Guild Wars 2

I’m mostly talking from a pve perspective. PvP is awesome and I do enjoy it very much.

But PvE, it’s just almost all the grinding takes place in dungeons. There is very little you can do in terms of the grind outside of dungeons other than karma farm by zoning all over the place.

I know people will say farm up crafting materials, but once you get to 400 crafting, you really need the rarer materials and running all over Orr with the density of mobs makes it an impractical thing to do.

I just wish it was a little more solo friendly when it comes to the grind.

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

After figuring out how to do all paths of AC efficiently and without wiping, I still have quite a few more runs before I can afford the weapon I want. I enjoyed working out how to do everything, but now it does feel like a grind. Getting a whole set of armor will take even longer.

But I suppose it does make it so everyone wont be running around in such armors/weapons.

But at least crafting exotics should be a bit easier.

But then again, I don’t feel kittened with my current armor.

haha, I don’t know why that word was blocked, but I’ll repeat, I don’t feel underpowered with my current armor/runes/weapons etc.

Eochaidh.4106:

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

I think you may have misinterpreted my point.

All exotic gear is equal to each other. Exotic chest piece = another exotic chest piece.

I don’t really have a probelm with that.

But the amount of time required to get a different exotic (for purely cosmetic reasons) is the problem with the lack of being able to solo for it. To get a piece of exotic gear, which is of equal value, requires dozens of dungeon runs.

Now before you say GW1 had a ton of grind to it, a lot of GW1’s grind was also solo…and you could achieve the grind in multiple ways. In GW1 you could farm gold, farm missions, do hardmodes for more rewards or do stuff like underworld for direct materials for armors.

But in GW2, you can only do dungeon grinds for the vast majority of exotic gear.

piitb.7635:

Eochaidh.4106:

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

I think you may have misinterpreted my point.

All exotic gear is equal to each other. Exotic chest piece = another exotic chest piece.

I don’t really have a probelm with that.

But the amount of time required to get a different exotic (for purely cosmetic reasons) is the problem with the lack of being able to solo for it. To get a piece of exotic gear, which is of equal value, requires dozens of dungeon runs.

Now before you say GW1 had a ton of grind to it, a lot of GW1’s grind was also solo…and you could achieve the grind in multiple ways. In GW1 you could farm gold, farm missions, do hardmodes for more rewards or do stuff like underworld for direct materials for armors.

But in GW2, you can only do dungeon grinds for the vast majority of exotic gear.

Thing is you can get MAX level 80 gear without grinding so anything else is for kitten and COSMETICS nothing more therefore there IS a GRIND for kitteners and COSMETIC freaks. Nothing in dungeons is REQUIRED thus GRIND isn’t REQUIRED. If you grind you CHOOSE to grind you don’t have to. Thus Anet told the truth because there is NO GRIND to LEVEL 80 or level 80 Max gear.

Let me just use an example.

Guild Wars 1 you want to get Obsidian gear. To get obsidian gear, you could farm up all the materials through FoW and underworld w/ some salvaging. This required grouping Or you could go out and farm for specific high value items like black dye or unique weapons to trade for the mats. This was solo if you wanted it to be. There was several ways to get Obsidian gear.

Guild Wars 2 if you want a specific set of gear, you can only farm a specific dungeon. And to do dungeons always requires grouping, which is not always possible.

^Guild Wars is pretty much an online single player game. You can’t compare. Grouping is always possible in this game, but you really can’t achieve everything solo, and there is nothing wrong with that.

ravinhood.3981:

piitb.7635:

Eochaidh.4106:

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

I think you may have misinterpreted my point.

All exotic gear is equal to each other. Exotic chest piece = another exotic chest piece.

I don’t really have a probelm with that.

But the amount of time required to get a different exotic (for purely cosmetic reasons) is the problem with the lack of being able to solo for it. To get a piece of exotic gear, which is of equal value, requires dozens of dungeon runs.

Now before you say GW1 had a ton of grind to it, a lot of GW1’s grind was also solo…and you could achieve the grind in multiple ways. In GW1 you could farm gold, farm missions, do hardmodes for more rewards or do stuff like underworld for direct materials for armors.

But in GW2, you can only do dungeon grinds for the vast majority of exotic gear.

Thing is you can get MAX level 80 gear without grinding so anything else is for kitten and COSMETICS nothing more therefore there IS a GRIND for kitteners and COSMETIC freaks. Nothing in dungeons is REQUIRED thus GRIND isn’t REQUIRED. If you grind you CHOOSE to grind you don’t have to. Thus Anet told the truth because there is NO GRIND to LEVEL 80 or level 80 Max gear.

I’m not sure how you got your level 80 exotic gear but I am still grinding for mine… You need to either:

1. Get it by crafting
a. Level up a crafting profession (major grind)
b. Get enough ectos and fine crafting mats for a full set of armor (major grind)

2. buy it from the TP. Costs about 12 gold, more gold then i’ve made after playing 100 hours.

3. Grind 100+ dungeon runs

Sorry really not seeing how you can get max level gear without grinding…

@ZuderGambeous

I got to 400 armorsmithing with no grind, just by using mats I earned on the eay to 80. And then, of course, you could sell those for some quite reasonable gold as well.

By the time you are level 80, odds are that you have some 40k karma as well, which should allow you to get an exotic piece.

And again 100 dungeon runs for a set is bull. You don’t need that many.

Eochaidh.4106:

^Guild Wars is pretty much an online single player game. You can’t compare. Grouping is always possible in this game, but you really can’t achieve everything solo, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Exactly since this is an MMO not a solo-co-op game like GW1 was. People need to get over that this is NOT GW1 and is not going to PLAY like GW1. GW1 was a ROMPER ROOM game compared to GW2 which is going to make you EARN what you get and not EXPLOIT it with solo builds like 55 monks and invulnerable SINS. Thank god Anet saw the light.

Eochaidh.4106:

@ZuderGambeous

I got to 400 armorsmithing with no grind, just by using mats I earned on the eay to 80. And then, of course, you could sell those for some quite reasonable gold as well.

By the time you are level 80, odds are that you have some 40k karma as well, which should allow you to get an exotic piece.

And again 100 dungeon runs for a set is bull. You don’t need that many.

Speaks the truth….Zuder is just a BAD player.

ravinhood.3981:

piitb.7635:

Eochaidh.4106:

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

I think you may have misinterpreted my point.

All exotic gear is equal to each other. Exotic chest piece = another exotic chest piece.

I don’t really have a probelm with that.

But the amount of time required to get a different exotic (for purely cosmetic reasons) is the problem with the lack of being able to solo for it. To get a piece of exotic gear, which is of equal value, requires dozens of dungeon runs.

Now before you say GW1 had a ton of grind to it, a lot of GW1’s grind was also solo…and you could achieve the grind in multiple ways. In GW1 you could farm gold, farm missions, do hardmodes for more rewards or do stuff like underworld for direct materials for armors.

But in GW2, you can only do dungeon grinds for the vast majority of exotic gear.

Thing is you can get MAX level 80 gear without grinding so anything else is for kitten and COSMETICS nothing more therefore there IS a GRIND for kitteners and COSMETIC freaks. Nothing in dungeons is REQUIRED thus GRIND isn’t REQUIRED. If you grind you CHOOSE to grind you don’t have to. Thus Anet told the truth because there is NO GRIND to LEVEL 80 or level 80 Max gear.

It’s not about the grind to get all exotic gear.

It’s the grind between exotic gears.

I don’t see how this is confusing.

To get svanir’s gear it requires dozens of runs in 1 specific instance. To get zhaitian’s gear it requires dozens of runs in a completely different specific instance.

For example to get 1 piece of zhaitan exotic gear it requires 25 speed runs in Arah explorable mode. 25 runs for a cosmetic piece of gear. You can’t get that piece of gear doing ANYTHING else. You have to run Arah 25 times.

It is an MMO (massive MULTIPLAYER online )
Getting exotic gear isnt all that bad at all. There are TONS of groups running dungeons.
There are events going on all the time in Orr so you can get Karma rather quickly. (lets not mention WvW)
There is the trading hall where you can buy exotic gear.

I already got a full set of flame citadel gear, get over it. The Honor of the Waves set seems to be easy to farm, too. Working on it already.
There have to be some grind for good skins or everyone will have them and they become boring to look at.

piitb.7635:

ravinhood.3981:

piitb.7635:

Eochaidh.4106:

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

I think you may have misinterpreted my point.

All exotic gear is equal to each other. Exotic chest piece = another exotic chest piece.

I don’t really have a probelm with that.

But the amount of time required to get a different exotic (for purely cosmetic reasons) is the problem with the lack of being able to solo for it. To get a piece of exotic gear, which is of equal value, requires dozens of dungeon runs.

Now before you say GW1 had a ton of grind to it, a lot of GW1’s grind was also solo…and you could achieve the grind in multiple ways. In GW1 you could farm gold, farm missions, do hardmodes for more rewards or do stuff like underworld for direct materials for armors.

But in GW2, you can only do dungeon grinds for the vast majority of exotic gear.

Thing is you can get MAX level 80 gear without grinding so anything else is for kitten and COSMETICS nothing more therefore there IS a GRIND for kitteners and COSMETIC freaks. Nothing in dungeons is REQUIRED thus GRIND isn’t REQUIRED. If you grind you CHOOSE to grind you don’t have to. Thus Anet told the truth because there is NO GRIND to LEVEL 80 or level 80 Max gear.

It’s not about the grind to get all exotic gear.

It’s the grind between exotic gears.

I don’t see how this is confusing.

To get svanir’s gear it requires dozens of runs in 1 specific instance. To get zhaitian’s gear it requires dozens of runs in a completely different specific instance.

For example to get 1 piece of zhaitan exotic gear it requires 25 speed runs in Arah explorable mode. 25 runs for a cosmetic piece of gear. You can’t get that piece of gear doing ANYTHING else. You have to run Arah 25 times.

It’s not required. Thus it could take years to get and it wouldn’t matter. Not a grind since it’s not required.

Malediktus.9250:

I already got a full set of flame citadel gear, get over it. The Honor of the Waves set seems to be easy to farm, too. Working on it already.
There have to be some grind for good skins or everyone will have them and they become boring to look at.

You’ve managed to run flame citadel 80+ times in a little over 2 weeks?

I call pics or didn’t happen.

piitb.7635:

ravinhood.3981:

piitb.7635:

Eochaidh.4106:

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

I think you may have misinterpreted my point.

All exotic gear is equal to each other. Exotic chest piece = another exotic chest piece.

I don’t really have a probelm with that.

But the amount of time required to get a different exotic (for purely cosmetic reasons) is the problem with the lack of being able to solo for it. To get a piece of exotic gear, which is of equal value, requires dozens of dungeon runs.

Now before you say GW1 had a ton of grind to it, a lot of GW1’s grind was also solo…and you could achieve the grind in multiple ways. In GW1 you could farm gold, farm missions, do hardmodes for more rewards or do stuff like underworld for direct materials for armors.

But in GW2, you can only do dungeon grinds for the vast majority of exotic gear.

Thing is you can get MAX level 80 gear without grinding so anything else is for kitten and COSMETICS nothing more therefore there IS a GRIND for kitteners and COSMETIC freaks. Nothing in dungeons is REQUIRED thus GRIND isn’t REQUIRED. If you grind you CHOOSE to grind you don’t have to. Thus Anet told the truth because there is NO GRIND to LEVEL 80 or level 80 Max gear.

It’s not about the grind to get all exotic gear.

It’s the grind between exotic gears.

I don’t see how this is confusing.

To get svanir’s gear it requires dozens of runs in 1 specific instance. To get zhaitian’s gear it requires dozens of runs in a completely different specific instance.

For example to get 1 piece of zhaitan exotic gear it requires 25 speed runs in Arah explorable mode. 25 runs for a cosmetic piece of gear. You can’t get that piece of gear doing ANYTHING else. You have to run Arah 25 times.

If you get 30 tokens per Arah run, you will need about 40 runs to get the FULL set.

I don’t get what your point is about the separate dungeons, all dungeons have unique skins. And there are 3 quest paths for Arah (I think…) so you will need to do about 13 of each, which isn’t a terrible amount. These armors should have a grind for them.

Eochaidh.4106:

@ZuderGambeous

I got to 400 armorsmithing with no grind, just by using mats I earned on the eay to 80. And then, of course, you could sell those for some quite reasonable gold as well.

By the time you are level 80, odds are that you have some 40k karma as well, which should allow you to get an exotic piece.

And again 100 dungeon runs for a set is bull. You don’t need that many.

60 for the armor set, 20 for two weapons. That’s 80 dungeon runs for a full set of gear.

Don’t forget that the game is new as heck, so the prices at the trading post will be high for materials. (few crafters, high demand)

The grind is completely up to you, it’s as much or as little as you decide. It isn’t a requirement that you own every weapon, armor set or achievement in the game. That is a choice.

Please do not confuse the two.

They.9516:

Eochaidh.4106:

@ZuderGambeous

I got to 400 armorsmithing with no grind, just by using mats I earned on the eay to 80. And then, of course, you could sell those for some quite reasonable gold as well.

By the time you are level 80, odds are that you have some 40k karma as well, which should allow you to get an exotic piece.

And again 100 dungeon runs for a set is bull. You don’t need that many.

60 for the armor set, 20 for two weapons. That’s 80 dungeon runs for a full set of gear.

So do you only get 20 tokens per run?

AC is 30, which means 40 for the armor set.

And again, the grind is optional, and it’s there so there are not 1000 people running around in Arah armor and Arah weapons. Just like fow armor.

There was no “FoW” armor in GW1.

There were individual sets that required materials to make but never required only 1 pathway to get.

To get Obsidian armor, you didn’t have to run FoW and only FoW 60 times.

You also had to grind reputation with factions to get their armor sets in Eye of the North. While again, there were different ways to go about it, it involved running something over and over, whether it was speed-booking, or vanquishing, etc. Either way, it still had the monotony of “grinding” to gather the resources necessary to craft the armor.

The complaint here is that you only have one method of getting a specific set, rather than simply farming money and “buying” the set, which was feasible in Guild Wars 1.

This is NOT a bad thing. If you think about it, almost every other MMO ever requires you to farm an instance or a raid over and over for a CHANCE at getting the piece of gear you want. After that, you had to combat other players that might want that same piece of gear for it after the first RNG was nice enough to reward it to your team.

While you might not find running the same dungeon over and over again favorable for one specific set of gear, know that every successful completion shows progress towards your goal that you can see, rather than a chance to just see what you want. Additionally, you aren’t locked out for a week or anything like most raid schedules on MMOs (that I am aware of), so you can run it whenever and however many times you want.

Additionally, take comfort in the fact that anyone else that wants this set has to do the exact same thing, so it will be easier to find groups for these dungeons than it was in Guild Wars 1.

Also, I imagine being “forced” (if you want to view it that way) to do one thing in order to acquire the specific set you want will result in a more satisfying sense of accomplishment, as everyone who sees you sporting your new gear will know exactly what you had to go through to acquire it, rather than people being allowed to believe you ran easy and mindless gold farms for it, or came across a pile of gold via a birthday minipet or something. It shows exactly the accomplishment you achieved.

EDIT: Additionally, after completing the campaigns in Guild Wars 1, there was little to do in PvE except for extensive grinds (whether it was gold runs to buy the gear or otherwise). While this may not look appealing to some, it allowed for players to achieve exactly what they hoped to achieve in the game, rather than forcing players to run raids and such to achieve an advantage over their fellow players. The “prestige” grind in this MMO (which, let’s face it: every MMO’s max level grind is for bragging rights) is purely cosmetic, which allows you to pick and choose which grinds you want to participate in. That is AWESOME.

AVHero.7382:

You also had to grind reputation with factions to get their armor sets in Eye of the North. While again, there were different ways to go about it, it involved running something over and over, whether it was speed-booking, or vanquishing, etc. Either way, it still had the monotony of “grinding” to gather the resources necessary to craft the armor.

The complaint here is that you only have one method of getting a specific set, rather than simply farming money and “buying” the set, which was feasible in Guild Wars 1.

This is NOT a bad thing. If you think about it, almost every other MMO ever requires you to farm an instance or a raid over and over for a CHANCE at getting the piece of gear you want. After that, you had to combat other players that might want that same piece of gear for it after the first RNG was nice enough to reward it to your team.

While you might not find running the same dungeon over and over again favorable for one specific set of gear, know that every successful completion shows progress towards your goal that you can see, rather than a chance to just see what you want. Additionally, you aren’t locked out for a week or anything like most raid schedules on MMOs (that I am aware of), so you can run it whenever and however many times you want.

Additionally, take comfort in the fact that anyone else that wants this set has to do the exact same thing, so it will be easier to find groups for these dungeons than it was in Guild Wars 1.

Also, I imagine being “forced” (if you want to view it that way) to do one thing in order to acquire the specific set you want will result in a more satisfying sense of accomplishment, as everyone who sees you sporting your new gear will know exactly what you had to go through to acquire it, rather than people being allowed to believe you ran easy and mindless gold farms for it, or came across a pile of gold via a birthday minipet or something. It shows exactly the accomplishment you achieved.

It’s easy to find groups now because the game is brand spanking new.

6 months down the road, when people farmed up the particular sets they wanted and hardly anyone wants to run the particular instance you want to, the system in place is going to make achieving most armor sets incredibly difficult.

Dungeons give good money, too. If you dont die you make at least 26s profit at lvl 80. And its quite possible to do most dungeons without dieing.

All you people screaming max stat gear is easy to get – you are RIGHT – if all you care about is stats there is very little grind in the end. The problem is…the other 95% of us like to LOOK GOOD TOO – and that is where the ridiculous grind comes in unless you are lucky and you happen to prefer the look of a crafted or drop set. Should I be able to get a full set of skins from a dungeon in a few hours? No. Should I be able to get a full set of dungeon skins in 10-20 hours and also have it be an enjoyable, non-grindy esperience as well as rewarding beyond the set of skins I’m buying with tokens (gold, rare drops, etc)? Yes. Can I do that in GW2? No.

azurrei.5691:

All you people screaming max stat gear is easy to get – you are RIGHT – if all you care about is stats there is very little grind in the end. The problem is…the other 95% of us like to LOOK GOOD TOO – and that is where the ridiculous grind comes in unless you are lucky and you happen to prefer the look of a crafted or drop set. Should I be able to get a full set of skins from a dungeon in a few hours? No. Should I be able to get a full set of dungeon skins in 10-20 hours and also have it be an enjoyable, non-grindy esperience as well as rewarding beyond the set of skins I’m buying with tokens (gold, rare drops, etc)? Yes. Can I do that in GW2? No.

They just need to refine the token system is all.

All bosses should drop a form of universal token. End bosses should drop dungeon specific tokens.

Then sets require X amount of universal tokens plus a Y amount of dungeon specific tokens. That way you can enjoy ALL the dungeons while still farming up a particular set.

piitb.7635:

It’s easy to find groups now because the game is brand spanking new.

6 months down the road, when people farmed up the particular sets they wanted and hardly anyone wants to run the particular instance you want to, the system in place is going to make achieving most armor sets incredibly difficult.

This will be my second and probably last response, because you seem eager to find fault with the system regardless, and making valid points will be countered or ignored.

There will be new players. There will be old players with alts who want to set on their alt. The game isn’t going to die in 6 months. There will be people around. I assure you you will not be the only person playing the game in 6 months (if you are still playing, because let’s face it, you sound like a quitter already, no offense).

Like my edit said in my previous post that you might have missed, this game sets it up for you so that the grinds are purely aesthetic, rather than statistically beneficial (aside from legendary weapons, but that is a marginal increase anyway), so you are allowed to pursue whatever grinds you choose. Other MMOs allow for aesthetic grinds, but also impose a gear grind that is mandatory in order to experience later end-game content. In this game you can experience all content with max gear fairly easily. If you want to enjoy the game beyond that experience, you get to choose how you want to. This is an awesome system.

azurrei.5691:

Should I be able to get a full set of dungeon skins in 10-20 hours and also have it be an enjoyable, non-grindy esperience as well as rewarding beyond the set of skins I’m buying with tokens (gold, rare drops, etc)? Yes. Can I do that in GW2? No.

I think this is your problem. You are expecting a full set of awesome gear plus other stuff in 10 hours. MMOs just do not work this way. You have to keep your expectations in line with the genre of game this is.

I already have a full set of exotic armour and 2 exotic weapons. I farmed a few hours each night for a week and 1 weekend. This is already super fast. I will have all 5 exotic jewelry pieces by next weekend as well. 2-3 weeks for fully max gear is not that bad.

piitb.7635:

azurrei.5691:

All you people screaming max stat gear is easy to get – you are RIGHT – if all you care about is stats there is very little grind in the end. The problem is…the other 95% of us like to LOOK GOOD TOO – and that is where the ridiculous grind comes in unless you are lucky and you happen to prefer the look of a crafted or drop set. Should I be able to get a full set of skins from a dungeon in a few hours? No. Should I be able to get a full set of dungeon skins in 10-20 hours and also have it be an enjoyable, non-grindy esperience as well as rewarding beyond the set of skins I’m buying with tokens (gold, rare drops, etc)? Yes. Can I do that in GW2? No.

They just need to refine the token system is all.

All bosses should drop a form of universal token. End bosses should drop dungeon specific tokens.

Then sets require X amount of universal tokens plus a Y amount of dungeon specific tokens. That way you can enjoy ALL the dungeons while still farming up a particular set.

I like this idea, but it’s basically already implemented, in the form of gold.

I couldnt agree more, they seriously need to tone down the grinding for gear in this game its freakin insane …36 runs just for a full set -.-’

I thought this game was meant to favour “casual gamers” yet the costs for gear in this gear in insane..the amount of runs needed for one piece of gear will leave you hating the dungeon

They tried to avoid grinding at least they claim to have. However the system they have now not only promotes grinding but its almost like a mandatory for some hardcore mindests. Bosses and stuff need to be more rewarding, instances need to be more rewarding. Sadly we are left with a totally uninspired dungeon system with what I consider bad mechanics that are not fun, they claim to be looking into this as they can see the problems with Boss mechanics and such aka how they are linear, boring, and too long.

MMO’s as a genre have shown us that a certain amount of grind can be a lot of fun, to OP and enjoy your time you put in to have a certain amount of bragging rights and face-rollage. My prayers would be answered if they would adopt previously superior concepts for Dungeons and make the GRIND not only fun but less apparently GRIND FEST.

Mexxer.5096:

I couldnt agree more, they seriously need to tone down the grinding for gear in this game its freakin insane …36 runs just for a full set -.-’

I thought this game was meant to favour “casual gamers” yet the costs for gear in this gear in insane..the amount of runs needed for one piece of gear will leave you hating the dungeon

It’s optional. What if you ran the dungeon 3 times a month for 1 year? It’s only for skins ayway. If people want to do it 3 times a day (like myself) then ofc it will become a grind. Doing all the jumping puzzles in 1 day would be a grind, but it’s a choice.

My god yes, the grind in this game would put vanilla WoW to shame. For a company that stated no one finds grinding to be fun they sure were quick to turn around and add a grindfest at level 80. I wouldn’t mind the grind so much if maybe Orr events actually worked, or if maybe the rewards from lower level areas were scaled up to my actual level, after all I am being scaled down to their level so not the other way around.

Grinding for exotics is not optional. What is there to do after spy cap you map completion, get two exotic sets and are level 80? We are then left with grinding for better looking gear or perhaps we a blessed with a server being smashed in wvw.

Arena net have designed it in a way that extreme grind is evident. Its the only thing they can do to keep players thoguh. Its sad after they said they were going to redesign what aneendgame was when it is essentially the same.

I might add leveling to 80 was the most enjoyable thing I have done in this mmo. The grind I am now faced with is so disappointing because it is so typical.

We have to grind for exotics because there is nothing more to do after you have maxed out yoyo character.

While you people complain here about grinding I will already finish my 2nd exotic dungeon set soon :p

Less complaining, more playing. Or live with the basic crafting sets.

^ bit you are missing the point.
Anet said they wanted to change endgame and that they wanted to change the perception of grind. In reality they have changed one thing, the gear treadmill.

I will continue to state that there is nothing but grinding after you cap out, and I thought they wanted to change the whole idea of grind.

Show you an MMO with no grinding at max level? ok. This one.

Think about it guys… this need to mindlessly grind and find ways to make more money and more gear more efficiently stems from your own desire to own these things, and own them as fast as humanly possible and preferably before everyone else.

Why? Just enjoy the game and pvp/dungeon with friends and do what u feel like, eventually the rewards come automatically. If you feel the burning desire to have all the best rewards asap then you are just going to suffer because the game was made to be enjoyed at its core and not for people who have justified in their brain somehow that spending hours grinding something in a repetitive manner is normal and acceptable!

The one thing I agree on whole heartedly is the waypoint costs at higher levels are far too much.

I personally refuse to do 80 runs of a dungeon to get tokens to buy cosmetic gear. I hate token systems with a passion, it would have been nice to have an RNG chance to get one of the items from the dungeons in addition to tokens. If that was the case I would gamble my time for the chance of a drop. I will not play the ‘save the token’ meta game.
I guess I will just have to look ordinary.

Really wish Anet would speak up, seeing fewer and fewer red posts on forums lately, kind of disturbing. Tell us what’s going on, what are your plans to fix this trainwreck of endgame. Otherwise a vast majority will pack their bags and move on to something else. Sorry to say it, but it is the truth.

Cawesome.1580:

trainwreck of endgame

Fine as it is, which is exactly like they’ve been saying it would be. Educate yourself about the game you’re buying before you buy it next time.

Cawesome.1580:

Really wish Anet would speak up, seeing fewer and fewer red posts on forums lately, kind of disturbing. Tell us what’s going on, what are your plans to fix this trainwreck of endgame. Otherwise a vast majority will pack their bags and move on to something else. Sorry to say it, but it is the truth.

Have you checked the meanings of the words “vast” and “majority” recently? Sorry to say but what you said is very far from the truth.

You really think they are gonna stress about the tiny majority who have so much time that they have been 80 for a while and have ran out of things to do to the point of having lots of spare time to post on forums about it. The game sold so much better than they expected they had to immediately go and buy more server room and the digital version was out of stock for TWO WHOLE WEEKS O_O

Cawesome.1580:

Really wish Anet would speak up, seeing fewer and fewer red posts on forums lately, kind of disturbing. Tell us what’s going on, what are your plans to fix this trainwreck of endgame. Otherwise a vast majority will pack their bags and move on to something else. Sorry to say it, but it is the truth.

It’s not the truth.

Kimhyuna.1035:

Grinding for exotics is not optional. What is there to do after spy cap you map completion, get two exotic sets and are level 80? We are then left with grinding for better looking gear or perhaps we a blessed with a server being smashed in wvw.

Arena net have designed it in a way that extreme grind is evident. Its the only thing they can do to keep players thoguh. Its sad after they said they were going to redesign what aneendgame was when it is essentially the same.

There is plenty to do at lvl 80.

Have you not tried doing all the dungeon paths? They are rather hard you know.

It is very grindy if you make a decision for yourself that you want something specific. ANet is really trying to force people to “play casually,” but when you have an objective on your mind, the only thing you’re going to be thinking about as you wander around Orr or return to Queensdale to help someone (and make just barely enough money to cover the waypoint cost), is your own goal.

You can’t introduce an armor set and weapons, for example, that require hundreds if not thousands of tokens that you get a maximum of 20-30 of from a very specific location. You’re telling the player they need to grind that location dozens upon dozens of times. Even with three paths, that is still a mountain of grinding. There is nothing casual about that. Actively trying to discourage people from doing dungeon runs while tying a reward to them that is exclusive to that content is a little offensive. You can’t tell players they can do whatever they want, then punish them for doing what they want. I’m not saying there’s a better system, just that it’s very foolish to assume you’re doing players a favor by whipping them when they try to grind for something that they want when you’re the one that made it difficult to get. You can’t encourage people to have fun in an approved manner. It just makes everything else unfun.

The only example I have for myself is cultural armor, which I want three pieces of. The prices are obscene. Playing “casually,” it would take me literally months to get it, because it’s so outrageously expensive. Unfortunately, when I play, all I can think about it is how awful my character looks, because I’m not allowed to get the look I want without months of grinding. It’s depressing.

If your answer to that is “no one is forcing you to do that,” that sums up GW2’s endgame in a nutshell, I think. It’s like being a kid to a parent with a play schedule you don’t want to follow. They have a strict list of fun activities planned for you with definite start and end times. If you don’t enjoy that, well, it’s your fault for wanting things and having personal tastes and desires. And you should be punished for it.

ravinhood.3981:

piitb.7635:

Eochaidh.4106:

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

I think you may have misinterpreted my point.

All exotic gear is equal to each other. Exotic chest piece = another exotic chest piece.

I don’t really have a probelm with that.

But the amount of time required to get a different exotic (for purely cosmetic reasons) is the problem with the lack of being able to solo for it. To get a piece of exotic gear, which is of equal value, requires dozens of dungeon runs.

Now before you say GW1 had a ton of grind to it, a lot of GW1’s grind was also solo…and you could achieve the grind in multiple ways. In GW1 you could farm gold, farm missions, do hardmodes for more rewards or do stuff like underworld for direct materials for armors.

But in GW2, you can only do dungeon grinds for the vast majority of exotic gear.

Thing is you can get MAX level 80 gear without grinding so anything else is for kitten and COSMETICS nothing more therefore there IS a GRIND for kitteners and COSMETIC freaks. Nothing in dungeons is REQUIRED thus GRIND isn’t REQUIRED. If you grind you CHOOSE to grind you don’t have to. Thus Anet told the truth because there is NO GRIND to LEVEL 80 or level 80 Max gear.

Which MAX level 80 gear is available without grinding? Is there ugly/normal exotic grade armour I can buy with the 80K Karma and/or 10 gold I have collected? I have looked everywhere…

I have to admit when I first read Arenanet’s blog post about their new dungeon tokens for armors I was under the impression you would run the dungeon and get 1 token for that dungeon which you could then go change for 1 armor piece of your choice. I figured with 6 armor pieces and like a dozen weapons that would mean maybe 10 runs for a full set of armor/weapons per dungeon. I was really excited about that.

~15 runs for a weapon and ~40 for an armor set is crazy. I love GW2, I really do. The leveling experience is one of the best gaming experiences I have ever had, but dungeon tokens/karma grinding is ridiculous.

As for Karma I don’t think it would be so bad if the rewards were better but I don’t want to sit in Orr farming events over and over and if I AM going to go back and do lower level zones I would rather do it on an alt and work on my map completion/leveling at the same time. Maybe karma could be changed to be shared between characters? That way I can play whichever character I want and not be forced to overplay one character just because I want the gear on that one.

Part of the problem is that, if you want a piece of gear from one of the dungeon sets, you need to repeat that specific dungeon 10+ times. For the full set plus a couple of weapons, this can easily go into the hundreds.

This is just bad design.

My friends want me to do TA with them, but since I want the AC set for my character, I “have” to keep doing AC, otherwise I feel like I’m wasting my time in TA (the tokens I get from there don’t allow me to buy anything I want).

What kind of sense does this make? Is Arena Net deliberately trying to make the game feel grindy? Why not have a single kind of token that players can use to buy the armour with the look they like, while still allowing them some variety of choice in which dungeons they’re going to run?

By all means, add a small chance (ex., 1-2%) for the final boss in each dungeon to drop one piece of that dungeon’s set, but let people choose which dungeon to play based on what they enjoy or what their friends enjoy, don’t force them to repeat the same dungeon over and over and over again.

The current system is grindier than WoW.

Al Zheimer.2305:

Part of the problem is that, if you want a piece of gear from one of the dungeon sets, you need to repeat that specific dungeon 10+ times. For the full set plus a couple of weapons, this can easily go into the hundreds.

This is just bad design.

My friends want me to do TA with them, but since I want the AC set for my character, I “have” to keep doing AC, otherwise I feel like I’m wasting my time in TA (the tokens I get from there don’t allow me to buy anything I want).

What kind of sense does this make? Is Arena Net deliberately trying to make the game feel grindy? Why not have a single kind of token that players can use to buy the armour with the look they like, while still allowing them some variety of choice in which dungeons they’re going to run?

By all means, add a small chance (ex., 1-2%) for the final boss in each dungeon to drop one piece of that dungeon’s set, but let people choose which dungeon to play based on what they enjoy or what their friends enjoy, don’t force them to repeat the same dungeon over and over and over again.

The current system is grindier than WoW.

This is the first time I am hearing someone wants to do AC for the gear. The stats are inferior, so you must want the set for the looks? Looks rather ordinary to me though, but to each his own.

Farming my full exotic set for 400 Tailoring took me about 9 hours total. Trying to get my Relic Weapon in old XI took me almost 2 years. Not to mention I think Tailoring is the hardest of the Crafts for the 400 exotics. I know Armorsmithing is a joke, hell guildie finished his set before me and he started later. (90% of the crap I farmed myself except for Gossamer Cloth)