Guild Wars 2

Sounds like mmorpgs are not for you because GW2 as the lightest version of what your complaining about in all mmorpgs.

No, you are wrong. I have played MMO’s since they were conceived and I have stuck with every single one I played longer than this before I got this bored.

YOUcan’t fail. Because YOU don’t have a purpose. Other than rolling about, hitting stuff, not being, hit by stuff and rezzing other players. You can’t be good at anything, because you have to be adequate at everything.

pricer.5091:

No, you are wrong. I have played MMO’s since they were conceived and I have stuck with every single one I played longer than this before I got this bored.

YOUcan’t fail. Because YOU don’t have a purpose. Other than rolling about, hitting stuff, not being, hit by stuff and rezzing other players. You can’t be good at anything, because you have to be adequate at everything.

I think your looking at things one way then on the other mmorpg what else have you played WoW? And you call GW2 grindly lol.
You can fail you can fail a lot. What parts of GW2 have you not tried? Every tried running the new AC or Ararh?

Yes, over and over again, many more times than I can even say. Did you even read my post or are you just flapping your chops?

And no, I have not just played WoW. I’ve been playing MMO’s for longer than some people have been alive.

pricer.5091:

Yes, over and over again, many more times than I can even say. Did you even read my post or are you just flapping your chops?

Because its not worth reading an manifesto size complain. They are all saying the same things over and over and each person who post them tends to not realize its been pointed out. You can make a stock response for general complains in this game.

Game not been out for that long… Mmorpg are made to be time sinks… Mmorpg have some level of things they can and cant do.. Having too many skills makes it a great deal harder to keep even for all classes… They are adding in more of every thing… Lag is part of playing online…

All i can think off of hand did i hit any of your points?

Go play TPvP, especially with a team. Your spec matters a lot there.

P.s. You might want to evidence your point a little better, as I have some problems grasping it. Are you saying that dungeons are too easy? Maybe for you, the majority of players thinks new AC is impossibru!

pricer, I am definitely NOT going to disagree with how you perceive the game. In a way, you are right.

But my version of fun does not really equate to “be-better-than-everyone-else.” I can understand people with highly competitive natures feeling that way, and I DO like a bit of competition (I played LoL for a while for instance).

But, Guild Wars 2 is really about being able to hop on and NOT be gated from MOST content. I can get on and hang out with friends I cannot go physically see. I don’t have to be frustrated due to griefing because there are very very few ways to actually do that in this game.

I don’t know what to tell you. It just sounds like this isn’t really the kind of game you want to be playing if you want to feel significantly better than other people.

But I can guarantee you that even though dodging and knowing dungeon mechanics are things that are fairly straight-forward and easy to master, the equivalent of “saving your group’s butt” in a difficult situation is the same as “teaching your group how to play this content.”

If you really want to feel like you’re doing the heavy lifting in a group, or saving your group’s skin, why don’t you try advertising for PuG’s that need some pointers.

Don’t worry about efficiency, or whatever, but actually use your skill to help other people. That seems like it would be more in-line with the philosophy of keeping your group’s head above the water.

But if you are looking for a game where you can be competitive instead of cooperative, this is not that game.

In fact, this game is probably the opposite of that game.

EDIT: I do want to say that I don’t play a LOT of SPVP. Maybe there’s some decent competition there (?), but wuvwuv just feels like you’re being sucked along a current in the middle of the ocean. You don’t really have a choice because if you leave that current, you either die or end up not really accomplishing anything.

Jski.6180:

Because its not worth reading an manifesto size complain. They are all saying the same things over and over and each person who post them tends to not realize its been pointed out. You can make a stock response for general complains in this game.

So, the answer is no, you didn’t read it. Therefore, you arguing about a point I didnt even make. Which is like gambling with no money. I don’t think the game is bad, I think there are some bad things about it

Jski.6180:

All i can think off of hand did i hit any of your points?

No, you didn’t. But if you keep posting the same response to what you perceive to be a complaint (which isn’t particularly) without reading it you will eventually make yourself look stupid.

I’ll summarise it for you:

Game = good (generally)

Skills / roles and traits = bad (generally)

soakman.7539:

pricer, I am definitely NOT going to disagree with how you perceive the game. In a way, you are right.

But my version of fun does not really equate to “be-better-than-everyone-else.” I can understand people with highly competitive natures feeling that way, and I DO like a bit of competition (I played LoL for a while for instance).

But, Guild Wars 2 is really about being able to hop on and NOT be gated from MOST content. I can get on and hang out with friends I cannot go physically see. I don’t have to be frustrated due to griefing because there are very very few ways to actually do that in this game.

I don’t know what to tell you. It just sounds like this isn’t really the kind of game you want to be playing if you want to feel significantly better than other people.

But I can guarantee you that even though dodging and knowing dungeon mechanics are things that are fairly straight-forward and easy to master, the equivalent of “saving your group’s butt” in a difficult situation is the same as “teaching your group how to play this content.”

If you really want to feel like you’re doing the heavy lifting in a group, or saving your group’s skin, why don’t you try advertising for PuG’s that need some pointers.

Don’t worry about efficiency, or whatever, but actually use your skill to help other people. That seems like it would be more in-line with the philosophy of keeping your group’s head above the water.

But if you are looking for a game where you can be competitive instead of cooperative, this is not that game.

In fact, this game is probably the opposite of that game.

EDIT: I do want to say that I don’t play a LOT of SPVP. Maybe there’s some decent competition there (?), but wuvwuv just feels like you’re being sucked along a current in the middle of the ocean. You don’t really have a choice because if you leave that current, you either die or end up not really accomplishing anything.

No I don’t want to be better than othe rpeople, thats not my point and Im sorry if it sounds like that. Im just saying that what you bring to a dungeon makes little difference…..theres not enough differentiation between what the classes do. I go do Lupicus on my thief, I’m ranged….I do it on my Warrior, I’m ranged. Hell, do it anything, I’m ranged. Guardian might throw in some heals, which in the scheme of things are very minor. Thief might rez a few folks using invisibility. My point is, it doesnt really matter which character I take..because they are all equally viable.

Honestly, I really think they only approached the trait/skill/role system the way they did because in GW1 particular classes had a very very hard time finding people to let them play with them because their “role” wasn’t useful for the particular instance/dungeon/questchain etc.

They wanted to avoid having people sitting in hubs spamming GLF monk, for literally 15-30 minutes at a time, and they wanted people to be able to spend more time playing than not.

How do you solve both problems? I really don’t know. But I think people want to min/max their roles, and ANET doesn’t want to make that a possibility because inevitably professions will become tiered for different roles and players will be gated out of content simply because they prefer one profession’s playstyle (in their not-optimal-role) over another.

I do agree with a lot of your points, but I can’t see any other option that will allow me to play nearly all the content on any class with any combo of my friends.

And to me, this is just simply more important than feeling like each class has its own niche role. Instead each has it’s own relatively interesting mechanism to do the same things other classes can do.

(ps I know they are professions, but I’m comparing them to/with GW1 at this point, so I’m using class to be clear.)

pricer.5091:

soakman.7539:

pricer, I am definitely NOT going to disagree with how you perceive the game. In a way, you are right.

But my version of fun does not really equate to “be-better-than-everyone-else.” I can understand people with highly competitive natures feeling that way, and I DO like a bit of competition (I played LoL for a while for instance).

But, Guild Wars 2 is really about being able to hop on and NOT be gated from MOST content. I can get on and hang out with friends I cannot go physically see. I don’t have to be frustrated due to griefing because there are very very few ways to actually do that in this game.

I don’t know what to tell you. It just sounds like this isn’t really the kind of game you want to be playing if you want to feel significantly better than other people.

But I can guarantee you that even though dodging and knowing dungeon mechanics are things that are fairly straight-forward and easy to master, the equivalent of “saving your group’s butt” in a difficult situation is the same as “teaching your group how to play this content.”

If you really want to feel like you’re doing the heavy lifting in a group, or saving your group’s skin, why don’t you try advertising for PuG’s that need some pointers.

Don’t worry about efficiency, or whatever, but actually use your skill to help other people. That seems like it would be more in-line with the philosophy of keeping your group’s head above the water.

But if you are looking for a game where you can be competitive instead of cooperative, this is not that game.

In fact, this game is probably the opposite of that game.

EDIT: I do want to say that I don’t play a LOT of SPVP. Maybe there’s some decent competition there (?), but wuvwuv just feels like you’re being sucked along a current in the middle of the ocean. You don’t really have a choice because if you leave that current, you either die or end up not really accomplishing anything.

No I don’t want to be better than othe rpeople, thats not my point and Im sorry if it sounds like that. Im just saying that what you bring to a dungeon makes little difference…..theres not enough differentiation between what the classes do. I go do Lupicus on my thief, I’m ranged….I do it on my Warrior, I’m ranged. Hell, do it anything, I’m ranged. Guardian might throw in some heals, which in the scheme of things are very minor. Thief might rez a few folks using invisibility. My point is, it doesnt really matter which character I take..because they are all equally viable.

You did come off sounding that way that why so i was a bit harasser with you then i should of been sry. The thing about classes if you play them all the same way then they will feel the same. The idea of this game is to play each class how you want. Ranges guardian is well week but they CAN do it. Oddly you cant play a condition guardian fire alone is not enofe. You must get outside of the box your putting your self into comply rethink how you play a class. Take your war and make him into a support take your thf and play high condition dmg take your rangers and make them into a melee!

Soakman, you might be right, but you only have to look at the prices for any item on the TP with “berserker” stats over any other stat combination to know that somewhere, it is not working as intended. Cleric’s = cheap as hell, probably just salvage it or throw it in the forge. Berserkers = profit, because it’s what 90% of the gaming community want.

pricer.5091:

My point is, it doesnt really matter which character I take..because they are all equally viable.

And isn’t this awesome? You get to bring with you the players, not the classes. As long as every player knows what they’re doing, you will be fine No more choosing someone for the classes he plays but for how he plays them

Wolfheart.1938:

pricer.5091:

My point is, it doesnt really matter which character I take..because they are all equally viable.

And isn’t this awesome? You get to bring with you the players, not the classes. As long as every player knows what they’re doing, you will be fine No more choosing someone for the classes he plays but for how he plays them

Yeah, in principle I agree, but the real point I think i’m trying to make is that unless you have an “all bad” party…it doesn’t make a massive difference whether or not some in the party dont know what they’re doing. And while I agree this is good for a friendly game, it’s not good for a sense of achievement.

Although it did improve when they removed waypoint respawning form dungeons, before that literally anyone could complete anything with enough time and money for repairs.

pricer.5091:

Soakman, you might be right, but you only have to look at the prices for any item on the TP with “berserker” stats over any other stat combination to know that somewhere, it is not working as intended. Cleric’s = cheap as hell, probably just salvage it or throw it in the forge. Berserkers = profit, because it’s what 90% of the gaming community want.

Sure. I won’t argue that it is working as intended. BUT, I will also argue that a lot of the berserker cost problem stems from people forcing themselves to think of efficiency over fun.

Yeah, you can get through content much faster with full berserker ultra-dodgers, but that doesn’t mean professions can’t do other things effectively.

It’s just less efficient.

And that’s part of what I mean. Can you imagine if only ONE class could DPS? Imagine all the groups that would refuse all of the other ones. Or at least insist a certain number of X class were in the party.

It’s not the professions that that need rebalanced, it’s the AI or mechanics, or skills. Some combo of those.

They need to force people out of all berserker’s is what they need to do.

You are probably right. I think a large part of my point is that the skills need to be more, dunno the right word, but…useful I guess.The only two skills in the game I ever notice and think “that guy knows what he’s doing” are the mesmer portal and the thief Hide in shadows for a quick rez. Everything else….with the exception of maybe boons (aegis for example), I would never even notice. They just get lost with everything else because theyre so…minor.

I think I get what you mean, no content difficult enough to give a real sense of achievement when finished nor any way to stand out with your prowess when in a party. Those are definitely problems GW2 has to deal with, but I assume they have close to no priority as GW2 PvE is not competitive-oriented and people a sizeable portion of the players struggles with the current dungeons.

Oh and by the way, Epidemic is a great way to differentiate the decent Necros from the great ones

How to people take that he’s bored and translate it to he think he should be better than everyone else? I think some people are reading a little too much into his posts and using their own personal bias for things to influence what they’re reading.

Exactly, like you might be close to death and suddenly you get a heal from somewehere that saves you…you know you did becasue you see the green numbers, but theyre usually minor only and you still nedd to heal yourself the rest of the way pretty quickly or your instantly down again. But unless you check the combat log you dont even knwo who or what healed you. So I have never left a dungeon thinking “man, that guy was an awesome player”. You know you’ve had a good party maybe, if you dont die and you finish quickly. But no-one stands out as having contributed more than anyone else. So the difference between good and bad players is invisible.

But sadly, the converse of that is that you definitely do notice is one person in an otherwise decent group is NOT very good, because hes always on the floor.

pricer.5091:

Yes, over and over again, many more times than I can even say. Did you even read my post or are you just flapping your chops?

And no, I have not just played WoW. I’ve been playing MMO’s for longer than some people have been alive.

Spvp is actually a lot of fun and the builds matter. The rest of the game is extremely boring and unrewarding but spvp can actually be fun and classes matter as well as builds.

You do hold a very valid point, zerker gear is the be all end all because eventually everything just 1shots you so it comes down to dodging. I wish it was more balanced in terms of armor and abilities like it was in GW1, but meh this is what we got. My advice… which I’ve told a lot of people at this point, is to just quit and hope ANet makes the game better in the future.

I also feel you in the sense that you don’t know who healed you or who is doing what to help the party out.s. It doesn’t feel very team oriented at all, even in high fractals as many people use as an example of team play, it sure doesn’t feel like it. I’m up to 30+ and we still use the same exact strategy.. every man for himself spam your boons etc. and revive when you see someone down.

Still all about yourself and no team play other than reviving, at least that’s how it feels, it can definitely be improved immensely. Just feels like you’re playing solo but in a group lol, oxymoron ftw. Same thing goes for open world and pvp, a lot of the time you can’t do squat to help someone.

Incoming WoW example…

I can use my rogue to have upwards of 6+ second stun or a 10s CC (stops if target is damaged) to lock a target down if a friend is dying, I don’t even need the ability to heal others just a viable way of shutting an enemy down so they can get away, heal up, or whatever. Most CC in this game only lasts very short times in pve which I think needs to change or heal power needs to be scaled up waay higher on things like regen.

This can all happen without affecting pvp/WvW. When a friend feels helpless, so do I, because I can’t do anything to save them. Needs to be more team play and less 1 man army crap, it would feel much more like an MMO to me.

Still think the removal of monk was the worst idea ever.

Wolfheart.1938:

pricer.5091:

My point is, it doesnt really matter which character I take..because they are all equally viable.

And isn’t this awesome? You get to bring with you the players, not the classes. As long as every player knows what they’re doing, you will be fine No more choosing someone for the classes he plays but for how he plays them

This has been basically the mission statement of GW2 since day 1.
How do people buy this game, get so far into it, not know this and the intentions of the creators of it and then complain about it? Doing any research whatsoever before purchasing this game would have yielded plenty of information that this was the intention of Anet for gw2.
This is some of the reason I am in this game. I don’t want to be chosen or neglected from a party based solely on what class I choose to play. I also don’t want to have to stand around waiting for one specific class-type that we need for a dungeon to round out the group or it’ll fail without said class.

Mmm… it’s a dilemma, actually.

By having bosses with really strong attacks, you make it so that people have to dodge and move around, which is one of the better things in the GW2 combat system. That comes at the cost of gear diversity, for PvE.

However, if they made it so that your gear could greatly decrease the damage you take, you would end up with a faux trinity, with support guardians being “tanks”, staff eles being “healers” and the rest being “dps”.

It literally doesnt matter what you equip or how you set your traits up, if you can time dodges well, get to know the mechanics of a fight, you know what your skills do and you group well, you can do anything this game has to offer. Thus making you absolutely no more desirable in any situation than any other person,

Excuse me, but that statement bothers me. Firstly, if you dodge well and know your class well, know the bosses well, clearly you’re more desirable than some newbie who crafted to 80 in LA and has never been to a dungeon.

Secondly, have you seen all the complaints people post here about MF gear? In principle, the anti-MF crowd argues about lower DPS/survivability, whereas the pro-MF crowd argues mod combinations (Explorer’s has just as much +prec/pow as Knight’s armor) or player skill (not needing toughness/vitality because they can dodge).

Interesting points here pricer, and some I definitely can agree with.

I can remember playing one other MMO in particular (no, not WoW) where I knew that my party members were good players. I could tell from their choice of skills, and from the very obvious effects their skills had on the enemy. In turn, my party members could see that I was playing well, that I knew my class inside and out, based on the choices I made, the skills I chose to use at a particular time.

In GW2, I usually have no idea who is doing what. I have many characters: 12 in all, representing all professions, and I have a good knowledge of what each profession can do. Still, I have a very difficult time knowing which players are performing which skills. Nothing really stands out, and it all melds into one shiny particle-effect. It IS kind of boring.

Like the OP, I have no desire to be TheBestZOMGPlayer in the game. I just like to be able to identify who is doing what, who is performing amazingly, and who could use a pointer or two on a particular encounter. Likewise, I want other players to be able to point out what I could do to improve… but that is very difficult, when it is so difficult to see who is contributing what to the encounter.

Yes you’re right, Classes in GW2 have zero Roles and very little Direction past DPS, toughness, healing and vitality are all quite worthless out side of easier content..

People can claim otherwise till they’re blue in the face, all classes die just as fast as others no matter the build when you hit high content, on a whole all builds are the same in this respect, the only differences i’ve seen is in player skill with the class and that’s pretty tiny..

There are two things you can do. You can make it, like Guild Wars 1 was, where if you were in a specific area, you needed specific builds and skills with a team to succeed. To me, this makes the game less flexible. The game is dictating to me what’s needed to win. I have a similar problem with the trinity system.

Here I have freedom for my character to be what I want my character to be. Or more specifically be who he/she wants to be. That’s the difference. This game gives me that freedom. I don’t, generally, have to change my build to do stuff, because that’s who I am. Let’s pretend in real life I use the same thign every day. Suddenly I have to go to a new place and I have to change what I use. That’s not who I am. How do I ever KNOW how to use that build. If I use a staff all the time and suddenly I have to use a mace, why would I be better with a mace. The right tool for the right job doesn’t beat expertise with a particular build and weapon.

This is a different vantage point that suits players like me. It doesn’t mean that the OP is wrong, IN fact, for the most part the OP is right. You can take any build.

I find that marvelously refreshing.

(Though I still wouldn’t take a minion master into most dungeons. lol)

Yeah, the game design is overly emphasized on dodging and running around in general. The way the defensive stats scale, you can’t really compensate for poor reflexes or such by piling them on.

And the aggro mechanic multiplies this by putting the focus on high toughness builds over high damage builds, paradoxically resulting in high toughness reducing your overall survivability because you become a mob magnet.

Then you have crap like defiant that means unless you got your team on voip you can’t reliably employ CC, not that CC has any worthwhile duration for PVE use to begin with thanks to the damage sponge nature of most mobs.

pricer.5091:

Wolfheart.1938:

pricer.5091:

My point is, it doesnt really matter which character I take..because they are all equally viable.

And isn’t this awesome? You get to bring with you the players, not the classes. As long as every player knows what they’re doing, you will be fine No more choosing someone for the classes he plays but for how he plays them

Yeah, in principle I agree, but the real point I think i’m trying to make is that unless you have an “all bad” party…it doesn’t make a massive difference whether or not some in the party dont know what they’re doing. And while I agree this is good for a friendly game, it’s not good for a sense of achievement.

Although it did improve when they removed waypoint respawning form dungeons, before that literally anyone could complete anything with enough time and money for repairs.

I think I understand what you mean. I don’t share your opinion in the least. It feels completely different for me whether I play a guardian, aegissing away the most dangerous boss attacks and let some mobs die on their own projectiles with my wall of reflection or if I play a warrior trying to survive and position myself while I apply as much damage as possible, changing between axe/mace and gs.

That is different enough for me to keep my interest. And I am not good enough a player – in some dungeons I have experienced complete failures.

So I think you are too hardcore for this game (this is not meant as sarcasm). For “ambitious casuals” like me GW2 is just right.

Edit: You have a good point though: it is difficult to see what each member of a party contributes, at least in most cases. That should be worked upon.

pricer.5091:

My point is, it doesnt really matter which character I take..because they are all equally viable.

Bingo! And I love that, though understand you may not. All Professions are viable, yet they do all play differently-Guardian =/= Warrior playstyle, even if choosing to play similar “roles”.

Playing Ranged doesn’t mean all Professions do the same thing while in range, nor are traditionally ranged characters necessarily forced to go ranged. It’s a very freeing system, which may be hard to get used to when you are used to exceling at one particular “role”, whichever that may be (of course, you can also go attempt to go “full role” in this game, which will again play very differently on each Profession.)

Therefore, the “uniqueness” of each Profession doesn’t necessarily lie in the “role” they play on a group, but on how it plays-if it’s not fun for you, you choose another Profession, or have several alts to entertain yourself with different gaming options.

(True, Guardian lends itself better to “support”, and Warrior to “full offense”, but no one forces you to do either-I find it this game’s strength, you think it’s a weakness. It’s OK, but it’s just the way the game is. Playing whichever Profession I want, whichever way I please, at any content, is one of the game’s biggest selling points, IMO.)

I would say that each profession is different enough that I don’t share the view that all of them are “just the same thing”, since they at times may require similar tactics, but can’t be really played the same way. Much like saying that taking mass transportation in NYC = taking a cab = driving with your own car, since you’ll get to the same place eventually-however, all of those 3 options are very different from each other, despite all of them being ways towards the same end, and using similar mechanics-all have different pros and cons, despite their similarities.

Claudius.5381:

You have a good point though: it is difficult to see what each member of a party contributes, at least in most cases. That should be worked upon.

This is good, IMO, for it theoretically deals with the “need” some players have of “requiring” Professions for this or that content. Some people still believe they need Guardians/Warriors/Mesmers for some content, for instance, when in fact they could very well do with other Professions too. They aren’t too similar at all, yet they are all viable at any content-good news in my book.

Of course, some Professions are a bit unbalanced even for PvE (some traits not strong enough for people to even try them, Professions being ignored for not being “as good” as others, etc.), but that will most likely be a perennial work in progress. People should just play the character(s)/Profession(s) they love, IMHO, rather than “the most powerful”, because in the end, “the most powerful” may cease to be so in some way in the future, with further patches.

Take a break, take some time. Everything’s gonna be all right. Don’t you lose it, remember to take … time out for fun.

I definitely feel you on this, TC. In fact, i think this is the biggest problem GW2 has. The flexibility is great for casuals, but i tend to see it as homogenization and marginalization of individual effectiveness. This isn’t really great for giving players incentive to really care about the content beyond cosmetic rewards simply because it doesn’t feel challenging or like much of an accomplishment to overcome. It certainly doesn’t create an engaged community. Truth is that Berserker gear just trumps everything because the only really defined role here is DPS (There is no direct healer and with defiant, CC builds or specs are extremely marginalized so we really only have one very, very broadly defined role in this game which is DPS with a bit of homogeneous support rather than 3 full on, distinct trinity roles).

Some people like that they have an illusion of choice in regards to how they play their character, but i think for most non-casual players, you really have to dig deep into delusion to come to that perspective. ArenaNet didn’t broaden the paradigms or do much good by removing the trinity, they just homogenized the classes and made everyone a jack of all trades. It really doesn’t matter what you spec in most cases because the combat is so black and white. One exception ive found is the Guardian hammer build that has symbol healing + gives the party the passive resolve heal. I definitely make a difference in the party. But when you think about it, that role is boring. You’re not saving anyone with an Infuse Health, you’re just afk with 1 on auto.

Anyways, yeah, i think if they just flat out added trinity to the game, they’d lose a lot of players, so that’s not really an option although the game is starving for some type of meaningful structure to design deep, engaging content around.

I think the problem stems from how static the skill choices are for the weapons which preclude anything else on your bar in effectiveness. The problem stems from them splitting up the bar so that everything is so hyper balanced that theres no room for choice. Think of it, in GW1, any skill on your bar could be whatever you wanted it to be. Here, you have weapon skills that define you more than the rest, a (mostly useless due to terrible design) elite slot, 3 utilities that are clearly imbalanced and outclassed across all classes…etc. Then, beyond that, the trait system feeds into these already narrow options and just pigeon-holes you further. It would probably do them well to just restructure the trait system entirely into attributes and link utilities with the attributes to create more role definition. Then, make all the special trait bonuses, like the engineer shooting off electrical charges, into new skills that give more diversity to builds. In this way, the Engineer could choose to spec his attributes just so that those charges did insane amounts of damage (creating situational depth) while he sacrifices in other areas. This will create more build diversity and ideally make many specs viable for many different classes so that you aren’t used to seeing the same kitten actions and roles (if you can even call them that in this game) being preformed by the same kitten classes.

Anet made the attempt to replace the trinity with something else. Props for it but I think it failed. You still have professions that are chosen over others. Last I heard for pve it is Ele, Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer that are prefered and Thief, Ranger, Necro and Engineer are viable but are generally not wanted.

The best thing they could’ve done to replace the trinity is to allow each profession be able to spec to fit each role. We have 6 trait lines, so it is simple. Two are for damage, two for soaking/avoiding damage, and two for healing/buffing.

An ele can tank and a warrior can be healer. Instead of people saying they need a healer or tank and be referring to those by profession, they would be asking for it by spec. This way, if there is 5 people, they can designate who will play what role then the player spec’s their character to fill the role. Putting on the right gear, filling out the right trait lines, and selecting the right skills to fill the role.

But that will still leave one of the major issues. One can one profession bring to the table that another can’t and do better?

This is one of the issues facing the ranger in group play. Bow? Warrior LB is better and Thief SB is better. Pet? Has pathing and other AI issues and can be more of a liability than anything. With the AI and 1 shot bosses, having no pet up means having a player putting out significantly less dps than any other even if they don’t spec BM. Spirits? Warrior banners are superior. Spirits can be one shot by trash mobs sometimes.

pricer.5091:

I can wear full berserker gear (which I always do for open world pve) fully specced for damage or I can wear P/V/T gear with supportive traits (which i do for fractals and harder dungeons generally)…and you know what, it doesnt make a bit of difference really. The harder FoTM and dungeon bosses still (more or less) one shot you if you make a mistake or roll in the wrong direction, the stupid annoying Dredge (as one example) still permastun you far beyond your ability to mitigate and you will still get picked up by your party if you are rolling with a decent group. And so it continues, over and over again.

Im bored. Bored silly, and I’ve given it long enough and invested enough time, grinding and occasionally money that I have everything I want in the game (wont go for legendary because after throwing many hundreds of items in the Mystic Thief I just gave up). Full Tier 3 on main toon, crafted Volcanus, crafted Vision of the mists, crafted the Anomaly, got four characters to 80 and fully geared etc etc.

The man problem isn’t the content, which is decent enough really, theres great graphics, great scenery, atmosphere etc, its the basic game mechanics. It literally doesnt matter what you equip or how you set your traits up, if you can time dodges well, get to know the mechanics of a fight, you know what your skills do and you group well, you can do anything this game has to offer. Thus making you absolutely no more desirable in any situation than any other person, unless you are talking about so called “elite” CoF runners who think shaving two minutes off completion is the absolute pinnacle fo the game.

We were talking in guild the other day about all getting alts to level 10 and equipping the most basic gear and going running fractals. Haven’t done it yet, but I have confidence that if we do we will get through it…albeit it will take longer. You basically serve no purpose in this game other than bringing very specific skills such as mesmer portal (for example). And I think thats why Im getting bored again. Plus, the idea that the end game is about cosmetics is a joke when you consider that most people look the same. Thers no true individuality anymore, Tier 3 gear is everywhere, you have seen every dungeon armor many times, every time you go to LA you see more than one legendary being waved about. Its all so pedestrian.

I’ve got gold, compared to some I guess, I have about 150g in the bank at the moment, but there isn’t one thing I want to buy that will a) make me look different or more importantly b) make me perform better. So I log on, do my daily fractal, do my daily and then what? Chat to the guildies, speculate a bit on the TP maybe, dye my armor? Level an alt? Done it 4 times plus two others at lvl 20 and lvl 14 and many more created and deleted…literally cant face all the same stuff anymore.

I would love this game if knowing my class made the difference, if I could turn the tide in a less gifted group through my abilty to heal or tank (for example). But the fact is for everything (with maybe the exception of Arah / CoE (maybe)or higher than level 10 fractals) it really doesnt make any difference. You can run in with 4 good players or 4 bad and you will finish the instance, maybe sooner…maybe later.

I just can’t quite figure out how it could be addressed in entirety, but theres just something fundamental missing from the experience. If everyone is equal, if everyone gets a prize…then theres no winners.

Or is it just art mirroring life?

I’m only going to address your cosmetic point at the moment since I can’t be stuff building an argument around the rest. No matter what game you’ in, what game you’re playing, there will never be an item that only “one” or a “very select” few will own. Stuff like legionaries were designed to be obtainable eventually for everyone who plays the game. Besides, I still see plenty of unique and creative ways to dye and mix match armors. Some people decide to stick with a full set of the tier match while others like to wear different sets of armor. Thus, there is a unique nature with this already. Also, changing the dyes around etc will also make you stand out differently than someone who may be wearing the same. It’s all about how creative you are. Fact is, if armor was as scarce as you wanted, chances are, you won’t be the ones being able to wear it and we’ll have a whole lot of other problems like people complaining how it is a “grind”. So what it comes down to is that, you find this game isn’t grindy enough for you. That too many people are obtaining all the tier 3 gears and that you think only the people who grind endlessly day and night should be able to obtain expensive gears and legendaries, thus, making them not “mainstream”, the common 21st century hipster dilemma.

Not entirely true, although partly I suppose. I just think its a bit sad that people (generally) look the same and I like to mix and match a bit to try and avoid this, but the most common armors in the game are the crafted, the temple vendor and CoF by a long, long, margin. Compound this with the fact that 99% of heavy armor wearers usually carry a greatsword, most mediums apart from egnigneers carry a bow and most light armor wearers carry a staff. Most of the time…ie…..the weapon they like to show to the world.

Then further compound this with the fact that they all have exactly the same skills, most are probably using similar trait setups and also probably have similar slot skills…depending whether they’re PvP or Pve focused.

It used to be the case that you would whisper someone and say “hey cool armor” or "whats that chest you’re wearing….but they’ve all been seen a million times now.

And yes, I understand its like that in other games too, but at least in other games you could be identifiable by your play style. For example in WoW (yawn, I know) you could be a desruction, demonology or afffliction warlock with very differing stat requirements and differnet playstyle. Here, I can make two sets of armor and one set of stats do everything I need in the game. I have 2 slot skils I switch around occasionally depending on circumstance (and every weapon available to my class), but other than that I’m just a guardian.

The first time I really felt this way was the first time I rolled through fractals in my berserker gear (I usually go P/V/T witha mix of some damage and some support accessories in dungeons / fractals) and realised it didn’t make a lot of difference to the outcome. I then changed my traits from damage orientated to fully defensive , geared up all defensive…and it still didnt really make a difference.

I honestly think I could wear a blindfold to select my traits and still play fine…

I’d even take it a step further, i got Dungeon Master on my main before i even started using traits and i don’t really notice too much of a concrete difference now that i use them on all my characters. The game is pretty much solo-able outside of dungeon content and the systems have no integrity in terms of the game as a whole.

The combat mechanics of this game is very one-dimensional/shallow.

Yes, they have removed the tank/healer/dps trinity. They want to replace it with damage/control/support. Unfortunately due to over simplified mechanics, they have actually eliminated only tank and healer, making dps the primary (if not the only) role of GW2.

Control and Support. Now, our skills last for such a short window of time and usually has a very long cooldown, we can only “contain” the enemy for a very brief period of time. Some other old traditional MMO I have played does a far better job in terms of implementing control and support.

For Example:
In some old traditional MMO, when you actually interrupt a bosses massive attack, your entire party gets to live. Fail and you die. A well timed shield or defensive buff will nullify a bosses mega attack, Success and you live, fail and you die. Bosses/Enemies will usually not troll players by spam those massive mega skills like freebies. DPS will shorten the time frame the enemy survives to do those things which greatly reduces the chance of an error. This looks like damage/control/support to me.

In GW2, if I put up a reflection shield to shield my party from an insane amount of crazy range attacks, it is ineffective/useless unless my party has enough dps to take them down in that small window. Many enemies keep stacking conditions / stuns / knockdowns on you that will always overwhelm any skills you have to negate them after the first 10 seconds. Hence, the solution is again dps them to hell before your window runs out. So, dodge + dps is mostly the only way to play gw2.

Thus, there is no trinity of any sort in GW2. There is only DPS. Control and Support is nice to have BUT they are pretty useless when you do not have DPS to take them down in time. The damage/control/support concept GW2 is promoting seems to be better implemented in some old traditional MMO imo.

Pricer,

I don’t disagree with your original post. Well, only in the fact that I am still having fun, but the one point that struck home for me is the “I would love this game if knowing my class made the difference, if I could turn the tide in a less gifted group through my abilty to heal or tank (for example).”

While I think the lack of having the holy trinity was genuinely a step in the right direction for this game, there are times I tend to miss it as I used to be a pretty kick kitten healer. I miss times where I made a difference in a group (or raid). I don’t miss it enough to go back to games I have left, but reading your post made me think that…yeah…I do miss that sometimes.

In any case, I hope you find what you are looking for OR that A-Net makes changes that keep you here.

Cheers.

Agree with the mechanics being poor and the cosmetics really limited. Since the day bosses started giving gold T3 cultural armor lost its prior value.

Now the fact that you can do things with any setup was a selling point just as you have access to any profession and gear in sPvP : they want players to have access to and be able to enjoy all the pve content. It was a design choice.

pricer.5091:

Not entirely true, although partly I suppose. I just think its a bit sad that people (generally) look the same and I like to mix and match a bit to try and avoid this, but the most common armors in the game are the crafted, the temple vendor and CoF by a long, long, margin.

The simple reason for this is how ANet implemented the system. Rather than having a wardrobe (DCUO, CO) of cosmetic parts, or a second page of slots (LOTRO) that only apply armor appearance, people have to go out and get a consumable to merge the look and stats they want.

Also, there is a very arbitrary level based cutoff. From item level 1 to 79 you can use one consumable, but anything level 80 needs a very different consumable.

End result is that most can’t be bothered, and just go with whatever they scrounge or gather using karma or tokens to get the L80 stats.

Never mind having to swap armor to swap build stats; resulting in either having to keep a big stack of consumables on hand, or multiple piles of armor.