Guild Wars 2

First off let me say thank you A-net for bringing me a game that I feel is a ever changing world and really fun to explore. With most games I never spend much time in most maps cause of how they shuffle you along the yellowbrick road to end game. In your game I do feel free to explore and travel the world how I see fit.

One thing I do not not understand though is the amount of those here that complain about the changes that you have done to the game. Your world changes to some extent a lot and to others the impact is very minor but enough to feel that change anytime I go to the maps that are now changed. Things many other games do not do is change the world and how it might effect it can improve the game a lot more and make it feel more alive.

I really I like the structure and features now except the new hero UI no offence to the one that did it I know they worked kitten it but wish it was like the old one with a new symbol for wardrobe next to the dye symbol instead would of made it a lot better. But now we must wait on news of whats to come and soon I hope even though I know it will not be until china launch’s which is fine.

I know you have some big things coming or you would not of put in so many changes to the system for us to enjoy for now. I just hope that what ever it is you do not forget the world you already have in place and still work to change it as well. Thank you for this great and wonderful world you built us and hope to see you all in game.

On the topic of complaining. It’s incredibly easy to see the general mood of a forum and say it’s complaining. Truthfully, some are complaining just to complain. But it mainly matters how someone phrases the complaint. The more constructive it is, the better, cause there are reasons/suggestions/whatever being thrown in, not just discomfort.

I know in game, some people say that you can’t say anything but praise, or else you get infracted. I’m pretty sure I’ve out right raged at ANet before in my forum posts over the length of the game, and never received one.

It’s easy to hate on something and not give any backup as to why. Anyone can do it. It takes a bit time to phrase why something isn’t good, why it should be changed, and possible methods to do it. Whether they listen to it, who knows? There’s a ton of stuff for them to sift through, so I don’t blame them either.

This game has a number of different playing styles and every single change implemented will impact these styles both negatively and positively at the same time. It’s refreshing to read a forum that is populated by intelligent discussion (constructive criticism) but far too often, it’s just juvenile nastiness. The rule of thumb should always be: would you talk that way if the person you were addressing were standing in front of you? Eliminate that, push for constructive criticism as opposed to silly little “I hate it” posts and you have what I think the OP is talking about.

Rymer.4017:

One thing I do not not understand though is the amount of those here that complain about the changes that you have done to the game. Your world changes to some extent a lot and to others the impact is very minor but enough to feel that change anytime I go to the maps that are now changed.

I think the core issue is that allot of people try to persuade devs to implement/emulate systems from their favorite games.

Here’s an anecdote: Today I talked with a friend who left GW2 for Wildstar and who is a hardcore PvEr.
We talked about pros and cons of GW2 and Wildstar, and pretty much everything he listed about Wildstar as a feature sounded to me like something I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole (for example gear grinding through dungeon tiers for better equipment).
After a while I wanted to ask him why did he spend so much time struggling with GW2 since allot of the “features” in GW2 go against his favorite play style.

This is the same kind of attitude you can see on these forums in almost every section… Why is there no holy trinity, lack of tiered gear grinding, lack of instanced raids etc. People come from other games with their own definition of “fun” and “proper way of doing things” and they’d like to mold GW2 into it, not caring (or not being able to comprehend) that different people have different mindsets. Then they get frustrated when their suggestions are not being given attention leading to one more popular complaint: “devs never listen to us”, which was proven incorrect on so many occasions.

All that being said, there is always room for improvement, and GW2 is far from a perfect game, but before asking for a change one should ask himself if that change would fit the “spirit” of the game, and if the answer is positive give his suggestion in a concise and thought out manner. I’ve seen countless suggestions implemented from these kinds of discussions.

It was a complement to there work is all.

It is important to remember that while anyone can have opinions, not everyone knows how to formulate them constructively; it’s not exactly a skill taught in K-12, unless you’re in art school or on the debate team. In addition, not everyone can explain why they like or dislike something.

Using the art school example, I was taught that saying “I like it” during a critique is a big no-no because it provides absolutely zero insight of benefit to the artist, but if I don’t understand color theory or the importance of balance and form, I have little hope of being able to explain why I like the art piece.

The only solution is to grow a thick skin and find value in criticisms where one can. Very few people complain just to complain; they’re usually trying to communicate a frustration or grievance, but might not know how to. Perhaps when these posts appear, we should engage the poster and attempt to uncover the reason for the complaints before dismissing them.

Yeah I understand most of what all you say really I do but to me being someone who has played MMO’s sense the days of Ultima Online, The Realm, and Meridian I do not complain about changes I see them for what they are changes for things to come not good or bad just change. So to me I think its for the good or at least I hope it is until we see what is to come I do not see a reason to get upset about things like this. We all could come on here a discuss what we do not like and all agree its something we would not have done but we do not make that choice the company does so we have to role with the punches even if we do not like them. Because coming here and saying things like this change or that change changed they game does nothing for the masses that are in game playing and enjoying for what they see. Its one person with others who ether agree or disagree that is not going to solve it or fix it. It is venting to others hoping that they change the game to fit one to 100 others needs out of thousands or even millions of others who do not come here until players have one voice these changes will happen and nothing will change it.

Sorry not trying to come off rude or anything but maybe its from years of gaming I just do not complain anymore to changes companies make that I can not control the out come to. As for others wanting content from other mmo’s I think that is just people wanting more then people liking and comes in all things not just games but everything. Again sorry if I come off rude its not my nature to it might just sound that way.

playfuldreamer.1920:

It is important to remember that while anyone can have opinions, not everyone knows how to formulate them constructively; it’s not exactly a skill taught in K-12, unless you’re in art school or on the debate team. In addition, not everyone can explain why they like or dislike something.

Using the art school example, I was taught that saying “I like it” during a critique is a big no-no because it provides absolutely zero insight of benefit to the artist, but if I don’t understand color theory or the importance of balance and form, I have little hope of being able to explain why I like the art piece.

The only solution is to grow a thick skin and find value in criticisms where one can. Very few people complain just to complain; they’re usually trying to communicate a frustration or grievance, but might not know how to. Perhaps when these posts appear, we should engage the poster and attempt to uncover the reason for the complaints before dismissing them.

Oh yes I do agree whit this and I do understand critique I write so I do understand that. And I see your other points.

We complain because we care.

Once we stop, the game’s either World’s First Perfect MMO, or dead. The latter being far more probable.

I think almost everybody would agree that in general, the people who are enjoying the game are in-game, enjoying it.

Many of the comments here (and in any game forum) are gripes or complaints that something isn’t right for the poster.

I think we can also all agree that there is a big difference between “Please fix (X) because it’s causing (Y) to happen, which I think is not working as intended” and “I want you to add (Z) to the game or I’m gonna /ragequit!”

Complaining isn’t necessarily bad in and of itself. General complaints about specific issues along with their corresponding solutions isn’t the same as demanding that a feature be removed or added like a spoiled child.

Unfortunately, there are those who frequent the forums who not only seem to be incapable of putting a coherent sentence together but they have to put forth their concerns in a way that makes them sound like all they’re doing is whining because they can’t have their way. Many of them don’t even play the game any more.

We can’t stop these type of posts, but we can ignore them. Responding only fans the flames into a full blown wildfire.

Ashabhi.1365:

I think almost everybody would agree that in general, the people who are enjoying the game are in-game, enjoying it.

Or have this mystical thing called a second monitor/’windowed mode or are at a place where they cant play the game at the time and are providing feedback.

TO paraphrase another post.

People who dont enjoy the game are less likely to post as they dont care. Those who do care make the effort to get on the forums to post.

I complained for a long while because I thought things were out of balance for my class. I’m done now because I’m officially enjoying the game. Thank you, ANet.

I believe the Devs are human, like all of us, and can appreciate positive feedback just as much as constructive critical feedback. There is nothing wrong with posting you are in favor of a particular implementation of content or features. When I prepare meals for the family, I receive both kinds of feedback (though not always constructive..lol..kids), and from that feedback I know what to continue to serve, and what isn’t appreciated. If I got no feedback whatsoever, I would be unsure if something was enjoyed, even if it was consumed.

Besides, we all appreciate positive reinforcement, just as we can learn from feedback that is not so positive. Just my personal opinion, of course.

When it comes to forums, complaining solves nothing. Backbiting certainly solves nothing. Making demands solves nothing.

Make suggestions! Don’t just say that something is broken, say why, with numbers, stats, metrics. Or at least make a good emotive argument that doesn’t involve the kittens coming out.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I believe the Devs are human, like all of us, and can appreciate positive feedback just as much as constructive critical feedback. There is nothing wrong with posting you are in favor of a particular implementation of content or features. When I prepare meals for the family, I receive both kinds of feedback (though not always constructive..lol..kids), and from that feedback I know what to continue to serve, and what isn’t appreciated. If I got no feedback whatsoever, I would be unsure if something was enjoyed, even if it was consumed.

Besides, we all appreciate positive reinforcement, just as we can learn from feedback that is not so positive. Just my personal opinion, of course.

devs are employed by a company, well at least anet devs, since they are not an indie company, that means in order to keep professionalism, they are not allowed to have opinions, and their only focus should be earning money for the company.

Usually most of the feedback in these forums are insightful for them, but they are not allowed to take it into account or at least not fully, unless it matches the interests of the shareholders of NCsoft.

Positive feedback might be appreciated, but it will make absolutely no difference, just like most of the feedback here.

Lishtenbird.2814:

We complain because we care.

Once we stop, the game’s either World’s First Perfect MMO, or dead. The latter being far more probable.

There’s a massive difference between complaining and providing feedback from a negatively affected point of view. Take the following for example:

“OMG, this megaserver and boss schedule means my guild cant do bosses anymore whenever we want to, we dont care about the consumable because it doesnt help us run bosses RITE NAO.”

VS.

“This update impacts the ability of the guild I’m in to run the raid level bosses for all of our members, especially considering there are over 3000 members among our ‘conglomerate’ guild. Additionally, the guild consumable is not a valid, or effective, solution due to our guild members being on all 24 NA servers across 6 different guilds, and Anet’s decided lack of fixing the guild chapter problem. Furthermore, it will take close to 2 months and 5k gold to get the influence necessary on a single server for each guild, and this does not touch on the necessity of merits in the consumable. Finally, the guild I am a member of runs this raid bosses a total of 42 times a week. The cost of the consumable severely limits running the world bosses as they only spawn the boss on a single instance.”

Which one do you think the devs prefer working from, and players prefer reading?

Pie Flavor.1647:

devs are employed by a company, well at least anet devs, since they are not an indie company, that means in order to keep professionalism, they are not allowed to have opinions, and their only focus should be earning money for the company.

Usually most of the feedback in these forums are insightful for them, but they are not allowed to take it into account or at least not fully, unless it matches the interests of the shareholders of NCsoft.

Positive feedback might be appreciated, but it will make absolutely no difference, just like most of the feedback here.

Simple business logic dictates they take all reasonable feedback into consideration. How else does a company adapt and evolve their product so people continue to use it? If they merely accepted positive feedback, they’ll lose customers and profit because they are not dealing with the problems other customers have, and eventually even those that gave positive feedback would choose to leave.

Why do you think Anet does bug fixes (even if they come too slow for some people)?

Personally, I’m tough, but I’m fair. When they make a change that positively affects the community, I give them credit for it. When they make a change that negatively effects the community, I call them out on it.

For example, I’m not a GvG player, but I did tell Devon Carter he did a very good job by creating an arena in Obsidian Sanctum for GvG players to play. I’ve also called them out numerous times on the Commander and Squad system, because it’s something that’s been needing improved since before the game even launched and so far, no improvements have come.

I give feedback in both regards, unfortunately, most of what I’ve been able to say has been negative. I’m not going to lie to them, because that doesn’t do any good for anyone involved.

You know when I noticed that the complaints skyrocketed was, when people started to realize how much money they made off the release of this game. People come to GW2 from all walks of life. You’ve gotta realize that goes both ways… there’s alot of idiots out there, but there’s actually some pretty intelligent people as well.

Some of those intelligent people realized… hey! Wait a second. This game set sales records and won awards. It shouldn’t still be bug-ridden. We should have things like player housing and more than 4 or 5 PvP maps. WvW shouldn’t be just a copy/paste of the same map three times. An in-game economy shouldn’t be ruled by the people who realized the precursor crafting glitch in the first few weeks, or got lucky in a 1-off event. I mean… what the heck. This game has financial resources. They should be able to fix things.

And they complained. Remarkably, ANET listened and attempted to fix the problems. Unfortunately that was when the community really began to grow into the drooling, cacophonious monster you see here today, because the less intelligent among us, having seen ANET’s attempt to appease those first angry voices, smelled blood in the water.

And ever since, our community has been a great big ball of crap, trying to fight by any means they can think of to get what they want from the devs.

The End.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Lishtenbird.2814:

We complain because we care.

Once we stop, the game’s either World’s First Perfect MMO, or dead. The latter being far more probable.

There’s a massive difference between complaining and providing feedback from a negatively affected point of view. Take the following for example:

“OMG, this megaserver and boss schedule means my guild cant do bosses anymore whenever we want to, we dont care about the consumable because it doesnt help us run bosses RITE NAO.”

VS.

“This update impacts the ability of the guild I’m in to run the raid level bosses for all of our members, especially considering there are over 3000 members among our ‘conglomerate’ guild. Additionally, the guild consumable is not a valid, or effective, solution due to our guild members being on all 24 NA servers across 6 different guilds, and Anet’s decided lack of fixing the guild chapter problem. Furthermore, it will take close to 2 months and 5k gold to get the influence necessary on a single server for each guild, and this does not touch on the necessity of merits in the consumable. Finally, the guild I am a member of runs this raid bosses a total of 42 times a week. The cost of the consumable severely limits running the world bosses as they only spawn the boss on a single instance.”

Which one do you think the devs prefer working from, and players prefer reading?

Check out the threads in my signature and you’ll get an answer.

Again, after seeing what many communities are like, I can still say that the amount of sensible and constructive posts on this game’s forum amazes me; the game is casual enough to attract not only people who’re hardcore children gamers but also intelligent adults who can provide constructive feedback. And you know, I really doubt that a 40-year-old middle-manager will go write a “I’m sick of those [kitten] forum complainers, go play the game!” post, but instead a list of issues he managed to see with his job-trained brain, as well as possible solutions, pros and cons; a child blindly protecting his precious world, on the other hand…