Guild Wars 2

…E.b.on Vanguard Greatsword. It’s beautiful and sleek. Stately, and yet artful. But most importantly, it feels like a small accomplishment.

I hit 80 on my second Guardian last night—Valerie Cross. Her story is that she’s an ex Ebon Vanguard, wounded in battle just before the Queen’s treaty. So, right off the bat, there’s some emotional investment in getting myself a good weapon from the Ebon Vanguard, like a symbol of my character’s achievements.

I equipped myself in a full set of rares (barring jewelry and sigils) at 80 for about 1.5 gold. My gear “grind” was essentially done. With these rares, I’m instance-ready. There isn’t a single PVE dungeon I can’t do, and no content for which I am underequipped.

This is a huge paradigm shift for me. After six years of hardcore raiding in World of Warcraft, of a model of “endgame” that meant no piece of equipment was ever special, no piece of equipment ever truly meaningful, and every gear slot, every item, every epic was just a stepping stone to the next inevitable upgrade. Where the transience of gear atrophied its own feeling of “specialness.”

This is one of the few times in an MMO I’ve actually felt “done.” Where I’ve reached (reasonably close to) the peak of my character’s equipped gear, and all that remains is to do as I please. Now I have the luxury of hunting down rare and beautiful items because of how cool they look. Now I have the luxury of doing as I please, rolling an alt, taking it easy, kicking back.

The concept of endgame is something we’ve created, together, players and developers alike. Tier after tier after tier of gear, endlessly. The feeling of being “done,” I realize, doesn’t bore me at all: it liberates me. There is no Sisyphean exercise in constantly gearing up and upgrading ad nauseum.

Consequently, I can take a moment and really appreciate the feeling of lasting, permanent and real accomplishment in forking over the not insubstantial amount of karma that went to my beautiful new greatsword.

There’s been a lot of talk about endgame and loot tiers, so I just felt like sharing an anecdote.

(Disclaimer, because this forum seems pretty inflammable lately: This post is just an anecdotal expression of a moment of clarity and fun experienced by me, the player of Valerie Cross. It is NOT an indictment of the community’s criticism toward or defense of the “endgame.” It is not, except purely tangentially, a participation in the “endgame” debate.)

Edit: Screenshots!

Congrats

Been keeping my eye out for a nice looking dagger(s) to work towards soon as I complete my tier 3 set here.

Nice i just got the pirate shortbow skin I love it-almost got ebon but the pirate fit my look better

Grats

My kind of endgame

Eveningstar.6940:

This is a huge paradigm shift for me. After six years of hardcore raiding in World of Warcraft, of a model of “endgame” that meant no piece of equipment was ever special, no piece of equipment ever truly meaningful, and every gear slot, every item, every epic was just a stepping stone to the next inevitable upgrade. Where the transience of gear atrophied its own feeling of “specialness.”

I think this is a very perceptive comment, and it’s a point that those who decry the absence of “endgame” here seem to miss.

The aspect of “endgame” that’s to do with challenging content requiring high skill from maxed-out characters, and team co-ordination – that’s fine, and GW2 should probably have more of that.

But the aspect of “endgame” that’s about something called “gear progression” has always seemed to me to be a bit strange, in view of the fact that any “ultimate” gear is always invalidated by the next cap rise, or expansion or whatever. Is that really “progression”, or just a treadmill?

Yeah, I rather like the idea of a character at cap being “finished”. Not just from the above point of view, but from the point of view of some kind of semi-“realism”. It just never makes sense, to me, to have some insane pocket in a virtual world where mobs get tougher and players get tougher, constantly, endlessly … it’s just a blatant money-spinner.

IOW, to me, the idea that there’s an end to my character’s progression, and that ultimate weapons and armor really are ultimate, feels quite right.

I’m feeling a little paralyzed with 80 gear, hesitant to go with a particular brand of exotic because it’s so final. In other games, sure I’ll spend my dkp on a sword, I can always get a dagger as a later upgrade. And usually you couldn’t choose the exact stats, cuz you had to rely on drops. Here, I can get Carrion or Berserkers or etc. Choose wisely, cuz you’ll never get an upgrade!!!

Eveningstar.6940:

(Disclaimer, because this forum seems pretty inflammable lately: This post is just an anecdotal expression of a moment of clarity and fun experienced by me, the player of Valerie Cross. It is NOT an indictment of the community’s criticism toward or defense of the “endgame.” It is not, except purely tangentially, a participation in the “endgame” debate.)

Quite possibly the best conclusion to a forum post. Ever.

I also agree with the whole thing. Played WoW for 4 years and in the space of 1month GW’s has ruined me for other MMO’s. xD

Here here. I just finished spending several hours kitting out my 80 Asura Engineer and 80 Norn Guardian with rares and a few exotics from the Trading Post and what I had collected from zone completion rewards. I spent about 3g on each character. With careful choices and use of transmute stones I’ve got a look I’m happy with too, for now. Of course this isn’t the end of the story, there is gear out there I want to try to obtain, but all in my own good time.

As the OP says, this is truly liberating because now I know I can take on any content I like because my stats are decent, and whilst my gear can and will get better it will be incremental improvements and cosmetic changes. Sure, in the long run it’ll be nice to have full exotics and a legendary weapon. But for now what I’ll mostly be chasing is fun and aventure in PVE and WvW, not stressing about the gear treadmill.

I also like that it is pretty easy to gear up at 80. It seems like it is only the hardcore epix farmers from that game that starts with a W who is complaining at the moment. I play to have fun with friends not to get some virtual item to make me feel good.

Now there still is progression to make for me but that is only cosmetic and that is fine with me. Looking good is fun.

Ups and downs the whole way, but at level 80 I’m still going strong. Grats on achieving your goal, now I want to do the same. I really have identified with the Order of Whispers in the game (I did join them too).

What, all that and then no screenshot of your character?

I am jelly.

I just dinged 75 earlier, halfway to 76 now. Seeing as it’s 5am, I think bed time is in order. Hoping to grind out those last three and a half levels tomorrow so I too can start working toward my exotic set and nifty skins.

I feel the same as you, Eveningstar. It’s nice knowing that you don’t have to continuously ’keep up with the joneses’ in order to have fun. I’ve been this way through a variety of MMO games, and often times I get stressed out thinking ’Okay I hit this benchmark, but now I have to do this, this, and this to get on par with everyone else’.

My favorite pastime is PvPing. I do it for fun. I just love a good duke-out to test myself. The last three MMO’s I’ve been too, it was a major gear grind at the endgame, just to get on level with everyone else. Days, even weeks, of being beaten to a pulp just for those last few pieces to give me the endurance to not be one shot by someone with better equipment.

The way end game is here, makes this a perfect MMO for me. it’s a relief not to have to worry about keeping up constantly. it gives me more time, more freedom even, to just... have fun at my own pace. Whether it’s finding my perfect look, perfecting my build and learning my profession, or even just sitting around to RP.

It’s a great feeling.

Anyhow, sleep calls. Congratulations on your new ’upgrade’ I hope you continue to enjoy yourself at end game.

Nice thread. Genius opening post

I love this. And I love that you’ve crafted a story to your character. I do this as well, and it adds so much satisfaction to the game.
It would be great to see a picture of your character, and the sword.
Many thanks for this thread.

Fantastic post, Eveningstar. I totally agree…I’m feeling the same sense of liberation and enjoying every minute of it.

Owing to requests, I have added some screenshots, which are also available in the original post.

“This is one of the few times in an MMO I’ve actually felt “done.””

Do you mean that literally, as in “finished the game”?
To put it differently: do you play the game to get the gear, or do you get the gear to play the game?

check out the wardens greatsword from the salad people pretty awesome looking

helladoom.4317:

“This is one of the few times in an MMO I’ve actually felt “done.””

Do you mean that literally, as in “finished the game”?
To put it differently: do you play the game to get the gear, or do you get the gear to play the game?

It is both actually. You go out do something and are reawrded with gear that gear then makes it easier to do the next something and which you are rewarded with gear. Gear is a tool and a token of prestige for besting a challenge

wookie slayer.4259:

Gear is a tool and a token of prestige for besting a challenge

How does that work out once you have the best possible gear?
What does it mean not to be able to get more tokens of reward for besting a challenge?

helladoom.4317:

“This is one of the few times in an MMO I’ve actually felt “done.””

Do you mean that literally, as in “finished the game”?
To put it differently: do you play the game to get the gear, or do you get the gear to play the game?

This is something of a false dichotomy for me, because gear itself doesn’t factor hugely into why I play the game. ‘Getting the gear to play the game’ is the mindset I was unfortunately under while raiding in WoW. I didn’t feel all that accomplished picking up a Tier X weapon, because I knew it wouldn’t last; I was just using it so I could gear up in Tier X so I could get past the gearcheck that let me move on to the content that gave me Tier X+1, which wasn’t special either, because I just needed that to get to Tier X+2, which would let me grind out Tier X+3, which would be useless by the next expansion anyway.

My point is this: My stats are more or less done. Sure, I could maximize them with exotics—and I will—but a full set of Rares is more than enough to get past any challenging PVE content in this game.

So, for me, that effectively decouples gear from performance. I can already perform well in every level of PVE content, so now I’m free to do what I want. Collecting rare weapon/armor skins is just part of that.

Because the game is not dependent on gear, I guess that means I play the game to get the gear. This is a fundamental change in the endgame mindset for me.

@ OP: I got the tier 1 Ebonhawke Longbow. I hope you got the tier 1 version as it is the same skin. I was bummed too, because there is a vendor that sells some of these skins with different names for karma too. Great sword though.

Iason Evan.3806:

@ OP: I got the tier 1 Ebonhawke Longbow. I hope you got the tier 1 version as it is the same skin. I was bummed too, because there is a vendor that sells some of these skins with different names for karma too. Great sword though.

Yes, definitely picked up the Tier 1 skin for 9800. Kind of sad that the more expensive skins don’t look any different, but charge a disproportionate amount of Karma for stats that aren’t unique.

Wish I could use a longbow. The Ebonhawke longbow looks great!

Nice post! I’m still not working on my “look” since I’m leveling the rest of my toons but I’m anticipating the last stretch finding the skins that will make my toons ¨mine¨.

Is there anymore Cultural stuffs outside of main race towns? Human ones are all ugly as hell.. D; (To me, don’t get offended)

Grats btw.

I know there are at least 2. Lion’s Arch has a cultural vendor, and so does Ebonhawke.

Lovely post and story. I love the backstory as well.

Eveningstar.6940:

I know there are at least 2. Lion’s Arch has a cultural vendor, and so does Ebonhawke.

Oh thanks, never noticed the cultural weapons in LA. The sad thing is that all of the 3 tiers are the same at LA. Ebonhawke too. Oh well.

Can’t all the culture weapon skins be found on the low level heart vendors?

I love my EV skinned crafted Explorer’s GS of Luck. I just wish its black parts were… black, it really stands out in a bad way if you’re wearing black armor. Also that I had something worth killing with it that wasn’t getting killed by 10 bots before I can get close enough to hit them making me log off in frustration with an ever growing feeling that the Anet I always loved has been replaced in full by ncsoft’s worst and dullest.

On a less gloomy note, I would definitely suggest using those rares to help you make the money to buy some crafted exotics before considering yourself instance ready (assuming you mean ready to farm them.) The difference is night and day, and you’ll still be getting melted for making a mistake wearing exotics in the later dungeons. In rares it’s just so masochistic you won’t even technically need to make a mistake in the first place.

Your moment of clarity is still perfectly true though, those exotics can be had in less than a week of casual play.

Are you sure? Totally honest question here. I’ve been running Caudecus Explorable and Ascalon Exploration (Ghost and King path) with absolutely no problems at all. On average I might get killed once or twice a run, tops.

Does it get much harder?

My experience so far with dungeons, is that the #1 most important part to success isn’t gear, it’s the player wearing the gear. There is a truly massive gap between the average pug player who maybe-sorta knows what he’s doing, and a good player who can adjust to the fight and support the group all while staying alive. There is a pretty decent gap between rare/exotic gear, but it’s not as big as the gap in player skill a lot of the time.

I was in a AC explore run not long ago, and we had a 35 warrior with us. I would assume he was in a mix of blues/greens since he was only lvl 35, and he hadn’t run the place yet. He listened to our tips about what to watch out for on bosses, and he out performed one of the other 80s we had with us, who just kind of derped his way through and got carried by the rest of us.

Eveningstar.6940:

‘Getting the gear to play the game’ is the mindset I was unfortunately under while raiding in WoW. I didn’t feel all that accomplished picking up a Tier X weapon, because I knew it wouldn’t last; I was just using it so I could gear up in Tier X so I could get past the gearcheck that let me move on to the content that gave me Tier X+1…

I use the term “gear” to refer to its primary importance: the stats.

Few people put on gear with poor stats just because it looks better, but instead (certainly at lower levels) settle for gear that does not necessarily look the way they want but has the stats they need.

By “getting the gear to play the game” i mean that the player is content when he has the gear that he needs (stat-wise) even when playing the game is then no longer rewarded with gear that has yet better stats. Imo getting gear for the looks of it is another matter.

I share your sentiments regarding the gear treadmill, but i’d call that “playing the game to get the gear (because of the stats)”.

I can already perform well in every level of PVE content, so now I’m free to do what I want. Collecting rare weapon/armor skins is just part of that.

Looks like what you want is play PvE content for token rewards; gear for the looks of it, not for yet better stats.

Because the game is not dependent on gear

It is gear dependent insofar that certain content is practically undoable without gear with good stats; on-level gear, preferably green or better, regardless of the looks.

In order to “perform well in every level of PVE content” you need gear with good stats, which you have acquired.
To me that is ‘you got the gear that you need so that you can do what you want’ or “getting the gear (stat-wise) to play the game” (which, in case it matters to you, is perfectly fine with me).

i thought you were gonna say
and you found out you can just buy it off the tp for 1 silver

I had the same satisfaction in GW1 but that game didn’t have the huge grind to get max stat items. After deleting all my Prophecies toons when Factions came out because I liked their appearances better, I felt sad I didn’t have a character to represent Ascalon and the beginning of my journey in Tyria. Despite moving geographically, the story always felt centered around Ascalon (which becomes even more true in EotN) so I created a warrior, made him my survivor toon (and eventually my GWAMM). Despite not being the oldest character on my account (I didn’t even have my first character) he was important because he represented Ascalon. After completing Legendary Survivor (at the time it was like reaching level 99 in Diablo 2 without dieing, if you died you recreated) I bought him Elite Charrhide armour as a kind of throw back to the struggle with the charr. Armours were added over the years but I always kept the charrhide armour (and the bear pet I tamed in pre-searing) despite other options because it had meaning and it was an accomplishment for me.

I’m saying this all because I want to point out that despite having max armour and max stats easily and early on in the game, I still bought the elite charr hide armour. I still played him years later. Despite having an easier way to tame the bear pet (it’s a normal tame in the shiverpeaks, in Ascalon it requires some tricky work) and having the option of getting new pets over the years (including the rainbow phoenix) I kept the bear.

This kind of nostalgia, this kind of character building has nothing to do with gear grind or treadmills or hard core raiding. I don’t come from that gaming or MMO background and I can assure you, these kinds of stories aren’t about grind or the lack of it.

Am I misunderstanding something, but in WoW did you feel accomplished only if you acquired some equipment and not from beating those certain encounters? Isn’t it basically the same thing raiding/grinding for stat equipment and grinding equipment for looks when the content gating has become pretty minimal considering how minor step it is nowadays to do raids in WoW. Also to me the allure of MMO’s is that they are never “done”.

My ultimate goal is a vanity set involving t3 armor, just the chest, so 30g is a far off number, however I’m at the point where I can work at that goal and not be spending money left and right getting my character’s stats maxed. It’ll be like getting my first GW1 prestige armor all over again: Looking fancy and feeling like you earned every peice of that armor.

The OPs post is full of win. While I havent and probably wont spent gold on a rare set, just to replace it with exotics in the near future, he/she has played the game as it was meant to be played…rather, they have the mindset of how it should be.

I commend you for this and thank you for restoring my faith in humanity (in particular on these forums which are saturated with negativity)

I really enjoyed this thread, i cant wait to hit that moment of feeling “done” as well

Yea, AC and CM are the two easiest dungeons IMO, they really do get harder. Remember even the explorable versions of these are meant to be doable by people at those levels, in that level gear. And you’re going in there with enough armor rating to get downscaled to max, and level 80 gold substats. Once you’re talking about the level 80 dungeons it’s a different story.

There’s an argument for knowing how to dodge sure but guardians will always be taking hits with their low range and especially if they’re performing one of their best roles (balling foes for aoe.) Although this holds true for anybody melee’ing, you will get hit no matter how good you are. And at later dungeons, those hits nyerking hurt.

This awesome post contains no pic of said Guardian. I am disappointed

Screenshots are in the first post, but I’ll go ahead and attach one too. I’m pretty horrible at taking good screenshots though.

Ooo, that’s a cool looing guardian you have there.

Thanks so much! And thanks for the feedback about dungeons. I was under the impression AC Explore was one of the harder ones, owing to all the complaints about it. But I imagine it’s pretty difficult for players going into in their late 30’s.

I’m looking forward to working on my Exotic set. I doubt it’ll take very long—I’m a 400 Armorsmith, and I have a 400 Jeweler and 400 Weaponsmith too, and there’s really no hurry at all. I’m not competing against a new tier of gear, which is a relief.

Going to give WvWvW a bona fide shot too. I really think I can make Guardians work wonderfully over in the Eternal Battlegrounds. It’s just going to require a change in thinking and a change in spec.

Ha! You think you like Guardians? Please, step aside Junior. I wrote the book (Guide) on Guardians. I’ll see your Guardian and raise you another Guardian!! I’ve been leveling Guardians since before you were born!!!

But seriously, why did you level another Guardian to 80? I’m curious.

Hah! I know, it’s crazy right? My first Guardian was Teresa Harcourt. I ran to 80 with a close friend of mine; we duo’d the whole way through. Me, Guardian. She, Thief.

I wasn’t satisfied with my character’s appearance and name, and didn’t want to wait for a rename/remodel service. Plus, I wanted to try a new route, go to 80 a new way, try some new crafts, and take it nice and slow. As an added bonus, I’ve tried to stay entirely in-character more or less the whole way to 80. It’s a lot of fun, actually! I had some great encounters with other players while out on the field.

I like this new Guardian a whole, whole lot, and I’m going to stick to her. No real plans to alt just yet.

Cool, right on! I’m glad you’re happier with version 2.

I did the same thing for appearance/name reasons with a level 11 Guardian.

Also, to your main point in the OP, I agree. I have all the gear I want stat-wise and the feeling of freedom is quite nice for a change.