Legendary weapons

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

I just wanted to chime in and add that I agree with the decision to suspend the new Legendary Weapons.

Legendaries are enjoyed by a very small percentage of players, so if making them angry in the short term helps end the content drought that ALL players are currently suffering through, so be it.

It always sucks to be the one who eats the cut (everyone has had their turn in that barrel, so you aren’t special or being singled out this time), but the health of the entire game is at stake here so you have to look at the big picture.

Ethically, Anet is the one that’s supposed to eat the cut here though.

Statements of intention with regard to software should never be believed prior to the release of said software.

It’s a lesson everyone will eventually hate learning, but learn nonetheless.

Basically, people who pre-pay for software are suckers and software companies love suckers.

Server: Devona’s Rest

(edited by mtpelion.4562)

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

You wouldn’t buy a car, and the guy show you one and say, this care is great it can do allsorts of things. You can buy it right now, but the wheels will not be ready for awhile, and we don’t have a time frame. Would you buy that car?

Bad analogy. HoT was the product; Legendary Journeys were a service packaged with it. People buy services packaged with cars all the time(roadside assistance, warrantys, event invites, vehicle service, coupons etc) and those company’s are expected to make good on their services.

The analogy is a bad one that is true, but it was a simple way to get my point across.

i5 4690K @ 3.5Mhz|8GB HyperX Savage 1600mHz|MSI H81M-E34|MSI GTX 960 Gaming 2GB|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ticky.5831

Ticky.5831

My constructive criticsism is hire 6 new people so that you don’t have to scrap the project.

Borrow against a bankable asset if you have to.

(edited by Ticky.5831)

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ticky.5831

Ticky.5831

I just wanted to chime in and add that I agree with the decision to suspend the new Legendary Weapons.

Legendaries are enjoyed by a very small percentage of players, so if making them angry in the short term helps end the content drought that ALL players are currently suffering through, so be it.

It always sucks to be the one who eats the cut (everyone has had their turn in that barrel, so you aren’t special or being singled out this time), but the health of the entire game is at stake here so you have to look at the big picture.

Ethically, Anet is the one that’s supposed to eat the cut here though.

Statements of intention with regard to software should never be believed prior to the release of said software.

It’s a lesson everyone will eventually hate learning, but learn nonetheless.

It’s not an intention though. It’s an advertised service.

Hold people accountable for their actions so you have a precedent of not being vulnerable to being taken for advantage. It’s a lesson involving sacrifice, but it’s worth learning.

(edited by Ticky.5831)

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Voonith.2561

Voonith.2561

ArenaNet’s upcoming expansion gets no support from me until they’ve fixed WvW, FotM and Dungeons, and delivered on the new Legendaries.

All’s fair in love and Wuv.
[ART] Gate of Madness

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: mrstealth.6701

mrstealth.6701

If they didn’t “intend” to return to it, they would have said “canceled”. Think – not many in this thread are. They are yelling and screaming instead. They have a right to be disappointed, sure, but they aren’t looking at the big picture, only their tiny little corner of the game. I, too, am disappointed, but as I stated I offered ideas on how to proceed to mitigate the issue. But you’d have to search thousands of posts of yelling and screaming to find any of the great suggestions. Very sad.

If they actually stated the feature was cancelled, it would open them up to much easier claims of false advertising. An indefinite delay is much more ambiguous, and leaves them more room to counter such claims.

I’m not saying this actually means it is cancelled. Just that even if it were, they would be quite stupid to actually say it. We have no way of actually knowing what their intentions are at this point, but I do have to say that it doesn’t look favorable for us as customers.

Footsteps Of War [FoW] | Yak’s Bend
Seer Of The Divine | Sarina Starlight | Tireasa | Caedyra

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vlad Morbius.1759

Vlad Morbius.1759

Here are some of the ideas and suggestions that have been lost in all the screaming and yelling:
1. Make the HoT precursors drop from mobs in the HoT areas like the old versions did in Tyria. RNG baby. – Creating the legendary adventure is one of the primary things delaying them. Everything must work and be there.
2. Create Skin Recipes for the new legendaries. Sell them at vendors in the HoT area for a large sum in the zone currency. Then make and old legendary and skin it.
3. Unlock Legendary Armor from the Raid and make them obtainable outside of raids. That’s 18 legendaries available to make. See #1 for how to get them. Though they still have to create the legendary armor. Also make the recipe simple, like old legendaries. No adventure involved, except for dungeons and such.

That’s the 3 I’ve seen, as there is just too much venom in this thread to read every complaint, threat, and scream.

Let’s be constructive and a little more mature. Sure be upset/angry/disappointed. But be constructive in your response.

Exactly what should be discussed at this point. This is a done deal so at least if they decide they can offer them in another way they can at the very least salvage the actual skins and such and wether it be though RNG or through other means like major dynamic events etc.

Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??

(edited by Vlad Morbius.1759)

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Heibi.4251

Heibi.4251

Here are some of the ideas and suggestions that have been lost in all the screaming and yelling:
1. Make the HoT precursors drop from mobs in the HoT areas like the old versions did in Tyria. RNG baby. – Creating the legendary adventure is one of the primary things delaying them. Everything must work and be there.

2. Create Skin Recipes for the new legendaries. Sell them at vendors in the HoT area for a large sum in the zone currency. Then make and old legendary and skin it.

3. Unlock Legendary Armor from the Raid and make them obtainable outside of raids. That’s 18 legendaries available to make. See #1 for how to get them. Though they still have to create the legendary armor. Also make the recipe simple, like old legendaries. No adventure involved, except for dungeons and such.

4. Hire 6 new people so that you don’t have to scrap the project. Borrow against a bankable asset if you have to.

That’s 4 now.

Leader of Central Anime(CA)
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Akkeros.1675

Akkeros.1675

based on this thread and the outrage over a few new skins I predict a little less white knighting on the wvw forums defending the HoT xpac
But, I agree with the direction Mo is going with the company. A few skins vs 3 game modes that need to be fixed…yeah, work on the core game itself then add those things back in. However, in defense of those that have to have their legendaries…if it takes so much dev time to engineer the skin and means of acquiring, you are making it wayyyy too complicated. K.I.S.S.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: blackheartgary.8605

blackheartgary.8605

Greetings and Salutations.
To the President of Arena Net, I want to thank you for the news regarding the latest changes. I am certain that you are making the tough decisions (and judging from these rants and raves and whinings, taking it on the chin) with our best interests at heart.
If there is one thing I do understand, it is that in business when a change in the leadership of any company, no matter how big or small occurs, a ripple effect takes place. changes in corporate structure, direction of production, heck, even changes in hours of operation… everything gets placed on the table. While most do not notice these changes as consumers of the product(they just go on consuming as consumers do), in the video gaming industry in particular, when a change in direction on a product is revealed, consumers of that product will not only notice, they will most likely respond in either a highly positive or highly negative manner.
no truer example of this response can be found than right here in this forum on this particular thread.
consumers, players of GW2, be they players since the beginning, hardcore gamers, or casuals, or perhaps even new players, are responding to the statements you made, and personally i think they are being just a wee bit unfair and unrealistic.
As a player of Guild wars and Sequentially Guild Wars 2, I have watched as the story of the GW universe story line has progressed. when it got right down to the meat and bones of the game itself, the game was driven by 3 things, in this very order: content, story, and community. In other words, your company produced a product that we, the consumers actually had the opportunity to not only consume, but add our two and a half cents to to make it our own. On this fact alone, every player… every single player of this game that is still playing to this day, should be not only thanking themselves for playing, they should be thanking the company for producing. Concurrently, When a business decision is made and changes are taking place in production of the very product we consume, we as the consumers of said product should not only welcome the changes with open arms, but we should be thankful that the product is still going in the first place. Of course, for those that aren’t satisfied with this product, there are alternatives. that’s why we have Coca-cola AND Pepsi and not just one brand.
Now all business talk aside.
If Guild Wars 2 was all about seeing how many legendary weapons you could grind out and acquire in a given time frame, and the game was item-grind based, I could understand the flame rants that are taking place here. I could even understand the posters that are stating that they were promised a complete set of legendary weapons with the release of HoT. I mean, they read the same thing I did. But Mike, I also know one truth that people are overlooking, and if they were paying attention in the past months or so, they would have noticed it… and I also believe this is why you made the tough decision:
In the previous months, in Guild Chat, there were talks that the core content of the game, that WVW, PVP, HoT, and Fractals, all needed a bit of polishing. In other words, the car we are driving is getting a tune-up rather than some new set of shiny rims we really don’t need at this time and truthfully can do without. Mind you, I fully understand the points of view that people were expecting a full set of legendary weapons and armor. and for those of you that are only playing this game for the shinies, I am truly sorry but not only are you missing out, but the Skritt have you beat.
The Game is NOT about gear grinding. The element is there, as with all other MMOs, but that, unfortunately for all of you, is not the sole reason for playing Guild Wars 2 and if it is I am truly sorry but you are missing out on the rest of the world that was created by these hard working men and women. The game has a need for polishing and that’s exactly what Arena Net stated what they were going to focus on and that’s exactly what they are doing. and… for the record, Indefinately suspending does NOT mean cancelling. it means that the development of legendary weapons, for the time being, is halted until the time eventually comes when it is possible to start again, and that is not in the foreseeable future. I would think that if Mike was going to cancel plans on making legendary weapons he would have stated “making legendary weapons as of this time is cancelled”. Instead, I think Mike has chosen to follow the path that was set before him, which is to polish the game… to fine tune it… to get the systems that need to work actually work, and to, if there is a Living World S3 coming, get the world of Tyria ready for it.
Forgive My flippancy, but Cut the man some slack and stahp with the whining about not getting new legendary weapons. I would Think that If ArenaNet tells you they are going to do something, they will. You need to simply be patient and let the company(a company you are more than likely NOT working for and therefore do not know how they operate) handle the business of what they need to do presently before they submit to the peer pressure of gear hungry players.Trust me. You all paid for the product and ArenaNet will deliver. Just be patient.
Thank you for your time and attention.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

Here are some of the ideas and suggestions that have been lost in all the screaming and yelling:
1. Make the HoT precursors drop from mobs in the HoT areas like the old versions did in Tyria. RNG baby. – Creating the legendary adventure is one of the primary things delaying them. Everything must work and be there.

2. Create Skin Recipes for the new legendaries. Sell them at vendors in the HoT area for a large sum in the zone currency. Then make and old legendary and skin it.

3. Unlock Legendary Armor from the Raid and make them obtainable outside of raids. That’s 18 legendaries available to make. See #1 for how to get them. Though they still have to create the legendary armor. Also make the recipe simple, like old legendaries. No adventure involved, except for dungeons and such.

4. Hire 6 new people so that you don’t have to scrap the project. Borrow against a bankable asset if you have to.

That’s 4 now.

My number 5 : put one precursor as reward of entering legendary division during a PvP season (ofc still non-tradable). Legendary people deserve legendary weapons

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Spira.4578

Spira.4578

Guys, I understand that you are all really upset…
I still think that what some of us fail to understand is that this is how game industry works… I explain myself… you should not buy a game because the devs promised to add more content after the release that will compensate what the game is lacking from the start, that is your fault, I’m sorry, but it is true. You can’t trust a company that far because kitten-ups happen and things change and maybe something that they really want to ship never comes to life because they can’t find a way to do it or they need too much time. It was their fault to make some of us continue to think that the ideas, that what was planned was definitive and that it was a promise, to never iterate on the issue saying that they are trying but they can’t be sure themselves to deliver, because that is how making a game works. There’s no magic wand that will make the game interesting and fun, it is a process of trying out, and some times you find that is much better to put something on hold instead of sacrificing the results. Would you prefer the Legendaries to come out half finished? Or broken? OMG anet is shipping half the work done again! That’s what you would read again on the forums.
That in my opinion is what MO is trying to do, he figured out that is not going in the right direction and instead of fake it and make people think that they are doing it, instead of shipping half backed content, he is telling us that they are placing the Legendaries on hold, it does not mean that they will never come, in the future I’m sure that they will return on them but for now they are focusing on something that have better chances to be delivered in a short time and in good state.
Still, even if things are not great recently, I look around and couldn’t find any MMO that keeps me engaged as Gw2, and I’m sure that this is the same for a ot of other people, and that is why we get so upset and feel betrayed but instead of leaving and migrate to another game we are still here complaining.

Expecting MO to say that the Hot release was a bad choice that it was a mess is not something that will ever happen! Just because, if he is still running the company it means he believes that even if things didn’t go as planned it is still a project worth the time. If MO says something like that, then you can be sure that GW2 has no future.

MO is trying to change things, obviously he is trying to do it for the better, not everyone agrees but none of us knows what is happening internally at Anet, what was the extension of the problem.
If things will be really better only time knows.
I will keep playing and if I finish every thing I like in this game, get too kittened off about some release or find something better, I will stop playing the game! If Anet doesn’t deliver any good content the next expansion isn’t worth that name I will not pay for anything else.

It seems you fail to understand how business works.
Customer pays. Provider delivers.
It’s not Customer pays. Prodiver delivers partialy and changes the deal on it’s own without consulting the customer.
It litereally doesn’t matter what the story behind the curtains is. From the customers point the only thing that we should ask is:
Did we get everything that we paid for?
And the answer to it is: no.
It literally doesn’t matter WHY – at least not to us. Same as they don’t care how we got the money to pay for their game we shouldn’t care how they are working on the promoted features.
Don’t sympatize with your seller, because as soon as you do, the seller will use your kindness – which is exactly what was and still is happening with this game.

Exactly for the life of me, I cannot understand people sympathizing with Anet on this one and saying it is ok. This effects everyone that bought the expansion. What if next O’Brien says “we are suspending work on new fractals indefinitely”, will this be OK? What if he said “We are not bringing out Legendary armor as only a small percentage of the player base will actually get the gear” is this ok too?

These features where promised with HoT if he can just drop Legendary weapons he can other features too. Wake up people, as a consumer you should get what you pay for!

Nothing you have listed was promised with HoT. They said it would cone after launch. No time frame was given. They only thing they have really gone back on as far as the legendary weapons are concerned is the regular intervals. We knew they would not be included with HoT at launch. Same for raids and legendary armor. Bit ANet told us we needed HoT to be able to get them. So really people got HoT so they could do and get these things later, not as soon as HoT dropped. When I buy something I know I’m buying what’s in front of me. Not what is to be added later on. Would the addition of things sway people to buy HoT, of course it would, ANet knew that, that’s why they talked about these features. Features that where not included with HoT at launch, because they knew HoT didn’t offer much at launch compared to other expansions from other MMO’s or even the campaigns from GW1.

So they focuses on the things coming after, which was wrong, it did make it look like they where a part of HoT, but in reality they where not. That is why I’ve always said HoT is not an expansion, it’s a DLC season pass. The things ANet bigged up where to be added later. I’m not defending ANet, and I have no sympathy, ANet messed up by making a big deal out of things that where not finished or anywhere near being ready. Now this storm is of there own making. But at the same time people who got HoT got it knowing that legendary weapons where not included at launch, and where not all ready. That was there mistake, believing they where buying something that was not there to start with.

You wouldn’t buy a car, and the guy show you one and say, this care is great it can do allsorts of things. You can buy it right now, but the wheels will not be ready for awhile, and we don’t have a time frame. Would you buy that car?

“we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game”
1 month after release: 3 weapons
4 months after the 1st release: 1 weapon
indefinitelly stopped: 0 weapons.

Not even Einstein could come up with a theory to make a 1:4:never interval a regular one as well as make 1 weapon and 0 weapons “small groups” – a group consists of at least 2.
At the same time, there were other features like Fractal Leaderbords, Guild Anthem, masteries like Bark cutting and downward gliding, which also didn’t see the light of day.
Please don’t defend them.
Did we pay a full expansion? yes
Did we get all of the features? no.
End. of.story.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ticky.5831

Ticky.5831

The game is not about gear grinding, but it’s certainly about the shinies.

Also, you have no authority to tell me what to do (soclosetousingabusivelanguagerightnow).

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

Guys, I understand that you are all really upset…
I still think that what some of us fail to understand is that this is how game industry works… I explain myself… you should not buy a game because the devs promised to add more content after the release that will compensate what the game is lacking from the start, that is your fault, I’m sorry, but it is true. You can’t trust a company that far because kitten-ups happen and things change and maybe something that they really want to ship never comes to life because they can’t find a way to do it or they need too much time. It was their fault to make some of us continue to think that the ideas, that what was planned was definitive and that it was a promise, to never iterate on the issue saying that they are trying but they can’t be sure themselves to deliver, because that is how making a game works. There’s no magic wand that will make the game interesting and fun, it is a process of trying out, and some times you find that is much better to put something on hold instead of sacrificing the results. Would you prefer the Legendaries to come out half finished? Or broken? OMG anet is shipping half the work done again! That’s what you would read again on the forums.
That in my opinion is what MO is trying to do, he figured out that is not going in the right direction and instead of fake it and make people think that they are doing it, instead of shipping half backed content, he is telling us that they are placing the Legendaries on hold, it does not mean that they will never come, in the future I’m sure that they will return on them but for now they are focusing on something that have better chances to be delivered in a short time and in good state.
Still, even if things are not great recently, I look around and couldn’t find any MMO that keeps me engaged as Gw2, and I’m sure that this is the same for a ot of other people, and that is why we get so upset and feel betrayed but instead of leaving and migrate to another game we are still here complaining.

Expecting MO to say that the Hot release was a bad choice that it was a mess is not something that will ever happen! Just because, if he is still running the company it means he believes that even if things didn’t go as planned it is still a project worth the time. If MO says something like that, then you can be sure that GW2 has no future.

MO is trying to change things, obviously he is trying to do it for the better, not everyone agrees but none of us knows what is happening internally at Anet, what was the extension of the problem.
If things will be really better only time knows.
I will keep playing and if I finish every thing I like in this game, get too kittened off about some release or find something better, I will stop playing the game! If Anet doesn’t deliver any good content the next expansion isn’t worth that name I will not pay for anything else.

It seems you fail to understand how business works.
Customer pays. Provider delivers.
It’s not Customer pays. Prodiver delivers partialy and changes the deal on it’s own without consulting the customer.
It litereally doesn’t matter what the story behind the curtains is. From the customers point the only thing that we should ask is:
Did we get everything that we paid for?
And the answer to it is: no.
It literally doesn’t matter WHY – at least not to us. Same as they don’t care how we got the money to pay for their game we shouldn’t care how they are working on the promoted features.
Don’t sympatize with your seller, because as soon as you do, the seller will use your kindness – which is exactly what was and still is happening with this game.

Exactly for the life of me, I cannot understand people sympathizing with Anet on this one and saying it is ok. This effects everyone that bought the expansion. What if next O’Brien says “we are suspending work on new fractals indefinitely”, will this be OK? What if he said “We are not bringing out Legendary armor as only a small percentage of the player base will actually get the gear” is this ok too?

These features where promised with HoT if he can just drop Legendary weapons he can other features too. Wake up people, as a consumer you should get what you pay for!

Nothing you have listed was promised with HoT. They said it would cone after launch. No time frame was given. They only thing they have really gone back on as far as the legendary weapons are concerned is the regular intervals. We knew they would not be included with HoT at launch. Same for raids and legendary armor. Bit ANet told us we needed HoT to be able to get them. So really people got HoT so they could do and get these things later, not as soon as HoT dropped. When I buy something I know I’m buying what’s in front of me. Not what is to be added later on. Would the addition of things sway people to buy HoT, of course it would, ANet knew that, that’s why they talked about these features. Features that where not included with HoT at launch, because they knew HoT didn’t offer much at launch compared to other expansions from other MMO’s or even the campaigns from GW1.

So they focuses on the things coming after, which was wrong, it did make it look like they where a part of HoT, but in reality they where not. That is why I’ve always said HoT is not an expansion, it’s a DLC season pass. The things ANet bigged up where to be added later. I’m not defending ANet, and I have no sympathy, ANet messed up by making a big deal out of things that where not finished or anywhere near being ready. Now this storm is of there own making. But at the same time people who got HoT got it knowing that legendary weapons where not included at launch, and where not all ready. That was there mistake, believing they where buying something that was not there to start with.

You wouldn’t buy a car, and the guy show you one and say, this care is great it can do allsorts of things. You can buy it right now, but the wheels will not be ready for awhile, and we don’t have a time frame. Would you buy that car?

“we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game”
1 month after release: 3 weapons
4 months after the 1st release: 1 weapon
indefinitelly stopped: 0 weapons.

Not even Einstein could come up with a theory to make a 1:4:never interval a regular one as well as make 1 weapon and 0 weapons “small groups” – a group consists of at least 2.
At the same time, there were other features like Fractal Leaderbords, Guild Anthem, masteries like Bark cutting and downward gliding, which also didn’t see the light of day.
Please don’t defend them.
Did we pay a full expansion? yes
Did we get all of the features? no.
End. of.story.

You didn’t even read my post, or you didn’t understand what you read.

i5 4690K @ 3.5Mhz|8GB HyperX Savage 1600mHz|MSI H81M-E34|MSI GTX 960 Gaming 2GB|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Spira.4578

Spira.4578

based on this thread and the outrage over a few new skins I predict a little less white knighting on the wvw forums defending the HoT xpac
But, I agree with the direction Mo is going with the company. A few skins vs 3 game modes that need to be fixed…yeah, work on the core game itself then add those things back in. However, in defense of those that have to have their legendaries…if it takes so much dev time to engineer the skin and means of acquiring, you are making it wayyyy too complicated. K.I.S.S.

They are gonna work on the LS, not on sPvP or WvW.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: MastaNeenja.1537

MastaNeenja.1537

I am so glad I did not buy HOT. I knew it wouldn’t be worth 50$ and to me it was confirmed when they rolled HOT together with the core game as the only way to purchase it.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I suppose there’s no grounds to make Anet accountable for their reversal via a class action lawsuit, but it doesn’t seem right that they can sell something and then decide for whatever reason that they are no longer going to deliver what people paid for.

MMO developers really can get away with things other, more traditional businesses can’t.

report it to the trade association of their country. Legally sueing them might be a problem, but preventing them from trading in your country and selling their products is relatively easy. Report them for false advertisement, photograph that 16 lagendaries advert for HoT and the first post of this topic.

It is also important to note that even though you might have purchased HoT a long time ago, if you go and show all of this to your bank and say “I’ve been deceived”, they CAN charge back if ArenaNet refuses to refund you. This will obviously ban you from playing GW2 ever again, but if you weren’t going to play it anyway, it’s an option.

It’s really not that easy. Because false advertising almost always requires you to prove intent to deceive. If situations change and something can’t get delivered, that isn’t considered false advertising in any country I know of.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Spira.4578

Spira.4578

Guys, I understand that you are all really upset…
I still think that what some of us fail to understand is that this is how game industry works… I explain myself… you should not buy a game because the devs promised to add more content after the release that will compensate what the game is lacking from the start, that is your fault, I’m sorry, but it is true. You can’t trust a company that far because kitten-ups happen and things change and maybe something that they really want to ship never comes to life because they can’t find a way to do it or they need too much time. It was their fault to make some of us continue to think that the ideas, that what was planned was definitive and that it was a promise, to never iterate on the issue saying that they are trying but they can’t be sure themselves to deliver, because that is how making a game works. There’s no magic wand that will make the game interesting and fun, it is a process of trying out, and some times you find that is much better to put something on hold instead of sacrificing the results. Would you prefer the Legendaries to come out half finished? Or broken? OMG anet is shipping half the work done again! That’s what you would read again on the forums.
That in my opinion is what MO is trying to do, he figured out that is not going in the right direction and instead of fake it and make people think that they are doing it, instead of shipping half backed content, he is telling us that they are placing the Legendaries on hold, it does not mean that they will never come, in the future I’m sure that they will return on them but for now they are focusing on something that have better chances to be delivered in a short time and in good state.
Still, even if things are not great recently, I look around and couldn’t find any MMO that keeps me engaged as Gw2, and I’m sure that this is the same for a ot of other people, and that is why we get so upset and feel betrayed but instead of leaving and migrate to another game we are still here complaining.

Expecting MO to say that the Hot release was a bad choice that it was a mess is not something that will ever happen! Just because, if he is still running the company it means he believes that even if things didn’t go as planned it is still a project worth the time. If MO says something like that, then you can be sure that GW2 has no future.

MO is trying to change things, obviously he is trying to do it for the better, not everyone agrees but none of us knows what is happening internally at Anet, what was the extension of the problem.
If things will be really better only time knows.
I will keep playing and if I finish every thing I like in this game, get too kittened off about some release or find something better, I will stop playing the game! If Anet doesn’t deliver any good content the next expansion isn’t worth that name I will not pay for anything else.

It seems you fail to understand how business works.
Customer pays. Provider delivers.
It’s not Customer pays. Prodiver delivers partialy and changes the deal on it’s own without consulting the customer.
It litereally doesn’t matter what the story behind the curtains is. From the customers point the only thing that we should ask is:
Did we get everything that we paid for?
And the answer to it is: no.
It literally doesn’t matter WHY – at least not to us. Same as they don’t care how we got the money to pay for their game we shouldn’t care how they are working on the promoted features.
Don’t sympatize with your seller, because as soon as you do, the seller will use your kindness – which is exactly what was and still is happening with this game.

Exactly for the life of me, I cannot understand people sympathizing with Anet on this one and saying it is ok. This effects everyone that bought the expansion. What if next O’Brien says “we are suspending work on new fractals indefinitely”, will this be OK? What if he said “We are not bringing out Legendary armor as only a small percentage of the player base will actually get the gear” is this ok too?

These features where promised with HoT if he can just drop Legendary weapons he can other features too. Wake up people, as a consumer you should get what you pay for!

Nothing you have listed was promised with HoT. They said it would cone after launch. No time frame was given. They only thing they have really gone back on as far as the legendary weapons are concerned is the regular intervals. We knew they would not be included with HoT at launch. Same for raids and legendary armor. Bit ANet told us we needed HoT to be able to get them. So really people got HoT so they could do and get these things later, not as soon as HoT dropped. When I buy something I know I’m buying what’s in front of me. Not what is to be added later on. Would the addition of things sway people to buy HoT, of course it would, ANet knew that, that’s why they talked about these features. Features that where not included with HoT at launch, because they knew HoT didn’t offer much at launch compared to other expansions from other MMO’s or even the campaigns from GW1.

So they focuses on the things coming after, which was wrong, it did make it look like they where a part of HoT, but in reality they where not. That is why I’ve always said HoT is not an expansion, it’s a DLC season pass. The things ANet bigged up where to be added later. I’m not defending ANet, and I have no sympathy, ANet messed up by making a big deal out of things that where not finished or anywhere near being ready. Now this storm is of there own making. But at the same time people who got HoT got it knowing that legendary weapons where not included at launch, and where not all ready. That was there mistake, believing they where buying something that was not there to start with.

You wouldn’t buy a car, and the guy show you one and say, this care is great it can do allsorts of things. You can buy it right now, but the wheels will not be ready for awhile, and we don’t have a time frame. Would you buy that car?

“we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game”
1 month after release: 3 weapons
4 months after the 1st release: 1 weapon
indefinitelly stopped: 0 weapons.

Not even Einstein could come up with a theory to make a 1:4:never interval a regular one as well as make 1 weapon and 0 weapons “small groups” – a group consists of at least 2.
At the same time, there were other features like Fractal Leaderbords, Guild Anthem, masteries like Bark cutting and downward gliding, which also didn’t see the light of day.
Please don’t defend them.
Did we pay a full expansion? yes
Did we get all of the features? no.
End. of.story.

You didn’t even read my post, or you didn’t understand what you read.

I did. but even if you think you are not defending them, you are doing just that. And you literally don’t have to.
Once again – the only thing you need to know as a customer is if you got what you paid for – and the answer is NO.
It doesn’t matter how you look at it. Either including the missing features or the actual expansion.
The features weren’t that many to begin with, but most of us dealt with this fact.
Now, reducing the features even further “so they can work on the core game” – while they
1.) Had the money from the core game sale when we first bought it to use on fixing the core game but apparently rather used it on something else.
2.) HAVE 70 devs working on a new expac while they feel that is essential to cut off 6 developers working on one of the features that we already bought
3.) are telling people that they are unfair for thinking that what we got is an unfinished product (while it actually is unfinished)

didn’t really help calming down the crowd. don’t you think?
There’s is NO explanation that would make it okay for them to cancel something that they were selling for 5 months.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: AysonCurrax.3254

AysonCurrax.3254

I suppose there’s no grounds to make Anet accountable for their reversal via a class action lawsuit, but it doesn’t seem right that they can sell something and then decide for whatever reason that they are no longer going to deliver what people paid for.

MMO developers really can get away with things other, more traditional businesses can’t.

report it to the trade association of their country. Legally sueing them might be a problem, but preventing them from trading in your country and selling their products is relatively easy. Report them for false advertisement, photograph that 16 lagendaries advert for HoT and the first post of this topic.

It is also important to note that even though you might have purchased HoT a long time ago, if you go and show all of this to your bank and say “I’ve been deceived”, they CAN charge back if ArenaNet refuses to refund you. This will obviously ban you from playing GW2 ever again, but if you weren’t going to play it anyway, it’s an option.

It’s really not that easy. Because false advertising almost always requires you to prove intent to deceive. If situations change and something can’t get delivered, that isn’t considered false advertising in any country I know of.

Then perhaps they should reconsider hyping the hell out of everything they do going:

“We are going to do the thing. The Thing will be amazing. People will enjoy the thing. The Thing is very exciting.”

only to end up going something like this a short time later:

“We couldnt do the thing. Instead of the thing, we are now going to do the other thing, while also working on the next big thing. The thing has now become schroedingers thing, because we may fix it, or we may not.”

It reeks of bad managment, and there is no way to argue with that.
Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Mishoo.5918

Mishoo.5918

… Because false advertising almost always requires you to prove intent to deceive. If situations change and something can’t get delivered, that isn’t considered false advertising in any country I know of.

I do not realize what can be worse: to be labeled as deceiver to or be labeled as incompetent.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

It reeks of bad managment, and there is no way to argue with that.
Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

It is the industry standard in software. I know everyone is mad at ArenaNet right now, but you cannot find a software company that does NOT do this exactly the same way.

Server: Devona’s Rest

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Heibi.4251

Heibi.4251

Here are some of the ideas and suggestions that have been lost in all the screaming and yelling:
1. Make the HoT precursors drop from mobs in the HoT areas like the old versions did in Tyria. RNG baby. – Creating the legendary adventure is one of the primary things delaying them. Everything must work and be there.

2. Create Skin Recipes for the new legendaries. Sell them at vendors in the HoT area for a large sum in the zone currency. Then make and old legendary and skin it.

3. Unlock Legendary Armor from the Raid and make them obtainable outside of raids. That’s 18 legendaries available to make. See #1 for how to get them. Though they still have to create the legendary armor. Also make the recipe simple, like old legendaries. No adventure involved, except for dungeons and such.

4. Hire 6 new people so that you don’t have to scrap the project. Borrow against a bankable asset if you have to.

5 : put one precursor as reward of entering legendary division during a PvP season (ofc still non-tradable). Legendary people deserve legendary weapons.

I’ll keep updating as I find/see them.

Leader of Central Anime(CA)
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Spira.4578

Spira.4578

It reeks of bad managment, and there is no way to argue with that.
Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

It is the industry standard in software. I know everyone is mad at ArenaNet right now, but you cannot find a software company that does NOT do this exactly the same way.

No buts, no what ifs.
Did we get what we paid for? No.
Are they indefinitelly canceling what we paid for? yes.
As a customer I want to see the product I paid being delivered in it’s intended form.

I’m sure that ANET knew that there would be issues with the legendary team, as MO, in his first post said, that the team would be working on the legendaries for years to come … You don’t realize this 5 months after the team was only able to produce 1 weapon. I mean honestly,think about it – If your team was only able to get 3 legies done during the whole development of the expansion (while 1 of the legies was already ingame for 2 years), then you probably wouldn’t use this feature as a selling point. Especially not with a big title and a long blog post about them. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Carbon Footprint.3421

Carbon Footprint.3421

As a Fashion Wars 2 player, this just solidifies why I didn’t buy HoT. Can’t make new armor or Legendaries, but oh look here’s another 4 outfits in the gem store. If you want to focus on content quit focusing on the gem store. HoT never was and never will be 5/6 of the content of GW2. But look they’re working on another expansion already…

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

Guys, I understand that you are all really upset…
I still think that what some of us fail to understand is that this is how game industry works… I explain myself… you should not buy a game because the devs promised to add more content after the release that will compensate what the game is lacking from the start, that is your fault, I’m sorry, but it is true. You can’t trust a company that far because kitten-ups happen and things change and maybe something that they really want to ship never comes to life because they can’t find a way to do it or they need too much time. It was their fault to make some of us continue to think that the ideas, that what was planned was definitive and that it was a promise, to never iterate on the issue saying that they are trying but they can’t be sure themselves to deliver, because that is how making a game works. There’s no magic wand that will make the game interesting and fun, it is a process of trying out, and some times you find that is much better to put something on hold instead of sacrificing the results. Would you prefer the Legendaries to come out half finished? Or broken? OMG anet is shipping half the work done again! That’s what you would read again on the forums.
That in my opinion is what MO is trying to do, he figured out that is not going in the right direction and instead of fake it and make people think that they are doing it, instead of shipping half backed content, he is telling us that they are placing the Legendaries on hold, it does not mean that they will never come, in the future I’m sure that they will return on them but for now they are focusing on something that have better chances to be delivered in a short time and in good state.
Still, even if things are not great recently, I look around and couldn’t find any MMO that keeps me engaged as Gw2, and I’m sure that this is the same for a ot of other people, and that is why we get so upset and feel betrayed but instead of leaving and migrate to another game we are still here complaining.

Expecting MO to say that the Hot release was a bad choice that it was a mess is not something that will ever happen! Just because, if he is still running the company it means he believes that even if things didn’t go as planned it is still a project worth the time. If MO says something like that, then you can be sure that GW2 has no future.

MO is trying to change things, obviously he is trying to do it for the better, not everyone agrees but none of us knows what is happening internally at Anet, what was the extension of the problem.
If things will be really better only time knows.
I will keep playing and if I finish every thing I like in this game, get too kittened off about some release or find something better, I will stop playing the game! If Anet doesn’t deliver any good content the next expansion isn’t worth that name I will not pay for anything else.

It seems you fail to understand how business works.
Customer pays. Provider delivers.
It’s not Customer pays. Prodiver delivers partialy and changes the deal on it’s own without consulting the customer.
It litereally doesn’t matter what the story behind the curtains is. From the customers point the only thing that we should ask is:
Did we get everything that we paid for?
And the answer to it is: no.
It literally doesn’t matter WHY – at least not to us. Same as they don’t care how we got the money to pay for their game we shouldn’t care how they are working on the promoted features.
Don’t sympatize with your seller, because as soon as you do, the seller will use your kindness – which is exactly what was and still is happening with this game.

Exactly for the life of me, I cannot understand people sympathizing with Anet on this one and saying it is ok. This effects everyone that bought the expansion. What if next O’Brien says “we are suspending work on new fractals indefinitely”, will this be OK? What if he said “We are not bringing out Legendary armor as only a small percentage of the player base will actually get the gear” is this ok too?

These features where promised with HoT if he can just drop Legendary weapons he can other features too. Wake up people, as a consumer you should get what you pay for!

Nothing you have listed was promised with HoT. They said it would cone after launch. No time frame was given. They only thing they have really gone back on as far as the legendary weapons are concerned is the regular intervals. We knew they would not be included with HoT at launch. Same for raids and legendary armor. Bit ANet told us we needed HoT to be able to get them. So really people got HoT so they could do and get these things later, not as soon as HoT dropped. When I buy something I know I’m buying what’s in front of me. Not what is to be added later on. Would the addition of things sway people to buy HoT, of course it would, ANet knew that, that’s why they talked about these features. Features that where not included with HoT at launch, because they knew HoT didn’t offer much at launch compared to other expansions from other MMO’s or even the campaigns from GW1.

So they focuses on the things coming after, which was wrong, it did make it look like they where a part of HoT, but in reality they where not. That is why I’ve always said HoT is not an expansion, it’s a DLC season pass. The things ANet bigged up where to be added later. I’m not defending ANet, and I have no sympathy, ANet messed up by making a big deal out of things that where not finished or anywhere near being ready. Now this storm is of there own making. But at the same time people who got HoT got it knowing that legendary weapons where not included at launch, and where not all ready. That was there mistake, believing they where buying something that was not there to start with.

You wouldn’t buy a car, and the guy show you one and say, this care is great it can do allsorts of things. You can buy it right now, but the wheels will not be ready for awhile, and we don’t have a time frame. Would you buy that car?

“we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game”
1 month after release: 3 weapons
4 months after the 1st release: 1 weapon
indefinitelly stopped: 0 weapons.

Not even Einstein could come up with a theory to make a 1:4:never interval a regular one as well as make 1 weapon and 0 weapons “small groups” – a group consists of at least 2.
At the same time, there were other features like Fractal Leaderbords, Guild Anthem, masteries like Bark cutting and downward gliding, which also didn’t see the light of day.
Please don’t defend them.
Did we pay a full expansion? yes
Did we get all of the features? no.
End. of.story.

You didn’t even read my post, or you didn’t understand what you read.

I did. but even if you think you are not defending them, you are doing just that. And you literally don’t have to.
Once again – the only thing you need to know as a customer is if you got what you paid for – and the answer is NO.
It doesn’t matter how you look at it. Either including the missing features or the actual expansion.
The features weren’t that many to begin with, but most of us dealt with this fact.
Now, reducing the features even further “so they can work on the core game” – while they
1.) Had the money from the core game sale when we first bought it to use on fixing the core game but apparently rather used it on something else.
2.) HAVE 70 devs working on a new expac while they feel that is essential to cut off 6 developers working on one of the features that we already bought
3.) are telling people that they are unfair for thinking that what we got is an unfinished product (while it actually is unfinished)

didn’t really help calming down the crowd. don’t you think?
There’s is NO explanation that would make it okay for them to cancel something that they were selling for 5 months.

Wow, just wow.

As a customer I knew what I was paying for. I made sure I did. And I payed what I thought it was worth, (£28 four days before launch from Amazon).
I knew when I payed for HoT legendary weapons where not included and would come later, so how can I pay for something that’s no there in the first place?

As I said the only thing that have gone back on the the regular intervals. With out knowing intent we can not say that ANet intent to never give us the rest as they said they would. You are acting as if ANet have out right said we are never having them.

But hay you keep believing you where lied to. Or next time you buy something make sure you know the difference between what is included when you buy it, and what will come later.

i5 4690K @ 3.5Mhz|8GB HyperX Savage 1600mHz|MSI H81M-E34|MSI GTX 960 Gaming 2GB|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: mrstealth.6701

mrstealth.6701

It reeks of bad managment, and there is no way to argue with that.
Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

It is the industry standard in software. I know everyone is mad at ArenaNet right now, but you cannot find a software company that does NOT do this exactly the same way.

One big difference between this situation and others is the fact that a legendary weapons aren’t just some feature mentioned as part of an upcoming (unpaid) update, or as part of a development blog that can easily be explained as subject to change. These weapons have been, and still are to this day, a listed and marketed key feature of Heart of Thorns.

It can be difficult to hold a company to their word on features announced as part of updates and other free enhancements. Sure, it’s a blow to their credibility, but they aren’t really obligated to provide those features. On the other hand, if you slap a feature “on the box” and use it in your marketing materials as part of the persuasion to buy the product, you kitten well better be able to deliver that feature.

Footsteps Of War [FoW] | Yak’s Bend
Seer Of The Divine | Sarina Starlight | Tireasa | Caedyra

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: AysonCurrax.3254

AysonCurrax.3254

It reeks of bad managment, and there is no way to argue with that.
Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

It is the industry standard in software. I know everyone is mad at ArenaNet right now, but you cannot find a software company that does NOT do this exactly the same way.

thats odd. I work as a developer myself, and i have yet to encounter such a mess. On the other hand, that might very well be because i am still young and havent worked at too many different companies yet. Maybe i am just lucky then.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

It reeks of bad managment, and there is no way to argue with that.
Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

It is the industry standard in software. I know everyone is mad at ArenaNet right now, but you cannot find a software company that does NOT do this exactly the same way.

No buts, no what ifs.
Did we get what we paid for? No.
Are they indefinitelly canceling what we paid for? yes.
As a customer I want to see the product I paid being delivered in it’s intended form.

I’m sure that ANET knew that there would be issues with the legendary team, as MO, in his first post said, that the team would be working on the legendaries for years to come … You don’t realize this 5 months after the team was only able to produce 1 weapon. I mean honestly,think about it – If your team was only able to get 3 legies done during the whole development of the expansion (while 1 of the legies was already ingame for 2 years), then you probably wouldn’t use this feature as a selling point. Especially not with a big title and a long blog post about them. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

You’ve got a right to be angry (which they even conceded). I just felt that some perspective was necessary. You will get the exact same treatment from every game company on the planet because every single one of them, bar none, has done and will continue to do this exact same thing.

Software development is a highly fluid process. That means “promises” before it is finished about what it will do are also highly fluid.

Not once in the history of software has a program delivered on all its pre-launch promises.

thats odd. I work as a developer myself, and i have yet to encounter such a mess. On the other hand, that might very well be because i am still young and havent worked at too many different companies yet. Maybe i am just lucky then.

It’s the classic example of Developer Versus Publisher.

As a developer, you love the program you are working on and want it to be great. You see the potential and want to make your users happy.

The Publisher, however, cares about profits and nothing else. They see your job as meeting deadlines and hitting quotas. If you have to cut corners, change the functions, cut features, and break promises, so be it. You can always patch it in later for a microtransaction!

Point is, broken promises are the norm thanks to a combination of miscalculated planning, poor management, and Developer/Publisher conflicts.

Server: Devona’s Rest

(edited by mtpelion.4562)

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

Now, reducing the features even further “so they can work on the core game” – while they
1.) Had the money from the core game sale when we first bought it to use on fixing the core game but apparently rather used it on something else.

I think you read “core game” wrong in the post. I believed they mean global living world like LS3 for example or revamping maps (including some HoT maps) or improving some mechanisms that were released with the expansion. “core game” is here opposed to side feature like new legendaries are. Having them or not will not break the game, other things can. And we also paid for this. That is one reason why after just 6 months they will change the reward flows of the new maps (we still have to wait to see what they mean by this).
Also don’t forget that there were a lot of complains about the precursors crafting. So imagine that you put a lot of effort on a feature, you release a part of it and people are not happy with it. Either you block some people on improving the feature for months (like fractal leaderboards with which they were never happy with, even before releasing it) or you decide that those people can be more useful right away on a different tasks that don’t require an entire revamp.
They chose the second alternative. Maybe it will be a disaster for the game, or maybe it will help a bigger part of the game to be more like what players expected… right now we don’t know but at least they warned us before. Just to follow the example of Fractals, when did we know that leaderboards were once again dropped ? It was during the AMA on reddit, last news before this was that they were still polishing it.

At least this time I do appreciate that they tell us rather than ignoring forum topics like " only 4 legendaries, where are the others?" for the next 2 years and suddenly come in a messiah way : “oh be happy players, we have new legendaries for you… don’t we deserve a hug ?”

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: AysonCurrax.3254

AysonCurrax.3254

It reeks of bad managment, and there is no way to argue with that.
Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

It is the industry standard in software. I know everyone is mad at ArenaNet right now, but you cannot find a software company that does NOT do this exactly the same way.

No buts, no what ifs.
Did we get what we paid for? No.
Are they indefinitelly canceling what we paid for? yes.
As a customer I want to see the product I paid being delivered in it’s intended form.

I’m sure that ANET knew that there would be issues with the legendary team, as MO, in his first post said, that the team would be working on the legendaries for years to come … You don’t realize this 5 months after the team was only able to produce 1 weapon. I mean honestly,think about it – If your team was only able to get 3 legies done during the whole development of the expansion (while 1 of the legies was already ingame for 2 years), then you probably wouldn’t use this feature as a selling point. Especially not with a big title and a long blog post about them. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

You’ve got a right to be angry (which they even conceded). I just felt that some perspective was necessary. You will get the exact same treatment from every game company on the planet because every single one of them, bar none, has done and will continue to do this exact same thing.

Software development is a highly fluid process. That means “promises” before it is finished about what it will do are also highly fluid.

Not once in the history of software has a program delivered on all its pre-launch promises.

That, i do not believe. It is all written down in contracts and forms what the customer asked you to make for them, and you agree to that, along with how you are going to do so and in which quality. if you fail to miss those standards you yourself set, your customer wont pay you full price because you didnt deliver.

Also, Witcher 3, CD Project Red, to counter prove your statement that no company has ever delivered on what they promised.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Finalfreefall.8247

Finalfreefall.8247

The gemstore is part of the core game, right?

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Spira.4578

Spira.4578

Guys, I understand that you are all really upset…
I still think that what some of us fail to understand is that this is how game industry works… I explain myself… you should not buy a game because the devs promised to add more content after the release that will compensate what the game is lacking from the start, that is your fault, I’m sorry, but it is true. You can’t trust a company that far because kitten-ups happen and things change and maybe something that they really want to ship never comes to life because they can’t find a way to do it or they need too much time. It was their fault to make some of us continue to think that the ideas, that what was planned was definitive and that it was a promise, to never iterate on the issue saying that they are trying but they can’t be sure themselves to deliver, because that is how making a game works. There’s no magic wand that will make the game interesting and fun, it is a process of trying out, and some times you find that is much better to put something on hold instead of sacrificing the results. Would you prefer the Legendaries to come out half finished? Or broken? OMG anet is shipping half the work done again! That’s what you would read again on the forums.
That in my opinion is what MO is trying to do, he figured out that is not going in the right direction and instead of fake it and make people think that they are doing it, instead of shipping half backed content, he is telling us that they are placing the Legendaries on hold, it does not mean that they will never come, in the future I’m sure that they will return on them but for now they are focusing on something that have better chances to be delivered in a short time and in good state.
Still, even if things are not great recently, I look around and couldn’t find any MMO that keeps me engaged as Gw2, and I’m sure that this is the same for a ot of other people, and that is why we get so upset and feel betrayed but instead of leaving and migrate to another game we are still here complaining.

Expecting MO to say that the Hot release was a bad choice that it was a mess is not something that will ever happen! Just because, if he is still running the company it means he believes that even if things didn’t go as planned it is still a project worth the time. If MO says something like that, then you can be sure that GW2 has no future.

MO is trying to change things, obviously he is trying to do it for the better, not everyone agrees but none of us knows what is happening internally at Anet, what was the extension of the problem.
If things will be really better only time knows.
I will keep playing and if I finish every thing I like in this game, get too kittened off about some release or find something better, I will stop playing the game! If Anet doesn’t deliver any good content the next expansion isn’t worth that name I will not pay for anything else.

It seems you fail to understand how business works.
Customer pays. Provider delivers.
It’s not Customer pays. Prodiver delivers partialy and changes the deal on it’s own without consulting the customer.
It litereally doesn’t matter what the story behind the curtains is. From the customers point the only thing that we should ask is:
Did we get everything that we paid for?
And the answer to it is: no.
It literally doesn’t matter WHY – at least not to us. Same as they don’t care how we got the money to pay for their game we shouldn’t care how they are working on the promoted features.
Don’t sympatize with your seller, because as soon as you do, the seller will use your kindness – which is exactly what was and still is happening with this game.

Exactly for the life of me, I cannot understand people sympathizing with Anet on this one and saying it is ok. This effects everyone that bought the expansion. What if next O’Brien says “we are suspending work on new fractals indefinitely”, will this be OK? What if he said “We are not bringing out Legendary armor as only a small percentage of the player base will actually get the gear” is this ok too?

These features where promised with HoT if he can just drop Legendary weapons he can other features too. Wake up people, as a consumer you should get what you pay for!

Nothing you have listed was promised with HoT. They said it would cone after launch. No time frame was given. They only thing they have really gone back on as far as the legendary weapons are concerned is the regular intervals. We knew they would not be included with HoT at launch. Same for raids and legendary armor. Bit ANet told us we needed HoT to be able to get them. So really people got HoT so they could do and get these things later, not as soon as HoT dropped. When I buy something I know I’m buying what’s in front of me. Not what is to be added later on. Would the addition of things sway people to buy HoT, of course it would, ANet knew that, that’s why they talked about these features. Features that where not included with HoT at launch, because they knew HoT didn’t offer much at launch compared to other expansions from other MMO’s or even the campaigns from GW1.

So they focuses on the things coming after, which was wrong, it did make it look like they where a part of HoT, but in reality they where not. That is why I’ve always said HoT is not an expansion, it’s a DLC season pass. The things ANet bigged up where to be added later. I’m not defending ANet, and I have no sympathy, ANet messed up by making a big deal out of things that where not finished or anywhere near being ready. Now this storm is of there own making. But at the same time people who got HoT got it knowing that legendary weapons where not included at launch, and where not all ready. That was there mistake, believing they where buying something that was not there to start with.

You wouldn’t buy a car, and the guy show you one and say, this care is great it can do allsorts of things. You can buy it right now, but the wheels will not be ready for awhile, and we don’t have a time frame. Would you buy that car?

“we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game”
1 month after release: 3 weapons
4 months after the 1st release: 1 weapon
indefinitelly stopped: 0 weapons.

Not even Einstein could come up with a theory to make a 1:4:never interval a regular one as well as make 1 weapon and 0 weapons “small groups” – a group consists of at least 2.
At the same time, there were other features like Fractal Leaderbords, Guild Anthem, masteries like Bark cutting and downward gliding, which also didn’t see the light of day.
Please don’t defend them.
Did we pay a full expansion? yes
Did we get all of the features? no.
End. of.story.

You didn’t even read my post, or you didn’t understand what you read.

I did. but even if you think you are not defending them, you are doing just that. And you literally don’t have to.
Once again – the only thing you need to know as a customer is if you got what you paid for – and the answer is NO.
It doesn’t matter how you look at it. Either including the missing features or the actual expansion.
The features weren’t that many to begin with, but most of us dealt with this fact.
Now, reducing the features even further “so they can work on the core game” – while they
1.) Had the money from the core game sale when we first bought it to use on fixing the core game but apparently rather used it on something else.
2.) HAVE 70 devs working on a new expac while they feel that is essential to cut off 6 developers working on one of the features that we already bought
3.) are telling people that they are unfair for thinking that what we got is an unfinished product (while it actually is unfinished)

didn’t really help calming down the crowd. don’t you think?
There’s is NO explanation that would make it okay for them to cancel something that they were selling for 5 months.

Wow, just wow.

As a customer I knew what I was paying for. I made sure I did. And I payed what I thought it was worth, (£28 four days before launch from Amazon).
I knew when I payed for HoT legendary weapons where not included and would come later, so how can I pay for something that’s no there in the first place?

As I said the only thing that have gone back on the the regular intervals. With out knowing intent we can not say that ANet intent to never give us the rest as they said they would. You are acting as if ANet have out right said we are never having them.

But hay you keep believing you where lied to. Or next time you buy something make sure you know the difference between what is included when you buy it, and what will come later.

Yea, did you also not pay for the fractal leaderboards that were canceled?
Or for the guild anthem that was heavily talked about in one of their blog posts?
Or how about the masteries like bark cutting?
It’s not just the legendary crafting that got scrapped.
That’s the problem. And yes, it’s true that you didn’t pay for the legendary weapons @HoT release, however, you did pay for legendary weapons that you would get in small GROUPS in REGULAR intervals.
Group consists of at least 2. We’re getting 1 bow.
1 month after HoT, 4 months after the first release, indifinitelly suspended is NOT in any possible way, regardless how you look at it, a REGULAR interval. So you actually aren’t getting what you paid for.

(edited by Spira.4578)

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Minx.7521

Minx.7521

Hi! Let me start by saying that this entire outrage is not all about the cutting of legendaries, it’s about delivering a product that people spent real life money already bought.
Information and knowledge is power, and this post is my effort to try and give people as much backed-up information as possible.

1.
A choice was presented to us via this thread: live content or legendary weapons. But why not both? They sold HoT to us with the promise of both pieces of content. Deliver what you sold to us.

2.
Along that path, Anet has limited resources. Mike says he can’t spare 6 to continue working on legendary weapons (content we paid for) but around 70 are working on content that no one paid for yet.
My main point is that they should prioritize on delivering a product they sold if their resources were spread thin, instead of working on a new one that no real life money has gone into. In regards to the next expansion, here are quotes from Mike:
“My goal now is sustainability: we shouldn’t ever have to sacrifice Live to ship an expansion.’’
Source with information on the 70 working on next expansion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/
An example for those that are confused about my point: I buy 2 cakes from CakeCo. by pre-purchasing when their cake shop opens. I get 1 cake immediately and was told to wait on the 2nd cake. I wait. A week later, I was told that work on my 2nd cake was put on hold indefinitely but they have enough resources to cook a 3rd cake that I can buy. I don’t want to buy the 3rd cake. I want the 2 cakes that I spent money on already.

3.
Point 3 deals exclusively with Legendary weapon promises. Below is a timeline of the legendary weapon promises and when they were broken. Take special note of the March 2015 Lindsey Murdock Blogpost.
• 2013- New Legendaries are promised. This was before expansions were ever going to be a thing in GW2. They never came.
• 2014- Nothing on the Legendary front.
• January2015- PAX South. HoT Announcement. Colin and Mike take the stage and announce that Legendaries are coming with HoT. These weren’t supposed to be behind a paywall. They were supposed to come out two years prior!
• March 2015- Linsey Murdock Blogpost- “From brainstorming to testing and bug fixing, building everything for a new legendary weapon reasonably takes about a month, not including the art for the weapon. That’s about a week per themed collection and a week for the economics, recipes and other random tasks.”
• August-September 2015- It’s announced that we are getting 3 new legendaries at launch with more to come on regular intervals.
• March 2016- Legendaries are halted indefinitely.

There are several things we are told in this timeline. Also, if Lindsey described it so clearly that making a legendary takes about a month to reach artists stage, these past 4 months, Anet should have maybe 3 or 4 new legendaries, not just the shortbow. I had heard the comment that designing the legendary journey might be holding them back, but Lindsey knew that journey-designing was part of these new legendaries. She STILL gave an estimate of a month before art + testing. Art + effects should be no problem, seeing as how we received multiple new outfits + over 130 gemstore skins. So either her article underestimated the time used for legendaries or Anet had pulled them a long time ago and is just releasing info now.
Regardless, legendary weapons were sold as part of the HoT package. People who paid for HoT already paid for these.
Here is link to Linsey Murdock Blog: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

4.
Also, based on what was said to us before, some of the legendaries (or at least skins and effects) already exist. Colin’s seen some of the new legendaries (besides the 3 already released), they were there, and doubts of them not coming out were squashed. The 6-man-team was obviously doing something, are resources so thin that they had to halt indefinitely in the middle of completing their work?
Add this to the Lindsey quote of basically taking a month for a legendary, shouldn’t there be several legendaries being beta-tested at the moment? Why put it off indefinitely it really doesn’t add up. Did Colin just straight up lie?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/40n8gp/state_of_the_game_2016_post/cyvo6mx
“Colin: We’ve said it before – but i’ll reinforce we’re working on more legendary weapons: YES.”
and…
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://dulfy.net/2016/01/08/gw2-jan-8-guild-chat-livestream-notes/
Colin: “I have seen some of the new legendaries, they are amazing”
Keep in mind that the latest quote about the existence of these are in January 8th.

5.
In regards to communication issues and from people wanting to blame Colin, please read this quote.
“Colin:
While as game director I didn’t set communication policy, I am really excited to see the things happening like this AMA. It’ll be a great advantage having Mo in this role as he can both set policy, and game direct simultaneously.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/d0o6cyn
Between this quote, knowing that Mike was president of Arenanet and boss of Colin, and reading multiple reviews from a website with glass ceilings or something :P, I think it’s fair to say that Mike was not new to this whole situation while it was going on. Not only was he not new to this situation, he had more control than Colin about the communication situation/state of HoT/shipping content timelines … I mean, he WAS the bigger boss.

Please note that I am not trying to attack anyone personally. I am using direct quotes from Anet staff such as Colin, Mike, and Lindsay.
I am trying to bring the facts together so that we can look at what’s happening holistically.
Information and knowledge is power, and this post is my effort to try and give people as much quoted iformation as possible.
I spent quite some time re-reading the official GW2 forums and reddit to gather these bits of information. Thank you all for reading!

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

That, i do not believe. It is all written down in contracts and forms what the customer asked you to make for them, and you agree to that, along with how you are going to do so and in which quality. if you fail to miss those standards you yourself set, your customer wont pay you full price because you didnt deliver.

Also, Witcher 3, CD Project Red, to counter prove your statement that no company has ever delivered on what they promised.

Yeah, it only took them three tries to figure out how to not make any promises and thus only have limited complaints at release (even Witcher 3 did not escape a few minor accusations of broken promises). I hope you are getting my point though; if you believe hype you will always be disappointed.

Server: Devona’s Rest

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Spira.4578

Spira.4578

Ah I wrote LS – I actually wanted to say LW – I was talking about the other 2 aspects (so WvW and sPvP) because the person I replied to said that he’s okay with this cut, because this mean this devs could work on all 3 aspects of the game.

I agree about the transparency, and don’t get me wrong- I understand they have to do cut something off.
What I don’t agree with is that the customers that already paid for this features are the one being affected. Cutting 10% of their next expac dev team (so 7 members) would delay it’s release by 10% (it would still be released and they would still get the same amount of profit – just delayed). By cutting 100% of the legy crafting team, they didn’t delay it, but canceled it.
Delivering what they were promoting with HoT should be their priority. As it is something they already got our money for.
It’s kinda like if we would withdraw money from the credit company, and then refuse to return it, because we have personal problems and therefore reasons not to. Returning (or in this case delivering what was advertised and already sold) should be the priority.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Spira.4578

Spira.4578

That, i do not believe. It is all written down in contracts and forms what the customer asked you to make for them, and you agree to that, along with how you are going to do so and in which quality. if you fail to miss those standards you yourself set, your customer wont pay you full price because you didnt deliver.

Also, Witcher 3, CD Project Red, to counter prove your statement that no company has ever delivered on what they promised.

Yeah, it only took them three tries to figure out how to not make any promises and thus only have limited complaints at release (even Witcher 3 did not escape a few minor accusations of broken promises). I hope you are getting my point though; if you believe hype you will always be disappointed.

And how many tries took ANET so far? …

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

Yea, did you also not pay for the fractal leaderboards that were canceled?
Or for the guild anthem that was heavily talked about in one of their blog posts?
Or how about the masteries like bark cutting?
It’s not just the legendary crafting that got scrapped.

That is why they always say that things are subject to change before release. And while I admit that too many things were planned for after release (which doesn’t make it half an expansion but a rushed expansion) this has been the case in every MMO since ever.
Bark cutting removed is really not a good example because there is no bark to cut anymore…
If you think this is a good example then you should have known that such promises are often taken away : engineer shield absorb, mine kit, skills that were supposed to change when jumping or when we climb in trees (back in 2007 !), dragons attacking the village as part of dynamic events, environmental bundles giving different skills for every professions, racial traits, traits on weapons, free distribution of statistic points, energy potions, energy cost of skills, necro DS back travel and as downed state…..

In fact they cancelled much more “promises” before they launched the core game as for this expansion.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

And how many tries took ANET so far? …

Some people learn faster than others…

Server: Devona’s Rest

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: kahzee.6042

kahzee.6042

Personally I dont do the legendary journey anyway but if you say you are going to do something you need to do it.
End of Story…Period.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

I feel sorry for the new people here defending Anet. It is quite easy to tell those who are new from the vets lol. Glad you guys still have optimism.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: StoryMode.8256

StoryMode.8256

Just a little post about my feelings, which probably won’t make a difference:

I can understand why this decision might be made, but I won’t pretend that it doesn’t upset me a bit. I paid for HoT under the impression that I will be getting myself tons of new content AND a full set of new Legendaries, as well as a few other features that were scrapped. I might be in the minority here, but I was seriously looking forward to the new Legendaries because I don’t exactly like all of the original ones. Anet is losing money on me, because I was the type to buy gems, convert to gold, to purchase the materials I needed to make these Legendaries.

I have Eternity, and just recently got myself Nevermore…. and now I have nothing else to do in the game. Nothing. So I will hardly be logging in until new content comes. I was hoping for more Legendaries to aim for that would keep me logged in and busy…. I am not a PVP player, and I don’t exactly have reasons to do Fractals or Dungeons… I have completed the world map on my two favorite characters/classes and so that’s it… Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have much to offer me anymore until new content arrives.

So take that as you will… but I can assure you there are many people who feel the same way and GW2 will be plagued with surges of player activity and even longer dead times (It’s already happening I’m sure, and has been for a while).

And now… What makes them think I am going to even buy a third expansion if they didn’t deliver on a promise I was looking forward to with their second expansion?

(edited by StoryMode.8256)

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: cosmicegg.8502

cosmicegg.8502

Looks like deceptive marketing practices.

Lea Moonbow
Blackgate

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: eleshazar.6902

eleshazar.6902

But guys! There is a new bubble glider skin in the gemstore! That’s what you all asked for….right guys?

All professions level 80| Champion Paragon, Phantom, Genius
Phoenix Ascendant [ASH] | Rank 80

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Minx.7521

Minx.7521

All these arguments, lets bring the main argument back to how a product that was part of a package sold to people is now being canceled. For more information, check out my summary earlier on page 36.
As someone brought up earlier, Anet as a seller does not care about how I make my money to pay them. I, as a consumer, should not be digging into how they run things. I simply want what was SOLD to me.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: kuittaa.7360

kuittaa.7360

Awesome decision, Legendary Mike!

While you’re making these brilliant moves, could you also repair/redesign some features that work just fine and don’t need any repairing or redesigning? Because it is Anet’s trademark, is it not – to fix stuff that is not broken. Also, it provides new and exciting content which everyone enjoys.

You could start with something small and easy, like removing auto-loot, and ability to jump. I mean we have gliding, which is the awesomest thing since omnomberrypie, and no-one jumps anymore. Mystic forge could also be completely redesigned, along with all the current recipes. Be sure to delete all items gotten with old recipes, so players would have exciting and fun time discovering and creating the same items they had with completely new methods! I estimate this would require maybe 80-90 devs.

WvW ranks could be redesigned, but be sure to reset the ranks as well. What could be more fun than gaining the ranks again. This improvement would require some nerf to be in balance, so maybe remove 90% of the items in wvw rankup reward chests and limit item quality to max green. Also, you will make all wvw-players really happy by doubling the amount of dev-force committed to wvw by assigning the second wvw-dev. Just remember to hype this!

Certain things in starter areas could use some complete redesign, some of which could easily be expanded to effect all Tyria. Say, the dark green shade in some trees is not quite right. Maybe a modest force of 60-90 devs could be assigned to redesign this green shade. This improvement is asked all the time I’m in the game; I’ve seen map chats filled with positive comments about this suggestion, so surely you have some metrics to back up this request. As for starter areas, to make this more impactful, stone and rock compositions could use some more variation.

I have several more good suggestions to give. In fact, I agree that you should not only to put legendary weapons to indefinite hold, but also freeze all further commitment to wvw, pvp and pve and focus on extremely important things I’ve mentioned. Keep the gem store folks tho, because they are invaluable.

If you do these things, or even half of them, I promise that I may or may not buy gems in regular intervals to support the company, and I definitely promise I will maybe consider buying the next expansion which contains all these things and more!

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

  1. At a guess, they’ve been fixing the collections that had problems, like the one in Snowden where players have to fail an event to proc a different event that allowed them to get the collectable “thing.”
  2. I’m also wondering if the code for much or all of the vanilla game is very complex, and that those who wrote it are gone. I’ve revised and debugged software that someone else wrote (and didn’t annotate at all or very well) and that can be its own special purgatory.
  3. If 2 is an issue, then that might explain why it would take this team “years to come” to produce collections that did not ship in the problematic state that some of the initial three had.

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: kahzee.6042

kahzee.6042

But guys! There is a new bubble glider skin in the gemstore! That’s what you all asked for….right guys?

Hey I just bought that its awesome =P

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: enlightened.5396

enlightened.5396

Bubble glider in the gem store – you could not make this kitten up.

Got to laugh really. ANet are a joke.

IGN – San Jacinto
Vanishing Legacy (VALE)

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

It is the industry standard in software. I know everyone is mad at ArenaNet right now, but you cannot find a software company that does NOT do this exactly the same way.

Perhaps it’s the time to do something about it. Because those companies can get away with it only because everyone says “it’s normal”. No, it’s not and there are actually laws against it.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

Legendary weapons

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Tearthy Flame.1463

Tearthy Flame.1463

Awesome decision, Legendary Mike!

While you’re making these brilliant moves, could you also repair/redesign some features that work just fine and don’t need any repairing or redesigning? Because it is Anet’s trademark, is it not – to fix stuff that is not broken. Also, it provides new and exciting content which everyone enjoys.

Your whole post is entirely sarcastic and would cause Armageddon. Even though it’s completely funny you seem to be very angry, to me. xD

“I don’t take insults from a tree! Have at you, leafy!”