Guild Wars 2

Source:

http://www.twitch.tv/purpleishawt/v/6461231

at 00:29

Precision 1664 :: Crit chance: 35.61 %

The resulting formula is: Crit chance = (Precision – 916) / 2100

The CURRENT formula: Crit chance = (Precision – 832) / 2100
Currently with 1664 you get 39.61 %

That’s a 4% nerf to critical chance given the SAME level of precision.

Yes but can’t you get higher precision now because of the increase in stats and the way specializations work?

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Yes but can’t you get higher precision now because of the increase in stats and the way specializations work?

That’s what I’m thinking

Well ok, it’s not that I’m complaining about anet nerfing crit chance. I’m complaining about the non-transparency when this kind of patch is getting out.

The idea is: previously, they said that all base stat (Power, Precision, Vitality and Toughness) got buffed from 926 to 1000, in compensation for removing the trait-attribute thing. Sound great right?

But in reality, they are buffing only Power, Vitality and Toughness and INTENTIONALLY scale precision back so that 1000 precision is still scaled with 4% critical chance. Yes, I would prefer this formula instead of dividing by 25 (oh god).

But the thing is this SHOULD have been mentioned when they told us about the buff but in reality they do not buff. In fact when everything is considered that the 74 points you missed out were part of your trait attribute that should have been compensated is now practically not there, it IS A NERF.

Base stats are being increased from 926 to 1000 (+8%), all the places where you currently have precision are also being increased (other than trait-lines).

Therefore, 1664 (non-trait granted) precision today is not the same as 1664 precision tomorrow.

[edit] also, wouldn’t it make more sense to complain about “non-transparency” tomorrow when they’ve actually posted the notes.

So wait, gear that has condi damage on it is not receiving the 30% increase? Only P/T/V? where was that mentioned at?

I’m tempted to change my generic greatsword warrior into a generic axe warrior. I like things which appear to make axes closer to greatswords in terms of damage.

What I’m wondering though, with all those extra stats being distributed as we see fit, is how how much toughness with the average beserker be losing by going full zerk? If we lose any more armor by choicefully putting it into damage, our glass cannons are going to crack under minor temperature changes.

Stuff like this really upsets me. Why give us stats just to make them less effective?

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Yes but can’t you get higher precision now because of the increase in stats and the way specializations work?

Yep, but the nerf makes it worth less. So, basically, while they technically buffed precision (base and on gear) to cover for the atribute from traits loss, they also rebalanced it so the new value from base and gear gives the same % as the old value. That additional % crit chance from traitline? You lose it.

jonG.8369:

So wait, gear that has condi damage on it is not receiving the 30% increase?

It does, but it’s really hard to say how it affects condi, since the effect of this trait got rebalanced as well. Comparing it to old values is meaningless.
(but to give you a hint, the old condi damage of 0 is supposed to be the same as the new condi damage of about 700).

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Yes but can’t you get higher precision now because of the increase in stats and the way specializations work?

Nope .. you get +84 stats on your character i think, but we loose 300 from the
old precision line.

Also critchance scales again weird when mentored down.

And the new signet mastery buff from warriors also behaves strange. Runs out
mostly before the 60 seconds and even when it shows more than 1 stack my
critchance doesn’t get higher.

Noticed this as well. I do not like it – hope it will get fixed/changed and we get our old crit chances back.
I don’t see a reason for this.

Kaz.5430:

[edit] also, wouldn’t it make more sense to complain about “non-transparency” tomorrow when they’ve actually posted the notes.

Aaaannnnnd it’s not in the patch note. Obviously, they don’t want us to know this.

Also, Anet, what’s the point of giving us +74 precision (1000 from 926) and then change the formula to take it away anyway? Is it to make the number look BIGGER?

So basically you don’t compensate precision for us at all for taking away the attributes from trait line.

The official formula is currently this one.

Also for those who are interested. The stats from equipment are as followed (in the format [Major, minor, minor, total infusion]

Old: [1087, 745, 745, 70] with the total being: 2647
New: [1382, 960, 960, 70] with the total being: 3372

The difference being 3372 – 2647 = 725

Everyone also gained 74 points from power, toughness and vitality and supposedly precision (but in fact not precision): so the total amount of stat compensated is: 725 + 3 × 74 = 947. Although Anet would like to claim that it is: 947+74 = 1021.
Precision formula change however make that realistically only 947.

However note that to some, this might not be a buff. It’s actually is a nerf.
If you remember, we had 14 trait points. Take guardians for example, previously we could dump 6 points into zeal to have +300 power, +300 condition damage, and 6 points into valor to have +300 ferocity, and +300 toughness. Then 2 points into radiance to have +100 precision. That is a grand total of 1300 points.

We have actually lost 1300 – 947 = 353 stat points after the patch in this example.

Astralporing.1957:

Comparing it to old values is meaningless.
(but to give you a hint, the old condi damage of 0 is supposed to be the same as the new condi damage of about 700).

my understanding was that old condi damage of 700 is the same as new condi damage of 700.
If you have less than that, you’ll do less damage than under the old system. if you have more, you’ll do more damage (than you were doing with an equal amount of condmg)

see, what you quoted is exactly what i’m drawing my conclusion for. assuming your condition damage doesn’t change between the old system and the new, 700 is the ‘break even’ point. ie, they scaled down the base because condition stacking means that conditions from people uninvested in the stat are more effective than previously, so the base damage of each condition needed to go down. But, in order for condition damage to actually be worthwhile, as this change was designed for, the scaling had to be increased, and so 700 was chosen as the ‘break even’ point where you wouldn’t notice a difference between the new and old systems.

Edit: according to the talk page of the condition damage wiki page, bleed used to do 65 damage at lvl 80 with no condmg, and now would do 64 damage at 700 condmg, which agrees with your assessment rather than mine

I just did the math, and this means that you would need an absurd 4250 condition damage to get bleed to tick for as much under the new system as the old. That… really doesn’t seem like it could be balanced

Astral’s actually QUITE wrong. The article said that comparing the old formula and the new formula, you’d need a condition damage stat of ~700 for a given condition to deal the SAME damage with both formulas. The actual value is closer to 680 post-patch. Further, the changes to the formulas means that post-patch, 0 condition damage deals LESS damage than pre-patch 0 condi. On the other end of the scale, 3k condi damage deals FAR MORE damage post-patch than pre-patch 3k condi damage.

edit (almost used burning as an example, woops)

Bleeding formula pre-patch:

(0.05 * Condition Damage) + (0.5 * Level) + 2.5 per stack per second
(0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80

Bleeding formula post-patch:

(0.06 * Condition Damage) + (0.25 * Level) + 2 per stack per second
(0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 per stack per second at level 80

Basandra Skye.4031:

Astral’s actually QUITE wrong. The article said that comparing the old formula and the new formula, you’d need a condition damage stat of ~700 for a given condition to deal the SAME damage with both formulas. The actual value is closer to 680 post-patch.

Check your math. Let X = condition damage, and set the two equations equal to each other to find the equivalence point.

0.05X + 42.5 = 0.06X + 22
20.5 = 0.01X
2050 = X

So you need 2050 condition damage to break even in the new system. At least for bleeds. That… is actually quite high. Most of my condi builds sit around 1450 pre-might, and thus need 20 stacks of might to do equivalent condition damage.

As far as the rest of the thread goes… this is something that concerned me with the patch before it went live. A lot of our stats have fairly simple relationships with each other, but there’s a set of hidden values that can be adjusted to change things and pull the wool over our eyes. The formula for damage is Damage = Weapon Strength X Power x Skill Coefficient / Armor. This leaves us with several additional mods to look out for.

#1: Weapon Power.
#2: Skill Coefficients.
#3: Base armor value
#4: Base HP
#5: Healing Coefficient

Good news is, Anet didn’t do too much with the new update. The only changers were to precision, and a last minute one to bleed.

that bleed one hurts though. i thought my bleed ticks seemed smaller, though i have seen some ones i just can’t fathom (like over 6k)