Guild Wars 2

This might seem to be a slightly odd set of topics to combine, but as a player who runs 100% zerk on all pve grouping characters and expects the same from other groupies, a bit of explanation might be in order for the non-zerk crowd.

The reason zerk-groups work is because the DPS is so high that the target/s die before they can harm the group. Currently, having the entire team in zerk is over-kill. It’s FUN over-kill, but not really required to make the team successful — non-zerk pugs are just a tad slower and less fun.

We can tell instantly when the pug/s are not in zerk, but depending on how many of them there are, it may not really mater: 1 isn’t such a big deal, 2 yields some grumbles on vent, 3 non-zerk and we seriously think about just leaving and starting recruit over again.

If the DPS of full zerk players is reduced, our desire and willingness to carry non-zerk will be reduced. If it’s a big reduction, we’re going to start insisting on 100% zerk for every single member — no more shrugging and just carrying a low-dps player or class (or two) along for the ride.

—

So, to support what I suspect will be much stricter grouping requirements that will come with a zerk DPS nerf, the LFG tool needs to be able to set barriers to joining, including default barriers you want for all LFGs you post:

1. Level barrier; eg. no character below L80 can join.
2. Gear barriers; eg. no character wearing less than exotics.
3. Experience barriers; eg. all-paths completed for the given dungeon.
4. Stat barriers; eg. no less than 50 AR, 10k AP, or XXX for power/precision/crit-dam/etc.

Barriers prevent playing and applying on a low level necro while intending to group on your L80 zerk warrior, but that can be handled by permitting people to apply as one of their other characters while actually playing something else.

Also, it would be nice if people applying for the group were placed in a pre-joining state/panel on the tool instead of simply popped into the group. This would permit crafting a nice balanced team; ie. you might be OK bringing one necro, but three is a bit much for you. Kicking post-join is a horrible option to rely on for attempting to craft a good team (you can’t see 6th+ apps and some take it personally rather than as a group-pruning method).

Edited by Moderator.

When you advertise party requirements and someone not meeting those requirements sneaks in, they’re deliberately creating more work and hassle for everyone in the party who cares about teamwork and meets the requirements. That’s the very definition of a leech.

How would you feel about someone silently joining your high-rank fractal run with only 10 AR? Or a newbie in your “COF speedrun” who doesn’t understand the cages? Creates more work, right? Same thing.

(BTW, it’s “zerk” not “zerg” — different beasts ^^)

The thing about zerk is it doesnt really take any talent and just displays bad pve in the game I think. If you actually watch runs of official hardcore pve guilds (#lolhardcorepve), its pretty much full zerk with eles and fireswords, stacking a boss, timewarping, finished. Im actually embarassed as a player to see that in game as hardcore pve and id be embarassed to show my friends joining gw2 that this is hardcore pve. Hardcore pve should be hours of practice by a group of dedicated people to practice mechanics, positioning, build coordination, to kill a boss. Not skip 80% of the mobs and firesword the 2 bosses in the instance just to get done with your dungeon as quick as possible. I am glad they are nerfing zerk a tad and im sure future bosses will be designed to prevent zerk.

We have already seen that in today’s update that has the watchknights hit extremely hard(event to tanky people) at melee range. Thats not necessarily nerfing zerk but it is nerfing zerk warriors who go with hundred blades, stack 25 vulnerability and might, then hundred blades the enemy for 50k.

I think it would have helped with longer descripitions for what teams search for, most new (and a lot of not-so-new) players dont understand the “codes”.
This wouldnt help against people who dont care, but maybe against some of the kicks people dont understand.
A lot of people dont ask in forum/chat because they are afraid of beeing silly, and some responses is L2P noob lololol, so they just read, goes out and gets zerker gear without knowing the point of it.
It is sad that everything is about damage and how fast you can run through stuff, but I guess that how it is.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Hardcore pve should be hours of practice by a group of dedicated people to practice mechanics, positioning, build coordination, to kill a boss.

That’s precisely what zerk play is. No one just zones into Arah their first time, teleports to each boss, and slays it with a few choice 100-blades. It just looks that way when you watch it being done by people that have done it MANY times and work together well.

BTW, harder content with far better rewards would be good, but making current content slower is definitely bad. Slowing current dungeons down with their paltry rewards just puts them into the “wasted space // one time for fun” category. Take a look at TA aether path. It’s totally and completely ignored by everyone. It’s not so much that it’s harder, but that is just plain too long and slow for the result.

But, to put this back on the LFG tool track, the harder and slower the content, the more important it is to make sure ALL member of the party meet your requirements before you start. Why? Because a single leech becomes completely intolerable rather than something you can shrug off. That goes for whatever you want in your group to tackle this harder content, not just zerk.

Zerk is just a handy example for the current situation because it is the defacto standard for PVE.

SkylightMoon.1980:

The thing about zerk is it doesnt really take any talent and just displays bad pve in the game I think. If you actually watch runs of official hardcore pve guilds (#lolhardcorepve), its pretty much full zerk with eles and fireswords, stacking a boss, timewarping, finished. Im actually embarassed as a player to see that in game as hardcore pve and id be embarassed to show my friends joining gw2 that this is hardcore pve. Hardcore pve should be hours of practice by a group of dedicated people to practice mechanics, positioning, build coordination, to kill a boss. Not skip 80% of the mobs and firesword the 2 bosses in the instance just to get done with your dungeon as quick as possible. I am glad they are nerfing zerk a tad and im sure future bosses will be designed to prevent zerk.

#AwesomeHardcorePve
#AwesomeFireyFunSword
#AwesomeQuaggansVsLupi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlExHCTpZxw&list=UUPOv4tOYJRRG3kcUTBn4NUQ&feature=share

We have already seen that in today’s update that has the watchknights hit extremely hard(event to tanky people) at melee range. Thats not necessarily nerfing zerk but it is nerfing zerk warriors who go with hundred blades, stack 25 vulnerability and might, then hundred blades the enemy for 50k.

This reminds me of how a certain DnT member solo’d his platform because he is the only zerker warrior. Ironic !!!

Iris Ng.9845:

SkylightMoon.1980:

The thing about zerk is it doesnt really take any talent and just displays bad pve in the game I think. If you actually watch runs of official hardcore pve guilds (#lolhardcorepve), its pretty much full zerk with eles and fireswords, stacking a boss, timewarping, finished. Im actually embarassed as a player to see that in game as hardcore pve and id be embarassed to show my friends joining gw2 that this is hardcore pve. Hardcore pve should be hours of practice by a group of dedicated people to practice mechanics, positioning, build coordination, to kill a boss. Not skip 80% of the mobs and firesword the 2 bosses in the instance just to get done with your dungeon as quick as possible. I am glad they are nerfing zerk a tad and im sure future bosses will be designed to prevent zerk.

#AwesomeHardcorePve
#AwesomeFireyFunSword
#AwesomeQuaggansVsLupi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlExHCTpZxw&list=UUPOv4tOYJRRG3kcUTBn4NUQ&feature=share

We have already seen that in today’s update that has the watchknights hit extremely hard(event to tanky people) at melee range. Thats not necessarily nerfing zerk but it is nerfing zerk warriors who go with hundred blades, stack 25 vulnerability and might, then hundred blades the enemy for 50k.

This reminds me of how a certain DnT member solo’d his platform because he is the only zerker warrior. Ironic !!!

Again I see nothing but stakcing lupi on a wall and bursting him lol. Its kinda a joke.

Nury.3062:

If i could give this thread a -1 i would.

“3 non-zerk and we seriously think about just leaving and starting recruit over again — too much work to carry 3x leeches.”

non zerks are “leeches”……….nice…

Considering they do less dmg and bring less utility, yes, they are leeches.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Iris Ng.9845:

SkylightMoon.1980:

The thing about zerk is it doesnt really take any talent and just displays bad pve in the game I think. If you actually watch runs of official hardcore pve guilds (#lolhardcorepve), its pretty much full zerk with eles and fireswords, stacking a boss, timewarping, finished. Im actually embarassed as a player to see that in game as hardcore pve and id be embarassed to show my friends joining gw2 that this is hardcore pve. Hardcore pve should be hours of practice by a group of dedicated people to practice mechanics, positioning, build coordination, to kill a boss. Not skip 80% of the mobs and firesword the 2 bosses in the instance just to get done with your dungeon as quick as possible. I am glad they are nerfing zerk a tad and im sure future bosses will be designed to prevent zerk.

#AwesomeHardcorePve
#AwesomeFireyFunSword
#AwesomeQuaggansVsLupi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlExHCTpZxw&list=UUPOv4tOYJRRG3kcUTBn4NUQ&feature=share

We have already seen that in today’s update that has the watchknights hit extremely hard(event to tanky people) at melee range. Thats not necessarily nerfing zerk but it is nerfing zerk warriors who go with hundred blades, stack 25 vulnerability and might, then hundred blades the enemy for 50k.

This reminds me of how a certain DnT member solo’d his platform because he is the only zerker warrior. Ironic !!!

Again I see nothing but stakcing lupi on a wall and bursting him lol. Its kinda a joke.

Have you tried it? Certainly, don’t you need to dodge when stacking against the wall? And you can’t use any healing or utilities skills in the quaggan form, not to mention losing 400+ Power, 10% crit chance, crit damage and all the bonus stuff. It’s how a hardcore pve guild challenges themselves and you still think it’s easy?
But again,
Have you ever melee’d lupi?
Have you?…
hur hur hur

GROMIT.7829:

It’s funny that you say zerker’s clear dungeons faster when my Tanky/DPS warrior build does … -whatver-

They do. In fact, feel free to beat those ‘elitist’ zerkers in their own game.
Caudescus Manor, path 3. World record. 3:33.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Again I see nothing but stakcing lupi on a wall and bursting him lol. Its kinda a joke.

Please post your pro vid or solo vid since it’s apparently so easy to do

Esquilax.3491:

This kind of player is a cancer on all games. I bet you kick players left and right if they’re not up to your standards, while laughing about it on vent. Scum.

If it’s specified on LFG “80s, zerk/scholars only – speed run.” and some guy with clerics showed up, how would you feel?

While I don’t agree with OP having a strict filter (though I suggested it before, I had a change of heart since it will “strictly” alienate some people) – if I specify a requirement on LFG, I expect people who are joining MY group to comply with MY requirement. Otherwise, expect a kick and if you send me a PM asking why I kicked you, I will refer you back to my LFG description. If you trashtalk me, I will report and ignore you.

I will kick anyone who doesn’t fit into the category. It’s not being elitist, it’s about saving myself from hassle of people who doesn’t suit my preferred run.

You call us zerkers elitist for trying to play how we want, yet you are “forcing” us to play with trash builds.

tl:dr: I want to group with players who share the same interest as me, kitten me right?

Here’s a question.
After almost 2 years, do people still find these dungeons fun?
I know I don’t, I just want get my loot asap and go back to WvW.

Nick.6972:

Here’s a question.
After almost 2 years, do people still find these dungeons fun?
I know I don’t, I just want get my loot asap and go back to WvW.

Some people do it for loot/money or for tokens to forge. Personally I never really liked the “stack in X spot to win” & “skip 60%+ of all mobs”. Speed dungeon running is still a good source of income, maybe 2nd (after champ farming but better than world boss farming).

To the OP, personally, I’d never want that much oppression (a bit extreme, but I’m tired) in a LFG tool. If I see a post that asks for zerkers only, I happily stay clear of it. Personally I hate the zerker game play, so I avoid it whenever I can. But at the same time, I have gotten people in higher level fractals with less AR than desirable. But I’d rather have (and have to pick up) a good player with less AR that loses ~50% of their hp every agony, than a dumb one who dies from the bosses attacks every time (not saying that, it’s you personally or even a zerker, just random people I’ve played with who don’t know how to dodge). Besides, I’m usually happy to teach new people mechanics to a fight. And based on the PUGs I’ve played with so are most people. Many people are willing to spend 30 sec to explain a fight if someone just asks.

Honestly it sounds like you should just get 4 like minded people (or 3 more based on your post) and just play together. Or just join other “zerk only/speed run groups”. I can’t see most people wanting the level of control that you do, just so you can get your dungeon runs done a couple of min faster. It would just cause a greater separation in the player base and we really don’t need more of those.

never actually tried any of the dungeons here due to the fact I get greeted with “zerg only” on the lfg tool if the player base was more understanding then maybe zerks or zergs would gain more people interested

lisla.9057:

never actually tried any of the dungeons here due to the fact I get greeted with “zerg only” on the lfg tool if the player base was more understanding then maybe zerks or zergs would gain more people interested

I don’t understand this argument… "I get greeted with “zerg only” on the lfg tool"

How hard is it to create your own party indicating “everyone welcome”? I mean, I do it and get people even during off-hours…

Zerker won’t get nerfed enough for any thing to change.
Besides, the problem is not zerker. The gear does what it should do, the problem is the content is so old and the mechanics and ai so terrible that there is no reason to fear for your life enough to build any defense.

Creating an add is easy, but starting a group to do something completely new to with strangers can be intimidating. Some people are not very nice to newbies or anyone who stumbles sometimes.

I would also like the LFG to have a bit more text. It would be easier to be able to say what you want. On the other hand, I really wish people would read the adds. When I look for a group specified ‘Relaxed run, all classes, lvl 75+, P1’ the group fill in a minute or two max. I’d like to put ‘no speedrun’ in the add, but there isn’t enough space and I also figure people would speedread past the ‘no’.

As it is I do often get mellow people, but I have also gotten a group of zerker-speedrunners. I grit my teeth and ran after them as fast as the little Asura could. As a zerker warrior she could hold her own, but I did not have fun.

fadeaway.2807:

Zerker won’t get nerfed enough for any thing to change.
Besides, the problem is not zerker. The gear does what it should do, the problem is the content is so old and the mechanics and ai so terrible that there is no reason to fear for your life enough to build any defense.

Indeed. We have little incentive to play as anything more than what is fun. I love dealing lots of damage. Sure, it’s also fun to play a support role and help others do more damage or survive a little longer, but nothing is as satisfying as those big numbers.

I’d much rather play my heal Guardian (full cleric) than a Zerk Guard, but there’s no need for it in PvE, it just slows down everything and everyone.

Here we go with another thread which causes me to feel woe for humanity.

“Lol zerk bads” “lol zerk no skill” “lolpvt4eva” y’all don’t seem to get that if it was sooooooo easy then everyone would be soloing Lupicus. But you aren’t, and you can’t, and it’s hard for some of us even in 5 player parties to do a fight in less time than a coordinated skilled player can solo.

I get that you don’t want to feel inferior…. But when you say stuff like this it’s just… Sad. :/

Edit: btw OP I think your idea is great.

wow and I remember pre-release this elitist attitude was something people were promoting GW2 to something against that.

I don’t even zerk and I think this would be a good idea, those that want to zerk can zerk and those that don’t want to don’t have to. No more getting kicked from groups.

+1

What elitism?
If I’m putting “80 Only/Exp/DPS” message, I simply want to finish the dungeons as quick as its possible.
If you don’t like it, you don’t have to join, you can make your own LFG.

Where’s the problem?
I’ve been playing with Pugs and speed clear teams all the time, and I’ve never been kicked.

+1 for the OP

I recommended something very similar to this when the LFG tool was introduced. Back then the general consensus was that having an open field for text descriptions was adequate, and that any additional filters would promote ‘elitism’.

People keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

Nury.3062:

If i could give this thread a -1 i would.

“3 non-zerk and we seriously think about just leaving and starting recruit over again — too much work to carry 3x leeches.”

non zerks are “leeches”……….nice…

well, it is not a nice way to say it, but simply true. And it is purely the design´s fault. Blame the game, not the player.

gw2lfg site already got it right when it comes to filters(and Anet could always add more), I can’t imagine how Anet missed these details.

It’s doable to add more filters or search parameters(speed run/dungeon meta build toons only, experienced only/know the content but no build restrictions, newbies/everyone welcome, no skipping/dodging/evil zerkers/exploiting etc.).

The thing is, the PTV/Clerics/Whatever, are probably offended by Zerkers for being able to clear the dungeon so fast.

I’d like to be clear before saying the following that if you prefer to have a group full of zerker stats that’s your choice and you’re free to make it. There are time when I ask for the same, but it’s not always optimal.

How you know someone isn’t in zerk = They’re not dying every 5 seconds.

Being in full zerk is great for DPS but imho, at least one person not in zerk is a good idea. Because they’ll be there to pick the glassy ones up when they fall. And I say when because I’ve done many zerk runs and someone always does fall.
So sure you can blow through the dungeon fast but there’s such a thing as too much of a good thing. So remember to welcome at least one sturdy individual otherwise you could potentially be looking at a lot of wipes.

A decent proposal.
All the whine on the OP’s cannot be understood by me.
Separating elitist’s from casuals is not bad, not bad at all.
You set up the criteria’s. Naturally, only those who are eligible can see and join such parties.
No rage on pugs, no rage from “speadclirers”, and everyone is happy.
Maybe this game has no trinity, but the roles are somewhat defined. Even something as simple as “we want a melee DPS” “A range DPS!” “Support Guardian plz we die with our full zerk!” options would be just fine.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Iris Ng.9845:

SkylightMoon.1980:

The thing about zerk is it doesnt really take any talent and just displays bad pve in the game I think. If you actually watch runs of official hardcore pve guilds (#lolhardcorepve), its pretty much full zerk with eles and fireswords, stacking a boss, timewarping, finished. Im actually embarassed as a player to see that in game as hardcore pve and id be embarassed to show my friends joining gw2 that this is hardcore pve. Hardcore pve should be hours of practice by a group of dedicated people to practice mechanics, positioning, build coordination, to kill a boss. Not skip 80% of the mobs and firesword the 2 bosses in the instance just to get done with your dungeon as quick as possible. I am glad they are nerfing zerk a tad and im sure future bosses will be designed to prevent zerk.

#AwesomeHardcorePve
#AwesomeFireyFunSword
#AwesomeQuaggansVsLupi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlExHCTpZxw&list=UUPOv4tOYJRRG3kcUTBn4NUQ&feature=share

We have already seen that in today’s update that has the watchknights hit extremely hard(event to tanky people) at melee range. Thats not necessarily nerfing zerk but it is nerfing zerk warriors who go with hundred blades, stack 25 vulnerability and might, then hundred blades the enemy for 50k.

This reminds me of how a certain DnT member solo’d his platform because he is the only zerker warrior. Ironic !!!

Again I see nothing but stakcing lupi on a wall and bursting him lol. Its kinda a joke.

I agree that stacking is kind of ridiculous. Although it’s true you do need to know where to position yourself and understand the bosses, it still really doesn’t require much more than that. People can say stacking and zerking takes practice/talent all they want, it doesn’t. I’m not saying people shouldn’t do it, because I do it every dungeon run I do and it works very well. But I do it, and I’m sure most others as well, because dungeons really aren’t that fun.. Why spend an hour + doing something that you don’t enjoy. Maybe some people do, I really don’t, lol. I would be embarrassed to show someone what a dungeon is with an experienced group because of how bland it is, but I wouldn’t change it either because it gets the job done.
Point though, anyone who says stacking/zerking, what ever takes any kind of skill is completely nuts. All you need to do is see where to stack once and you’ll know to stack there every time in the future and bam, you’re officially a dungeon pro.

Does it take skill to pew pew from 1500 units away?

O.o

SkylightMoon.1980:

The thing about zerk is it doesnt really take any talent and just displays bad pve in the game I think. If you actually watch runs of official hardcore pve guilds (#lolhardcorepve), its pretty much full zerk with eles and fireswords, stacking a boss, timewarping, finished. Im actually embarassed as a player to see that in game as hardcore pve and id be embarassed to show my friends joining gw2 that this is hardcore pve. Hardcore pve should be hours of practice by a group of dedicated people to practice mechanics, positioning, build coordination, to kill a boss. Not skip 80% of the mobs and firesword the 2 bosses in the instance just to get done with your dungeon as quick as possible. I am glad they are nerfing zerk a tad and im sure future bosses will be designed to prevent zerk.

We have already seen that in today’s update that has the watchknights hit extremely hard(event to tanky people) at melee range. Thats not necessarily nerfing zerk but it is nerfing zerk warriors who go with hundred blades, stack 25 vulnerability and might, then hundred blades the enemy for 50k.

I think its hypocrite of you since you don’t really play PvE that often. For doing full Zerker run with my guild, this took a lot of training and adaptation to be able to make these runs smoothly. And we took a lot of information from the speed runner before us, so i have a huge respect for them that find all those tricks, builds, fighting strategy, etc. Keep in mind that a lot of people are saying the same thing you just did about WvW, that its no skills you just zerg everything and that all. So if you believe that these people are not right, then maybe you can be wrong about Hardcore PvE and the ’’lack’’ of skill needed.

somsom.5201:

Nury.3062:

If i could give this thread a -1 i would.

“3 non-zerk and we seriously think about just leaving and starting recruit over again — too much work to carry 3x leeches.”

non zerks are “leeches”……….nice…

Considering they do less dmg and bring less utility, yes, they are leeches.

You heard it here first. Berserker gear brings “utility.” Five signet warrior brings the biggest utility EVER!

This is why I don’t pug.

Darkobra.6439:

somsom.5201:

Nury.3062:

If i could give this thread a -1 i would.

“3 non-zerk and we seriously think about just leaving and starting recruit over again — too much work to carry 3x leeches.”

non zerks are “leeches”……….nice…

Considering they do less dmg and bring less utility, yes, they are leeches.

You heard it here first. Berserker gear brings “utility.” Five signet warrior brings the biggest utility EVER!

This is why I don’t pug.

Well in a good full zerker group i always have 25 Might, 25 Vulnerability, constant fury, banner of strenght and discipline, usually have reflect or Aegis at the right time, boons at the rigth time, etc. Its not that full DPS build bring more utilities, its just that when you get better at the game you finish by going for a full DPS build because they perform better. And if you a better player you gonna use your utilities more efficiently.

Full DPS usually have less utilities, but good player use only the best utilities and use them better (and they also usually have full DPS build, because its better).

You fell under the same presumption he did. That has nothing to do with your gear. That’s you doing that. You could have no armour on and still know how to stack vulnerabilities and might.

Using gear as ANY form of ANY merit just makes me think the WoW outcasts that couldn’t quite cut it have finally found their new home.

It’s always funny reading something like this.
Ask anyone how to build a profession and they’ll say “go full, this game doesn’t provide a means of agro, so tank is useless and so is healer”.

Alright then, toss them zerker Warriors with GS & A/A in a pit with a champ (Mario platforms), what do you get? Them running for dear life and 0 damage, “but but, it works on a dummy and in zergs I can hit for a million damage I tell you”.

It’s true that GW2 isn’t spouse to be a holy trinity game, that ALSO means it’s not spouse to be full DPS.
You might be able to one shot trash mobs, and flatten CoF with a party of them, but that’s about it.
In a non full zerker party, 1 full zerker is actually dragging the team down, he spends half his time running or dead on the ground, how much damage is he doing then? Not to mention when someone has to stop to rez them up.

I remember a few weeks ago in AC we had a Warrior in a party 2,5K AP and already with a Legendary, full zerker no doubt.
You know what he did in the run? Dead most of the time (not joking, he wasn’t lasting 15 second on any boss) and the entire time nagging on /p chat to get a guy that was level 78 kicked, a guy that by the way was alive and well.
You gotta love the full zerker mentality, “I only died because you weren’t doing enough damage”, so now other players have to baby sit you? What happened to each players takes care of himself and is responsible for his survivability?

Darkobra.6439:

You fell under the same presumption he did. That has nothing to do with your gear. That’s you doing that. You could have no armour on and still know how to stack vulnerabilities and might.

Using gear as ANY form of ANY merit just makes me think the WoW outcasts that couldn’t quite cut it have finally found their new home.

I didn’t felt under any presumption. I specifically said, its not about the gear, its only because good player use good utilities and use full DPS. That is why USUALLY full DPS also bring the best utilities. Not because they are full DPS, but because they are good players. So why said that i felt under the same presumption?

Dean Calaway.9718:

Alright then, toss them zerker Warriors with GS & A/A in a pit with a champ (Mario platforms), what do you get? Them running for dear life and 0 damage, “but but, it works on a dummy and in zergs I can hit for a million damage I tell you”.

This is exactly what happen during the marionette. People were toss in a pit to fight some champion. I was on my full DPS build and had no problem, while some people in defensive gear die. But again here its not because of the gear or trait. Its about the skill of the player and the knowledge of the fight.

Dean Calaway.9718:

I remember a few weeks ago in AC we had a Warrior in a party 2,5K AP and already with a Legendary, full zerker no doubt.
You know what he did in the run? Dead most of the time (not joking, he wasn’t lasting 15 second on any boss) and the entire time nagging on /p chat to get a guy that was level 78 kicked, a guy that by the way was alive and well.
You gotta love the full zerker mentality, “I only died because you weren’t doing enough damage”, so now other players have to baby sit you? What happened to each players takes care of himself and is responsible for his survivability?

Two things here. You need more skill and knowledge if you gonna play full DPS. You need to know what to do in each encounter to survive because if you just stand there you gonna die. Not everybody should go full DPS and usually a couple of knight pieces of armor will make you a better player. Because its true a dead DPS is no dps. If you can have the biggest DPS and stay alive then good for you. But don’t stay full DPS if you can’t stay up.

Also, what the guys said is partially right. Some strategy only work if the party does enough DPS. If the party don’t do enough DPS, full DPS player will die even if they are freaking good. The point where the guys was wrong is to put that on the other member of the party. It was his job to figure out that the party didn’t had enough DPS and he should had use another strategy. Full DPS only work if you know what you do and have the skill to back up your lack of defense.

I think you’re missing the point. The fact is that hardcore pve in this game has been reduced to players using bad game mechanics(bad mob/boss mechanics and fgs stacking) to rush through dungeons. I think its also sad because I dont think the players are bad but I think the content offered is so easy(besides liadri which was certainly more difficult and fun and felt rewarding upon completion) that players are forced to make up new ways to make it challenging. Make liadri difficulty 5 man instances and that would be pretty cool.

Liadri is the best boss in this game so far, too bad all bad players were whining so much.

Thaddeus.4891:

Darkobra.6439:

You fell under the same presumption he did. That has nothing to do with your gear. That’s you doing that. You could have no armour on and still know how to stack vulnerabilities and might.

Using gear as ANY form of ANY merit just makes me think the WoW outcasts that couldn’t quite cut it have finally found their new home.

I didn’t felt under any presumption. I specifically said, its not about the gear, its only because good player use good utilities and use full DPS. That is why USUALLY full DPS also bring the best utilities. Not because they are full DPS, but because they are good players. So why said that i felt under the same presumption?

Dean Calaway.9718:

Alright then, toss them zerker Warriors with GS & A/A in a pit with a champ (Mario platforms), what do you get? Them running for dear life and 0 damage, “but but, it works on a dummy and in zergs I can hit for a million damage I tell you”.

This is exactly what happen during the marionette. People were toss in a pit to fight some champion. I was on my full DPS build and had no problem, while some people in defensive gear die. But again here its not because of the gear or trait. Its about the skill of the player and the knowledge of the fight.

Dean Calaway.9718:

I remember a few weeks ago in AC we had a Warrior in a party 2,5K AP and already with a Legendary, full zerker no doubt.
You know what he did in the run? Dead most of the time (not joking, he wasn’t lasting 15 second on any boss) and the entire time nagging on /p chat to get a guy that was level 78 kicked, a guy that by the way was alive and well.
You gotta love the full zerker mentality, “I only died because you weren’t doing enough damage”, so now other players have to baby sit you? What happened to each players takes care of himself and is responsible for his survivability?

Two things here. You need more skill and knowledge if you gonna play full DPS. You need to know what to do in each encounter to survive because if you just stand there you gonna die. Not everybody should go full DPS and usually a couple of knight pieces of armor will make you a better player. Because its true a dead DPS is no dps. If you can have the biggest DPS and stay alive then good for you. But don’t stay full DPS if you can’t stay up.

Also, what the guys said is partially right. Some strategy only work if the party does enough DPS. If the party don’t do enough DPS, full DPS player will die even if they are freaking good. The point where the guys was wrong is to put that on the other member of the party. It was his job to figure out that the party didn’t had enough DPS and he should had use another strategy. Full DPS only work if you know what you do and have the skill to back up your lack of defense.

Very well said, Thaddeus. I think I will just quote your post to counter against those #DeadDPSisNoDPS argument from now on.

To someone who said every party should have a sturdy member to pick other glassy members up, have you ever wondered why they were down in the first place? Isn’t it because 4 people have to make up for the DPS of 5? So instead of having a reviving nanny who is practically a dead weight, wouldn’t it be better to have a decent DPS instead?

On topic, it’s a nice idea to have more restriction in the LFG tool because most people never read the ad description anyways. I remember the time when I asked for ‘No Guards’, then 3 guards joined and one persistently rejoined just to hurl insults at us for not knowing the game. That said, I’m pretty comfortable with the current state. Underperformance + Uncooperativeness = Kick. Very simple. Very effective.

SkylightMoon.1980:

I think you’re missing the point. The fact is that hardcore pve in this game has been reduced to players using bad game mechanics(bad mob/boss mechanics and fgs stacking) to rush through dungeons. I think its also sad because I dont think the players are bad but I think the content offered is so easy(besides liadri which was certainly more difficult and fun and felt rewarding upon completion) that players are forced to make up new ways to make it challenging. Make liadri difficulty 5 man instances and that would be pretty cool.

Yes, that would be nice. But you’d see those same people from the speed run video’s crushing it and yet tons of qq posts that it’s too hard, heck we’ve already seen it many times. Most of the people in those guilds are the person that runs full zerker melee in a pug fractal 50 and outlasts all the ranged bunker builds because he know the game and the mechanics and has the skill to back it up. Get 5 players like that together, organized on mumble and they will always crush content. And they’ll make it look so easy that onlookers will watch and say that takes no skill.

Algreg.3629:

Nury.3062:

non zerks are “leeches”……….nice…

well, it is not a nice way to say it, but simply true.

no, it’s not true. there’s a difference between “you’re not 100% as effective as we are” and “you don’t contribute anything at all”, which is what a leech is.

it’s a scale, not a binary.

I QQd once about Simin being really hard and I hated how I had to switch to berserker gear from my pvt.

Then I saw 5 naked rangers killing her perfectly. Then I QQd more quietly.

Now look at me!

Anyway, if you make stuff too hard casuals will QQ. If you leave stuff the way it is semi casuals will QQ.

Point is, the hardcores will get it done and in the best way and they will never have to QQ.

SkylightMoon.1980:

The thing about zerk is it doesnt really take any talent and just displays bad pve in the game I think. If you actually watch runs of official hardcore pve guilds (#lolhardcorepve), its pretty much full zerk with eles and fireswords, stacking a boss, timewarping, finished. Im actually embarassed as a player to see that in game as hardcore pve and id be embarassed to show my friends joining gw2 that this is hardcore pve. Hardcore pve should be hours of practice by a group of dedicated people to practice mechanics, positioning, build coordination, to kill a boss. Not skip 80% of the mobs and firesword the 2 bosses in the instance just to get done with your dungeon as quick as possible. I am glad they are nerfing zerk a tad and im sure future bosses will be designed to prevent zerk.

We have already seen that in today’s update that has the watchknights hit extremely hard(event to tanky people) at melee range. Thats not necessarily nerfing zerk but it is nerfing zerk warriors who go with hundred blades, stack 25 vulnerability and might, then hundred blades the enemy for 50k.

The AI mechanics are bad, what do you expect? To have people self handicapping themselves to make it look challenging? please.

You also make it sound like running full glass cannon is more forgiving than being a pvt bulky meatshield. One of those has less room for mistakes like it or not.

Okuza.5210:

We can tell instantly when the pug/s are not in zerk.

How :o

Signets? Utilities? Foods? Ascended weapon color?

SkylightMoon.1980:

I think you’re missing the point. The fact is that hardcore pve in this game has been reduced to players using bad game mechanics(bad mob/boss mechanics and fgs stacking) to rush through dungeons. I think its also sad because I dont think the players are bad but I think the content offered is so easy(besides liadri which was certainly more difficult and fun and felt rewarding upon completion) that players are forced to make up new ways to make it challenging. Make liadri difficulty 5 man instances and that would be pretty cool.

Well most player will agree (especially speed clearer) that more difficult content will be more than welcome. But player will always find way to make the run shorter, what you call ‘’been reduced to players using bad game mechanics(bad mob/boss mechanics and fgs stacking) to rush through dungeons’’ I call that using all the available tools to make the best and more efficient run you can possibly do. I enjoy doing that and i know i’m not alone. You can dislike it, but don’t be condescending about it. Anet can toss everything they can at the players, eventually they will find a way to speed clear through it and its not a bad things, its something that some people like to do.

I would love more difficult content, they can ’’fix’’ FGS, they can fix the unbalance between Direct Damage, Support and Condition Damage, they can fix mobs intelligence, they can do everything they can. Speed Clear will still exist and people will still see these video and think kitten this content is so freaking easy, that need to be fix.

I challenge you sooo much to run on a Glass Canon Elementalist with me and tell me if this is ‘’just so freaking easy with FGS rush that need no skill’’. That would be fun. I had such a good time trying to figure out how to play that one, so hard at the beginning lol. I had a great (and frustrating) time.

I just did a dungeon run at level 47. It was a casual run with random players, none who were level 80. I am a condition warrior :P

We died sometimes but for the most part, we had a ton of fun just playing through the dungeon and discussing how to take on each boss and laughing when someone made a deadly mistake.

I know that my way is not the fastest or the most rewarding, income-wise, but I play for fun so it does bother me. I love hearing people thank me for not kicking them or for reviving them when they mess up.

I have nothing against “Zerker only”groups because I just don’t join them. I will however take in all of those players who does not want to be part of the zerker groups.

We may not be the fastest and we may not win all of the time, but we always have fun

Thaddeus.4891:

Two things here. You need more skill and knowledge if you gonna play full DPS. You need to know what to do in each encounter to survive because if you just stand there you gonna die. Not everybody should go full DPS and usually a couple of knight pieces of armor will make you a better player. Because its true a dead DPS is no dps. If you can have the biggest DPS and stay alive then good for you. But don’t stay full DPS if you can’t stay up.

Also, what the guys said is partially right. Some strategy only work if the party does enough DPS. If the party don’t do enough DPS, full DPS player will die even if they are freaking good. The point where the guys was wrong is to put that on the other member of the party. It was his job to figure out that the party didn’t had enough DPS and he should had use another strategy. Full DPS only work if you know what you do and have the skill to back up your lack of defense.

Last time I heard an argument like that I was trying to teach people how to fight Teq.
Now without trying to argue with you, even because at the core of it we are on the same page, I’ll say it again.

Full DPS doesn’t work.

Now you think I’m crazy, I’m not.
These full zerker Warrior runs rely on overpowering CoF, a level 75 dungeon designed to be doable by level 75 players on Masterwork gear.
So they rely on basically, like the OP admited, kill the enemy before he has time to deal any damage and for that they all need to be in full zerker heavily dependant of one another and unable to sustain a fight if it lasts too long.
This content was never intended to be played like this, so the enemies were never balanced to deal with the over the top damage of a party like that can do.
If Anet ever introduced the so cried for “hardmode” this strategy would fall short because as is they (the players) can already drop very quickly if anything goes wrong because they have no survivability.
And the ones that are clever enough not to drop just pull away and deal no damage because lets face it, a rifle or longbow doesn’t have pretty enough numbers for them to even consider, and so it starts the pointing the finger game to assign the blame.

So again, in short, full zerker doesn’t work because it relies heavily on overpowering content.
I’ll leave the challenge for anyone reading this, if you are in full zerker and you think you’re great, come with me to solo some champs and lets see which one of us can get further.

Now to your point again, “Full DPS only work if you know what you do and have the skill to back up your lack of defense” that’s not always true, you can only blind dodge and block so many times.
In places of the game you’ll need to take a hit or have someone taking one for you, doesn’t matter how skilled you are, sometimes you can’t run for ever and full zerker set will only take you so far.

This the the by-product of non trinity games.

DPS is the only stat that matters in this game and the change to zerker will do nothing but require zerker even more.

How does an across the board nerf to the entire games population via crit damage promote other gear sets / specs?

It doesn’t. What it does is make things take longer to kill overall thus the desire for zerker will be even greater.

Zerker will go from wanted to required if this goes live.

The Zerk only group are quite frankly, full of themselves IMO. There are to many variables in play to have people thinking that only 1 set of gear works best. Such as Guardians using the Toughness to Prec. trait line. Where in my experiences when using knight gear, it does better DPS than Zerk. Critting more often!. I am sure its probably like that with many other builds. Also, I find it funny when Zerk players always think there build is best and they will last longer than others in fight. But usually they are the ones, that the Non Zerks are picking up off the ground. Especially evident in current LA event. If you want to ZERK fine thats your choice, but when every dungeon group is Zerk only and people boot just because they are not zerk geared, becomes a bit ridiculous. Its that kind of thinking that is wrong with LFG system. The closed mindedness of thinking only one gear set or build is viable for a speed run only shows your limited ability to play game efficiently. Its also that thinking that has made most believe there is no “support” build.