Guild Wars 2

With all the talk of folks feeling disheartened and generally no longer motivated to log into GW2, those who don’t feel the same can’t help but ask “why”… and up until now, I haven’t been able to describe why properly. It’s something that a lot of us feel but few can place exactly- we used to love to log into GW2, but after the Nov 15th update it’s just not… GW2 anymore.

Then, today, I ran across a completely unrelated post from 2011 about Immersion in MMOs that I think hit the nail on the head perfectly for me. The particular paragraph was this:

I’ve been in games where gamers were discussing how they need one piece of equipment because it will will boost another ones str by .3% or something like that. When you start discussing percentages and ratios, crunching numbers, when you basically have playing an mmo down to a science, are you really immersed in the mmo or is this just another type of game play style?

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/312791/Is-it-possible-to-be-immersed-in-an-mmo-nowadays.html

With the end-game heading in a direction of gear progression, when most of us thought it was a gear plateau and based instead on story progression, the immersion of the game suddenly took a fall.

Before, when I logged into my character I knew that, stat wise, he was done. It was no longer about numbers. I had my build, my exotics. My character was, for all intents and purposes, “complete”. This is how GW1 worked; it made sense that GW2 would work the same. From that point on, what I would be working towards was bettering my own player skill, getting whatever looks I desired, and completing whatever story was left. Any content that came out I could do, limited not by my armor like so many WoW clones but by my personal player ability. If I was good enough, I was going to complete the content.

So when that changed, it was a sobering reality. In the end, this game like all the others is about gear as much (or more) than player skill. Without ascended gear, I will not achieve level 20 or 30 of fractals, regardless of how good I may personally be. Without ascended gear, I will not be 100% equal in stats to those who have it in WvW. Suddenly, as with other gear based games, the phrase “more skilled” is synonymous with “better geared”.

GW2 was amazing because it was immersive. Moreso than any other game. But that immersion has been slaughtered.

THAT is why I am demotivated.

The atmosphere of MMOs in general kills my immersion.

Setting out into zones from GW, with only you and your party, are infinitely more immersive than walking into the zone, and killing a champion goon with 50 other random people.

its not the grind,is not enough rewarding loot plus DR, if they want you to farm then let us farm how we want, example killing only x mob because you know it will drop (or has high chance) x item which you want but the mechanics here make this…simple impossible.

JemL.3501:

its not the grind,is not enough rewarding loot plus DR, if they want you to farm then let us farm how we want, example killing only x mob because you know it will drop (or has high chance) x item which you want but the mechanics here make this…simple impossible.

100% this, I wouldn’t be on my way out if we could grind when we wanted to. As it is now there is a cap, then you have to quit playing the game and start playing another MMO.

Even now I get on hit my dungeon cap, log off.

Well I’d rather be immersed in exploring the world and gaming with others that are also in the same areas as myself but sadly it seems the game has taken a different direction. It now seems that instead of being in the world where others would also be playing we’ll be forced into finding parties in-order to do any new game content. Myself I’m finding the waiting 30 minutes or more to find parties or waiting for the " perfect " party is simply not a place I’m going to be spending my time… it sucks.

I guess I’m what you could call a semi-role playing type and I’ve found that even your personal story is tied to these areas. In the end we have to team up to do a dungeon, doesn’t this kind of take the " personal " right out of it ? I mean if we’re going to talk immersion why is the story of Destiny’s Edge something that can only be gained through dungeons ? They have any idea how many players have not even seen that story and been able to see that part of the game’s lore ? Everyone is so hell bent on getting to level 80 and as fast as they can so that only elite areas and end game content is being done for the most part and new game content is and has been pretty much the same thing. Where is our story and the sense of being immersed in the game ?

Honestly if only content that forces me into parties and dungeons are going to be added this is one player who isn’t going to do those and sadly at some point I’ll be forced to decide if I continue to play or leave. I’d much rather be roaming around and doing dynamic events, renowned hearts, and being my character. Instead if I want to be able to achieve the same goals as your so called " elite " players I’ll have to play the trend mill and endure what I have always hated the most about MMO’s.

Ya have to agree about the storyline being trapped inside these dungeons. What if someone never wants to do a dungeon. Someone wants to solo play their heart out. Why do they have to be refused the whole story? At the very minimum there should be something that explains what happen maybe a put together cut scene of what happened in the dungeon.

JemL.3501:

its not the grind,is not enough rewarding loot plus DR

GW1 didn’t have any “rewarding loot”, and it did well for many years across 4 different campaigns.

Games can exist outside of a gear treadmill, believe it or not.

Apathy.6430:

JemL.3501:

its not the grind,is not enough rewarding loot plus DR

GW1 didn’t have any “rewarding loot”, and it did well for many years across 4 different campaigns.

Games can exist outside of a gear treadmill, believe it or not.

I find this hard to believe. No rewarding loot? Like Ectoplasm? Jade Shards? Platinum? Salvaging for loot was just as important in Guild Wars 1. There was just no DR. It’s the exact same system except the people behind GW2 want to put our hands in cuffs when we play to much.

I never actually thought of it this way, but actually that is almost exactly what my issue was on this topic.

The immersion of your own personal skill being the deciding factor whether you succeed or fail, rather than arbitrary numbers on your gear. Yes those arbitrary numbers are important, you need to figure out your build, but after you have your build, then the game is all about you meeting your challenges, not your gear meeting your challenges. And the loot of course… awesome looking loot, because you don’t need arbitrarily higher numbers to be awesome, because you already are awesome and you just need the looks to match.

I, like many others, was eagerly leveling up alts, picking out weapon and armour skins (farming for those very expensive ones), and coming up with new builds (and getting new gear for those alternate builds).

Now with arbitrary numbers increasing arbitrarily, the game is less about making yourself look awesome, and more about re-gearing yourself. My main alt?.. doesn’t look like he’ll be getting Ascended gear anytime soon. My other three alts?… why even bother level and gear them up when I don’t even feel comfortable about finishing my main’s third set of jewellery (because the non-existent third set of jewellery is already outdated for the gear treadmill). As for my other alts that haven’t even been started yet?…. I don’t think I am ever going to unlock those extra character slots anymore, since even my main character is falling behind in gear.

When before the grind was for just being awesome, and showing everyone that I am awesome… now the grind is for arbitrarily numbers. Not as if Lion’s Arch being Overflow City since Fractals was immersion breaking enough.

I also might be a little sour about 90% of my guild suddenly moving back to their previous treadmill MMO’s less than two weeks after the GW2 treadmill started…. especially so since they had agreed that “we’re never going back to ____ again” after they experienced a couple weeks on top of the GW2 gear plateau.

GreyFeathers.8175:

Honestly if only content that forces me into parties and dungeons are going to be added this is one player who isn’t going to do those and sadly at some point I’ll be forced to decide if I continue to play or leave. I’d much rather be roaming around and doing dynamic events, renowned hearts, and being my character. Instead if I want to be able to achieve the same goals as your so called " elite " players I’ll have to play the trend mill and endure what I have always hated the most about MMO’s.

This is what I don’t understand about all the people complaining. Why do you want to achieve those goals? If you don’t want to do fractals then don’t. There’s still plenty of content for you to do. Find a like minded group or guild and do what you want. The guild I’m currently in has everything going on. Some of us do fractals and some of us run around completing zones or doing explorable dungeons or whatever. The option for you to do whatever you want is there, but most of you guys would rather just complain.

I’ve never really been a fan of the true MMO’s and having spent seven years on Guild Wars I, I was one who couldn’t wait to get my hands on GW 2. I bought into the line of " If you like MMO’s you’ll want to try GW 2 and if you hate MMO’s you’ll definitely want to try out GW 2." This might not be the exact words for a quote and I’m guessing the folks at Arena.net are very tired of being quoted at this point but the meaning behind it is the same. I loved the instances in GW 1, it was a place where I could chill and do things on my own without worrying about the antics of other players. It also offered areas like dungeons and elite areas where I could schedule time with my friends and conquer those when I got to it. They were a side part to the story not a part of it. They created " elite " areas for varying character levels and these are spots where some players are simply not going to play. Your personal story should have been just that " personal " and then once explorable was unlocked you could choose to do the dungeon thing if you so desired. They honestly need to move back to the " personal " side of things a bit and give the world of dynamic events, renowned hearts and exploring some love. Forcing parties and making new content only available like that is only going to create even bigger rifts in their game and make other areas pretty much unplayable for role playing types and what I consider the more casual gamer.

Volomon.9147:

I find this hard to believe. No rewarding loot? Like Ectoplasm? Jade Shards? Platinum? Salvaging for loot was just as important in Guild Wars 1. There was just no DR. It’s the exact same system except the people behind GW2 want to put our hands in cuffs when we play to much.

Acquiring a lot of Ectos, Platinum, and Jade Shards took just as much farming/grinding as dungeon tokens do in GW2. The only value ectos, platinum, and jade shards had was buying fancier looking armor. Dungeon tokens serve the same purpose.

Mercucial.6759:

This is what I don’t understand about all the people complaining. Why do you want to achieve those goals? If you don’t want to do fractals then don’t. There’s still plenty of content for you to do. Find a like minded group or guild and do what you want. The guild I’m currently in has everything going on. Some of us do fractals and some of us run around completing zones or doing explorable dungeons or whatever. The option for you to do whatever you want is there, but most of you guys would rather just complain.

How do you not understand that you having arbitrarily higher numbers than someone else does not make that person happy? What if the roles were reversed and YOU are the one to be forced to have arbitrarily lower numbers? And then what if people exclaim how they don’t understand you, since you can keep playing the game with lower numbers?

This is not a difficult concept. If you are trolling then just please stop.

Surbrus.6942:

Mercucial.6759:

This is what I don’t understand about all the people complaining. Why do you want to achieve those goals? If you don’t want to do fractals then don’t. There’s still plenty of content for you to do. Find a like minded group or guild and do what you want. The guild I’m currently in has everything going on. Some of us do fractals and some of us run around completing zones or doing explorable dungeons or whatever. The option for you to do whatever you want is there, but most of you guys would rather just complain.

How do you not understand that you having arbitrarily higher numbers than someone else does not make that person happy? What if the roles were reversed and YOU are the one to be forced to have arbitrarily lower numbers? And then what if people exclaim how they don’t understand you, since you can keep playing the game with lower numbers?

This is not a difficult concept. If you are trolling then just please stop.

Not really sure what you mean because I haven’t stepped foot in a single fotm dungeon and I’m still enjoying the game. I really don’t care what other people have or don’t have. I’m enjoying playing the game the way I’m playing it and once that stops I’ll stop playing, simple as that.

Apathy.6430:

Volomon.9147:

I find this hard to believe. No rewarding loot? Like Ectoplasm? Jade Shards? Platinum? Salvaging for loot was just as important in Guild Wars 1. There was just no DR. It’s the exact same system except the people behind GW2 want to put our hands in cuffs when we play to much.

Acquiring a lot of Ectos, Platinum, and Jade Shards took just as much farming/grinding as dungeon tokens do in GW2. The only value ectos, platinum, and jade shards had was buying fancier looking armor. Dungeon tokens serve the same purpose.

Ya except the DR gives you 0 eventually. That’s a bit of a difference, I don’t know what other games where you eventually get zero of the thing your farming for. That’s our point we want to be able to grind if we want to, not told hey you can’t do that any more. Who’s it hurting if I get better looking gear?

Mercucial.6759:

Not really sure what you mean because I haven’t stepped foot in a single fotm dungeon and I’m still enjoying the game. I really don’t care what other people have or don’t have. I’m enjoying playing the game the way I’m playing it and once that stops I’ll stop playing, simple as that.

Ok then. Basically, competitive players want to have competitive stats. More casual players don’t want to play catch up for gear the entire time. A gear treadmill forces both these groups of players to change what they are currently doing and play catch up at arbitrary times (when the max stat gear is changed to an arbitrarily higher number). This is especially bad for those that are both competitive while having a more casual amount of game time to devote to the game.

You’re particular play style might not be effected by a gear treadmill, but many, many people have a play style that is drastically effected by it.

Surbrus.6942:

Mercucial.6759:

Not really sure what you mean because I haven’t stepped foot in a single fotm dungeon and I’m still enjoying the game. I really don’t care what other people have or don’t have. I’m enjoying playing the game the way I’m playing it and once that stops I’ll stop playing, simple as that.

Ok then. Basically, competitive players want to have competitive stats. More casual players don’t want to play catch up for gear the entire time. A gear treadmill forces both these groups of players to change what they are currently doing and play catch up at arbitrary times (when the max stat gear is changed to an arbitrarily higher number). This is especially bad for those that are both competitive while having a more casual amount of game time to devote to the game.

You’re particular play style might not be effected by a gear treadmill, but many, many people have a play style that is drastically effected by it.

I completely understand where you’re coming from, but like I said if I ever got to the point where I felt like the “gear treadmill” was hindering my experience, and it’s something I did not enjoy participating in, I would just stop playing. Sure it would suck to stop playing a game after devoting so much time to it, but I wouldn’t spend my free time doing something I didn’t enjoy.

Mercucial.6759:

GreyFeathers.8175:

Honestly if only content that forces me into parties and dungeons are going to be added this is one player who isn’t going to do those and sadly at some point I’ll be forced to decide if I continue to play or leave. I’d much rather be roaming around and doing dynamic events, renowned hearts, and being my character. Instead if I want to be able to achieve the same goals as your so called " elite " players I’ll have to play the trend mill and endure what I have always hated the most about MMO’s.

This is what I don’t understand about all the people complaining. Why do you want to achieve those goals? If you don’t want to do fractals then don’t. There’s still plenty of content for you to do. Find a like minded group or guild and do what you want. The guild I’m currently in has everything going on. Some of us do fractals and some of us run around completing zones or doing explorable dungeons or whatever. The option for you to do whatever you want is there, but most of you guys would rather just complain.

It affects my WvW gameplay, my open world gameplay and my dungeoning.

WvW – There will be a stat difference between those with ascended gear and those without. The difference is minor now, but when the full set is released? I wonder. And then when an expansion comes out… will levels be increased? If so, that means the max level gear will be another gear grind. If I were to describe all of this to a GW1 player before Nov 15th, they would say I’m talking about WoW. They would have an impossible time believing that it was the successor to their game.

Open World – This is only temporary, but at the moment still worth mentioning. Everyone is in Factals, or Lions Arch getting ready for fractals. Karma farming is close to dead on my server, Orr being a ghost land. Other dungeons? Fat chance.

Dungeoning – What if I do want to do fractals, for the CHALLENGE and not the grind? To get to the highest levels of fractals, I don’t need to better myself but rather my armor. I need to RNG until my eyes bleed to get the agony resistance necessary to achieve levels 20-30+. That is not at all the game I started playing. If I was of a level to do something, then the only thing stopping me from achieving it was my own player ability… not some pointlessly added number attached to my gear, which I attain my repeating the same task 50+ times.

Mercucial.6759:

I completely understand where you’re coming from, but like I said if I ever got to the point where I felt like the “gear treadmill” was hindering my experience, and it’s something I did not enjoy participating in, I would just stop playing. Sure it would suck to stop playing a game after devoting so much time to it, but I wouldn’t spend my free time doing something I didn’t enjoy.

This I agree with. Which is, unfortunately, why I have stopped playing. And from the looks of the forums, I’m not alone.

We’re still here because we loved what the game was, not what it is now, and we have some desperate hope that maybe this was all just some huge mistake and a middle ground compromise can be found by Arenanet that makes this game once more GW2… and not the themepark clones #5,812 that it is trying to become.

i played gw1 and wow at the same time and i always quit wow for gw1. i got bored with wow because of the elitism that comes from bigger better gear and always looking for a dungeon group. i played on the top server in wow MG for 2 years. but gw1 always took over. i loved how all the gear was the same stats and all was different was how it looked and the runes we put in it. i loved how we could immerse ourselves into to game content with heroes if we chose to or join a group for dungeons and elite dungeons to grind for gem sets and rare weapons to keep or sell for platinum. wow was too much politics and could never find groups for leveling and i hated doing dungeons cause you might not get the gear you “needed.” gw2 has become more like that other game. i waited for gw2 for 6 years! now that its here im unsatisfied about how its turned out. i dont wanna be forced to do dungeons i wanna farm to get the best “lookin” gear and do dynamic events. im depressed for the fact that noone plays gw1 anymore or id quit gw2 and go back

Apathy.6430:

Games can exist outside of a gear treadmill, believe it or not.

Indeed. And what you said bout GW1 proved that exactly.

oney.5067:

i played gw1 and wow at the same time and i always quit wow for gw1. i got bored with wow because of the elitism that comes from bigger better gear and always looking for a dungeon group. i played on the top server in wow MG for 2 years. but gw1 always took over. i loved how all the gear was the same stats and all was different was how it looked and the runes we put in it. i loved how we could immerse ourselves into to game content with heroes if we chose to or join a group for dungeons and elite dungeons to grind for gem sets and rare weapons to keep or sell for platinum. wow was too much politics and could never find groups for leveling and i hated doing dungeons cause you might not get the gear you “needed.” gw2 has become more like that other game. i waited for gw2 for 6 years! now that its here im unsatisfied about how its turned out. i dont wanna be forced to do dungeons i wanna farm to get the best “lookin” gear and do dynamic events. im depressed for the fact that noone plays gw1 anymore or id quit gw2 and go back

If they released a GW1 expansion, I’d be all over it in a heartbeat.

GW2 successfully did 2 things for me: A) made me realize that if I’m going to play a gear grinder, I should play WoW or something more established and B ) made me realize that GW1 really is a unique gem that will never be repeated. Even the company that made it failed to recreate its glory and had to fall back to the industry standards of themepark MMOs.

If they released a GW1 expansion, I’d be all over it in a heartbeat.

GW2 successfully did 2 things for me: A) made me realize that if I’m going to play a gear grinder, I should play WoW or something more established and made me realize that GW1 really is a unique gem that will never be repeated. Even the company that made it failed to recreate its glory and had to fall back to the industry standards of themepark MMOs.[/quote]
i love this comment ty! bring back gw1 or redesign gw2 to be more like it was supposed to (gw1)

GW2 as i thought it would be when bought the game in may a open world with dynamic events and no need for LFG/LFM in chat and no need to worry about treadmill or endless BORING farming.

GW2 started worng with CHEATING goldsellers and constant dungeon runs.

Result empty pve world majority farm dungeon and nobody cares anymore for events or killing a boss.
treadmill farm and cheaters plus mentality that i thought i would not find in GW2 im very very dissapointed in GW2 and devs:(

I keep playing solo(empty world) from time to time maybe or hopefully someone join up in my adventures in tyria but it looks GRIM:(

Gameworld is so nice and good looking why on earth you guys constantly farm boring instance is beyond me.

DEVS should give better drops and rewards in open world or your game dies slowly and painfull death.

Tolmos.8395:

Mercucial.6759:

I completely understand where you’re coming from, but like I said if I ever got to the point where I felt like the “gear treadmill” was hindering my experience, and it’s something I did not enjoy participating in, I would just stop playing. Sure it would suck to stop playing a game after devoting so much time to it, but I wouldn’t spend my free time doing something I didn’t enjoy.

This I agree with. Which is, unfortunately, why I have stopped playing. And from the looks of the forums, I’m not alone.

We’re still here because we loved what the game was, not what it is now, and we have some desperate hope that maybe this was all just some huge mistake and a middle ground compromise can be found by Arenanet that makes this game once more GW2… and not the themepark clones #5,812 that it is trying to become.

I don’t know about you guys, but my guild’s daily influence gain went from between one and two thousand per day before Nov15 (oftentimes over 2000), to double digits nowadays…. it goes to over one hundred influence per day when a lot of guildies poke their heads into the game (to see that they are the only one online), as then the “x number of members logged in” bonus influence is added to the tally.

Quite frankly it is shocking.

Tolmos.8395:

If they released a GW1 expansion, I’d be all over it in a heartbeat.

As someone who hasn’t played GW1, but has loved GW2 from the betas until November 15th, I would be actually be highly interested in this as well. Assuming they don’t decide to implement a gear treadmill into the game that is.

Oh and pls i realy dont want GW1 its INSTANCE INSTANCE INSTANCE i hate that.

The reason why GW2 is failing becouse of people still playing instance same as all the ex wow players and GW1 players.
GW2 suppose to be different then both GW1/WOW.
If you think GW1 was so good why you guys still dont play it then?

because all our gw1 friends are in gw2 complaining about the same stuff as we are here. so were gonna just stay in gw2 until its better or dies and then linger off to quit gaming until another gw1 comes out.

evasionmoon.1345:

If you think GW1 was so good why you guys still dont play it then?

The same reason we aren’t all playing Pac Man or Super Mario Bros.

All content in a game has a shelf life. GW1’s content has long outlived it’s.

thousands of people played the same gw1 content for 4 years and its audience barely diminished untill the day gw2 came out. it did not have a shelf life it needed an update or xpac.

oney.5067:

thousands of people played the same gw1 content for 4 years and its audience barely diminished untill the day gw2 came out. it did not have a shelf life it needed an update or xpac.

Big Warcraft III fan here. Tough luck, it is never coming. ;_;

oney.5067:

thousands of people played the same gw1 content for 4 years and its audience barely diminished untill the day gw2 came out. it did not have a shelf life it needed an update or xpac.

It clearly had a shelf life if it needed an expansion pack.

And a small segments of plays will actually play any game indefinitely. There’s still people playing Diablo 2 and Starcraft. The vast majority of people eventually move on though when new content dwindles, as it pretty much stopped with GW1 several years ago.

If GW had an expansion the size of GW2, I’d be playing the hell out of it. But am I going to continue playing through content I’ve finished dozens upon dozens of times? Na.

Apathy.6430:

oney.5067:

thousands of people played the same gw1 content for 4 years and its audience barely diminished untill the day gw2 came out. it did not have a shelf life it needed an update or xpac.

It clearly had a shelf life if it needed an expansion pack.

And a small segments of plays will actually play any game indefinitely. There’s still people playing Diablo 2 and Starcraft. The vast majority of people eventually move on though when new content dwindles, as it pretty much stopped with GW1 several years ago.

If GW had an expansion the size of GW2, I’d be playing the hell out of it. But am I going to continue playing through content I’ve finished dozens upon dozens of times? Na.

I wouldn’t even require a graphical update out of it. Just more content to play. =D

If nothing else, Guild Wars may be the last of its kind. A game that doesn’t introduce level cap increases, doesn’t introduce gear grinds… it’s just about playing the story, getting better looks and skills, and bettering your own player ability. I guess GW2 is proof that this no longer sells, so I want to enjoy it as much as I can while I can.

Tolmos.8395:

With all the talk of folks feeling disheartened and generally no longer motivated to log into GW2, those who don’t feel the same can’t help but ask “why”… and up until now, I haven’t been able to describe why properly. It’s something that a lot of us feel but few can place exactly- we used to love to log into GW2, but after the Nov 15th update it’s just not… GW2 anymore.

Then, today, I ran across a completely unrelated post from 2011 about Immersion in MMOs that I think hit the nail on the head perfectly for me. The particular paragraph was this:

I’ve been in games where gamers were discussing how they need one piece of equipment because it will will boost another ones str by .3% or something like that. When you start discussing percentages and ratios, crunching numbers, when you basically have playing an mmo down to a science, are you really immersed in the mmo or is this just another type of game play style?

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/312791/Is-it-possible-to-be-immersed-in-an-mmo-nowadays.html

With the end-game heading in a direction of gear progression, when most of us thought it was a gear plateau and based instead on story progression, the immersion of the game suddenly took a fall.

Before, when I logged into my character I knew that, stat wise, he was done. It was no longer about numbers. I had my build, my exotics. My character was, for all intents and purposes, “complete”. This is how GW1 worked; it made sense that GW2 would work the same. From that point on, what I would be working towards was bettering my own player skill, getting whatever looks I desired, and completing whatever story was left. Any content that came out I could do, limited not by my armor like so many WoW clones but by my personal player ability. If I was good enough, I was going to complete the content.

So when that changed, it was a sobering reality. In the end, this game like all the others is about gear as much (or more) than player skill. Without ascended gear, I will not achieve level 20 or 30 of fractals, regardless of how good I may personally be. Without ascended gear, I will not be 100% equal in stats to those who have it in WvW. Suddenly, as with other gear based games, the phrase “more skilled” is synonymous with “better geared”.

GW2 was amazing because it was immersive. Moreso than any other game. But that immersion has been slaughtered.

THAT is why I am demotivated.

I was never immersed in the game. Im not playing it as much because its boring..ascended pieces or no ascended pieces my friends left because in the end its repetitive nonsense. Not everybody cares about hunting for a suit..how immersing is that? Ive yet to read a legendary tale where the great conquering hero says “yeah this armor is awesome..but would look so much better in baby blue, yeah!!”

I never got into Gw1 either, I played GvG and then left it and did something else. Always seemed like a second rate RPG to me, if I wanted a band of heroes Id play a DnD game.

oney.5067:

thousands of people played the same gw1 content for 4 years and its audience barely diminished untill the day gw2 came out. it did not have a shelf life it needed an update or xpac.

problem is people have to sign off on those, you guys talk like Arena net made money hand over fist and could do anything they wanted. If it were true..you would be playing the game you imagined and they would be creating content for only one type of player, fact is..it wasnt. They have exceeded every financial metric they imagined for this game even up to and including the disaster that was the last live event.

Ditton.3149:

Ive yet to read a legendary tale where the great conquering hero says “yeah this armor is awesome..but would look so much better in baby blue, yeah!!”

At the same time I have difficulty seeing some legendary story’s hero saying “Ok guys, I know we just finished clearing out that cave and and saving the town from total destruction, and I know what I’m about to say makes no sense whatsoever… but let’s go do it again! Someone in there might be wearing a legendary chestguard of smashing, and I need that for my set!” or see them say “Hang on guys, I need to kill 20 more lions out here in jungle so that I can increase my physical strength by buying a new set of boots! Because boots obviously make me stronger!”