Guild Wars 2

I have had several friends quit over this, and not even Orr farming but just simple event farming as a means of levelling (which to them is fun).

We really do need some response on this issue from Arena, as it is becoming a big deal. If we are being told we cannot play however we want (which was the draw to the game in the first place) we need to know what the rules are so we can decide if we’re willing to work within them or not.

The not knowing part is just turning people away.

I hate the current implementation of DR. Still love the game but feel that DR is not the solution to a growing problem (bots). Wanted to get that out of the way before I share.

Last week, I hit DR but was not paying attention so no, I cannot explain how. Today, I tried to test it out. I went to Cursed Shore. I did 4 events in 30 minutes – no DR. So I am now convinced that it is the speed at which you do events.

I am a slow player so I may not ever hit it again but here is my continued concern. Why does it even exist for events? Some people play fast. Some play efficiently. So what? If a person wants to run the Cursed Shore circuit doing events as fast as they can, so what?

The game itself encourages this. At first, I thought I would not be able to test because nothing popped. Then bam, things starting popping all over the place. If I had been faster, I know I would have been able to do 6 events in 30 minutes. And by do, I mean staying until they finish. Heck, I was in a zerg that pulled the broodmother boss to the area of our DE. So we had two DEs happening at same time in same area. And oh, none of them failed. Maybe if there were more mechanics introduced to make them different/more challenging, there would be less zerg.

Maybe the real issue is not how players are playing but how the events are designed. Should the mobs be running around in the same pattern every time? Should a group be able to kite a boss all the way over into another area? Should events be popping every 5 minutes within the same area? Should the events happen in the same area every time?

Repetitive design is a botter’s paradise. It is also boring and encourages “grinding.”

Only Arena Net would create a game where the end game is largely about farming (materials for legendary weapons, karma for sets, tokens for dungeon armor), and then go and create a roadblock to prevent people from farming.

How does this make any sense at all? How can they sit there and think that’s a good idea?

What an awful implementation (or rather subtraction) to the game. You all need to remove the DR as it is now, as it just encourages players to play less. If people enjoy farming, let them farm, what’s so hard about that?

MF Panda.5874:

I’m still amazed that people think the DR system is for botters. That makes no sense, not even as a kind of temporary stop-gap. Gold farmers have no interest in events (the gold income is equal to 1 green weapon), and players botting for themselves (e.g. a player botting events in order to farm karma) will eventually be banned – and in the meantime will gain nothing that isn’t account-/soulbound.

The point is one of the early posts by Anet mentioned it was an attempt to dissuade farming in general, but in particular by bots. Whether or not that’s sensible, it was what was said.

Instead of talking about botters, this discussion should focus more on the topic of whether or not it’s reasonable to diminish the rewards of those who are simply better at the game.

Wow, seriously?

Now, see….if DR just capped out people that kept farming the same mob over and over again for hours for the same drop (as it was originally described to us), I’d be willing to almost accept that.

Point of fact is it’s becoming hard to complete DE chains or dungeons even at a slower pace and still get loot. DR is now effectively penalizing people who are not, as you put it…“better at the game”. Which by the way is a load of egotistical pretenious elitist drivel, but that’s beside the point. If DR is affecting all or a majority of players, regardless of skill level, time dedicated to playing, mobs killed, or anything else…there’s a problem. It’s no longer penalizing “hardcore” farmers be they bots or human..it’s actively penalizing anyone that plays the game for more than short periods. We need a clear answer from Anet as to what their intentions were, how they WANT it to work, and what if anything they intend to change.

sanadin

You’re intentionally being divisive and insulting, please stop. This thread is meant to convey legitimate concerns, questions and examples to the development team. No one is asking you to agree with us or play the way we do, and no one has to prove anything to you. This is the last time I will reply to you.

I have tried and still try to counter your own experiences with my own and provide context to the examples I have seen. You cannot post a discussion about a statement in a public forum and expect otherwise – non-public feedback methods are for that.

You post a statement that is blatantly wrong according to some and they point that out, countering your examples with their own. It is how discussion works. Throwing a hissy fit about it will not help you case.

As it stands, “the way you play” is determined not in the spirit of the games system and the karma DR points that out to you. If it gets adjusted, fine, but you are not being punished. All games have boundaries and trying to outsmart them typically does not end well, which has been my point for the bunyhopping event farming from the get go – you can do it. Just expect for the system to push back for not actually contributing.

Dalendria brings up a good point. While I have not yet run into the DR, I’m concerned I might. I’d like to see for myself what people are doing and how they are doing it when they do hit it.

My concern about seeing video evidence is more to see if there is a way to figure out what the triggers are than to downplay what people are saying about it. Telling me what you THINK caused it is again, anecdotal. Showing me what you were doing allows me to make my own observations and conclusions about what caused it to kick in.

Sanadin wrote:

“You’re intentionally being divisive and insulting, please stop. This thread is meant to convey legitimate concerns, questions and examples to the development team. No one is asking you to agree with us or play the way we do, and no one has to prove anything to you. This is the last time I will reply to you.”

So, if you post anything that disagrees with Sanadin…then shut up.

DR as far as I can tell only hits those who are trying to jimmy the system to thier advantage. Its like a thief griping about a new lock messin up his lockpick.

Somehow…I kinda think ANet knows this.

Proof that the DR system does actually exist
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/6163/gw001.jpg

As you can see the person in the screenshot is actually doing heart events while an event is happening at the same location (its at one of the norn areas, cant remember the name) and has somehow hit the DR system even though he doesnt look to be farming events.

Perhaps it’s tagging way too many mobs? I for sure try to tag them all when playing as ranger.. if not, then I really have no clue..

Morgoth

As you can see the person in the screenshot is actually doing heart events while an event is happening at the same location (its at one of the norn areas, cant remember the name) and has somehow hit the DR system even though he doesnt look to be farming events.

…And you deduce all that form a single screenshot?

If that is indeed the case, then it sounds like a bug. A particular chain/even in the Norn area does seem to do that according to some.

Ya I’m sorry, but Arena net dropped the ball on this one, allot of my guild mates just quit because DR was too frustrating, and once you’ve hit level cap then things just become an endless grind, I may check in now and again but seriously this isn’t as fun as when I first started playing the game, its beginning to smell allot like Diablo 3….And I hate that smell..

silencer.5028:

Morgoth

As you can see the person in the screenshot is actually doing heart events while an event is happening at the same location (its at one of the norn areas, cant remember the name) and has somehow hit the DR system even though he doesnt look to be farming events.

…And you deduce all that form a single screenshot?

If that is indeed the case, then it sounds like a bug. A particular chain/even in the Norn area does seem to do that according to some.

I’m interested in why you’re so behind this DR system as it’s currently implemented.

In a game where farming, outside of PvP, is the end-game, how is the implementation that discourages farming a good thing?

I like DR in theory but I too find it frustratingly easy to hit.

For me the problem is DR with ‘farming’ crafting mats. My leatherworking is waaay too low for a lvl 80 thief, so I hit some lower level areas to kill some skales to farm blue mats. I killed maybe 10-15 of them, got 2 blue drops and stopped receiving loot entirely.

…Yay?

Note: I also killed other enemies while there (Gryphons, hyenas and spiders)

Exactly my point, they basically ruined a major part of end game farming for the PVE players.

Jason King said this while closing a recent thread on the subject of DR on DE’s:

“Hi everyone,

Thank you for your feedback about the diminishing returns system. As a reminder, we’re all about iteration and sincerely value your thoughts and opinions; we’ll provide more information on this issue soon. In the meantime, please direct your discussion to this thread so that we can keep this topic focused in one place. Thanks again!"

Hopefully this means we will get some answers sometime soon.

Here. Here’s more proof – this is after doing maybe 1 or 2 DE’s prior to this chain.

I hit this DR, was like wtf…went to Orr to see if it was map based – was going well for a while and then DR hit after like the 3rd DE.

http://imgur.com/ltpJ9
http://imgur.com/PSEh4
http://imgur.com/lpKN6
http://imgur.com/traSu

To those saying this is a bug – You are merely speculating as Arenanet has not stated so, and has been ignoring the general topic; therefore you don’t know you are just spewing what you want to be true. To those who are saying “I haven’t experienced it, therefore it doesn’t exist” – You experience doesn’t reign true for everyone. Maybe you are playing ineffectively, maybe you don’t play the game at a speed that others might, maybe you are a special snowflake that is protected against the code, who knows. Arenanet hasn’t said what caused it, hasn’t said their philosophy, or anything on the topic.

I’d be happy to replicate the DR system for those of you thinking it’s some made up fairy tale when I log on for the 3-4 hours a day I get to play.

I personally hope it’s a bug. That would be great to know that when I just run Dynamic Events that I can reap the karma/gold benefits as I assume I should get. Is it a bug? Don’t know, no one knows except for the developers of the game, so stop trying to claim you know otherwise.

If people are skipping content in your dungeons then you fix the bugs so they can’t do that.

If people are bringing in Karma faster then you expected by chaining small contributions to events then you adjust the contribution system so that they have to stay longer and don’t get gold for doing next to nothing.

If you don’t want people to mass farm a certain type of monster, then you adjust the skills and distribution of that monster (mix in some monsters of other types) so that mass farming is more difficult.

You do not implement some kind of normalized returns where everyone is only allowed to make X amount of money per hour. This secret behind the scenes penalty for playing well is a really bad solution. All the rules of the game that we can see tell us to play a certain way, but then this extra hidden rules penalizes us for doing so.

Lydeck.5214:

silencer.5028:

Morgoth

As you can see the person in the screenshot is actually doing heart events while an event is happening at the same location (its at one of the norn areas, cant remember the name) and has somehow hit the DR system even though he doesnt look to be farming events.

…And you deduce all that form a single screenshot?

If that is indeed the case, then it sounds like a bug. A particular chain/even in the Norn area does seem to do that according to some.

I’m interested in why you’re so behind this DR system as it’s currently implemented.

In a game where farming, outside of PvP, is the end-game, how is the implementation that discourages farming a good thing?

I’ve farmed my way to a set of exotics in days. Then farmed 0 to 400 of Hunstman in another day or two via Orr runs. Currently finishing putting together mats for an exotic rifle after 3 exotic weapons and a full armor set. I have never, ever had any problem farming events, mats, whatever in the game and spent a very good share doing it. Gotten two t3 cultural rares for karma before that along with assorted jewelery/gathering tools/salvage kits/what have you kitten well. I enjoy the gameplay itself, farming is just a secondary bonus.

I do not have a problem with people who farm, apart from the challenge that will get old sooner or later it is one of the cores of the MMO genre in general. The DR system does not discourage farming in any way that I have noticed.

What it does discourage is speedruning, finding “expert” (and I use the term loosely) paths that give you higher rewards without any contribution to the actual event you “tag” on the way. This is not “smart” or whatever you call it, its finding loopholes in a certain system and using them to put yourself above the curve. And it is fine in a game that you play by yourself or where that is the object of the game. Not so much in a game that by default is meant to be played with many, many other players, which has been one of my points in support of the DR system as it is.

Again, there do seem to be bugs with the system in general and fixing them should be done asap. But as a general system to discourage behavior as stated above, I’m all for it.

Farming is not the endgame. That’s a misunderstanding on some players’ part. Grinding is also not intended to be the endgame.

None of the long-term rewards in the game require farming or grinding. It’s only the impatience and entitlement mentality that lead players to attempt to find loopholes and tricks in the mechanics to gain all rewards in the shortest possible time. It’s that idea that everything has to be achievable in a short time that leads players to feel a necessity to grind or farm. I have to stop playing an enjoyable game, and start gaming the system in any way possible to maximize my rewards and efficiency. It’s a problem with players…not with the game.

If you just play, you’ll accumulate rewards. It’s meant to take time, and be fun. It’s not even very slow, to be honest… you get rewards pretty quickly without doing anything except wandering and doing whatever you run into…no careful planning or math involved.

I’m behind the DR system for many reasons. I’ve outlined them in recent threads. I think it’s in place as a socially-oriented gating mechanic…nudging players into exploring and taking part in the open world and social activities rather than holing up in one spot for maximum efficiency. It’s necessary because many of the loot acquisition gating mechanics that were in previous MMORPGs are not present in GW2…because it’s a new and different design with a different philosophy.

I think the people being affected are not providing clear evidence because they know that they are gaming the system. They are finding little tricks to avoid just playing and to gain loot faster, getting hit with DR, and coming here to complain and pretend they are pure as the driven snow. I don’t buy it. There very well might be some bugs, but if so…provide clear and complete evidence so that ArenaNet can fix those bugs.

All the rest is just overreaction, sensationalism and mob mentality, getting worked up and emotional without real facts…and probably at least some gold sellers who are trying to stir up trouble to make their lives easier in game.

I think it is important to note that the DR does not just effect Karma, DEs, or those that farm or “grind.”

I’ve been playing the game as intended and have been hit with major DR on drops, specifically for Risen mobs for the past 2 weeks.

I have been keeping track of the issue here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Anti-Bot-code-kicking-in-from-regular-play/first

I completely agree with DR doing nothing but hurting real players when it affects karma and dungeon tokens.

When the game first came out, I was a big defender of mob drop DRs. It mainly affected bots that stood in one place, but there was a large variety of ways to farm for players that actually moved around. With the global trading post even if you needed ‘x’ ingredient, it was easy to farm ‘y’ ingredient that was valued the same and sell it for more ‘x’ ingredient once you hit DR.

Overall it was an acceptable way to curb botting while not affecting real players too much, since it was only bound by mob type/area.

Then they introduced dungeon DR which was completely broken for 1 week and only screwed over real players. First off, tokens should never be subject to DR. Tokens buy soul bound items that cannot be traded. It does not affect the economy, cannot be botted, and is primarily cosmetic. I can understand wanting to maybe DR experience/silver when the CoF and CM story “exploits” were going on, but that was really just poor balancing. Specific dungeons should have been fixed (like they were) but introducing DR at the same time of the fix is just pointless and as shown, ended up hurting more normal players then actually doing anything worthwhile. Real players actually running through challenging dungeons should not be penalized for having optimal groups, being able to do dungeons faster after doing it 10 times, etc. That is part of being a better player, or having a more organized group. It is insane that there is a DR system for something like that.

The new karma DR is in the same boat. Bots are not farming karma, they are farming gold (karma is a byproduct since DE events are easy to bot because they never require a bot to move). Bots cannot sell karma or karma items, they are also usually temporary accounts. Botters fully intend to be banned eventually, but as long as they can make more $ then it costs to buy an account they are happy. 99% of botters aren’t going to bot on a main account, and the 1% who do are just people who happened to find/purchase a bot and don’t really know anything about them. Putting a DR on karma when it takes ~2million karma for 1 legendary or 248k karma for an exotic armor set, which only affects real played accounts, is just insane.

This is where the real disconnect between the devs and the players comes in:
Anet wants high end cosmetic items to be a grind, but removes the ability for players to grind them. This makes the game become a waiting game instead of a grind, punishing players for actually playing the game or allowing casuals to get in large chunks of gametime say on the weekend when they have no time to play during the week. It creates a model similar to all those browser based games where you get ‘5’ energy every 30 minutes, and can only do a certain amount of actions per day. I’m sure many people have experienced those games, mafiawars, hobowars, farmville, etc.

That is essentially what is happening as Anet continues to add more and more DRs that affect account bound currencies and take effect in as little as 1-2 hours.

Uh, when your farming in Orre, the DR system DOES discourage the player from continuing, which is basically just punishing the player by saying, “Ya you did well killing that group of high leveled mobs….here’s some junk loot for your troubles”, and now from what I just heard the DR is effecting mining nodes….seriously? Now its just getting ridiculous. I really want to know from arena net if DR was implemented/updated to combat bots because in a way it just seems like a quick fix and in doing so your just going to annoy allot of players, and players can only take so much from such a horrible anti-farming system.

Edenknight…

Thx for posting photos.
Maybe we are closer to solving this problem… by looking at the clock on your post it only shows 3 minutes have passed, yet you score multiple DE’s over this time. Perhaps its all in the method, I assume you are tagging then moving on, looks like this behaviour could trigger the DR.

It would also support my claims, that doing DE’s one after the other (after the first has been finished, and not tagging multiples) shows no sign of DR.

This would seem to be an abuse of the designed system and would support the heavy handed, and not all that well thought threw, approach we have now.

Morgeth… good find, I have just seen that myself. Hopefully this does indeed mean we may hear something official soon

The thread I originally posted in was closed and we were told to move over here so I just want to throw my 2 cents in if I may.

I have read quite a few comments stating this only affects high levels or people who farm. Well, I can say from experience that this is not the case.
My level 20 Necro was finishing up the map in Metrica province and was hit with the DR stick in less than an hour of gameplay.

I am a 46 yo husband and father who is lucky enough to have a wife and kids that give me a few hours uninterrupted once or twice a week to enjoy gaming. It is extremely frustrating to sit down with my office door closed and my cup of joe in hand expecting to spend some time leveling my character only to be hit with this insane system.

I do not feel it is acceptable to punish people who are actively playing the game regardless of how they choose to enjoy it. When I am able to sit down and enjoy a few hours of game time it is unacceptable to me to be punished so that I must change activities or modify my playstyle to accommodate some DR system.

I want to clarify that for me being level 20 and trying to level my first toon to 80 it affects me with a greatly reduced experience reward as well. For me it isn’t all about the karma, but I imagine it will be eventually if this gets sorted out. I am swiftly losing my desire to try and level my toon with these unnecessary restrictions in place.

Fozzik.1742:

Farming is not the endgame. That’s a misunderstanding on some players’ part. Grinding is also not intended to be the endgame.

None of the long-term rewards in the game require farming or grinding. It’s only the impatience and entitlement mentality that lead players to attempt to find loopholes and tricks in the mechanics to gain all rewards in the shortest possible time. It’s that idea that everything has to be achievable in a short time that leads players to feel a necessity to grind or farm. I have to stop playing an enjoyable game, and start gaming the system in any way possible to maximize my rewards and efficiency. It’s a problem with players…not with the game.

If you just play, you’ll accumulate rewards. It’s meant to take time, and be fun.

I’m behind the DR system for many reasons. I’ve outlined them in recent threads. I think it’s in place as a socially-oriented gating mechanic…nudging players into exploring and taking part in the open world and social activities rather than holing up in one spot for maximum efficiency. It’s necessary because many of the loot acquisition gating mechanics that were in previous MMORPGs are not present in GW2…because it’s a new and different design with a different philosophy.

I think the people being affected are not providing clear evidence because they know what they are gaming the system. They are finding little tricks to avoid just playing and to gain loot faster, getting hit with DR, and coming here to complain and pretend they are pure as the driven snow. I don’t buy it. There very well might be some bugs, but if so…provide clear and complete evidence so that ArenaNet can fix those bugs.

All the rest is just overreaction, sensationalism and mob mentality, getting worked up and emotional without real facts…and probably at least some gold sellers who are trying to stir up trouble to make their lives easier in game.

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

Edenknight.9284:

Here. Here’s more proof – this is after doing maybe 1 or 2 DE’s prior to this chain.

I hit this DR, was like wtf…went to Orr to see if it was map based – was going well for a while and then DR hit after like the 3rd DE.

http://imgur.com/ltpJ9
http://imgur.com/PSEh4
http://imgur.com/lpKN6
http://imgur.com/traSu

To those saying this is a bug – You are merely speculating as Arenanet has not stated so, and has been ignoring the general topic; therefore you don’t know you are just spewing what you want to be true. To those who are saying “I haven’t experienced it, therefore it doesn’t exist” – You experience doesn’t reign true for everyone. Maybe you are playing ineffectively, maybe you don’t play the game at a speed that others might, maybe you are a special snowflake that is protected against the code, who knows. Arenanet hasn’t said what caused it, hasn’t said their philosophy, or anything on the topic.

I’d be happy to replicate the DR system for those of you thinking it’s some made up fairy tale when I log on for the 3-4 hours a day I get to play.

I personally hope it’s a bug. That would be great to know that when I just run Dynamic Events that I can reap the karma/gold benefits as I assume I should get. Is it a bug? Don’t know, no one knows except for the developers of the game, so stop trying to claim you know otherwise.

Yep, seen those, its the same Norn area as the screenshot above.

Was that done before or after the recent patch?
Did that happen after the a few events in any other zone?

That one starting Norn area seems to trigger the DR for karma way, way to early then it should.

How do we know its a bug? Probably because no other zone seems to do so.

Anet is not publicizing details about the karma DR due to the purposes it is supposed to serve. It only stands to logic that bugs within it and fixes to those are not public too. They probably should, at least to some degree.

Not arguing the DR appearing after a few events after myself, thats very clearly the system not working as indented. If something is exclusive to one area and can be repeated and verified, but does not happen in any other, then yeah, its not black magic, it is a bug.

Nah, I stick around for the entire DE. I don’t do shady activity or just get gold and move on.. I’m not abusing any system, I’m merely playing the game with my friends and guildmates which happen to track different DE’s across the world map and share the information.

The reason there’s so many within 3 minutes is because it’s a chain event, you complete multiple steps of the entire event in a short period of time. If they don’t want people to participate in these, then they should just have one huge bonus at the end and make it harder to get ‘gold’ status.

Edit to save another post to respond to ^ : I can replicate it when I am home. You can replicate it. All of my screenshots are post-patch, I’ve -never- had this issue prior to the patch a few days ago. I obviously don’t know the EXACT triggers to cause it, but as time goes on, it will become more obvious to what causes it.

Oh and yes, I’ve had the same problem in Orr. I played my alt yesterday so I didn’t have much chance to try to replicate the issue last night. I’ll try to replicate it tonight doing completely normal game activity.

Hrm, seems like this isn’t a minor issue anymore or however its being treated, the more people speak up about this the quicker arena net will realize that players are becoming demoralized….but seriously have you seen the prices for tier one mats at TP? Its ridiculous how much they’ve gone up…

That series of pics Edenknight posted is an event chain and it can happen rather quick if you have a nice sized group. If you notice his first pic shows the full reward, and all the remaining ones show the reduced reward for the events that follow in the chain. Apparently the reduction occurred while they were in the process of doing the chain.

Edenknight.9284:

Here. Here’s more proof – this is after doing maybe 1 or 2 DE’s prior to this chain.

I hit this DR, was like wtf…went to Orr to see if it was map based – was going well for a while and then DR hit after like the 3rd DE.

http://imgur.com/ltpJ9
http://imgur.com/PSEh4
http://imgur.com/lpKN6
http://imgur.com/traSu

To those saying this is a bug – You are merely speculating as Arenanet has not stated so, and has been ignoring the general topic; therefore you don’t know you are just spewing what you want to be true. To those who are saying “I haven’t experienced it, therefore it doesn’t exist” – You experience doesn’t reign true for everyone. Maybe you are playing ineffectively, maybe you don’t play the game at a speed that others might, maybe you are a special snowflake that is protected against the code, who knows. Arenanet hasn’t said what caused it, hasn’t said their philosophy, or anything on the topic.

I’d be happy to replicate the DR system for those of you thinking it’s some made up fairy tale when I log on for the 3-4 hours a day I get to play.

I personally hope it’s a bug. That would be great to know that when I just run Dynamic Events that I can reap the karma/gold benefits as I assume I should get. Is it a bug? Don’t know, no one knows except for the developers of the game, so stop trying to claim you know otherwise.

From the time stamp in the picture, you did 4 events in 3 minutes. That’s incredibly fast, no wonder you hit the diminishing returns limit.

Hlaford.9863:

Edenknight.9284:

Here. Here’s more proof – this is after doing maybe 1 or 2 DE’s prior to this chain.

I hit this DR, was like wtf…went to Orr to see if it was map based – was going well for a while and then DR hit after like the 3rd DE.

http://imgur.com/ltpJ9
http://imgur.com/PSEh4
http://imgur.com/lpKN6
http://imgur.com/traSu

To those saying this is a bug – You are merely speculating as Arenanet has not stated so, and has been ignoring the general topic; therefore you don’t know you are just spewing what you want to be true. To those who are saying “I haven’t experienced it, therefore it doesn’t exist” – You experience doesn’t reign true for everyone. Maybe you are playing ineffectively, maybe you don’t play the game at a speed that others might, maybe you are a special snowflake that is protected against the code, who knows. Arenanet hasn’t said what caused it, hasn’t said their philosophy, or anything on the topic.

I’d be happy to replicate the DR system for those of you thinking it’s some made up fairy tale when I log on for the 3-4 hours a day I get to play.

I personally hope it’s a bug. That would be great to know that when I just run Dynamic Events that I can reap the karma/gold benefits as I assume I should get. Is it a bug? Don’t know, no one knows except for the developers of the game, so stop trying to claim you know otherwise.

From the time stamp in the picture, you did 4 events in 3 minutes. That’s incredibly fast, no wonder you hit the diminishing returns limit.

You are right, since that chain event is 7 events I should definitely only do 2 and leave the map out of respect to our new overlord, DR. God forbid I want to do a chain of events.

@Edenknight – I noticed that you’re an 80 doing a level 11 event chain.

Is it possible that karma DR kicks in harder depending on your level? I could see that as a good way to discourage high-level players from farming easier, more dependable low-level events for karma. They do a lot of similar things to encourage (but not force) you to play in zones that are level-appropriate.

Margoth

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Also, like I mentioned above, I see the DR system as being a very positive and necessary thing for the game. I don’t think it is the evil beast that people are trying to make it out to be, and I don’t think it affects players unless 1) there’s a bug, or 2) they are playing clearly outside what the developers intended.

So then with DR being enforced during chain events that will discourage players from participating…..great….world events are gonna be so much more fun now…

Fayte.1803:

but seriously have you seen the prices for tier one mats at TP? Its ridiculous how much they’ve gone up…

Yup, makes levling any crafting that requires claws, blood, totems etc. a royal pain in the kitten and I’m not even allowed to “farm” them myself..

Since I know ANet is actively tracking this thread:

I don’t farm karma, so I don’t normally notice DR until my loot dries up, which happens pretty quickly. I like to use one or two DEs that spawn big mobs of Risen to wade through them, chopping. It feels very good to slam the F key and pick up about fifteen items at once. Unfortunately, this lasts about ten minutes at most before the loot switches off.

My concern isn’t that I can’t farm. My concern is that I have to farm. You said “we hate grind in MMORPGs.” Yet, look at what you’ve done here. Take a look at Guild Wars 1, which was a much better game in terms of progression and breaking conventions. Head to Droknar’s, talk to Morgren or Siegfried, buy your (very cheap) max level armor. No rarities, no list of extra accessories that can’t seem to be found on NPCs. And there’s actually a reason to use minor runes over superior ones, so that isn’t even expensive. I don’t know what notions you invented for yourselves during board meetings about why this sort of grind is necessary, but I hope you see it’s obvious now how foolish these decisions have been. What concerns me is that I don’t think you do; I think you’re still confident in your choices and that things will just work out over the months. They won’t. You need to actively fix the immense problems your game has with rewards feeling like a slap in the face, gold grinds being present in all actions, and the cost of basic needs like exotic armor/weapons (and these are needs, not desires; skins are the unimportant point, remember?) being difficult at all to get.

We don’t want to farm. But we are forced to in order to do anything because you keep attaching these insane costs to everything. You’ve actually made MMO endgames worse because at least in other MMOs, sure, there’s a long, long grind, but getting massive amounts of loot and rare items of actual worth feels very good, on the road of that grind. In your game, the grind is there, but you’re so paranoid about the economy that you’re denying players their sense of achievement in the process. This is the worst combination possible.

Get rid of attribute reroll costs, introduce new skills, fix the worthless skills and traits that are already atrophying build creativity, remove waypoint gold costs entirely (players just don’t use them at all unless forced to, because of this), remove DR, reduce the cost of basic equipment, make all basic equipment available from one source in one place without a convoluted song and dance required for it, introduce more skins to choose from, make all chests drop rares or above only, make low level zones drop level 80 gear only and bags containing zone-specific materials, make repeating completion of zones around the world grant special items or rewards, change enemy types in Orr, hire new writers and stop putting Kormir’s into our kitten stories. This game, is a mess.

Here’s my biggest advice: the player’s everyday experience with the game is paramount – far more important than the global game economy will ever be. If you are actively making the player’s experience worse because you’re afraid of what bots will do, or that some items will be too common, or whatever, you’re making your game worse, and you’re making our experiences with your product an unenjoyable one. Stop putting the burden of your internal systems on us and start making the game all about the way we have fun. No DRs. No gold sinks. No grinding. Just stop it. I stopped playing because when I logged in, I can only think about all the things I have to do just to finish my first set of “perfect” armor (just in terms of stats), how this will inevitably involve doing the same DE chain in Orr for hours across several weeks, avoiding the massive gold sinks throughout the game, and I just get depressed and give up. Maybe I’m “playing wrong.” Maybe. But I bought every GW1 expansion there was, and used your cash shop in the process; I won’t be buying anything GW2-related until you return to the ideals that you were preaching on before release, and the theories that made GW1 a MMO that was fun to play, with MMO conventions as an afterthought.

Sparkie.3465:

@Edenknight – I noticed that you’re an 80 doing a level 11 event chain.

Is it possible that karma DR kicks in harder depending on your level? I could see that as a good way to discourage high-level players from farming easier, more dependable low-level events for karma. They do a lot of similar things to encourage (but not force) you to play in zones that are level-appropriate.

Don’t know, no one knows. I could possibly see that as a scenario. Wouldn’t make much sense to me though to punish people going to lower level maps as they have a scaling system. I personally don’t like Orr, but that’s aside from the topic really. It wouldn’t be wise to pigeonhole people into one zone because it’s ‘level appropriate’.

Edenknight.9284:

Hlaford.9863:

Edenknight.9284:

Here. Here’s more proof – this is after doing maybe 1 or 2 DE’s prior to this chain.

I hit this DR, was like wtf…went to Orr to see if it was map based – was going well for a while and then DR hit after like the 3rd DE.

http://imgur.com/ltpJ9
http://imgur.com/PSEh4
http://imgur.com/lpKN6
http://imgur.com/traSu

To those saying this is a bug – You are merely speculating as Arenanet has not stated so, and has been ignoring the general topic; therefore you don’t know you are just spewing what you want to be true. To those who are saying “I haven’t experienced it, therefore it doesn’t exist” – You experience doesn’t reign true for everyone. Maybe you are playing ineffectively, maybe you don’t play the game at a speed that others might, maybe you are a special snowflake that is protected against the code, who knows. Arenanet hasn’t said what caused it, hasn’t said their philosophy, or anything on the topic.

I’d be happy to replicate the DR system for those of you thinking it’s some made up fairy tale when I log on for the 3-4 hours a day I get to play.

I personally hope it’s a bug. That would be great to know that when I just run Dynamic Events that I can reap the karma/gold benefits as I assume I should get. Is it a bug? Don’t know, no one knows except for the developers of the game, so stop trying to claim you know otherwise.

From the time stamp in the picture, you did 4 events in 3 minutes. That’s incredibly fast, no wonder you hit the diminishing returns limit.

You are right, since that chain event is 7 events I should definitely only do 2 and leave the map out of respect to our new overlord, DR. God forbid I want to do a chain of events.

I’m not saying anything like that, but for the fact that DR is triggered from quick kills and loot in a set amount of time theoretically, but that is stupid quick for even a chain of DE. Also, I wasn’t saying anything bad, just making a statement that you did that REALLY fast, which could be seen as farming. It’s hard to distinguish legit event completion from farming event completion. This is most likely DR not working as intended.

No need for sarcasm. Doing something quicker than intended (you had a really large group) is bound to be hit.

Fozzik.1742:

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Considering this has been in place for a week or two, none of what you say you’ve done has any bearing with regards to this system with the exception of what you did (or didn’t do) in Orr.

I hope that the DR hasn’t been attached to resource nodes in the world, but at the moment I wouldn’t put it past Arenanet

I’ve recently heard that DR now affects world vs world. I haven’t done any WvW for a while, so I wouldn’t know, but is there any truth to this?

Hrm, actually after discussing it with a few other people…wouldn’t this be in their favor? If people can’t farm then prices for mats go up in TP….then when players start to get desperate they turn to the gem/currency exchange system….see this is why gold farmers get so much bussiness….maybe making mats easier to farm will discourage people from buying gold? Those cutting the head off the gold farmers for good?….maybe?

It really is unfortunate that such a steep priority seems to have been placed on prohibiting how we enjoy the game, and how long we’re permitted to enjoy it. What happened to making a game that is fun, and what gamers want? No gamer wants to have to wonder ‘hey, can I continue playing in the way I am enjoying right now, or is the game about to start punishing me for doing so?’. None.

I get that ANet was not able to keep their ‘no grind’ promise. It’s harder to do than it sounds, especially in a game with a gear ceiling where there needs to be pacing for the sake of giving people something to do when they don’t want to explore or do pvp. But you can’t put a grind into the game and then attempt to force everyone to be unable to actually complete it at every turn, then call that ‘fun’ or even ‘functional’.

@ Fayte: How would making Karma harder to farm get them more Gem purchases, exactly? Since Karma items tend to be account bound, you’re not buying those off the TP. They certainly won’t be getting more Karma Booster purchases from it, given there are a number of reports in this very thread of the DR trumping the booster halfway through its duration.

Terrant.2903:

MF Panda.5874:

I’m still amazed that people think the DR system is for botters. That makes no sense, not even as a kind of temporary stop-gap. Gold farmers have no interest in events (the gold income is equal to 1 green weapon), and players botting for themselves (e.g. a player botting events in order to farm karma) will eventually be banned – and in the meantime will gain nothing that isn’t account-/soulbound.

The point is one of the early posts by Anet mentioned it was an attempt to dissuade farming in general, but in particular by bots. Whether or not that’s sensible, it was what was said.

Instead of talking about botters, this discussion should focus more on the topic of whether or not it’s reasonable to diminish the rewards of those who are simply better at the game.

Wow, seriously?

…

You express some surprise at my suggestion to change the tone of discussion. Yes, the DR system is currently incredibly overbearing for many, many players and is clearly not working as intended by ANet. However, my point wasn’t about whether or not the current state of DR is acceptable, it was about whether DR for events or dungeons is acceptable at all.

One could make a good case for diminishing dropped loot rewards but why ever diminish experience or karma or other such rewards? That was what I was getting at.

Fozzik.1742:

Margoth

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Also, like I mentioned above, I see the DR system as being a very positive and necessary thing for the game. I don’t think it is the evil beast that people are trying to make it out to be, and I don’t think it affects players unless 1) there’s a bug, or 2) they are playing clearly outside what the developers intended.

I have 50 mystic clovers, 100% world map complete, a majority of my 250 stacks of T6 mats, my gift of energy, gift of color (minus arah tokens), my fully decked out exotic gears, and a nice set of TA dungeon gear. I haven’t hit the Karma DR whilst gathering any of that prior to the patch a few days ago. Loot DR? Sure, because you hit it in Orr if you can do anything effectively or decide to participate in chain events. The system is punishing to legitimate play, there’s nothing weird about these scenarios. Unless they seriously expect us to play with major breaks in between of a given hour.

The burden of proof lays on the person who makes the claim (Anti-DR folks) – I provided some proof with some shoddy screenshots as I just took them as a wow, look at this. However, with some approach to detail here, we can probably gather more reliable details on what causes it, why it happens, etc. Once we have that solid data, it can become a discussion of if it appropriate or not. I’m leaning towards not though, just because it is currently affecting legitimate players.

You know ,becaue I was frustrated by the DR not only beiing present but being broken too. (I was getting triggered on first events, and randomly.) I said in another post, “what’s next Dr on the mining nodes?” Holy cow, they actaully went and did it?! I’m speechless!

I uninstalled the game before the last patch, so I don’t know if this is factually true. However, people are saying it though and I have no reason to doubt them. While I still try to keep up with the news to see if the game gets fixed, I’m so happy that I left. Given what was going on, it was the right decision.

well i spoke my opinion about the DR problem and the post got deleted cause well its true.. anyways pandas might be fun after all good luck im not going to play a game that dosnt let me play it.

jibs.8463:

I think people need to be honest about something though. How quickly are they clearing the DEs? Do they actually complete the events, or just hit the mob enough to secure a bronze /silver / gold and then move on? I’ve never been hit by DR, and I stick with the event from start to end.

Same, I did a test last night. 1.5 hours farming DE’s and did about 18. Got the same about of Exp, Karma and money from them all.

Yes the company is aware of the issue that DR affects PVE with dynamic events. There are dozens and dozens of threads on all different sections of the forums. They have had weeks to respond to anyone of these threads and what it shows is that there isn’t a single response by a dev on this issue.

silence is acquiescence

They have not stated it to the general populace as to why they put it in and what triggers it (unlike in dungeons). They have not stated the reason they put it in (unlike in dungeons). They have simply silently and in a very non transparent manner (despite their contention that this is what they strive to be) slipped in this system.

Karma cannot be used to create any harm to the community. Karma gear cannot be salvaged and cannot be sold.

All I can say is that I find it tantamount to being hypocritical to their statement “Play the way you want to play”. If I want to go out and play several hours a day in Orr to get a full Karma set in a couple of weeks how does that break the game for them?

They should restate their motto: “Play the way you want to play, as long as it is the way WE want you to play. Shoot for the middle kids… Mediocrity the new Goal.”

I’m an MMO player of almost a decade now.
I’ve been playing GW2 since release.
Farming everyday.
I’ve only hit the DR with certain mobs, and only a few times.
Farmed for a few hours tonight, around the top half of a map, hit no DR, everything was successful, and I made my gold.

I just want to balance discussion – as always, lots of people are going to complain.
If anybody is reading this, know that it still is possible to farm, make cash, and enjoy the game! If you need more advice on how to do it, :p, just message me and I’ll give you some tips.
All the best guys and gals,
Rvr.

SHM.7628:

You know ,becaue I was frustrated by the DR not only beiing present but being broken too. (I was getting triggered on first events, and randomly.) I said in another post, “what’s next Dr on the mining nodes?” Holy cow, they actaully went and did it?! I’m speechless!

I uninstalled the game before the last patch, so I don’t know if this is factually true. However, people are saying it though and I have no reason to doubt them. While I still try to keep up with the news to see if the game gets fixed, I’m so happy that I left. Given what was going on, it was the right decision.

This apparently happens in Cursed Shore only, I did two gathering runs for T6 mats yesterday in Malachor’s Leap and experienced no such behavior. Definitely is a bug, not DR. Nodes already have a 5hr re-spawn time for the t6 mats.