Guild Wars 2

Discussions regarding the lack of build diversity have been going on around for quite a while.

Many comparisons have been made with Gw1 builds vs Gw2 builds.

Now what I would like to point out is that I don’t agree that there is a lack of diversity regarding possible builds on Gw2. Maybe there could be more skills to use and maybe more traits but the real issue is the lack of builds that can be Optimal.

What I mean by optimal is simple. Finish the dungeons as quick as possible.

As I recall in Gw1, many different strategies (build and team composition) were yielding almost the same result in term of efficiency. Hence players could actually chose which composition they would prefer and be as efficient as the other composition. (This also opens up something called theorycrafting and I know lot’s of people that played Gw1 that miss this aspect)

Now in Gw2, the real problem is that in term of being Optimal the only viable thing would be DPS (kill as quick as possible without being killed first). Now the gear that offer the highest DPS would be Berserkers and Assassins. Now the second criteria toward the best DPS would be : which class does offer the best DPS. And then you have things like zerk warrior only in LFG.

And for sure, some players do not like it. They would like to play their gear and be as efficient.

Now, how would it be possible to be optimal in dungeons without being restricted to Berserker/Assassins gear?

edit: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

Just give up on PvE, Anet did.

But, I did not buy Gw2 for WvW, PvP. I bought it for PvE. And right now PvE is in such a state that some would think like you that Anet gave up on PvE.

Now what are the reasons? What I wrote above would be one of them I guess. But the solutions?

The thing is, there will always be an optimal way to play based on the mechanics presented.

IMO, the aim should be rather than having multiple optimal compositions for a single fight (although this would be nice) is to have mechanics throughout the entire game that utilise every tool players have, and multiple complimentary mechanics for each fight so all players don’t have the same job.

For example on individual mechanics:

• players have stacking, so a mechanic should exist where stacking will yield better results (for example, a mechanic where the damage from an AoE is divided by players).

• In contrast to this, there should also be a mechanic that punishes inappropriate stacking (for example, an AoE that multiplies in damage based on how many people it hits, or maybe a destructible platform that the boss can take chunks out of if people stack for a period of time [say, 5 seconds]).

• Players have Immobilise, so a mechanic that makes the encounter easier the more they’re immobilized (for example, a buff that stacks the more the boss moves).

• Players have Boon Stripping / Boon Corruption, so a mechanic that encourages this (for example, increased damage and damage reduction based on how many boons the boss has on).

Also, these sorts of things shouldn’t be limited to bosses. Make the trash more interesting as well:

• Create a number of group compositions that work well together. Each new dungeon then will have groups of mobs spawn randomly out of these group compositions.

• Make these groups mobile. Don’t have them standing around (unless appropriate).

• Remove mob leashing. Seriously, if someone broke into my lair and my henchmen only chased them a certain way before giving up, I’d be handing them their pink slips before feeding them to the sharks with frikking laser beams on their heads.

Another thing which I have no idea if it would be possible to implement is dungeon mobs and bosses that learn; a dungeon will take a metric for a week on gear, traits ect and adjust tactics accordingly.

For example, if a dungeon has a high % of people using berserker gear, stacking, and skipping mobs:

• the mobs will gain tools to hinder people running past (say, Line of Warding)
• the boss will gain a faster auto-attack, traits and skills that help reduce damage and a move that knocks players away from each other, stripping boons depending on how many people it hits.

In short; design mobs like players. Give them a set of mechanics and builds, and have them adapt to how players run a dungeon.

For me, this is where the ‘depth’ comes from; encouraging players to look at the tools at hand, adapting and making meaningful choices based on the mechanics presented.

The solution is simple.
Make the content actually hard.
Remove the infinite health bars.

My first experience in which I leveled up my main was the most enjoyable.
Party would stall constantly with our mediocre gear and some bosses felt impossible to defeat. We even changed skills and strategies in different scenarios. But the sense of achievement was great when we completed them.
And it sort of felt like crawling down a dungeon; like it’s supposed to be.

Right now? Right now you enter the dungeon skipping all the content with people who yell OMG COME STACK U NOOB at the whirlwind boss in AC.
Everything can be resumed to stacking in the same place, mashing all buttons because it doesn’t really matter when to do what.
Comparing that to the play I get in wvw revolving in timing the skills, playing with blocks, evades, retaliation, blinds, burst, condition cleansing, stability…

I’m not surprised I quit playing pve altogether.

It’s laughable how little has been added to this game since release in terms of content with substance and actual depth.

I’d love to see more utilites, elites, and weapon sets for each class so that we can actually change things up for once, but Colin promised that last year before the end of 2013 and here we are now…

Flytrap.8075:

I’d love to see more utilites, elites, and weapon sets for each class so that we can actually change things up for once, but Colin promised that last year before the end of 2013 and here we are now…

You mean this “promise” where it says:

As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.

It always amuses me how people can take a statement of intention as a promise.

That being said, I’d argue we need content that utilizes more of the current traits and skills more than we need new skills and traits.

TheDaiBish.9735:

It always amuses me how people can take a statement of intention as a promise.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

July 2013:
“We’re a little over halfway through the year, and we felt it was time to give you an update on where we stand, where we’re going, and discuss in more detail some of the systems you’ll see in the second half of 2013.

We’ll begin regularly adding new skills and traits to the game for each profession to expand your characters and builds! You will be able to earn these new traits and skills by unlocking them. To go along with this, we’ll expand the content and options to earn skill points to help encourage players to experience different challenges and content throughout the world. These skills and traits will be designed to be balanced with the existing skills/traits we currently have in the game, and will simply compliment and expand the range of abilities and tactics available to each profession. Both WvW and PvE players can acquire skills and traits, and additional means of earning skill points will be addressed for both core content areas.

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well. As these additional skills and traits are added, they’ll be automatically unlocked and available for competitive PvP just like all existing skills/traits work today."

Pretty bold statements (wow, I’m so punny).

Flytrap.8075:

TheDaiBish.9735:

It always amuses me how people can take a statement of intention as a promise.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

July 2013:
“We’re a little over halfway through the year, and we felt it was time to give you an update on where we stand, where we’re going, and discuss in more detail some of the systems you’ll see in the second half of 2013.

We’ll begin regularly adding new skills and traits to the game for each profession to expand your characters and builds! You will be able to earn these new traits and skills by unlocking them. To go along with this, we’ll expand the content and options to earn skill points to help encourage players to experience different challenges and content throughout the world. These skills and traits will be designed to be balanced with the existing skills/traits we currently have in the game, and will simply compliment and expand the range of abilities and tactics available to each profession. Both WvW and PvE players can acquire skills and traits, and additional means of earning skill points will be addressed for both core content areas.

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well. As these additional skills and traits are added, they’ll be automatically unlocked and available for competitive PvP just like all existing skills/traits work today."

Pretty bold statements (wow, I’m so punny).

And yet that footnote you left out still stands.

Not saying that new skills and such shouldn’t be added, but we need content that utilities them skills before (or alongside) the skills themselves, otherwise they’ll get the same reaction as we did with the heals they put in.

I agree with the points TheDaiBish and Pleurodesed bring up. If DPS is the only thing that matters, fights get boring fast. With GW2’s combat system, I don’t know if they can make a significant change so that there’s more involved than just burning down the health bar. They could certainly make it so that Control/Support/Utility (non-damage) Conditions have more of a place in fights. But I would personally like to see different mechanics for some dungeons, such as the turrets in Tequatl or the environmental tools in Great Jungle Wurm.

After the megaserver implementation, those two fights have >90% fail rate because they require more than just DPS. Yet they’re not impossible, since organized groups can regularly succeed. Of course, not every dungeon can be modified to be like Teq/GJW and in the end, there’s going to be easier ones. So rate those dungeons lower (in terms of difficulty) and nerf their rewards. Make tougher, more involved dungeons better for gold, drops, and tokens. Ultimately, the community will do their calculations and decide whether or not completing an easy dungeon multiple times is more efficient than doing a harder one a few times. ANet would have to make sure that it’s not.

TheDaiBish.9735:

And yet that footnote you left out still stands.

That’s fine, I guess there’s always next year

I really wish enemy mobs had skill bars like the players do, and that they could actively dodge attacks etc. I also wish that bosses had elite skills like the players.

P.S.

Please make my mace/shield warrior useful in PVE… is no fun having to burn through all my CD to take defiant stacks off a mob, and then have some team mate who is spamming attacks cause it to put all those defiant stacks back on…

Boss design.
When one of your team mates stand in the fire and dies, the boss lose 25% of his hp. Sacrifice 4 members and done. See? You don’t have to dps. So much fun and tactics.

Mesmer = Not always taken for pure DPS
Thief = nice stealthy skips (also v good DPS to boot)
Guard = condi removal, stability, aegis

xallever.1874:

Mesmer = Not always taken for pure DPS
Thief = nice stealthy skips (also v good DPS to boot)
Guard = condi removal, stability, aegis

Necro?

xallever.1874:

Mesmer = Not always taken for pure DPS
Thief = nice stealthy skips (also v good DPS to boot)
Guard = condi removal, stability, aegis

Yet they all run zerker.

Got it.

Flytrap.8075:

xallever.1874:

Mesmer = Not always taken for pure DPS
Thief = nice stealthy skips (also v good DPS to boot)
Guard = condi removal, stability, aegis

Yet they all run zerker.

Got it.

The static Zerker meta is so much more fun than the shifting GW1 meta.

Flytrap.8075:

xallever.1874:

Mesmer = Not always taken for pure DPS
Thief = nice stealthy skips (also v good DPS to boot)
Guard = condi removal, stability, aegis

Yet they all run zerker.

Got it.

So…?

Utility is irrelevant to the gear and why is this bad?

This way, it doesn’t matter what gears the Mesmers run in WvW their Mass Invis and Time Warp remain to be excellent utilities.

Since this post is more about dungeons than real diversity I will comment on that part of it. The problem with dungeons is the SPEED clears and getting to the end/shines as fast as possible without doing the middle bits as intended.

Perhaps what anet should do is reward players for going out of their way and doing more of the content in between the start and end. Let’s say you kill the mobs between the start and end. If done you get MORE added to the reward chest. Those “dynamic” “randomly popping champs” same, deal.

With things like this adding more to rewards perhaps more diverse builds could be wanted/needed because there may/could be events or new ones added that may require other things that other builds/classes can provide.

xallever.1874:

So…?

Utility is irrelevant to the gear and why is this bad?

This way, it doesn’t matter what gears the Mesmers run in WvW their Mass Invis and Time Warp remain to be excellent utilities.

So you’re arguing that Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers are super popular in high-end PvE because they have enough latent utility that they can abuse the stagnant DPS meta?

I agree.

Paulytnz.7619:

Since this post is more about dungeons than real diversity I will comment on that part of it. The problem with dungeons is the SPEED clears and getting to the end/shines as fast as possible without doing the middle bits as intended.

Perhaps what anet should do is reward players for going out of their way and doing more of the content in between the start and end. Let’s say you kill the mobs between the start and end. If done you get MORE added to the reward chest. Those “dynamic” “randomly popping champs” same, deal.

With things like this adding more to rewards perhaps more diverse builds could be wanted/needed because they may/could be events or new ones added that may require other things that other builds/classes can provide.

That will not affect speed clears.

Speed clear records will continue to skip chests and all possible trash mobs.

Casual speed clears will clear all the good trash mobs like in CoE as fast as possible.

If you add more worthy trash mobs, the aim is still to finish the dungeon as soon as possible in a good reward vs time manner. If that includes adding another 10-20 seconds clearing worthy trash mobs, then it’ll be the same as before, except you add 10-20 more seconds.

I honestly don’t mind a dungeon like COE to be full of those trash mobs. I can’t complain for more easy money drops.

Flytrap.8075:

xallever.1874:

So…?

Utility is irrelevant to the gear and why is this bad?

This way, it doesn’t matter what gears the Mesmers run in WvW their Mass Invis and Time Warp remain to be excellent utilities.

So you’re arguing that Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers are super popular in high-end PvE because they have enough latent utility that they can abuse the stagnant DPS meta?

I agree.

Good.

Except I don’t use the word ‘abuse’.

Zepidel.5349:

Just give up on PvE, Anet did.

The funny thing is that PvE is viewed as ANet’s favorite child.

What does that say about the rest of the game?

Dalanor.5387:

Boss design.
When one of your team mates stand in the fire and dies, the boss lose 25% of his hp. Sacrifice 4 members and done. See? You don’t have to dps. So much fun and tactics.

That would so destroy the all heavies meta.

I don’t think anyone would like that at all.

But I like my zerk warr. 40k hundred blades= GG

stayBlind.7849:

Flytrap.8075:

xallever.1874:

Mesmer = Not always taken for pure DPS
Thief = nice stealthy skips (also v good DPS to boot)
Guard = condi removal, stability, aegis

Yet they all run zerker.

Got it.

The static Zerker meta is so much more fun than the shifting GW1 meta.

I would call the police if someone holds a gun to your head and force you to only wear berserker.

Dalanor.5387:

I would call the police if someone holds a gun to your head and force you to only wear berserker.

So you’re saying that someone should call the police if they get kicked from a Fractal Group?

Good advice.

I understand that diversity in builds and ways to complete dungeons will mainly arise if the said so dungeon become more complex (not necessarily more difficult).

But I still think that even though some routes can become more complex and may need different strategies, it will still be a dps festival. And that is because mobs are stupid.

Maybe, there is more to just the problem of boss AI.

I mean, if dungeons in PvE would become harder and more complex and mob would actually have some form of AI, then it would maybe yield more diversity in terms of how to complete the dungeons.

But now, if I can complete the now harder dungeon in full PVT and it takes me an hour vs if I choose zerk and it takes me 10 minutes to get the same reward. Then I would go for the most efficient way. And yet, we would be again at the stade of ‘’I need max dps to be as efficient as possible’‘, instead of ’’I need to use this tactic in order to be more efficient’’.

I don’t know about pve build diversity but if you play tPvP(solo/teamQ) you will see that ~90% of players use the single meta build of their class. There’s no creativity about builds because there isn’t enough traits, and many of existing ones are unbalanced. One build or trait combination becomes op and every player starts to use it. They just copy and paste it without developing new playstyles/techniques. For an example, all warriors were using the same hambow+regen build for months.

Umut.5471:

I don’t know about pve build diversity but if you play tPvP(solo/teamQ) you will see that ~90% of players use the single meta build of their class. There’s no creativity about builds because there isn’t enough traits, and many of existing ones are unbalanced. One build or trait combination becomes op and every player starts to use it. They just copy and paste it without developing new playstyles/techniques. For an example, all warriors were using the same hambow+regen build for months.

There’s only so much you can do with such a limited skill and weapon pool.

In my opinion, ANet gave us way too many ways to mess around with our stat values and not enough ways to customize our action bar.

Making players wear vitality seems pointless. It will just slow down runs. If you still expect the best players to use full dps then surely aren’t most players with optimum builds and trusted tactics already at that level?

There are 4 damage stats and one of those, condition damage is generally ruled out by PvE condition caps. So that’s the first thing that has to change. If some weapon skills were then changed to give conditions on crits rather than extra direct damage, maybe precision/condition would become more interesting. The hybrid damage/condition weapons are unpopular at the moment as hybrid builds don’t exist.

Flytrap.8075:

Dalanor.5387:

I would call the police if someone holds a gun to your head and force you to only wear berserker.

So you’re saying that someone should call the police if they get kicked from a Fractal Group?

Good advice.

Nice strawman.

Teon.5168:

Flytrap.8075:

Dalanor.5387:

I would call the police if someone holds a gun to your head and force you to only wear berserker.

So you’re saying that someone should call the police if they get kicked from a Fractal Group?

Good advice.

Nice strawman.

Sometimes it takes a strawman to counter a strawman.

At least my point still stands: getting kicked from your group for not running zerker is a real thing. A metaphorical gun to your head, if you will

Make your own group with your own rules. If you punish yourself with wearing non-zerker armor and then join to a zerker group thats your problem. It’s like shooting yourself in the foot and cry all day that it’s hurt. Oo

Dalanor.5387:

Make your own group with your own rules. If you punish yourself with wearing non-zerker armor and then join to a zerker group thats your problem. It’s like shooting yourself in the foot and cry all day that it’s hurt. Oo

What’s with you and gun references?

Regardless, people have been complaining about the stale meta throughout all game-modes for a long time now and ANet hasn’t really done much to address it; the ferocity nerf was a laughable change that did nothing to fix the prevalence of zerker in PvE and made condition builds that were already thriving in WvW and sPvP even stronger.

Players shouldn’t have to work around the system to play a game that they enjoy.

Flytrap.8075:

Teon.5168:

Flytrap.8075:

Dalanor.5387:

I would call the police if someone holds a gun to your head and force you to only wear berserker.

So you’re saying that someone should call the police if they get kicked from a Fractal Group?

Good advice.

Nice strawman.

Sometimes it takes a strawman to counter a strawman.

At least my point still stands: getting kicked from your group for not running zerker is a real thing. A metaphorical gun to your head, if you will

You might see it that way, but I don’t.

When the guild I belong to does dungeon runs every Saturday, they don’t care what builds/experience and/or skill level shows up.

I don’t think I would want to run with dungeon pugs that kick a person for lack of a certain build, so no, it’s not even a metaphorical gun to my head.

And, ‘sometimes it takes a strawman to counter a strawman?’ Seriously? No offense meant, but that doesn’t make any logical sense.

Teon.5168:

Flytrap.8075:

Teon.5168:

Flytrap.8075:

Dalanor.5387:

I would call the police if someone holds a gun to your head and force you to only wear berserker.

So you’re saying that someone should call the police if they get kicked from a Fractal Group?

Good advice.

Nice strawman.

Sometimes it takes a strawman to counter a strawman.

At least my point still stands: getting kicked from your group for not running zerker is a real thing. A metaphorical gun to your head, if you will

You might see it that way, but I don’t.

When the guild I belong to does dungeon runs every Saturday, they don’t care what builds/experience and/or skill level shows up.

I don’t think I would want to run with dungeon pugs that kick a person for lack of a certain build, so no, it’s not even a metaphorical gun to my head.

The “gun to your head” part was referring to Dalanor’s post.

Anyway, not everyone has a guild that they can run Fractals and Dungeons with; sometimes you just have to pug.

P.S. – With all due respect, I don’t think you know what a strawman is.

Flytrap.8075:

P.S. – With all due respect, I don’t think you know what a strawman is.

LOL….I was just going to say the same to you in my previous post, but decided not to.

Again, then don’t pick pugs that want specific builds. Start your own pug, with your own rules…..bet you would get lots of responses.

Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the strawman point.

And fwiw, I do understand your point about pugs…..they can be awfully 1 dimensional at times…….

Expecting four random people on the internet to provide you with an experience that is exactly as you would prefer it strikes me as the height of insanity. And yet, that is exactly what I see being requested in thread, after thread, after thread. People keep insisting that various builds should be optimal. Ain’t gonna happen. Other MMO’s are full of builds that are not even viable in certain content, never mind optimal. At least in this game, more builds are viable.

Flytrap.8075:

Players shouldn’t have to work around the system to play a game that they enjoy.

If you are unable to make a non-zerker build by yourself, because theorycrafters prefer to work on zerker builds, thats your problem again.
Non-zerker is absolutely viable, don’t be so narrow minded.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Other MMO’s are full of builds that are not even viable in certain content, never mind optimal. At least in this game, more builds are viable.

I can speak only about WoW. 2 minutes of Google work wasn’t hard there. It shouldn’t be hard here neither.

Dalanor.5387:

Flytrap.8075:

Players shouldn’t have to work around the system to play a game that they enjoy.

If you are unable to make a non-zerker build by yourself, because theorycrafters prefer to work on zerker builds, thats your problem again.
Non-zerker is absolutely viable, don’t be so narrow minded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

IndigoSundown.5419:

Other MMO’s are full of builds that are not even viable in certain content, never mind optimal. At least in this game, more builds are viable.

I can speak only about WoW. 2 minutes of Google work wasn’t hard there. It shouldn’t be hard here neither.

#truth

Unviable = DPS check (x mob must be killed before y time)

Where is that in this game where you will be instantly wiped for not killing fast enough?

How is WoW not a DPS race in PvE content?

You use one off-tank only if it’s necessary, otherwise people prefer to have only one tank.

In other words: minimum support + as much DPS as possible.

Such difference!!!

Let me give an example.

FoW (gw1)

Different strategies: DervWay, MesWay, 100b etc.

Now, many classes were able to do the solo parts in Fow. (Assassins, Ranger, War, Mes)

And each of these strategies were in the Meta. (optimal)

Archeage’s skill system Anet should be using or something rather similar.

Dalanor.5387:

Flytrap.8075:

Players shouldn’t have to work around the system to play a game that they enjoy.

If you are unable to make a non-zerker build by yourself, because theorycrafters prefer to work on zerker builds, thats your problem again.
Non-zerker is absolutely viable, don’t be so narrow minded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

IndigoSundown.5419:

Other MMO’s are full of builds that are not even viable in certain content, never mind optimal. At least in this game, more builds are viable.

I can speak only about WoW. 2 minutes of Google work wasn’t hard there. It shouldn’t be hard here neither.

With all due respect, citing those videos as “evidence” of build diversity is actually spitting on those who choose to play with whatever gear. For instance, one of the videos had the footnote: “no skillful play involved.” It’s atrocious to imply that non-“zerker” build users don’t dodge and aren’t skillful, and that you can only be “skilled” if you follow the speed clear meta. So while you are pretending to say it’s OK to use whatever gear (which I agree with, as well as with people starting their groups with like-minded fellows), you DO think that using other than the “optimal” setup is shooting yourself in the foot, as aforementioned. In short, those videos MOCK non-optimal setups by going full defensive mode as well as “just 1” and not dodging-you lot could make your point way less offensively without such ludicrous videos that aren’t representative in the least of how “normal” (meaning in this context “non-optimal”) players play the game.

Star Ace.5207:

Dalanor.5387:

Flytrap.8075:

Players shouldn’t have to work around the system to play a game that they enjoy.

If you are unable to make a non-zerker build by yourself, because theorycrafters prefer to work on zerker builds, thats your problem again.
Non-zerker is absolutely viable, don’t be so narrow minded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

IndigoSundown.5419:

Other MMO’s are full of builds that are not even viable in certain content, never mind optimal. At least in this game, more builds are viable.

I can speak only about WoW. 2 minutes of Google work wasn’t hard there. It shouldn’t be hard here neither.

With all due respect, citing those videos as “evidence” of build diversity is actually spitting on those who choose to play with whatever gear. For instance, one of the videos had the footnote: “no skillful play involved.” It’s atrocious to imply that non-“zerker” build users don’t dodge and aren’t skillful, and that you can only be “skilled” if you follow the speed clear meta. So while you are pretending to say it’s OK to use whatever gear (which I agree with, as well as with people starting their groups with like-minded fellows), you DO think that using other than the “optimal” setup is shooting yourself in the foot, as aforementioned. In short, those videos MOCK non-optimal setups by going full defensive mode as well as “just 1” and not dodging-you lot could make your point way less offensively without such ludicrous videos that aren’t representative in the least of how “normal” (meaning in this context “non-optimal”) play the game.

Watch the video closely and don’t try to nitpick on every single word i say.
No skillfull play involved, because they literally unbound the dodge key and facetanked everything. Of course the average pug can’t grasp the mechanics those guys used to prevent instawipe in their beloved “playhowiwant” groups. Or protection is now exploit too, i wouldn’t be surprised.
If you take evidence so offensively i have nothing to say you. Have a nice day.

A R W E N.6895:

What I mean by optimal is simple. Finish the dungeons as quick as possible.
…
Now, how would it be possible to be optimal in dungeons without being restricted to Berserker/Assassins gear?

By definition, only one solution to a problem can be ‘optimal’, unless the problem is so trivial that all solutions are equally good. If you are asking for the latter, you would be asking for dungeons where every mix of stats was, in effect, irrelevant. Where is the fun in that?

• Decrease enemies’ HP, so any dmg dealt to them can be relevant. + ads
• Add more enemies so they support eachother + put pressure on the party.

Maybe start this by re-visiting some GW1 dungeons where TEAM structure did count, not their gear.
eg.

• The Deep → constant pressure on the team
• Fissure of Woe → ambush like spawning enemies, escort & defense events
• Slaver’s Exile → bring Frozen Soil, or suffer the consequences
• Domain of Anguish → pain and gain
  → all of these had to be restarted if failed… respawning in dungeons is just… not a challenge. Ranged resurrection utilities from dead (NOT DOWNED) could enhance this game mode.

All current GW2 dungeons are like "LFzerkers→enter→kill-until-win
This keeps me far from pve.

One exception : Aetherpath – Chance for precious unique skin is also a lovely GW1 feature

I wish I could enjoy aetherpath as much as you do. My framerate runs unplyable even though I have an early generation of i7.

My friends and I are having fun duo/trio/quartet’ing dungeons. While we do use predominantly Berserker gear most of the time, we enjoy swapping weapons, traits, and skills all the time.

We’re pretty casual, so it’s possible dungeons could still be reduced to boring static stack-fests by hardcore players even down a few people, but I honestly wonder if the main problem might just be that dungeons are simply too easy for 5 people.

Lymain.6723:

but I honestly wonder if the main problem might just be that dungeons are simply too easy for 5 people.

LOL Dungeons were nerfed because they were too hard iirc. Heck so was the open world.