Guild Wars 2

HoT delivered everything they said it would. Word for word. That some people don’t like it or parts of it, or that there are bugs are irrelevant of the fact that everyone got what they paid for.

There was no promised timeline of when new legendaries would be released post-HoT, only that it would ship with 3 (which it did) and the rest would come eventually. Even if they come 8 years from now they will still be “on time” and delivering on promised content. This doom and gloom talk is ridiculous, mainly because you all agreed to the ToS & EULA which gives them full rights to modify/remove access to any content at any time but also because you’re complaining about not getting exactly what you were promised when you got exactly what was promised.

Any legal action would be a waste of your money as the onus is on you to prove that Anet deceived you intentionally and took your money knowing they weren’t going to give you the product as advertised, or to somehow prove that the ToS & EULA don’t apply to you.

A link keeps popping up about the legendary weapons, but even it explicitly states that HoT will ship with 3, and the rest will come eventually with no timeline given for when that eventually is or how that eventually will be delivered. Only that HoT will give you exactly THREE. When you paid for HoT you paid for those three and none others. You did not pay for non-existent future content.

No one was ripped off.

No one was lied to.

obastable.5231:

HoT delivered everything they said it would. Word for word. That some people don’t like it or parts of it, or that there are bugs are irrelevant of the fact that everyone got what they paid for.

There was no promised timeline of when new legendaries would be released post-HoT, only that it would ship with 3 (which it did) and the rest would come eventually. Even if they come 8 years from now they will still be “on time” and delivering on promised content. This doom and gloom talk is ridiculous, mainly because you all agreed to the ToS & EULA which gives them full rights to modify/remove access to any content at any time but also because you’re complaining about not getting exactly what you were promised when you got exactly what was promised.

Any legal action would be a waste of your money as the onus is on you to prove that Anet deceived you intentionally and took your money knowing they weren’t going to give you the product as advertised, or to somehow prove that the ToS & EULA don’t apply to you.

A link keeps popping up about the legendary weapons, but even it explicitly states that HoT will ship with 3, and the rest will come eventually with no timeline given for when that eventually is or how that eventually will be delivered. Only that HoT will give you exactly THREE. When you paid for HoT you paid for those three and none others. You did not pay for non-existent future content.

No one was ripped off.

No one was lied to.

Really? Where are the guild anthems and fractal leader boards? Or the additional masteries (like bark tearing mastery) we got introduced to.
And for the legy weapons – there’s more text than just “when it’s ready”.
Think before you write a wall of text.
They literally sold us an expansion that is lacking content and features they promised we would get.

Xehanort.7034:

are..you serious? Anet straight up LIED about the new legendary weapon releases. They said, and i quote, “we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game.” It’s been FIVE MONTHS since HoT dropped, and they’ve given us THREE. It’s been what, TWO MONTHS since they released the first set of weapons? And now, they’re adding ONE new weapon (not even mentioning the fact that only TWO CLASSES can even USE shortbow), and then say that they cant be bothered to make any more, and instead want to focus on the LIVING STORY? How about anet actually produces the content that we PAID FOR?

And yet, here we are. Still getting black lion skins, gliders and outfits that they’re proudly selling in the gem shop. It sure looks like they’re down on manpower. Anet, and by extension, GW2, is nothing short of a joke now.

tbh, i’m pretty sure this is grounds for suing them for false advertisement.

All of this ^

This is beyond ridiculous. This moves into the realm of fraud and false advertising. I do agree…I’d be amazed if this isn’t grounds for a class action lawsuit. You can only hide behind the premise that a MMO is an ever changing environment …to a certain extent. I’m pretty sure they just crossed the line. They literally used the promise of 16 new legendary weapons, the new precursor crafting process, the new legendary back piece and its crafting process, and legendary armor….as primary selling points for this expansion. They also used the Chronomancer and the Revenant as poster children for selling the expansion…then they proceed to gut both of them a few months after release. Add this to the way they were pushing pre-orders…this is extremely bad business (slimy, dirty, disreputable, criminal). This is beyond the point where a refund is required….they can’t refund our time and effort. This is at the point where I want legal and monetary satisfaction. They are no better than con artists ripping people off. I could give two kittens about living story…that’s not the content this expansion was advertised and ultimately sold on…I want what was advertised and what I paid for based on that advertisement. No wonder they have developers and directors bailing out on them…they are trying not to get caught up in this mess.

I also agree that they seem to have no shortage of time/resources when it comes to gem store crap. Essentially, all the legendary items are are skins with additional visual effects. The only differences from gem store items are the collections behind obtaining them. If they can’t get the collections right, then scrap the collections. I’m not trying to see that ridiculous pre-HoT precursor rng drop rate though. I’ve never seen a precursor drop in 3+ years of playing this game.

To everyone saying they don’t care and would rather have more content, in short, you’re all dumb. If you let them get away with breaking their promises on things that were advertised as being a part of Heart of Thorns, then they will just do it again, only next time it will be about something you actually do give a kitten about.

At this point I don’t even care about legendaries, I care that it was part of the expectations of what I and many others paid for as advertised, then suddenly we are told it’s not Happening.

Anet you keep making terrible decisions.

Your decisions to ruin dungeons and “focus on fractals” even though fractals has had next to no changes aside from making them more casual was awful.

Your decision to add " a new pvp mode" was essentially just the legacy of the foefire map with 2 gates and added doorbreakers and champions. Adding NPC’s to pvp is just asinine.

Your decision to give people 4 maps instead of delivering on the scale of what an expansion should have been was equally as bad as the extremely short and anti climactic storyline of HOT.

Your decison to add Esports and balancing classes around PvP has gone over terribly.

kitten at this point anet just release the legendaries, we don’t need the stupid precursor journies, you owe the people SOMETHING.

Spira.4578:

evilunderling.9265:

but the reality is that the live team’s work would end up even further behind due to having to spend time bringing the expansion guys properly up to speed on what they’re doing

Same goes for the legendary weapon team… It doesn’t matter where they pull the devs from.

It’s fewer people, and they’re already on the live team, so they’re a lot closer to being up to speed. It would take maybe a month to break even — which is actually halfway useful — instead of the best part of a year.

I am no lawyer, but at least here to have the secretary(a law trained professional, not a typist) of a judge to just look at your case and see if it is court worthy or not takes more than a worth of a fraction of 50 or 100 bucks.

You will probably be stuck with an intermediary at the very best who attempt to haggle a solution between you and the other party, which seems useless in this case.
If enough of these suing attempts with the same reasoning come rolling in, a court will probably be made over it to see what this is all about. I am pretty sure most judges have no clue about laws regarding virtual goods, so this may take some time.

If 6 devs that were working on Legendaries are going to be so useful to LS3, then the 6 devs from raids should also be moved over to LS3.

Raids can wait. They are played by a small fraction of the playerbase compared to LS, and LS3 is the priority.

When all the things promised are caught up they can go back to making raids.

obastable.5231:

HoT delivered everything they said it would. Word for word. That some people don’t like it or parts of it, or that there are bugs are irrelevant of the fact that everyone got what they paid for.

There was no promised timeline of when new legendaries would be released post-HoT, only that it would ship with 3 (which it did) and the rest would come eventually. Even if they come 8 years from now they will still be “on time” and delivering on promised content. This doom and gloom talk is ridiculous, mainly because you all agreed to the ToS & EULA which gives them full rights to modify/remove access to any content at any time but also because you’re complaining about not getting exactly what you were promised when you got exactly what was promised.

Any legal action would be a waste of your money as the onus is on you to prove that Anet deceived you intentionally and took your money knowing they weren’t going to give you the product as advertised, or to somehow prove that the ToS & EULA don’t apply to you.

A link keeps popping up about the legendary weapons, but even it explicitly states that HoT will ship with 3, and the rest will come eventually with no timeline given for when that eventually is or how that eventually will be delivered. Only that HoT will give you exactly THREE. When you paid for HoT you paid for those three and none others. You did not pay for non-existent future content.

No one was ripped off.

No one was lied to.

Even if they some how manage to avoid legal consequences, for the dirtiest and most disreputable business practices I have ever seen in the gaming industry, I can 100% promise that I will never spend another penny on any product they (or any of their affiliates) ever produce again. Any time I ever see anything mentioned about them, I will be bringing this up. I may just be one customer, but I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in this. I hate being lied to, cheated, and disrespected like this. I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in that respect either. This is way bigger than the typical MMO reserved right to change content/product…this is fraud and false advertisement….even if it comes down to them being able to hide behind technicalities. This would be the biggest brand damaging blow yet.

Legendaries == content

The story/collection/grind is all content.

its equal to

PvP
WvWvW
PvE
Raids
Dungeons/Fractals

Legendaries might not appeal to some, but that is equally the case for all the other types of content.

If you don’t care for legendaries, so what?
There are people that don’t care for Living story.

Just think if they would scrap Living story, because they want to work on gemstore skins more.

How can you agree to them scrapping out promised content?

I just tried BDO and bought it.
Sorry Anet, I’m out,

Kappa

Torolan.5816:

I am no lawyer, but at least here to have the secretary(a law trained professional, not a typist) of a judge to just look at your case and see if it is court worthy or not takes more than a worth of a fraction of 50 or 100 bucks.

If someone really wants to take ANet to court for a refund, there are specialist courts that can handle it. Don’t get why they wouldn’t just cry to their bank and get a chargeback done though.

Words are just that, Mike. You can come on here & say all the right things about how you’re working to get the game going in the right direction.

Say all you want about how you’re going to start delivering content, LS3, etc.

But it’s all just words until we see it actually added to the game.

If the last 3 years have taught me anything, it’s that.

Another failure by Anet. Since HoT it has been one disappointment after the next. That’s all I’m going to write because they clearly don’t care what their customers want or provide in terms of feedback.

This morning I was speaking to a friend of mine who here in the UK is a civil liberties barrister while he is no expert in this type of thing, he does state that the law in the UK has the ‘Consumer Rights Act 2015’ that basically states what Anet have done is illegal in the UK. And a claim can be made in a small claims court. So anyone in the UK that wants a refund you have a good case against Anet.

I will also give my feelings …
Guild Wars 2 was a beautiful game … Then there was HoT.
For me, HoT was the most disastrous extension I’ve seen in a MMO.
– Dungeons dead.
– Fractals = 2 randoms, 2 molten boss, 6 swampland.
– PvP unbalanced.
– WvW dead.
– Raids … 3 boss then 5 boss 1/2.
– Open world = 4 borings maps with nerf (TD Chak Gerent).
– Masteries = farm farm and farm, not funny.
– Living world was a joke, another dragon killed effortlessly (cf Zhaitan).
– Legendary backpack still not in game (PvE).
– Legendary armor still not available yet because of raids.
– Legendary weapon = 4 weapons and 12 cancelled.

Maybe this list (unfinished) may explain why my friend list is empty increasingly …
I no longer recognize the company that created Guild Wars 1, where is Anet we liked?

Stop release gliders skins in the Black Lion Trading Company (there is still a craft system in your game by the way …) and listen to your community.
We all know that you are losing players, NCsoft too isn’t he ?
For years I defended Anet on several forums, but today I can not …
After all these years of playing Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2, I choose to trust an other mmo.
I’m really sad to leave Guild Wars 2, but like many people, this is not the kind of game that fits me anymore.
Are you proud of the current game ? This is the game you wanted ?
HoT killed Guild Wars 2 and I will not take the risk of buying the next expansion.

PS : Sorry for my english, there are surely mistakes

Yes to more story content. Its what keeps me playing. Mindless grinding and farming pushes me away. Also raids are too tedious for me to play. I want to progress and feel once again that Tyria is actually alive and things are happening. There should be more Marionette / Nightmare tower style events and more frequently. That makes the game feel like its a living world.

And if you have to work on more stuff that employees can handle, just hire part time freelancers or something and give more jobs at the same time. CV’s for future coders and artists. Everyone wins.

My “only” complain is that this content is not something you decided to add and then changed your mind. The problem is that this content was a big part of the content announced with the expansion Heart of Thorns. Enought content is still not released/delayed. But cancelling it indefinitelly is beyond that in my opinion. Its not that I dont understand the situation you are in right now, by which this decission is only logical. Is that you shouldnt have announced it if it was in such an early stage to begin with.

ozma.3498:

Berelious.3290:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Hardly. You paid for access to it. Do you get it if you didnt pay? No. In pretty much ANY mmo in existence, you’ll find that there’s language in the EULA/ToC that amounts to “you paid only for access to the service/product,” not “you paid for something you THINK you should get.”

edit: In fact, from Section 2.a from the gw2 EULA:

You further acknowledge that Your full or partial access to Content, including one or more Message Boards, Teams or Items is conditioned upon Your compliance with the provisions of this agreement and the Rules of Conduct. ArenaNet may modify, remove, or add Content in its reasonable discretion.

Bolding my own to highlight the point soooooooooooooooo many of you people miss.

edit2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ for any of you who think I’m lying.

Thank you Aiden, I was looking for this myself to post.

One thing that’s amusing is when private companies think they can rewrite the law by putting stuff in their terms and conditions. Ultimately, consumer laws are above ArenaNet’s terms and conditions, and ArenaNet will still be liable to abide by them regardless of what they put in their T&C documents.

In the past it’s been a bit of a grey area due to it being a digital purchase, but that changed a few weeks before HoT launched. Digital goods are now covered too. Anyway, I’ll see on Tuesday when I contact Citizen’s Advice/Trading Standards about it. They are the actual authority on the matter (in the UK at least), not ArenaNet.

This^

Reasonable discretion is not going to save them from the law…when the issue is literally selling a product…advertising what is in the box….and then you buy it/take it home/open it…and what you advertised is not in the box. They then tell you it will never be in the box and that you can’t get your money back. There’s not that much reasonable discretion in the world. They can put that in their terms and conditions all they want…just like you said…the law trumps some arbitrary excuses you had typed up in fine print.

ODB.6891:

Even if they some how manage to avoid legal consequences, for the dirtiest and most disreputable business practices I have ever seen in the gaming industry.

If you think they’re shady kittens and want to boycott them? Whatever. But this? “dirtiest and most disreputable business practices… in the gaming industry.”?

You are absolutely full of it.

ANet ballsed up. Everyone knows it. They admit it. There is no malice here, and nothing to even suggest any.

They never said that you can’t get your money back, and even if they did, any bank would happily process a chargeback for you.

The disrespect coming from the tone of your posts is so real Mo, I have no idea why you’d think this tone is ok? How you expect anyone sane to care for whatever you ship however far off in the future after this, I don’t know. I certainly don’t care. I’ve pretty much stopped caring when I read Evan’s equally condescending posts in the pvp subforum and when you pushed any actual new content to summer. With this announcement and the way you have handled it, any last bit of care for this game I had and any trust I had in this company is dead in the water. Nothing you say will make us ‘feel better’ you say? Like we’re children who were just told we’re not getting the promised pony for Christmas? Fact of the matter is, we’re not children disappointed in a lack of free presents love, we’re paying customers. We paid you to deliver us these items, you took our money and you failed to deliver them. Its not about making us ‘feel better’, it’s about compensating us for your failure to deliver promised and paid for goods. When you do something that feels like you’ve just taken our money and then laughed in our faces, I don’t see how you expect us to feel goodwill towards your company. Worse, I don’t see how you expect us to pay for another expansion or your gem store fluff when you’ve actually just taken our money and then refused to deliver what we paid for. And it’s all delivered in a kitteny, disrespectful tone at that. I mean heck, you even tried to tell some people how they’re supposed to feel about HoT. Honestly… This is just wrong.

Raxzor.5946:

This morning I was speaking to a friend of mine who here in the UK is a civil liberties barrister while he is no expert in this type of thing, he does state that the law in the UK has the ‘Consumer Rights Act 2015’ that basically states what Anet have done is illegal in the UK. And a claim can be made in a small claims court. So anyone in the UK that wants a refund you have a good case against Anet.

I’d be very interested to hear more about this. My intuition is the same as your friends, but it’s not an area I know much about either. People who are looking into it- keep us posted

MashMash.1645:

If 6 devs that were working on Legendaries are going to be so useful to LS3, then the 6 devs from raids should also be moved over to LS3.

Raids can wait. They are played by a small fraction of the playerbase compared to LS, and LS3 is the priority.

When all the things promised are caught up they can go back to making raids.

The difference between the raid team and the LW team is that the raid team is capable of actually releasing content in something resembling a reasonable amount of time.

Sir Mad.1092:

I could go on. But doesn’t that sound familiar to you? It’s as if I was describing HoT. Yet, 6 months later (if I remember correctly), Anet delivered us an expansion that was applauded by everyone: Nightfall. That’s the one reason I still have faith in them. But I probably won’t anymore if I’m disappointed with the next LS / expac.

Nightfall wasn’t without its own problems

I’m hoping the long term sustainability plans includes the formation of a new dungeon team. Currently, it’s an embarrassment with their current state.

skullfaerie.7203:

I’d be very interested to hear more about this. My intuition is the same as your friends, but it’s not an area I know much about either. People who are looking into it- keep us posted

If you want a refund, just ask for a refund. If you don’t get one, ask your bank for a chargeback. Talking about court cases at this point is pointless, unless you think you could get more than a refund out of a court, which would never happen.

ODB.6891:

Reasonable discretion is not going to save them from the law…when the issue is literally selling a product…advertising what is in the box….and then you buy it/take it home/open it…and what you advertised is not in the box.

At best, you’ll get a refund. Wow, big scary thing that ANet needs to be ‘saved’ from there.

…easy solution:

~* EMPLOY 6 MORE PEOPLE *~

evilunderling.9265:

skullfaerie.7203:

I’d be very interested to hear more about this. My intuition is the same as your friends, but it’s not an area I know much about either. People who are looking into it- keep us posted

You should be able to get a refund on the basis that the product you were sold is not entirely as described and is no longer acceptable to you, but you’re not going to get anyone jailed or fined here, and you’d be expected to exhaust all other avenues of discussion (including crying to your bank for a chargeback) before going to court.

The thing is, as I see it, most people, including myself don’t ~want~ to go that far (either to their bank or anywhere else). Anet should be offering compensation to begin with, as a gesture of goodwill for their outright failure to deliver things we in good faith paid them for. But they have not done so, which is disgusting. They clearly feel that they are being perfectly reasonable and are completely safe from any repercussions. So maybe they need to feel the pressure. Be this through the law, bad press, or customer outrage.

So we can just add the new legendary weapons to the long list of HoT disappointments. It’s honestly getting really sad, I cant understand how things can just seem to get worse and worse.

PvP is an unbalanced spamfest … but don’t worry in 6 months you’ll get an update that fixes nothing!
WvW … still waiting
PvE saw HoT give us 6 hours of painfully awful story followed by a year with no updates! Oh and 3.5 repetitive buggy maps.
Fractals is a joke
Dungeons we’re horrifically ignored then murdered
Raids are great, gj to the 5 of you!

The sad part for me is that years ago I would recommend gw to anyone, but now I warn them that they’re wasting their time on it.

Hopefully the future is a better place for gw

Zetsumei.4975:

You realise the scrapped wvw overhaul and legendaries most likely never existed in the first place? Its one of the biggest cons in the mmo industry this year.

To still believe their bluffs and PR nonsense, you either havent been playing long enough or have stockholm syndrome.

This^

This person also took the red pill! Open your eyes Neo!

Dear Mo

I would greatly appreciate you taking a moment to read my thoughts below:

I believe that HoT sales was reported to be “disappointing”.
I currently cant see Xpac2 sales being anything other than far fewer still, should you ship it without bringing your customer base back on side.

70 people working on a product and only half that number trying to rebuild the falling demand for it seems a risky plan.

I would rather hear that a bulk of the Xpac2 team will be ensuring we, the customer, is being treated fairly by receiving both the promised Legendarys as well as the eagerly awaited LS3.

Also, if resource capacity is the issue (as well as Amazon sniping up your talent), perhaps some heavy investment into recruitment drives is in order. The width of your ambition is not so wide, seemingly its just the volume your applying to it that is causing a paper thin effect.

I had spent thousands in the store up until the recent decline in quality of both content and support. Much of my gaming time is now spent in Black Dessert. While I hope to see a turnaround in GW2, the current road map and strategy for your game is not giving me much hope.

My advice and hopes as a customer would be a reply post to confirm reallocation of Xpac2 resource to further guarantee delivery of a content rich LS3 along with confirmation that delivery of the missing Legendarys (and other missing HoT related hype) will land in good time before we even hear about asking for expansion preorders.

evilunderling.9265:

skullfaerie.7203:

I’d be very interested to hear more about this. My intuition is the same as your friends, but it’s not an area I know much about either. People who are looking into it- keep us posted

If you want a refund, just ask for a refund. If you don’t get one, ask your bank for a chargeback. Talking about court cases at this point is pointless, unless you think you could get more than a refund out of a court, which would never happen.

ODB.6891:

Reasonable discretion is not going to save them from the law…when the issue is literally selling a product…advertising what is in the box….and then you buy it/take it home/open it…and what you advertised is not in the box.

At best, you’ll get a refund. Wow, big scary thing that ANet needs to be ‘saved’ from there.

Not sure why your nose is so brown about this, but yeah….if enough of their customers are getting refunds…that is a big scary thing to their apparently non existent bottom line.

ODB.6891:

Zetsumei.4975:

You realise the scrapped wvw overhaul and legendaries most likely never existed in the first place? Its one of the biggest cons in the mmo industry this year.

To still believe their bluffs and PR nonsense, you either havent been playing long enough or have stockholm syndrome.

This^

This person also took the red pill! Open your eyes Neo!

I took the same pill.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Obviously I go into this knowing that some players will be very upset. That’s why it’s such a tough decision.

Ankdarkwolf, Darkmikau, Ballads, Spira, Caerbannog, Cysgod, you each posted a variant of an accusation I’ve seen many times over the past few months on the forums, something along the lines of, “AN shipped half an expansion with HoT.” I take issue with that. We shipped a new region full of content, a new mastery system, gliding, guild halls, a new profession, nine new elite specializations for existing professions, and more. Then we shipped precursor journeys for existing legendaries, and said, “We’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates.” While I fully get that you’re disappointed today, this is not about us shipping half an expansion pack.

Mo

Wow, the disdain for customers who provided feedback is rather shocking. Every company that I buy something from basically begs and hounds me to fill out surveys telling them what I thought of the product, presumably to improve customer satisfaction with the product. Can you seriously imagine telling a candy bar company, for example, “the candy bar tasted funny and the package was way too small for the price” and having them come back with: “I take issue with that, it tastes fine and is big enough”.

I run my own company and understanding your customers is crucial. I can’t imagine just brushing aside (or arguing with!) repeated feedback that said my customers did not think that they got acceptable value from me. One criticism that has been leveled repeatedly is that development of the game was occurring in an echo chamber within Anet. No, you don’t have to listen to every suggestion, but you darned well better understand why they buy/play. The unmitigated disaster that is the current state of WvW BLs shows what happens when you don’t understand why people play WvW.

The move to not deliver an advertised feature of a product is deceptive advertising. I know the Europeans take consumer protection laws rather seriously and I’m sure the FTC will be notified by a few folks too. This might not turn out to be the cost saving measure as expected.

Evil Seabass.5214:

Ahhh, so now we know the real reason Colin jumped ship….

… or the reason he was shown the plank, and someone else is left to clean up after him. Just a maybe, no idea either way, but I know these kind of decisions don’t just happen.

I think it is a good decision. They need to make HoT more attractive to normal players whilst they are still here.

And if you ever wonder why the official bods don’t post much on here, just look at some of the rude responses they get when they do.

CJay.7023:

Hey Mike, you said “Indefinitely suspend” – does this mean that, in a perfect Tyria, if all goes well with the LS3 & Expac2 progress, we may still get the rest of the Legendary Weapons — Eventually? The way you worded it implies it’s scrapped, never ever again will we get these things.

Thanks c:

An indefinite suspension means that an activity is put on hold until further notice.
It isn’t canceled or scrapped from the game. But because indefinite suspensions require confirmations to bring back, you can think of it like Guild Halls back before HoT came out. It might come back to being developed, it might not, but it’s all according to directives and priorities.

Personally, I’m okay with this. It’s likely to be my bias since I am working on H.O.P.E, but really the grass simply looks greener over here. It has proven to be both an incredible investment on the crafting material end for someone in a three-man guild that’s finally finished upgrading the ten Guild Enhancements (go us!) as well as pretty tedious for the things it’s making me get. I enjoyed crafting level 1 as it took me into mini-dungeons of the game that I’ve never seen before, but level 2 so far has just been mats mats mats more mats much mats such mats very mats wow.

If it takes this long to make a journey for one weapon then yes, by all means, reallocate resources and make some cool stuff happen sooner. I prefer my material collecting to be an afterthought rather than a primary reason for me to log in, but between guild building and HOPE, it’s become all I ever do.

A lot of this post is fanboy nonsense, but this bit in particular caught my eye as it is factually incorrect:

obastable.5231:

There was no promised timeline of when new legendaries would be released post-HoT, only that it would ship with 3 (which it did)

No, it didn’t. The 3 legendaries were released nearly a month after HoT on Nov 17th. Full of bugs, too, mind you. To be fair, a lot of people have got this wrong.

obastable.5231:

and the rest would come eventually. Even if they come 8 years from now they will still be “on time” and delivering on promised content.

8 years is not ‘regular intervals’. 2 years from now isn’t ‘regular intervals’.

ODB.6891:

Not sure why your nose is so brown about this, but yeah….if enough of their customers are getting refunds…that is a big scary thing to their apparently non existent bottom line.

Disagreeing with you is not the same thing as brown-nosing.

You think ANet are a bunch of lying cheats, I think they’re a bunch of incompetent hacks. You want to see the game crash and burn so that you can gloat and make people miserable, I want to see ANet get their kitten together so that I might one day have a good game to come back to.

If people get refunds, so what? It doesn’t affect my bottom line, and if the game crashes and burns, I have plenty of other games to play. It does, however, mean fewer people kittening on the forums and making everyone else miserable, so it’s actually a win on that front.

MashMash.1645:

If 6 devs that were working on Legendaries are going to be so useful to LS3, then the 6 devs from raids should also be moved over to LS3.

Raids can wait. They are played by a small fraction of the playerbase compared to LS, and LS3 is the priority.

When all the things promised are caught up they can go back to making raids.

I’d be interested to see the numbers/statistics behind people who participate in raids vs people who own legendaries. Some justification I have seen is that only a small percentage of players own legendaries. I’d like to see how it stacks up the percentage playing the raids.

Really? Out of all the new legendary weapons to choose from and short bow is it? One of the weapons that is least used by most classes (only 2 use it and both in medium) is the one being put out then and then nothing else “indefinitely.” At the very least you could have made the next legendary one that most classes use, even if it would have taken a bit longer. The sword? The shield? Heck even the greatsword would have been fine because at least most classes would be able to use it. I think this is what bugs me most of all. A weapon that most classes do not use.

evilunderling.9265:

ODB.6891:

Even if they some how manage to avoid legal consequences, for the dirtiest and most disreputable business practices I have ever seen in the gaming industry.

If you think they’re shady kittens and want to boycott them? Whatever. But this? “dirtiest and most disreputable business practices… in the gaming industry.”?

You are absolutely full of it.

ANet ballsed up. Everyone knows it. They admit it. There is no malice here, and nothing to even suggest any.

They never said that you can’t get your money back, and even if they did, any bank would happily process a chargeback for you.

Your brown nosing knows no end apparently. You aren’t getting a cookie for sucking up. You can bury your head in the sand or bend over…whatever. I won’t. You can try to ignore their track record up to this point…I won’t. There is no lack of publicly available information about their lack of trustworthiness…especially when it comes to all things HoT so far. The fact that they had to be pressured into refunds for hot pre-orders. The fact they had to be pressured into the inclusion of a free character slot option with the inclusion of a new playable class for the expansion. The fact that the primary advertisements for HoT were for content that they have decided to just cancel…6 months after selling us the product. The fact that they have said absolutely nothing about refunds or any form of compensation. These are adult issues. These are business issues. These are legal issues. These are respect for their customers issues. If you can’t understand that, then you need to stop posting. This type of concern isn’t isolated to just one industry. If I ran any type of business, and advertised a product indicating specific things would be included. You came into my store, read the advertisement, and purchased based on said advertisement. Then you went home and found out said advertised items were not in the box. You contacted me and I simply told you that I decided not to include them for whatever (irrelevant to you) excuses…and just stood there smiling at you…with no offer for compensation or refund…would you feel you had been treated with respect as a paying customer? We all know the answer is no…therefore you are absolutely full of it. It doesn’t matter if they came out and admitted it now. I could care less about transparency, this far after the fact, with no satisfactory action taken to resolve the grievance. This was a conclusion we were already coming to on our own…many forum posts about this already. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this was anything other than yet another PR recovery move. Yes, this was dirty and disreputable. You think they just realized this was a problem yesterday? You think they weren’t having these issues with the legendary weapon process prior to releasing HoT? You don’t remember the outcry on the forums due to lack of information on what would actually be included in HoT for the pre-order purchase price? That was the time when transparency was needed….not 6 months after they sold it to us. That is dirty and disreputable. As far as requesting a refund from our banks…what bank is going to refund an e-purchase from 6 months ago? Why should we even have to go that route to dispute it from our bank. You don’t speak for ANET or our banking institutions. If ANET is trustworthy…they would be offering us the refund…just like any other reputable company with a product recall.

Amurond.4590:

I’d be interested to see the numbers/statistics behind people who participate in raids vs people who own legendaries. Some justification I have seen is that only a small percentage of players own legendaries. I’d like to see how it stacks up the percentage playing the raids.

Raids benefit more than just the people who run them.

Not to say that I’m happy that the new legendary weapons aren’t coming – I am disappointed. But to say the advertising was deceptive is incorrect. To be deceptive they had to knowingly advertise something they ACTUALLY knew wasn’t going to be done.

On listening to customers.:
ANeT, though not always implementing what we want, such as WvW improvements/overhaul, dungeon changes/additions, and PVP adjustments, they have addressed multiple customer desires -
1. Flying in all of PVE
2. Bank tab expansion
3. Shared slots
4. Account bound Ascended armor and legendary weapons – soul bound before
5. Account bound tools and salvage kits – soul bound before
6. Stronger world bosses – remember killing Teq in a couple of minutes?
7. Better loot from world bosses – now with guaranteed rares at least
8. Changing WvW Rest back to Friday like was called for after HoT changed it to Saturday. The change to Saturday was hotly contested by WvWers and we got our Friday back.
9. And there’s a lot more they listened to and implemented.
Remember, they can’t always do everything we want them to. They prioritize what can be done.

On the subject at hand: 2 Suggestions and Compromises -
1. Make Legendary Armor attainable outside the raids – Create an alternative way to make it. Considering that each piece needs to be made that’s 18 separate legendary items.

2. Create skin recipes for the Legendary Weapon concepts that are not complete. In this case you create one of the old versions and then obtain the recipe to skin it to your desire. Link the recipes to something like the dungeons we have to farm for the currency for the dungeon merchants.

Finally, calm down, everyone. Things have a way of working out in the end. “Suspend Indefinitely” is not the same as “Cancel Completely”. Though not as promising “Delay a few Months”. Mike, thank you for being more open on the decisions being made at ANeT. I’m pretty sure ANeT is trying their best to make GW2 a lasting and enjoyable game.

Amurond.4590:

A lot of this post is fanboy nonsense, but this bit in particular caught my eye as it is factually incorrect:

obastable.5231:

There was no promised timeline of when new legendaries would be released post-HoT, only that it would ship with 3 (which it did)

No, it didn’t. The 3 legendaries were released nearly a month after HoT on Nov 17th. Full of bugs, too, mind you. To be fair, a lot of people have got this wrong.

obastable.5231:

and the rest would come eventually. Even if they come 8 years from now they will still be “on time” and delivering on promised content.

8 years is not ‘regular intervals’. 2 years from now isn’t ‘regular intervals’.

Are you mixing up the definitions of the words frequent and regular? Once every 2 years is regular, though not frequent. I think you want frequent releases of new legendary weapons, not regular releases. If they release the next set in November 2017 and the next one after that in November 2019 we will have regular intervals. The frequency will be very low, but that is another matter.

And don’t get me wrong, even though I do support more work going to the Living World, I don’t think it should come at the expense of legendary weapons. We’ve been promised 16 and whether you want legendaries or not, they should live up to that promise. Like many other people have stated, take devs away from the team working on the next expansion. I can imagine them not doing it because they don’t want to repeat mistakes they made with HoT, so they put a lot of people to work on it in an early phase to prevent that. Which is completely fine and understandable, IF they had fixed the current problems first. That’s where the real problem lies. But let’s wait and see what the April update brings and how that addresses other problems with HoT that have been pointed out to them.

It seems like the holdup here is the legendary journey part. If the volume of gem store weapons tells us anything, it’s that the physical design of the weapon is the easy part. It’s building the precursor journey that’s slogging up the whole process. I recall them saying that this delayed them on the initial release of precursor crafting as well.

So for all the legendaries that were designed but the journeys are incomplete: can we have these in the game as non-legendaries? Tone down the intended effects and put them in the game either as prestigious MF recipes (like Vision of the Mists) or as endgame unlockable rewards, or both. Surely this implementation would require less manpower?

These weapons can still be put into the game, can still take a bit of doing to acquire, and can still be visually impressive. I would much rather this option than knowing that there are a bunch of unfinished weapons sitting in development limbo forever.

Amurond.4590:

MashMash.1645:

If 6 devs that were working on Legendaries are going to be so useful to LS3, then the 6 devs from raids should also be moved over to LS3.

Raids can wait. They are played by a small fraction of the playerbase compared to LS, and LS3 is the priority.

When all the things promised are caught up they can go back to making raids.

I’d be interested to see the numbers/statistics behind people who participate in raids vs people who own legendaries. Some justification I have seen is that only a small percentage of players own legendaries. I’d like to see how it stacks up the percentage playing the raids.

The raid team is also producing content faster, I think. We’re getting 1 new legendary inbetween 3 raid wings. And we’ve gotten the first 3 new legendaries after years of waiting, while the raid team is relatively new.

If those 6 developers are put in a team that can consistently produce new content for most players to enjoy, most players would win with this. I mean, for every legendary journey designed, you could have 3 smaller collection quests instead, without massive money sinking behind it, thus having broader appeal as well.

Likewise, I hope the art designers behind legendary weapons aid existing artists/ modelers to speed up the process in which we get new non-gemstore gear.

See…this is what happens you guys and gals kiss up and send in cupcakes. All it did was reinforce bad behavior

No cupcakes for you!

I own a legendary weapon, and I run raids.

I shouldn’t have to feel like a bad guy for admitting I like the harder and more time consuming aspects of the game, it should come naturally to want to be tested and have yourself put through the ringer to come out on the other side.

The community has every right to be upset that they developers care more about black lion skins and the next expansion than finishing what they already sold.

I thought things would go better when Mike took the reigns but I guess the only thing that changed is he’ll openly silence you for speaking “out of line”

evilunderling.9265:

ODB.6891:

Not sure why your nose is so brown about this, but yeah….if enough of their customers are getting refunds…that is a big scary thing to their apparently non existent bottom line.

Disagreeing with you is not the same thing as brown-nosing.

You think ANet are a bunch of lying cheats, I think they’re a bunch of incompetent hacks. You want to see the game crash and burn so that you can gloat and make people miserable, I want to see ANet get their kitten together so that I might one day have a good game to come back to.

If people get refunds, so what? It doesn’t affect my bottom line, and if the game crashes and burns, I have plenty of other games to play. It does, however, mean fewer people kittening on the forums and making everyone else miserable, so it’s actually a win on that front.

I’m glad to see you tuned into your psychic friends network to find out that I want to see the game crash and burn. That really aligns with the fact that I purchased HoT and still login sporadically to see if anything has improved. That also really aligns with me still accessing the forums to even bother expressing displeasure regarding an extremely negative course of action they are taking towards my game play enjoyment. Clearly I’m posting because I don’t want them to deliver an enjoyable game to their paying customers, which does not just include me.

ODB.6891:

evilunderling.9265:

ODB.6891:

Even if they some how manage to avoid legal consequences, for the dirtiest and most disreputable business practices I have ever seen in the gaming industry.

If you think they’re shady kittens and want to boycott them? Whatever. But this? “dirtiest and most disreputable business practices… in the gaming industry.”?

You are absolutely full of it.

ANet ballsed up. Everyone knows it. They admit it. There is no malice here, and nothing to even suggest any.

They never said that you can’t get your money back, and even if they did, any bank would happily process a chargeback for you.

Your brown nosing knows no end apparently. You aren’t getting a cookie for sucking up. You can bury your head in the sand or bend over…whatever. I won’t. You can try to ignore their track record up to this point…I won’t. There is no lack of publicly available information about their lack of trustworthiness…especially when it comes to all things HoT so far. The fact that they had to be pressured into refunds for hot pre-orders. The fact they had to be pressured into the inclusion of a free character slot option with the inclusion of a new playable class for the expansion. The fact that the primary advertisements for HoT were for content that they have decided to just cancel…6 months after selling us the product. The fact that they have said absolutely nothing about refunds or any form of compensation. These are adult issues. These are business issues. These are legal issues. These are respect for their customers issues. If you can’t understand that, then you need to stop posting. This type of concern isn’t isolated to just one industry. If I ran any type of business, and advertised a product indicating specific things would be included. You came into my store, read the advertisement, and purchased based on said advertisement. Then you went home and found out said advertised items were not in the box. You contacted me and I simply told you that I decided not to include them for whatever (irrelevant to you) excuses…and just stood there smiling at you…with no offer for compensation or refund…would you feel you had been treated with respect as a paying customer? We all know the answer is no…therefore you are absolutely full of it. It doesn’t matter if they came out and admitted it now. I could care less about transparency, this far after the fact, with no satisfactory action taken to resolve the grievance. This was a conclusion we were already coming to on our own…many forum posts about this already. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this was anything other than yet another PR recovery move. Yes, this was dirty and disreputable. You think they just realized this was a problem yesterday? You think they weren’t having these issues with the legendary weapon process prior to releasing HoT? You don’t remember the outcry on the forums due to lack of information on what would actually be included in HoT for the pre-order purchase price? That was the time when transparency was needed….not 6 months after they sold it to us. That is dirty and disreputable. As far as requesting a refund from our banks…what bank is going to refund an e-purchase from 6 months ago? Why should we even have to go that route to dispute it from our bank. You don’t speak for ANET or our banking institutions. If ANET is trustworthy…they would be offering us the refund…just like any other reputable company with a product recall.

Spot on, if this was a bricks and mortar outlet doing this type of thing, they would be sued into the ground.

Its like Ford selling a car then they say “don’t worry the engine is not finished yet, it will be delivered soon. Oh wait, we changed our mind, we are not giving you the engine now, we are investing our time into giving you nice new rims.” I am actually disturbed that some people are giving Anet a pass on this. They have actually broken consumer laws in the EU and lied to you, and basically some are saying that’s ok, I still love you!

Kalarchis.8635:

It seems like the holdup here is the legendary journey part. If the volume of gem store weapons tells us anything, it’s that the physical design of the weapon is the easy part. It’s building the precursor journey that’s slogging up the whole process. I recall them saying that this delayed them on the initial release of precursor crafting as well.

Probably have Johnny Appleseed replanting all of Tyria’s trees. You know the last round of Legendary Crafting and Guild Hall upgrades caused the last destruction of our woodlands. We are still struggling with the aftermath of deforestation caused by the builders of Nevermore.

The world can’t stand another legendary or two being built. We simply must give the trees more time to grow!