Guild Wars 2

P One Gore.2304:

Kuzzi.2198:

As if to spite those who pay attention to taking the most efficient course of action, Anet made this change without giving us a heads up.

P One Gore.2304:

If this 95% karma boost was a problem enough to warrant such a ‘nerf’, why would they announce it happening to give people a heads up and do it en masse?

ThePedroKid.2580:

Many months ago it came up on the forums whether or not using multiple boosters to get Karma to 95% on consumables was an exploit or working as intended. At that time, Anet stated that it was not exploitative and that it was intended and they had no problem with it. This was a major reason that led people like myself to hoard our karma and boost up to use it.

Kuzzi.2198:

P One Gore.2304:

Kuzzi.2198:

As if to spite those who pay attention to taking the most efficient course of action, Anet made this change without giving us a heads up.

P One Gore.2304:

The entitlement is that you demanded notice of this ‘nerf’.

If this 95% karma boost was a problem enough to warrant such a ‘nerf’, why would they announce it happening to give people a heads up and do it en masse?

ThePedroKid.2580:

Many months ago it came up on the forums whether or not using multiple boosters to get Karma to 95% on consumables was an exploit or working as intended. At that time, Anet stated that it was not exploitative and that it was intended and they had no problem with it. This was a major reason that led people like myself to hoard our karma and boost up to use it.

And that changed when they introduced the Wallet 2 weeks ago. Now you don’t need to worry about which character can get the karma, all of them will have it.

Before it was fine, you had to choose which character needed the karma the most. Now, you don’t need to choose, you can hoard all the karma you want for your wallet, and not have to worry about consequences like not having enough for other characters.

P One Gore.2304:

Kuzzi.2198:

P One Gore.2304:

Kuzzi.2198:

As if to spite those who pay attention to taking the most efficient course of action, Anet made this change without giving us a heads up.

P One Gore.2304:

The entitlement is that you demanded notice of this ‘nerf’.

If this 95% karma boost was a problem enough to warrant such a ‘nerf’, why would they announce it happening to give people a heads up and do it en masse?

ThePedroKid.2580:

Many months ago it came up on the forums whether or not using multiple boosters to get Karma to 95% on consumables was an exploit or working as intended. At that time, Anet stated that it was not exploitative and that it was intended and they had no problem with it. This was a major reason that led people like myself to hoard our karma and boost up to use it.

And that changed when they introduced the Wallet 2 weeks ago. Now you don’t need to worry about which character can get the karma, all of them will have it.

Before it was fine, you had to choose which character needed the karma the most. Now, you don’t need to choose, you can hoard all the karma you want for your wallet, and not have to worry about consequences like not having enough for other characters.

You could use the karma jugs on any characters though. So hoarding in you bank was still more effective.

Navzar.2938:

P One Gore.2304:

Kuzzi.2198:

P One Gore.2304:

Kuzzi.2198:

As if to spite those who pay attention to taking the most efficient course of action, Anet made this change without giving us a heads up.

P One Gore.2304:

The entitlement is that you demanded notice of this ‘nerf’.

If this 95% karma boost was a problem enough to warrant such a ‘nerf’, why would they announce it happening to give people a heads up and do it en masse?

ThePedroKid.2580:

Many months ago it came up on the forums whether or not using multiple boosters to get Karma to 95% on consumables was an exploit or working as intended. At that time, Anet stated that it was not exploitative and that it was intended and they had no problem with it. This was a major reason that led people like myself to hoard our karma and boost up to use it.

And that changed when they introduced the Wallet 2 weeks ago. Now you don’t need to worry about which character can get the karma, all of them will have it.

Before it was fine, you had to choose which character needed the karma the most. Now, you don’t need to choose, you can hoard all the karma you want for your wallet, and not have to worry about consequences like not having enough for other characters.

You could use the karma jugs on any characters though. So hoarding in you bank was still more effective.

And it would go to one big pot. Not just that character’s personal karma like it was before.

A heads up is always appreciated on these things. That said, doesn’t personally affect me since I always threw on whatever booster I had on me and just used that rather than trying to squeeze every drop of karma out of a consumable. I used up my hoard as soon as karma became account bound.

I’m pleased with the change overall as now I don’t feel like I need to wait until I have a boost on to use the kitten things and let them clog up my inventory in the meantime. Now we just need to get rid of karma consumables altogether and just have karma rewards dumped straight into your wallet for maximum convenience, minimum clutter and exactly the same results.

P One Gore.2304:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

P One Gore.2304:

So you’re missing out on 2k karma on jugs, and even less on others.

When you have stacks of different types of liquid Karma, it adds up really fast.

If this 95% karma boost was a problem enough to warrant such a ‘nerf’, why would they announce it happening to give people a heads up and do it en masse?

I demanded something?

I think the division of opinions is this. If you used all your consumables, you’re okay with the change.

If you didn’t, you’re not.

However, it does not change the fact its fundamentally unfair to let one group, by sheer luck of timing, to gain the benefit and another not to. If they retroactively changed all (which would be impossible) previous karma gains to the new gain, sure, it’d be fair.

If farming of the boxes was the issue*, giving a heads up would not have been that bad. Because the amount of karma consumables laying around is finite and their impact would be limited. And then going forward make this change.

Did the jewel box farming effect the economy that much? Because the major shift in prices occurred with the current content and its massive new gold farms? Have these been addressed? From the patch notes, I’d say not. Jewel box/karma was a drop in the bucket. A simple week heads up would not have introduced that much more karma into the system then already existed, and would have been fair.

Anet, however, is not into fair. Based on how they handle player “wealth”, they love giving one group an advantage randomly over others.

Banking anything is a gamble. You’re betting that it’ll be worth more in the future. You hope that the market or those in charge of the market allow for you to make a profit. Does it always happen? Nope… Do you rage quit your real-life bank every time the interest rate drops?

Did any karma-items go up in price? Not that I’m aware of. In that regard (as others have said) most people see a profit in what ANet did.

You gambled, you ‘lost’. Deal with it and quit QQing.

Full disclosure: I’ve been saving up my karma jugs since the Queen’s Jubilee started and have also missed out on a bunch of karma from boosts.

Well, that’s another big bank space taker taken care of.

Now if only they did something about the by products of crafting.

After reading all the comments about karma farming for orrian boxes, I think I’m actually starting to understand why they did this. Who knew this was such a valuable commodity? Some guy even said he funded the better part of a legendary with max boostterms and buying boxes? Jeez.

Tagus Eleuthera.7305:

After reading all the comments about karma farming for orrian boxes, I think I’m actually starting to understand why they did this. Who knew this was such a valuable commodity? Some guy even said he funded the better part of a legendary with max boostterms and buying boxes? Jeez.

What’s wrong about making gold?

Joiry.2504:

I think the division of opinions is this. If you used all your consumables, you’re okay with the change.

If you didn’t, you’re not.

However, it does not change the fact its fundamentally unfair to let one group, by sheer luck of timing, to gain the benefit and another not to. If they retroactively changed all (which would be impossible) previous karma gains to the new gain, sure, it’d be fair.

If farming of the boxes was the issue*, giving a heads up would not have been that bad. Because the amount of karma consumables laying around is finite and their impact would be limited. And then going forward make this change.

Did the jewel box farming effect the economy that much? Because the major shift in prices occurred with the current content and its massive new gold farms? Have these been addressed? From the patch notes, I’d say not. Jewel box/karma was a drop in the bucket. A simple week heads up would not have introduced that much more karma into the system then already existed, and would have been fair.

Anet, however, is not into fair. Based on how they handle player “wealth”, they love giving one group an advantage randomly over others.

Incorrect.

I was saving all of my karma consumables as well since the wallet was introduced (not anymore now that this ‘nerf’ was introduced).

I’m still okay with this change.

Don’t assume everyone is on the sides you described.

The Meat Wagon.7194:

Tagus Eleuthera.7305:

After reading all the comments about karma farming for orrian boxes, I think I’m actually starting to understand why they did this. Who knew this was such a valuable commodity? Some guy even said he funded the better part of a legendary with max boostterms and buying boxes? Jeez.

What’s wrong about making gold?

Nothing’s wrong with making gold unless you’re making a gross amount of it in a short time (hence all these nerfs as of late when it came to gold farming).

Smooth Penguin.5294:

P One Gore.2304:

Treeline.3865:

P One Gore.2304:

Nerf?

The amount of karma granted from consumable karma items has been increased. Karma boosts no longer affect the amount of karma gained from consumable items.

Seems like they made it so that you don’t need to use a karma booster when using the consumables anymore. I’d call it a buff if anything.

It’s a nerf, the boost is only 50%.

Jug of Liquid Karma used to only give 4500 karma. 6750 karma when used with the karma booster (50%).

Now, it’s unaffected by karma boosters and now gives 6750 karma.

I fail to see where there’s a nerf in all of this.

Because smart people would bump their boosts to +95% instead of just +50%. So basically, we all lost out on around 45% extra Karma.

Smart people also didn’t sit on their stath and used them from time to time

You fail to address any valid point I had. It is unfair, by timing rewards one group over another. Solves a minor issue at best (compared with other economic issues) in its unfairness. Anet’s standard sledgehammer for a minor issue appraoch, regardless of its consequences.

Its just like the soulbound gauntelt tickets. A minor issue, easily solved maybe by limiting the 5 free tickets to level 10 or higher characters. But instead, they make it extremely hard to use alts in an arena that Anet specifcally says you may need to use alts in different parts of the fight. But no, sledgehammer approach.

Today was my guild’s karma day, thank you for wasting my guild mates investments in maxing their karma as well as our guild’s limited influence Anet.

Joiry.2504:

You fail to address any valid point I had. It is unfair, by timing rewards one group over another. Solves a minor issue at best (compared with other economic issues) in its unfairness. Anet’s standard sledgehammer for a minor issue appraoch, regardless of its consequences.

Its just like the soulbound gauntelt tickets. A minor issue, easily solved maybe by limiting the 5 free tickets to level 10 or higher characters. But instead, they make it extremely hard to use alts in an arena that Anet specifcally says you may need to use alts in different parts of the fight. But no, sledgehammer approach.

You consider your points valid. I don’t. You’ve yet to put up any valid point that can’t be refuted.

And to end this argument, developers put in unscheduled hotfixes all the time for problems in the game.

While Clockwork Chaos is a patch and not a hotfix, the issue with the Wallet and hoarding your karma consumables warranted a hotfix within the first week. Surprised it took Anet longer than that. But believe me, for the game’s economy (with everyone saying how they funded their Legendaries with so-and-so methods), it’s warranted.

Its funny, since if you just hoard the boxes, you would never open them anyways

P One Gore.2304:

And you consider your points valid. I don’t. You’ve yet to put up any valid point that can’t be refuted.

Proof by assertion! Classic. Yes, my points are not valid because you consider them not to be.

There was nothing to show karma boosts had a major inflation impact to the economy. The biggest changes happened with all the new farms with the latest monthly content.

Having said that, I’m not opposed to limiting the karma boosts. However, a warning was completely necessary. Anet has created 2 sets of players, those who benefited, and those who did not. The amount of potential karma added with a heads up would not have effected the economy noticeably compared to the larger impact of the champion and other new farms.

Its just that, a matter of fairness. That everyone gets to benefit from a minor source of extra wealth. Hotfixes are like weather, they aren’t just some random “oh well, that’s life thing” – you can’t just explain them away. They are decisions by Anet.

Plus, Anet had not given any indication this might be a problem. They have talked about the economy having issues due to the new farms, but, oh, wait, they have’t done anything about that yet.

I don’t see what was wrong with advanced notice or, you know, any indication in the recent update with the wallet that boosts to karma were going to be “reevaluated” or whatever jargon they wanted to throw in to make people sit up and take notice.

It was plainly important to store karma before the wallet because you could not make a choice of what you needed ahead of time. That said, there was every opportunity by Anet to introduce the wallet and talk about karma boosting — they chose not to, and now have pulled the rug out from underneath people who hadn’t committed to using their rewards.

That is unacceptable.

If it was about Orrian Boxes, then rework that item. If that is the case, every single player in the game that had unspent karma consumables and was intending to make fair use of their other earned rewards (boosters, banner, food, infusion, etc.) has been unjustifiably affected by this “fix”.

Just to put things in perspective, look how long it took to get some change on dungeon rewards while people pillaged CoF path 1 with speed clears. Yet karma, no where near as bad as gold farming, gets slammed without warning.

This lack of communicating with your players on what is and is not ok, and what you give and take away from us has not made sense to me. I did miss out on some karma, but I hardly use it; my rewards are not a big deal.

This is entirely a matter of principle: we earned every single one of those consumables and you provided a number of ways to improve them. Taking that away without warning was surprising and flat-out wrong.

Joiry.2504:

P One Gore.2304:

And you consider your points valid. I don’t. You’ve yet to put up any valid point that can’t be refuted.

Proof by assertion! Classic. Yes, my points are not valid because you consider them not to be.

There was nothing to show karma boosts had a major inflation impact to the economy. The biggest changes happened with all the new farms with the latest monthly content.

Having said that, I’m not opposed to limiting the karma boosts. However, a warning was completely necessary. Anet has created 2 sets of players, those who benefited, and those who did not. The amount of potential karma added with a heads up would not have effected the economy noticeably compared to the larger impact of the champion and other new farms.

Its just that, a matter of fairness. That everyone gets to benefit from a minor source of extra wealth. Hotfixes are like weather, they aren’t just some random “oh well, that’s life thing” – you can’t just explain them away. They are decisions by Anet.

Plus, Anet had not given any indication this might be a problem. They have talked about the economy having issues due to the new farms, but, oh, wait, they have’t done anything about that yet.

Proof by assertion! Classic. Yes, my points are not valid because you consider them not to be.

It’s called opinion. But the fact that your points can be refuted shows that your opinions aren’t fact.

There was nothing to show karma boosts had a major inflation impact to the economy.

Except for people in map chat saying how they funded their legendaries using this method (along with others that also got nerfed).

However, a warning was completely necessary.

So that you can get it all done and over with? Sorry, but Anet seemed to think otherwise that you didn’t need to know, and continue to break a gaming economy by overvaluing items and undervaluing others with the Orrian Jewelbox method.

The amount of potential karma added with a heads up would not have effected the economy noticeably compared to the larger impact of the champion and other new farms.

According to you. Apparently Anet thought differently from your assumptions.

Plus, Anet had not given any indication this might be a problem. They have talked about the economy having issues due to the new farms, but, oh, wait, they have’t done anything about that yet.

What, you mean like the Gauntlet farming, which has been addressed already (and not really fixed)? Subject 7 was nerfed. Deadeye Dunwell was nerfed. People will find a way around.

And to what I’m hearing, the watchwork bags that was awarded for the gauntlet no longer drops money. I won’t know for myself until I can actually get into the pavilion.

Anything else you’d like to try and argue?

Personally, I’m glad to have a little more space in my bank now.
Sure, now I got less than I could have had, but anyway, there’s nothing I need to buy with karma.

does that mean “all boost you get from kama” dont’ work any more?

Or does that mean only for food and booster. But guild flag, karma infusion, etc still work?

An apology was posted in another thread regarding this. Colin says don’t use your karma consumables just yet if you can help it, they’re going to explore efforts to fix this.

Here is the Dev comment:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Karma-hoarding-wanted-warning-about-change/first#post2664304

mtpelion.4562:

Here is the Dev comment:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Karma-hoarding-wanted-warning-about-change/first#post2664304

I love Anet!

=[ sad

[img]https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/97070/karmasad.jpg[/img]

The only thing I find somewhat confusing about this move is that, imo, it renders the karma containers pointless to begin with. There were two reasons to keep karma containers that I can think of:

1) Wait till you have enough, then use with a booster, and
2) Use the account bound containers on another character.

Both points are rendered irrelevant nowadays – boosters no longer affect them, and karma is account wide so all alts can access it from the same pool anyway.

My point is, this renders the jugs pointless. When they award a karma container they may as well just give you the appropriate amount of “raw” karma instead. To be clear, I don’t find this that big of a deal – this game shovels boatloads of karma your way no matter what you do anyway; I got a legendary and enough to make another two, and if I went and made another two, by the time I did that I’d likely have enough karma to make another 5.. I’m just confused that they didn’t just stop awarding karma containers in the first place and just started giving people “raw” karma instead – pretty much the same thing, at this point.

ColinJohanson.2394:

This is totally our fault, we dropped the ball on this plain and simple. We planned to have this messaged ahead of time to be fair to everyone, communication broke down between those who knew it was supposed to be messaged, and those who were supposed to message it and it simply didn’t happen.

As game director this is ultimately my fault first and foremost, and I’m sorry for those who potentially lost some karma as a result. It is our policy to message these kind of changes ahead of time with lots of warning, I’ll do everything possible to make sure this doesn’t happen in the future.

I’d recommend not using your karma consumables yet, give us a day or two to try and see what options we have available to help mitigate the issue.

You gotta love Colin. I should send him more cookies.

Kuzzi.2198:

A lot of people do not understand the real source of the frustration here. I’ll try to explain:

A couple months back, Anet introduced achievement rewards. These rewards include account boosts among which there is a Karma Boost. Anyone with half a brain who was aware of this knew that while they did not need the karma immediately it was better to stockpile the items until they earn more achievements and increase their boost percentage.

As if to spite those who pay attention to taking the most efficient course of action, Anet made this change without giving us a heads up.

To show an example of how much of an effect this change had, I was close to the next karma boost level, which would have put my maximum karma boost at +107%, instead of the static +50% they changed it to. I have almost an entire bank tab of stock piled karma boosters, which amounts to about 5mil base karma without boosts.

This means, if I had consumed those 2 hours ago (or if Anet gave us notice of this change), I would have had 10.35m karma, but instead I get 7.5m karma. 2.85m karma loss for no reason. To put things in perspective, 2.85m karma is about 626 orrian jewelry boxes that I had 2 hours ago but now don’t anymore.

I thought you were quitting?

Evolut.2398:

I thought you were quitting?

I’m never quitting. GW2 for life!

Kuzzi.2198:

mtpelion.4562:

Here is the Dev comment:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Karma-hoarding-wanted-warning-about-change/first#post2664304

I love Anet!

First you guys bash Anet for not giving you advance warning.

Anet caves in (and I don’t know why they did) and now you suddenly switch your tune to ‘we love anet’.

P One Gore.2304:

First you guys bash Anet for not giving you advance warning.

Anet caves in (and I don’t know why they did) and now you suddenly switch your tune to ‘we love anet’.

What’s wrong with that? I love my girlfriend even though we sometimes argue. It’s all part of a healthy relationship.

If anything, my temporary disappointment which has now been overcome by joy (because I honestly did not expect them to address this like they did) only worked to enforce my appreciation of Anet.

Hey everybody, we already have a thread about this topic. Please use this thread to discuss this topic. Thank you for your understanding.