Guild Wars 2

I would like to see a system implemented that is similar to the one that gives more EXP the longer a monster has been alive.

Reward players for finding those hidden away DEs with huge rewards. Remove DRs so that people who want to run around Orr can do so without interuption, but those who have a talent for finding obscure events get comparable rewards.

Apply this system to everything. Positive reinforcement. DEs give better karma, exp, and gold. Monsters not only give better exp, but also better loot.

I would love this sort of system.

Edenknight.9284:

Fozzik.1742:

Margoth

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Also, like I mentioned above, I see the DR system as being a very positive and necessary thing for the game. I don’t think it is the evil beast that people are trying to make it out to be, and I don’t think it affects players unless 1) there’s a bug, or 2) they are playing clearly outside what the developers intended.

I have 50 mystic clovers, 100% world map complete, a majority of my 250 stacks of T6 mats, my gift of energy, gift of color (minus arah tokens), my fully decked out exotic gears, and a nice set of TA dungeon gear. I haven’t hit the Karma DR whilst gathering any of that prior to the patch a few days ago. Loot DR? Sure, because you hit it in Orr if you can do anything effectively or decide to participate in chain events. The system is punishing to legitimate play, there’s nothing weird about these scenarios. Unless they seriously expect us to play with major breaks in between of a given hour.

The burden of proof lays on the person who makes the claim (Anti-DR folks) – I provided some proof with some shoddy screenshots as I just took them as a wow, look at this. However, with some approach to detail here, we can probably gather more reliable details on what causes it, why it happens, etc. Once we have that solid data, it can become a discussion of if it appropriate or not. I’m leaning towards not though, just because it is currently affecting legitimate players.

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

I’m just completely baffled by that fact that I was getting less and less karma (and experience/coin) rewarded for doing events while my first 60 minutes karma booster was still 10 minutes from expiring…

Why are these things even sold if we aren’t allowed to play for 1 hour straight?

Some videos of this can’t do anything but help. They will allow a large number of people to analyze how the person is playing, and with a group effort, we could probably figure out the exact triggers. They say that knowing is half the battle- in this case, I’d say knowing is much more than half. By knowing exactly how the DR is triggered, it should be pretty easy to avoid.

Seriously people, post some videos!

Vircomore.4586:

Edenknight.9284:

Fozzik.1742:

Margoth

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Also, like I mentioned above, I see the DR system as being a very positive and necessary thing for the game. I don’t think it is the evil beast that people are trying to make it out to be, and I don’t think it affects players unless 1) there’s a bug, or 2) they are playing clearly outside what the developers intended.

I have 50 mystic clovers, 100% world map complete, a majority of my 250 stacks of T6 mats, my gift of energy, gift of color (minus arah tokens), my fully decked out exotic gears, and a nice set of TA dungeon gear. I haven’t hit the Karma DR whilst gathering any of that prior to the patch a few days ago. Loot DR? Sure, because you hit it in Orr if you can do anything effectively or decide to participate in chain events. The system is punishing to legitimate play, there’s nothing weird about these scenarios. Unless they seriously expect us to play with major breaks in between of a given hour.

The burden of proof lays on the person who makes the claim (Anti-DR folks) – I provided some proof with some shoddy screenshots as I just took them as a wow, look at this. However, with some approach to detail here, we can probably gather more reliable details on what causes it, why it happens, etc. Once we have that solid data, it can become a discussion of if it appropriate or not. I’m leaning towards not though, just because it is currently affecting legitimate players.

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

I personally plan on taking all that stuff i farmed for and owning in WVW after i get it thats the point of farming it…

I’m confused on ArenaNet’s intent with the DR. It’s easy to hit DR in 30 mins or so of play, yet they sell 1 hour boosters for it.

If they didn’t intend for people to be farming that much, then why sell boosters for it?

Edenknight.9284:

Sparkie.3465:

@Edenknight – I noticed that you’re an 80 doing a level 11 event chain.

Is it possible that karma DR kicks in harder depending on your level? I could see that as a good way to discourage high-level players from farming easier, more dependable low-level events for karma. They do a lot of similar things to encourage (but not force) you to play in zones that are level-appropriate.

Don’t know, no one knows. I could possibly see that as a scenario. Wouldn’t make much sense to me though to punish people going to lower level maps as they have a scaling system. I personally don’t like Orr, but that’s aside from the topic really. It wouldn’t be wise to pigeonhole people into one zone because it’s ‘level appropriate’.

Mainly I’m saying that we need an apples-to-apples comparison. Your screen shots are excellent to demonstrate that this karma DR happens, but it’s more meaningful to have screen shots of it in ~80 zones during “normal play.” There are additional considerations in low-level zones – complicating factors.

They have lots of these measures in low level zones. I wouldn’t call it pigeonholing. I consider it a risk vs. reward issue. You take less risk in lowbie zones, so you earn a lower reward. That makes perfect sense, and I’d consider the game broken if I could farm for a legendary weapon just as effectively in a level 1-5 area as in a level 80+ area.

That doesn’t mean you can’t go to a level 1-5 area, it’s just less profitable. Otherwise, no one would ever leave the starter zones. I’d guess that you’d see karma in, say, a 70-80 zone that was nearly as good as an 80+ zone, and some respectable karma in a 60+ zone. If that’s the case, you still have plenty of flexibility but you can’t just stomp on things mindlessly in the newbie zones.

Vircomore.4586:

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

This completely ignores the fact that the DR is hitting those who are not farming, who are nowhere near a legendary, and who are playing the game as intended. I am one of the many who has been hit by the DR while playing the game precisely how it is intended.

Foreword My post was too long so I broke it up into multiple posts. Part 1:

This is a controversial topic for a lot of reasons. Some people hate to see a good thing spoiled by the abuse of a few. Some feel passionately that finding the most efficient path to reach their goals is the definition of abuse. Some feel that ArenaNet has created a game that does not require grinding (or their definition of it), and therefore those players should simply find another game. There’s a lot of heated gray area that can be attributed to semantics and lack of clear definition from ArenaNet.

Here’s a personal example:

I seek the Legendary Staff, the Bifrost. I realized this was an absolutely tremendous undertaking, and the most daunting aspect would likely be the karma cost (but it might end up being the gold cost).

Something I want to be clear on: I’ve never been a grinder. One of the things that drew me into Guild Wars 2 was their mission of providing enough diverse and exciting content that still rewards the player so they may meet their goals without grinding. Love it. I’ve played nearly 2 dozen MMOs since The Realm Online and this is the most exciting thing I’ve seen in the industry since 1998.

On the whole, Guild Wars 2 has delivered. I’ve done the WvW, I’ve done many of the dungeons, I’ve played the discovery in crafting as I leveled 3 professions to 400, I’ve explored and found relatively secret achievements, and I’m sitting at 70% map completion (I really don’t care for the snowy zones too much, so taking a break). It’s been a blast. The best part is that the combat is actually fun and engaging, something I’ve been personally yearning for for years.

Now enter the Bifrost. I knew I wanted this thing, badly… but I’m not a grinder. But that’s okay, right? Because Guild Wars 2 has enough content to let me run around and have fun and do all sorts of exciting things and still earn it without repeating the same content over and over, right?

Unfortunately, not. I examined every aspect of the game and there is simply no way to achieve these items without intense repetition of content. That can be PvP, that can be lower level zone Dynamic Events, that can be world bosses, but not matter how you cut it you WILL be repeating a lot of content. I was kind of upset. I didn’t want to grind but I wanted this stuff. Age old dilemma I guess, how much is that carrot worth it to you? I decided to give it a shot and head to Cursed Shore to see how bad it really was before making my decision. That’s the place with the best karma and the most players my level so it’s likely the best place to go.

Turns out it’s awesome. I mean, I’m making friends, I’m mastering the events, I’m getting the best loot I’ve ever gotten, I’m getting exponentially better at my class, learning where and why to relocate my traits, and most importantly I’m getting tons of karma. Guild Wars 2 really did deliver, they designed a fun way for me to meet the loftiest of goals. I was in love.

So now you may understand why I was heartbroken when this ripped away from me without explanation. I wasn’t abusing the system. I mean, wouldn’t always complete the events – but why should I? The game showed me that a minimum contribution of damage and/or time was sufficient to earn a gold contribution, not staying until completion. That was never a requirement in any of the hundreds and hundreds of events I’d done.

Ossus.9231:

Vircomore.4586:

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

This completely ignores the fact that the DR is hitting those who are not farming, who are nowhere near a legendary, and who are playing the game as intended. I am one of the many who has been hit by the DR while playing the game precisely how it is intended.

It does not ignore that. The post above is in response to that very issue. He advocates stricter DR thresholds. I don’t know if I agree, but his argument is well thought out and valid. I wish I could up vote it.

Part 2

Where does ArenaNet even say that’s wrong? I’m sorry, I don’t care about the abysmal chance I might get one loot from Champion Risen Abomination, lol. If they wanted me to stay to the end of every event … why not program it like that? All of this is beside the point, anyway, because we still don’t have confirmation from ArenaNet that leaving events before they end triggers the DR, and my personal test did not indicate this.

The point of my long story is that I like to spend hours running events in Cursed Shore. There’s nothing wrong with that. They designed the game this way, and I like it. There’s no reason why after 30 or 40 minutes (I hit the DR last night in 45 minutes, stayed to completion for 13 out of 15 of the events I played) that I should stop getting rewards.

Do you stop getting rewards in a dungeon for doing it too fast? No, of course not, that’s ridiculous. Do you stop getting rewards in WvWvW for being too good? Of course not. It’s all quite ridiculous. Imagine you bought $10 in gems and spent it all “Dungeon Boosters” so you could get the most rewards out of doing your favorite dungeon. 45 minutes into your first dungeon run, 25% before your FIRST booster is even finished, you stop getting rewards for killing anything in the dungeon and will receive no more tokens. Sucks, right? Ridiculous, right? What if I told you, “too bad, stop grinding dungeons, this game isn’t for you, go play WoW, we don’t want you, take a break, nolifer” How would you feel? You didn’t do anything wrong, you didn’t abuse the game. Why are your fellow players demonizing you and your playstyle? Why is the company punishing you? That’s karma DR.

Thankfully that is not the case with dungeons. As we all know we are rewarded for diversifying our actions and completing every path in the dungeon at least once a day. I think this is fabulous system. I was upset for about 5 minutes when I heard they had removed token speed runs, then I found out about this sytem; a system that actually encouraged a mastery of the dungeon. Yes!

So karma DR being this horrible “Dungeon Token” scenario I described is what I believe to be the problem. Right now players are being punished without any clear guidelines or explanation just for doing their favorite thing and/or working towards their favorite goals. Goals ArenaNet created, mind you. Reshaping the game solely around negative reinforcement hurts and frustrates players that have invested themselves financially and emotionally into this game.

If the karma DR exists because ArenaNet doesn’t want players running the same events for hours… well, I think that sucks, to be frank. I can run Dungeons for hours and still get 20 tokens a run, but I can’t do events and get karma? Why can’t events be like dungeons? Why not keep the minimum karma rewards for players that like to replay the content they’re exceptional at, and incentivize them to diversify their actions, just like dungeons. Even if that means reducing the karma level in Cursed Shore from 378 per run to a flat 300 but REMOVING the DR that makes the rewards almost 0, why not do it?

You can’t just have diminished returns. It’s a punishment mentality and is painfully in-congruent with their positive reinforcement style found everywhere else in the game.

Vircomore.4586:

Edenknight.9284:

Fozzik.1742:

Margoth

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Also, like I mentioned above, I see the DR system as being a very positive and necessary thing for the game. I don’t think it is the evil beast that people are trying to make it out to be, and I don’t think it affects players unless 1) there’s a bug, or 2) they are playing clearly outside what the developers intended.

I have 50 mystic clovers, 100% world map complete, a majority of my 250 stacks of T6 mats, my gift of energy, gift of color (minus arah tokens), my fully decked out exotic gears, and a nice set of TA dungeon gear. I haven’t hit the Karma DR whilst gathering any of that prior to the patch a few days ago. Loot DR? Sure, because you hit it in Orr if you can do anything effectively or decide to participate in chain events. The system is punishing to legitimate play, there’s nothing weird about these scenarios. Unless they seriously expect us to play with major breaks in between of a given hour.

The burden of proof lays on the person who makes the claim (Anti-DR folks) – I provided some proof with some shoddy screenshots as I just took them as a wow, look at this. However, with some approach to detail here, we can probably gather more reliable details on what causes it, why it happens, etc. Once we have that solid data, it can become a discussion of if it appropriate or not. I’m leaning towards not though, just because it is currently affecting legitimate players.

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

Even if you had a valid point that’s not the way to go about it, then you lower droprates/gain where appropriate, you don’t gate players.. that only leads to frustration (as we clearly are seeing).

Tatumi.8654:

I’m just completely baffled by that fact that I was getting less and less karma (and experience/coin) rewarded for doing events while my first 60 minutes karma booster was still 10 minutes from expiring…

Why are these things even sold if we aren’t allowed to play for 1 hour straight?

Maybe they’re sold in 1 hour increments so you don’t feel like you absolutely must squeeze every last bit of time from them? Maybe they thought this would make more casual players comfortable with them. You know, so you aren’t counting every second of every pee break and cursing every moment of load screen time.

I know I use the trade XP boosters when I’m going to be crafting for a bit, but I’m not waiting until I have 1 full hour of mats pre-planned and ready to just push the button. The 1-hour timer lets me feel like I’m not losing out when I need to run to the Trade Post and back to pick up one more strawberry for that cake, or when I need to run to my guild bank to get some odd component. It makes me feel like I don’t have to mind every single second of my booster, like I would if they were 5-minute or 15-minute increments. If I get 9/10 of the time to do something productive and I didn’t have to sweat the small stuff, I call that a win.

If you’re getting 50 minutes of nonstop karma events in a 60 minute booster, that sounds pretty respectable to me. Means you have a little time to run around to other events, some time to vendor trash, some time to inspect your drops if you get something cool, without watching your booster timer like a hawk.

While OP raises some valid questions,reading all the answers is crystal clear to me-a vast majority of posters in this one topic are not interested at all in any kind of dialogue-they are here just to blame ArenaNet.Complainers conviniently avoid even to answer those few reasonable posters.Also just plain refusing even to consider for a moment the effects they might suffer are unintentionally introduced and just bugs which will be fixed.At my high populated server i`m yet to see a single complain in map chat in Cursed Shore/Malchor`s Leap/Frostgorge Sound-areas i`m spending almost all my game time currently.Not even campers doing those 2 defending events in Cursed Shore are complaining…Doing events in these areas from the beginning to end reward good enough karma points in reasonable time.And what kind of DR while farming for fine crafting mats some people talking about?Killing some trolls and bears near them in Frostgorge Sound net me 1 powerful blood,few normal ones and surprisingly for first time some bones.Drop rate was more than fair for the amount i`ve spent.Quickly doing end event of Dwayna chain and all the events for Lyssa-over 1,5k in karma,exp,some silver,2 rares,lots of items to salvage,8 bones and items from both chest as rewards.And this with like 120-130 % MF if matters at all.Correct me if i`m wrong but i do think all the items i`ve had at the end are more than enough for the time i`ve spent doing those events.Reduced drop rate from risens?I wished they do drop something else apart from bones/venoms/dust as fine crafting mats.Over 100 bones,second stack of c.dust etc – good enough drop rate.But again i do not expect 100% chance to get something from each kill nor expecting to farm enough karma for 1 temple piece per day.So from my point of view and from those few positive posters in this topic-play the game in normal way and everything will be fine.But if some of complainers are like the few people i`ve noticed jumping from event to event or intentionally failing Grenth chain-well i do think 1 karma point is too much really for such behaviour.It is not the way game is meant to be played.Don`t blame ArenaNet for introducing such system and inevitable bugs with it -blame first of all all kind of botters/cheaters/exploiters/gold buyers.They are the reasons game companies spending and wasting so much time to try combat them instead to put said time in fixing bugs and introdusing new fun content.If you intend to start dialogue-instead just to put blame at others,saying i`m quitting,my guild members are quitting because of side effects/bugs of such system-better come with reasonable suggestions to improve it not to hurt legitimate players at all.

You express some surprise at my suggestion to change the tone of discussion. Yes, the DR system is currently incredibly overbearing for many, many players and is clearly not working as intended by ANet. However, my point wasn’t about whether or not the current state of DR is acceptable, it was about whether DR for events or dungeons is acceptable at all.

One could make a good case for diminishing dropped loot rewards but why ever diminish experience or karma or other such rewards? That was what I was getting at.

With respect, my surprise was your comment that people being affected by DR were “better at the game” for two reasons:

1) It appears to affect the vast majority of players, regardless of playstyle or skill.
2) Talking about whether it’s reasonable for Anet to punish people for being better at the game comes off horribly elitist. Were that not the intent, you have my apologies.

However, reading the above quote, your intent is msotly more in line with mine.

I am not opposed to the supposed intent behind DR: to discourage long-term farming of the same area. I am unsure DR in general is the best way to accomplish it; and I am positive that DR in its current implementation harms more than it helps. What I’d like to see is:

Scaling rewards. This was hinted at all through development but didn’t pan out. Let a level 80 get level 80 loot/karma in zones besides the level 80 ones. Obviously gathering nodes aren’t as easy to scale; that’s fine. At lest give them better drops from mobs and events. This will encourage high-level players to spread out across the world, and reduce the amount of time people spend in 1-2 zones, in 2-3 small areas, doing the same events or mobs repeatedly. If there were more places to get what you want, players might not overfarm one spot.

Regarding karma farming…I don’t know what to say. I think DR for karma is stupid. mostly because Anet deisgn gives us less and less reasons to even earn it. At the moment, Legendaries are about the only thing I think are worth spending karma on. Those require an immense amount, and yet it’s becoming harder to earn. This jsut seems again like poor design.

Ossus.9231:

This completely ignores the fact that the DR is hitting those who are not farming, who are nowhere near a legendary, and who are playing the game as intended. I am one of the many who has been hit by the DR while playing the game precisely how it is intended.

I’m not farming anything at all short of cooking ingredients, but I too have hit DR as well. It is highly demodivating when you’re pretty much not even able to play the way that ANet wants you to, let alone the way you want to, without hitting it.

I’ve hit DRs by trying to map complete a zone, or just wandering around trying to gather some cooking mats in Orr which ends up resulting in me getting almost no loot from mobs I wasn’t even trying to farm because they nonstop respawn and are in my way.

silencer.5028:

SHM.7628:

You know ,becaue I was frustrated by the DR not only beiing present but being broken too. (I was getting triggered on first events, and randomly.) I said in another post, “what’s next Dr on the mining nodes?” Holy cow, they actaully went and did it?! I’m speechless!

I uninstalled the game before the last patch, so I don’t know if this is factually true. However, people are saying it though and I have no reason to doubt them. While I still try to keep up with the news to see if the game gets fixed, I’m so happy that I left. Given what was going on, it was the right decision.

This apparently happens in Cursed Shore only, I did two gathering runs for T6 mats yesterday in Malachor’s Leap and experienced no such behavior. Definitely is a bug, not DR. Nodes already have a 5hr re-spawn time for the t6 mats.

TY for the reply and verification. It seems every new patch brings more bugs. This is troubling in and of itself. It seems anet is its own worst enemy. It is otherwise ruining a really great game.

I really think there’s only 2 ways this game is ever going to get the fixes it needs:

1) enough people stop playing.

2) a full organized boycott of the cash shop .

The reason why people are getting DR so easily in Orr is because the DE’s there are almost only those of the wave category for instance Melandru defend, Plinx chain, Tar, Rakkan etc. Because alot of people are lvl 80, the majority will stay in the lvl 80 zone (cursed shore). The thing is with wave DE’s is that they will speed up the faster the wave will get cleared. This results into DE’s that will last shorter then normal, thus speeding up the karma/h ratio.

Solutions could be:
1) Increase in difficulty, not only an increase in mob size, hp, armor but also an increase in siege, tactics and not just blatently running towards the first waypoint and die along the way.

2) Increase the amount of karma/loot given in ratio to a player his lvl, this means that a lvl 80 can get just as much loot/karma in Queensdale as he can in Orr.

3) Increase the spawning time of the DE’s in the current lvl 80 zone.

These are just some of the possible solutions. In my oppinion I would not go for 3, because 15 minutes is already a reasonable time. 1 is probally to much coding to implement in the near future, but option 2 is doable atleast for the karma/gold per event. At the moment you only get ~75% of the karma when completing a DE outside of Orr. Why not increase this into 100% or even 110% to stimulate players going towards other zones.

proteininja.5891:

Ossus.9231:

Vircomore.4586:

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

This completely ignores the fact that the DR is hitting those who are not farming, who are nowhere near a legendary, and who are playing the game as intended. I am one of the many who has been hit by the DR while playing the game precisely how it is intended.

It does not ignore that. The post above is in response to that very issue. He advocates stricter DR thresholds. I don’t know if I agree, but his argument is well thought out and valid. I wish I could up vote it.

Here is the flaw. While it is true the DR has not hit certain people, allowing them to get legendary items very quickly, it has disproportionately hit others, such as myself, who are playing the game as intended. There is not much you can do in a game when your only drops are porous bones.

I am confused as to why people seem to think that there is only one (or only a few) real proper ways to play an MMORPG.

I play for fun. Some people enjoy a sense of accomplishment. If I want to get 100% completion in dungeons, world exploration, then that’s the mountain I choose to climb – but that doesn’t mean that, if I dislike many aspects of a game but find one much more enjoyable than the others, it’s somehow “incorrect” for me to focus on it.

Why should the preference of other players dictate my own preferences?

So while taking into consideration how to correctly balance the game pace, economy, prestige (et al.) for players, attempting to dictate exactly how one is “supposed” to play is a little nonsensical.

Since, you know… game. Fun and stuff.

Humposaurus.5764:

The reason why people are getting DR so easily in Orr is because the DE’s there are almost only those of the wave category for instance Melandru defend, Plinx chain, Tar, Rakkan etc. Because alot of people are lvl 80, the majority will stay in the lvl 80 zone (cursed shore). The thing is with wave DE’s is that they will speed up the faster the wave will get cleared. This results into DE’s that will last shorter then normal, thus speeding up the karma/h ratio.

Solutions could be:
1) Increase in difficulty, not only an increase in mob size, hp, armor but also an increase in siege, tactics and not just blatently running towards the first waypoint and die along the way.

2) Increase the amount of karma/loot given in ratio to a player his lvl, this means that a lvl 80 can get just as much loot/karma in Queensdale as he can in Orr.

3) Increase the spawning time of the DE’s in the current lvl 80 zone.

These are just some of the possible solutions. In my oppinion I would not go for 3, because 15 minutes is already a reasonable time. 1 is probally to much coding to implement in the near future, but option 2 is doable atleast for the karma/gold per event. At the moment you only get ~75% of the karma when completing a DE outside of Orr. Why not increase this into 100% or even 110% to stimulate players going towards other zones.

Strong solutions, thank you for contributing. I actually loved Queensdale and would be thrilled at the opportunity to go back there for the same rewards as higher level zones.

I’m also into #2, I love a challenge. I’ve even come to appreciate having to deal with the relatively strong Risen around every corner in Cursed Shore and Malchors Leap (I’m a squishy glass canon, it’s a constant flight of fight).

And yeah, #3 would just mean more downtime with not much else to do in some of these zones besides fight the local trash mobs. I do it sometimes in between events, but it’s pretty boring. If the time could be increased such that I can pretty much always be doing an event as long as I’m running around the entire zone, still, that might work, but I imagine that would be difficult to time.

in brief … game before DR was what I was waiting for years … now is a piece of kitten … and that’s it …

Shazirah.8350:

I am confused as to why people seem to think that there is only one (or only a few) real proper ways to play an MMORPG.

I play for fun. Some people enjoy a sense of accomplishment. If I want to get 100% completion in dungeons, world exploration, then that’s the mountain I choose to climb – but that doesn’t mean that, if I dislike many aspects of a game but find one much more enjoyable than the others, it’s somehow “incorrect” for me to focus on it.

Why should the preference of other players dictate my own preferences?

So while taking into consideration how to correctly balance the game pace, economy, prestige (et al.) for players, attempting to dictate exactly how one is “supposed” to play is a little nonsensical.

Since, you know… game. Fun and stuff.

Exactly. A philosophy of negative reinforcement breeds discontent and frustration, as is being seen all over the forums. I have no problem with ArenaNet steering players towards other content, but the way to do that is by offering incentive – not punishment.

I want the game I paid for and got to play for a mere two weeks back, instead of this pale imitation (game + DR systems on loot and events) that is designed to waste my time.

DR when farming rare crafting materials is not that bad. Remember, they could always greatly reduce the drop rate and remove the DR. It took me around 4 hours to get 30 totems for a full exotic set. Those 4 hours were broken up into 20 minute intervals over 4 days. The first and second days were my best days, obtaining a majority of them (~25), whereas on day 3, they just stopped dropping and I only found ~2 of them in bags. Day 4 was almost the same but 1 dropped, finishing my farm.

DR on events, I’ve only had happen once. I did an event, went afk for an hour then returned, doing the same event, but now with DR on the rewards. I solo most events and do every one I see. Taking roughly 5 to 10 minutes each, I rarely see DR, even when doing chains and event after event. DR should be balanced around events taking at least 5 minutes to complete and there should be DR on farming the same event, but it shouldn’t last an hour+.

DR on drops in Orr is a little unfair. A majority of the mobs are of the same type, so DR is easy to hit. This makes it kind of unfair to those who truly play through the zone, clearing paths, rather than skipping through.

DR on gathering? What? I think I hit this once, last night. There was a mithril right next to a rich mithril. I mined the normal one then the rich one. The rich one vanished after 3 hits. I gather everything that appears on the minimap and that was the only time I’ve seen it. DR on gathering shouldn’t exist and the only reason for it is to combat teleport/speed hacker gatherers.

In general, I think DR is supposed to be a way to combat the unexpected – a sort of blanket fix to anything that could go wrong, be it hacking, exploiting, a bug or something else. There may be a few things to work out now, but eventually, you’ll probably never encounter it. I rarely do as it is, but then again, I don’t try to power farm.

Vircomore.4586:

Edenknight.9284:

Fozzik.1742:

Margoth

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Also, like I mentioned above, I see the DR system as being a very positive and necessary thing for the game. I don’t think it is the evil beast that people are trying to make it out to be, and I don’t think it affects players unless 1) there’s a bug, or 2) they are playing clearly outside what the developers intended.

I have 50 mystic clovers, 100% world map complete, a majority of my 250 stacks of T6 mats, my gift of energy, gift of color (minus arah tokens), my fully decked out exotic gears, and a nice set of TA dungeon gear. I haven’t hit the Karma DR whilst gathering any of that prior to the patch a few days ago. Loot DR? Sure, because you hit it in Orr if you can do anything effectively or decide to participate in chain events. The system is punishing to legitimate play, there’s nothing weird about these scenarios. Unless they seriously expect us to play with major breaks in between of a given hour.

The burden of proof lays on the person who makes the claim (Anti-DR folks) – I provided some proof with some shoddy screenshots as I just took them as a wow, look at this. However, with some approach to detail here, we can probably gather more reliable details on what causes it, why it happens, etc. Once we have that solid data, it can become a discussion of if it appropriate or not. I’m leaning towards not though, just because it is currently affecting legitimate players.

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

OMG Vircomore.4586’s post a thousand times!

This was one of the biggest selling points of GW 2. No more “fastest players set the pace”. No more “work in my game”.

Shazirah.8350:

I am confused as to why people seem to think that there is only one (or only a few) real proper ways to play an MMORPG.

I play for fun. Some people enjoy a sense of accomplishment. If I want to get 100% completion in dungeons, world exploration, then that’s the mountain I choose to climb – but that doesn’t mean that, if I dislike many aspects of a game but find one much more enjoyable than the others, it’s somehow “incorrect” for me to focus on it.

Why should the preference of other players dictate my own preferences?

So while taking into consideration how to correctly balance the game pace, economy, prestige (et al.) for players, attempting to dictate exactly how one is “supposed” to play is a little nonsensical.

Since, you know… game. Fun and stuff.

This, I really dislike people trying to dictate how I should play “as intended” because how I choose to play is not how they play and therefore it’s wrong. They also have remarkable insight into Anets intentions.

Vircomore.4586:

Edenknight.9284:

Fozzik.1742:

Margoth

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Also, like I mentioned above, I see the DR system as being a very positive and necessary thing for the game. I don’t think it is the evil beast that people are trying to make it out to be, and I don’t think it affects players unless 1) there’s a bug, or 2) they are playing clearly outside what the developers intended.

I have 50 mystic clovers, 100% world map complete, a majority of my 250 stacks of T6 mats, my gift of energy, gift of color (minus arah tokens), my fully decked out exotic gears, and a nice set of TA dungeon gear. I haven’t hit the Karma DR whilst gathering any of that prior to the patch a few days ago. Loot DR? Sure, because you hit it in Orr if you can do anything effectively or decide to participate in chain events. The system is punishing to legitimate play, there’s nothing weird about these scenarios. Unless they seriously expect us to play with major breaks in between of a given hour.

The burden of proof lays on the person who makes the claim (Anti-DR folks) – I provided some proof with some shoddy screenshots as I just took them as a wow, look at this. However, with some approach to detail here, we can probably gather more reliable details on what causes it, why it happens, etc. Once we have that solid data, it can become a discussion of if it appropriate or not. I’m leaning towards not though, just because it is currently affecting legitimate players.

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

More of this? Why do you care how I play? What if I’m having a “blast” finding out effective ways to farm for my legendary? How do you know? You don’t. Fallacies, fallacies everywhere.

Does me sitting in town with a legendary negatively impact your gaming experience? Nope.

Do you get to tell others how to play, or to quit because it’s not how the game is played? Nope.

Do I have fun playing Guild Wars 2? Yes, and that’s why I’m even on these forums fighting the one system in the game that needs reworking/to get rid of completely.

I don’t, and never will understand the controlling other people’s actions aspect that is so embedded into people’s thought process.

Orrrr they could just disable the DR completely until they fix the tweaks?

People are angry because we were promised ‘no grind’, but to fulfill endgame goals, there’s grind. And, with diminishing returns, we are actively being discouraged from grinding. There are so many diminishing return mechanics in the game that it’s as if ArenaNet is telling us, “You can work towards your goal, but if you work too hard, you won’t reap any rewards.” I feel almost as I’m being forced to play less often than I’d like to.

Everything in GW2’s endgame is for prestige, and that prestige is achieved through grind, just like in the first GW. But with DR, grind is made worse. In order to maximize my time, I’m forced to spend time finding ways to get around the anti-farm code. While I might get the whole weekend to play, the code kicks in, and makes me feel like I’m wasting time when I’m trying to work towards my goal.

I can understand the desire to not have players grinding 24/7, but the code is screwing up the game for everyone. DR should not punish someone playing in a segment of time that the average person can clock in an evening after work (2 – 3 hrs). You should never see DR no matter what you do in a chunk of time this small.

From levels 1-79, I felt as if the philosophy of the game was ‘no grind’, and I had a blast. But once I hit 80 and looked at the endgame goals, I ran into a heavy grind.

It costs 252,000 karma for a full set of exotic Karma armor, or 1,380 tokens for a dungeon set, or 1,889 badges for a WvW set, or 30 ectos+various other materials for a crafted set. Not the mention the costs of jewelry, exotic weapons, and legendary weapons.

ArenaNet put some very big goals in front of us, and then implemented code actively impeding us from reaching those goals. The only way to acquire a legendary weapon is to farm, but you’re punished if you try to farm towards it. So how am I expected to achieve my goals? My complaint isn’t “I can’t grind”, it’s “I feel penalized for trying to achieve my goals”.

I don’t mind ANet nerfing our ability to farm or speedrun, and making content harder, if and only if they reduced the costs of endgame equipment. Removing the ability to farm/grind means I have no efficient ways to obtain the currencies I need.

Penalizing farmers wouldn’t be a problem if there were other, more efficient things to do at level 80, but right now, there aren’t. The whole game isn’t endgame, even though we were told so, because the only relevant drops and mats are from the high level zones. There need to be endgame zones other than Orr/Frostgorge, so that players can get level 80 rewards outside of these 4 zones and not get hit by DR. The solution is not DR, which leads to punishing players, but more content.

Edenknight.9284:

More of this? Why do you care how I play? What if I’m having a “blast” finding out effective ways to farm for my legendary? How do you know? You don’t.

Nobody is saying that you cant. Just the way that triggers the DR, which seems to be mostly cheesing through events is not the way to do so. Agian, not talking about bugs. That seems to be the crux of the issue. You have found a way that is way too easy to be true and the games mechanics reflect that. Mechanics clamp down on you. You get angry at said mechanics. Not much of a fallacy here.

EDIT:

Edenknight.9284:

I don’t, and never will understand the controlling other people’s actions aspect that is so embedded into people’s thought process.

But the game can and will dictate progression rate by a function of time and effort put into getting there.

Who puts in more effort? Someone who does full event completions along with other zone activity and general gameplay or someone who develops a map of cheese event hopping and does that ad-infinitum? I still do not understand why hoop-jumping through general gameplay mechanics within a system should be more rewarding in an MMO when it comes to cosmetic, high-prestige items.

I am sorry but this DR really isn’t helping against bots and it’s really ruining the fun for the rest of us.. Now i understand why you may want to have something on so that people don’t just stand and do the exact same event 50 times over and get full rewards every time (i don’t agree with even doing anything about this.. but i understand why you would), but the DR is kicking in during normal gameplay, doing normal exploration, doing an event like twice, doing a very negligible amount of farming (say to get 5-6 powerful bloods for crafting something) and it’s also extremely difficult to get rid of the DR once you’re hit with it.

I don’t think this was ANet’s original intent.. if it was, i think you need to rethink your intent.. if it wasn’t, i hope you fix this soon. if you don’t want people farming, then you may need to rethink how much grinding is actually required to get some of the items in the game… if you’re going to leave the grinding needs in there, the last thing you should do it make it annoying to do.

Vircomore.4586:

Edenknight.9284:

Fozzik.1742:

Margoth

When I hit the DR for the first time I was in no way farming dynamic events. In fact I was exploring the map of Blazeridge Steppes, getting all the POI, Vistas and such. All I did was do each event once when I was nearby.

What I don’t understand with the system is how are players supposed to use DE’s to level to 80? This feels a bit like a penalty to level, let alone gain karma etc.

I’ve leveled to 80, played more than 200 hours, gotten 100% on more than half the zones in the game, along with discovering every nook and cranny, doing every event more than once, and doing all the puzzles. I even talk to most of the NPCs. I have around 10 gold, several exotics including a level 80 exotic weapon, about 60k karma, and I’ve horded a massive amount of crafting materials (overflowed my collections tab with multiple items).

Never, at any point in all of that, have I been affected at all by the DR system. Including my time in the Orr zones over the last week…repeating events and exploring. How do you explain that? What I see happening on these boards…people getting worked up like crazy over hyperbole and a few unsubstantiated anecdotes and screenshots with no context, and nobody making any attempt to provide real proof, makes me very skeptical about the whole thing.

Also, like I mentioned above, I see the DR system as being a very positive and necessary thing for the game. I don’t think it is the evil beast that people are trying to make it out to be, and I don’t think it affects players unless 1) there’s a bug, or 2) they are playing clearly outside what the developers intended.

I have 50 mystic clovers, 100% world map complete, a majority of my 250 stacks of T6 mats, my gift of energy, gift of color (minus arah tokens), my fully decked out exotic gears, and a nice set of TA dungeon gear. I haven’t hit the Karma DR whilst gathering any of that prior to the patch a few days ago. Loot DR? Sure, because you hit it in Orr if you can do anything effectively or decide to participate in chain events. The system is punishing to legitimate play, there’s nothing weird about these scenarios. Unless they seriously expect us to play with major breaks in between of a given hour.

The burden of proof lays on the person who makes the claim (Anti-DR folks) – I provided some proof with some shoddy screenshots as I just took them as a wow, look at this. However, with some approach to detail here, we can probably gather more reliable details on what causes it, why it happens, etc. Once we have that solid data, it can become a discussion of if it appropriate or not. I’m leaning towards not though, just because it is currently affecting legitimate players.

The fact that this game has only been live for five weeks, and you are already more than 50% to a legendary item proves that ArenaNet’s anti-farming system is not strict enough. Legendary weapons should be the accomplishment of a GAMETIME, not something you crank out in two months.

So once you get your legendary weapon, what do you plan on doing? Your only focus in the game has been farming, so what will you do when the farming is complete? Are you just not going to have any more fun, and quit playing?

This right here is the mindset that ANET is trying to defeat. Fun comes before farming, and if the only fun you get in MMOs is earning that new item with that different-color name – then you’re playing the wrong game.

You realize that all you are getting for all this effort and all this crying is a few more stat-points, and an item-model that will tell everyone in WvWvW to kill you first.

Meanwhile there are people like me:

• Still haven’t run every wing of each dungeon.
• 0% towards any legendary weapon.
• Only have one piece of karma exotic.

BUT…

• having a blast.

Please stop trying to make a job out of our video game, just because you don’t know anything but work.

In all actuality your point doesn’t defeat what the person is doing, rather it confirms what the person is doing.

If a person values something like a legendary, or karmic armor, or a particular item they have to heavily farm for… they do that and guess what???? the game is still there for them to explore and have fun.

Just because a person farms to gather something they feel is important does it hurt the rest of the community.

As stated there is a gear treadmill it’s just a lesser difference between the tiers.

What I am most angry about is the absolute and utter disregard the company has toward the subject.

Not a single response.

sanadin

If the karma DR exists because ArenaNet doesn’t want players running the same events for hours… well, I think that sucks, to be frank. I can run Dungeons for hours and still get 20 tokens a run, but I can’t do events and get karma? Why can’t events be like dungeons? Why not keep the minimum karma rewards for players that like to replay the content they’re exceptional at, and incentivize them to diversify their actions, just like dungeons. Even if that means reducing the karma level in Cursed Shore from 378 per run to a flat 300 but REMOVING the DR that makes the rewards almost 0, why not do it?

You can’t just have diminished returns. It’s a punishment mentality and is painfully in-congruent with their positive reinforcement style found everywhere else in the game.

For obvious reasons won’t quote the whole post.

It is not there to punish you for doing events. It is there to scale your rewards for running hoops around the system which the DE/medal system is not intended for. The game does not stop you mechanically form doing so – it does not lock you to an event and force you to stay there all the time to get rewards. But it does scale your rewards to actual contribution if you try and take advantage of this.

This is not punishment. Those are game-play mechanics.

I really do not understand what peoples problem is with other people farming. You may not have fun farming events or items to reach a goal or a reward but I do enjoy farming. I find it relaxing and fun to stick on a tv show and perform the same task over and over emptying my mind of real life and not doing a thing.

Me acquiring an item, that is as all you say is only a few stat points higher with a nice model, does not affect you in any way. So why should I have to not have fun for you to have fun? Does me farming negatively impact you and your, “I do what I want this isn’t a job” attitude? No it does not, DR on events karma, money, and loot from mobs does not have any negative impact on the casual player who is doing what they do to have fun. It does however impact those who find the act of farming fun.

Tell me I have no life, tell me I am playing the game wrong. That is your opinion and it differs from mine. My opinion is that everyone should be able to play the game they want to. DR ruins this for a set amount of players while not affecting the other. I could understand if the lack of DR hurt you in some way, but with stat point allocation being almost equal across the board it simply doesn’t.

silencer.5028:

Edenknight.9284:

More of this? Why do you care how I play? What if I’m having a “blast” finding out effective ways to farm for my legendary? How do you know? You don’t.

Nobody is saying that you cant. Just the way that triggers the DR, which seems to be mostly cheesing through events is not the way to do so. Agian, not talking about bugs. That seems to be the crux of the issue. You have found a way that is way too easy to be true and the games mechanics reflect that. Mechanics clamp down on you. You get angry at said mechanics. Not much of a fallacy here.

The fallacy is the belief that only people ’cheesing events" are getting impacted.

Do 2-3 chaining events in Orr. Most of these events include waves of Risen, usually only 2-3 different types. And we all know anyhting sort of a Champion has about a 5 second lifespan in a crowded DE. So. You tag a horde of mobs. They die in two seconds. Next wave comes, repeat. Again. Again. You’re not actively trying to farm..you’re running a DE and trying to havbe fun. But you’ve already hit the cap. And you can’t go somewhere else to level/quest/whatever, because there’s so few zones that give level 80 loot. Also, the cap appears to extend to other zones. Heck, it extends to other characters! Go ahead and switch to you level 20 Hunter out in Brisbane. He can’t get any drops/karma anymore either. Alright, so you log off for two hours, give it a rest…wait, still capped.

It’s happening in dungeons, if the dungeon lasts too long. It happens in heart quests, DEs, you name it.

I agree with you if someone’s "cheesing’ the game and trying to get tons of rewards with no real game effort, they shouldn’t get anything. Cool. But players just trying to level/100% complete in Orr shouldn’t get DR’d after 20 minutes, then find they can’t even do anything on their alts. The intent of the system is fine, its implementation is horrendsously flawed.

silencer.5028:

sanadin

If the karma DR exists because ArenaNet doesn’t want players running the same events for hours… well, I think that sucks, to be frank. I can run Dungeons for hours and still get 20 tokens a run, but I can’t do events and get karma? Why can’t events be like dungeons? Why not keep the minimum karma rewards for players that like to replay the content they’re exceptional at, and incentivize them to diversify their actions, just like dungeons. Even if that means reducing the karma level in Cursed Shore from 378 per run to a flat 300 but REMOVING the DR that makes the rewards almost 0, why not do it?

You can’t just have diminished returns. It’s a punishment mentality and is painfully in-congruent with their positive reinforcement style found everywhere else in the game.

For obvious reasons won’t quote the whole post.

It is not there to punish you for doing events. It is there to scale your rewards for running hoops around the system which the DE/medal system is not intended for. The game does not stop you mechanically form doing so – it does not lock you to an event and force you to stay there all the time to get rewards. But it does scale your rewards to actual contribution if you try and take advantage of this.

This is not punishment. Those are game-play mechanics.

You are telling me that after doing 40 minutes of events in cursed shore, going from 340ish karma for an event to 19 karma per event isn’t a punishment for doing events in the zone? Sounds like one to me.

That isn’t the medal system as you say, both those numbers are for gold contribution. That is a clear punishment for running around and doing the content they make available.

Pretty sure they can’t respond when they have no answer, even just acknowledging the issue is a big no no, cause if they did then that would trigger a deadline response, the longer they don’t respond the more time they will have to work on the issue, just saying “HEY we know its a problem and we’re working on it” isn’t enough for some players….but Im taking this time to purpose a possible solution, people tell me what you think, really this all boils down to Bots. SO here goes:

-Implement a system that allows players Level 30-40+ to report people that are supposedly botting, keep track of said players account so they can’t abuse the system.
-After receiving reports from 5-10 different player accounts the supposed bot will receive a window notification warning that says their session will be terminated if they don’t click ok or something.
-Give them maybe 5 min to respond? Then boot them to the character screen.
-If the same person is reported and booted several times prevent them from logging back in and send them a verification email with a code or something.

Reason for only high level players to report is simple, anyone the goes to level 40 wouldn’t risk a ban on their account by abusing this power….and at the same time it gives some control to the community, a sort of way that we can manage the bots ourselves. Soooo….what do people think?

Fayte.1803:

-Implement a system that allows players Level 30-40+ to report people that are supposedly botting, keep track of said players account so they can’t abuse the system.
-After receiving reports from 5-10 different player accounts the supposed bot will receive a window notification warning that says their session will be terminated if they don’t click ok or something.
-Give them maybe 5 min to respond? Then boot them to the character screen.
-If the same person is reported and booted several times prevent them from logging back in and send them a verification email with a code or something.

1) You can report people for botting now. I’ve done it more than once.
2) The whole “send a popup” idea is bad. It’s not that hard to right a script that says “If this popup appears, click on it.” The only workaround MIGHT be to add a randomized captcha into it, and those will mostly just aggravate real players.

silencer.5028:

Nobody is saying that you cant. Just the way that triggers the DR, which seems to be mostly cheesing through events is not the way to do so. Agian, not talking about bugs. That seems to be the crux of the issue. You have found a way that is way too easy to be true and the games mechanics reflect that. Mechanics clamp down on you. You get angry at said mechanics. Not much of a fallacy here.

Yes, clearly we are all not playing as intended, cheesing our way through the game finding the loopholes.. or, it’s simply not working as intended OR Anet simply wants to gate us for whatever reasons. I reserve the right to complain until I get some official word on what the deal is.

Terrant.2903:

silencer.5028:

Edenknight.9284:

More of this? Why do you care how I play? What if I’m having a “blast” finding out effective ways to farm for my legendary? How do you know? You don’t.

Nobody is saying that you cant. Just the way that triggers the DR, which seems to be mostly cheesing through events is not the way to do so. Agian, not talking about bugs. That seems to be the crux of the issue. You have found a way that is way too easy to be true and the games mechanics reflect that. Mechanics clamp down on you. You get angry at said mechanics. Not much of a fallacy here.

The fallacy is the belief that only people ’cheesing events" are getting impacted.

Do 2-3 chaining events in Orr. Most of these events include waves of Risen, usually only 2-3 different types. And we all know anyhting sort of a Champion has about a 5 second lifespan in a crowded DE. So. You tag a horde of mobs. They die in two seconds. Next wave comes, repeat. Again. Again. You’re not actively trying to farm..you’re running a DE and trying to havbe fun. But you’ve already hit the cap. And you can’t go somewhere else to level/quest/whatever, because there’s so few zones that give level 80 loot. Also, the cap appears to extend to other zones. Heck, it extends to other characters! Go ahead and switch to you level 20 Hunter out in Brisbane. He can’t get any drops/karma anymore either. Alright, so you log off for two hours, give it a rest…wait, still capped.

It’s happening in dungeons, if the dungeon lasts too long. It happens in heart quests, DEs, you name it.

I agree with you if someone’s "cheesing’ the game and trying to get tons of rewards with no real game effort, they shouldn’t get anything. Cool. But players just trying to level/100% complete in Orr shouldn’t get DR’d after 20 minutes, then find they can’t even do anything on their alts. The intent of the system is fine, its implementation is horrendsously flawed.

This. People keep assuming it works how they think would be reasonable, but it IS NOT WORKING THAT WAY AT ALL. It is definitely impacting normal gameplay and appears to be heavily bugged.

This junk has to go immediately. People that care less about the game aren’t even going to bother to post here, they’ll just quit playing. I love GW2, I find it very fun, but I refuse to have the vast majority of the time I have available to play wasted due to these broken horrible systems.

These DR systems have got to be one of the worst ideas ever implemented in a game in the history of video games.

silencer.5028:

Edenknight.9284:

More of this? Why do you care how I play? What if I’m having a “blast” finding out effective ways to farm for my legendary? How do you know? You don’t.

Nobody is saying that you cant. Just the way that triggers the DR, which seems to be mostly cheesing through events is not the way to do so. Agian, not talking about bugs. That seems to be the crux of the issue. You have found a way that is way too easy to be true and the games mechanics reflect that. Mechanics clamp down on you. You get angry at said mechanics. Not much of a fallacy here.

EDIT:

Edenknight.9284:

I don’t, and never will understand the controlling other people’s actions aspect that is so embedded into people’s thought process.

But the game can and will dictate progression rate by a function of time and effort put into getting there.

Who puts in more effort? Someone who does full event completions along with other zone activity and general gameplay or someone who develops a map of cheese event hopping and does that ad-infinitum? I still do not understand why hoop-jumping through general gameplay mechanics within a system should be more rewarding in an MMO when it comes to cosmetic, high-prestige items.

I can’t tell if you are accusing me of cheesing events or not. I’m not, let’s just get that out of the way. Let’s also hope that you are correct in that it is a bug, it’s just hard to tell when there’s zero voice/transparency on the issue. The dungeon token DR system is great, I don’t mind it at all. 60 Tokens for the first time I do a run in a day? Great, they were vocal about the issue, clearly stated the intent of dungeons and everyone is happy. Why can’t they just say what people are experiencing is a bug or intended?

Hoop-jumping is kind of a broad term. I find min/maxing rewards to be one of the most fun part in any game. It’s my prerogative and plenty of other people whom are even closer to legendaries/have them already feel the same way. It’s what we chose to do in the game, and completing those goals in a time frame is what gives us the ‘fun’ feeling that we play video games at all. Don’t get me wrong, I love ventrilo, guild chat, pvp, all of those things, It’s just -another- thing that I partake in.

Terrant

I agree with you if someone’s "cheesing’ the game and trying to get tons of rewards with no real game effort, they shouldn’t get anything. Cool. But players just trying to level/100% complete in Orr shouldn’t get DR’d after 20 minutes, then find they can’t even do anything on their alts. The intent of the system is fine, its implementation is horrendsously flawed.

No, no he shouldn’t providing he does actual completions, not bunny hopping. If this happens, it is a bug.

Never experienced that myself.

Never saw any evidence to any sort of mythical mob DR’s. Saw constant drops of crafting mats and green and higher loot. Just now got a yellow after a buttload of defense waves in SoD, 2 ectos, whee. I have yet to see any comprehensive evidence of this system actually hindering anything when it works as it should.

Keaper Ambrose

You are telling me that after doing 40 minutes of events in cursed shore, going from 340ish karma for an event to 19 karma per event isn’t a punishment for doing events in the zone? Sounds like one to me.

Again, never through my playtime through that and other areas I’ve seen karma gains drop form DE’s when I stuck with them. The only time this seems to happen, save when it apparently bugs like in the Norn area, is during obvious attempts of gaming the system by trying to chain events without contributing to them, just doing enough to get gold and moving on.

Keaper Ambrose

Tell me I have no life, tell me I am playing the game wrong. That is your opinion and it differs from mine.

Unfortunately, only one can be implemented at a time. Time will tell whose opinions anet shares. Thats life for you.

The problem is that I play the game to have fun, and having your time deliberately wasted by this system is the polar opposite of fun.

Yeah it just kinda feels like diablo 3 all over again….I know Ive said that before but I reeeeeally don’t want a repeat incident in Guild wars 2

silencer.5028:

It is there to scale your rewards for running hoops around the system which the DE/medal system is not intended for.

Since you seem to know exactly how the DE/medal system is supposed to function, please enlighten me. That’s one of the primary reasons I made this thread.

Exactly what “hoops” am I “running” around the system? My not staying to completion in 3 out of 15 events before I hit the DR? Out of those 3 events, 2 were my leaving Champion Risen Abomination 1:30 before it finished because there is no value in staying. I won’t get loot and in full Berserker’s Exotic, I’ve already contributed more damage to it than many of the individuals there. The third is me joining Packheart defense at the last second for Bronze. There’s nothing abusive, here. The game gave me the medals it thought I deserved based on time and damage.

silencer.5028:

The game does not stop you mechanically form doing so – it does not lock you to an event and force you to stay there all the time to get rewards. But it does scale your rewards to actual contribution if you try and take advantage of this.

Right, it scales our rewards based on our contribution. These are known as medals. They are functioning as intended.

silencer.5028:

This is not punishment. Those are game-play mechanics.

I disagree. If we complete too many events in an undefined period of time, irrespective of our contribution (gold, silver, bronze), we are locked into a penalty period of at least 15 and perhaps up to 30 minutes where our rewards are reduced to practically nothing.

How can you honestly call this anything but punishment? The players take an action and as a result of that action we are prevented from receiving the standard rewards. That’s punishment, or a penalty, or whatever you want to call it but it’s not merely “game-play mechanics”.

I don’t think the DR system has anything to do with bots. I don’t believe arenanet could possibly be that stupid. The DR too obviously sky rockets the demand for the gold seller’s product due to legendaries etc. seeming impossible to get because of it for that to be the main intention.

Edenknight.9284:

I can’t tell if you are accusing me of cheesing events or not. I’m not, let’s just get that out of the way. Let’s also hope that you are correct in that it is a bug, it’s just hard to tell when there’s zero voice/transparency on the issue. The dungeon token DR system is great, I don’t mind it at all. 60 Tokens for the first time I do a run in a day? Great, they were vocal about the issue, clearly stated the intent of dungeons and everyone is happy. Why can’t they just say what people are experiencing is a bug or intended?

I am not accusing anyone of anything. Accusing sounds like its something thats punishable. I am just saying what seems to be the intention of the system, as I deduced by other instances when it kicks in.

Edenknight.9284:

Hoop-jumping is kind of a broad term.

Oh please. Thats just an excuse given by people who don’t want to admit they do it. I’ve yet to see a person who would be ignorant enough to realize something is giving way, way more reward then actual effort put in.

Edenknight.9284:

I find min/maxing rewards to be one of the most fun part in any game. It’s my prerogative and plenty of other people whom are even closer to legendaries/have them already feel the same way. It’s what we chose to do in the game, and completing those goals in a time frame is what gives us the ‘fun’ feeling that we play video games at all. Don’t get me wrong, I love ventrilo, guild chat, pvp, all of those things, It’s just -another- thing that I partake in.

And it is your prerogative to do so, as long as you actually put in effort thats appropriate for the reward you are getting. Finidng a low level grind spot that lets you blaze through multiple events in minutes for 240 karma or more when boosted is not that. Tagging/bunnyhopping events is not that.

Finding an area where you can do an event, finish it, move on for a next one nearby, finish it, move on, etc. and you experience next to no “downtime” event wise on the other hand is just that. But that means moving across the entire map, not picking a “chain sweetspot” and bouncing between two spots. And it is what I have been doing on both Straits of Devastation and Cursed Shore (ML to a lesser extend due to the way the events are spread there). Never had any DR issues.

You can still min/max rewards. You just need to take the DR into consideration and be aware that circling the same stuff will give diminished results over time. In any other circumstance, yes, its probably a bug.

Didn’t they state before that the DR was to diminish bot farmers but normal players were being accidentally effected in the process?

silencer.5028:

You can still min/max rewards. You just need to take the DR into consideration and be aware that circling the same stuff will give diminished results over time. In any other circumstance, yes, its probably a bug.

You have mentioned numerous times that everyone getting affected by this must not be staying till the end of an event and contributing to the whole thing, and that by some means they must be gaming the system.

You can pop a karma booster, and chain events in one zone for 40 minutes, before the booster runs out and hit DR. Somehow you haven’t been affected by this. Well good on ya, as it seems a large amount of people have. When there is one person saying one thing and a large group saying the other, clearly it is a problem.

This DR then transfers to alts, and it hard to shake, again a problem. I am glad you have never hit it, plenty of others have.