Karma should be more dominant as a currency.

Karma should be more dominant as a currency.

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Posted by: Broseph.9283

Broseph.9283

Karma should have a dominant role in the game’s reward structure.

I propose that continued development in Gw2 place a large emphasis on karma based rewards. I feel significant development of karma based rewards will result in a large amounts of currently stale content to become relevant again. These points are based off of my personal opinion that this game’s core experience is actually it’s leveling experience. I wanted to brainstorm some ideas which would bring the “magic” of the leveling experience back to max level players.

Karma as we currently experience it:
1. Karma is account bound and is mostly disconnected from the gold economy.
2. Karma is a reward for most activities and is already integrated deeply into the game.
3. Karma has limited uses for a max level player, and the emphasis shifts over to gold for progression.
4. Karma is a currency reward which allows players to choose how they wish to be further rewarded.

Considering these points, here are a few of my thoughts regarding karma as it relates to Gw2’s reward structure.

1. Karma currently does not have enough uses at max level. The leveling experience places much emphasis on the acquisition of karma, but the need for karma as it relates to progression falls off at max level (outside of legendary weapons). I think the gear changes on the temple vendors were a step in the right direction and I would like to see more of that sort of thing but with the addition of location relevant cosmetic items (more on this later).

2. There should be more of a connection between dynamic events/hearts/map completion and equipment/skins/cosmetic rewards. The game already provides karma as a reward in all the right places; there should be more of a direct connection between completing all of these activities (even events in low level zones) to interesting item acquisition. This game’s leveling experience makes up much of the core game play and should provide a sense of progression at 80. Speaking personally, I would say that I desire to spend more time in all of the game’s leveling zones but I am missing much of the fun as it relates to a relevant reward. I enjoy Orr/Frostgorge/Dry-Top but I would like the other zones to be more relevant.

3. Region specific armor and weapons should be implemented in most of the zones. First of all, we need more armor skins in the game that don’t come from the gem store. Having region specific weapon and armor skins on karma vendors in each zone would be awesome. You could have a Shiverpeaks armor and weapon set, as well as a Krytan, ect. These items would be found only on vendors in their respective areas.

4. Dry top currency (geodes) could serve as a model for other zones. I propose introducing other unique region specific currencies in addition to karma to ensure that people who want a Shiverpeak’s weapon/armor set actually spend time in Shiverpeak zones. We already have a currency for the Maguma jungle zones.

5. Vendors for special karma rewards (weapon and armor skins) should be accessed only under certain conditions. An example of this might be placing certain vendors with location specific cosmetic items behind certain barriers like meta events or even in WVW at the center of the castle in Eternal Battlegrounds. Again, I would also recommend the use of a region or activity specific currency.

6. People currently only farm dynamic events which involve champions or several packs of monsters. The main reward in these situations is never actually coming from the events themselves but from monster loot. I would like to shift the general incentive to do an event to the event itself.

7. Most things should be purchasable with karma since most activities reward it. What if things like Cultural Armor Skins, Crafting tools and reagents, Transmutation charges, ect. could be purchased with varying amounts of karma?

8. Gold should be reserved as a secondary currency for use with trading post. I am not an economist, and so I am not sure how to keep gold’s value tied to something but I do believe that it should be disconnected from karma, and that karma should remain disconnected from the gem store. We need more items only obtainable by playing the game itself.

That’s it for now. Much of these suggestions come from what I would personally like to see while I wait for expansion content. What do you guys think?

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Sorry, I’ll link my post here rather than repeat it all.

But, to put it bluntly, this is an idea which is going to crash headlong into the mountains of Karma older players amassed back when it was the easiest way to gear yourself with good Exotic armor. (And, notably, it still is . . . )

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: Broseph.9283

Broseph.9283

I responded to you actually in that thread, but in summary, I really don’t think there is a problem with having certain armors or weapons cost several hundred thousand karma.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

I’m moving the discussion here, as it’s less pertinent over there.

I responded to you actually in that thread, but in summary, I really don’t think there is a problem with having certain armors or weapons cost several hundred thousand karma.

I, personally, don’t object. But recall I have been around for a long time and probably wouldn’t be as affected as it by other, newer players who might see “Primordius’ Left Toe” for 500,000 Karma and notice its stats are either Exotic or Ascended in quality. Why have to grind so much Karma for it? Does ANet want us to farm it up, and if so why are they against farming? And if it did use Ascended stats, woe be unto those who crafted their weapons and now can sink all that Karma they didn’t use into a weapon instead. Oh the flame-broiled scent of developers would be so strong I’d have to bottle it as Liquid Smoke.

I do think Karma should be more useful, and I would cheerfully discuss methods of making it work better to acquire new and wonderful things. But I think acting on “there’s tons of Karma potentially out there” runs a very high risk down the line for new players or players who don’t have such a deep well to draw from as those who opened on Early Release.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

And to hit the other points now that I finished my thought on the “hundreds of thousands of Karma” bit:

What if we could purchase transmutation shards with karma?

That gets in the way of the Gem Store being meant to somewhat be a tax for people who really want to be free with their armor changing and not keep the items themselves.

Of course, this is also probably one of the things devs could take to higher-ups: is the Transmutation Charge purchase through the Gem Store valuable enough to continue offering there as opposed to making it available through Karma? My gut tells me it’s probably not as valued as . . . say . . . Keys.

(By the way, I’d love a lockpick item we could get in game which would allow me to crack open a Black Lion Chest for one item at random instead of the Key for three only available certain limited ways. Just a soft aside.)

Im just brainstorming here; Karma was implied to be a useful currency (everything in the game rewards it) and the reason you have so much karma is because it has no relevant purchasing power. I think significant effort should be put into rediscovering its use. If you had to make choices on which awesome items to buy with your karma, you would be more careful in how you spend it and would likely not be stockpiling it.

I would still stockpile it, but that’s because it’s how I live – if I know spending it is going to put me in a position where I might not have enough later when something I really want comes around? I hoard it.

Also, you have a point about the different currencies getting out of hand…perhaps we could borrow from the dungeon currency system? For example, if a person wanted a certain item, they could farm the respective zone or dungeon (or both!).

I did float the idea of each region getting its own item, because it would institute a limit on how many items would really be floating around. I’d like it to be in the “Wallet” but then an overhaul which would have the Wallet subdivided for easy reference. One section for basic currencies (Gold, Karma, Laurels, Gems, Guild Commendations), one for Dungeon Tokens and Badges, one for Fractal Relics (Pristine and otherwise) along with these ‘regional currencies’.

And then you can say “hey, here’s some new events which end with a vendor coming available who will have special Rare-quality items on sale for these regional tokens and some Karma . . . or you can use Laurels and Karma for Exotic level items”.

Or some NPCs near the dungeons who would take these regional currencies in exchange for Dungeon Tokens or the other way around at an exchange loss. Like a norn standing near the Honor of the Waves: “Oh, I have heard tales of your deeds! I’d be honored to offer you a special deal…”

(Or an asura standing near the Infinity Coil: “Hey I heard you really stuck it to the Inquest. About time someone put them in their place. Say, you wouldn’t happen to have any of their experimental data laying around would you?”)

I mean, I could go on for hours discussing permutations of how to do this but it hinges on Karma not being the sole method of acquisition . . . and there being something desirable to acquire.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

Karma should be more dominant as a currency.

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Posted by: Broseph.9283

Broseph.9283

You have valid points; I especially like your idea about the wallet being divided to allow an additional regional currency category. I honestly just think that the pros simply outweigh the cons here for using karma more heavily. I would also emphasize that much of the rewards I would argue for would be cosmetic (skin based) and disconnected from the ideas of stats. I probably wouldn’t recommend this be used for ascended items.

For example, a very expensive piece of piece of Obsidian armor for example could cost 500,000 karma per piece, and would have the text “Double click this item to add this skin to your account” or something along those lines and be clearly cosmetic.

I am somewhat in agreement with one of your earlier posts about having too many currencies…I am very surprised that they have not opted to make karma a more mainstream currency on the reward end and instead have used gold or additional currencies. The only reason I suggested possibly having additional currencies is that I wanted to see if there was a way to keep rewards region/location specific.

If they don’t wish to create new armor/weapons, it would be wonderful to see the kinds of weapons and armor that would be on the gem store available in this way.

(edited by Broseph.9283)

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

I am somewhat in agreement with one of your earlier posts about having too many currencies…I am very surprised that they have not opted to make karma a more mainstream currency on the reward end and instead have used gold or additional currencies.

It’s because Karma was/is farmed so easily. Especially once the Daily Achievement update back for the first Halloween added 5000 Karma jugs to the rewards. That was 35,000 Karma per week. It was done because people couldn’t get it without massive farming at that point, and there was a way to get the best current armor sets (Temple Armor) for Karma. A lot of Karma.

Now it’s just easy to farm the heck out of Karma, much easier than Gold. That’s probably one of the reasons it wasn’t taking off into useful directions and we got Laurels . . . instead of a “5k Karma = 1 Laurel” step back where you would use Karma to acquire things Laurels were used for. (Also, Laurels were a time gate to make sure people didn’t just grab Ascended accessories right away – remember that Ascended was meant to be a “long term goal” instead of a “meh, I’ll just buy tons of it now” thing.)

That’s always going to be an issue when talking about what Karma could be potentially used for. It’s just way too easy to acquire a ton of it, currently.

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Posted by: Broseph.9283

Broseph.9283

A karma reset then! Haha. They could let us know to spend our current karma before they do, and then reset it at some feature patch.

One of the reasons I am so focused on karma specifically is that the systems are already in place and development time would probably be smaller compared to adding other reward systems in the game. I could be wrong about this, but I was approaching this from the angle of something that could be done in a reasonably short period of time.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

A karma reset then! Haha. They could let us know to spend our current karma before they do, and then reset it at some feature patch.

Well, they did do that for Glory once upon a time. Not sure how that turned out, as I was only dimly aware it happened.

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Posted by: Serophous.9085

Serophous.9085

Basically, I only see karma having 3 uses atm.

1. Gearing up alts with temple gear. (useful till out of alts)
2. Buying the random boxes for lodestones, since anything else in it is pointless. (RNG)
3. Buying level 80 greens and putting in the forge. (RNG)

You can spend on the ascended crafting stuff, but you get that easily from dry top now.

If anything, just convert a large amount of it to another form of currency like laurals, then we can at least buy dyes or something for it.

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Posted by: Broseph.9283

Broseph.9283

Basically, I only see karma having 3 uses atm.

1. Gearing up alts with temple gear. (useful till out of alts)
2. Buying the random boxes for lodestones, since anything else in it is pointless. (RNG)
3. Buying level 80 greens and putting in the forge. (RNG)

You can spend on the ascended crafting stuff, but you get that easily from dry top now.

If anything, just convert a large amount of it to another form of currency like laurals, then we can at least buy dyes or something for it.

See, this is precisely what depresses me about karma currently. The problem is, this is our reward for going out in the world and doing these events…

We are lacking new PVE armor skins since release; I feel this would be a good way to implement them.

(edited by Broseph.9283)

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Posted by: Haishao.6851

Haishao.6851

Sorry, I’ll link my post here rather than repeat it all.

But, to put it bluntly, this is an idea which is going to crash headlong into the mountains of Karma older players amassed back when it was the easiest way to gear yourself with good Exotic armor. (And, notably, it still is . . . )

Karma prices are static. Back in august 2012 the temple armors were 42,000karma a piece just like they are today. They are just as hard to get for a new comer as they were to us when we started.

Actually they were even harder to get because karma was bound to our character and couldn’t be traded through our account. If I wanted a karma armor for a specific character, I had to for farm the karma with that character.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Karma prices are static. Back in august 2012 the temple armors were 42,000 Karma a piece just like they are today. They are just as hard to get for a new comer as they were to us when we started.

Heh. No.

See, when I started? There were no Jugs of Karma when I completed my Daily Achievements. Ten months later, I was swimming in Jugs of Karma and buying a full set didn’t even dent the incoming flow for long.

Today, they stepped it back from Jugs to something else, I forget what but it’s not to the same amount as it was. It’s still easier than the time when Daily Achievements awarded nothing other than AP and some neat lil items.

Actually they were even harder to get because karma was bound to our character and couldn’t be traded through our account. If I wanted a karma armor for a specific character, I had to for farm the karma with that character.

Jugs were not bound, and indeed the preferred way to farm up a ton of Karma for just such a reason. Just get thee hence to doing your Dailies for two hours a day and you too could arm your alts with Temple Armor.

All this and more is why there are people swimming in that purple currency and going “what the heck do I do with it”.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

Karma should be more dominant as a currency.

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Posted by: Broseph.9283

Broseph.9283

Karma prices are static. Back in august 2012 the temple armors were 42,000 Karma a piece just like they are today. They are just as hard to get for a new comer as they were to us when we started.

Heh. No.

See, when I started? There were no Jugs of Karma when I completed my Daily Achievements. Ten months later, I was swimming in Jugs of Karma and buying a full set didn’t even dent the incoming flow for long.

Today, they stepped it back from Jugs to something else, I forget what but it’s not to the same amount as it was. It’s still easier than the time when Daily Achievements awarded nothing other than AP and some neat lil items.

Actually they were even harder to get because karma was bound to our character and couldn’t be traded through our account. If I wanted a karma armor for a specific character, I had to for farm the karma with that character.

Jugs were not bound, and indeed the preferred way to farm up a ton of Karma for just such a reason. Just get thee hence to doing your Dailies for two hours a day and you too could arm your alts with Temple Armor.

All this and more is why there are people swimming in that purple currency and going “what the heck do I do with it”.

I think it would be safe to say that these sources of Karma might need to be nerfed if new karma reward systems were put in place.