Guild Wars 2

TorsoReaper.8530:

Cristalyan.5728:

Do you remember the way Collin joked about the ginding/farming existing in other MMO’s?
" I killed a centaur! I killed a centaur again! …. Woaaaaa ! Look ! I killed another centaur!" Or it was “sword” instead of “centaur”? No matter :-))
Now look at Mike O’Brien’s own words in the GW2 Manifesto:
“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun
………………………………………………………………………………
Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”

And now, with this leather FARM Anet team considers that they followed the Manifesto. Moreover, they expect us to have fun from this?

This “challenging farming spot” is one of the most important proofs that the actual Anet team discarded the vision of the initial Manifesto. Or, because of so many changes in the team, it may be very possible the actual team is not even aware that such vision exists.

And you are still wondering why the playerbase get smaller and smaller?

The most worrying thing is that even if the old vision was discarded, a new declaration/statement/Manifesto was never released. In this moment, without a document stating the direction/goals/intentions, GW2 looks like a sail floating adrift. The efforts of the passengers (the players) to save the sail may be not enough as long as the crew do almost nothing in the right direction.

Back to the “challenging farming spot”: In a game with ample antifarming rules, going from diminished return to forcibly limiting the number of samples of certain materials you can receive daily, the idea of farming seems to be a way to mock the playerbase.

Why mocking? Because you can farm as long as Anet wants! Even this method to address the leather issue has a limited use. Limit left at Anet will under the form of DR.

And another evidence: The players complained about the very small quantity of T2 / T3 / T4 leather a lvl 80 player can get by playing the endgame. And for the limited quantity of T6 leather you can get – no matter what content you play. Anet solution: they invented the “challenging farming spot” – the output is more than 65% the T5 leather. Nobody complained about T5. Thanks Anet :-)). If the farming spot will be a successful idea, the game will be flooded with T5 leather.

We had this situation in the past. Because of the abundance of T5 Anet decided to reduce the input of all tiers leather. It may be possible that in few months Anet will decide that too much T5 leather is on the game, so they will reduce again the input of the T2/T3/T4/T6 leather :-))))

Very sad that Anet is going this way. I really really enjoyed Bitterfrost and then this patch comes out and it’s almost more lucrative to farm leather from the white mantle than the actual leather farm. There’s something clearly wrong with that. Anet, please, we want this game to start doing better. I’m sure you do to.

But as it stands, you’re making less money than Aion which came out in 2008. Clearly something is driving away customers. HOT was obviously one of those things, the vast majority of people hated HOT and the maps. You slowly start fixing it with newer, better maps, yet fail to address other glaring issues. The crafting issue, also adding to those things (just look at The Division population after the crafting nerf). People want to craft things like legendaries, that is part of your end game. When you make crafting so prohibitively expensive that people don’t want to do it anymore, you’re pushing people away from the end game and pushing people away from your own game.

For reference:
http://i.imgur.com/gMAmcve.png

Vast majority hated HoT? Source?

Making the old legendaries is no more expensive today than before HoT. The costs of the new ones are what you’d expect from brand new ones. Precursor was never stated to be cheaper than buying off the TP.

Ayrilana.1396:

Vast majority hated HoT? Source?

Making the old legendaries is no more expensive today than before HoT. The costs of the new ones are what you’d expect from brand new ones. Precursor was never stated to be cheaper than buying off the TP.

Pre- HOT revenues were about $20B KRW, post HOT revenues were $15B KRW and that’s with the base game going F2P and the box price swapping to HOT purchase. So you should have seen an increase in population and revenues and instead see a 25% decline in revenues. How do you interpret that?

Really we are going off on a tangent which Anet would love so they can lock this thread without ever addressing the real leather problem so with that being said, any further comments I make will only be related to the leather farm/problem itself or Anet’s lack of response/solution.

TorsoReaper.8530:

Ayrilana.1396:

Vast majority hated HoT? Source?

Making the old legendaries is no more expensive today than before HoT. The costs of the new ones are what you’d expect from brand new ones. Precursor was never stated to be cheaper than buying off the TP.

Pre- HOT revenues were about $20B KRW, post HOT revenues were $15B KRW and that’s with the base game going F2P and the box price swapping to HOT purchase. So you should have seen an increase in population and revenues and instead see a 25% decline in revenues. How do you interpret that?

Really we are going off on a tangent which Anet would love so they can lock this thread without ever addressing the real leather problem so with that being said, any further comments I make will only be related to the leather farm/problem itself or Anet’s lack of response/solution.

Most of the revenues come from gem store sales which is determined by there being something that someone doesn’t have and wants. You also have content droughts which all games experience. We went for like 9 months from the release of HoT before we got our next content release. We then go on what’s likely two months betweeen releases where players tend to exhaust the content within a week. It has more to do with a lack of reason to even log on than because of a hate for HoT. Did you check revenue trends prior to the release of HoT?

The leather farm is just one way for players to directly farm leather which is what they wanted. Could it have been made to provide all tiers equally? Sure.

Ayrilana.1396:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Ayrilana.1396:

Vast majority hated HoT? Source?

Making the old legendaries is no more expensive today than before HoT. The costs of the new ones are what you’d expect from brand new ones. Precursor was never stated to be cheaper than buying off the TP.

Pre- HOT revenues were about $20B KRW, post HOT revenues were $15B KRW and that’s with the base game going F2P and the box price swapping to HOT purchase. So you should have seen an increase in population and revenues and instead see a 25% decline in revenues. How do you interpret that?

Really we are going off on a tangent which Anet would love so they can lock this thread without ever addressing the real leather problem so with that being said, any further comments I make will only be related to the leather farm/problem itself or Anet’s lack of response/solution.

Most of the revenues come from gem store sales which is determined by there being something that someone doesn’t have and wants. You also have content droughts which all games experience. We went for like 9 months from the release of HoT before we got our next content release. We then go on what’s likely two months betweeen releases where players tend to exhaust the content within a week. It has more to do with a lack of reason to even log on than because of a hate for HoT. Did you check revenue trends prior to the release of HoT?

The leather farm is just one way for players to directly farm leather which is what they wanted. Could it have been made to provide all tiers equally? Sure.

90% of players on that website got Heart of Thorns, 75% progressed beyond Verdant Brink, 50% remained active when LS3 started, dropped to 20% with episode 2, and remains at 20% with episode 3.

Just right there should be an indicator something went massively awry. 25% of players went into Verdant Brink and said “screw this I’m out”. How long does it take to get to AB from VB? Like 20 minutes? Maybe 45 minutes give how crappy the maps are. So the expansion was so bad, a quarter of people permanently left the game after playing the expac for less than an hour. THAT IS TERRIBLE. We don’t have stats on how many people left after AB or DS but only 20% of people kept playing. 20%. 20%. 20%. That is a complete failure of an expansion and a failure of continued content. GW2 population was pretty healthy pre HOT. After HOT? not so much. People hated the direction Anet was going and left. 80% of people left. It’s not lack of content, it’s direction of content. Aion makes more money than GW2 kitten .

source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Having-a-look-at-GW2-long-term-results/page/4#post6427844

Manasa Devi.7958:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Maybe he meant ‘in the beginning’ of the leather shortage/change. I don’t know.

There was a leather deficiency at the beginning of the leather shortage? You really think there’s a chance he meant that?

The deficiency I am referring to isn’t in the volume of leather .. it was in the inability to get leather in a reliable manner outside of the TP .. like ore or logs. No one cared before because as we know, leather wasn’t really used much. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a deficiency that we couldn’t ‘gather’ leather like other mats. Regardless, this is the situation we are in now. If we want mats, you either buy them with gold or you farm them, either in focused content or bide your time and hope you get from random play. Anet made it clear there will be no intervention on the market through adjusting recipes and such.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Fremtid.3528:

Yes but if you sold the mats that you’d use to turn it into t6 and bought t6 you’d save money so it’s pointless.

Again, you people are missing the point here … if a person is purposefully going to farm leather there, their concern isn’t what the value of the drops are.

Seriously, do i have to repeat it every time? If you want to farm leather (directly), there are far better spots for this. Even on the same map. If something is designated as a leather farming spot by devs, it should be better for leather farming than other places. Not worse.

Yes, you do need to repeat it every time because you don’t define what you mean by ‘better’. Just saying it’s better doesn’t give me anything to discuss. It could mean many things. To someone playing the game that wants to farm leather, a dedicated area might be what makes that area better than what you suggest. Who am I to debate what makes something better for an individual? If you think farming elsewhere is ‘better’ for you, fill your boots; that’s simply an subjective measure.

Obtena.7952:

Yes, you do need to repeat it every time because you don’t define what you mean by ‘better’. Just saying it’s better doesn’t give me anything to discuss. It could mean many things. To someone playing the game that wants to farm leather, a dedicated area might be what makes that area better than what you suggest. Who am I to debate what makes something better for an individual? If you think farming elsewhere is ‘better’ for you, fill your boots; that’s simply an subjective measure.

We can quantify because we have auction house pricing. If prices go back to their pre-patch levels or higher, we can definitively say that people are not better off.

Problem: Leather is too expensive
Solution: Leather farm
Outcome: Higher or equal prices = failure, Lower prices = success

It seems to me that the only quantifiable way to say a farming spot is better or worse is to look at the rate you can gain the item in question per unit of time put in, and modify your results based on what else was obtained in the process. I’ve seen it quoted that the centaur area fails in this respect when compared to farming kills in any of the maps that drop magic warped leather – if such is true, then this is clearly a failed farm.

TorsoReaper.8530:

Obtena.7952:

Yes, you do need to repeat it every time because you don’t define what you mean by ‘better’. Just saying it’s better doesn’t give me anything to discuss. It could mean many things. To someone playing the game that wants to farm leather, a dedicated area might be what makes that area better than what you suggest. Who am I to debate what makes something better for an individual? If you think farming elsewhere is ‘better’ for you, fill your boots; that’s simply an subjective measure.

We can quantify because we have auction house pricing. If prices go back to their pre-patch levels or higher, we can definitively say that people are not better off.

Problem: Leather is too expensive
Solution: Leather farm
Outcome: Higher or equal prices = failure, Lower prices = success

Again, people that are going to do a leather farm are not thinking in terms of how much equivalent gold they make doing it. Their problem isn’t actually related to the price of leather .. it’s related to not having options other than the TP to get it. So qualify all you want, it’s not relevant to the kind of player who will take advantage of the leather farm in the first place. If you paid attention, according to Anet, the leather farm wasn’t intended to solve the “leather is too expensive” problem in the first place, so no, it’s not a failed farm because it doesn’t make leather cheaper.

TorsoReaper.8530:

Ayrilana.1396:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Ayrilana.1396:

Vast majority hated HoT? Source?

Making the old legendaries is no more expensive today than before HoT. The costs of the new ones are what you’d expect from brand new ones. Precursor was never stated to be cheaper than buying off the TP.

Pre- HOT revenues were about $20B KRW, post HOT revenues were $15B KRW and that’s with the base game going F2P and the box price swapping to HOT purchase. So you should have seen an increase in population and revenues and instead see a 25% decline in revenues. How do you interpret that?

Really we are going off on a tangent which Anet would love so they can lock this thread without ever addressing the real leather problem so with that being said, any further comments I make will only be related to the leather farm/problem itself or Anet’s lack of response/solution.

Most of the revenues come from gem store sales which is determined by there being something that someone doesn’t have and wants. You also have content droughts which all games experience. We went for like 9 months from the release of HoT before we got our next content release. We then go on what’s likely two months betweeen releases where players tend to exhaust the content within a week. It has more to do with a lack of reason to even log on than because of a hate for HoT. Did you check revenue trends prior to the release of HoT?

The leather farm is just one way for players to directly farm leather which is what they wanted. Could it have been made to provide all tiers equally? Sure.

90% of players on that website got Heart of Thorns, 75% progressed beyond Verdant Brink, 50% remained active when LS3 started, dropped to 20% with episode 2, and remains at 20% with episode 3.

Just right there should be an indicator something went massively awry. 25% of players went into Verdant Brink and said “screw this I’m out”. How long does it take to get to AB from VB? Like 20 minutes? Maybe 45 minutes give how crappy the maps are. So the expansion was so bad, a quarter of people permanently left the game after playing the expac for less than an hour. THAT IS TERRIBLE. We don’t have stats on how many people left after AB or DS but only 20% of people kept playing. 20%. 20%. 20%. That is a complete failure of an expansion and a failure of continued content. GW2 population was pretty healthy pre HOT. After HOT? not so much. People hated the direction Anet was going and left. 80% of people left. It’s not lack of content, it’s direction of content. Aion makes more money than GW2 kitten .

source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Having-a-look-at-GW2-long-term-results/page/4#post6427844

You’re misinterpreting the data and also using unstable data at that. You can’t really use currencies for this as they fluctuate depending on what you spend them on and you’re unlikely to earn more currency on a map if you have no further use for that currency.

There’s been no evidence to suggest that HoT has been any more harmful to the game that the content droughts. The leather farm isn’t any different than any other farm and is just another way for players to earn leather.

Not to mention the fact that just because a player doesn’t visit the Heart of Thorns original maps doesn’t mean they have left the game entirely.

How much of the population use that web-site, and of those that do use it, what demographic?

I truly doubt 80% of the population left because the expansion was released.

Players have been asking for a leather farm to farm leather for crafting. Sure they could have bought it off the TP and farm for gold instead but they specifically wanted to farm for leather the same way you could farm for wood and ore.

Simply the word that a leather farm was coming caused a correction in both T5 and T6 leather sections. There looked to be an attempt at a price correction for T1-4 when it dropped a week ago but that’s iffy at best. Of cloth or leather, I see a bigger shift in cloth which wasn’t a problem before. I chalk that up to all the unstable rags being dropped by raves of White Mantle, getting salvaged and resulting cloth getting dumped on the TP.

Obtena.7952:

Again, people that are going to do a leather farm are not thinking in terms of how much equivalent gold they make doing it. Their problem isn’t actually related to the price of leather .. it’s related to not having options other than the TP to get it. So qualify all you want, it’s not relevant to the kind of player who will take advantage of the leather farm in the first place. If you paid attention, according to Anet, the leather farm wasn’t intended to solve the “leather is too expensive” problem in the first place, so no, it’s not a failed farm because it doesn’t make leather cheaper.

I don’t think that’s entirely true. Leather is expensive because it is difficult to obtain in a timely and reliable way. If the leather farm being added doesn’t drop the price, you still can infer that the farm is not timely and reliable either. Plenty of the people doing leather farm ARE doing it to make money, you can’t assume otherwise and even if I go there trying to farm leather just to use, why would I do it if I could do basically the same thing in another map and make enough money to buy twice as much leather in the same amount of time.

If the farm isn’t worth the time it takes, it’s a failure. And you can determine that by price whether it’s because people farm to sell it or because people previously buying leather aren’t anymore and demand goes down which would also drop the price. Either way if the farm is successful, price will drop. And if it isnt, the price wont.

I’m not debating if it’s true or not … Anet told us with their own words why they introduced leather farm and it was related to the lack of options to obtain it. The cost is not the problem that Anet is addressing with the leather farming instance. The cost is just a function of supply and demand and there was never any claim that the leather farm would address it. If anything, I think prices will go up, but I’m not going to elaborate on why I think that.

If leather drops for the people that do the leather farm, it’s doing what it was intended to do. That’s not a failure. It’s not price related at all, because we already know that there are significantly more effective ways to earn more gold and purchase the leather you want than any reasonable farm could provide in the same time for the base mats themselves.

I mean, if your definition of successful farm is if it’s ‘worth the time’, then that would completely destroy all leather as a commodity worth trading, because ‘worth the time’ indicates to me, that it should yield as much leather from the farm as you could get earning gold and buying it in the same time.That’s the worst possible situation Anet could create. Leather would cease to be worth trading as a commodity.

Obtena.7952:

I’m not debating if it’s true or not … Anet told us with their own words why they introduced leather farm and it was related to the lack of options to obtain it. The cost is not the problem that Anet is addressing with the leather farming instance. The cost is just a function of supply and demand and there was never any claim that the leather farm would address it. If anything, I think prices will go up, but I’m not going to elaborate on why I think that.

If leather drops for the people that do the leather farm, it’s doing what it was intended to do. That’s not a failure. It’s not price related at all, because we already know that there are significantly more effective ways to earn more gold and purchase the leather you want than any reasonable farm could provide in the same time for the base mats themselves.

I mean, if your definition of successful farm is if it’s ‘worth the time’, then that would completely destroy all leather as a commodity worth trading, because ‘worth the time’ indicates to me, that it should yield as much leather from the farm as you could get earning gold and buying it in the same time.That’s the worst possible situation Anet could create. Leather would cease to be worth trading as a commodity.

The only way what you’re saying could possibly hold true is that all the people using the leather farm at the moment are also NOT using the TP at all to get leather. Because if they ARE using the TP to get leather and swap to farming it themselves, even if they farm it and do not sell it, that would reduce buying pressure and therefore reduce the price.

Why would anyone farming leather have buy orders on the TP? As you said and others … it’s not ‘worth the time’ to farm the leather, compared to just getting gold elsewhere and buying it off the TP. I mean, I can’t argue with that, so it makes sense to me that most farmers aren’t posting buy orders and most people on the TP aren’t farming.

Obtena.7952:

Why would anyone farming leather have buy orders on the TP? As you said and others … it’s not ‘worth the time’ to farm the leather, compared to just getting gold elsewhere and buying it off the TP. I mean, I can’t argue with that, so it makes sense to me that most farmers aren’t posting buy orders and most people on the TP aren’t farming.

As someone who is building a legendary and multiple sets of ascended armor, I’m on the TP all the time. When the leather farm came out, I farmed it for a couple days, realized it wasn’t worth it, and went back to the TP. The idea that some people refuse to use the TP is silly, so is the notion that people ONLY use the TP. It’s always a blend and that is my point.

If the farm was actually working, the people who could use the leather farm to satisfy their needs would no longer be on the TP and prices would fall. Instead we are seeing prices rise in conjunction with a lack of leather farm groups on LFG. This is exactly as many reasonable people on the forums predicted.

Predicting human behavior isn’t very hard as long as you’re willing to look at the world objectively.

You prove my point … you want to use the TP … so you don’t farm. if I want to farm, I’m not buying off the TP. I mean, this is really simple. What is worth more? You’re time or your gold? Very few people think those things have equal value, so I don’t think it’s too far off the mark to think that all the people using the leather farm at the moment are also NOT using the TP to get leather.

Sure there is SOME people blending, but I think you put too much weight on the percentage of people doing that. I stated why I believe this blending isn’t a thing … and you’re own statements are indicative of that belief.

LOL, i never said I don’t blend, I do SW and BF for my salvage and gold and also use TP

That’s nice … doesn’t change what I said … Some might blend, but I’m sure most don’t or lean heavily to one option or the other even if they do blend. Therefore, I think what I’m saying does hold true and I’m certain Anet isn’t lying to us about why they introduced leather farm.

Obtena.7952:

If leather drops for the people that do the leather farm, it’s doing what it was intended to do. That’s not a failure. It’s not price related at all, because we already know that there are significantly more effective ways to earn more gold and purchase the leather you want than any reasonable farm could provide in the same time for the base mats themselves.

Considering that a lot of people want T3-4 and T6 leather more than they want T5 leather, and that its more effective to skip the dedicated leather farm and just kill random mobs on the rest of the map to get T2-4 and T6 leather, then yes the farm is kind of a failure. If people aren’t using it because its inferior to content that was not even designed to farm leather, then I honestly don’t know how you can defend the farm.

Bottom line as a long time player, it is not Anet best moment.

I’m pretty sure almost everyone blends coz it doesn’t make sense if you need one mat to just farm it all the time if you’re a farmer and no one can afford to just buy everything all the time unless they’re a flipper or a goldbuyer.

I can’t stop laughing that Anet introduced an explicit leather farm that somehow failed completely at its one and only job.

Obtena.7952:

I’m not debating if it’s true or not … Anet told us with their own words why they introduced leather farm and it was related to the lack of options to obtain it. The cost is not the problem that Anet is addressing with the leather farming instance. The cost is just a function of supply and demand and there was never any claim that the leather farm would address it. If anything, I think prices will go up, but I’m not going to elaborate on why I think that.

If leather drops for the people that do the leather farm, it’s doing what it was intended to do. That’s not a failure. It’s not price related at all, because we already know that there are significantly more effective ways to earn more gold and purchase the leather you want than any reasonable farm could provide in the same time for the base mats themselves.

I mean, if your definition of successful farm is if it’s ‘worth the time’, then that would completely destroy all leather as a commodity worth trading, because ‘worth the time’ indicates to me, that it should yield as much leather from the farm as you could get earning gold and buying it in the same time.That’s the worst possible situation Anet could create. Leather would cease to be worth trading as a commodity.

Just because Anet wasnt specifically addressing the price does NOT mean that you cant determine its effectiveness by watching the price. I’m very aware that its a function of supply and demand, considering thats what my first post was saying. if supply increases and the demand decreases (which is what a successful leather farm would do whether you farm to sell or farm to use) the price will drop.

And I dont think a leather farm is reasonable I can run around maps for metal/wood/herb nodes of the specific level I want. I should be able to do that with cloth and leather. I consider it to be unreasonable to force you to farm mobs with a group just to get a single basic material of random level. Anet shouldn’t have made it a farm in the first place, especially not a group one. In my opinion once thats why its really a failure.

The in game market price of an item is directly related to the supply the game provides. So yes, a dedicated leather farm should decrease the cost of leather by increasing supply.

It’s been about a week since the farm was introduced and leather prices are going right back to what they were when people panicked and sold their surplus, meaning the supply from the farm is the same as before even with the burst of people doing the leather farm since it was new content. This means the leather farm drop rates are on par with the drop rates in other places of the game that already exist. Eventually fewer and fewer people will do the farm as more and more people catch on that the drop rates aren’t any better for what they are trying to get and go back to content that is easier.

As people go back to already existing content, fewer and fewer Leather Farm LFGs will start up. As fewer and fewer people do the leather farm, the leather farm will become increasingly more difficult if you can’t get into the one or two maps that are doing it (since it is group content, and incredibly brutal to solo players or even small parties) which will drive even more people away from the content. Ultimately this means (as new updates are released, drawing even more players away from the farm to go explore the new shiny) that the Leather farm will become deserted.

Thus, the leather farm was a failure. It failed to retain players because the drop rate was not worth the risk. It failed to provide an adequate supply of leather to those who need all tiers of leather other than T5 because the drop rate of kitten and T6 leather is abysmally low or on par with the other new zones and the unstable leather scraps. It failed to reduce leather prices by failing to increase supply and failing to drive down demand. It failed on every level a so-called ‘farm’ could fail on.
It isn’t engaging content, since its a farm, so really there is no reason this farm ever should have existed.

Ultimately the only fix to the leather problem (or any of the common material problems) is to fundamentally alter how leather is obtained. Skinning would do this, it would let you target specific level zones to farm the specific leather you need. It would get players back into old or dead zones in search of the yellow monsters that are largely ignored. It would solve the “I can’t farm for T’X’ leather reliably because I’m level ‘Y’” and the “I can’t farm for unstable leather in the new zones because I don’t have HoT” threads. The market would eventually stabilize (just like it has for Wood and Ore) at levels where players feel that the price is affordable to buy the leather as they up their leather crafting but not so low it isn’t worth being a leather farmer for any tier of leather. If prices got too low, then they just need to introduce new content with new recipes.

Also I wish Anet would just go back to the original crafting. 2 ore per bar, 2 leather per square, 2 wood per plank, 2 cloth per bolt no matter which tier you were on. It was simpler, making crafting easier to know what to expect with each tier, and fairer to each armor weight than the mess they made by altering the recipes. They never should have messed with any of that at all, especially because they tended to mess with that AND mess with drop rates at the same time.

Skinning should have been in the game from the beginning, I honestly don’t know why it wasn’t. I can only guess they didn’t want to ‘copy’ WoW… like a small game mechanic is copying a fundamental part of another game (It isn’t, especially since they had sickles for vegetables and axes for wood-WoW doesn’t even have wood last time I played and if they do now it was added after GW2 came out so they copied GW2). Or maybe they had issues converting a boars corpse into a harvesting node.

Here’s an idea I would like Anet to consider. Get rid of the salvageable hides or greatly reduce the rate from the loot tables of monsters and bags (replace it by doubling the salvageable cloth-I don’t mean the light armor pieces-dropped from humanoids and bags) and add skinning. This will probably help solve a lot of the headache that has gone on through the years concerning cloth and leather prices. Yes, it will be more similar to other games, but it will also mean that getting the fundamental material for the crafting professions will be a lot more reliable.

If you need leather, go kill some boar in the level range of the leather you need. Veterans can be more likely to drop a tier higher than the zone you are in (for example, veteran risen bulls would drop T5 with a high chance of T6 while regular risen bulls drop T5 with a low chance of T6). If you need cloth go kill bandits, flame legion, nightmare court, inquisition, sons of svanir in the level zone you need the cloth in. Again the veterans could be more likely to drop a tier higher than the tier for the zone. I suggest this because the salvageable cloth scraps you get from zones and bags are not linked to your level, only the armor drops are. So don’t touch the armor drop rates.

Yes, this will take more work. Yes it isn’t a quick fix like messing with recipes or adding a ‘farm’. Yes, you’ll probably have to introduce a new rag that is more likely to salvage into gossamer than silk. Yes, the market will be chaotic as it adjust to the changes. Yes, there will be programming to iron out to make the bodies of what you kill stick around long enough to skin if they don’t already.

Obtena.7952:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Maybe he meant ‘in the beginning’ of the leather shortage/change. I don’t know.

There was a leather deficiency at the beginning of the leather shortage? You really think there’s a chance he meant that?

The deficiency I am referring to isn’t in the volume of leather .. it was in the inability to get leather in a reliable manner outside of the TP .. like ore or logs.

And, again, this farm doesn’t affect that deficiency at all. Remember, that it wasn’t a problem for t5. Only for other tiers (with the special mention of t6).

Obtena.7952:

No one cared before because as we know, leather wasn’t really used much. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a deficiency that we couldn’t ‘gather’ leather like other mats.

And we still can’t.

Obtena.7952:

Yes, you do need to repeat it every time because you don’t define what you mean by ‘better’.

Unstable hides, which you get by simply killing white mantle mobs, are a far better source of leather – because they supply all the tiers.

Obtena.7952:

To someone playing the game that wants to farm leather, a dedicated area might be what makes that area better than what you suggest.

Sure. But when that “farming area” doesn’t supply what you want to farm, it’s useless.
And as for “dedicated farming area” for t5 leather… well, any place where you can kill a lot of normal mobs is as good or better. Old style generic farms (like in Cursed Shore), would not only be better for leather, but also offer other loot on top of that.
Sorry, no matter how you look at it, this farm is a design failure.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Yes, you do need to repeat it every time because you don’t define what you mean by ‘better’.

Unstable hides, which you get by simply killing white mantle mobs, are a far better source of leather – because they supply all the tiers.

So the rest of the map (and also Bloodstone Fen) is a better leather farm than the centaur area.

Obtena.7952:

Yes, you do need to repeat it every time because you don’t define what you mean by ‘better’. Just saying it’s better doesn’t give me anything to discuss. It could mean many things. To someone playing the game that wants to farm leather, a dedicated area might be what makes that area better than what you suggest. Who am I to debate what makes something better for an individual? If you think farming elsewhere is ‘better’ for you, fill your boots; that’s simply an subjective measure.

Pifil.5193:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Yes, you do need to repeat it every time because you don’t define what you mean by ‘better’.

Unstable hides, which you get by simply killing white mantle mobs, are a far better source of leather – because they supply all the tiers.

So the rest of the map (and also Bloodstone Fen) is a better leather farm than the centaur area.

Yes. It’s quite ironic, actually.

Astralporing.1957:

. Old style generic farms (like in Cursed Shore), would not only be better for leather, but also offer other loot on top of that.

This is exactly what I told my guildies the day the leather farm came out. Even if the leather you get was equal, it’s way more worth it to farm elsewhere and get so many other mats on top of it. Even if you got as much leather as all those other mats combined (since that would just result in the leather market plummeting) it would still be a bad farm since it just wouldn’t last long.

Ayrilana.1396:

There’s been no evidence to suggest that HoT has been any more harmful to the game that the content droughts.

I hope not, content should not be more harmful than no-content…

Here’s the thing, not all leather gathered end up on the TP. A lot of players who asked for a leather farm wanting it for personal use, not as a farm for gold.

Also we don’t see and I don’t think anybody charts it is the amount actually traded on the TP over time. The price could remain stable if players are purchasing it as fast as it’s being added to the TP, keeping supply on the TP relatively constant.

Behellagh.1468:

Here’s the thing, not all leather gathered end up on the TP. A lot of players who asked for a leather farm wanting it for personal use, not as a farm for gold.

Also we don’t see and I don’t think anybody charts it is the amount actually traded on the TP over time. The price could remain stable if players are purchasing it as fast as it’s being added to the TP, keeping supply on the TP relatively constant.

gw2spidy.com shows buy and sell listing volume.

So on the 27th of Jan they announce an upcoming “leather farm”. Immediately you see leather sales volumes increase and leather buy volumes decrease. We are now at the point where sales volumes are decreasing and buy volumes increasing. Again reinforcing the fact that the leather farm is a complete failure.

I just did the ‘leather farm’ a couple of times (my first times), and I thought it was fun enough. Lots of leather packets (can’t remember the name) and plenty of Champion Bags, as well. Not to mention the other drops.

If players don’t like the ‘leather’ part of the farm, maybe they will go for the Champion Bags; it takes less than 10 minutes or so to do the circuit.

My favorite part of this thread is that it has more views and posts than the actual feedback thread for E4 and yet not a single red post addressing anything. LOL.

Behellagh.1468:

Here’s the thing, not all leather gathered end up on the TP. A lot of players who asked for a leather farm wanting it for personal use, not as a farm for gold.

Less leather being added to the TP because of people farming for their own use, would mean less leather being bought from the TP, so a lower demand and a price drop. And its still a fact that many people doing the leather farm ARE selling it regardless of if they were who asked for it or not.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If players don’t like the ‘leather’ part of the farm, maybe they will go for the Champion Bags; it takes less than 10 minutes or so to do the circuit.

Dont the champ bags just drop more leather? When i opened mine all it gave me was more bloodstone hides.

I too was disappointed in the leather farm. Also I was surprised when the president of ANet announced that there would be a leather farm considering all the anti-farming philosophy and things like “diminishing returns” that are designed to make farming unsuccessful.

I did not like the map and the mob behavior; I was lucky to even be able to get the POI there to finish map completion on Lake Doric. Not something I will be doing in the future as I get plenty of T5 leather over all the other maps. As far as I can tell the Champ bags from the centaurs only have more leather in them and the salvage rates are 10:1; 10 T5 leather per 1 T6 leather which is no different than any other maps.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s 2017 and people are still misinterpreting the manifesto? The leather farm is not a deviation from it.

Funny thing is that so many players threw that idea out the window anyways when they realized that they had nothing to stroke their ego with to differentiate themselves from the plebs.

Yes, the grind is here because people wanted it.

Diminishing returns was done away with like 3 patches ago.

Thick leather, the biggest drop from the “leather farm”, is already back up to 1s 57c on the TP. good job anet, good job.

TorsoReaper.8530:

Behellagh.1468:

Here’s the thing, not all leather gathered end up on the TP. A lot of players who asked for a leather farm wanting it for personal use, not as a farm for gold.

Also we don’t see and I don’t think anybody charts it is the amount actually traded on the TP over time. The price could remain stable if players are purchasing it as fast as it’s being added to the TP, keeping supply on the TP relatively constant.

gw2spidy.com shows buy and sell listing volume.

So on the 27th of Jan they announce an upcoming “leather farm”. Immediately you see leather sales volumes increase and leather buy volumes decrease. We are now at the point where sales volumes are decreasing and buy volumes increasing. Again reinforcing the fact that the leather farm is a complete failure.

No it doesn’t. It shows number of bids and number of items listed for sale and the high bid/low sale prices. It doesn’t show how many are actually sold between players.

Auburn.2456:

Diminishing returns was done away with like 3 patches ago.

That was only inside the Halloween labyrinth

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I just did the ‘leather farm’ a couple of times (my first times), and I thought it was fun enough. Lots of leather packets (can’t remember the name) and plenty of Champion Bags, as well. Not to mention the other drops.

If players don’t like the ‘leather’ part of the farm, maybe they will go for the Champion Bags; it takes less than 10 minutes or so to do the circuit.

These champion bags only drop leather though…

My bad. I haven’t actually opened any of them, so I was unaware.

Just disregard….

Did the leather zerg last night for about 2 hours, managed about 103 thick leather but only 6 hardened leather scraps (which is what i was after initially). Even taking away the fact that I hate zerging in general, it proved to be a waste of time. Maybe I’m just one of those people that needs a clear direction rather than just slaying stuff, Id rather go to Tarir or Vinewrath and try much luck there. The leather farm took forever to arrive, they could have reverted the crafting changes from before, and at least imo it was a disappointment.

Khailyn.6248:

Did the leather zerg last night for about 2 hours, managed about 103 thick leather but only 6 hardened leather scraps (which is what i was after initially). Even taking away the fact that I hate zerging in general, it proved to be a waste of time. Maybe I’m just one of those people that needs a clear direction rather than just slaying stuff, Id rather go to Tarir or Vinewrath and try much luck there. The leather farm took forever to arrive, they could have reverted the crafting changes from before, and at least imo it was a disappointment.

I enjoy farming/zerging and still found it a waste of time.

Frenchtoastersticks.8061:

I enjoy farming/zerging and still found it a waste of time.

^ this 100%. I love farming and running around Bitterfrost doing events but the leather farm was just awful

I’m not sure what value that adds to the discussion … Anet can’t adjust content to ensure every player’s personal preference is taken into account so everyone will like everything they do. Liking farming doesn’t automatically mean you will like one specific instance just because it’s for farming.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s 2017 and people are still misinterpreting the manifesto? The leather farm is not a deviation from it.

Manifesto – A declaration of policy and aims. If we use that definition then Anet has not written a very clear manifesto for it’s being misinterpreted by quite a lot of people. I’m willing to buy this because it wasn’t until things started to get toxic about farming did they finally start “fixing” things – even after admitting they know they were broken and had no problem with people using broken mechanics. And I say broken, because you fix things that are broken, things that been poorly implemented get refined.

“We want to make things less grindy.”