Guild Wars 2

Gaile Gray.6029:

I’m looking forward to you guys seeing it fully, after which it’ll be great if you share those impressions as well.

Oh, have no fear. We’ll say what we think of it. The question is, are you guys ready and willing to hear it?

miguelsil.6324:

Gaile Gray.6029:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Here’s a thought: How about waiting until it’s actually in the game before deciding whether we like something or not?

I think I detect a bit of an ironic voice in that comment. However, I agree with the advice because it just makes sense. (Sort of like looking at the pictures in a photograph menu isn’t the same as tasting the food?)

We know from the blog post that a static screenshot doesn’t show us all the elements incorporated into the legendary armor. I’m looking forward to you guys seeing it fully, after which it’ll be great if you share those impressions as well.

Here s a thought, how about making the new gear obtainable in EVERY game mode? There isnt even a WVW ascended armour vendor in that neglected game mode and now you r bringing new shinies for pve only. Even spvp got a decent way of getting ascended 2 seasons ago. And wvw we can go 600ranks and get AT MOST a pair of rimgs with fixed stats, not even able to select stats.

The hardest work has been making it animate. Now that is out of the way, I would expect it will open the door for more designs and across other modes. WvW feels prime for this, since it lacks a lot of reward incentives to bring new blood and it’s a signature part of the game.

Jski.6180:

@ Fatalyz.7168
Up to this point gw2 has been a very player friendly game somthing you can log in do something and log out as you want. Raids are on a comply different level or having to get ppl together get the right build and classes and get the right communication. This IS a big changes to gw2 old philosophy. By wanting more added to raids though rewards such as legendary armor is a major changes to gw2 nearly on the level of making gw2 into a different game altogether.

You can still hit player with more then one rock of the metor so… i am not sure what your talking about and there are a lot of skills that are persisting aoe that can hit with more then one. What was it about hitting NPC out side of raids (in wvw siege) that made it needed to be nerf?

Ghost thf where there form the start condi was just simply not that strong so it was never used a lot. Also it was short bow 4? that the ghost thf use to use. This game been out for a long time raids are just the “Johnny come lately” so its Anet new love affair. That kind of how anet been like from the start over fixing the old they simply try to cover problem with new things that add all new problems and raids add in a LOT of new problems.

You do compared to what gw2 use to be. Human are still human they rate and require linking gear and now dps meters something anet as been agned from the start (only now they soften on it).

I get that but we are talking about the current legendary armor and it is only in raids from the info we have. That is a problem its great that you feel that way but we NEED to make anet feel that way. By being soft on anet for putting things into raids only means you become part of the problem.

The GW2 community NEEDS to lock arms on this raids are not the only thing in gw2.

i dont think raids are the only thing in gw2, they ve added maps, and remember that raids really should have shipped with Hot. If you think of raids in that context they are just a small part of hot. They also have small raid team.

the raid team works because they are small, and have clear vision, with a relatively small goal. They seem like they are creating tons of content because its consistently released. It didnt take them years like fractals, or never again, like twilight path. Or forgotten like guild missions. Basically raids are series of boss battles, thats probably significantly less resources than the new maps, or apparently legendary implementation.

and gw2 has a tendency to try to force certain content. legendaries needed dungeons, wvw and map completion initially. So while raids are new, having to do x to get y isnt new. i think the biggest problem is that raids are substantially less accessible than any other content in gw. The 10 man requirement combined with a high skill cap basically guarantees that.

Randulf.7614:

miguelsil.6324:

Gaile Gray.6029:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Here’s a thought: How about waiting until it’s actually in the game before deciding whether we like something or not?

I think I detect a bit of an ironic voice in that comment. However, I agree with the advice because it just makes sense. (Sort of like looking at the pictures in a photograph menu isn’t the same as tasting the food?)

We know from the blog post that a static screenshot doesn’t show us all the elements incorporated into the legendary armor. I’m looking forward to you guys seeing it fully, after which it’ll be great if you share those impressions as well.

Here s a thought, how about making the new gear obtainable in EVERY game mode? There isnt even a WVW ascended armour vendor in that neglected game mode and now you r bringing new shinies for pve only. Even spvp got a decent way of getting ascended 2 seasons ago. And wvw we can go 600ranks and get AT MOST a pair of rimgs with fixed stats, not even able to select stats.

The hardest work has been making it animate. Now that is out of the way, I would expect it will open the door for more designs and across other modes. WvW feels prime for this, since it lacks a lot of reward incentives to bring new blood and it’s a signature part of the game.

Looking at the blog, the hardest work has been (as in case of every other armor set so far) making sure it doesn’t clip/clips as less as possible. Which isn’t going to get better for future problems at all.

phys.7689:

Jski.6180:

@ Fatalyz.7168
Up to this point gw2 has been a very player friendly game somthing you can log in do something and log out as you want. Raids are on a comply different level or having to get ppl together get the right build and classes and get the right communication. This IS a big changes to gw2 old philosophy. By wanting more added to raids though rewards such as legendary armor is a major changes to gw2 nearly on the level of making gw2 into a different game altogether.

You can still hit player with more then one rock of the metor so… i am not sure what your talking about and there are a lot of skills that are persisting aoe that can hit with more then one. What was it about hitting NPC out side of raids (in wvw siege) that made it needed to be nerf?

Ghost thf where there form the start condi was just simply not that strong so it was never used a lot. Also it was short bow 4? that the ghost thf use to use. This game been out for a long time raids are just the “Johnny come lately” so its Anet new love affair. That kind of how anet been like from the start over fixing the old they simply try to cover problem with new things that add all new problems and raids add in a LOT of new problems.

You do compared to what gw2 use to be. Human are still human they rate and require linking gear and now dps meters something anet as been agned from the start (only now they soften on it).

I get that but we are talking about the current legendary armor and it is only in raids from the info we have. That is a problem its great that you feel that way but we NEED to make anet feel that way. By being soft on anet for putting things into raids only means you become part of the problem.

The GW2 community NEEDS to lock arms on this raids are not the only thing in gw2.

i dont think raids are the only thing in gw2, they ve added maps, and remember that raids really should have shipped with Hot. If you think of raids in that context they are just a small part of hot. They also have small raid team.

the raid team works because they are small, and have clear vision, with a relatively small goal. They seem like they are creating tons of content because its consistently released. It didnt take them years like fractals, or never again, like twilight path. Or forgotten like guild missions. Basically raids are series of boss battles, thats probably significantly less resources than the new maps, or apparently legendary implementation.

and gw2 has a tendency to try to force certain content. legendaries needed dungeons, wvw and map completion initially. So while raids are new, having to do x to get y isnt new. i think the biggest problem is that raids are substantially less accessible than any other content in gw. The 10 man requirement combined with a high skill cap basically guarantees that.

I get that but we are getting changes from the small raid team that are effect every thing else out side of spvp. That way too much power for a small team.

Any way legendary armor is more then just skins its a real end game goal even more so then weapons. It what ppl have been working to for years and if they do not play raid every thing they been putting work into up to this point has been for nothing. That why you cant make this raid only or you are putting way too much onto raids. Its like pulling the rug from under ppl who have been playing gw2 for years now.

Gaile Gray.6029:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Here’s a thought: How about waiting until it’s actually in the game before deciding whether we like something or not?

I think I detect a bit of an ironic voice in that comment. However, I agree with the advice because it just makes sense. (Sort of like looking at the pictures in a photograph menu isn’t the same as tasting the food?)

We know from the blog post that a static screenshot doesn’t show us all the elements incorporated into the legendary armor. I’m looking forward to you guys seeing it fully, after which it’ll be great if you share those impressions as well.

photographs and food involve different senses. its more like comparing a photograph to a video.

also even if the animations, effects and transitions are awesome, it would be cooler still if people liked the base.

it is of course going to be subjective, but i think what people are saying is that the basics here are off, even if the detail and bells an whistles are good.

but it is theoretically possible the finished product can make it transcend, but it is pretty rare.

Randulf.7614:

miguelsil.6324:

Gaile Gray.6029:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Here’s a thought: How about waiting until it’s actually in the game before deciding whether we like something or not?

I think I detect a bit of an ironic voice in that comment. However, I agree with the advice because it just makes sense. (Sort of like looking at the pictures in a photograph menu isn’t the same as tasting the food?)

We know from the blog post that a static screenshot doesn’t show us all the elements incorporated into the legendary armor. I’m looking forward to you guys seeing it fully, after which it’ll be great if you share those impressions as well.

Here s a thought, how about making the new gear obtainable in EVERY game mode? There isnt even a WVW ascended armour vendor in that neglected game mode and now you r bringing new shinies for pve only. Even spvp got a decent way of getting ascended 2 seasons ago. And wvw we can go 600ranks and get AT MOST a pair of rimgs with fixed stats, not even able to select stats.

The hardest work has been making it animate. Now that is out of the way, I would expect it will open the door for more designs and across other modes. WvW feels prime for this, since it lacks a lot of reward incentives to bring new blood and it’s a signature part of the game.

I have litle faith in that but maybe if i get a DEV post on subject i can change my mind and the rest of wvwers that feel the same.

Gaile Gray.6029:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Here’s a thought: How about waiting until it’s actually in the game before deciding whether we like something or not?

I think I detect a bit of an ironic voice in that comment. However, I agree with the advice because it just makes sense. (Sort of like looking at the pictures in a photograph menu isn’t the same as tasting the food?)

We know from the blog post that a static screenshot doesn’t show us all the elements incorporated into the legendary armor. I’m looking forward to you guys seeing it fully, after which it’ll be great if you share those impressions as well.

Exactly my point. My post was originally in the ‘petition’ thread before it got merged, but my advice still stands in this new merged thread too.

People can’t possibly tell what their own character will look like with the armour on fully until it’s in-game – especially when dye options haven’t been taken into account (they can be dyed, right?). In my opinion, it’s rather premature to be posting a petition about that.

To me, it’s almost like saying “I don’t like the preview of the next chapter of the Living Story – please change the story!”

Randulf.7614:

miguelsil.6324:

Gaile Gray.6029:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Here’s a thought: How about waiting until it’s actually in the game before deciding whether we like something or not?

I think I detect a bit of an ironic voice in that comment. However, I agree with the advice because it just makes sense. (Sort of like looking at the pictures in a photograph menu isn’t the same as tasting the food?)

We know from the blog post that a static screenshot doesn’t show us all the elements incorporated into the legendary armor. I’m looking forward to you guys seeing it fully, after which it’ll be great if you share those impressions as well.

Here s a thought, how about making the new gear obtainable in EVERY game mode? There isnt even a WVW ascended armour vendor in that neglected game mode and now you r bringing new shinies for pve only. Even spvp got a decent way of getting ascended 2 seasons ago. And wvw we can go 600ranks and get AT MOST a pair of rimgs with fixed stats, not even able to select stats.

The hardest work has been making it animate. Now that is out of the way, I would expect it will open the door for more designs and across other modes. WvW feels prime for this, since it lacks a lot of reward incentives to bring new blood and it’s a signature part of the game.

I would agree that WvW seems like a good mode to get legendary armor next. I don’t WvW myself but lord knows they’ve been left behind in terms of rewards. Then fractals.

I tend to agree with Ms. Gray on most things (rangers rule!) however as a counterpoint I’d add that a business wouldn’t run pictures of food (to use her analogy) that made it unappealing. I mean no one would be excited to try it if it looked disgusting. So if the armor is dynamically animated and this animation is what really helps it stand out and sells the design why wasn’t a video created to showcase that? Why present this feature with static images if it doesn’t represent it well at all?

(edit added an “a”)

Astralporing.1957:

Randulf.7614:

miguelsil.6324:

Gaile Gray.6029:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Here’s a thought: How about waiting until it’s actually in the game before deciding whether we like something or not?

I think I detect a bit of an ironic voice in that comment. However, I agree with the advice because it just makes sense. (Sort of like looking at the pictures in a photograph menu isn’t the same as tasting the food?)

We know from the blog post that a static screenshot doesn’t show us all the elements incorporated into the legendary armor. I’m looking forward to you guys seeing it fully, after which it’ll be great if you share those impressions as well.

Here s a thought, how about making the new gear obtainable in EVERY game mode? There isnt even a WVW ascended armour vendor in that neglected game mode and now you r bringing new shinies for pve only. Even spvp got a decent way of getting ascended 2 seasons ago. And wvw we can go 600ranks and get AT MOST a pair of rimgs with fixed stats, not even able to select stats.

The hardest work has been making it animate. Now that is out of the way, I would expect it will open the door for more designs and across other modes. WvW feels prime for this, since it lacks a lot of reward incentives to bring new blood and it’s a signature part of the game.

Looking at the blog, the hardest work has been (as in case of every other armor set so far) making sure it doesn’t clip/clips as less as possible. Which isn’t going to get better for future problems at all.

i know maybe im crazy, but i have always felt the focus on clipping is highly overrated. I personally would rather have 10 time the armor/variety, than 1 armor with less clipping. But i guess i come from the old days when to not clip was to not exist, or be a statue.

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

It should be hard to get but not though exclusive content so every one can get it over time.

I disagree. Exclusive content is exactly where it belongs. More exclusivity in skins that are obtained is better overall.

Jski.6180:

There have been lose of builds in wvw divisibility to do nerf and buffs of skill becuse of them working one way or another in raids. Ghost thf (all though i hate this build but it still should be a chose) was nerf because ppl could solo a raid boss not because it was annoying. Staff ele was nerf because its metor was doing too much dmg vs big mobs (all though there still WH with wild fire and lighting orb so i am not sure what going on there). These where updates that destroy builds because these effect push the classes over the top in raids and raids only.

Meteor Shower should have been nerfed long ago, not just because of raids. Yes, raids brought it’s issues more into the light, but it was already OP.

Do you have any proof that ghost thief was nerfed because of raids, or is that just your assumption?

Also, if Ghost thief was nerfed because it could solo bosses, why hasn’t Druid been nerfed yet, as it is able to solo Cairn. Mesmers can solo VG (I’m pretty sure can be done, just not how long it would take).

Jski.6180:

There is a gear wall as in you need the best gear to hit the max / min of dps armor and healing checks of a boss fight in raids. You could even say there build and class walls in raids due to having to over specialized in a roll to even beat bosses. That not what GW2 was made to be and its not good to try to make ppl play that way for things like legendary armor. Even legendary weapons where a mostly play the way you wanted to all be it took a long time to do it.

Two things here:
1) You do not need the best gear in order to clear raids, they have been done in blues and greens. They are also low-manned pretty regularly (I can verify this as I have regularly low-manned bosses, 5-man VG etc), as well as possible to go past the enrage timer without a wipe (my guild once went about 3-5 minutes past the timer on Matt, but still killed him with only one other death). This indicates that the min/maxing is way more lax than you make it out to be, and that the true barrier to being able to clear raids, is simply mastering the mechanics of the fight.

2) You can still play the game the way that you want and earn Legendary armor, you might not be able to earn it the way you want to, but to say you can’t earn it from doing what you want is false. You can farm AB, Frac 40, etc til your heart is content, and take the money that you made, and buy it.

Jski.6180:

The thing about Legendary back pieces is that they added in blood stone fine where you can effetely have one with out too much work all be it weaker then a real legendary. I do think they need to add in more Legendary back pieces to the game out side of spvp but a back pieces is nothing compared to a wepon or a full armor set.

Backpieces are also, apparently, one of the easiest cosmetic items for them to add to the game. I’m not saying that other places don’t deserve to be able to have a Legendary armor reward with it, just not this one. Unfortunately it remains to be seen if Anet will do another set, and if so, will it remain Raid exclusive.

i’m pretty sure anet has said that buying runs is not officially supported, and in fact deterred, though they havent gone out their way to stop it. So claiming that as the mechanic designed to spread legendary to non raiders is not likely.

While buying runs isn’t officially supported, they don’t discourage it. It is worth noting that since they don’t support it, you are on your own if you get scammed. Yes you can report, but you probably won’t get anything back from it, so it is very much a at your own risk kind of thing.

In that context, yes someone who does not want to raid, can still acquire armor by buying runs, they just have to accept any risks that come with that.

I think it would be great if there were more ways to earn Legendary Insights (Especially if different Legendary Armor skins for other game modes isn’t already planned).

For example, upon completing any of the raid wings, it could unlock that wing’s reward track for PvP/WvW (similar to how completing the living world story unlocks the corresponding new map’s reward track currently).

The reward track could award the same amount of Legendary Insights as you can normally get per week for completing that raid wing. Each raid wing’s reward track could also be limited to only being able to be completed once per week.

This additional method of obtaining Legendary Insights would help alleviate a lot of players frustrations about having to “grind” PvE raids for so long to obtain enough LI for Legendary Armor, without removing the skill factor needed to complete the PvE raids in the first place. And don’t forget, Legendary Insights are only just one of the many ingredients needed to craft Legendary Armor.

So to recap, with this additional method of obtaining Legendary Insights, the following will remain to be true for obtaining Legendary Armor:

• It still requires completing each of the current raid wings at least once (to complete the Legendary Armor collection achievements & to unlock the reward tracks).
• The above requirement therefore makes sure that obtaining Legendary Armor still requires a certain level of skill (for those that think WvW/PvP some how inherently requires less skill than the PvE raids).
• Obtaining enough Legendary Insights still requires a significant time investment (Skilled raiding groups should be able to get the LI quicker still)

And the following would No Longer be true to obtain the armor:

• You have to “grind” PvE Raids for weeks edit: months on end, even if that is not your preferred area of game play.

Mr Pin.6728:

I tend to agree with Ms. Gray on most things (rangers rule!) however as a counterpoint I’d add that a business wouldn’t run pictures of food (to use her analogy) that made it unappealing. I mean no one would be excited to try it if it looked disgusting. So if the armor is dynamically animated and this animation is what really helps it stand out and sells the design why wasn’t a video created to showcase that? Why present this feature with static images if it doesn’t represent it well at all?

(edit added an “a”)

Very good question, I mean we’ve seen the heavy one in action a few months ago, why not a similar video now perhaps even one showing these on the various races?

I agree with many here that are tired of all the medium trench coats in game and think that the spikes are a bit overdone.

However, I’d need alot more information before passing judgement on the legendaries.

1. What do they look like from behind?
2. What do the other race/gender combos look like (ie. male light armor)?
3. How do they look when dye is applied?
4. What do the animations look like?

At any rate, it’s all moot since I’m primarily a wvw player and even if I wasn’t, I doubt I’ll ever have enough gold to get anything in the legendary category.

The sad truth is that 75% of the legendary weapons skins/animations are just not worth the grind.

From the published pictures, it seems all legendary armor sets are really awful.

Lets hope ANet can still do something about it.

I don’t understand why people are saying Legendary armor is a “raid only” thing.

If you look at the actual requirements you need to do Fractals, 500 level crafting, and HoT meta events. The legendary insights are honestly the easiest things to acquire.

Harper.4173:

If you have someone that can’t raid ( because of low skill) – if they’re hardcore enough about the game they can get the armor – they can buy the runs with gold.

Just a question. If it weren’t possible to buy raid runs, your argument would be that one could hire someone to play on his/her account and earn the Legendary Armor that way, therefore they would be accessible?

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Probably this is the mentality that made me think twice in the recent months whether raids are a good addition to GW2 after all. Downgrading everyone who doesn’t want to participate in a game mode that wasn’t part of the game for 3 years , doesn’t have 17.000g by now and can’t afford to spend thousand bucks on a armor set?

Superiority complex is becoming too much of a thing here

I have to agree with what allot of the critics have said about the medium armor another trench coat does not sound amazing.

On the other hand the other two armors do not look that bad.

From what I can tell most people who are going to post on forums like this are going to be those who were or are working towards the armor and do not like it. Most who do are probably just waiting for it and don’t care to say anything.

But please try something other than tench coats next time lol 90% or so trench coats for medium armor.

Scipio.3204:

Harper.4173:

If you have someone that can’t raid ( because of low skill) – if they’re hardcore enough about the game they can get the armor – they can buy the runs with gold.

Just a question. If it weren’t possible to buy raid runs, your argument would be that one could hire someone to play on his/her account and earn the Legendary Armor that way, therefore they would be accessible?

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Probably this is the mentality that made me think twice in the recent months whether raids are a good addition to GW2 after all. Downgrading everyone who doesn’t want to participate in a game mode that wasn’t part of the game for 3 years , doesn’t have 17.000g by now and can’t afford to spend thousand bucks on a armor set?

Superiority complex is becoming too much of a thing here

Who is being downgraded? Could you be more specific? If you are referring to stats, Legendary is no stronger than Ascended. This will have the utility of being able to change stats, runes, and infusions, without needing multiple sets of gear.

Crinn.7864:

I don’t understand why people are saying Legendary armor is a “raid only” thing.

If you look at the actual requirements you need to do Fractals, 500 level crafting, and HoT meta events. The legendary insights are honestly the easiest things to acquire.

Its not just that the point is that they are adding a lot of things and changeling gw2 because of raids. The legendary armor is just added to it.

Look at it this way GW2 is know for its light play non gear treadmill and if you wanted something more hardcore it was for skins only. To ask for a major shift from this light play to what is seen in raids is a big jump and one that gw2 was not made for. That and its showing that the devs are putting a lot of there time into raids to the point of foolishness. As in raids are a very small part of gw2 and a very small population over all. Yet the game is being made to be a raid game.

This is doom to fail the devs are putting all there eggs into one thing raids and if raids do not keep the population going till the next expansion your not going to see gw2 saved by it. You cant do this and is gross negligence on the side of the game detector for the game and its share holders.

If you want to raid that ok if you want legendary skins from raids too that ok but to only make the game into a raid game is not ok and that is the current tread. Gw2 is more then just raids and its silly to try to shove this game into a stander mmorpg raiding system.

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

Jski.6180:

Crinn.7864:

I don’t understand why people are saying Legendary armor is a “raid only” thing.

If you look at the actual requirements you need to do Fractals, 500 level crafting, and HoT meta events. The legendary insights are honestly the easiest things to acquire.

Its not just that the point is that they are adding a lot of things and changeling gw2 because of raids. The legendary armor is just added to it.

Look at it this way GW2 is know for its light play non gear treadmill and if you wanted something more hardcore it was for skins only. To ask for a major shift from this light play to what is seen in raids is a big jump and one that gw2 was not made for. That and its showing that the devs are putting a lot of there time into raids to the point of foolishness. As in raids are a very small part of gw2 and a very small population over all. Yet the game is being made to be a raid game.

This is doom to fail the devs are putting all there eggs into one thing raids and if raids do not keep the population going till the next expansion your not going to see gw2 saved by it. You cant do this and is gross negligence on the side of the game detector for the game and its share holders.

If you want to raid that ok if you want legendary skins from raids too that ok but to only make the game into a raid game is not ok and that is the current tread. Gw2 is more then just raids and its silly to try to shove this game into a stander mmorpg raiding system.

Prove that the devs are putting all of their eggs into one basket. Something besides anecdotal evidence (something I know you can’t provide).

If the devs were trying to make this a raid game, raids would certainly be a lot more accessible than they currently are, and you wouldn’t see the posts about making them more accessible. To me that means that they are not making this a raid game and only providing it as niche content.

Also, prove that raids bringing changes to other parts of the game is a bad thing. I can provide plenty of proof that raids have caused changes to other areas of the game, and those areas are now objectively better. (example, Nightmare fractal creation got a lot of inspiration from the raid team and being able to make it’s own mechanics).

Something else that you are mistaken in, there is still no gear treadmill in gw2, not since the addition of ascended (legendary is no better stats-wise), and that difficult content was always supposed to be in the game (looking at you explorable mode dungeons), Anet just failed to deliver on it.

Yes, the raid team has put a lot of effort into it, and it shows wonderfully. It’s a credit that a team so small is able to produce such high quality content. I would also go so far as to argue that LS3 has been a huge improvement over previous seasons, and there has been more from LS, fractals, and sPvP than there ever was for raids.

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Crinn.7864:

I don’t understand why people are saying Legendary armor is a “raid only” thing.

If you look at the actual requirements you need to do Fractals, 500 level crafting, and HoT meta events. The legendary insights are honestly the easiest things to acquire.

Its not just that the point is that they are adding a lot of things and changeling gw2 because of raids. The legendary armor is just added to it.

Look at it this way GW2 is know for its light play non gear treadmill and if you wanted something more hardcore it was for skins only. To ask for a major shift from this light play to what is seen in raids is a big jump and one that gw2 was not made for. That and its showing that the devs are putting a lot of there time into raids to the point of foolishness. As in raids are a very small part of gw2 and a very small population over all. Yet the game is being made to be a raid game.

This is doom to fail the devs are putting all there eggs into one thing raids and if raids do not keep the population going till the next expansion your not going to see gw2 saved by it. You cant do this and is gross negligence on the side of the game detector for the game and its share holders.

If you want to raid that ok if you want legendary skins from raids too that ok but to only make the game into a raid game is not ok and that is the current tread. Gw2 is more then just raids and its silly to try to shove this game into a stander mmorpg raiding system.

Prove that the devs are putting all of their eggs into one basket. Something besides anecdotal evidence (something I know you can’t provide).

If the devs were trying to make this a raid game, raids would certainly be a lot more accessible than they currently are, and you wouldn’t see the posts about making them more accessible. To me that means that they are not making this a raid game and only providing it as niche content.

Also, prove that raids bringing changes to other parts of the game is a bad thing. I can provide plenty of proof that raids have caused changes to other areas of the game, and those areas are now objectively better. (example, Nightmare fractal creation got a lot of inspiration from the raid team and being able to make it’s own mechanics).

Something else that you are mistaken in, there is still no gear treadmill in gw2, not since the addition of ascended (legendary is no better stats-wise), and that difficult content was always supposed to be in the game (looking at you explorable mode dungeons), Anet just failed to deliver on it.

Yes, the raid team has put a lot of effort into it, and it shows wonderfully. It’s a credit that a team so small is able to produce such high quality content. I would also go so far as to argue that LS3 has been a huge improvement over previous seasons, and there has been more from LS, fractals, and sPvP than there ever was for raids.

Well there skill changes base off of raids boss fights and the cut back on ele dmg over all vs “end game content.” “With that said, we’re also looking to reduce the elementalist’s damage in high-level content, as this profession’s damage and utility mix currently crowds out other potential high-damage dealers.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-22-2017/first#post6516356
Read this please.

At the end of the you could get all the gear you needed from every event in the game and legendary weapons where a mix of event over all though gw2 with a old wvw lock that they lost when they found ppl did not want to do map completion in wvw yet you need to do more in raids to get the armor… I am not sure how many different ways i can say this Anet is trying to forces raids on ppl.

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Fatalyz.7168:

Scipio.3204:

Harper.4173:

If you have someone that can’t raid ( because of low skill) – if they’re hardcore enough about the game they can get the armor – they can buy the runs with gold.

Just a question. If it weren’t possible to buy raid runs, your argument would be that one could hire someone to play on his/her account and earn the Legendary Armor that way, therefore they would be accessible?

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Probably this is the mentality that made me think twice in the recent months whether raids are a good addition to GW2 after all. Downgrading everyone who doesn’t want to participate in a game mode that wasn’t part of the game for 3 years , doesn’t have 17.000g by now and can’t afford to spend thousand bucks on a armor set?

Superiority complex is becoming too much of a thing here

Who is being downgraded? Could you be more specific? If you are referring to stats, Legendary is no stronger than Ascended. This will have the utility of being able to change stats, runes, and infusions, without needing multiple sets of gear.

Let me quote again.

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Suddenly if you can’t earn the new Armor set you will be thought as less of a player compared to those who can, and it is starting to show, because you know, you can’t be hardcore if you are incapable of raiding for any reason and you are not loaded.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

I understand where those who suggest waiting until the new armor is in the game before deciding whether or not you like it..but..

What we see in the screenshot is how its going to look in game, except when it changes. I’n not sure that, “sometimes it wont look like that,” is going to convince someone who doesnt like how it looks to pursue the armor.

This matter was compared to judging food by a picture. The lroblem with that is that taste and sight are two completely different senses. This would be more like sampling a dish, diliking the taste, and being asked to wait until you eat a full portion to judge. If you find a single bite unpalatable then its reasonable to decide to not order that dish.

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

Most truly LEGENDARY game play right?

Scipio.3204:

Fatalyz.7168:

Scipio.3204:

Harper.4173:

If you have someone that can’t raid ( because of low skill) – if they’re hardcore enough about the game they can get the armor – they can buy the runs with gold.

Just a question. If it weren’t possible to buy raid runs, your argument would be that one could hire someone to play on his/her account and earn the Legendary Armor that way, therefore they would be accessible?

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Probably this is the mentality that made me think twice in the recent months whether raids are a good addition to GW2 after all. Downgrading everyone who doesn’t want to participate in a game mode that wasn’t part of the game for 3 years , doesn’t have 17.000g by now and can’t afford to spend thousand bucks on a armor set?

Superiority complex is becoming too much of a thing here

Who is being downgraded? Could you be more specific? If you are referring to stats, Legendary is no stronger than Ascended. This will have the utility of being able to change stats, runes, and infusions, without needing multiple sets of gear.

Let me quote again.

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Suddenly if you can’t earn the new Armor set you will be thought as less of a player compared to those who can, and it is starting to show, because you know, you can’t be hardcore if you are incapable of raiding for any reason and you are not loaded.

I think you are reading too much into his statement. You can certainly earn the armor as a casual, the difference being how fast you obtain it. His statement is more about, if you want the armor enough, you’ll get it.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

Seems anet dose not want that and this is far from a capitalist environment lol.

Jski.6180:

Well there skill changes base off of raids boss fights and the cut back on ele dmg over all vs “end game content.” “With that said, we’re also looking to reduce the elementalist’s damage in high-level content, as this profession’s damage and utility mix currently crowds out other potential high-damage dealers.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-22-2017/first#post6516356
Read this please.

I’m familiar with those notes, if you would go back and read my conversation with you, I even said with the exception of Meteor Shower, but that it was arguably overpowered in other parts of the game as well. So yes, while raids played a part in it getting nerfed, it should have been nerfed long before HoT ever came out, and by extension, raids.

Jski.6180:

At the end of the you could get all the gear you needed from every event in the game and legendary weapons where a mix of event over all though gw2 with a old wvw lock that they lost when they found ppl did not want to do map completion in wvw yet you need to do more in raids to get the armor… I am not sure how many different ways i can say this Anet is trying to forces raids on ppl.

Requiring more be done in a specific content, to obtain the most prestigious item for said content is not them forcing anything on us.

Weapons were general prestige items for people who participated in multiple forms of content. Legendary armor, at least this iteration of it, is a prestige item for people who participate in raids, of course you are going to have to do a lot of raid related things to do them. That’s like complaining that you had to do a lot of pvp for Ascension or a lot of Fractals for Ad Infinitum.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

Seems anet dose not want that and this is far from a capitalist environment lol.

Anet does not what what? You paying for runs? They have said that they don’t mind, they won’t support it, so if you get taken advantage of, you are on your own.

What’s not capitalistic about paying for raid runs? You have a need, to be able to complete content, some one is offering to meet that need, at a price. There isn’t anything there that doesn’t seem capitalistic. Perhaps you could explain what you think capitalism is?

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Well there skill changes base off of raids boss fights and the cut back on ele dmg over all vs “end game content.” “With that said, we’re also looking to reduce the elementalist’s damage in high-level content, as this profession’s damage and utility mix currently crowds out other potential high-damage dealers.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-22-2017/first#post6516356
Read this please.

I’m familiar with those notes, if you would go back and read my conversation with you, I even said with the exception of Meteor Shower, but that it was arguably overpowered in other parts of the game as well. So yes, while raids played a part in it getting nerfed, it should have been nerfed long before HoT ever came out, and by extension, raids.

Jski.6180:

At the end of the you could get all the gear you needed from every event in the game and legendary weapons where a mix of event over all though gw2 with a old wvw lock that they lost when they found ppl did not want to do map completion in wvw yet you need to do more in raids to get the armor… I am not sure how many different ways i can say this Anet is trying to forces raids on ppl.

Requiring more be done in a specific content, to obtain the most prestigious item for said content is not them forcing anything on us.

Weapons were general prestige items for people who participated in multiple forms of content. Legendary armor, at least this iteration of it, is a prestige item for people who participate in raids, of course you are going to have to do a lot of raid related things to do them. That’s like complaining that you had to do a lot of pvp for Ascension or a lot of Fractals for Ad Infinitum.

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

1st off the game is very far from a capitalist design.

2nd that is a crappy game design, because the solution is to not play the content, and incentivizes the most explotive farm currently available as the way to advance.

Which is why capitalism is a crappy design for this type of game. Capitalism focuses on the most efficient money making technique, where as adventure games, generally want to focus on adventure.

I’m not saying no one should sell or buy runs, but that is not part of the game design, it isnt a feasible answer for bringing legendaries to the non Raid population. Its a work around that some people are willing to do, not a feature.

Just like coming in to my house through the back window is not a feature of the house’s design, Nor would it be an excuse for poorly designed front door that only 5% of the population wants to go through.

There are some valid argumenets for why maybe having a requirement in raids makes a type of sense, the fact that people buy runs isnt really a strong contender there.

Jski.6180:

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

Where does it need it? Fractals, dungeons, world boss events, shall I keep going? It was over performing in all of those environments. They most likely didn’t care before because, well open world and dungeons. However, with the damage that eles could do, they over shadowed everything, not just in raids.

Jski.6180:

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

I’m pretty comfortable in saying that they won’t remove the requirements for raids from this Legendary armor set. And the reason to not do it, was because Anet sold it to us as the ultimate raid reward.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

If you think raids are a new thing, you haven’t been paying attention. Raids have been in the making for at least half of this games life (iirc Raids were announced close to 2 years ago and before then they were already being worked on, we just didn’t have confirmation before then. The closest we had to confirmation that they were looking for a lead raid designer).

Do you have any proof that Raids aren’t going to last and that they will become abandoned like dungeons? Or are you making things up?

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

1st off the game is very far from a capitalist design.

2nd that is a crappy game design, because the solution is to not play the content, and incentivizes the most explotive farm currently available as the way to advance.

Which is why capitalism is a crappy design for this type of game. Capitalism focuses on the most efficient money making technique, where as adventure games, generally want to focus on adventure.

I’m not saying no one should sell or buy runs, but that is not part of the game design, it isnt a feasible answer for bringing legendaries to the non Raid population. Its a work around that some people are willing to do, not a feature.

Just like coming in to my house through the back window is not a feature of the house’s design, Nor would it be an excuse for poorly designed front door that only 5% of the population wants to go through.

There are some valid argumenets for why maybe having a requirement in raids makes a type of sense, the fact that people buy runs isnt really a strong contender there.

The difference between your back window example and buying runs. One is illegal (trespassing, breaking and entering, etc) the other has been allowed by the developers.

And on the poorly designed front door, if you are trying to keep out all but 5%, then that door achieved it’s goal.

Shovel Face.4512:

Ashen.2907:

Kyvrn.4209:

Ayrilana.1396:

Not all skins will appeal to everyone.

Well that’s obvious.

To be fair, so was your title. Of course legendary armor was going to disappoint some people.

Not some, majority.

The Armors look awful, I know it, you know it, Anet knows it, everyone knows it.

Medium armor is another trench coat when medium armor wardrobe is 96% trench coat. Where’s the diversity? People have stated they HATE trench coats, yet Anet keeps pumping them out.

So much for legendary, I’ll just transmute them. 2 years of awful, hideous crap.

Well, to be fair, I think leather armor has the most challenges to work with. Especially the chest pieces, which is the only real complaint I ever hear of.

Light armor is not armor, so it can literally look like anything; or nothing.

Heavy armor has the advantages of having a high substance ceiling, the biggest surface area(for details), and highest variety of real life bases to work on.

Crafted medium armor is based on Leather. And the only leather armor that ever existed was Cuir Boulli, which would look like plate armor. Then you’d have the problem of armors looking like boring Heavy Armor, largely because hardened leather can’t support the same level of ornamentation. Standard fantasy armor leather armor is usually limited to studded leather(which really has no variation to speak of, and a few exist already in game) hide-type armor(which I agree are underused), but the variation of those are limited by fur patterns, and also, honestly, would be the hardest to animate, and has limited ornamentation; since this kind of armor’s aesthetic isn’t “fitted”, its just kinda thrown onto your character. Leather jackets I suppose are underused, but they are literally just coats without the bottom half, meaning less room for ornamentation.

Another option, which isn’t consistent with leather material is chain or ring coats and shirts. The material really is a non-issue with non-crafted armor. This option would work fine with vendor, reward, collection or Mystic Forge skins. But variety is very limited inherently. I personally don’t see how you can make ornamentation on it aside from arm or neck flair.

I think that the reason that they use Coats so much is because they have the following advantages 1) They are consistent with the materials used to craft them, leather 2) they have a high surface area for more ornamentation 3) they animate most impressively

So, the issue here also not so much “What do all the other outfits look like”; it’s also, “What’s the best pick for what is supposed to be the most detailed and impressive piece of medium armor in the game”?

I think with all that in mind, the only legitimate choice would be a coat. The only other thing that could look impressive, IMO, would either be a hide-type armor, which would be limited in ornamentation; or a “fake plate” type, which would inherently be immediately accused of being derivative of heavy armor

Shovel Face.4512:

Ashen.2907:

Kyvrn.4209:

Ayrilana.1396:

Not all skins will appeal to everyone.

Well that’s obvious.

To be fair, so was your title. Of course legendary armor was going to disappoint some people.

Not some, majority.

The Armors look awful, I know it, you know it, Anet knows it, everyone knows it.

Medium armor is another trench coat when medium armor wardrobe is 96% trench coat. Where’s the diversity? People have stated they HATE trench coats, yet Anet keeps pumping them out.

So much for legendary, I’ll just transmute them. 2 years of awful, hideous crap.

Well, to be fair, I think leather armor has the most challenges to work with. Especially the chest pieces, which is the only real complaint I ever hear of.

Light armor is not armor, so it can literally look like anything; or nothing.

Heavy armor has the advantages of having a high substance ceiling, the biggest surface area(for details), and highest variety of real life bases to work on.

Crafted medium armor is based on Leather. And the only leather armor that ever existed was Cuir Boulli, which would look like plate armor. Then you’d have the problem of armors looking like boring Heavy Armor, largely because hardened leather can’t support the same level of ornamentation. Standard fantasy armor leather armor is usually limited to studded leather(which really has no variation to speak of, and a few exist already in game) hide-type armor(which I agree are underused), but the variation of those are limited by fur patterns, and also, honestly, would be the hardest to animate, and has limited ornamentation; since this kind of armor’s aesthetic isn’t “fitted”, its just kinda thrown onto your character. Leather jackets I suppose are underused, but they are literally just coats without the bottom half, meaning less room for ornamentation.

Another option, which isn’t consistent with leather material is chain or ring coats and shirts. The material really is a non-issue with non-crafted armor. This option would work fine with vendor, reward, collection or Mystic Forge skins. But variety is very limited inherently. I personally don’t see how you can make ornamentation on it aside from arm or neck flair.

I think that the reason that they use Coats so much is because they have the following advantages 1) They are consistent with the materials used to craft them, leather 2) they have a high surface area for more ornamentation 3) they animate most impressively

So, the issue here also not so much “What do all the other outfits look like”; it’s also, “What’s the best pick for what is supposed to be the most detailed and impressive piece of medium armor in the game”?

I think with all that in mind, the only legitimate choice would be a coat. The only other thing that could look impressive, IMO, would either be a hide-type armor, which would be limited in ornamentation; or a “fake plate” type, which would inherently be immediately accused of being derivative of heavy armor.

TLDR; I agree that leather coats are overused, but they are really the best option for a Legendary Armor piece.

Fatalyz.7168:

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

I don’t think people would mind as much if you only needed to complete all of the current raid wings once for the collection achievements. The problem is you have to then stick to completing raids over and over again for months, just to get enough of a single ingredient that is needed for each weight of legendary armor that you want.

At that point, raids aren’t just one of the many challenges you need to overcome for Legendary Armor, they are a huge required time sink/grind. And there are a lot of players who don’t enjoy the raiding, and would rather invest their time in other areas of the game that they enjoy instead (which can still be challenging content as well, ie PvP/WvW).

Also, you need 25 Legendary Insights per piece of armor (at least the current recipe shows that you need that many), where as you only need say 5 Chak Eggs and 5 Auric Ingots etc from other areas of the game. I would argue that the Auric Ingots and Chak Eggs are much easier to obtain than the Legendary Insights, but for some reason you need even more of the Insights.

The number of Insights needed per piece of armor could be reduced I suppose, but I think a better idea would be to just increase the number of ways to obtain Legendary Insights, such as in my previous suggestion.

Of course, if there are already plans to make more Legendary Armors skins for those other gamemodes (PvP and WvW), then none of this matters too much. It would be nice to know if that is something being planned though, and hopefully not something that is still years away before we can even start working towards unlocking it, which will take even more time.

Fatalyz.7168:

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

1st off the game is very far from a capitalist design.

2nd that is a crappy game design, because the solution is to not play the content, and incentivizes the most explotive farm currently available as the way to advance.

Which is why capitalism is a crappy design for this type of game. Capitalism focuses on the most efficient money making technique, where as adventure games, generally want to focus on adventure.

I’m not saying no one should sell or buy runs, but that is not part of the game design, it isnt a feasible answer for bringing legendaries to the non Raid population. Its a work around that some people are willing to do, not a feature.

Just like coming in to my house through the back window is not a feature of the house’s design, Nor would it be an excuse for poorly designed front door that only 5% of the population wants to go through.

There are some valid argumenets for why maybe having a requirement in raids makes a type of sense, the fact that people buy runs isnt really a strong contender there.

The difference between your back window example and buying runs. One is illegal (trespassing, breaking and entering, etc) the other has been allowed by the developers.

And on the poorly designed front door, if you are trying to keep out all but 5%, then that door achieved it’s goal.

its not illegal to come in through my own back window. And if a dude tries to sell me a house that i specifically cant get into the front door, but i can use the back window, im going to say that is a kittenty design for the house you are trying to sell me.

Point is, selling runs is not a game design choice, its a work around. its not illegal, but its not how developers expected people to access the content. Therefore people arguing that it is poor game design dont have to consider that element, because it is not part of the game design.

If you want to say raids being required for legendary armor is fine, there are some reasons, grey market selling of runs is not really one them.

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

1st off the game is very far from a capitalist design.

2nd that is a crappy game design, because the solution is to not play the content, and incentivizes the most explotive farm currently available as the way to advance.

Which is why capitalism is a crappy design for this type of game. Capitalism focuses on the most efficient money making technique, where as adventure games, generally want to focus on adventure.

I’m not saying no one should sell or buy runs, but that is not part of the game design, it isnt a feasible answer for bringing legendaries to the non Raid population. Its a work around that some people are willing to do, not a feature.

Just like coming in to my house through the back window is not a feature of the house’s design, Nor would it be an excuse for poorly designed front door that only 5% of the population wants to go through.

There are some valid argumenets for why maybe having a requirement in raids makes a type of sense, the fact that people buy runs isnt really a strong contender there.

The difference between your back window example and buying runs. One is illegal (trespassing, breaking and entering, etc) the other has been allowed by the developers.

And on the poorly designed front door, if you are trying to keep out all but 5%, then that door achieved it’s goal.

its not illegal to come in through my own back window. And if a dude tries to sell me a house that i specifically cant get into the front door, but i can use the back window, im going to say that is a kittenty design for the house you are trying to sell me.

Point is, selling runs is not a game design choice, its a work around. its not illegal, but its not how developers expected people to access the content. Therefore people arguing that it is poor game design dont have to consider that element, because it is not part of the game design.

If you want to say raids being required for legendary armor is fine, there are some reasons, grey market selling of runs is not really one them.

While true that that may not be how developers intended for the armor to be obtained, it doesn’t nullify it as a valid way to obtain the armor. You may not agree with it, that is fine. The point being, Anet allows it, so it is a valid option to obtaining the gear, if you can’t raid to obtain it.

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

Where does it need it? Fractals, dungeons, world boss events, shall I keep going? It was over performing in all of those environments. They most likely didn’t care before because, well open world and dungeons. However, with the damage that eles could do, they over shadowed everything, not just in raids.

Jski.6180:

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

I’m pretty comfortable in saying that they won’t remove the requirements for raids from this Legendary armor set. And the reason to not do it, was because Anet sold it to us as the ultimate raid reward.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

If you think raids are a new thing, you haven’t been paying attention. Raids have been in the making for at least half of this games life (iirc Raids were announced close to 2 years ago and before then they were already being worked on, we just didn’t have confirmation before then. The closest we had to confirmation that they were looking for a lead raid designer).

Do you have any proof that Raids aren’t going to last and that they will become abandoned like dungeons? Or are you making things up?

And why was the wepon different they removed map completion from the wepon from wvw and made it more of a “buy” thing why would they just do the same thing as wvw map completion as raids boss fights when you will be able to simply buy your way though it. This is the same problem with legendary weapons and keeped them from becoming legendary. Nothing was learn and they are making the same errors over.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

Where does it need it? Fractals, dungeons, world boss events, shall I keep going? It was over performing in all of those environments. They most likely didn’t care before because, well open world and dungeons. However, with the damage that eles could do, they over shadowed everything, not just in raids.

Jski.6180:

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

I’m pretty comfortable in saying that they won’t remove the requirements for raids from this Legendary armor set. And the reason to not do it, was because Anet sold it to us as the ultimate raid reward.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

If you think raids are a new thing, you haven’t been paying attention. Raids have been in the making for at least half of this games life (iirc Raids were announced close to 2 years ago and before then they were already being worked on, we just didn’t have confirmation before then. The closest we had to confirmation that they were looking for a lead raid designer).

Do you have any proof that Raids aren’t going to last and that they will become abandoned like dungeons? Or are you making things up?

And why was the wepon different they removed map completion from the wepon from wvw and made it more of a “buy” thing why would they just do the same thing as wvw map completion as raids boss fights when you will be able to simply buy your way though it. This is the same problem with legendary weapons and keeped them from becoming legendary. Nothing was learn and they are making the same errors over.

Probably because it never made sense to have wvw tied to map completion? Having to kill bosses to prove mastery, or at least completion of the target content, makes sense. Legendary armor is raid armor, it makes sense to have to do things associated with raids.

Fatalyz.7168:

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

1st off the game is very far from a capitalist design.

2nd that is a crappy game design, because the solution is to not play the content, and incentivizes the most explotive farm currently available as the way to advance.

Which is why capitalism is a crappy design for this type of game. Capitalism focuses on the most efficient money making technique, where as adventure games, generally want to focus on adventure.

I’m not saying no one should sell or buy runs, but that is not part of the game design, it isnt a feasible answer for bringing legendaries to the non Raid population. Its a work around that some people are willing to do, not a feature.

Just like coming in to my house through the back window is not a feature of the house’s design, Nor would it be an excuse for poorly designed front door that only 5% of the population wants to go through.

There are some valid argumenets for why maybe having a requirement in raids makes a type of sense, the fact that people buy runs isnt really a strong contender there.

The difference between your back window example and buying runs. One is illegal (trespassing, breaking and entering, etc) the other has been allowed by the developers.

And on the poorly designed front door, if you are trying to keep out all but 5%, then that door achieved it’s goal.

its not illegal to come in through my own back window. And if a dude tries to sell me a house that i specifically cant get into the front door, but i can use the back window, im going to say that is a kittenty design for the house you are trying to sell me.

Point is, selling runs is not a game design choice, its a work around. its not illegal, but its not how developers expected people to access the content. Therefore people arguing that it is poor game design dont have to consider that element, because it is not part of the game design.

If you want to say raids being required for legendary armor is fine, there are some reasons, grey market selling of runs is not really one them.

While true that that may not be how developers intended for the armor to be obtained, it doesn’t nullify it as a valid way to obtain the armor. You may not agree with it, that is fine. The point being, Anet allows it, so it is a valid option to obtaining the gear, if you can’t raid to obtain it.

Its normal that if i want to get in my house, and the front door sucks, that i will use my back window. But that doesnt mean i wont demand they fix or redesign my front door.

Yes paying people is a way people can get around having to do raid, no that is not a good game design solution to the problem, and people who design the game can expect people to try get them to come up with a better game design.

They may already have plans for this, but dont expect people to be satisfied with an unsupported gamble, that involves not playing the game as intended.

Well to prove mastery and that you are a truly legendary player, a master of the game I could argue the last requirement should be to achieve diamond legend rank in WvW and place in the top 10 on the PvP leader boards. As long as we are dealing with exclusivity and kitten why stop half way? Lets make this armor truly exclusive and legendary, not the hey I can stand in a green circle or buy paths armor.

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

Where does it need it? Fractals, dungeons, world boss events, shall I keep going? It was over performing in all of those environments. They most likely didn’t care before because, well open world and dungeons. However, with the damage that eles could do, they over shadowed everything, not just in raids.

Jski.6180:

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

I’m pretty comfortable in saying that they won’t remove the requirements for raids from this Legendary armor set. And the reason to not do it, was because Anet sold it to us as the ultimate raid reward.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

If you think raids are a new thing, you haven’t been paying attention. Raids have been in the making for at least half of this games life (iirc Raids were announced close to 2 years ago and before then they were already being worked on, we just didn’t have confirmation before then. The closest we had to confirmation that they were looking for a lead raid designer).

Do you have any proof that Raids aren’t going to last and that they will become abandoned like dungeons? Or are you making things up?

And why was the wepon different they removed map completion from the wepon from wvw and made it more of a “buy” thing why would they just do the same thing as wvw map completion as raids boss fights when you will be able to simply buy your way though it. This is the same problem with legendary weapons and keeped them from becoming legendary. Nothing was learn and they are making the same errors over.

Probably because it never made sense to have wvw tied to map completion? Having to kill bosses to prove mastery, or at least completion of the target content, makes sense. Legendary armor is raid armor, it makes sense to have to do things associated with raids.

To the wepon you had to map completion in wvw. Legendary armor IS legendary armor there is raid armor and skins that different.

Mr Pin.6728:

Well to prove mastery and that you are a truly legendary player, a master of the game I could argue the last requirement should be to achieve diamond legend rank in WvW and place in the top 10 on the PvP leader boards. As long as we are dealing with exclusivity and kitten why stop half way? Lets make this armor truly exclusive and legendary, not the hey I can stand in a green circle or buy paths armor.

diamond legend rank means nothing in WvW but time spent. Do you really want more karma farming and node flipping arguments cause people trying to farm their legs?

phys.7689:

Mr Pin.6728:

Well to prove mastery and that you are a truly legendary player, a master of the game I could argue the last requirement should be to achieve diamond legend rank in WvW and place in the top 10 on the PvP leader boards. As long as we are dealing with exclusivity and kitten why stop half way? Lets make this armor truly exclusive and legendary, not the hey I can stand in a green circle or buy paths armor.

diamond legend rank means nothing in WvW but time spent. Do you really want more karma farming and node flipping arguments cause people trying to farm their legs?

Diamond realty a hard rank to get to. You realty have to actively put work into rank up. Most wvw players do not though wvw players want to have fun fighting players not wasting there time taking objectives.