Guild Wars 2

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This is what is still on the table.

CETheLucid.3964:

On one hand, I show the company my displeasure by requesting a refund on HoT for legendary weapons being less than advertised on the principles of getting what I paid for.

A legit “This was false advertising and I won’t accept MO’s platitudes!” kinda guy.

On the other hand, I don’t request a refund because I like all the virtual stuff and goodies the account has that is run by the very same people I feel are treacherous and dishonest.

If I put myself in the “I’m waiting for them to say something or right this perceived wrong” camp, I guess I can understand waiting at this point.

But if you have strong feelings in this situation and you still elect to suffer through what you believe are treacherous and dishonest people?

For the sake of virtual goods you have no quarter over? Ultimately controlled by the very same people you believe are treacherous and dishonest?

You may have a problem. And I wish you the best in sorting out that dichotomy.

Let’s see…treacherous…suffer…what are you doing? Writing a soap opera? lol I don’t really see what’s so hard to understand. You seem to live in some kind of black-and-white world where if you’re unhappy with something you end the relationship.

Life is not black-and-white. People don’t necessarily end business relationships because they run into a problem. A lot of times, people try to resolve those problems in a less drastic way than a complete write-off. Even when they feel strongly about the problem. Especially if they feel strongly about the problem.

I don’t get why this is hard to understand. It’s like you can’t understand a situation unless it’s overly simplified first. Life is messy and complicated. There are usually more solutions than “I’m taking my Barbies and going home.”

Celtic Lady.3729:

Let’s see…treacherous…suffer…what are you doing? Writing a soap opera? lol

Aren’t you the same one who thinks I’m drunk and can’t communicate with people ever because I used a bad analogy? lol

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

CETheLucid.3964:

If you feel strongly enough to request a refund for the sake of HoT legendary weps but loves you that core GW2, make a free account after the fact?

/shrug

Because he doesn’t want to lose his characters, the gem store items he’s bought for them, etc, etc? Those would be good reasons not to want to start over with a free account.

Putting myself in the position of the wronged and betrayed, I’m still not getting.

On one hand, I show the company my displeasure by requesting a refund on HoT for legendary weapons being less than advertised on the principles of getting what I paid for.

A legit “This was false advertising and I won’t accept MO’s platitudes!” kinda guy.

On the other hand, I don’t request a refund because I like all the virtual stuff and goodies the account has that is run by the very same people I feel are treacherous and dishonest.

If I put myself in the “I’m waiting for them to say something or right this perceived wrong” camp, I guess I can understand waiting at this point.

But if you have strong feelings in this situation and you still elect to suffer through what you believe are treacherous and dishonest people?

For the sake of virtual goods you have no quarter over? Ultimately controlled by the very same people you believe are treacherous and dishonest?

You may have a problem. And I wish you the best in sorting out that dichotomy.

I’m displeased.

I’m not having the overwrought emotional, hissy fit that you’re portraying us as having. This isn’t some soap opera that we’re in. Just a business dispute.

In addition, you’ve seem to have forgotten that players can play for free once they’ve bought the game. No further financial interactions needed if they don’t want to.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’m displeased.

I’m not having the overwrought emotional, hissy fit that you’re portraying us as having. This isn’t some soap opera that we’re in. Just a business dispute.

What did I say that portrayed you or anyone else as having an emotional hissy fit?

Moreover I’m trying to understand people’s thought process in all of this, in the interests of being fair with my commentary.

And it’s pretty hard. People are weird.

I mean people do seem rather salty about the issue overall, but if that’s the extent of your accusation there, I dunno what to say.

Casual observation I guess?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

In addition, you’ve seem to have forgotten that players can play for free once they’ve bought the game. No further financial interactions needed if they don’t want to.

Did I dispute that at some point?

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Let’s see…treacherous…suffer…what are you doing? Writing a soap opera? lol

Aren’t you the same one who thinks I’m drunk and can’t communicate with people ever because I used a bad analogy? lol

lol Yeah, I did wonder if you were drunk after a couple of your posts. I know some people like to drink a lot in the evenings and go online and whatever comes out of the keyboard comes out. lol

Maybe we’re both not communicating well on this topic for whatever reason. I dunno. Seems to be some disconnect on this subject. I really am baffled.

CETheLucid.3964:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’m displeased.

I’m not having the overwrought emotional, hissy fit that you’re portraying us as having. This isn’t some soap opera that we’re in. Just a business dispute.

What did I say that portrayed you or anyone else as having an emotional hissy fit?

Moreover I’m trying to understand people’s thought process in all of this, in the interests of being fair with my commentary.

And it’s pretty hard. People are weird.

I mean people do seem rather salty about the issue overall, but if that’s the extent of your accusation there, I dunno what to say.

Casual observation I guess?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

In addition, you’ve seem to have forgotten that players can play for free once they’ve bought the game. No further financial interactions needed if they don’t want to.

Did I dispute that at some point?

You were saying that we should get a refund and get our accounts closed if we decided that we were wronged and betrayed. That’s an overwrought, emotional response more appropriate to lovers or friends breaking up, not a business dispute.

And the other part was noting that you don’t need to have financial interactions to play, therefore whether or not you trust them financially doesn’t matter.

At any rate, as Celtic Lady has said. We’re not on the same page so let’s leave it at that.

Celtic Lady.3729:

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Besides, you can’t get “recourse” as you call it if you want to keep your account, so that’s not an option for everyone.

Sure you can. What does it matter if you feel you can’t trust them and you’ve been cheated? Just take your business elsewhere.

If you can’t accept what they’re trying to do and you feel irreversibly wronged, why continue with them?

It’s already been stated by Anet that if you want a refund or partial refund for HoT, they’ll close your account. If a player doesn’t want the account closed, they’re not going to try to get a refund.

If they want to close my account (ban) they need to pay me 45€ for HoT and 60€ for base game. Thats 105 €, and I will gladly accept that.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

You were saying that we should get a refund and get our accounts closed if we decided that we were wronged and betrayed. That’s an overwrought, emotional response more appropriate to lovers or friends breaking up, not a business dispute.

I dunno. I’m much more willing to longsuffer my friends or loved ones than I am to deal with a business entity that I feel is treacherous and dishonest.

As it stands, Anet has been nothing but kind to those I know and has done nothing yet to wrong me personally.

Their work has been solid thus far.

Legendary weps just aren’t that big a deal to me and I can suffer them being put on hold for the sake of the game as a whole.

I’m willing to give MO the benefit here and see what happens.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

And the other part was noting that you don’t need to have financial interactions to play, therefore whether or not you trust them financially doesn’t matter.

You do have to buy the game. That’s a financial investment.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

At any rate, as Celtic Lady has said. We’re not on the same page so let’s leave it at that.

OK.

Ragnarox.9601:

If they want to close my account (ban) they need to pay me 45€ for HoT and 60€ for base game. Thats 105 €, and I will gladly accept that.

That’s a path you can pursue if you so choose. Best of luck with that.

Hey, I’m also very dissapointed by this annonc.

You pretend that you listen to your fans, yet the dev. plan is quite the other way.
Ppl talk over and over and over about:

- WvW update
- fractal update
- new legendaries (but not mace, axe, shortbow or pistol no one uses – sword, greatsword is the main target!)
- yes they keep talking about dungeons, maybe because lot of ppl love them???
- raids are still the issue, not only new wings but rewards and access. for new players
- LFG system is a JOKE! this is worse than 10-15 years ago lfg chat system, srsly even SWTOR made it better before you.
- legendary fractal backpack – let ppl wait 6-12 months to get it… ?
- legendary armor – lot of my friends already want to skip that because of time-gate on that stupid Faction Provisioners – wth? Provisioner Tokens – worst idea of the year. FOCUS on making legendary armor/weapons a challange not farming. You are making your content just more and more plain farm not achievement or adventure, thats rly bad.
- PvP leauge is another farm place, not fun at all. Where are new pvp maps? How can this mode be interesting with 0 reaction to terrible metagame? Where are new pvp maps? and once again check where are new pvp maps

- GvG and Hero Ascent – this modes maked GW1 legendary game. Put this on your board and ask yourself a question why nothing in GW2 make ppl excited like that 2 modes in GW1

Serophous.9085:

Celtic Lady.3729:

minbariguy.7504:

In retrospect, knowing now the issues they were having finishing content for this expansion, it suddenly makes a lot more sense why they were in such a hurry to get people to buy it before they had to admit how little was in it.

I did think that they rather exaggerated some aspects of their content before release. For instance, I didn’t find the maps to be quite what it sounded like it was going to be. Four maps, all three levels. In reality, the only map that felt truly three levels to me was VB. And even then, the canopy level was minimal because it was mostly air and empty space. Most of the maps, at best, feel like two levels to me or maybe more like one and a half levels.

Anyway, HoT always felt like a very small expansion or a large content update to me. I figure the next expansion will be similar in size or smaller since they won’t have all the “systems” to add that they added with HoT since they’re already implemented.

VB – 3 layers, but you’ll spend 70% of the time on just the 2 lower ones

Basin – Only Topmost layer is at the entrance from VB, then some small spots(maybe?) around the rest of the map. The lowest layer is under the city, which isn’t that big compared to the rest of the map.

Tangled Depths – Yes, up to 4 layers. Pretty much fits what they talked about.

Dragon’s stand – one layer, with some underground caves based on events. Other than that, a dead zone unless you are doing the meta.

agree mostly with what you said, but basically
we got 3 maps VB, AB and TD with
DS being one big dynamic meta event. It’s not really a stand alone map like the others. (you can farm it for a few pods if you miss out on the meta but you’re right its pretty much a deadzone.)

My gaming style is much different from others it seems. I love pve Exploration!!! and was a big reason i bought gw2 when it came out. Maps, maps and more maps! I was hoping for the same number of maps in the original release or maybe a few less, but you can imagine the disappointment when i realized we’d only be getting 4 new maps in HoT and 1 of them was just a dynamic event. :‘( The different levels can be fun at times but not all maps utilize that proposed style as well. TD while being a nightmare initially, after a couple months seems to be the best of the 3. After PVE Exploration Legendaries are the next best thing! Ofcourse this is a process, play the game, collect and store mats, pray to the RNG gods (which hate you, so gl with that) that you get a precursor drop. Crating these weapons is a constant ongoing process that i enjoy. I’ve been waiting to see what new weapons would be released before i start to work further then the first stage, but now i guess that legendary masteries for crafting is just all pointless.

Fractals has become another big part of my gaming style, what’s this about Legendary Fractal backpacks not happening?

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

BrotherBelial.3094:

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

It’s been 5 months and they still aren’t finished. They’re still hardly more than what was promised on the box. How long do you recommend that people wait before buying the expansion? A year? Not until all the Legendaries are done?

Dashingsteel.3410:

I don’t think the anger would be as intense if Mike O’Brien would have also announced that the next expac had been suspended indefinitely. Then it would be seen that they were doing everything they could to work on HoT.

They are all over the place about their design decisions in general. Remember this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack

What surprises me about this is the lack of salt in the comment section… I remember big salty tears when this was announced.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

BrotherBelial.3094:

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

On the same note, it is important to aknowledge, that what made that differenc back than, was the players complaining and not giving up on the game and walking away.

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

Spira.4578:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

On the same note, it is important to aknowledge, that what made that differenc back than, was the players complaining and not giving up on the game and walking away.

Yeah hopefully something players are saying helps in some way. Like if people can be taken off the xpac team to assist legendary team instead, or if reverting to old legendary mystic toilet system might still bring the weapons in game, or if hiring more people will help. But we have no insight whether any of that is possible or not. We should be offering advise like this to them without raging and without accusatory tones. And if not possible ask for an explanation why. This should be a discussion, not a rage charged debate.

Spira.4578:

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

Yes. Driving out talent and replacing them with temporary hires is a fantastic recruiting strategy.

Sarrs.4831:

Spira.4578:

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

Yes. Driving out talent and replacing them with temporary hires is a fantastic recruiting strategy.

Would certainly go well together with their strategy of cutting off the development of something that they already sold

Spira.4578:

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

Implying you can just hire competent content creators off the street like that… -_-

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

And then you have no idea why the 6 man team was taken off in the first place. MO said the legendary weapons team could work on them for years to come, which indicates to me something unforeseen has greatly increased the time it takes to complete these journeys/collections. Possibly long enough to not make them worthwhile. And it might be a job that won’t be made more efficient simply by throwing more people at it. We simply don’t know and can’t assume one way or the other.

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

And then you have no idea why the 6 man team was taken off in the first place. MO said the legendary weapons team could work on them for years to come, which indicates to me something unforeseen has greatly increased the time it takes to complete these journeys/collections. Possibly long enough to not make them worthwhile. And it might be a job that won’t be made more efficient simply by throwing more people at it. We simply don’t know and can’t assume one way or the other.

Exactly, I don’t. And neither do you.
What I DO know is that I paid for features that they canceled so – and this is the only thing the customer should really know.
By paying, we held our end of the deal, now it’s on ANET to hold their end of the deal.

I don’t care much that they are cancelling the legendaries (sorry, indefinitely postponing – semantics). I had no intention of going for them when I realized the timesink involved. But I understand peoples’ frustrations. Anet should offer something in recompense (for example, if you defeated both Zhaitan and Mordremoth, you GET a legendary or at least a precursor/ascended weapon…something).

Regardless, I find myself playing less for some very similar reasons to the timesink that is legendary crafting/questing. The RNG for items – for instance, Dark Harvest has two drops you need to get – the Energy Crystal in Metrica Province and the Pristine Smoke Claw from a smokescale in Magus Falls. I farmed MP for about an hour yesterday alone, and have been almost every day for weeks, off and on. Nothing. I tried the Claw for a bit with the same disappointing results. This led to frustration and a decided lack of motivation to log back into the game.

So I can only assume that the Legendaries would be even more frustrating.

How about this…the 6 you took off of legendaries work on fixing the massive bugs in the game now (broken quests come to mind).

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

Storyboarding could be done by a matter of 3-7 people, scriptwriter 3 at a maximum, concept artists 2 or 1. Hell the whole pre-production stage can be done by less 20 people or less, but 70 people? it either says they’re incompetent enough of being able to do a SINGLE TASK with few people or they’re rushing the expansion AGAIN and leaving the current one down the gutter.

i’m starting to believe that those involved with the legendaries are stuck with the kitten conceptualization but hey, who knows.

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

So they can suspend their developers and get 6 more that would be able to work in that department. At the end of the day – they would still be paying their emploees the same amount of money.

And then you have no idea why the 6 man team was taken off in the first place. MO said the legendary weapons team could work on them for years to come, which indicates to me something unforeseen has greatly increased the time it takes to complete these journeys/collections. Possibly long enough to not make them worthwhile. And it might be a job that won’t be made more efficient simply by throwing more people at it. We simply don’t know and can’t assume one way or the other.

Exactly, I don’t. And neither do you.
What I DO know is that I paid for features that they canceled so – and this is the only thing the customer should really know.
By paying, we held our end of the deal, now it’s on ANET to hold their end of the deal.

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

Rising Blade.9206:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Hey Mike O’Brien, you still got 70 employees working on the new expansion??? I thought you said that new expansion would never hinder the live game. Seems to me that you don’t have enough people on live because you got them on the new expac. Looks like the new expac is already having a negative impact on live.

And you have no idea who is on that 70 man team. Could all be preproduction. Concept artists, script writers, story-boarders, developing new masteries. People who could not contribute to a team already in production like LW likely is. The expansion may very well not be impacting live content. You can’t make that conclusion simply because “there’s a lot of people over there”.

Storyboarding could be done by a matter of 3-7 people, scriptwriter 3 at a maximum, concept artists 2 or 1. Hell the whole pre-production stage can be done by less 20 people or less, but 70 people? it either says they’re incompetent enough of being able to do a SINGLE TASK with few people or they’re rushing the expansion AGAIN and leaving the current one down the gutter.

i’m starting to believe that those involved with the legendaries are stuck with the kitten conceptualization but hey, who knows.

I never intended to list every possible job description on that team. I just said we don’t know. And you can’t know how their teams work or what is required for each team or how many it takes to do said job either.

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

One thing I’ve been wondering. While I’m sure they had a lawyer look over the announcement beforehand, did they not have a meeting and discuss it? Did no one at that meeting point out the negatives? Those being, people considering this unethical if not illegal and the future effect on selling the next expansion if people feel that ANet sells a product with a printed description of its contents and then doesn’t honor the description.

I know some people will say, it’s only for a while. It’s not cancelled, it’s suspended. But when will this company get back to it?
1) before the next expansion. I don’t think so. They’ll be too busy.
2) right after the next expansion. I doubt it. The Devs will have bug fixes and new projects from the new expansion they’ll working on. I don’t see them pulling Devs off of projects to restart the Legendary crafting that’s been sitting for X months.
3) months after the next expansion? Won’t they be in the same situation as they are now? Devs needed for Living World/next expansion and on top of that the precursor crafting will be that much older with all momentum gone.

So when? When are they going to restart? And how many months or years before “eventually” can be considered “cancelled.”

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

Which is why I want more discussion. And less raging.

CETheLucid.3964:

Then the player doesn’t feel as strongly about the subject as the bluster might indicate.

No, rather it’s the fact that ANet should be offering refunds without any strings attached.

People shouldn’t have to get their accounts closed in order to get a refund on something they paid for that is no longer being delivered.

What do you not get about this?

CETheLucid.3964:

Putting myself in the position of the wronged and betrayed, I’m still not getting.

Then you are simply incapable of empathy/sympathy or understanding and it would be better for you to just stop posting in this thread, because in no way are you helping the situation.

If you don’t understand at this point, you will most likely never understand.

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

Which is why I want more discussion. And less raging.

Maybe if MO or someone else from ANET would drop by after 4 days and talk to us, offering a better solution there might be less raging. But considering he only posted 3 posts since the beginning of this thread (1 being the main one, saying that we’re not getting the legy and the 3rd being the message talking about how he thinks this product was delivered in a complete form… lol) it is kind of obvious that players will rage.
I think Minx put most of our thoughts together into a big post and posted it on this thread yesterday. Someone should bump it up.

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

Which is why I want more discussion. And less raging.

Maybe if MO or someone else from ANET would drop by after 4 days and talk to us, offering a better solution there might be less raging. But considering he only posted 3 posts since the beginning of this thread (1 being the main one, saying that we’re not getting the legy and the 3rd being the message talking about how he thinks this product was delivered in a complete form… lol) it is kind of obvious that players will rage.
I think Minx put most of our thoughts together into a big post and posted it on this thread yesterday. Someone should bump it up.

I doubt they’ll talk to us. I’m expecting them to follow their usual procedure. They’ll let us talk about it till we give up, then they’ll go on like nothing ever happened.

It’s always worked before. They figure it will all blow over and people will get over it and forget.

I like the fact that this is clearly stated. Not just another thing that is being dropped and eventually mentioned months or years later.

Would still much rather have new legendaries than anything LS related. The actual legendaries could be added to the existing (old pre-HoT) ones without the need to work on a path, story or anything related to that.

In any case, I might be part of a small minority of players but the way work on content not related to the Living Story has been suspended or almost completely dropped over the years makes me sad.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

Which is why I want more discussion. And less raging.

Maybe if MO or someone else from ANET would drop by after 4 days and talk to us, offering a better solution there might be less raging. But considering he only posted 3 posts since the beginning of this thread (1 being the main one, saying that we’re not getting the legy and the 3rd being the message talking about how he thinks this product was delivered in a complete form… lol) it is kind of obvious that players will rage.
I think Minx put most of our thoughts together into a big post and posted it on this thread yesterday. Someone should bump it up.

I doubt they’ll talk to us. I’m expecting them to follow their usual procedure. They’ll let us talk about it till we give up, then they’ll go on like nothing ever happened.

It’s always worked before. They figure it will all blow over and people will get over it and forget.

Too many gaming sites talked about that. And community pillars like Brazil and WP put a rant online. Besides that WP even said he might leave, which says ALOT. They will have to react somehow. Otherwise they will lose a lot of members – not just cause of the legy weapons debuncle, but the whole ordeal.

Spira.4578:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

Which is why I want more discussion. And less raging.

Maybe if MO or someone else from ANET would drop by after 4 days and talk to us, offering a better solution there might be less raging. But considering he only posted 3 posts since the beginning of this thread (1 being the main one, saying that we’re not getting the legy and the 3rd being the message talking about how he thinks this product was delivered in a complete form… lol) it is kind of obvious that players will rage.
I think Minx put most of our thoughts together into a big post and posted it on this thread yesterday. Someone should bump it up.

I doubt they’ll talk to us. I’m expecting them to follow their usual procedure. They’ll let us talk about it till we give up, then they’ll go on like nothing ever happened.

It’s always worked before. They figure it will all blow over and people will get over it and forget.

Too many gaming sites talked about that. And community pillars like Brazil and WP put a rant online. Besides that WP even said he might leave, which says ALOT. They will have to react somehow. Otherwise they will lose a lot of members – not just cause of the legy weapons debuncle, but the whole ordeal.

I’m expecting at most that in a day or two they’ll toss Gayle to the wolves and let her take the heat.

Then close the thread because reasons.

Hmmm. It makes no sense for a ceo to step on a public forum to tell them players what will not be done. It would have been easier to just release new story and keep people busy with the story until time for 1-2 more legendaries would be found to release some more legendaries. Noone here would have said anything. I bet out of the 41 pages of this thread 40 pages of players would not have even noticed the delay of the weapons lol.

Its just normal this thread explodes when paying people get to know that what they payed is being put on hold with no sight on when the work will be continued…

Theres no reason to throw any bad news to the wolves if there isnt something in the background waiting.

I hope for you that the spring update is not turned into summer update suddenly^^

you better deliver a huge awesome april update now lol

I think that the goals for ebit set by ncsoft are too greedy.

SlateSloan.3654:

Hmmm. It makes no sense for a ceo to step on a public forum to tell them players what will not be done. It would have been easier to just release new story and keep people busy with the story until time for 1-2 more legendaries would be found to release some more legendaries. Noone here would have said anything. I bet out of the 41 pages of this thread 40 pages of players would not have even noticed the delay of the weapons lol.

Its just normal this thread explodes when paying people get to know that what they payed is being put on hold with no sight on when the work will be continued…

Theres no reason to throw any bad news to the wolves if there isnt something in the background waiting.

I hope for you that the spring update is not turned into summer update suddenly^^

you better deliver a huge awesome april update now lol

I think that the goals for ebit set by ncsoft are too greedy.

It was actually quite refreshing to not get that type of developer behaviour for a change. Not that I see this becoming a trend.

If the “legendary journey”/collection/scavenger hunt system is bogging down production of content and can’t be solved by assigning more people to the project, why not just cut out some complexity (fewer collections and item hunts) to make the process more manageable. Or even fall back on the “old” method of acquiring precursors and crafting legendaries, at least until more resources can be dedicated to implementing some of the more complex new process along side it. Surely, any option that sees these weapons actually added to the game as a goal for players to work toward is better than simply tossing the entire idea out into the trash can.

One thing I will never understand about Anet is this unwillingness to see something through and try to make it work out, even if not in the way they had originally planned. They would rather build another entirely new system to replace it, or give up on a concept entirely instead of tweaking/fixing what they have or reverting a previous working system.

How many players would be more satisfied (or at least feel less upset or betrayed) if new legendaries were added under the old system? Or if the old wvw borderland was restored? What about if previous dungeon rewards were re-implemented?

Why let negativity and mistrust fester while you waste time trying to come up with a new solution (that might end up being even worse), or decide to do nothing, when there is a working solution sitting there on a dusty shelf that can be used in the mean time?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

It’s been 5 months and they still aren’t finished. They’re still hardly more than what was promised on the box. How long do you recommend that people wait before buying the expansion? A year? Not until all the Legendaries are done?

If you are buying is for a feature that is not added/finished you wait till its there.

Henry.5713:

SlateSloan.3654:

Hmmm. It makes no sense for a ceo to step on a public forum to tell them players what will not be done. It would have been easier to just release new story and keep people busy with the story until time for 1-2 more legendaries would be found to release some more legendaries. Noone here would have said anything. I bet out of the 41 pages of this thread 40 pages of players would not have even noticed the delay of the weapons lol.

Its just normal this thread explodes when paying people get to know that what they payed is being put on hold with no sight on when the work will be continued…

Theres no reason to throw any bad news to the wolves if there isnt something in the background waiting.

I hope for you that the spring update is not turned into summer update suddenly^^

you better deliver a huge awesome april update now lol

I think that the goals for ebit set by ncsoft are too greedy.

It was actually quite refreshing to not get that type of developer behaviour for a change. Not that I see this becoming a trend.

Had been offline for some days now saw whats going on here and yeah i definately believe that “quiet refreshing”

SlateSloan.3654:

Henry.5713:

SlateSloan.3654:

Hmmm. It makes no sense for a ceo to step on a public forum to tell them players what will not be done. It would have been easier to just release new story and keep people busy with the story until time for 1-2 more legendaries would be found to release some more legendaries. Noone here would have said anything. I bet out of the 41 pages of this thread 40 pages of players would not have even noticed the delay of the weapons lol.

Its just normal this thread explodes when paying people get to know that what they payed is being put on hold with no sight on when the work will be continued…

Theres no reason to throw any bad news to the wolves if there isnt something in the background waiting.

I hope for you that the spring update is not turned into summer update suddenly^^

you better deliver a huge awesome april update now lol

I think that the goals for ebit set by ncsoft are too greedy.

It was actually quite refreshing to not get that type of developer behaviour for a change. Not that I see this becoming a trend.

Had been offline for some days now saw whats going on here and yeah i definately believe that “quiet refreshing”

Your best bet is to uninstall like i did cause they kittened up the whole game.. all 3 gamemodes. For what.. i dont know. Next balance patch better have LARGE changes and tons of improvements to kitten stuff.

SlateSloan.3654:

Henry.5713:

SlateSloan.3654:

Hmmm. It makes no sense for a ceo to step on a public forum to tell them players what will not be done. It would have been easier to just release new story and keep people busy with the story until time for 1-2 more legendaries would be found to release some more legendaries. Noone here would have said anything. I bet out of the 41 pages of this thread 40 pages of players would not have even noticed the delay of the weapons lol.

Its just normal this thread explodes when paying people get to know that what they payed is being put on hold with no sight on when the work will be continued…

Theres no reason to throw any bad news to the wolves if there isnt something in the background waiting.

I hope for you that the spring update is not turned into summer update suddenly^^

you better deliver a huge awesome april update now lol

I think that the goals for ebit set by ncsoft are too greedy.

It was actually quite refreshing to not get that type of developer behaviour for a change. Not that I see this becoming a trend.

Had been offline for some days now saw whats going on here and yeah i definately believe that “quiet refreshing”

I do indeed consider someone being frank and honest with their customers refreshing. Not sure which part of concerned consumers is funny. It is a different story if some of those complaining the loudest continue to spend their hard cash on the game.
I certainly will not myself if things continue this way.

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

Spira.4578:

DaikonSamurai.6714:

I never said I did. And I strongly disagree that is the only thing we should know. If MO/Anet reveals why all the suggested solutions could or could not work we can all work together for the betterment of the game overall.

MO telling us “You’re not gonna get what we promised” is in no way “all working together for the betterment of the game overall”.
I paid for the complete product. I didn’t pay for the production of the next expansion.

Which is why I want more discussion. And less raging.

Maybe if MO or someone else from ANET would drop by after 4 days and talk to us, offering a better solution there might be less raging. But considering he only posted 3 posts since the beginning of this thread (1 being the main one, saying that we’re not getting the legy and the 3rd being the message talking about how he thinks this product was delivered in a complete form… lol) it is kind of obvious that players will rage.
I think Minx put most of our thoughts together into a big post and posted it on this thread yesterday. Someone should bump it up.

Yes and the instant accusations and in-fighting here isn’t helping.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

It’s been 5 months and they still aren’t finished. They’re still hardly more than what was promised on the box. How long do you recommend that people wait before buying the expansion? A year? Not until all the Legendaries are done?

If you are buying is for a feature that is not added/finished you wait till its there.

That’s easy to suggest. However that is also suggesting that all people who might one day want one of the new Legendaries not buy this expansion for however months, or years, until it’s in game. That means they will be left in vanilla until that time and missing all the new content and living story that comes with it. That also assumes that people would have a reason to believe back then that something advertised for that expansion would be put on hold.

While some people might be expecting that advertised content will be withheld or be willing to sit in Vanilla for however many years it takes, most people did not have that expectation. Therefore a suggestion that this expansion should not have been bought is not a reasonable one.

In the end they don’t care. Most players don’t read the forums and will never know about this. They will start asking questions in 5-6 months and then realize they’ve been duped and it is too late to do anything about it. Anet just needs to keep people off the forums and keep pumping out gemstore items and then they can safely ignore us. I saw about 50 bubble gliders yesterday….

Henry.5713:

SlateSloan.3654:

Henry.5713:

SlateSloan.3654:

Hmmm. It makes no sense for a ceo to step on a public forum to tell them players what will not be done. It would have been easier to just release new story and keep people busy with the story until time for 1-2 more legendaries would be found to release some more legendaries. Noone here would have said anything. I bet out of the 41 pages of this thread 40 pages of players would not have even noticed the delay of the weapons lol.

Its just normal this thread explodes when paying people get to know that what they payed is being put on hold with no sight on when the work will be continued…

Theres no reason to throw any bad news to the wolves if there isnt something in the background waiting.

I hope for you that the spring update is not turned into summer update suddenly^^

you better deliver a huge awesome april update now lol

I think that the goals for ebit set by ncsoft are too greedy.

It was actually quite refreshing to not get that type of developer behaviour for a change. Not that I see this becoming a trend.

Had been offline for some days now saw whats going on here and yeah i definately believe that “quiet refreshing”

I do indeed consider someone being frank and honest with their customers refreshing. Not sure which part of concerned consumers is funny. It is a different story if some of those complaining the loudest continue to spend their hard cash on the game.
I certainly will not myself if things continue this way.

Definately. Its what i also do since weeks. When hot went into sales i decided on the same day that i wont pay the price. Got it for 20 bucks on some china website. Whoever will become next game director i hope that person will do drastical changes inside the team. Would be suprising if the spring update will be a first turnaround just it makes no sense for me to throw that negative news to the players, normally you only do that if you got a real burner in the back entrance waiting.

Chilli con carne for seattle!

WingedLass.7456:

Things are going off the deep end. Instead of throwing out desperate (and poorly-developed) saving throws in hopes of people not leaving, or adding more Black Lion weapon skins or gem store outfits and gliders, stop that for a second and think about a direction you want to head and that you can sustain..

Actually, I’m going to say this, and I’m kind of surprised nobody brought it up. I would hope other people were realistic enough to realize it.

There is no way to keep ahead of the content curve. It just doesn’t happen. Every hour or so we spend on content is hundreds of hours of collective labor. Living content is unsustainable, and frankly, not critical in this game more than most. Why? Because there is no subscription model and the model that the game was designed for accounts for rapidly fluctuating player bases. That’s because the only real monetarily significant players in this game are 1) People buying the monetized content(the expansion in this case) and 2) Gem store whales,

The inability to deliver advertised features(this isn’t just some random feature they were talking about in dev blogs and livestreams, this is ad material), is far more important than regularly adding live content. Because when they can’t do that, it kittenes off the whales and removes legitimate incentive to buy the next expansion. And it creates legitimate ill-will in the community.

So frankly, yes, the ability to deliver and advertised feature is more important than pulling the game out of a content drought. We, as a fanbase, are going to burn through content and then start complaining about the next content drought. It’s bound to happen, it happens all the time. There is absolutely no way to prevent that. That’s why EVERY SINGLE MMO pads out their content with some sort of grind or farm component.

Sustainable living content is the head of this company’s pipe dream, and frankly, a pipe dream of the vast majority of MMO players.

Don’t get me wrong. Live content is important. Especially in subscription based games. But large stretches without live content updates(which keep in mind, this game HAS been getting content update, just not the kind that a large section of the fanbase necessarily want) is far less damaging than breaking good faith.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

One thing I’ve been wondering. While I’m sure they had a lawyer look over the announcement beforehand, did they not have a meeting and discuss it? Did no one at that meeting point out the negatives? Those being, people considering this unethical if not illegal and the future effect on selling the next expansion if people feel that ANet sells a product with a printed description of its contents and then doesn’t honor the description.

I know some people will say, it’s only for a while. It’s not cancelled, it’s suspended. But when will this company get back to it?
1) before the next expansion. I don’t think so. They’ll be too busy.
2) right after the next expansion. I doubt it. The Devs will have bug fixes and new projects from the new expansion they’ll working on. I don’t see them pulling Devs off of projects to restart the Legendary crafting that’s been sitting for X months.
3) months after the next expansion? Won’t they be in the same situation as they are now? Devs needed for Living World/next expansion and on top of that the precursor crafting will be that much older with all momentum gone.

So when? When are they going to restart? And how many months or years before “eventually” can be considered “cancelled.”

Ask, and i shall deliver.

http://s21.postimg.org/arl77zwsn/anet_meeting.png