Guild Wars 2

i can only jump as a Norn. my Charr was just started, so we’ll see how i fare there ; ))
i guess i just got used to it, so when i went to human orsylvari, the camera angles were definitely better, but then i felt i was always barely making the jumps (visually, which i assume many of us do rely on).

but good to hear these details will be taken into account for future JP’s, all of which i say, BRING IT ON!!! can’t wait, Josh.

AriadneRaynor.7362:

The only problem I have is that (as you said) the JP’s weren’t meant to be “real content”, but as a bonus.

Now, they’re suddenly required to finish a monthly.

If they’re required, they should be tweaked or repaired so that all races can have a true chance to do the puzzles without the player becoming outrageously annoyed and frustrated due to things the player has no control over.

Or they shouldn’t be required to be done…ever…as they are “bonus” content only.

Thank you for your consideration in this.

=/ Ignoring the fact whether finishing monthlies are “required” or not (especially that one did not reward laurels)

They did take it into consideration, considering you didn’t have to actually do the JP, just had to discover it.

Sorry but i love doing jumping puzzles. They always are in my first to do list when new ones come out. But is it possible to remove badges from WvW jumping puzzles. I do not mind you add more but just remove the badges from the chest please.

DeadlyRush.1620:

Sorry but i love doing jumping puzzles. They always are in my first to do list when new ones come out. But is it possible to remove badges from WvW jumping puzzles. I do not mind you add more but just remove the badges from the chest please.

So those of us not good at tagging in WvW but need a Gift of Battle have to work even harder?

Gee, thanks.

Signet of Forums.4397:

AriadneRaynor.7362:

The only problem I have is that (as you said) the JP’s weren’t meant to be “real content”, but as a bonus.

Now, they’re suddenly required to finish a monthly.

If they’re required, they should be tweaked or repaired so that all races can have a true chance to do the puzzles without the player becoming outrageously annoyed and frustrated due to things the player has no control over.

Or they shouldn’t be required to be done…ever…as they are “bonus” content only.

Thank you for your consideration in this.

Actually, the way that monthly worked was odd. You only needed to “discover” them. For some it meant finishing them, but for others all you had to do was get somewhere near the entrance. Also, you could “discover” the same one with multiple characters and I’m pretty sure that you could re-“discover” the same one with the same character each new day (when dailies reset). That achievement was odd all around.

I wasn’t too fond of that as part of the monthly achievement either way, but I just figured I’d clarify that. I guess I’ll still take that over needing to play tournament games for the PvP monthly. I have never finished a PvP monthly because I have zero interest in tournament games, at least for now. I just like my PvP a bit more laid back (and ideally with less drama), I guess.

Also heard you cold abuse Lion’s Arch’s normal overflow state and log in and out and hit different servers and it would count.

Rajani Isa.6294:

DeadlyRush.1620:

Sorry but i love doing jumping puzzles. They always are in my first to do list when new ones come out. But is it possible to remove badges from WvW jumping puzzles. I do not mind you add more but just remove the badges from the chest please.

So those of us not good at tagging in WvW but need a Gift of Battle have to work even harder?

Gee, thanks.

We have to run dungeons in PvE. Your point? We WvW players also have to do more PvE to get a legendary. Is getting 500 badges that hard? 1 month of WvW should get it for you.

I give a lot of criticism and usually just happily enjoy the changes when they are made in game and “forget” to post about them on the forum, but I wanted to throw this in here.

Thank you for not put in a wait between JP attempts. If I talk about how much I disliked that in the Halloween and Wintersday JPs (I chose not to complete either of them after having to wait a few times) I would venture into an ugly rant full of hyperbole, so I will just say thank you for designing the new JP without wait times. I’m sure I will find something new to hate in it, but emulating the check outs at Christmas while all your friends are calling you from the pub asking where you are and what’s taking you so long, this won’t be one of them.

Look at WoW, it has first-person view and I have never seen any youtube video with someone playing with that camera. I dont think they did anything to the animations or weapons, they simply fixed the camera infront of the character and called it a day, and that was enough to make players happy.

We have to run dungeons in PvE. Your point? We WvW players also have to do more PvE to get a legendary. Is getting 500 badges that hard? 1 month of WvW should get it for you.

Yes, getting 500 badges is that hard. I’ve been doing far more WvW than I care to in the effort to get World Completion and to get the 50 kills per month for most monthlies, and I’ve racked up several hundred kills, but I’m still only at well less than 100 badges. It would take me years to earn 500 badges purely through combat, and I definitely wouldn’t care to try. Even farming the jump puzzles is more hassle than it should be.

Yes, you can simply compare the situation to the camera in other MMO’s. I have never encountered a problem with the camera in an MMO except in GW2. The problem is not really the camera and JP’s, it’s simply the camera.

I can’t help but think that the solution to the problem with the current jumping is pretty obvius..

Add a npc or a “vending machine” outside the current jumping puzzles that gives the player a 30m buff that decreases his size, or if thats to much work just make it a 30m buff that turns him into a asura.

I don’t see why it has to be made so complicated as reworking the entire JP, or giving up on fixing the current issue.

Thanks for the answers Josh, sorry aspects of the community insist on creating extreme points of view just to prove that they’re right.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

I don’t see why it has to be made so complicated as reworking the entire JP, or giving up on fixing the current issue.

Well of course you don’t see it. You haven’t participated in the many many design meetings that I’m sure Josh has attended and discussed this issue ad nauseam.

You really think you know more than the devs? It’s okay to give suggestions, but to imply that some suggestions are “obvious” is to really denigrate the time and effort devs actually spend on creating this game.

Ohoni.6057:

We have to run dungeons in PvE. Your point? We WvW players also have to do more PvE to get a legendary. Is getting 500 badges that hard? 1 month of WvW should get it for you.

Yes, getting 500 badges is that hard. I’ve been doing far more WvW than I care to in the effort to get World Completion and to get the 50 kills per month for most monthlies, and I’ve racked up several hundred kills, but I’m still only at well less than 100 badges. It would take me years to earn 500 badges purely through combat, and I definitely wouldn’t care to try. Even farming the jump puzzles is more hassle than it should be.

And please tell me where would WvW players get T6 mats? I play 2 hours a day and get around 20 badges a night. I think its your playstyle. I think i don’t like PvE as much as u don’t like WvW but doing PvE is the only option i have to make a Legendary. Why can’t you all follow us also? Play WvW properly to get your badges not just jump along some 2 minutes puzzle for them.

It is obvious because char transformations are already clearly possible.

Cliffside, mystery potions, various quests and events etc.

It is also a fact that it is often the most obvious solutions that are the easiest to overlook.

I mean no offense toward the devs ability to create content etc, and I doubt they were offended by my reply.

It is however very cute that you got all hot and bothered about it, and felt you had to protect them from the big bad ignorant wolf.

Josh Foreman.8250:

One issue that a non-developer would not know is the difference between creating a single-player game and an MMO. So it’s easy to look at Uncharted’s camera or Skyrim’s camera and say “Why don’t they just do it that way?” In fact, a lot of us artists DO say that to the coders. And then we get taught a lesson in how incredibly more complex an MMO engine has to be. The sheer amount of dependencies on any one system is staggering, and there is hardly ever a time where a programmer slaps their forehead and says “Oh, I never THOUGHT about just doing like Skyrim!” There are always REASONS that our systems are the way they are. None of this is to say that all our systems are perfect and our team is perfect and nothing will improve. Of course we aren’t perfect, and we are just as frustrated by the limitations and quirks as you are.

I don’t compare GW2 to Skyrim. I compare you to WoW. WoW is not only an MMO, it’s the best selling MMO in history. One BIG reason is because Blizzard nails the controls. WoW is a more complicated game with many more systems than GW2, yet they manage to get their cameras spot on. Why can’t you?

An awful lot of the camera issues with jumping puzzles could be solved with two simple changes to the cameras. More zoom and 1st person view. Those two things would reduce headaches for nearly every odd angle and tight space in a JP. 1st person lets you look around without the camera pushing through your characters head and zoom allows you to pull back to see around corners and up steep grades. Why don’t you just do that?

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

It is obvious because char transformations are already clearly possible.

Cliffside, mystery potions, various quests and events etc.

It is also a fact that it is often the most obvious solutions that are the easiest to overlook

What happens in the JPs that require combat? Give these transformation attacks? How do you balance these attacks? How do you change it so that you can only use the transformation inside the JP? What if players also want to use their swiftness skills?

Just a few thoughts that come to mind. I’m sure there are a myriad of coding issues that they have to deal with as well.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

I mean no offense toward the devs ability to create content etc, and I doubt they were offended by my reply.

You’re a professional in the field. And you have your client telling you “Can you do this? It’s pretty obvious/easy, no?” That kitten is annoying, yo.

It’s ok to suggest things. Please don’t talk like it’s easy to do. You don’t know that.

One of my examples were cliffside transformation, primarily I was talking about transforming you into one of the pre-existing races, as they already have the required animations etc for the concern you bring up.

Even as a proffesional in a field you would be dense to think you incapable of overlooking solutions to a problem, in your field of expertise.

Real Life Example: Truck manages to get stuck in a small tunnel, proffesionals work for hours on a solution. A child walks by and sais “Why don’t you let the air out of the tires?”

Amusingly enough this actually happened in the small town I grew up in.

Something can have a obvious solution without that solution being obvious to everyone.

As for it being EASY to implent, never said it was easy.. but it is obviously well within the limitations of the engine based on stuff that is already present in the game.

That it does not take a proffesional to realise.

The reason I felt a need to comment on this in the first place is that based on the devs replies it very much seemed like there were no plans of a actual fix to the current jps, outside of just fixing smoothning, infact the general vibe i got from his comment were that the current jps were already written off.

As such they were obviously missing a very real possibility that is well within the limitations of what they can do.

PS: At this point im just using “obvious” to anoy you :p

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

The reason I felt a need to comment on this in the first place is that based on the devs replies it very much seemed like there were no plans of a actual fix to the current jps, outside of just fixing smoothning, infact the general vibe i got from his comment were that the current jps were already written off.

And that is obvious a good reason to make the suggestion you did. I don’t know if the solution is simple to implement. I don’t even know if I like the solution. But if it is the only solution for some existing jumping puzzles then I will probably like it.

About the issue of combat as another character. There is already a fractal you fight as a Charr. Both my Sylvari Ranger as my Human Guardian have no problem with that fractal. I can use all the skills I want and still be a Charr. Only problem in that fractal is that I always end up as an ugly Charr, instead of a cute one

Ohoni.6057:

We have to run dungeons in PvE. Your point? We WvW players also have to do more PvE to get a legendary. Is getting 500 badges that hard? 1 month of WvW should get it for you.

Yes, getting 500 badges is that hard. I’ve been doing far more WvW than I care to in the effort to get World Completion and to get the 50 kills per month for most monthlies, and I’ve racked up several hundred kills, but I’m still only at well less than 100 badges. It would take me years to earn 500 badges purely through combat, and I definitely wouldn’t care to try. Even farming the jump puzzles is more hassle than it should be.

I don’t have WvW completion yet, don’t always fight in the front lines, and I play an obscure non-damage spec for the engineer which makes tagging kills for the badges a happy accident instead of something one could strive for.

In about a month’s worth of WvW whenever I felt the inclination and doing WvW jump puzzles only 3 times I’m sitting on about 400 badges. Edit: which is oddly enough the timeframe the guy you replied to mentioned.

Legendaries are about mastering aspects of the game, WvW is an aspect of the game. If anything they shouldn’t give out so many badges in the jump puzzles… except maybe EB puzzle cuz it gets nuts in there.

I sure wish I could do PvE moderatly for about a month, I’d have a legendary already.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Rifter.6591:

Anet cant program a camera properly(or design a puzzle properly, either way it comes down to broken/lazy coding)

Grumpdogg.6910:

Step 1: Dedicate time, effort, talented devs and resources to create jumping puzzles.
Step 2: Promote Jumping Puzzles as a big feature of the game.
Step 3: Change the camera at the last minute to break all of the jumping puzzles and half of the vistas.
Step 4: Launch the game because “it’s ready”.

Here’s how it worked. I started putting little jumping challenges into my maps several years ago. About a year and a half ago Colin and a couple other designers decided that these were fun enough to turn into some kind of bonus content. About a year ago all the other map artists were told to put a bonus jumping challenge or two in all their maps. We were in our polish phase and these were never intended to be anything more than small diversions for people who like platforming. Not a lot of time was dedicated to this because it was seen almost as Easter Eggs. Just fun little hidden places to discover. As such, JPs were never advertised as primary content, never included in world complete, never required for any story step, and never containing loot that could not be obtained elsewhere.

Because JPs are such a minor part of the game, specific camera issues that are primarily caused by them are not super high on the list of systems that demand the camera code bends to their needs. This does not mean that JP camera issues are ignored by the programmers who work on the camera, simply that they have to prioritize things. And while I’m not happy with the way the camera works because I spend a lot my time doing JPs, I know the engine optimization guys are not happy either because part of the compromise they have to make with us JP guys means that there are places where the world drops out because the camera can get through the occlusion planes. If the optimization guys had it there way 100% the camera would never even get close to a wall and we would build all our maps as flat planes with waist high walls. (Not that they actually want that, but that would be the ideal for avoiding world-dropping bugs) Since the camera has to serve two or three masters, who all want it to do different things, its current implementation is a compromise. This is not due to laziness or bad coding. We simply don’t hire lazy people or bad coders, and we get rid of any who show that tendency.

One issue that a non-developer would not know is the difference between creating a single-player game and an MMO. So it’s easy to look at Uncharted’s camera or Skyrim’s camera and say “Why don’t they just do it that way?” In fact, a lot of us artists DO say that to the coders. And then we get taught a lesson in how incredibly more complex an MMO engine has to be. The sheer amount of dependencies on any one system is staggering, and there is hardly ever a time where a programmer slaps their forehead and says “Oh, I never THOUGHT about just doing like Skyrim!” There are always REASONS that our systems are the way they are. None of this is to say that all our systems are perfect and our team is perfect and nothing will improve. Of course we aren’t perfect, and we are just as frustrated by the limitations and quirks as you are.

So yeah, had we been inflexible, we would have not allowed JPs in the game because they expose weaknesses in the camera. Had we been omniscient, we would have planned the camera from the start to work with the extreme geometry that JPs have. Had we been perfect, maybe we could have come up with a solution to work for all the systems at once perfectly. We are none of those things. What we are is a bunch of people who love making this game and who are constantly looking for ways to provide interesting and new kinds of content. That means pushing against the limits of what our engine can do, then iterating the engine to try to keep up with the design ideas. It’s a process, not and end point. There will never be a point at which we are all happy with the game and declare it to be the perfect representation of our design wishes.

I’m currently in a conversation with the latest ‘owner’ of the camera system and we’ll see what comes of that.

Bravo.

Why can’t all issues be handled like this post? There are so many issues that get brought up sometimes and we are given canned responses that literally make the situation so much worse, because if feels like we are being treated like children. This post talked to us like people, not customers. It actually answered questions instead of avoiding them (and in laymen’s terms, no less). And you even gave us solid information that you are actively trying to make a fix for a problem so many players want.

I really wish all big-ticket issues were handled so well (like cross-region guesting for example).

How about this as a solution? A shrinking font at the entrance. It can be in the form of a bottle with “drink me” written on it. Drink from the font, the player shrinks, does jumping puzzle. When the player leaves the zone, the buff wears off.

Done.

Just a short “Thank you” for all the gorgeous jps out there – since I got a new computer, I love them. Like “Big huge love with tons of hearts” . ^^
Great way the questions, concerns and issues were handled in this thread. Thanks for that as well.

Josh Foreman.8250:

[…]
Haha… no. No that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying it’s not a simple matter to do what you are saying. And even if it was, I doubt most of us would be happy with the results, simply because it would feel like a half-implemented system. Which is what you are describing. This is not to say that all the systems we’ve ever implemented were 100% perfect. That’s obviously not the case But they are always a completely DESIGNED system. Whereas your proposal would break a lot of things.

Quite often a partial system that solves a lots of issues while adding a few is better than having those issues around, if the issues caused are preferred by the users over the issues solved.

Josh Foreman.8250:

I totally understand that. But most people would still get into combat while in FP and then we’d need to figure out what to do there. Can of worms.

You already have ways to alter the camera temporarily (e.g.: Boss fights) and events for entering and leaving combat.
Just rig third person to be disabled and unavailable during combat, until a better solution is found.
That way roleplayers, photographers, jumpers, parkour enthusiasts, and explorers in general would have at least something without affecting combat.

Josh Foreman.8250:

No. All characters have identical collision and hit boxes. The only difference they have on the system side is the camera target, and that is what causes all the trouble in JP race discrepancies. If they didn’t then you would be staring at your Norn’s butt all day, or only see the very top of your Asura’s head.

Going with the boss cameras again, why not simply setting the area of the jumping puzzle to have a fixed camera too while you are in there, by having a trigger at the entrances and exists to the puzzle that set the camera that way while you are out of combat?

Oxe.6142:

WoW is a more complicated game with many more systems than GW2, yet they manage to get their cameras spot on. Why can’t you?

Do you even understand the words you are typing? How, in any form, is WoW “a more complicated game with many more systems than GW2”? This comment shows a total lack of understanding of both games, not to mention the systems required to make them.

Oxe.6142:

An awful lot of the camera issues with jumping puzzles could be solved with two simple changes to the cameras. More zoom and 1st person view. Those two things would reduce headaches for nearly every odd angle and tight space in a JP. 1st person lets you look around without the camera pushing through your characters head and zoom allows you to pull back to see around corners and up steep grades. Why don’t you just do that?

You do not have to journey far. Go to the first page of this forum post and read each of Josh’s replies regarding the camera. Your question: “Why don’t you just do that?” shows that you have simply not read his comments.

Quote:

What I can promise is that moving forward, as I make new JPs..

Conclusive proof that this is actually JUMP PUZZLE 2 and nothing to do with the far superior GUILD WARS (1).

That and he let slip there will be more JP’s in wvw if I read it right when the new wvw supermap is completed- so instead of listening to the majority of wvw players who want them removed they are going to add more…..

Dev, take this to the head dev: the VAST MAJORITY of wvw players want JP’s REMOVED from wvw- make it their own instance, whatever, don’t care what you do with them just get them out of wvw and stop screwing up the queues for people who actually want to participate in mainstream wvw.

If I had wanted a platform jumping game I could have bought one of 200+ Mario games which are all basically platform jumping games.

A first person camera would fix most of these issues.

My main is a norn and I’ve done most of the jumping puzzles with him. I stopped doing them because I’m waiting for the the first person camera that was promised us and never delivered.

And please tell me where would WvW players get T6 mats?

You casn get them on the TP. What’s the going TP rate for Badges? If that bothers you then you can argue that T6 materials should be easier to get through WvW activities, I won’t argue against you, but don’t argue that things should be harder for other players just because you find other things harder for yourself argue to make the things you find annoying better.

Legendaries are about mastering aspects of the game, WvW is an aspect of the game. If anything they shouldn’t give out so many badges in the jump puzzles… except maybe EB puzzle cuz it gets nuts in there.

I wish people would stop saying this. Legendaries are “about” having weapons that have fancy glowy effects and look cool, they are not “about” mastering every aspect of the game. That’s just elitist BS. All the first batch of Legendary owners “mastered” was having a lot of friends to send them money and power them through difficult content.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Here’s how it worked.
… [cut long text ]…
I’m currently in a conversation with the latest ‘owner’ of the camera system and we’ll see what comes of that.

I’m very impressed by your answer! It is for me a masterpiece how communication have to be between developers and the community!
It is not a blah blah with no content, you give us a short but nice and good view, how things have been developed. You don’t tell us just “it’s not the way how it works” but tell enough for everybody to understand the main issues and have an idea about the challenges.

Again, i’m very impressed! A very good answer and it is highly appreciated!

Geikamir.6329:

Josh Foreman.8250:

Here’s how it worked. I started putting little jumping challenges into my maps several years ago. About a year and a half ago Colin and a couple other designers decided that these were fun enough to turn into some kind of bonus content. About a year ago all the other map artists were told to put a bonus jumping challenge or two in all their maps. We were in our polish phase and these were never intended to be anything more than small diversions for people who like platforming. Not a lot of time was dedicated to this because it was seen almost as Easter Eggs. Just fun little hidden places to discover. As such, JPs were never advertised as primary content, never included in world complete, never required for any story step, and never containing loot that could not be obtained elsewhere.

Because JPs are such a minor part of the game, specific camera issues that are primarily caused by them are not super high on the list of systems that demand the camera code bends to their needs. This does not mean that JP camera issues are ignored by the programmers who work on the camera, simply that they have to prioritize things. And while I’m not happy with the way the camera works because I spend a lot my time doing JPs, I know the engine optimization guys are not happy either because part of the compromise they have to make with us JP guys means that there are places where the world drops out because the camera can get through the occlusion planes. If the optimization guys had it there way 100% the camera would never even get close to a wall and we would build all our maps as flat planes with waist high walls. (Not that they actually want that, but that would be the ideal for avoiding world-dropping bugs) Since the camera has to serve two or three masters, who all want it to do different things, its current implementation is a compromise. This is not due to laziness or bad coding. We simply don’t hire lazy people or bad coders, and we get rid of any who show that tendency.

One issue that a non-developer would not know is the difference between creating a single-player game and an MMO. So it’s easy to look at Uncharted’s camera or Skyrim’s camera and say “Why don’t they just do it that way?” In fact, a lot of us artists DO say that to the coders. And then we get taught a lesson in how incredibly more complex an MMO engine has to be. The sheer amount of dependencies on any one system is staggering, and there is hardly ever a time where a programmer slaps their forehead and says “Oh, I never THOUGHT about just doing like Skyrim!” There are always REASONS that our systems are the way they are. None of this is to say that all our systems are perfect and our team is perfect and nothing will improve. Of course we aren’t perfect, and we are just as frustrated by the limitations and quirks as you are.

So yeah, had we been inflexible, we would have not allowed JPs in the game because they expose weaknesses in the camera. Had we been omniscient, we would have planned the camera from the start to work with the extreme geometry that JPs have. Had we been perfect, maybe we could have come up with a solution to work for all the systems at once perfectly. We are none of those things. What we are is a bunch of people who love making this game and who are constantly looking for ways to provide interesting and new kinds of content. That means pushing against the limits of what our engine can do, then iterating the engine to try to keep up with the design ideas. It’s a process, not and end point. There will never be a point at which we are all happy with the game and declare it to be the perfect representation of our design wishes.

I’m currently in a conversation with the latest ‘owner’ of the camera system and we’ll see what comes of that.

Bravo.

Why can’t all issues be handled like this post? There are so many issues that get brought up sometimes and we are given canned responses that literally make the situation so much worse, because if feels like we are being treated like children. This post talked to us like people, not customers. It actually answered questions instead of avoiding them (and in laymen’s terms, no less). And you even gave us solid information that you are actively trying to make a fix for a problem so many players want.

I really wish all big-ticket issues were handled so well (like cross-region guesting for example).

+1

excellent explanations by Josh, and an excellent response from Geikamir. kudos to both of you.

DeadlyRush.1620:

Rajani Isa.6294:

DeadlyRush.1620:

Sorry but i love doing jumping puzzles. They always are in my first to do list when new ones come out. But is it possible to remove badges from WvW jumping puzzles. I do not mind you add more but just remove the badges from the chest please.

So those of us not good at tagging in WvW but need a Gift of Battle have to work even harder?

Gee, thanks.

We have to run dungeons in PvE. Your point? We WvW players also have to do more PvE to get a legendary. Is getting 500 badges that hard? 1 month of WvW should get it for you.

I seem to be lucky to get 4 badges per foray into WvW not counting the JPs.

and that’s running with zergs.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Can’t just switch camera systems. The system is the way it is in order to accommodate a number of systems including an occlusion system that makes things on the other side of walls not render, and messing with the camera collision can push it through walls then you end up with half the world disappearing at random times. This is just one of the important systems that need the camera to behave a certain way. In the big picture, having the world drop away is higher on the priority list than making all the jumping challenges feel good. It would have been nice to have had a final camera when most of the JPs were being built, but the occlusion system didn’t get in until near the end of production, so we couldn’t have foreseen the crazy camera demands it would have. We can make little tweaks to the existing JPs, but that’s got it’s own can of worms associated with it, like introducing new bugs. As to a First Person Cam, I would LOVE it. But that’s ANOTHER big can of worms, as we would have to create a new system for how we reconcile the direction of the camera to the orientation of the player’s face as they do all sorts of crazy maneuvers like back-flips, cartwheels, 720 spins, etc. Not to mention dealing with how to render the weapons and attacks which were not created with that viewpoint in mind.

Dear Mr. Foreman,

I have found a way to solve the camera issues in jump puzzles. I just took one of my halloween tonics I had laying around, used it on my charr, and managed to finish it under a humanoid form because my camera wouldn’t kitten out around my player model anymore this way.

What I would suggest for jump puzzles is adding some sort of “totem” at the start of jump puzzles which transforms norn/charr/asura jumpers into humanoids (this form could have a speed boost skill in its build for player convenience).

Adding a totem like that shouldn’t take to much changing in the maps (I think), it wouldn’t require the camera system to be changed and you could still design a jump map without having to adapt it to Norn/Charr standards (which may cause trouble for Asura, Human & Sylvari players). So yeah, that’s the rundown of my idea. Thanks for your attention

Best regards,

Thomas De Corte (aka Dropkick Dex)

I can’t do JPs sad face I just aint that talented. (Although if you want a REALLY good laugh, watch me attempt one sometime. Very entertaining, bring popcorn)

Still, kudos to Mr Foreman for all the responses and explanations he’s given us. Even going so far as to explain to those who blatantly attacked the developers, which he really didn’t have to do.

The wife and I have found that even some of the jumps heading up to vistas are difficult on large characters such as Norn and Char and even at times Asuran. We have had no difficulty with our Human or Sylvari characters.

Here is one possible solution. There is already one jump puzzle where your character size changes as you progress through the puzzle, I cannot remember which one it is but if once you reach the starting point on any JP a dialog box pops up allowing you to change the size of your character to small, medium or large then it would not entail having to reset cameras etc. It would also allow a person to select the size of character he/she is most comfortable doing JP’s with. Once the end of the JP has been reached you revert to your normal size.

Edit: I see my slow typing skills has allowed someone else to beat me to the punch

Potion to turn you into an Asura (jumping works)

“Sinister Automatonics”

Enjoy!

Edit: Also seems to increase your movement speed some…

I deeply appreciate the dev input here, thank you Josh! A lot of people really don’t understand programming, much less game programming, and your explanations hopefully help people understand a little bit more of the problem.

That said… if the current camera system has all these occlusion issues… it needs a spanking. A serious one. Because huge amounts of stuff clip out when not occluded (see the Black Citadel, East of the BLTC), and yet, when my camera DOES manage to get behind something… it actually seems to work just fine.

Other games have dealt with this problem before… I’m sure you guys can figure out something. Tweaking the current JPs, and designing future ones with the wonky camera in mind will help, but… it would be better if the fundamental problems were addressed, so that the environment and gameplay don’t have to suffer.

I -like- the claustrophobic sense of the Troll JP in LArch, but… it’s nearly unplayable as a Charr.

Thanks for addressing this, and talking with us about it.

EDIT: A quick addendum – I suspect 90% of your audience would be happy with 1st person acting exactly like the current camera – just zoomed in a little more, and hiding the body & weapons. Nothing fancy about flips, jumps, or weapons… just let us SEE!

could even limit First person view to out of combat, and if you get into combat it resets to normal view?

__
anyway, all I wanted to say was, thanks for the comments Josh. Always great seeing devs take some time with the community ^^

With my main being an asura, I certainly have no problems with the camera.

However, I know what you’re going through. A buddy of mine plays a large charr and whenever we’re doing a jumping-puzzle together, he blocks my view.

Though it may be a bit off-topic, I’d like to share some frustration for jumping puzzles as of lately. To be more precise, timed stuff like the holiday-jps and especially the zephyr sanctum.
I love the “explorer-jps” where you have to have a keen eye to find your route, or where old ruins are repurposed. I’m more of a slideshow-jumper who enjoys a spectacular view, rather than this hectic stuff. The zephyr sanctum is terrible, even though it’s not hectic. However, with these strange “hit-boxes” for some of the landing-points where “ground” and model seem dislodged, a pixel can mean death or success…well…not fun.

Also the imbalance between classes. I loved the early version of the lightning-teleport for my elementalist, before it was nerfed to a shadow-step…or feeling like a powerful earth-mage when obsidian flesh made my char imune to traps in jps.
Warriors and rangers who took giant leaps with their skills…so long ago it seems.
Engineers can still rifle-jump, mesmers got their portal and necros have this back-porting should the necro fall into death.

This is a year-old necrothread.

Sartharina.3542:

This is a year-old necrothread.

your point is…? it may be a year old, but it’s till up and the post about the knave tonic helped me, and i found a better tonic so i shared it. thus bumping the post so you found it and probably saw what i said, as many others probably did. so being a year old, it still helped someone.

Sartharina.3542:

This is a year-old necrothread.

Its a nice reminder of the time when devs still posted on these forums.

The forums is a nice reflection of the game’s lore. I think of it like Arah.

Worst parts of jumping puzzles with non-Asura:

Bumping your head on ceilings obviously not well-conceived.
Charr stance not matching their actual position, then slipping off a ledge. Many of the puzzles have very tiny platforms that are wildly inappropriate for larger characters.

This is why My Charr has an Endless Princess Doll Tonic on him at all times! Makes jumping a breeze.

Josh Foreman.8250:

As such, JPs were never advertised as primary content, never included in world complete

But what about Vistas ? They are needed for world complete and they also suffer from camera problems.

Sartharina.3542:

This is a year-old necrothread.

Yes….but Necro is a class in the game….

I certainly find that my Asura can do Trolls End MUCH easier than any of my other toons…..but that may just be mental block I have. I do perform a LOT of other Jumping Puzzles on my Norns and it’s mostly just frustrating (but possible).

Thats why i have made a tiny human mesmer, and no norn again or a charr.
Also i always cary an endless cat tonic with me, but its sad that i have to use such stuff just because i dislike asura.

Sartharina.3542:

This is a year-old necrothread.

(Shrug)
Made me look up Sinister Automatonic for my Norn and Charr characters. Necro threads are only pointless when people necro threads that are no longer relevant or just to say something useless.