Guild Wars 2

Mike O Brien.4613:

Obviously I go into this knowing that some players will be very upset. That’s why it’s such a tough decision.

Ankdarkwolf, Darkmikau, Ballads, Spira, Caerbannog, Cysgod, you each posted a variant of an accusation I’ve seen many times over the past few months on the forums, something along the lines of, “AN shipped half an expansion with HoT.” I take issue with that. We shipped a new region full of content, a new mastery system, gliding, guild halls, a new profession, nine new elite specializations for existing professions, and more. Then we shipped precursor journeys for existing legendaries, and said, “We’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates.” While I fully get that you’re disappointed today, this is not about us shipping half an expansion pack.

Mo

Selling ideas . They are often very intangible and take a certain style of selling.
HoT = ‘How to sell thin air’…

What specifically are you selling?
1. New Legendary Weapons that never existed….all along intangible.
2. Fractal Ad Infini Back still doesn’t exist. Intangible
3. Legendary Armor still doesn’t exist. Intangible
4. WvW overhaul. Never existed.
etc.

You false advertised/bait and switched a product that was incomplete filled with intangible enticements to lure the consumer in.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Thanks for all the comments. I know there’s nothing I’m going to say that will make you feel better, but I’ll share some final thoughts for the night.

I said three weeks ago I’d focus on sustainability and quality. I want to reiterate the part about sustainability. Be angry about legendary weapons, sure, but how about the recent drought of content? That kind of thing happens when we spread ourselves too thin, and when we let the content development pipeline empty out so we can fight fires. What I think we actually owe you is sustainable, predictable, high-quality content. I’m making a decision that’s painful in the short-term so we can position ourselves to deliver that.

I support your decision and it will be better for gw2 in the long run even though player activity will probably decline in the short term. I hope most people here will understand that.

It seems obvious to me that gw2 has spread itself too thinly trying to do too many things at once.

And most people don’t make legendaries anymore, especially because of the scavenger hunt and the inability to buy parts of it off the trading post anymore. Instead of being able to play what I want, when I want, and generate gold each day that goes into making a legendary, I am forced to do 50 specific tasks and grind each HOT map for a very long time which is personally not my playstyle.

The whole management of the HoT PR and the marketing of its content seems dishonest to me.

The expansion was released with tons of his features halved (Revenants with half of their Legends without scuba skills, fractal backpiece still unfinished, tons of bugs in the achievements for the new legendary weapons…). Some areas of the game were also destroyed (dungeons, wvw…) and remain now useless.

The whole vision of GW2 is now unfocused, no matter how you name it: facts speaks louder than words, and facts are now shouting about deceit and inability to deliver the expected content.

Mike

I appreciate the communication. I understand your reasoning for making the decision you’ve made. I really do. However, I also completely understand people’s frustration about not getting what was “promised”. Now having Legendaries put on indefinite hold for more content doesn’t bother me , but I’m afraid that this decision will negatively affect further sales and longevity of this game that I thoroughly enjoy. Has there been any thought about some form of “compensation” to help appease the mob? A small amount of free gems? A couple free skins or outfits? Nothing huge that’ll break the bank, but some form of good gesture that demonstrates that you acknowledge that mistakes were made and that you understand people’s concerns with the reliability of future promised content.

KittyCat.2059:

Mike O Brien.4613:

Obviously I go into this knowing that some players will be very upset. That’s why it’s such a tough decision.

Ankdarkwolf, Darkmikau, Ballads, Spira, Caerbannog, Cysgod, you each posted a variant of an accusation I’ve seen many times over the past few months on the forums, something along the lines of, “AN shipped half an expansion with HoT.” I take issue with that. We shipped a new region full of content, a new mastery system, gliding, guild halls, a new profession, nine new elite specializations for existing professions, and more. Then we shipped precursor journeys for existing legendaries, and said, “We’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates.” While I fully get that you’re disappointed today, this is not about us shipping half an expansion pack.

Mo

Selling ideas . They are often very intangible and take a certain style of selling.
HoT = ‘How to sell thin air’…

What specifically are you selling?
1. New Legendary Weapons that never existed….all along intangible.
2. Fractal Ad Infini Back still doesn’t exist. Intangible
3. Legendary Armor still doesn’t exist. Intangible
4. WvW overhaul. Never existed.
etc.

You false advertised/bait and switched a product that was incomplete filled with intangible enticements to lure the consumer in.

Ohh please can we stop with all the selective hearing? all those intangible ideas you’re talking about were all made clear that they would be arriving after HoT’s launch. And can we please stop making it sound like all HoT is made off is the stuff that has yet to be delivered? How about all the other stuff that was there at launch, that counts for nothing? how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

Wolfheart.1879:

Dear Mike,

Thank you for communicating this to us in a very honest way. I also applaud you for your AMA on the GW2 subreddit. One of the things that really turned me off this game many months ago was the frankly awful communication. It is by no means perfect now, but there have been definite steps to have discussions with us and from the top level. Certainly an improvement.

As for the content of your message, I like many are supremely disappointed by this. Once again it is a promise undelivered. You say you refute the allegation that you only gave us half an expansion. That is your right to disagree, but if this is the prevailing thought among the playerbase, I fear it may adversely affect interest and sales of the next expansion. Players are unlikely to want to be burned twice.

I understand promises and plans can be made that seem feasible at the time, and once the path has been started on, you realise it just can’t happen. That is the natural consequence of the narrowing of vision upon the details that comes from making plans and dreams a reality. But to do it now, many months after HoT shipped, does nothing to give confidence to players. It was part of the stated content of HoT, that the 16 would eventually be released. many may have bought the game in part on the basis of that promise. If you changed tack before the release of HoT, it would have been disappointing, but it would have been understandable, in much the same way as this conversation has been before over the years. An intention that just couldn’t happen. It’s disappointing, but it happens. But once you committed to marketing the content to include this, then release the expansion as paid content, you set up an expectation that the promised content of the expansion, which you are buying on the basis of, will be delivered. I’m not looking to debate what qualifies as an expansion, or whether the expansion content is of sufficient quality to justify the price. But Anet set out a list of features that together make up HoT. You have announced that certain features (new legendaries) will not now be released. Objectively, you have failed to deliver all the content in the expansion. You may argue as to how much of an expansion is released, but it cannot be argued that you delivered the full expansion as advertised, and will now be unable to do in the coming updates. By definition, it is incomplete. I don’t see it as a deliberate fraud. I do see it as incompetence. As to who perpetrated that incompetence, I still think the jury is out.

Despite that belief, that we are now certainly not getting the full set of expansion selling points, I do agree with your general direction. You spoke of the choice between getting substantive content and delivering these. The truth is that prior to HoT we had very little of anything added, and those things that were weren’t particularly good. I hope you’ll understand the skepticism of seeing more features pruned and more promises of quality content that already has a reputation for not materialising.

We are skeptic because we have been treated so poorly in the past. That has been an institutional thing. Attitudes need to change, and despite the criticism here, i do see the beginnings of that. But we need more. We need more foreknowledge to upcoming features so you can gauge reactions to upcoming content and features. It may be that we think of issues or ideas that could be useful. More than once, players have identified potential issues that had later come to pass. It may be better for all concerned for us to have some ability to see changes in a reasonable timeframe prior to shipping that allows you to alter and adjust during the development process. That way you won’t be left with broken system and content (for reference: the year-long traits fiasco) and satisfaction won’t suffer so much. Also, try to find a better balance between what you hype and what would be realistic. So much crushing disappointment isn’t based on how bad the game isn’t (for the most part, it isn’t, though I think the HoT areas need some serious work), but the gulf between the potential (and hype) and what we actually get. I like your businesslike attitude in that it seems there is a greater structure that should yield better, more consistent and better timed content. And i understand to create this better place where things get delivered and are of higher quality you need to make drastic changes now. I’m grateful they are being done now rather than ina years time, but until we see the fruits of the labour, we are going to go by a lot of how things have been before, and how well this change fits into the old narrative. For the love of the Six, please deliver on this and make GW2 and Anet the developer it was before. I’d forgive anything to see a return to that path. Just make sure we are truly on it going forward.

• I wish you could hear me clap. One of the best posts of the current 24 pages, of this dreary topic.

I dislike GW2 has been treated so poorly, content and updates that hardly impact the experience in positive ways. And now along with disappointing the player base, HoT has been an entire rip off… ArenaNet needs a healthy relationship with customers, just because the forums has toxic people at times doesn’t mean this defines the community as a whole. Abandoning the official forums as main communication is not being faithful to the community, it’s being a cowered. I agree a community helps any social game grow and eases the stress of the developers. But the management I’ve seen is a disaster for any creative growth and healthy relationships, for the company and players.

ArenaNet has continuously integrated content that needs to be fixed/re-worked, and that’s not helping anyone when they don’t see their hard work is an entirely broken concept. That’s how we got Druid and all Specializations being like “Castles” that are built on the outdated design of base professions, the ruins of other broken Castles.

This company is going to fail at this rate and create more financial issues. Breaking more of the community’s faith. It’s a slow and painful death. I don’t want to see it happen but that’s pretty much what’s going to happen. In this case, ArenaNet, has created an issue (It’s their doing) where they have to give the player base a fair compensation. Continue working on the release of all 16 legendarys, or, player’s get fair compensation.

Have a sunny day, to you Community.

I just have one question for you all, so we are told S3 isnt due until 3rd wing launch… thats not going to happen until next quarter content update which is in june. Chances are its not going to release the same day, infact if they keep the same rotation chances are S3 will start on the next quarter update after that which would be in september.

Now we know it takes an average of 2 months to create a legendary weapon so are you all really saying you’d rather have 0 new content beyond raid wing 3 for 6 months and get 3 new legendary weapons together with season 3 in September than wait at least till next year to get new legendary weapons but get a stream of new content to play until Season 3 releases potentially in September?

are legendaries really that important to you or am i missing the collective message here?

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

Galen Grey.4709:

are legendaries really that important to you or am i missing the collective message here?

what you’re missing here is that the expansion not only released without features promised, but now one of those features is on indefinite hold. That was decided after they took the money.

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

are legendaries really that important to you or am i missing the collective message here?

what you’re missing here is that the expansion not only released without features promised, but now one of those features is on indefinite hold. That was decided after they took the money.

I think she was asking whether you would rather have more legendaries or wait longer in between living world updates. We obviously can’t have both.

Mike O Brien.4613:

What I think we actually owe you is sustainable, predictable, high-quality content. I’m making a decision that’s painful in the short-term so we can position ourselves to deliver that.

I agree that the focus needs to be on content but please try and focus on content that is not temporary (e.g. LS1) and grindy content (e.g. Dry top, etc). Please can you try and give us some new zones that we can just take our time and enjoy. Zones that aren’t tied to massive event trains. Zones where we can meet NPC’s and explore.

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

You can’t craft the new Legendaries unless you have the Mastery that came with HoT, so I would say it’s part of it. If it wasn’t part of it it you could still do it even if you didn’t own HoT.

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

might want to scroll down to legendary weapons then where it clearly states 16 then.

do you even ctrl + f, bro?

BrotherBelial.3094:

So if anyone is talking rubbish it would be you. Yes Legendary weapons getting canned is bad, but we knew when we got HoT, that they would not ship with it. People need to remember this.

When we got the expac, yes. But if you prepurchased as soon as it was available, the most recent info was still saying that both raids and new legendaries (full set) will be part of it. Just watch the initial HoT reveal movie, and read the following interviews.

Oogo.4083:

Are legendaries so important to the point that most players should be forced to replay old content over and over just so a small niche is happy?

No. Keeping the promises however is. Because the next time the content getting the cut may be something that you wanted.

Also, there was never a choice like you describe. They do have ~70 devs working on the next expac they can use.

DiogoSilva.7089:

AysonCurrax.3254:

Better Decision, as in: have less staff work on the next expansion, and instead have them work on the current one to deliver what was promised.

Isn’t that what they are doing with the april patch and the 3rd raid wing?

No? Unless something changed since the last AMA without us knowing, those 70 devs are still working on the next expac, not on the april patch, raid wing, lS or anything else.

DiogoSilva.7089:

There was literally no need to put legendaries on hold to improve work on Living World and whatever else.

If there was no need, they wouldn’t have done so. Why go for an extremely unpopular decision, unless it were absolutely necessary?

Because they’d rather have people working on next expac, which they will sell to gullible players, instead of actually delivering stuff they promised for what they have sold. After all, they got the money for that already, so obviously it’s a lesser priority.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

You can’t craft the new Legendaries unless you have the Mastery that came with HoT, so I would say it’s part of it. If it wasn’t part of it it you could still do it even if you didn’t own HoT.

Not necassarily. It wouldn’t be the first time a game company has gated side content behind expansion/DLC content. It’s a strategy to get players to pay for the extra content.

ZombieLeach.5862:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

You can’t craft the new Legendaries unless you have the Mastery that came with HoT, so I would say it’s part of it. If it wasn’t part of it it you could still do it even if you didn’t own HoT.

Not necassarily. It wouldn’t be the first time a game company has gated side content behind expansion/DLC content. It’s a strategy to get players to pay for the extra content.

or even better, make you pay partly for content you already paid for 2-3 years before.

ZombieLeach.5862:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

You can’t craft the new Legendaries unless you have the Mastery that came with HoT, so I would say it’s part of it. If it wasn’t part of it it you could still do it even if you didn’t own HoT.

Not necassarily. It wouldn’t be the first time a game company has gated side content behind expansion/DLC content. It’s a strategy to get players to pay for the extra content.

The mastery system is an integral part of the expansion. If you don’t buy the expansion, you don’t have access to this new system of progressing your character. One of the mastery lines is precursor crafting, so that means it’s part of the expansion, not something that came along with it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

ZombieLeach.5862:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

You can’t craft the new Legendaries unless you have the Mastery that came with HoT, so I would say it’s part of it. If it wasn’t part of it it you could still do it even if you didn’t own HoT.

Not necassarily. It wouldn’t be the first time a game company has gated side content behind expansion/DLC content. It’s a strategy to get players to pay for the extra content.

The mastery system is an integral part of the expansion. If you don’t buy the expansion, you don’t have access to this new system of progressing your character. One of the mastery lines is precursor crafting, so that means it’s part of the expansion, not something that came along with it.

horizontal character progression… some might even call it a gating mechanic to make it seem like content has more depth that it actually does.

I have to say that, personally, I feel content-for-everyone>legendaries, any day of the week.

So, if it really came down to a choice between the two, you absolutely made the right decision.

However, I can totally see how people, who may have bought the xpac partly for the new legendaries, may be left feeling very disappointed.

These kind if decisions should really be made pre-release (or pre pre-sale, actually) to avoid people feeling the product has been misrepresented.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

You can’t craft the new Legendaries unless you have the Mastery that came with HoT, so I would say it’s part of it. If it wasn’t part of it it you could still do it even if you didn’t own HoT.

Doesnt matter, you cannot play an MMO unless you have an internet connection I dont think I can go ask a refund / sue my ISP because everquest next was cancelled on the argument that I bought an internet connection just because I knew I’d need one to play it dont you think?

AysonCurrax.3254:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

ZombieLeach.5862:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

You can’t craft the new Legendaries unless you have the Mastery that came with HoT, so I would say it’s part of it. If it wasn’t part of it it you could still do it even if you didn’t own HoT.

Not necassarily. It wouldn’t be the first time a game company has gated side content behind expansion/DLC content. It’s a strategy to get players to pay for the extra content.

The mastery system is an integral part of the expansion. If you don’t buy the expansion, you don’t have access to this new system of progressing your character. One of the mastery lines is precursor crafting, so that means it’s part of the expansion, not something that came along with it.

horizontal character progression… some might even call it a gating mechanic to make it seem like content has more depth that it actually does.

That has nothing to do with the discussion here of whether or not something which is a mastery line is part of the HoT.

Galen Grey.4709:

Doesnt matter, you cannot play an MMO unless you have an internet connection I dont think I can go ask a refund / sue my ISP because everquest next was cancelled on the argument that I bought an internet connection just because I knew I’d need one to play it dont you think?

And neither does this.

AysonCurrax.3254:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

might want to scroll down to legendary weapons then where it clearly states 16 then.

do you even ctrl + f, bro?

I stand corrected it is there though again it doesnt promise by when the’d release the full set

Just a flesh wound.3589:

AysonCurrax.3254:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

ZombieLeach.5862:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

You can’t craft the new Legendaries unless you have the Mastery that came with HoT, so I would say it’s part of it. If it wasn’t part of it it you could still do it even if you didn’t own HoT.

Not necassarily. It wouldn’t be the first time a game company has gated side content behind expansion/DLC content. It’s a strategy to get players to pay for the extra content.

The mastery system is an integral part of the expansion. If you don’t buy the expansion, you don’t have access to this new system of progressing your character. One of the mastery lines is precursor crafting, so that means it’s part of the expansion, not something that came along with it.

horizontal character progression… some might even call it a gating mechanic to make it seem like content has more depth that it actually does.

That has nothing to do with the discussion here of whether or not something which is a mastery line is part of the HoT.

Well, it could, kind of, if you take it into consideration that its an indicator for other parts where they didnt live up to the hype and promise they created.

Galen Grey.4709:

AysonCurrax.3254:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

might want to scroll down to legendary weapons then where it clearly states 16 then.

do you even ctrl + f, bro?

I stand corrected it is there though again it doesnt promise by when the’d release the full set

• Additional legendary weapons will be released in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of 16 has been added to this game.

Siobhan.5273:

Galen Grey.4709:

AysonCurrax.3254:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

might want to scroll down to legendary weapons then where it clearly states 16 then.

do you even ctrl + f, bro?

I stand corrected it is there though again it doesnt promise by when the’d release the full set

• Additional legendary weapons will be released in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of 16 has been added to this game.

once very 100 years is a regular interval just saying.

Galen Grey.4709:

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Please check out this page:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

Galen Grey.4709:

Siobhan.5273:

Galen Grey.4709:

AysonCurrax.3254:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

of course it doesn’t count for anything. If you’re buying a product you look at the list of features and those features better be in it, as you’re buying a product based on it.
If you looked to buy a third person RPG with an open world and 100 different skills to level, you won’t be happy when you find out that the product that you actually bought is an isometric view RPG with instance based world and only 88 skills. And it won’t matter to you if afterwards they said “but we added bunnies and we never advertised them”!

What Anet did here counts as fraud. And because of that I urge everyone to report them to trade associations.

you know what the irony is here… none of this were actually listed part of HoT
dont believe me, just check heartofthorns.guildwars2.com and try to find where 16 new legendary weapons is listed. its not. This was content that was promised along side HoT not part of HoT.

Not that I am suggesting its okey for Anet to back on their word, they should still honor it of course and its not like they said otherwise either but it certainly does mean its not fraud so lets just shelf the heavy words and focus on the issue at hand.

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

might want to scroll down to legendary weapons then where it clearly states 16 then.

do you even ctrl + f, bro?

I stand corrected it is there though again it doesnt promise by when the’d release the full set

• Additional legendary weapons will be released in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of 16 has been added to this game.

once very 100 years is a regular interval just saying.

Sure, if your customers are immortal.

The apologists here defending bad business baffle me. Yall can make excuses for this crap all you want but most of us will speak with our wallets and not keep paying for scams.

Jushiohara.9140:

The apologists here defending bad business baffle me. Yall can make excuses for this crap all you want but most of us will speak with our wallets and not keep paying for scams.

The apologists aren’t defending bad business. they kinda think its a good idea to have some new content to play in the next 6 months as oppossed to having 3 more legendaries to craft in the same time frame.

It baffles me that you think it would be better having no new content to play for the next 6 months but getting 3 new legendaries to craft instead in September.

Ohh and btw, yes I’d rather they make decisions for the good of the game that can be considered bad business practices rather then stubbornly hold the course even if they know its going to result in a disaster just for the sake of keeping their word.

Jushiohara.9140:

The apologists here defending bad business baffle me. Yall can make excuses for this crap all you want but most of us will speak with our wallets and not keep paying for scams.

On that Note;

Dear Mike

to focus my monetary expenses on the development of my personal Living Story, Gem Purchases from my Account are now on hold indefinetly.

If you want my Dough, MO, fix your content, yo.

Mirta.5029:

reported you to the trading standards of UK and hopefully the rest of the people in this topic will report you to their country trading standards too.

On what grounds? Do you know the meaning of the word indefinitely? It means on hold for an undetermined length of time, in its most basic use. Mo has had the brass ones to tell us this. They could have just given us a, it’s taking longer than we though, they’ll be here “when it’s ready”, then just given us “soon” .

Trading standards are not going to tell ANet they have to make the new legendary weapons asap.

All ANet have to tell trading standards is that its a technical design problem, and they full intend to honour what they said, and point out that they did not give us a time frame of when we would be getting them all, only that they would start after the launch of HoT. So in legal terms they have done nothing wrong.

ANet have not said they will never go back to them, and the dream is dead. What they have said is that after the next one, they have no time frame on when we will be getting more, as the team that was working on them has been pulled to work on other projects.

There is nothing trading standards can or will do.

Found this GW2 Heart of Thorns Interview with Mike O’Brien and Colin Johanson video. 6:50 to 7:46 of the video was good… actually, 6:50 to the end was good.

Galen Grey.4709:

Jushiohara.9140:

The apologists here defending bad business baffle me. Yall can make excuses for this crap all you want but most of us will speak with our wallets and not keep paying for scams.

The apologists aren’t defending bad business. they kinda think its a good idea to have some new content to play in the next 6 months as oppossed to having 3 more legendaries to craft in the same time frame.

It baffles me that you think it would be better having no new content to play for the next 6 months but getting 3 new legendaries to craft instead in September.

Ohh and btw, yes I’d rather they make decisions for the good of the game that can be considered bad business practices rather then stubbornly hold the course even if they know its going to result in a disaster just for the sake of keeping their word.

and that change in workforce changes what exactly? new content wont come any sooner, and by putting legendaries on hold, you actually will get less content to do in the same time frame. In addition to that you get bad business practices. bad practices are the stellar opposite of being good for the game, or preventing a disaster, for that matter. much rather, they cause a disaster.

AysonCurrax.3254:

Galen Grey.4709:

Jushiohara.9140:

The apologists here defending bad business baffle me. Yall can make excuses for this crap all you want but most of us will speak with our wallets and not keep paying for scams.

The apologists aren’t defending bad business. they kinda think its a good idea to have some new content to play in the next 6 months as oppossed to having 3 more legendaries to craft in the same time frame.

It baffles me that you think it would be better having no new content to play for the next 6 months but getting 3 new legendaries to craft instead in September.

Ohh and btw, yes I’d rather they make decisions for the good of the game that can be considered bad business practices rather then stubbornly hold the course even if they know its going to result in a disaster just for the sake of keeping their word.

and that change in workforce changes what exactly? new content wont come any sooner, and by putting legendaries on hold, you actually will get less content to do in the same time frame. In addition to that you get bad business practices. bad practices are the stellar opposite of being good for the game, or preventing a disaster, for that matter. much rather, they cause a disaster.

Did you even read Mike’s posts? yes it will change that “This team of developers will instead shift their efforts back to Living World style content, building new journeys and events for everyone to participate in.”
Sure we will not get a full expansion, we ill not get Living story season 3 sooner either no doubt but we will get most likely some new dynamic events and new things happening in the world.

Why would Anet do this if they didnt think they’d be some positive out of this? Do you think they love these PR Nightmares or something? Besides 2 new legendaries are coming with the next release so even if they keep working on legendaries you wouldnt have the next couple before july either.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Hi all,

In the upcoming Spring 2016 Quarterly Update, we’ll launch the new legendary short bow, Chuka and Champawat. The team outdid themselves on this one. This new precursor journey takes you through a memorable experience inspired by a real-world story, and the bow you craft at the end is the perfect commemoration of that journey. I hope you all check it out.

Last year we talked about plans to gradually build out a second set of legendary weapons through live content updates. That’s a big responsibility. We have a team of six developers working on that, who could work on it for years to come.

As game director I have to make tough trade-offs. One thing I believe is that we have to focus on the core game first before taking on additional responsibilities. I wrote in the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto in 2010 that our vision was to create a living, dynamic world, where there’s always something to do. Let’s ensure we succeed on that front.

So, after shipping Chuka and Champawat, I’ve asked that we indefinitely suspend work on new legendary weapons. This team of developers will instead shift their efforts back to Living World style content, building new journeys and events for everyone to participate in.

I know this will be a controversial decision. I’ll hang out with you here on the forums for a little while today to discuss it. And I’m always available by email.

Mo

Mo and rest of Anet staff, happy Easter and I hope you’re managing to find some nice moments during the holiday.

But for goodness sake, why did you announce this now Mo? Why didn’t you wait till at least after April patch to give players some good news first, or even till closer to LWS3? It may have softened the blow for those disappointed with this decision.

As someone already mentioned in one of the many threads on this issue, in hindside, I think you guys overextended yourself creating a crafting method and a “journey” for the old Leg Weaps. You really should have left them as they were and only focused on the new ones. Had you done that, I have no doubt you would have been able to ship them all with Hot not just 3 at a time. You could have always revisited the old weapons later and added a crafting method to those as you found time.

However, what’s done is done and i think it would go along way if you at least reassure the players they will get rest of the weapons at some point, if that is the case. It may calm them down, as at the moment, many are thinking they will never be released.

Galen Grey.4709:

Jushiohara.9140:

The apologists here defending bad business baffle me. Yall can make excuses for this crap all you want but most of us will speak with our wallets and not keep paying for scams.

The apologists aren’t defending bad business. they kinda think its a good idea to have some new content to play in the next 6 months as oppossed to having 3 more legendaries to craft in the same time frame.

It baffles me that you think it would be better having no new content to play for the next 6 months but getting 3 new legendaries to craft instead in September.

Ohh and btw, yes I’d rather they make decisions for the good of the game that can be considered bad business practices rather then stubbornly hold the course even if they know its going to result in a disaster just for the sake of keeping their word.

just for the sake of keeping your word….

How the world has changed where keeping your word is now so meaningless and easily abandoned, but I think not necessarily for the better.

They should have reconsidered the Legendaries, not dropped them. Made them a drop and crafted by the old system if the precursor crafting took too much time and effort to do. That’s where they should have retrenched. They should have bitten the economic bullet and hired more people if that was what was required to keep their word.

The repercussions to a company or a person can be profound when people believe they can’t be trusted to keep their word. If you don’t think this won’t be thrown in ANet’s face at every turn, every promise they make now, if you don’t think this won’t impact the sales of the next expansion then I think that you don’t understand how people react when someone doesn’t keep their word.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Jushiohara.9140:

The apologists here defending bad business baffle me. Yall can make excuses for this crap all you want but most of us will speak with our wallets and not keep paying for scams.

The apologists aren’t defending bad business. they kinda think its a good idea to have some new content to play in the next 6 months as oppossed to having 3 more legendaries to craft in the same time frame.

It baffles me that you think it would be better having no new content to play for the next 6 months but getting 3 new legendaries to craft instead in September.

Ohh and btw, yes I’d rather they make decisions for the good of the game that can be considered bad business practices rather then stubbornly hold the course even if they know its going to result in a disaster just for the sake of keeping their word.

just for the sake of keeping your word….

How the world has changed where keeping your word is now so meaningless and easily abandoned, but I think not necessarily for the better.

They should have reconsidered the Legendaries, not dropped them. Made them a drop and crafted by the old system if the precursor crafting took too much time and effort to do. That’s where they should have retrenched. They should have bitten the economic bullet and hired more people if that was what was required to keep their word.

The repercussions to a company or a person can be profound when people believe they can’t be trusted to keep their word. If you don’t think this won’t be thrown in ANet’s face at every turn, every promise they make now, if you don’t think this won’t impact the sales of the next expansion then I think that you don’t understand how people react when someone doesn’t keep their word.

Okey wait a second… who said this was an easy decision… all we saw is the communication, we have no clue what went behind it and how long it took for Mike to come to this decision.

Second, which communication did you read? Mine said put on hold indefinitely not dropped.

I know hiring more people may seem the simple answer and while I have no idea what the situation is at ANET I bet its far from that simple. Most likely like many other companies their owners give them a budget and thats all they have to work with. They can try to argue their case with NCSoft but since HoT didnt do that well most likely they tried and got a no. That leaves them with 2 choices… do nothing or reshuffle resources but there is no economic bullet they can bite to hire more people if they just dont get the budget.

Yeah I think we all know how people react at each issue Arenanet face. But what is the alternative really?

Galen Grey.4709:

Ohh please can we stop with all the selective hearing? all those intangible ideas you’re talking about were all made clear that they would be arriving after HoT’s launch. And can we please stop making it sound like all HoT is made off is the stuff that has yet to be delivered? How about all the other stuff that was there at launch, that counts for nothing? how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

Whether a feature was promised at HoT launch or at some later time is immaterial as far as the disappointment expressed in this thread goes. The thing that matters is whether those features were viewed as part of the HoT purchase because, well, you had to buy HoT to get access to them. So, let’s look:

1. New Legendary Weapons: required HoT purchase due to Mastery needed.
2. Fractal L. Back: New fractals reward system requires a mastery, which requires HoT purchase.
3. Legendary Armor: Raids require HoT purchase.
4. WvW overhaul: No need to buy HoT to play WvW, even in the new maps. Not having access to Elite Specs hurts, because they are widely accepted as being better than core specs — but that’s another thread.

As for what was actually in HoT at launch… One of the issues raised on these boards was whether what HoT offered justified paying the price. As I recall, a lot of people said they chose not to buy. If someone did buy, they may have included the above features in their personal value-for-money assessment. It’s natural for people to believe they’re being shorted if in fact one of the things that went into the positive column is being removed. It’s also natural for people to lose faith in a company when such things happen, and to express their disappointment.

As to Shatterer and Tyria gliding… Updates have been a part of the game since launch. It’s in the interests of both players and developer that there be regular updates. This keeps people playing and maybe paying. Gliding in Tyria serves Anet as well as players as an advertisement for HoT. As to squad revamp, it can be said that it added functionality that should have been there all along.

All that said, the issues this change draws attention to are disturbing:

• Why does it take so long for ANet to do so many things? In a later post, you mention two months per new L. Weapon. If that’s actually the case, we should have seen 2 more by now, with a 6th due next month. Why does it take them so long to do LS updates, when in LS2 they came out with several chapters across 6-8 weeks with ~3 month hiatuses?
• Why does ANet end up revamping things all the time (NPE, traits, zones, stats, mob armies, now we’re looking at a HoT revamp)? It’s a good thing to be responsive to player complaints, but the need to change so many things might speak to either a failure to judge what is wanted and needed, or a failure to estimate the impact of game design elements on popularity.
• What happens to the relationship between consumer and company when the pattern of behavior by the company leads the consumer to lose faith in the company? Now, maybe this will blow over in a while, or maybe not. In the meantime, it will cost Anet some players. Thing is, they’ve already done a lot of things that cost them players.

Galen Grey.4709:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Jushiohara.9140:

The apologists here defending bad business baffle me. Yall can make excuses for this crap all you want but most of us will speak with our wallets and not keep paying for scams.

The apologists aren’t defending bad business. they kinda think its a good idea to have some new content to play in the next 6 months as oppossed to having 3 more legendaries to craft in the same time frame.

It baffles me that you think it would be better having no new content to play for the next 6 months but getting 3 new legendaries to craft instead in September.

Ohh and btw, yes I’d rather they make decisions for the good of the game that can be considered bad business practices rather then stubbornly hold the course even if they know its going to result in a disaster just for the sake of keeping their word.

just for the sake of keeping your word….

How the world has changed where keeping your word is now so meaningless and easily abandoned, but I think not necessarily for the better.

They should have reconsidered the Legendaries, not dropped them. Made them a drop and crafted by the old system if the precursor crafting took too much time and effort to do. That’s where they should have retrenched. They should have bitten the economic bullet and hired more people if that was what was required to keep their word.

The repercussions to a company or a person can be profound when people believe they can’t be trusted to keep their word. If you don’t think this won’t be thrown in ANet’s face at every turn, every promise they make now, if you don’t think this won’t impact the sales of the next expansion then I think that you don’t understand how people react when someone doesn’t keep their word.

Okey wait a second… who said this was an easy decision… all we saw is the communication, we have no clue what went behind it and how long it took for Mike to come to this decision.

Second, which communication did you read? Mine said put on hold indefinitely not dropped.

I know hiring more people may seem the simple answer and while I have no idea what the situation is at ANET I bet its far from that simple. Most likely like many other companies their owners give them a budget and thats all they have to work with. They can try to argue their case with NCSoft but since HoT didnt do that well most likely they tried and got a no. That leaves them with 2 choices… do nothing or reshuffle resources but there is no economic bullet they can bite to hire more people if they just dont get the budget.

Yeah I think we all know how people react at each issue Arenanet face. But what is the alternative really?

The altenatives where’s it’s between keeping your word and not keeping your word?

Gosh. Let me think on that one.

Not keeping your word can be the immediate, cheap way out of a problem, but be the expensive path later when everytime you promise something or everytime you sell an expansion the time(s) you didn’t keep your word is remembered. The sale of HoT was not as good as they liked. Unless they have these Legendaries out, how well do you think the next expansion will sell when people are questioning every item thats in it, and deciding to wait to buy.

Cheap now can be expensive later.

Galen Grey.4709:

once very 100 years is a regular interval just saying.

If I may butt in, and I might be going out on a limb here, but I suspect you’ve never heard of terms such as ‘reasonable expectations’? Sorry for interrupting. Please continue arguing semantics

@IndigoSundown

Disappointment wise I completely agree, was only rebutting the legal stuff.

All true but lets not forget Mike didnt say he’s going to get the 6 people working on legendaries, fire them and take the money for himself, he is merely redeployment them to get us more stuff to play quicker. Over all we’re still getting the same value just in different packages so to speak.

Yeah people love throwing around the word should have been there all along. What they never consider is stuff takes time to build, if Anet waited till it build all the stuff that should have been there all along the game and I mean core GW2 not HoT wouldnt have launched yet because I have no doubt more stuff will be released in the future that people will claim should have been there all along.

- We have seen 5 (well we will once the new bows launch with the next update at least) and thats not counting the original Legendaries that went through the same threatment. Scope of Living story has been changing and amount of people assigned to it has been changing. That not considering that if they intend to keep the quarterly releases most likely they’ll launch all of season 3 at once which means they’d have to finish 6 weeks x2 + 3 monthkittenus amount of work before launching who knows, its hard to say why it took so long before actually knowing the content and how it was released.

- I wouldnt say its failure to estimate impact.. Gw2 has always tried experimental stuff rather then going with tried and tested concepts, that carries risk. No matter what they do they’ll never make everyone happy so what remains is course corrections when they go too far.

- This goes both ways though. If your players arent willing to cut you some slack does that mean you dont try to fix issues? Like when at launch people complained about there being no vertical progression and they’ve put in ascended armor should they have kept doing that ? When Season 1 was temporary and people complained should they have stuck with it anyway? No game can do game design by vox pop, they have to take a decission go with it and then react to the outcome, that means sometimes they get it right sometimes they get it wrong. Problem is people are very bad at remembering the times they got it right and so quick to remember all the times they got it wrong.

-

BrotherBelial.3094:

Mirta.5029:

reported you to the trading standards of UK and hopefully the rest of the people in this topic will report you to their country trading standards too.

On what grounds? Do you know the meaning of the word indefinitely? It means on hold for an undetermined length of time, in its most basic use. Mo has had the brass ones to tell us this. They could have just given us a, it’s taking longer than we though, they’ll be here “when it’s ready”, then just given us “soon” .

Trading standards are not going to tell ANet they have to make the new legendary weapons asap.

All ANet have to tell trading standards is that its a technical design problem, and they full intend to honour what they said, and point out that they did not give us a time frame of when we would be getting them all, only that they would start after the launch of HoT. So in legal terms they have done nothing wrong.

ANet have not said they will never go back to them, and the dream is dead. What they have said is that after the next one, they have no time frame on when we will be getting more, as the team that was working on them has been pulled to work on other projects.

There is nothing trading standards can or will do.

on regular intervals. The first one took 4 months, meaning the next one has a max of 4 months to be released, else the interval is not regular.
That being said you can say that your kickstarter project development is on hold indefinitely. That doesn’t mean that you’ll escape a trade ban. The moment you’re not keeping your word with what is inside the product that you shipped you’re a prime target for a trade ban.

skullfaerie.7203:

Galen Grey.4709:

once very 100 years is a regular interval just saying.

If I may butt in, and I might be going out on a limb here, but I suspect you’ve never heard of terms such as ‘reasonable expectations’? Sorry for interrupting. Please continue arguing semantics

no please interrupt away, I dont mind

of course the 100 years was an exaggeration to prove the point, I am not expecting a legendary weapon every 100 years nor have Anet indicated they have the intention of doing it.

was merely meant as a reply that Anet commited to a timeline by using the word regular interval which clearly is not the case.

IndigoSundown.5419:

All that said, the issues this change draws attention to are disturbing:

• Why does it take so long for ANet to do so many things? In a later post, you mention two months per new L. Weapon. If that’s actually the case, we should have seen 2 more by now, with a 6th due next month. Why does it take them so long to do LS updates, when in LS2 they came out with several chapters across 6-8 weeks with ~3 month hiatuses?
• Why does ANet end up revamping things all the time (NPE, traits, zones, stats, mob armies, now we’re looking at a HoT revamp)? It’s a good thing to be responsive to player complaints, but the need to change so many things might speak to either a failure to judge what is wanted and needed, or a failure to estimate the impact of game design elements on popularity.
• What happens to the relationship between consumer and company when the pattern of behavior by the company leads the consumer to lose faith in the company? Now, maybe this will blow over in a while, or maybe not. In the meantime, it will cost Anet some players. Thing is, they’ve already done a lot of things that cost them players.

• Could be Design Flaws. No proper and easy to use way to implement new Legendaries and/or Journeys into the Game. If so, this could have been prevented by planning and realizing a framework that simplies and speeds up that progress. Unless the limitation here is meshing the models and what not.
• That would Indicate Flaws in Planning and Analytics. Assuming what the consumer might want, instead of asking what the consumer wants. If so, more Player Feedback should have been gathered, or existing Feedback should have been analysed more thoroughly. Also, Communication might be a bottleneck here, apart from other places. Too much trial and error in the lifecycle of the product.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The altenatives where’s it’s between keeping your word and not keeping your word?

Gosh. Let me think on that one.

Not keeping your word can be the immediate, cheap way out of a problem, but be the expensive path later when everytime you promise something or everytime you sell an expansion the time(s) you didn’t keep your word is remembered. The sale of HoT was not as good as they liked. Unless they have these Legendaries out, how well do you think the next expansion will sell when people are questioning every item thats in it, and deciding to wait to buy.

Cheap now can be expensive later.

oohh come on, you seriously think Mike is going through all this trouble just so he doesnt keep his word?

This isnt about keeping your word or breaking it and you know that.

This is between no content until season 3 releases or have some content people can play.

Its not so easy to say what is cheap or expensive here either.

So sure, break your word people might not buy next expansion because of that. Fair point.

Do you think having no new content until Season 3 hits any cheaper? Dont you think people will not buy the expansion based on that too?

How about all the people that didnt buy HoT ? they dont get any new content until Next expansion hits do you think they’re not factored into this as well (provided the interm content they will be working on would apply to them as well)

This is not as easy as a decision to make as you seem to think. Sticking with legendaries does guarantee success or player loyalty.

Mirta.5029:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Mirta.5029:

reported you to the trading standards of UK and hopefully the rest of the people in this topic will report you to their country trading standards too.

On what grounds? Do you know the meaning of the word indefinitely? It means on hold for an undetermined length of time, in its most basic use. Mo has had the brass ones to tell us this. They could have just given us a, it’s taking longer than we though, they’ll be here “when it’s ready”, then just given us “soon” .

Trading standards are not going to tell ANet they have to make the new legendary weapons asap.

All ANet have to tell trading standards is that its a technical design problem, and they full intend to honour what they said, and point out that they did not give us a time frame of when we would be getting them all, only that they would start after the launch of HoT. So in legal terms they have done nothing wrong.

ANet have not said they will never go back to them, and the dream is dead. What they have said is that after the next one, they have no time frame on when we will be getting more, as the team that was working on them has been pulled to work on other projects.

There is nothing trading standards can or will do.

on regular intervals. The first one took 4 months, meaning the next one has a max of 4 months to be released, else the interval is not regular.
That being said you can say that your kickstarter project development is on hold indefinitely. That doesn’t mean that you’ll escape a trade ban. The moment you’re not keeping your word with what is inside the product that you shipped you’re a prime target for a trade ban.

let me be a bit pedantic here… you release 3 at 4 months, 2 at 3 months, 1 at a year, 3 at 4 months, 2 at 3 months, 1 at a year, 3 at 4 months etc…

isnt that releasing at regular intervals too?

sorry for being pendantic but seriosuly regular intervals doesnt dictate a time frame

Galen Grey.4709:

skullfaerie.7203:

Galen Grey.4709:

once very 100 years is a regular interval just saying.

If I may butt in, and I might be going out on a limb here, but I suspect you’ve never heard of terms such as ‘reasonable expectations’? Sorry for interrupting. Please continue arguing semantics

no please interrupt away, I dont mind

of course the 100 years was an exaggeration to prove the point, I am not expecting a legendary weapon every 100 years nor have Anet indicated they have the intention of doing it.

was merely meant as a reply that Anet commited to a timeline by using the word regular interval which clearly is not the case.

Wrong.

They committed to reasonable timelines for release of “items” they advertised before launch of the expansion, for this expansion, yet they already have a team working on the next expansion? A bigger team than is allocated for the deployment of the content of this NOT yet finished expansion content. I call phooey on that… and phooey on what they both (Colin and Mr. O’Brien) stated as their “expectations” for this one according to this video. Watch from: 6:50 to end.

Galen Grey.4709:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The altenatives where’s it’s between keeping your word and not keeping your word?

Gosh. Let me think on that one.

Not keeping your word can be the immediate, cheap way out of a problem, but be the expensive path later when everytime you promise something or everytime you sell an expansion the time(s) you didn’t keep your word is remembered. The sale of HoT was not as good as they liked. Unless they have these Legendaries out, how well do you think the next expansion will sell when people are questioning every item thats in it, and deciding to wait to buy.

Cheap now can be expensive later.

oohh come on, you seriously think Mike is going through all this trouble just so he doesnt keep his word?

This isnt about keeping your word or breaking it and you know that.

This is between no content until season 3 releases or have some content people can play.

Its not so easy to say what is cheap or expensive here either.

So sure, break your word people might not buy next expansion because of that. Fair point.

Do you think having no new content until Season 3 hits any cheaper? Dont you think people will not buy the expansion based on that too?

How about all the people that didnt buy HoT ? they dont get any new content until Next expansion hits do you think they’re not factored into this as well (provided the interm content they will be working on would apply to them as well)

This is not as easy as a decision to make as you seem to think. Sticking with legendaries does guarantee success or player loyalty.

You’re the one who first said the words, “keeping their word”

good of the game that can be considered bad business practices rather then stubbornly hold the course even if they know its going to result in a disaster just for the sake of keeping their word.

After that I was discussing the consequences to a company or person that is known to not keep their word. The consequences of being thought of as “unreliable” can be profound. Twist it around as you will to make “not keeping your word” a minor point to the company and to its consumers. We’ll see how it pans out.

Galen Grey.4709:

Mirta.5029:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Mirta.5029:

reported you to the trading standards of UK and hopefully the rest of the people in this topic will report you to their country trading standards too.

On what grounds? Do you know the meaning of the word indefinitely? It means on hold for an undetermined length of time, in its most basic use. Mo has had the brass ones to tell us this. They could have just given us a, it’s taking longer than we though, they’ll be here “when it’s ready”, then just given us “soon” .

Trading standards are not going to tell ANet they have to make the new legendary weapons asap.

All ANet have to tell trading standards is that its a technical design problem, and they full intend to honour what they said, and point out that they did not give us a time frame of when we would be getting them all, only that they would start after the launch of HoT. So in legal terms they have done nothing wrong.

ANet have not said they will never go back to them, and the dream is dead. What they have said is that after the next one, they have no time frame on when we will be getting more, as the team that was working on them has been pulled to work on other projects.

There is nothing trading standards can or will do.

on regular intervals. The first one took 4 months, meaning the next one has a max of 4 months to be released, else the interval is not regular.
That being said you can say that your kickstarter project development is on hold indefinitely. That doesn’t mean that you’ll escape a trade ban. The moment you’re not keeping your word with what is inside the product that you shipped you’re a prime target for a trade ban.

let me be a bit pedantic here… you release 3 at 4 months, 2 at 3 months, 1 at a year, 3 at 4 months, 2 at 3 months, 1 at a year, 3 at 4 months etc…

isnt that releasing at regular intervals too?

sorry for being pendantic but seriosuly regular intervals doesnt dictate a time frame

your example was literally an irregular interval just now, just saying. the term “regular” pretty much dictates that they rate of time between each interval stays the same, otherwise it wouldnt be regular.