Guild Wars 2

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Guild Wars 2? E-sport material? yes or no?
dungeon focused to improve cash shop revenue or E-sport in the making?

opinions are great and I would love to hear your opinion, facts would be nice if you could present your argument with citations and references that would be great,- even links to support your assertions would be welcome.

I don’t know where this game is going but I remember Arenanet Employees saying they wanted it to be an E-sport game… I have not heard anything recently to support that (anything since the game was released).

we have some big content patches in the next few months and I am hoping they are good content patches from ARENANET.

As far as I know, people are already expressing -with reasons- how much a single-player of an mmorpg this game feels like.

I don’t know how that would even come close to a definition of an e-sport.

projectcedric.6951:

As far as I know, people are already expressing -with reasons- how much a single-player of an mmorpg this game feels like.

I don’t know how that would even come close to a definition of an e-sport.

ya the single player thingie is good and bad… i really do have fun playing with friends in this game or randomly helping other players- I guess other people feel this way too because i have certainly been rescued in hard fights by the kindness of random strangers who happened to be passing by lol

I was just wondering if Arenanet still wants this game to be an E-sport and if they are still promoting it to be an E-sport or have they totally shifted their goals.

I like the pve (and don’t see how dungeon focus is meant to increase cash shop revenues?) but if Anet still wants the pvp to become an esport then it will need a serious improvement. At the moment it feels like the pvp scene is all but dead and I suspect it will take more than just a few patch changes to fix it.

No chance of e-sport while PVP zones still have downed state IMO.

Not a chance lol.

mjharrison.3209:

No chance of e-sport while PVP zones still have downed state IMO.

you mean “any” downed state- or just the current implementation?

I sort of like the downed state because it just adds another layer of strategy. It’s true that it is too easy for some situations to raise players… but so far we only have one style of play on a limited number of maps. There’s more variations for Fractals of the Mists than there are PvP maps

nofo.8469:

Not a chance lol.

Is there any chance you will elaborate?

I, for one, am interested in what your reasoning is for your opinion.

Mahaedros.7085:

nofo.8469:

Not a chance lol.

Is there any chance you will elaborate?

I, for one, am interested in what your reasoning is for your opinion.

SPvP isn’t very popular because the majority do not find it fun to play.

If the majority do not find it fun to play how is it supposed to be fun to watch?

I doubt it. If the downed state was identical for each profession, then it might work.

Elementalists had the worst downed state on release, making them an easy choice for first kill. Then a very lazy change by ArenaNet (swapping Vapor Form and Grasping Earth) completely changed that. And even 4 months after release, the Elementalist is still plagued with bugs. I suspect the other professions are as well.

Also, who would be the audience? The casual GW2 sPvP players? Many of them aren’t even playing anymore, due to the lack of 1v1 balance where bunkers and spikers are concerned. The amount of dead servers in the hot join browser is proof that people are losing interest.

Also, many people are waiting for the PvP patch in February. I suspect if it doesn’t deliver then even more will walk away. This means monthly tournaments, custom servers and a ladder system all need to be added. Paids need a lot of attention as well, the cost is insulting and the queuing times are suffering as a result. Greed dominates.

nofo.8469:

Mahaedros.7085:

nofo.8469:

Not a chance lol.

Is there any chance you will elaborate?

I, for one, am interested in what your reasoning is for your opinion.

SPvP isn’t very popular because the majority do not find it fun to play.

If the majority do not find it fun to play how is it supposed to be fun to watch?

well ya they only have “capture the point” at the moment since release and after five years of development they could not predict that only having one style (capture the point) of Spvp would not be popular?

did something happen that they haven’t told us about their goal to be an e-sport? has the goal to be an e-sport been abandoned?

Zantetsuken.9051:

I doubt it. If the downed state was identical for each profession, then it might work.

Elementalists had the worst downed state on release, making them an easy choice for first kill. Then a very lazy change by ArenaNet (swapping Vapor Form and Grasping Earth) completely changed that. And even 4 months after release, the Elementalist is still plagued with bugs. I suspect the other professions are as well.

Also, who would be the audience? The casual GW2 sPvP players? Many of them aren’t even playing anymore, due to the lack of 1v1 balance where bunkers and spikers are concerned. The amount of dead servers in the hot join browser is proof that people are losing interest.

Also, many people are waiting for the PvP patch in February. I suspect if it doesn’t deliver then even more will walk away. This means monthly tournaments, custom servers and a ladder system all need to be added. Paids need a lot of attention as well, the cost is insulting and the queuing times are suffering as a result. Greed dominates.

very good points- I leveled two other professions to 80 since I wasn’t having fun on my Elementalist (who was my first 80…)

is this February patch going to focus on their drive to be an e-sport ? or has arenanet given up on GW2 becoming an e-sport?

I used to hear a lot about them wanting GW2 to be an e-sport but haven’t hear anything lately at all.

I have no idea about their commitment to E-Sports, but the Feb patch is supposed to be a PvP patch. They haven’t given any details yet though. If all we get is another map and some other fluff, then I don’t fancy their chances much :P

Zantetsuken.9051:

I have no idea about their commitment to E-Sports, but the Feb patch is supposed to be a PvP patch. They haven’t given any details yet though. If all we get is another map and some other fluff, then I don’t fancy their chances much :P

well ya the game came out in August so there has been – depending on your view – limited focus on making GW2 an e-sport or a shift away on the focus that was stated as an intention to make GW2 an E-sport.

I guess we have to wait and see two months from now what Arenanet’s intention is as opposed to what they’ve said their intention is regarding making GW2 an e-sport.

Mahaedros.7085:

nofo.8469:

Mahaedros.7085:

nofo.8469:

Not a chance lol.

Is there any chance you will elaborate?

I, for one, am interested in what your reasoning is for your opinion.

SPvP isn’t very popular because the majority do not find it fun to play.

If the majority do not find it fun to play how is it supposed to be fun to watch?

well ya they only have “capture the point” at the moment since release and after five years of development they could not predict that only having one style (capture the point) of Spvp would not be popular?

did something happen that they haven’t told us about their goal to be an e-sport? has the goal to be an e-sport been abandoned?

Even if they add more gamemodes and such, the game still won’t be fun to watch because the combat is so shallow as it stands at the moment.

There is little in the way of spectator value in this game.

so do you think they aren’t even going to try to make it an e-sport?

it sounds like you’re saying it will never be fun to watch “even if they add more gamemodes and such…”

what I am trying to say is, I have not heard anything about them trying to promote it as an E-sport and, from what they’ve said before, they previously said they wanted to seriously promote it as an e-sport

i guess they wanted to implement grinding more than anything else they said they wanted to do with the game

no, not a a chance.

shochinhwa.1648:

no, not a a chance.

Is there any chance you will elaborate?
I, for one, am interested in what your reasoning is for your opinion.

Anything can happen, it depends on the determination and creativity of the developers as well as support from the community. I played LoL since near end of it’s beta. I would have never guessed it’d be as hugely popular as it is today. That is entirely because of the two factors I’ve stated.

I think the people saying “Oh definitely not, cause reasons” don’t really see how much a game can develop in a years time with an entire development team behind it. Or they’re just upset with how PvP currently is. I don’t really like it that much either, but I have every bit of confidence in Anet.

PvP and HotM needs a good amount of work Imo, but it can definitely happen. GW2 already has the player base.

Sprinkles.6748:

Anything can happen, it depends on the determination and creativity of the developers as well as support from the community. I played LoL since near end of it’s beta. I would have never guessed it’d be as hugely popular as it is today. That is entirely because of the two factors I’ve stated.

I think the people saying “Oh definitely not, cause reasons” don’t really see how much a game can develop in a years time with an entire development team behind it. Or they’re just upset with how PvP currently is. I don’t really like it that much either, but I have every bit of confidence in Anet.

PvP and HotM needs a good amount of work Imo, but it can definitely happen. GW2 already has the player base.

A good chunk of the PvP players have left this game already.

Yes, it is doable, but extremely unlikely, the amount of resources it would take to make SPvP e-sport viable would be insane.

Other MMOs with far tighter balance, far larger following and far more resources have failed at entering the esports scene, its not exactly easy.

If Anet manages to do it, hats off to them, but I wouldn’t get your hopes up.

Sprinkles.6748:

Anything can happen, it depends on the determination and creativity of the developers as well as support from the community… I don’t really like it that much either, but I have every bit of confidence in Anet.

PvP and HotM needs a good amount of work Imo, but it can definitely happen. GW2 already has the player base.

has Anet said anything recently or done anything recently to lead you to believe that they will do something in the near future to promote GW2 as an e-sport? in your opinion

Mahaedros.7085:

has Anet said anything recently or done anything recently to lead you to believe that they will do something in the near future to promote GW2 as an e-sport? in your opinion

They haven’t said a thing about improvements, or balance, or the thief issue and to be blunt I doubt they will do anything in the near future. I get the impression that Anet is pretty happy with the product they’ve put out despite what players tell them constantly.

Zantetsuken.9051:

I have no idea about their commitment to E-Sports, but the Feb patch is supposed to be a PvP patch. They haven’t given any details yet though. If all we get is another map and some other fluff, then I don’t fancy their chances much :P

From what I’ve seen/heard in an interview with Anet employees it’s not a PVP patch but a WvW patch.

To the OP: Read the most recent article (isn’t it?) on sPVP: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/structured-pvp-iceberg/

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

They haven’t said a thing about improvements, or balance, or the thief issue and to be blunt I doubt they will do anything in the near future. I get the impression that Anet is pretty happy with the product they’ve put out despite what players tell them constantly.

Read the article

Mahaedros.7085:

Sprinkles.6748:

Anything can happen, it depends on the determination and creativity of the developers as well as support from the community… I don’t really like it that much either, but I have every bit of confidence in Anet.

PvP and HotM needs a good amount of work Imo, but it can definitely happen. GW2 already has the player base.

has Anet said anything recently or done anything recently to lead you to believe that they will do something in the near future to promote GW2 as an e-sport? in your opinion

Not really since the whole tip of the iceberg thing and around patch days when they explain their intentions. But how much time has it really been?

Doesn’t really matter to me whether it becomes a full fledged Esport or not. That just usually means tons of wannabe fans and extremely stuck up “pro” players. GW1 had tons of awesome pvp content. No reason why that couldn’t have been one besides the fact it didn’t have that huge following. Like I said, I’m confident in the ability of the developer. Which isn’t the only thing that comes into factor with esports.

I dont see this game becoming an esport. I find the 3 daily games for the achievement a chore already because its so boring and unbalanced.

The problem is not the number of arenas or even disbalances. The link you gave, shows Anet thinks in WoW direction. But WoW never been an e-sport, and it can’t be one. For e-sport you need competitive game play, which almost lack in GW2. What we have here – no specific class functions. There is no clear tank, damage dealer or healer. So you don’t need a team in fact. This makes that game very good for 1vs1 PvP. But, and I have no idea why, Anet doesn’t implemented such a mode, and seems has no plans to do it. The way, sPvP is made now, shows very retrograde thinking. Teams fight for points in small area, making the same things /capturing points/ over and over again. After few hours it becomes boring. The idea is clear – to take a spot shall be equal to make a good shot in basket – but it’s not. The future of e-sports is they will become closer to real ones. PvP is not basketball or football, it’s a fight. So Anet shall look at sports like american football, fencing and boxing.

I think that Jonathon Sharp has the most recent statements on how ANet views becoming an eSport. Summing up, it’s a long term goal, but they think there are things they need to put in place before they’re really ready:

Interview Video 12/1/2012

This game? No.

Mahaedros.7085:

mjharrison.3209:

No chance of e-sport while PVP zones still have downed state IMO.

you mean “any” downed state- or just the current implementation?

I sort of like the downed state because it just adds another layer of strategy. It’s true that it is too easy for some situations to raise players… but so far we only have one style of play on a limited number of maps. There’s more variations for Fractals of the Mists than there are PvP maps

How is dying a strategy? IO can’t see any condition where this would work, especially in competitive environments.

Even if they do, it will never draw professional players. GW2 is just too simplistic, without any real elements of skill or teamwork. Esport games like Warcraft / Starcraft are both focused on an individual player with incredible micro-talent. Things like League are very teamwork oriented. WoW arena’s probably work because there are a large amount of spells and talents, and using them actually has some kind of impact on the battle.

I just don’t see how you could incorporate running around in a zerg of 200people using 10 utility skills as an E-sport. Maybe like rugby? Just have two zergs rush into each other and see who wins.

Sky.4356:

I just don’t see how you could incorporate running around in a zerg of 200people using 10 utility skills as an E-sport. Maybe like rugby? Just have two zergs rush into each other and see who wins.

Um…. You know that the eSport discussions don’t focus on WvWvW but on sPvP… right?

Sky.4356:

I just don’t see how you could incorporate running around in a zerg of 200people using 10 utility skills as an E-sport. Maybe like rugby? Just have two zergs rush into each other and see who wins.

I think you misunderstood a bit, the eSports aspect of Guild Wars 2 is sPVP not WvW, WvW will never be anything like an eSport, only sPVP has the potential to become an eSport.

Was just a litle stab at the endgame PVE
My main point there is that the spells don’t have any depth to them. Small scale fights to me just feel boring.

IMO this game needs arenas, it needs something that will bring back the pvpers it once had….many that left dont dislike the class system and how it functions in pvp but dislike the game modes we were givien, also Arenas are much easier and entertaining to watch on stream

Mindx.9610:

IMO this game needs arenas, it needs something that will bring back the pvpers it once had….many that left dont dislike the class system and how it functions in pvp but dislike the game modes we were givien, also Arenas are much easier and entertaining to watch on stream

Imagine an arena match 5 bunkers vs 5 bunkers, how long would that take? :P

The chances of 2 5v5 full defence team…….either way i meant 3v3’s

Zeldain.5710:

Mahaedros.7085:

mjharrison.3209:

No chance of e-sport while PVP zones still have downed state IMO.

you mean “any” downed state- or just the current implementation?

I sort of like the downed state because it just adds another layer of strategy. It’s true that it is too easy for some situations to raise players… but so far we only have one style of play on a limited number of maps. There’s more variations for Fractals of the Mists than there are PvP maps

How is dying a strategy? IO can’t see any condition where this would work, especially in competitive environments.

it’s another layer of strategy in a make believe video game…

if you want to be realistic, go out and have a gun fight with someone, shoot them in the leg. If they get help from another person and manage to stand up and shoot back at you…

yes, I know we are talking about a game with magic and swords and etc… I don’t see how that 2nd chance at getting a revive from a TEAMMATE disqualifies GW2’s PvP from being a competitive PvP game. The rules are exactly the same for each team and for every player.

you’re not dead unless you’re eliminated for good while in the down state, you have a chance to be saved(by your team mostly) if you take enough damage to go down

“How is dying a strategy? IO can’t see any condition where this would work, especially in competitive environments.”

right- it’s not the actual dying that is the strategy, it’s another layer added to the game. If you are fighting 2v2 and you down one of the other team’s players, you want to ensure that that downed player does not get revived by his teammate- you have to know what skills to use to prevent that from happening. Your opponent can use skills to revive his teammate and block your particular strategy. It’s more than just pew pew.

Games have specific rules that vary- everyone can learn the rules and the people who are able to think fast and execute the right decisions will achieve victory.

I’m sorry if you don’t like the downed state- would you be more comfortable if someone was casting a magic spell to heal you before you died? Healers are just as unrealistic as the downed state- you just have to play by the particular rules of the game you happen to be playing.

now that you and I have expressed our opinions, I still wonder if Anet is pushing this game as an E-sport. To be honest, I have no idea what their plans are for Guild Wars 2 after november 15th.

Mahaedros.7085:

nofo.8469:

Not a chance lol.

Is there any chance you will elaborate?

I, for one, am interested in what your reasoning is for your opinion.

I’ll give you my reason why not.

1. sPvP is the only place it has a shot to be an e-sport.

2. SPvP was under developed out of the gate, that is when it had to be spot on to be an e-sport. You can’t fix it a year later and then all of a sudden look at the game again as the next big thing. It had to come out of the oven ready for e-sport prime time to gain mass acceptance in this manner. That ship has sailed.

3. Game does too many things, to be an e-sport it needed to focus heavily on sPvP, it did not.

Those are three things that LoL had from the start, those are the key elements.

Not only talking about balancing professions out, sPvP is not really competitive to me. Unless we see a specific format (specific professions with specific build) just as Team Fortress 2, I can’t think of this game going into the competitive scene.

Right now I believe the game mechanics are quite poor for the sPvP to be interesting. Not that I don’t have fun at it but just that it’s a mess.
Maybe that comes from my 4y experience in DotA…

Horrorscope.7632:

Mahaedros.7085:

nofo.8469:

Not a chance lol.

Is there any chance you will elaborate?

I, for one, am interested in what your reasoning is for your opinion.

I’ll give you my reason why not.

1. sPvP is the only place it has a shot to be an e-sport.

2. SPvP was under developed out of the gate, that is when it had to be spot on to be an e-sport. You can’t fix it a year later and then all of a sudden look at the game again as the next big thing. It had to come out of the oven ready for e-sport prime time to gain mass acceptance in this manner. That ship has sailed.

3. Game does too many things, to be an e-sport it needed to focus heavily on sPvP, it did not.

Those are three things that LoL had from the start, those are the key elements.

I agree with you brother especially when you say: " SPvP was under developed out of the gate, that is when it had to be spot on to be an e-sport."

there’s still an outside chance Anet could pull it off if they really implement something spectacular with new styles of maps with Spvp or whatever…

compare the current guild wars 2 Spvp to this video from GW1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ur142qRR0

I never played guild wars 1…but this type of pvp seems more appealing- it would be nice to have some guild vs guild competitions

“So when we say we’ll show something “when it’s ready,” we really mean it. We don’t want to talk about it until we’re ready to show it, because it may change. "

The way we see it, Guild Wars 2 sPvP may be shipped, but it’s far from finished.
-Jonathan “Chaplan” Sharp

The above is from the link posted. Personally, I can’t resolve the contradiction.

The pvp in this game is just not fun for me, too much emphasis on burst/bunker and the downed state is irritating.

The cost to enter paid matches is excessive, and not even worth consideration based on the mechanics of the game.

Five years of development and this is all we have atm. One type of match, that is boring and I’d rather watch Oprah.

Corporation greed with prices and bad pvp is a not a good combination.

maddoctor.2738:

To the OP: Read the most recent article (isn’t it?) on sPVP: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/structured-pvp-iceberg/

That article is almost 3 months old and much has happened since, including the November 15 patch.

Godorn.2931:

“So when we say we’ll show something “when it’s ready,” we really mean it. We don’t want to talk about it until we’re ready to show it, because it may change. "

The way we see it, Guild Wars 2 sPvP may be shipped, but it’s far from finished.
-Jonathan “Chaplan” Sharp

The above is from the link posted. Personally, I can’t resolve the contradiction.

The contradiction is called human imperfection and decision-making under stress. Pretty sure that we all contradict ourselves in this way, at times. I can’t think of many fields of judgment standards (ethics, etc…) that don’t have complexities beyond “here’s the rule and we always follow it.” And corporations have more people so usually that means more contradiction.

Too much imbalance and too many bugs in this game atm. However if you look at early WoW… there was a lot of balance/bug issues there as well.

GW2 not having any subscription fees also means that if they do fix things… the players can just come back.

On the other hand MMO’s seem to be coming out far more regularly now than they were back in the early WoW days. People may wind up just moving on.

So overall… IMO probably not, but feb will be a large determining factor in this.

Does no one follow the dev interviews and livestreams? Whether or not it’ll be a flop the dev team is actively working on implementing e sport features such as custom arenas and spectator mode.

I would love for GW2 to be an Esport. PvP is set up to be skills based already. For me matches would be fun and exciting to watch. The pro-builds would certainly shift flavor of the month a lot but so be it.

NetherDiver.6079:

Does no one follow the dev interviews and livestreams? Whether or not it’ll be a flop the dev team is actively working on implementing e sport features such as custom arenas and spectator mode.

ya i followed the dev interviews and livestreams and even the manifesto -prime reasons why I bought the game.

Does anyone follow the dev interviews and livestreams after Nov 15?

Mahaedros.7085:

NetherDiver.6079:

Does no one follow the dev interviews and livestreams? Whether or not it’ll be a flop the dev team is actively working on implementing e sport features such as custom arenas and spectator mode.

ya i followed the dev interviews and livestreams and even the manifesto -prime reasons why I bought the game.

Does anyone follow the dev interviews and livestreams after Nov 15?

So… This is kind of funny, considering I’ve posted on in this thread and sent you the link to it in PM…. Unless of course you’ve got me blocked. He discusses specifically their plans for becoming an eSport.

JaironKalach.4938:

Godorn.2931:

“So when we say we’ll show something “when it’s ready,” we really mean it. We don’t want to talk about it until we’re ready to show it, because it may change. "

The way we see it, Guild Wars 2 sPvP may be shipped, but it’s far from finished.
-Jonathan “Chaplan” Sharp

The above is from the link posted. Personally, I can’t resolve the contradiction.

The contradiction is called human imperfection and decision-making under stress. Pretty sure that we all contradict ourselves in this way, at times. I can’t think of many fields of judgment standards (ethics, etc…) that don’t have complexities beyond “here’s the rule and we always follow it.” And corporations have more people so usually that means more contradiction.

yes it’s human to contradict one’s self at times but one would expect more from a corporation with a team of PR people on salary… judging from the whiteside redditt AMA though maybe they don’t have a PR team and are just winging it… ya that is what they want us to think.

I’d say, in the future, Arenanet, don’t let Nexon make you do those AMA’s on Reddit. At least not with the faux bad spelling and all. Just be professional and stop the B.S. manipulation, be professional. You know you’re going to be quoted so skip the Q&A and just do a professional press release. Often. Much more often than your current communication. We’d all love to hear from Areanet more.

but back on topic, he’s right. Ethics is one complicated field.

So it seems we’re not going to get an announcement that GW2 is no longer being developed to be an E-Sport.

JaironKalach.4938:

Mahaedros.7085:

NetherDiver.6079:

Does no one follow the dev interviews and livestreams? Whether or not it’ll be a flop the dev team is actively working on implementing e sport features such as custom arenas and spectator mode.

ya i followed the dev interviews and livestreams and even the manifesto -prime reasons why I bought the game.

Does anyone follow the dev interviews and livestreams after Nov 15?

So… This is kind of funny, considering I’ve posted on in this thread and sent you the link to it in PM…. Unless of course you’ve got me blocked. He discusses specifically their plans for becoming an eSport.

I’m sorry bro – thanks for sending the PM i don’t have you blocked but i see it now that you mentioned it

do you believe that they say?