the pre-cursor with all of these materials will forge a Prepared [precursor]
• The last stage is what will add the effect, and will be dictated by lore. Taking Dusk and Twilight as an example, in order to imbue Dusk into Twilight, you need to pray at Grenth’s temple, and defeat The Remnant of Grenth (spooky, huh), which will prove your worth for the weapon.

This makes me want to go after a precursor. (provided I get to keep and use my already-attained gifts)

^ This. Legendary weapons should be another epic story/lore based goal. Not just an RNG-DR-GRINDFEST.

This IMO would set GW2 appart from all the other major MMOs.

I agree. gimme meh dusk.

i would like them to change the legendary system into a grand adventure of quests and battles,Something more skill based, not money based. Not months of farming (only to get squat) and trying to play Trade Wars 2.

As I said before, the above “solution” has only two outcomes.

1. Everyone and their dog and their dog’s fleas has a legendary.
2. The system is actually so hard skill-wise that 99% of players can’t even hope to get a legendary.

In either case much crying would ensue.

Since when is the only way to get a pre-cursor trough the Mystic Forge? It never was. Since day one, you can loot pre cursors from all chests after an Orr Temple event, or after the Claw of Jormag battle. After Mid-November the drop rate got buffed, it is now possible to find it in any JP Chest, Shatterer, Tequatl & Claw chest and still in all Orr Temple chests. It even drops in WvW as regular loot! Srsly, before you go whine about how many gold you have already wasted to try to get your precursor in MF, go outside LA, do events, play WvW, and you might be lucky.
Tho I’m not 100% happy with the current pre-cursor system as well, a (long) Scavenger Hunt would indeed be the best way to improve it.

Gaudrath.6725:

As I said before, the above “solution” has only two outcomes.

1. Everyone and their dog and their dog’s fleas has a legendary.
2. The system is actually so hard skill-wise that 99% of players can’t even hope to get a legendary.

In either case much crying would ensue.

I think there should be skill parts to the process, personally:

• If that person wants a Legendary, then they’ll work on improving their skill to pass that roadblock.

Gaudrath.6725:

As I said before, the above “solution” has only two outcomes.

1. Everyone and their dog and their dog’s fleas has a legendary.
2. The system is actually so hard skill-wise that 99% of players can’t even hope to get a legendary.

In either case much crying would ensue.

actually

1. Everyone and theyr dog and theyr dog’s fleas has a precursor, and some are motivated to farm the remaining 75% of the legendary.

I don’t get where people got this insane notion from that once you get the precursor you already got the legendary, it is as far from the truth as it could possibly be.

The only thing handing out completly free precursors would change is this.

1: 25% of the legendary grind would be cut.
2: The prices of the remaining 75% of the grind would increase as a result of more people being motivated to grind it.

overall not a whole lot would change in regards to the difficulty of getting the legendary, the diffrence is no mather how expensive materials you need 250 of, you can always buy one and one and slowly work your way towards the legendary.

The current implentation of the precursor does nothing but act as a block for people who want the legendary, but can’t possibly spend 6+ hours per day grinding the same dungeon just to keep up with inflation, infact I would go so far as to say that the current implentation is the exact opposite of what i imagine the precursors was ment to be.

If it was not there to serve as a motivator to keep on grinding the rest of your legendary, then it really never served a purpose to begin with.

That said I personally disagree with this idea as a fix, and I do belive precursor should take alot of work to get, but it should not be near unobtainable trough reasonable means, which alot of the precursors are atm.

They should just make it so you need 5 gifts of _ (2500 tokens) from each dungeon to get a precursor of your choice. It’s actually pretty reasonable because 2500 tokens from each dungeon actually take quite some time to get.

I have had an easy fix to the precursor issue for a while now just never really talked about it.

Add precursor parts to dungeon tokens and 4 different parts are required in order to make a precursor. Make precursors require parts from different dungeons this will bring the community back into the older dungeons. Also giving a chance for these precursor parts to drop in chests in said dungeons on story and/or explore mode would make it so people would be more willing to help lowbies complete story modes allowing newer guild wars 2 players to get better experiences.

Dungeon tokens are already in place and due to the uniqueness of each dungeon you could revolve certain precursors around certain dungeons. Also this would get people out of fractals and into the older dungeons more often as i only ever see people running CoF and if not that then fractals.

So overall formula would be this

Precursor= 4 precursor fragments

Precursor fragment= 500 tokens of w/e dungeon needed(500 is a placeholder of course that number would need work)

Take 4 fragments put them in the Mystic Forge and you get the Precursor you were going after or you could just do a merchant but that wouldn’t feel like you were putting together an awesome weapon just buying it.

Of course the numbers would have to be worked out overall by Anet but i think this would be a good system to not only allow players to actually Work(not hope to get a precursor as it is right now) towards their Precursor but also get people back into older dungeons.

Riselight.3695:

Since when is the only way to get a pre-cursor trough the Mystic Forge? It never was. Since day one, you can loot pre cursors from all chests after an Orr Temple event, or after the Claw of Jormag battle. After Mid-November the drop rate got buffed, it is now possible to find it in any JP Chest, Shatterer, Tequatl & Claw chest and still in all Orr Temple chests. It even drops in WvW as regular loot! Srsly, before you go whine about how many gold you have already wasted to try to get your precursor in MF, go outside LA, do events, play WvW, and you might be lucky.
Tho I’m not 100% happy with the current pre-cursor system as well, a (long) Scavenger Hunt would indeed be the best way to improve it.

This isn’t true, not even close. The karka chest got an increased drop rate, that’s the only time it happened. I do everything you’ve mentioned multiple times a week and i’m usually lucky to see a few rares in a day, let alone an exotic. You almost make it sound like it drops from the sky if you pray hard enough to dwayna. You can easily tell based on hard data off the auction house. Post karka event i could get the lover for a bit over 90g (or even 128g) it’s now over 600g, that only tells you the drop rate is extremely low based on hard numbers.