Guild Wars 2

ZudetGambeous.9573:

ravinhood.3981:

piitb.7635:

Eochaidh.4106:

You don’t need crafting. If you sell all of your materials at the TP, odds are that you’ll be able to afford a couple exotic pieces without any problem. Crafted exotics cost little over the sum of materials in most of the cases.

I sold most of my stocked mats for 8g yesterday.

I think you may have misinterpreted my point.

All exotic gear is equal to each other. Exotic chest piece = another exotic chest piece.

I don’t really have a probelm with that.

But the amount of time required to get a different exotic (for purely cosmetic reasons) is the problem with the lack of being able to solo for it. To get a piece of exotic gear, which is of equal value, requires dozens of dungeon runs.

Now before you say GW1 had a ton of grind to it, a lot of GW1’s grind was also solo…and you could achieve the grind in multiple ways. In GW1 you could farm gold, farm missions, do hardmodes for more rewards or do stuff like underworld for direct materials for armors.

But in GW2, you can only do dungeon grinds for the vast majority of exotic gear.

Thing is you can get MAX level 80 gear without grinding so anything else is for kitten and COSMETICS nothing more therefore there IS a GRIND for kitteners and COSMETIC freaks. Nothing in dungeons is REQUIRED thus GRIND isn’t REQUIRED. If you grind you CHOOSE to grind you don’t have to. Thus Anet told the truth because there is NO GRIND to LEVEL 80 or level 80 Max gear.

I’m not sure how you got your level 80 exotic gear but I am still grinding for mine… You need to either:

1. Get it by crafting
a. Level up a crafting profession (major grind)
b. Get enough ectos and fine crafting mats for a full set of armor (major grind)

2. buy it from the TP. Costs about 12 gold, more gold then i’ve made after playing 100 hours.

3. Grind 100+ dungeon runs

Sorry really not seeing how you can get max level gear without grinding…

Yea? you don’t see how? So yesterday when I got off work I had 1 gold 39 silver. I sold all of the crafting materials from my bank that I had from my leveling experience to 80. I then had 12 Gold, I bought my set and decided to finish discoveries for a couple zones to get 2 exotic weapons and about 45 silver per completion. There’s the Frost zone and 3 zones in Orr that you can do this for. Do you see it now? Are you a crafter? No? Sell that crap and buy your sets.

Pikafan.3792:

This is the first time I am hearing someone wants to do AC for the gear. The stats are inferior

You seem to have missed the point of my message. It’s not about which dungeon you want to do or which gear you like. I picked two completely random dungeons.

My point is that, with the current system, you’re forced to do the same dungeon over and over again to get the look that you want for your character.

Al Zheimer.2305:

Pikafan.3792:

This is the first time I am hearing someone wants to do AC for the gear. The stats are inferior

You seem to have missed the point of my message. It’s not about which dungeon you want to do or which gear you like. I picked two completely random dungeons.

My point is that, with the current system, you’re forced to do the same dungeon over and over again to get the look that you want for your character.

Did not seem like a hypothetical situation you are postulating. I don’t really see the problem with doing the same dungeon repeatedly, but, again, to each his own.

the problem is dungeons are boring and the skill system sucks, i could run a wow raid 50 times and still have fun, in gw2 i was boring in the second run, i hate the zergfest, the lack of builds, lack of progression, no competitive pve, and unrewarding grind.

Duveth.5742:

the problem is dungeons are boring and the skill system sucks, i could run a wow raid 50 times and still have fun, in gw2 i was boring in the second run, i hate the zergfest, the lack of builds, lack of progression, no competitive pve, and unrewarding grind.

Then go back to WoW. It is simple as that. Clearly this game isn’t for you.

I think there needs to be a greater distinction made, one that highlights what I think is the main problem with level 80 gear.
Gear with maximum stats should be easier to acquire at the moment than it currently is.
However, cosmetic prestige gear?
I’m fine with people having to grind for that.

Why should max stat gear be easier to acquire?
One of the main endgame activities is WvWvW. Knowing that your gear may not be up to spec dissuades people from playing, as anyone interested in fair competition is not interested on losing through gear disadvantage. Losing because of skill? Fine.

Let me further clarify.
I have a full set of Knight’s exotic armour, 2 extra pieces in storage from karma vendors and an extra set of Explorer’s pauldrons, but exactly one level 80 exotic weapon, my hammer.
The Knight’s set, I’ve had to compromise on runes; I really want superior runes of the fighter, but have for the time being, due to excessive costs, settled on Dwayna runes.
I am struggling to put together basic sets, and the costs associated with what I have acquired so far have ruined me financially in game. My money never seems to go above 1g any more. I have also just realised that I have made a mistake in crafting Knight’s (Power/Toughness/Precision), and that I would have been much better off with Power/Toughness/Vitality armour, but there’s no way of fully acquiring a set of this except through WvWvW.
The sheer cost associated with acquiring this equipment, both in time and money, is preventing me from finding optimal builds, which in turn makes me question my effectiveness in both PvP and PvE, which in turn makes me wonder why I am bothering playing. Transport and repair costs on top of basic crafting costs add the final nails in the coffin.
I feel like I’m constantly being punished for playing.
Surely that’s not how you want your players to feel ANet?

This is also in stark contrast to SPvP, where max stat gear is readily available in any configuration you desire, with the “grind” purely being for cosmetics. Hello lack of consistency!

Someone came up with a very interesting idea. Make dungeons drop 2 different kinds of tokens. One generic which drops in bigger numbers and another specific to that dungeon that maybe drops 1, 2 per run, and adjust vendors to require both.

This way, even if you run another dungeon, you will still be getting tokens that will help you towards whatever set you want, promoting diversity on dungeon runs and reducing the feeling of grind.

Now, as everyone else mentioned, there must be some kind of grind in this game. What ANet decided to do was to remove the required grind from our path of character evolution. We do not need any kind of unbearable grind to get ourselves to the top, like EVERY other mmo out there.

But as I said above there must be some kind of grind and what they did was to move that to an optional path. Cosmetics IS optional. You do not need it to be equal to the most powerfull character in your server. If you want to look cool, it’s an option available to you but it is also your choice and the game won’t ever force you to do that, just to be competitive in any way. Please understand that.

Pikafan.3792:

Al Zheimer.2305:

Part of the problem is that, if you want a piece of gear from one of the dungeon sets, you need to repeat that specific dungeon 10+ times. For the full set plus a couple of weapons, this can easily go into the hundreds.

This is just bad design.

My friends want me to do TA with them, but since I want the AC set for my character, I “have” to keep doing AC, otherwise I feel like I’m wasting my time in TA (the tokens I get from there don’t allow me to buy anything I want).

What kind of sense does this make? Is Arena Net deliberately trying to make the game feel grindy? Why not have a single kind of token that players can use to buy the armour with the look they like, while still allowing them some variety of choice in which dungeons they’re going to run?

By all means, add a small chance (ex., 1-2%) for the final boss in each dungeon to drop one piece of that dungeon’s set, but let people choose which dungeon to play based on what they enjoy or what their friends enjoy, don’t force them to repeat the same dungeon over and over and over again.

The current system is grindier than WoW.

This is the first time I am hearing someone wants to do AC for the gear. The stats are inferior, so you must want the set for the looks? Looks rather ordinary to me though, but to each his own.

All dungeon items are for the skins. Crafting lvl 80 exotics is easier and faster. But I don’t see why AC/Manor items are lvl 60/70. I’ll put that in the suggestion forum, to make them lvl 80.

I agree it is very grindy. I would like to see universal tokens instead of a different type for each dungeon. I would also like it if it only took around 20 runs for a full set of exotics.

Smitt.8602:

I agree it is very grindy. I would like to see universal tokens instead of a different type for each dungeon. I would also like it if it only took around 20 runs for a full set of exotics.

But then people would choose the easiest path out of the 34 or so paths and farm it to death, then continue complain about the grind.

ref.8196:

Smitt.8602:

I agree it is very grindy. I would like to see universal tokens instead of a different type for each dungeon. I would also like it if it only took around 20 runs for a full set of exotics.

But then people would choose the easiest path out of the 34 or so paths and farm it to death, then continue complain about the grind.

Huh…? You can’t get one dungeon’s set by doing other dungeons. Your choice is between the 3 paths in that dungeon.

You somehow think that’s a better situation than letting people choose from the full list of available dungeons, based on the ones they enjoy or the ones their friends are doing?

Al Zheimer.2305:

ref.8196:

Smitt.8602:

I agree it is very grindy. I would like to see universal tokens instead of a different type for each dungeon. I would also like it if it only took around 20 runs for a full set of exotics.

But then people would choose the easiest path out of the 34 or so paths and farm it to death, then continue complain about the grind.

Huh…? You can’t get one dungeon’s set by doing other dungeons. Your choice is between the 3 paths in that dungeon.

You somehow think that’s a better situation than letting people choose from the full list of available dungeons, based on the ones they enjoy or the ones their friends are doing?

Well I don’t actually know. I think I would prefer a universal token system, so I can play whichever dungeon I want (to play it for fun, not farming it over and over), but most of the players will choose the easiest route, making it much easier for them to obtain, making the gear less special.

ref.8196:

most of the players will choose the easiest route, making it much easier for them to obtain, making the gear less special.

So you equate having the time and willingness to repeat the same dungeon 120 times with somehow being a more “worthy” person?

Al Zheimer.2305:

ref.8196:

most of the players will choose the easiest route, making it much easier for them to obtain, making the gear less special.

So you equate having the time and willingness to repeat the same dungeon 120 times with somehow being a more “worthy” person?

What? I think you misread my post.

ref.8196:

Smitt.8602:

I agree it is very grindy. I would like to see universal tokens instead of a different type for each dungeon. I would also like it if it only took around 20 runs for a full set of exotics.

But then people would choose the easiest path out of the 34 or so paths and farm it to death, then continue complain about the grind.

Unfortunately that is exactly what would happen and exactly why they all have different tokens. The speed farmers/levelers/grinders all gravitate towards the one that they can speed-farm the fastest.

Hawken.7932:

The speed farmers/levelers/grinders all gravitate towards the one that they can speed-farm the fastest.

And how would that make the game worse for anyone?

How does forcing people to play through a specific dungeon 120 times make the game better for anyone than letting them play 8 different dungeons 10 or 15 times each?

You seem to think that “punishing” some abstract people you dislike justifies making the game worse for everyone.

Al Zheimer.2305:

Hawken.7932:

The speed farmers/levelers/grinders all gravitate towards the one that they can speed-farm the fastest.

And how would that make the game worse for anyone?

How does forcing people to play through a specific dungeon 120 times make the game better for anyone than letting them play 8 different dungeons 10 or 15 times each?

You seem to think that “punishing” some abstract people you dislike justifies making the game worse for everyone.

Where did the number 120 come from?

I think its more about the fact that you are handed everything in this game and there is nothing to work twords. You can get a full set of exotics, both weapon sets and runed for practically nothing. Dungeons offer nothing for gear upgrades except the token loot which requires a ton of them and only one set of that gear even looks worth all the trouble to aquire.

Dragon events are the most boring and useless thing ive done in this game. Constant ability lag in the end of the fights, people not getting contribution for participating and they are just boring as can be. You dont even really need to do anything since so many people show up to these just for the chest every few hours.

WvW is a huge mess atm and one server dominates and the others give up.

Nadasdy.4836:

I think its more about the fact that you are handed everything in this game and there is nothing to work twords.

First, this is a game, not a job. If you’re “working”, you’re wasting what is (supposedly) your leisure time.

Second, I have no idea what makes you say that you are “handed everything”. There are dozens of dungeon / karma / PvP armor sets and weapons (not to mention the legendaries) and they all need a massive time investment to get.

Where did the number 120 come from?

I guess this is why Arena Net says they can’t sift through these forums.

Someone posts about the fact that you’re forced to repeat the same dungeon over and over again to get an armour set instead of being free to pick the dungeons you want to do, or join your friends in the dungeons they prefer, and the answers are:

• “But that set you used as an example is not my favourite.”
• “Please list the exact elements that go into that number you used as a generic example.”

Sigh…

If you must know, it takes 2790 emblems to get a full set of armor and two weapon sets. More if you want to have alternative weapons (ex., dual dagger + dual pistols + short bow). Let’s say you stop at three weapon sets (i.e., decide you don’t need the full dungeon gear set). That adds up to 3180 emblems. The first run of the day for each branch gives you 30, the next ones give you 20. Assuming you do six runs a day, covering all paths, that’s an average of 25 emblems per run. 3180 divided by 25 is 127.2, or 128 runs.

There, the example was off by 8.

Now that a completely generic and unimportant number has been explained, do you understand the original (and completely unrelated) point about forcing people to do the same dungeon dozens of times instead of letting them run the dungeons they enjoy while still being able to buy the armour with the look they prefer…?

Account.9832:

Where did the number 120 come from?

I guess this is why Arena Net says they can’t sift through these forums.

Someone posts about the fact that you’re forced to repeat the same dungeon over and over again to get an armour set instead of being free to pick the dungeons you want to do, or join your friends in the dungeons they prefer, and the answers are:

• “But that set you used as an example is not my favourite.”
• “Please list the exact elements that go into that number you used as a generic example.”

Sigh…

If you must know, it takes 2790 emblems to get a full set of armor and two weapon sets. More if you want to have alternative weapons (ex., dual dagger + dual pistols + short bow). Let’s say you stop at three weapon sets (i.e., decide you don’t need the full dungeon gear set). That adds up to 3180 emblems. The first run of the day for each branch gives you 30, the next ones give you 20. Assuming you do six runs a day, covering all paths, that’s an average of 25 emblems per run. 3180 divided by 25 is 127.2, or 128 runs.

There, the example was off by 8.

Now that a completely generic and unimportant number has been explained, do you understand the original (and completely unrelated) point about forcing people to do the same dungeon dozens of times instead of letting them run the dungeons they enjoy while still being able to buy the armour with the look they prefer…?

Actually you are wrong. If I wanted the full set of dungeon armor, and ALL the weapons for my class, it would go over at least 800 runs. I can’t believe A-net are forcing me to do that.

Account.9832:

Part of the problem is that, if you want a piece of gear from one of the dungeon sets, you need to repeat that specific dungeon 10+ times. For the full set plus a couple of weapons, this can easily go into the hundreds.

This is just bad design.

My friends want me to do TA with them, but since I want the AC set for my character, I “have” to keep doing AC, otherwise I feel like I’m wasting my time in TA (the tokens I get from there don’t allow me to buy anything I want).

What kind of sense does this make? Is Arena Net deliberately trying to make the game feel grindy? Why not have a single kind of token that players can use to buy the armour with the look they like, while still allowing them some variety of choice in which dungeons they’re going to run?

By all means, add a small chance (ex., 1-2%) for the final boss in each dungeon to drop one piece of that dungeon’s set, but let people choose which dungeon to play based on what they enjoy or what their friends enjoy, don’t force them to repeat the same dungeon over and over and over again.

The current system is grindier than WoW.

Overall, I don’t really agree that it’s too grindy. People seem to be complaining far too much, and obsessing far too much about being able to achieve the sets in a short amount of time. BUT….

I like the suggestion about the 1-2% drop change of some of the sets from the end of the dungeon (in combination with the token system). I don’t think that would take away from the current system too much, and add a motivation to people who seem to be stressed out about the token math. It’s a small chance, but for people who prefer the lottery style for drops, I think it would be an improvement.

I really doubt that they’ll do it though, as THIS is the kind of grinding which seems to be directly against their philosophy.

Hawken.7932:

People seem to be complaining far too much, and obsessing far too much about being able to achieve the sets in a short amount of time.

Since you posted that as a reply to my message, I wonder if that was the impression you got from my posts. If so, it was completely the wrong one.

I never commented on the amount of time. My problem is with the fact that the game currently forces you to do the same dungeon dozens of times (in fact, if you want the full set plus weapons, over 100 times) when you might not even like that dungeon to begin with.

Conversely, if you’re not interested in gear from a certain dungeon, the main reward you get from running it (the dungeon-specific tokens) is worthless to you.

It’s just a badly designed system, that promotes repetition instead of fun. Hopefully it will be changed to a generic token system soon, or some mechanism will be added to allow exchanging one token type for another.

ref.8196:

If I wanted the full set of dungeon armor, and ALL the weapons for my class, it would go over at least 800 runs.

Unless your class can use 3 different types of armor and every single weapon type, no, you wouldn’t. Even if you wanted to get the 3 variations of your armour type, it would only add up to 144 runs or so (plus the ones for the weapons, but most classes can’t use more than half the weapon types).

But even 120 is bad enough. Not 120 dungeon runs; that’s a bit high but sort of acceptable. The problem is that it must be 120 runs of the same dungeon.