Guild Wars 2

Devata.6589:

-snip- (kitten word limits)

You and I are on the same page in many regards actually. Doing a hard task and earning a special item for doing it. Like earning the Liadri mini for killing her, for example. I get that people enjoy playing that way, I’m one of them.

However, I also respect that Anet is a business and the cash shop is how they opted to structure their income model. They have to put something in there that entices people to spend money. Obviously they can’t just put 1 or 2 things in there, that’s not going to generate the income they are looking for. They have to offer a wide spread. Considering they stated before launch that they wouldn’t put any ‘pay to win’ (in its traditional sense) type things in the store, that sort of limits what they can put in there.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Devata.6589:

-snip- (kitten word limits)

You and I are on the same page in many regards actually. Doing a hard task and earning a special item for doing it. Like earning the Liadri mini for killing her, for example. I get that people enjoy playing that way, I’m one of them.

However, I also respect that Anet is a business and the cash shop is how they opted to structure their income model. They have to put something in there that entices people to spend money. Obviously they can’t just put 1 or 2 things in there, that’s not going to generate the income they are looking for. They have to offer a wide spread. Considering they stated before launch that they wouldn’t put any ‘pay to win’ (in its traditional sense) type things in the store, that sort of limits what they can put in there.

Well I guess I don’t respect this model.. I would if they would have been strait about that from the beginning just saying “we will use a cash-shop model but you will need to buy the game” but they put it on the market as a B2P game. I don’t expect them to do anything for free (willing to buy expansions) It just is a problem the way they do it now.

Also see this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/buy-gold-with-gems-appearing-too-so-much/first#post4087876

Just to show how also other people feel how it negatively influences the game.

A payment-model becomes a problem if it negatively effects the game. Thats the question, not if “it’s only cosmetics”.

Facepunch.5710:

…a very successful GW2 in China means more resources will be allocated to ANet …

But not necessarily to GW2 – I don’t know where that leap of logic keeps coming into all these forum posts.

CureForLiving.5360:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

A better game for you. I’m not sure an expansion model would be better for Guild Wars 2. I enjoy the bi-weekly release cadence. I know you do not, but you can’t really speak for everyone when you (again) claim that an expansion model would be better for the game.

To each his/her own. =)

I have no issues with how the content gets to me (expansion or content patches), however it’s the quality of content that get my attention. I’m willing to give GW2 some slack for S1 as they were still figuring out how to do it, S2 is going to be the make or break for me at least.

THIS^ is precisely why I am kind of excited to see what LS 2 brings. If it’s shallow, rushed, and buggy content again I’ve gotta find something else. If quality ensues, I’m staying (and buying some gems to express approval for it).

Dusty Moon.4382:

The original idea for WoW’s sub was to pay for the rental of their servers until theirs came up.

KarateKid.5648:

Facepunch.5710:

…a very successful GW2 in China means more resources will be allocated to ANet …

But not necessarily to GW2 – I don’t know where that leap of logic keeps coming into all these forum posts.

With american tax laws on repatriating foreign income i don’t think little if any money will make it to Anet in Seattle. It makes too much sense to keep the money in china or move it to devs in taiwan/japan/korea who have more lenient repatriation laws.

Also i dont forsee any more resource allocation from ncsoft to anet if gw2 is self sufficient and not currently developing a project that has better roi than a potential new game (ie wild star/lineage 3/blade & soul western release).

Devata.6589:

Well I guess I don’t respect this model.. I would if they would have been strait about that from the beginning just saying “we will use a cash-shop model but you will need to buy the game” but they put it on the market as a B2P game. I don’t expect them to do anything for free (willing to buy expansions) It just is a problem the way they do it now.

They did tell us long before launch that they would have a gem shop though. They told us that they were keeping the buy to play model (and they have, you buy the game once – you play as long as you want. there is no requirement to purchase anything else in order continue playing) and that they would also do micro-transactions via the in game gem shop. All of this was stated well before launch, back when people were doing interviews, asking about sub fees and kitten. They also told us that the gem shop would not be ‘pay to win.’ That it would only contain cosmetic items. I remember youtube reviews from Dontain and Ensign (to name a couple) well before launch that talked about these things as well.

Also see this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/buy-gold-with-gems-appearing-too-so-much/first#post4087876

Just to show how also other people feel how it negatively influences the game.

A payment-model becomes a problem if it negatively effects the game. Thats the question, not if “it’s only cosmetics”.

I have mixed feelings on that myself. Honestly, I don’t see the advertisements all that often, but yes I’ve seen a few. On one hand, Anet has the right to promote any and all of their features as they choose, of which the ability to buy gems and convert them to gold is one. Amazingly there are people that aren’t aware that they can do this. On the other hand it does come off as a little sleazy. Just another company out to make a buck, although that’s not likely the intent at all.

I have no doubt that they created those ads to sell gems, not in the least. They are a business, businesses are in business to make money. Plain and simple. However, they could have easily done ‘buy gems, get this cool new armor’ type ads too. Perhaps they did the gems to gold due to supply and demand issues for gold to gems conversions. If people don’t convert gems to gold, eventually there won’t be gems for the other half of the equation – converting gold to gems. Its just a theory though.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

~

“They did tell us long before launch that they would have a gem shop though.” Yeah they said there would be a cash-shop not that they would used the cash-shop model.

“They told us that they were keeping the buy to play model.” Indeed.

“(and they have, you buy the game once – you play as long as you want. there is no requirement to purchase anything else in order continue playing)“ No we are talking about a payment model. It says something about how the company ears (most of) it’s money. GW2 does not earn (most of) it’s money with buy selling the game (and yes expansions are part of the game so count as well). That was a one-time income (it could been a steady flow of income if they focused on expansions). At this moment they earn most of there money with the cash-shop by focusing on that. Yes you need to buy the game but but you can’t consider it a B2P model when we are talking about a payment-model (what we are). At this moment it’s a cash-shop-model where you had to buy the game first.

Usually people talk about 3 payment-models: F2P, P2P and B2P. And that’s based on the 3 things a company usually focus on to earn it’s money. Micro-transactions, subscriptions or box-sales. (those names grew that way while not being completely accurate when literally reading what is says) If I say GW2 uses the F2P model (what is basically does) people would start yelling they don’t because you have to buy the game so by that fact it’s B2P. So I name it the cash-shop model. We also consider WoW a P2P game while in fact they also sell the game so why don’t we then name B2P? Simply because there main income comes from the subscription. GW2’s main income comes from the cash-shop not from game-sales so it does not use the B2P model.

I was mainly referring to that thread to show how people complain about cash-shop effect. Not about the fact that we have adds in the game. That’s just one of the things that comes with a cash-shop model.

Devata.6589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

~

“They did tell us long before launch that they would have a gem shop though.” Yeah they said there would be a cash-shop not that they would used the cash-shop model.

“They told us that they were keeping the buy to play model.” Indeed.

“(and they have, you buy the game once – you play as long as you want. there is no requirement to purchase anything else in order continue playing)“ No we are talking about a payment model. It says something about how the company ears (most of) it’s money. GW2 does not earn (most of) it’s money with buy selling the game (and yes expansions are part of the game so count as well). That was a one-time income (it could been a steady flow of income if they focused on expansions). At this moment they earn most of there money with the cash-shop by focusing on that. Yes you need to buy the game but but you can’t consider it a B2P model when we are talking about a payment-model (what we are). At this moment it’s a cash-shop-model where you had to buy the game first.

Usually people talk about 3 payment-models: F2P, P2P and B2P. And that’s based on the 3 things a company usually focus on to earn it’s money. Micro-transactions, subscriptions or box-sales. (those names grew that way while not being completely accurate when literally reading what is says) If I say GW2 uses the F2P model (what is basically does) people would start yelling they don’t because you have to buy the game so by that fact it’s B2P. So I name it the cash-shop model. We also consider WoW a P2P game while in fact they also sell the game so why don’t we then name B2P? Simply because there main income comes from the subscription. GW2’s main income comes from the cash-shop not from game-sales so it does not use the B2P model.

I was mainly referring to that thread to show how people complain about cash-shop effect. Not about the fact that we have adds in the game. That’s just one of the things that comes with a cash-shop model.

GW2 is buy to play, with a micro-transaction gem shop. Yes, the combination of the 2 is their income model. The gem shop is entirely optional though and we knew that to begin with. That has not changed. You can’t say you didn’t know. You can’t claim they changed from b2p to cash shop. They didn’kittens been this way since before day 1.

Free to play games require you to do those micro transactions to play the game in any type of effective manner. To progress, to access content. GW2 does not. You buy the game, you get all the base content of the game and you can play it as long as you desire. There will never be something in the store that requires you to purchase ‘x’ to access race ‘y’ or zone ‘b’. There isn’t component of the game play (and by game play, I’m not talking about collecting minis) that only available if you spend ‘x’ more.

Yes, they have cosmetic items in the store, such as minis and armor, that were added after the initial game content. If you want to consider that content (and I know some people do) Anet again already stated that there is no requirement to purchase that additional content in order to keep playing. It’s completely optional. Just like you didn’t have to purchase factions or nightfall to keep playing prophecies, that was optional additional content. So look at it that way, they are adding ‘new content’ that like factions and nightfall is completely optional to buy, it’s not going to stop or block you from playing your purchased game.

Sure, people kitten about it. But you know what? People will kitten about anything and everything. Some of the people doing the kittening in regards to certain changes where the ones that asked for that change implementation to begin with. So simply pointing out that people are kittening about yet something else really doesn’t do much for me. Same kitten, different day / topic.

Facepunch.5710:

I’m surprised by all the cynicism here. I’m not trying to be a fan boy, but it seems to me that a very successful GW2 in China means more resources will be allocated to ANet than otherwise. More resources means more design time means more content. It doesn’t mean that ANet will change direction, though, it probably means more Living Story and more gem store updates, so if that’s not your cup of tea then I guess it’s not good news for you, but if that’s the case you probably should’ve dropped the game a year ago.

It could be more or it could be less.
What is good for the Chinese version isn’t necessarily good for us.
If they end up the same. Great! More stuff for everyone.
If they end up diverging. Booo! Less stuff for everyone.

Can’t think of any gem store “update” I would call good.
A few of the LS were okay.
Someone people only play the forums.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

GW2 is buy to play, with a micro-transaction gem shop. Yes, the combination of the 2 is their income model. The gem shop is entirely optional though and we knew that to begin with. That has not changed. You can’t say you didn’t know. You can’t claim they changed from b2p to cash shop. They didn’kittens been this way since before day 1.

Free to play games require you to do those micro transactions to play the game in any type of effective manner. To progress, to access content. GW2 does not. You buy the game, you get all the base content of the game and you can play it as long as you desire. There will never be something in the store that requires you to purchase ‘x’ to access race ‘y’ or zone ‘b’. There isn’t component of the game play (and by game play, I’m not talking about collecting minis) that only available if you spend ‘x’ more.

Yes, they have cosmetic items in the store, such as minis and armor, that were added after the initial game content. If you want to consider that content (and I know some people do) Anet again already stated that there is no requirement to purchase that additional content in order to keep playing. It’s completely optional. Just like you didn’t have to purchase factions or nightfall to keep playing prophecies, that was optional additional content. So look at it that way, they are adding ‘new content’ that like factions and nightfall is completely optional to buy, it’s not going to stop or block you from playing your purchased game.

They said they would have a cash-shop and would use the B2P model (thats similar to what GW1 had). That is what they said indeed. However what we have now is the other way around. They have the cash-shop model but also sell the initial game.
That is a difference, a big one.

About how those F2P games make money. Many of them do but no there are also enough F2P games only (or mainly) selling cosmetics that you do not have to buy and that don’t lock of content behind a pay-wall.
Yes in the world of F2P games GW2 would be one of the better one (still not what I wanted because of the way is still effects the game). There is a reason I and many with me did go for GW2 and not for another F2P game. It’s to avoid exactly the sort of things we do now see in GW2.

Indeed, factions was not a required purchase but it did expand the game (added a second one really(. It’s what we should also have in GW2. Expansions to the game. You don’t need to buy them but you can. Meanwhile most of those cosmetics and rewards can just be in the game as part of that expansion. We then pay for the content we play.

“So look at it that way, they are adding ‘new content’ ~” It does not matter how I look at it, the way they do it now negatively effects the game for many people including me. No matter how good the excuse is.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/06/03/flameseeker-chronicles-the-strange-case-of-guild-wars-2s-rewar/ have a look at this, it’s similar to what I am saying. He is even trying to defend it sort of and his solution (some more nice general loot drops) is not what would work for me (it’s really strange that that is his solution because in the article he does say that specific loot is better) however it’s yet another person trying to explain how the current model does effect the game in a negative way.

Devata.6589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

GW2 is buy to play, with a micro-transaction gem shop. Yes, the combination of the 2 is their income model. The gem shop is entirely optional though and we knew that to begin with. That has not changed. You can’t say you didn’t know. You can’t claim they changed from b2p to cash shop. They didn’kittens been this way since before day 1.

Free to play games require you to do those micro transactions to play the game in any type of effective manner. To progress, to access content. GW2 does not. You buy the game, you get all the base content of the game and you can play it as long as you desire. There will never be something in the store that requires you to purchase ‘x’ to access race ‘y’ or zone ‘b’. There isn’t component of the game play (and by game play, I’m not talking about collecting minis) that only available if you spend ‘x’ more.

Yes, they have cosmetic items in the store, such as minis and armor, that were added after the initial game content. If you want to consider that content (and I know some people do) Anet again already stated that there is no requirement to purchase that additional content in order to keep playing. It’s completely optional. Just like you didn’t have to purchase factions or nightfall to keep playing prophecies, that was optional additional content. So look at it that way, they are adding ‘new content’ that like factions and nightfall is completely optional to buy, it’s not going to stop or block you from playing your purchased game.

They said they would have a cash-shop and would use the B2P model (thats similar to what GW1 had). That is what they said indeed. However what we have now is the other way around. They have the cash-shop model but also sell the initial game.
That is a difference, a big one.

About how those F2P games make money. Many of them do but no there are also enough F2P games only (or mainly) selling cosmetics that you do not have to buy and that don’t lock of content behind a pay-wall.
Yes in the world of F2P games GW2 would be one of the better one (still not what I wanted because of the way is still effects the game). There is a reason I and many with me did go for GW2 and not for another F2P game. It’s to avoid exactly the sort of things we do now see in GW2.

Indeed, factions was not a required purchase but it did expand the game (added a second one really(. It’s what we should also have in GW2. Expansions to the game. You don’t need to buy them but you can. Meanwhile most of those cosmetics and rewards can just be in the game as part of that expansion. We then pay for the content we play.

“So look at it that way, they are adding ‘new content’ ~” It does not matter how I look at it, the way they do it now negatively effects the game for many people including me. No matter how good the excuse is.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/06/03/flameseeker-chronicles-the-strange-case-of-guild-wars-2s-rewar/ have a look at this, it’s similar to what I am saying. He is even trying to defend it sort of and his solution (some more nice general loot drops) is not what would work for me (it’s really strange that that is his solution because in the article he does say that specific loot is better) however it’s yet another person trying to explain how the current model does effect the game in a negative way.

I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree, as I’m done arguing this point. Maybe it’s because 90% of the stuff in the cash shop doesn’t interest me, I don’t know, but this isn’t any different than GW1 in that respect. I bought the game, I can play it. I can spend more on new shinies that they add in the shop if I so desire. The same way I could in GW1. As an added bonus they update the game with new tidbits for me whether I spend a penny or not. shrug

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Devata.6589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

GW2 is buy to play, with a micro-transaction gem shop. Yes, the combination of the 2 is their income model. The gem shop is entirely optional though and we knew that to begin with. That has not changed. You can’t say you didn’t know. You can’t claim they changed from b2p to cash shop. They didn’kittens been this way since before day 1.

Free to play games require you to do those micro transactions to play the game in any type of effective manner. To progress, to access content. GW2 does not. You buy the game, you get all the base content of the game and you can play it as long as you desire. There will never be something in the store that requires you to purchase ‘x’ to access race ‘y’ or zone ‘b’. There isn’t component of the game play (and by game play, I’m not talking about collecting minis) that only available if you spend ‘x’ more.

Yes, they have cosmetic items in the store, such as minis and armor, that were added after the initial game content. If you want to consider that content (and I know some people do) Anet again already stated that there is no requirement to purchase that additional content in order to keep playing. It’s completely optional. Just like you didn’t have to purchase factions or nightfall to keep playing prophecies, that was optional additional content. So look at it that way, they are adding ‘new content’ that like factions and nightfall is completely optional to buy, it’s not going to stop or block you from playing your purchased game.

They said they would have a cash-shop and would use the B2P model (thats similar to what GW1 had). That is what they said indeed. However what we have now is the other way around. They have the cash-shop model but also sell the initial game.
That is a difference, a big one.

About how those F2P games make money. Many of them do but no there are also enough F2P games only (or mainly) selling cosmetics that you do not have to buy and that don’t lock of content behind a pay-wall.
Yes in the world of F2P games GW2 would be one of the better one (still not what I wanted because of the way is still effects the game). There is a reason I and many with me did go for GW2 and not for another F2P game. It’s to avoid exactly the sort of things we do now see in GW2.

Indeed, factions was not a required purchase but it did expand the game (added a second one really(. It’s what we should also have in GW2. Expansions to the game. You don’t need to buy them but you can. Meanwhile most of those cosmetics and rewards can just be in the game as part of that expansion. We then pay for the content we play.

“So look at it that way, they are adding ‘new content’ ~” It does not matter how I look at it, the way they do it now negatively effects the game for many people including me. No matter how good the excuse is.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/06/03/flameseeker-chronicles-the-strange-case-of-guild-wars-2s-rewar/ have a look at this, it’s similar to what I am saying. He is even trying to defend it sort of and his solution (some more nice general loot drops) is not what would work for me (it’s really strange that that is his solution because in the article he does say that specific loot is better) however it’s yet another person trying to explain how the current model does effect the game in a negative way.

I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree, as I’m done arguing this point. Maybe it’s because 90% of the stuff in the cash shop doesn’t interest me, I don’t know, but this isn’t any different than GW1 in that respect. I bought the game, I can play it. I can spend more on new shinies that they add in the shop if I so desire. The same way I could in GW1. As an added bonus they update the game with new tidbits for me whether I spend a penny or not. shrug

Yeah I guess so. It’s btw not just the items in the cash-shop it’s the fact that they are there in stead of in the world and the gold-grind in the world. It’s not that there are items in the cash-shop I desperately want and now I am mad because I can’t get them. Thats not the case. I just want them to be in the game so they are fun to get and add something to the content. Hope you understand that difference.

Devata.6589:

Yeah I guess so. It’s btw not just the items in the cash-shop it’s the fact that they are there in stead of in the world and the gold-grind in the world. It’s not that there are items in the cash-shop I desperately want and now I am mad because I can’t get them. Thats not the case. I just want them to be in the game so they are fun to get and add something to the content. Hope you understand that difference.

But what can they add in the gemstore then?
Every single thing they add will be something someone would want to be able to get out in the world.

I suppose they could go the GW1 path and release skills and power buying, but I don’t think many peolpe would want that to be honest.

lordkrall.7241:

Devata.6589:

Yeah I guess so. It’s btw not just the items in the cash-shop it’s the fact that they are there in stead of in the world and the gold-grind in the world. It’s not that there are items in the cash-shop I desperately want and now I am mad because I can’t get them. Thats not the case. I just want them to be in the game so they are fun to get and add something to the content. Hope you understand that difference.

But what can they add in the gemstore then?
Every single thing they add will be something someone would want to be able to get out in the world.

I suppose they could go the GW1 path and release skills and power buying, but I don’t think many peolpe would want that to be honest.

If they focus on expansions the cash-shop would be extra so there would also be less need. However that they could put in for sure are out of game things.

Name-changer, the full-makeover kit, race-changer, seks-changer, level-resetter, guid-namge changer and so on. All that sort of things.
If they would also give you the amount of character slots as there are professions or races whatever is most they could also put additional character slots. (now they gave not enough character slots to make all professions).

With only sort of things you had a cash-shop that does not influence the game at all. That would be perfect but I could even be oke if they sold a few ingame-items when keeping it very limited. Lets say they would have5 skins, and 6 mini’s in the cash-shop and really keeping it so low, maybe added at most 1 more skin or one new mini when an expansion was released. Also the town-cloth would be a ok for the cash-shop the way they worked before. Now that they are becoming real skins not anymore. So if they really feel the need to have a few more things then only those ‘ouf of game’ items I could life with that when keeping it very limited. Best would be only those out of game things.

Those ou of game things like a name-changer or sex-changer don’t even make sense in the the world.

But focus mainly on the expansions also releasing a CE edition to maybe earn a little more.