Guild Wars 2

In the aftermath of the September patch I just want to post this.

http://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY

Does anyone remember that? I’m sure Arenanet doesn’t. Just past the one minute twenty mark seems very fitting.

The more I read peoples responses to the patch the more you realize that Arenanet is drifting from it’s original statement, but not because its established base is shifting back to last generation gaming but the only reasons I can find for this happening is because the release in China.

Arenanet, if you released this patch as a means of combining the two game version (effectively stating to your established base that the Chinese game community is more important than your original mission statement or the already three million or so Guild Wars 2 product buyers) then have the balls to come out and say it for what it is. It may only affect low level areas (now) but you’re already drifting from the premise a lot of people brought your game for.

And how long until this stretches beyond the starter areas? How long before your actions to impress the Chinese market screw over further the market that has supported you for two years?

Above is just my opinion but you have to start thinking: what are they going to screw over change next?

In before “The manifesto was so long ago, things change.”

Which, of course, is just a way to distract from the real point, which is that at one time ArenaNet had a bold, clear vision for the game, which no longer seems to be the case.

Gibson.4036:

Which, of course, is just a way to distract from the real point, which is that at one time ArenaNet had a bold, clear vision for the game, which no longer seems to be the case.

They still have a clear vision for the game. They want to turn the game into China Wars 2

The Chinese launch didn’t do as well as the US launch, so that claim holds little water. The game as more popular in the US than it has shown to be in China so far.

The manifesto is a four year old video, and yeah, guess what, things do change in an MMO.

However, a lot of people have misintepreted parts of the manifesto and part of that misinterpretation is due to the four years that have passed.

At the time, Anet clarified and built on what was in the manifesto quite a bit. That’s why linking a four year video out of context is probably just a bit disingenuous.

Things on reddit have basically settled down to calm. There are about 20 people on this forum who absolutely can’t stand the new build and keep riling people up, but I don’t think the bulk of the playerbase is that stressed by it.

It’s called a storm in a teacup.

Vayne.8563:

The Chinese launch didn’t do as well as the US launch, so that claim holds little water. The game as more popular in the US than it has shown to be in China so far.

The manifesto is a four year old video, and yeah, guess what, things do change in an MMO.

However, a lot of people have misintepreted parts of the manifesto and part of that misinterpretation is due to the four years that have passed.

At the time, Anet clarified and built on what was in the manifesto quite a bit. That’s why linking a four year video out of context is probably just a bit disingenuous.

Things on reddit have basically settled down to calm. There are about 20 people on this forum who absolutely can’t stand the new build and keep riling people up, but I don’t think the bulk of the playerbase is that stressed by it.

It’s called a storm in a teacup.

Well as long as we avoid buying new character slots and just play with level 80 characters, we can work around this…

What else can we do about it?

Vayne.8563:

The Chinese launch didn’t do as well as the US launch, so that claim holds little water. The game as more popular in the US than it has shown to be in China so far.

Then, why in the kitten did they make this version more like China’s?

Vayne says your concerns don’t matter because he personally doesn’t agree with them. You can all relax now. Apparently everything is just dandy.

Vayne, you’re genuinely okay with them simply removing valuable, enjoyable content from the game. Without warning and explanation. You’re weak, mate. Besides, for the 20 people you mentioned, there is one who thinks otherwise. Guess who.

Colin Johanson

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

That one’s not even two years old, but seems to also be obsolete, as the current design philosophy seems to be one of directing play rather than opening up more freedom.

Bertrand.3057:

Let’s all play a new game! I call it, “spot the Vayne post”. It’s even easier than mashing 1 on your keyboard, so everyone can get involved!

I don’t know, my metrics show that “spot the Vayne post” still has a player retention issue, despite the inherent simplicity. Perhaps we could add a huge indicator arrow pointing to each Vayne post? And remove any complex “bundles” of concepts that might be contained in the posts; readers would probably be confused reading them. Each Vayne post should be a single sentence that can be read over and over by clicking the refresh button on your browser (which forum scripts will automatically rebind to the “1” key)

You can also press “F” to “entertain” the Vayne post, if reading it is still too complicated.

Cant find those Vayne posts..I think it’s also level gated..how many posts do I need to unlock it?

I kinda expect the VIP Status to be implemented or even part of the Wintersday content update lol

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

The Chinese launch didn’t do as well as the US launch, so that claim holds little water. The game as more popular in the US than it has shown to be in China so far.

Then, why in the kitten did they make this version more like China’s?

Because they really did run tests with new players and this kept new players playing longer and staying with the game longer. This is what Colin said directly. A year of testing on new players.

Ever notice how this game has no free demo? Hardly ever runs free weekend? Ever wonder why? Could it possibly be because free weekends weren’t working for them. A lot of work and little payback. So they spent a year testing out what would keep players playing longer. They came up with this.

The gating complaints are mostly complaints because people don’t know you can do most of what you could do before at level 2. The elite skill unlock, according to Anet says that it unlocks at roughly the same number of hours played.

This is a hot topic because people are keeping it alive and holding onto rage, not because it’s so badly done.

It is a bit inconvenient, but that’s it. A bit. And for that bit, if they can have a free demo weekend and get more new players into the game, I’m all for it.

Vayne.8563:

Because they really did run tests with new players and this kept new players playing longer and staying with the game longer. This is what Colin said directly. A year of testing on new players.

The thing I find fraudulent about that is we were all new players once. I don’t know anyone out of all the players I know who had difficulties with how the systems worked before this patch. After the patch is a different story, so saying its to help new players is a self-defeating standpoint.

I have my kids who are now 11 and 13 (who were 9 and 11 at the time of release) who could pick up the game fine before the patch who are now wonder what’s wrong with the “new players” this patch is aimed towards. From my point of view if a 9 and an 11 year old could pick up the game and play fine with little to no gaming experience but something like this has to come out… somethings wrong somewhere.

Furyan.9578:

Vayne.8563:

Because they really did run tests with new players and this kept new players playing longer and staying with the game longer. This is what Colin said directly. A year of testing on new players.

The thing I find fraudulent about that is we were all new players once. I don’t know anyone out of all the players I know who had difficulties with how the systems worked before this patch. After the patch is a different story, so saying its to help new players is a self-defeating standpoint.

I have my kids who are now 11 and 13 (who were 9 and 11 at the time of release) who could pick up the game fine before the patch who are now wonder what’s wrong with the “new players” this patch is aimed towards. From my point of view if a 9 and an 11 year old could pick up the game and play fine with little to no gaming experience but something like this has to come out… somethings wrong somewhere.

But metrics.

Furyan.9578:

Vayne.8563:

Because they really did run tests with new players and this kept new players playing longer and staying with the game longer. This is what Colin said directly. A year of testing on new players.

The thing I find fraudulent about that is we were all new players once. I don’t know anyone out of all the players I know who had difficulties with how the systems worked before this patch. After the patch is a different story, so saying its to help new players is a self-defeating standpoint.

I have my kids who are now 11 and 13 (who were 9 and 11 at the time of release) who could pick up the game fine before the patch who are now wonder what’s wrong with the “new players” this patch is aimed towards. From my point of view if a 9 and an 11 year old could pick up the game and play fine with little to no gaming experience but something like this has to come out… somethings wrong somewhere.

But I do know people who tried the game and just “couldn’t get into it”. You know, you keep saying too hard, too hard.

Colin said only some of the changes were made to ease the difficulty. Many of them were made to change the pacing as well. Give people more rewards more often.

Naturally if you liked the game already, you’d be annoyed that they’re changing it because you liked it. But do we know how many people logged in on free beta weekends but didn’t buy the game after? We don’t. Anet does.

They’re trying to make an experience that captures more new players that weren’t signing on. Apparently they’ve tested this and this keeps people playing more and longer.

If you really think this is bull, let me give you a question to ponder. If it was fine and they didn’t have those tests, what possible reason could they have to do the work to completely rewrite the beginning of the game? It’s not going to make them gem store sales. Its’ not going to help existing players asking for more content. There’s no reason for it I can think of, unless they actually did the tests they said.

Vayne.8563:

The gating complaints are mostly complaints because people don’t know you can do most of what you could do before at level 2.

Oh, you can still do most of what you could do before at level 2? You mean, like, Skill Challenge? Personal Story? That kind of stuff? Is that the stuff you can still do at level 2? Can you still unlock all of your weapon skills at level 2?

Sokia.3710:

Can you still unlock all of your weapon skills at level 2?

No, normally I would hit level 6 before I got all my weapon skills unlocked by killing things.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

The gating complaints are mostly complaints because people don’t know you can do most of what you could do before at level 2.

Oh, you can still do most of what you could do before at level 2? You mean, like, Skill Challenge? Personal Story? That kind of stuff? Is that the stuff you can still do at level 2? Can you still unlock all of your weapon skills at level 2?

Most of the stuff that people were complaining about. Now, there are a few things where the bar was moved like weapon swap and elite skill, but Anet tells us that the time it takes to get those things through actual play has remained the same. I don’t find, considering how fast the leveling goes, that I’m unlocking things any slower.

I know the people who only look at level numbers, instead of time spent getting to something, might think this is a terrible change. But you know, I like going through the first 15 levels quite fast and having most of what I had unlocked unlocked.

There are differences, but not as many as people make out, and adjustments have yet to be made.

Look everyone, a new system and it needs adjustment. Far different than saying this is the worst change ever and can’t work.

People who say that are going to lose because testing is more important right now than the opinion of people on the forums.

I always said I wanted to work at ANet as the “Manifesto Enforcer” …

Thia.4891:

I always said I wanted to work at ANet as the “Manifesto Enforcer” …

I’m having /gu comic flashbacks . . .

Everyone go look at the glassdoor.com entries for arenanet. A fair amount of people who worked there agree that the upper management is out of touch. Important people have left.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

I’m still kitten they added ascended gear.

aliksyian.7642:

Everyone go look at the glassdoor.com entries for arenanet. A fair amount of people who worked there agree that the upper management is out of touch. Important people have left.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

Glassdoor is never representative of a company. Typically you see more negative post there because they are upset about something(being fired, laid off etc.). Just about every single large company will have a large amount of negative reviews on that site.
If I remember correctly, anyone can make an account and post a review for a company, which further dismisses the legitimacy of said reviews.
Not saying that they are or could be real, but I would take everything read there with a grain of salt.
Important people leaving from a company is just a normal occurrence. Change can be a great thing or a bad thing.

aliksyian.7642:

Everyone go look at the glassdoor.com entries for arenanet. A fair amount of people who worked there agree that the upper management is out of touch. Important people have left.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

What percentage is a fair amount? Just curious.

Thia.4891:

I always said I wanted to work at ANet as the “Manifesto Enforcer” …

Well people keep bringing it up and each year it gets a year older, as does the point they’re trying to make. Less and less people remember the clarification about it Anet posted. Less and less people remember the extra explanations that were given out at the time that the manifesto was produced, giving it depth and helping people to understand it better.

It’s like a time capsule. Do you realize how long four years are in this industry?

Vayne.8563:

aliksyian.7642:

Everyone go look at the glassdoor.com entries for arenanet. A fair amount of people who worked there agree that the upper management is out of touch. Important people have left.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

What percentage is a fair amount? Just curious.

I’m not sure what algorithm glassdoor uses, but enough that it is the second of two cons it shows in the overview header. (The first is their “sink or swim” attitude for new hires.) I assume glassdoor shows the most relevant pros and cons in the top section because that is the sensible thing to do.

aliksyian.7642:

Vayne.8563:

aliksyian.7642:

Everyone go look at the glassdoor.com entries for arenanet. A fair amount of people who worked there agree that the upper management is out of touch. Important people have left.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

What percentage is a fair amount? Just curious.

I’m not sure what algorithm glassdoor uses, but enough that it is the second of two cons it shows in the overview header. (The first is their “sink or swim” attitude for new hires.) I assume glassdoor shows the most relevant pros and cons in the top section because that is the sensible thing to do.

You mean were 82% of the respondants approve of the CEO and 74% would recommend the job to a friend? That page?

Or is the CEO not part of managment somehow?

Here’s the link to the page I was look at.

http://www.glassdoor.com.au/Overview/Working-at-ArenaNet-EI_IE255820.11,19.htm

I’ll just leave this here…

“- Upper Management is poor: Some directors and design leads pay more attention to graphs and data then what people both in and outside of the studio are saying, and this often ends up with projects either being poorly prioritized, scoped beyond what a team can handle, or just driven in the wrong direction.”

Odyssey.2613:

I’ll just leave this here…

“- Upper Management is poor: Some directors and design leads pay more attention to graphs and data then what people both in and outside of the studio are saying, and this often ends up with projects either being poorly prioritized, scoped beyond what a team can handle, or just driven in the wrong direction.”

A single quote from a single review. But how many reviews are there that don’t say that, that’s my question.

I bet I could get someone to tell me my management was poor too when I ran a store, but most people didn’t think so and we had great working relationships.

Percentages are far more important than individual opinions.

aliksyian.7642:

You really are disingenuous. Or stupid. Or a troll! I’m going to use a plugin to block your posts.

Possibly the first, definitely not the second, the third is possible but unlikely.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

aliksyian.7642:

You really are disingenuous. Or stupid. Or a troll! I’m going to use a plugin to block your posts.

Possibly the first, definitely not the second, the third is possible but unlikely.

Well I got tampermonkey set up to block his posts, so tonight’s been productive.

Vayne.8563:

A single quote from a single review. But how many reviews are there that don’t say that, that’s my question.

Hardly any.

Almost every single con on every single post has a similar underlying message. Hint- It’s about management and decision making. You would know this if you took the time to read them.

Vayne.8563:

Percentages are far more important than individual opinions.

“- Upper Management is poor: Some directors and design leads pay more attention to graphs and data then what people both in and outside of the studio are saying, and this often ends up with projects either being poorly prioritized, scoped beyond what a team can handle, or just driven in the wrong direction.”

Haha
Oh, the irony…

Odyssey.2613:

“- Upper Management is poor: Some directors and design leads pay more attention to graphs and data then what people both in and outside of the studio are saying,

Oh the irony…

Lets see….
New games are releasing ….
Only 1% of the players does dungeons …….

a) Should they invest more monney to dungeons atm ?

b) Or they should fix-improve , things the majority play now (upper managment decition) .
And when the projects are finished , they can go back to ’’creating’’ their ideal game that original invisioned ?

@aliksyian.7642
Sstay away from the forums , if you cant ‘’stand the heat’’

The Manifesto is currently presented by Anet on the GW2 main website. Today, not jsut four years ago. This makes it a current point of reference, not some outdated and no longer applicable years old irrelevant data.

As long as Anet chooses to offer it up as current and official it is perfectly reasonable for players to reference it.

Ashen.2907:

The Manifesto is currently presented by Anet on the GW2 main website. Today, not jsut four years ago. This makes it a current point of reference, not some outdated and no longer applicable years old irrelevant data.

As long as Anet chooses to offer it up as current and official it is perfectly reasonable for players to reference it.

Sure, as long as players remember “we don’t make grindy games” came after things like the “Lucky” title track . . . the Gamer title track . . . Grandmaster Cartographer . . .

;)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

The Manifesto is currently presented by Anet on the GW2 main website. Today, not jsut four years ago. This makes it a current point of reference, not some outdated and no longer applicable years old irrelevant data.

As long as Anet chooses to offer it up as current and official it is perfectly reasonable for players to reference it.

Sure, as long as players remember “we don’t make grindy games” came after things like the “Lucky” title track . . . the Gamer title track . . . Grandmaster Cartographer . . .

;)

LoL.

I don’t claim that GW1 did not have the option to grind in no small part because what is grind for one person may not be for another. Personally I solo farmed the kitten out of Chaos Plains. Ended up with close to a hundred stacks of ectos. Had to buy character slots just to have mule characters to hold all of my, “wealth”…and had a blast doing it. I know others who couldn’t stand the “grind” and gave up on it almost immediately.

Then again, “we do not make,” is different than, “we have never made.”

@Killthehealersffs.8940

Nowhere did I state that they should focus on dungeons. Literally nowhere. Where did you get 1% player population? What region? EU? NA? Asia? All of them? Cite where you got 1%? I already know the answer.
Nice straw man argument. Stop pulling out facts from where the sun don’t shine.

This dumbed-down, gate locked, rewardless, poorly written, bug ladened downward trend Anet seems to be on is not improvement.

Here’s my problem with only listening to metrics….
With the latest LS we can go ahead and make ourselves the ascended Mawdrey piece.

Part of the requirement is that you get a piece from fractals. Metrics alone will show the player base attended fractals. What it wont show is any players that are angry about being forced to play one certain game mode to get a prize from another game mode. If you hate fractals and want the back piece ascended you just have to swallow the bitter pill.

My concern is that the trend of late has been to more and more directed play, especially if you want to earn any loot, which will inherently pressure people to take on tasks they hate, resulting in data that is completely meaningless.

I am hardly a diehard Anet supporter. However, pointing to the Manifesto as if it were a design document is incorrect. It is, at best, a marketing document and perhaps a statement of generalized intent. Pointing to the Manifesto and going, “Tsk, tsk!” is just another cynical forum tactic to try to shame the developer into doing what the poster wants. The actual nuts and bolts of game design are what people ought to be talking about, not the Manifesto.

It kind of hurts to watch that. Beautiful landscape that looks great from far away, a village that will stay rescued for all of 2 minutes.. I just couldnt. Guild wars is a great game but that video is really all hype. I guess it did its job in that case.

Furyan.9578:

In the aftermath of the September patch I just want to post this.

http://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY

Does anyone remember that? I’m sure Arenanet doesn’t. Just past the one minute twenty mark seems very fitting.

The more I read peoples responses to the patch the more you realize that Arenanet is drifting from it’s original statement, but not because its established base is shifting back to last generation gaming but the only reasons I can find for this happening is because the release in China.

Arenanet, if you released this patch as a means of combining the two game version (effectively stating to your established base that the Chinese game community is more important than your original mission statement or the already three million or so Guild Wars 2 product buyers) then have the balls to come out and say it for what it is. It may only affect low level areas (now) but you’re already drifting from the premise a lot of people brought your game for.

And how long until this stretches beyond the starter areas? How long before your actions to impress the Chinese market screw over further the market that has supported you for two years?

Above is just my opinion but you have to start thinking: what are they going to screw over change next?

@Odyssey.2613

I give some example to some ppl, that think linking makes them cool and dont understand the ‘’grow up world’’ …

They repetedly said that the dumbed-down, gate locked ARE meant to help new player (LIKE FOR EXAMPLE M IN THE CASE OF A NEW EXPANION COMES ) .
And they will introduce other things for the older players in the future …

Rewardless ? You mean dumping down the gold gain , so we dont have more gold infiltration and hurt even more new and old players in the gold-gem trade ?

Bug ladened ? They said some times in the PvP side that ‘’tranfairing things ’’ from the beta servers to the live , creates bugs .
Or it might creates ’’lag’’ bugs to the whole game (did you have anything about that lately?).

Poorly written ? I dont know :P
Edit: I hate the text part …. i want more voiced over conversations ….
It might cost too much …. and those money can go in other parts …

Ashen.2907:

Then again, “we do not make,” is different than, “we have never made.”

Or, “we are going to force you to”

You have the option to go after achievements. You now do not have the option to explore the personal story until you reach certain levels – because it will be “too hard for you”. Screw you, Anet. I decide what is difficult or not. NOT. YOU.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Ashen.2907:

Then again, “we do not make,” is different than, “we have never made.”

Or, “we are going to force you to”

You have the option to go after achievements. You now do not have the option to explore the personal story until you reach certain levels – because it will be “too hard for you”. Screw you, Anet. I decide what is difficult or not. NOT. YOU.

It was too hard for some people. Doc Howler, anyone? I saw a couple topics about him, and about other parts too in early story instances.

Metrics:

If you are out of ideas, go with math, because you know, math is always right.
It won’t work, but at least you have an excuse for whatever bullkitten you are doing.

Face it, GW2 attracts tons of people who actually don’t like the genre. My wife bought it and she managed to play to level 10 till she quit the first time. Half a year later, together with me, she made it to 50 on the second try before she got bored to death.
She just doesn’t like GW2 that much. Do I think she would have liked it any more with the changes from the two feature patches? Kitten no. She would have never returned with even more restrictions.

This will pretty much end like in SWG:

People who do not like the core of the game will still stop playing.
People who liked the game the way it was before will stop playing.
People who are fanbois will defend all changes until the game is dead.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Can you still unlock all of your weapon skills at level 2?

No, normally I would hit level 6 before I got all my weapon skills unlocked by killing things.

Lvl 6? man you must have pushed it. I was 8 most times and that was focusing on all weapons, underwater and land. So those extra minutes of not having every weapon unlocked between then and now must be incredibly stressful for some people.

Yargesh.4965:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Can you still unlock all of your weapon skills at level 2?

No, normally I would hit level 6 before I got all my weapon skills unlocked by killing things.

Lvl 6? man you must have pushed it. I was 8 most times and that was focusing on all weapons, underwater and land. So those extra minutes of not having every weapon unlocked between then and now must be incredibly stressful for some people.

I was a ranger, I really wanted options so I worked on it pretty hard.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It was too hard for some people. Doc Howler, anyone? I saw a couple topics about him, and about other parts too in early story instances.

I don’t give a kitten how hard it was for other people! They didn’t have to flippen do the quest until they were ready then – just like I could! That is a zero basis to justify what Anet chose to do.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It was too hard for some people. Doc Howler, anyone? I saw a couple topics about him, and about other parts too in early story instances.

I don’t give a kitten how hard it was for other people! They didn’t have to flippen do the quest until they were ready then – just like I could! That is a zero basis to justify what Anet chose to do.

I hear this all day at work: “I don’t care about other people, I just want what I want”.

It gets kind of like white noise . . .