Guild Wars 2

Earlier today I played Cursed Shore for about half an hour doing various events so that I could pick up the Giant’s Eye you get after 10 events. I spend the next 8 hours on other characters, on other maps, doing other events and even being offline for chunks at a time doing real life things. I come back and return to Cursed Shore (this is after 8 hours being gone!) and end up with DR (Diminishing Returns) on the very first event. 17k for gold. Next event (a different event), 16k. Then 14k. 12k. 10k. Left map.

A system is in place where you need lots of xp to level Mastery Tiers. A system is in place that you need to do multiple events on the same map to earn specific item rewards. And a system is in place to penalize players for doing exactly what the previous two systems ask of them. It’s time to completely remove DR from the game.

Boysenberry.1869:

It’s time to completely remove DR from the game.

Not sure what was going on to grief you but if you enjoy playing this game at all, you do not!!! want DR removed unless you prefer playing an MMO where you are the only human player and all the other characters are bots, AND you want the economy to completely crash.

Diminishing Returns is character bound not account bound which means it can ONLY be removed by either AFK’ing somewhere on the character with DR or doing dungeons/fractals/anything other then open world events. It doesn’t even get removed by spending time offline, it just gets frozen till the next time you log into that character.

This basically means that you can farm the hell out of Cursed Shore then quit the game for weeks/months/years and come back to the same amount of DR as you had when you left.

I personally HATE this mechanic as it literally does NOTHING to deter any bots as all they do is farm gathering nodes which are unaffected by DR.

IMO at the very least the amount of XP from events should NEVER get affected by DR because there is no way that a bot could use XP gains to somehow gain gold or exploit anything. It’s not like a real bot could even do events to begin with due to how they work.

Been having the same exact problem with cursed shore and trying to earn my Tyria Masteries worst part is that no matter what zone I go to on my main now all the events are giving me <5k XP and my only option to remove it is to afk in LA for hours.

If bots are only prevalent at nodes (and I am not saying they are) its because of how well Anet has designed the game to make bots somewhat ineffectual (on top of all the other security measures). Some specific events however are not the only option for farming or how bots could exploit the game mechanics which is why the suggestion to completely remove DR is such a bad idea.

Now, if some specific, isolated aspects of the game or certain events are an issue then that is something that could possibly be addressed but that unfortunately is not where the op went with his post.

Silvatar.5379:

Boysenberry.1869:

It’s time to completely remove DR from the game.

Not sure what was going on to grief you but if you enjoy playing this game at all, you do not!!! want DR removed unless you prefer playing an MMO where you are the only human player and all the other characters are bots, AND you want the economy to completely crash.

This isn’t true necessarily. I play games that have no bots and no DR.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Silvatar.5379:

Boysenberry.1869:

It’s time to completely remove DR from the game.

Not sure what was going on to grief you but if you enjoy playing this game at all, you do not!!! want DR removed unless you prefer playing an MMO where you are the only human player and all the other characters are bots, AND you want the economy to completely crash.

This isn’t true necessarily. I play games that have no bots and no DR.

Can you name this game that has entirely no bots.

I played on the map for a whole 30 minutes. I took a long break and then I immediately ran into DR upon returning. How is any of this a good idea? The wiki lists the map bonus rewards going all the way up to 8000 points (80 gold events). It would be physically impossible to achieve these awards if you can only play 30 minutes.

simplesimon.2084:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Silvatar.5379:

Boysenberry.1869:

It’s time to completely remove DR from the game.

Not sure what was going on to grief you but if you enjoy playing this game at all, you do not!!! want DR removed unless you prefer playing an MMO where you are the only human player and all the other characters are bots, AND you want the economy to completely crash.

This isn’t true necessarily. I play games that have no bots and no DR.

Can you name this game that has entirely no bots.

Well, if there are any bots, they’re apparently few enough in number that they’re not noticeably annoying and they’re not running the economy. And the game has no DR, so it’s a win-win.

I have no doubt there are games that manage to avoid bot infestations without the use of DR thanks to 1) its overall design; 2) because there is no rl money to be made from botting; or, 3) its a small game that flies under the radar. But if I sound overly opposed to removing DR, its because of my own biased experience in my last MMO where massive bot infestations were common with devastating impacts on the economy and the community in general. Glad to hear you had a better experience than I did!!

Silvatar.5379:

I have no doubt there are games that manage to avoid bot infestations without the use of DR thanks to 1) its overall design; 2) because there is no rl money to be made from botting; or, 3) its a small game that flies under the radar. But if I sound overly opposed to bots, its because of my own biased experience in my last MMO where massive bot infestations were common with devastating impacts on the economy and the community in general. Glad to hear you had a better experience than I did!!

Yeah, I’ve had some bad experiences, too. Archeage, for instance, was a very bad experience with botting.

However, I don’t personally believe that DR solves everything and in many cases hurts the legit players more than the bots.

Remove DR invite bots to farm scribing mats and to scribe everything in mass so it can put some of the fun back into gh decorations.

tl;dr let bots fix scribing

I made a post about this once on another forum and got shot down over the bots thing, too. It’s not exactly something we think about. It also got pointed out to me this is probably why we can’t farm silk here like we could in other games. In WoW you farmed trolls, in DAoC (different system) but there were places to go for your salvage needs, but in Guild Wars 2 there is really only the TP.

Solve bots to solve this I guess.

what i expected:
a post about completely removing the server of Devona’s Rest and banning everyone on it

what i got:
the same argument people have been having since release

One of these… has a future.

Diminishing Returns was never about bots. It is, and always has been about punishing people for not playing the way Anet thinks they should.

Neural.1824:

Diminishing Returns was never about bots. It is, and always has been about punishing people for not playing the way Anet thinks they should.

Maybe they tuned and created it keeping both thoughts on their minds.

Harny.6012:

Neural.1824:

Diminishing Returns was never about bots. It is, and always has been about punishing people for not playing the way Anet thinks they should.

Maybe they tuned and created it keeping both thoughts on their minds.

It’s certainly not tuned correctly if you run into DR after 30 minutes and long before you can work your way through the reward track they designed. If the anti-bot crowd wants DR to remain then it needs to be designed in a way that doesn’t harm legitimate players.

Bots were never really affected by DR, since DR only affects Karma, Exp and direct
drops of armor and weapons, but not drops of crafting mats.

Celtic Lady.3729:

simplesimon.2084:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Silvatar.5379:

Boysenberry.1869:

It’s time to completely remove DR from the game.

Not sure what was going on to grief you but if you enjoy playing this game at all, you do not!!! want DR removed unless you prefer playing an MMO where you are the only human player and all the other characters are bots, AND you want the economy to completely crash.

This isn’t true necessarily. I play games that have no bots and no DR.

Can you name this game that has entirely no bots.

Well, if there are any bots, they’re apparently few enough in number that they’re not noticeably annoying and they’re not running the economy. And the game has no DR, so it’s a win-win.

It is probably a game where economy is player driven and we see players carrying caravans through map, players can pay other groups of players to act as body guards, a bit like we were playing .hack at the end but w/o the helmet immersion :P
Guild actually own houses in midle of the towns, player also do that and it is not a game based on shard districs.
Also game as the same graphics as gw2 maxed out.
And btw does that game needs to be played with gamming proxy? if so were playign the same game, altough some mobs AI looks even worse than gw2 ones.

Soa Cirri.6012:

what i expected:
a post about completely removing the server of Devona’s Rest and banning everyone on it

what i got:
the same argument people have been having since release

One of these… has a future.

You missed one, Divinity’s Reach. The Queen might not have held enough Seraph back to defend DR, if it comes to that.

(And no, DR won’t go away while ANet continues to fight bots).

Aeolus.3615:

Celtic Lady.3729:

simplesimon.2084:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Silvatar.5379:

Boysenberry.1869:

It’s time to completely remove DR from the game.

Not sure what was going on to grief you but if you enjoy playing this game at all, you do not!!! want DR removed unless you prefer playing an MMO where you are the only human player and all the other characters are bots, AND you want the economy to completely crash.

This isn’t true necessarily. I play games that have no bots and no DR.

Can you name this game that has entirely no bots.

Well, if there are any bots, they’re apparently few enough in number that they’re not noticeably annoying and they’re not running the economy. And the game has no DR, so it’s a win-win.

It is probably a game where economy is player driven and we see players carrying caravans through map, players can pay other groups of players to act as body guards, a bit like we were playing .hack at the end but w/o the helmet immersion :P
Guild actually own houses in midle of the towns, player also do that and it is not a game based on shard districs.
Also game as the same graphics as gw2 maxed out.
And btw does that game needs to be played with gamming proxy? if so were playign the same game, altough some mobs AI looks even worse than gw2 ones.

So I can’t help but notice ya’ll aren’t naming this mystical MMO Nirvana where no DR is needed cause bots aren’t a thing.

Is it a bit like the nordic system where if too many people are in the know the utopia begins to fall apart? Couldn’t blame you I suppose.

With regards to an actual massive multiplayer world with a real world spanning community, DR is a necessary evil.

Blame the gold sellers.

Boysenberry.1869:

Harny.6012:

Neural.1824:

Diminishing Returns was never about bots. It is, and always has been about punishing people for not playing the way Anet thinks they should.

Maybe they tuned and created it keeping both thoughts on their minds.

It’s certainly not tuned correctly if you run into DR after 30 minutes and long before you can work your way through the reward track they designed. If the anti-bot crowd wants DR to remain then it needs to be designed in a way that doesn’t harm legitimate players.

You did not encounter DR after 30 minutes. What you describe in your opening post is not how DR works.

Obtena.7952:

You did not encounter DR after 30 minutes. What you describe in your opening post is not how DR works.

It might not supposed to work that way but it most certainly did for me. I’ll repeat myself again and maybe make it clearer:

My Elementalist was doing Hero Points on the HoT maps. I then hop over to Cursed Shore where I spent about 30 minutes and ran the 10 events I needed to get the Giant’s Eye. For the next 8 hours I was either offline or playing other characters. I then returned to my Elementalist who I had left in Cursed Shore and attempted to resume running events. On the very first event I was hit with DR (gold event xp down to 17k) and each event after that it dropped 1k or 2k per event. Actual gameplay time until the first DR was hit was about 30 minutes (give or take another minute or two to find an event upon returning) and the 11th event was the beginning of DR.

This happened. Maybe it isn’t supposed to. But it did. You can’t earn these map bonus rewards without hitting DR very quickly.

Bots don’t care about diminishing returns. If they’re after mats, they don’t care about experience. If they’re after experience, well, there’s no human sitting there to be inconvenienced. They’re either asleep, at work, or tending their other bots (so the bot can just be kept running indefinitely). DR does not impact bots in any meaningful way and bringing them into this argument is specious at best.

I can’t complete a single meta event in Auric Basin without getting DR by ~33% done with the meta. Honestly, it shows that ANet just doesn’t want to reward the players for playing the game.

Then again, I’m sure there will be something on the Gem Store soon enough to temporarily remove DR in zones.

Until then, enjoy farming events for 4k experience for 100%+ participation/gold for mastery paths that require 5m+ experience.

Neural.1824:

Diminishing Returns was never about bots. It is, and always has been about punishing people for not playing the way Anet thinks they should.

Why would ANet want to punish anyone? How does it benefit their bottom line if people get too discouraged and give up? Even tinfoil hat theories usually have some benefit that accrues to the evil masterminds for implementing their nefarious plans.

I cannot believe some people defend this seriously broken system which punishes normal play not even farming.
Playing Cursed Shore doing events after cca 30 minutes i get 7k per lvl 80 event
Playing Dragon’s Stand meta event by end i am getting 9k exp why are you punished for sticking with meta ?
Verdant Brink same story like Dragon’s Stand.

This is COMPLETELY BROKEN system at moment which is punishing you without any good reason.

IT must be removed or reworked.

DR is account only, i think bot farming only hurts the market, if a zone is being overfarmed by players that would pusnish new players in that zone, so i dont think DR is working in that way, and it is locked in player account only.

RNG is another evil lord :P

Bambi.2609, dont expect to much Gw2 is to much limited due being 100% themepark, so the game must be timegated and controlled sometimes with DR(afecting player only offc if overfarm that place to much).

DR is a huge problem for us “normal” players. Today i tried leveling my alt a little bit while i tried to complete the map i was in. While doing so, i traveled the map, got many ressources from gathering notes, but to my surprise rather few exp (from doing events; more from the hearts) and also few items. the first ~10 enemies in an event drop some items and the ones after that already have reduced droprates – one of the reasons for the high linen costs btw.
What we need is a system that dont force players to switch maps and let them farm items or exp if they want to.

Boysenberry.1869:

Obtena.7952:

You did not encounter DR after 30 minutes. What you describe in your opening post is not how DR works.

It might not supposed to work that way but it most certainly did for me. I’ll repeat myself again and maybe make it clearer:

My Elementalist was doing Hero Points on the HoT maps. I then hop over to Cursed Shore where I spent about 30 minutes and ran the 10 events I needed to get the Giant’s Eye. For the next 8 hours I was either offline or playing other characters. I then returned to my Elementalist who I had left in Cursed Shore and attempted to resume running events. On the very first event I was hit with DR (gold event xp down to 17k) and each event after that it dropped 1k or 2k per event. Actual gameplay time until the first DR was hit was about 30 minutes (give or take another minute or two to find an event upon returning) and the 11th event was the beginning of DR.

This happened. Maybe it isn’t supposed to. But it did. You can’t earn these map bonus rewards without hitting DR very quickly.

I will repeat: what you are calling DR is not. DR doesn’t even impact XP. DR affects loot drops from mobs, not event rewards. I don’t know what happened to you, but you did not experience the DR that’s in place to prevent people from farming in a map for too long.

Obtena.7952:

Boysenberry.1869:

Obtena.7952:

You did not encounter DR after 30 minutes. What you describe in your opening post is not how DR works.

It might not supposed to work that way but it most certainly did for me. I’ll repeat myself again and maybe make it clearer:

My Elementalist was doing Hero Points on the HoT maps. I then hop over to Cursed Shore where I spent about 30 minutes and ran the 10 events I needed to get the Giant’s Eye. For the next 8 hours I was either offline or playing other characters. I then returned to my Elementalist who I had left in Cursed Shore and attempted to resume running events. On the very first event I was hit with DR (gold event xp down to 17k) and each event after that it dropped 1k or 2k per event. Actual gameplay time until the first DR was hit was about 30 minutes (give or take another minute or two to find an event upon returning) and the 11th event was the beginning of DR.

This happened. Maybe it isn’t supposed to. But it did. You can’t earn these map bonus rewards without hitting DR very quickly.

I will repeat: what you are calling DR is not. DR doesn’t even impact XP. DR affects loot drops from mobs, not event rewards. I don’t know what happened to you, but you did not experience the DR that’s in place to prevent people from farming in a map for too long.

Incorrect. A snippet from the wiki:

Open world DR is area specific, i.e. it triggers after a character passes a set limit of events, believed to include cycling through events on a map for over three hours or remaining within a narrow portion of that map for similarly long periods. Event rewards and loot will often show a dramatic decline after hitting this limit. Unlike dungeon DR, open world DR is character-specific and can be removed by switching between characters.

Affected dynamic events
Coin
Experience
Karma

You see, here is the problem:

You switched characters right? Wiki says that it’s removed by switching characters.

So one of these things is wrong:
1. You didn’t experience DR because you claim you switched characters and waited 8 hours
2. Wiki doesn’t know what DR is either.

So if you believe Wiki, you didn’t experience DR. Have you been able to repeat your experience?

I think the whole DR system is completely borked. The wiki might not fully understand the process but DR has definitely always had an impact on XP, loot, Karma, and just about everything. The original point of this thread is that DR is damaging players who are simply trying to play the game as designed. They designed these map bonus rewards and they have a system that harms players (through DR) who try to play on maps for these rewards.

In my opinion DR needs to be completely removed. In my situation it either bugged out and gave me DR way too quickly in which they need to address this….or the system is grossly flawed in which they need to address that. If someone thinks of a way to design DR that doesn’t harm players (but stops BOTS) then great, DR can stay. But until then, it needs to go.

DR is your reward for playing the game.

Take that (Smack_in_the_face.rar).

Edit……

Did we all really pay for a game and agree that the more we play the more they take away from us. (Madness.bat).

XP DR makes little sense in a system where you’re required to repeat events on only 4 maps ad nauseum in order to level masteries so you can accomplish goals impossible to achieve without the aforementioned masteries.

My opinion is that it needs to be removed. It reminds me of the original FFXIV. I believe it also had a Diminishing Return system in which the longer a player played, the more he was punished. Everyone hated that as well…

So, I’m not supposed to go for map completion?
I’m supposed to change maps while doing map completion even when there’s only one map that fits my characters level?
Even if it just affects loot, that’s still significant to map completion.

Tumult.2578:

So, I’m not supposed to go for map completion?
I’m supposed to change maps while doing map completion even when there’s only one map that fits my characters level?
Even if it just affects loot, that’s still significant to map completion.

Here is the problem I have with this thread;

Who else has ever encountered the specific issue that the OP is describing? I know I haven’t, and farming openworld is 99% of what I do in this game. So I don’t think the OP has encountered something that’s systematic with the dynamics of the game. Sounds like either 1) misinterpretation or 2) some kind of weird bug.

For the record, I’ve never noticed DR on events, especially after 30 minutes, nor doing map completions. So go forth with the confidence you do can map completion … AND get your proper, full rewards doing it.

I’m not sure if it fits the 30min time window OP is describing, but in the silverwastes DR hits pretty fast I think. Or at least I’m getting less XP for the same events rather quickly. I often run supply between Red and Indigo, as such I do defense of both fortresses when they come up and sometimes hit the yellow bull on its way out, too. Usually when I have done an event about three times, XP rewards start to drop. Interesting part is, even when I’m at the point where I don’t get much XP anymore and I then do the rubble collecting for Red for the first time (usually don’t have time for that with the escort and all, so it’s not that regularly done by me), I get the full 18k XP again. So it kinda feels like a DR for specific events.
On the other hand, when nearing the end of DS with all its different quests, my XP drops as well. So there it’s like a non-event-specific DR.

Obtena.7952:

Here is the problem I have with this thread;

Who else has ever encountered the specific issue that the OP is describing? I know I haven’t, and farming openworld is 99% of what I do in this game. So I don’t think the OP has encountered something that’s systematic with the dynamics of the game. Sounds like either 1) misinterpretation or 2) some kind of weird bug.

For the record, I’ve never noticed DR on events, especially after 30 minutes, nor doing map completions. So go forth with the confidence you do can map completion … AND get your proper, full rewards doing it.

Since I’ve returned to the forums when HoT arrived I have seen many posts (and in-game chat) about people’s issues with DR. People are even experiencing DR on the HoT maps with which it supposedly disabled. I’m not the only person in the world who is playing the game normally and experiencing DR. That’s great that you don’t experience DR. But your arguments follow the same line as those people who enter threads about Game Crashes and telling those OPs that “I personally don’t crash so all is fine!”.

There is no misinterpretation. I know what DR is. I know what it has an impact on. But since Anet would never disclose exacting details of how DR kicks in, it would be impossible to tell if it is a bug or not. All I know is that right now, for me, and many others, it does not work within the confines of how players want to play the game.

That is my argument for getting rid of it. If you have an opposing view, that’s fine. But saying it doesn’t happen to you or that I must be exaggerating things doesn’t help solve the problem.

Has anyone asked John Smith the question?

He seems able to pull out conclusive proof if DR is hitting players in these maps.
Personally I feel that I have hit DR in Auric, Dragons Stand on numerous occasions due to the nature of the maps and how we are encouraged to run around in a small portion of the map to progress the meta events.

Obtena.7952:

Here is the problem I have with this thread;

Who else has ever encountered the specific issue that the OP is describing? I know I haven’t, and farming openworld is 99% of what I do in this game. So I don’t think the OP has encountered something that’s systematic with the dynamics of the game. Sounds like either 1) misinterpretation or 2) some kind of weird bug.

For the record, I’ve never noticed DR on events, especially after 30 minutes, nor doing map completions. So go forth with the confidence you do can map completion … AND get your proper, full rewards doing it.

As I said in a previous post I can confirm that I am having the EXACT same problem regarding DR. The other day I was trying to earn XP for my Tyria masteries so I thought I’d try Orr since it’s one of the few populated vanilla maps. After doing around 8-10 events I noticed that the experience I was earning per event would gradually decrease with every successive event (This is DR at work) it went something like this:

First ~10 events (<30 mins): 18k XP, 509 Karma, 81 Copper Per event.
^ (This is NORMAL for a GOLD level event @ 80)
Event #11 (30-35 Mins): 17k XP, 480 Karma, 78 Copper Per event.
Event #12 (35 Mins): 16500 XP, 440 Karma, 69 Copper Per event.
Event #13 (35-40 Mins): 15800 XP, 400 Karma, 60 Copper Per event.
Event #14 (40 Mins): 14900 XP, 360 Karma, 53 Copper Per event.
Event #15 (40+ Mins): 13600 XP, 290 Karma, 38 Copper Per event.
.
.
.
.
.
Event #30+ (1H +): 133 XP, 8 Karma, 3 Copper Per event. (This is the lowest I’ve seen DR get)
^ Keep in mind these are all GOLD level events.

The DR for Events seems to kick in WAY too fast, and is devastating to anyone trying to earn XP legitimately through events. Eventually when I started earning less than 5k Xp per event chain, this included events in any and all other zones as well. (I need over 4M XP) I was so frustrated with DR that I was forced to leave and farm CoF instead (Which I absolutely hated but it was the only way to earn ANY XP without AFK’ing for hours in between sessions to remove DR).

Just FYI there are 3 types of Diminishing returns in this game:

Type A – |Dungeon DR| which kicks in after running the same path once a day; resets daily; account wide.

Type B – |Event DR| Which kicks in after running a certain number of events in a row within a period of time; resets in 15-20 mins ONLY if LOGGED-IN and not doing events (reset time appears to scale with the severity of the DR); character only.

Type C |Monster/Loot DR| Which kicks in after killing a specific monster hundreds of times in a row; causes all loot drops from said monster to gradually get worse and eventually stop; removed by not killing that mob for a period of time; character only.

ALL forms of DR affect Experience Earned, Karma Gains and Liquid Gold Rewards.