Guild Wars 2

I know … some of you are tired of this topic while others are tired of nothing being done about it. But when will Anet fix the math they so horribly messed up? Get beyond afk farmers this, afk farmers that. Those are all just symptoms of what is wrong.

Back when HoT dropped, Anet adjusted the leather usage:

1. “To sync armor crafting with weapon crafting, and to help maintain the value of leather, masterwork, rare, and exotic inscriptions will now be crafted with patches made from leather and cloth.
To account for the added leather cost, the amount of cloth required to make an insignia is reduced.”
2. “Some minor tweaks have been made to salvage tables to normalize output across all levels, and a small reduction has been made on tier 5 metal, leather, and wood, as well as a reduction on tier 6 leather and cloth.”
3. “Refining thick leather now results in 4 thick leather sections instead of 3.”
4. “Refining hardened leather now results in 3 hardened leather sections instead of 2.”

Meanwhile, the price of leather skyrocketed. Yes, something did need to be done about leather. It was underused and had no value, essentially. But, someone forgot to “carry the 1” when they did the math and brought these new changes. As we, the community, complained, Anet responded with (and I can’t find the link with the posting atm) ‘we want the hoarders to sell’. Well, guess what … hoarders are hoarders for a reason. Hoarders are hoarders, sellers are sellers. While not mutually exclusive, they are two different groups of people. Besides, why push the hoarders to sell when they didn’t actually create the problem. This problem doesn’t exist with other mats that are being hoarded. Just leather.

New players cannot afford to craft exotic level 80 gear. It wasn’t that long ago that a new, or newish level 80 player could craft their own exotics not long after leveling. It is so expensive now to craft simple, exotic level 80 gear, it is discouraging for new players. I am not even touching on the cost of leveling leathercrafting … yeah, right. Again, it is discouraging for a newer player, or anyone who has not yet leveled their leatherworking.

Ok, do events, farm for the mats, you say. Well, yes. That is, of course, one way we get mats. Although, the Dragon Stand I just completed (with full participation) netting me with a whooping 0 harden leather squares doesn’t exactly encourage me. But hey, I can always go through the added expensive and convert my T5 leather to T6 (when I get enough of it). Meanwhile, worthless Mithril and Silk overflow my personal bank. My point is, there are ways of getting T6 mats, this I know, but the drop rate is horrible while the requirements for it are at the opposite end of the spectrum. There is no balance. It’s not even close. Playing this game should not be focused primarily around farming a mat. If so, change the name to Farm Wars lol.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, quaggen or whatever … please readjust the original ‘tweaks’ made with the HoT update. We forgive you, if you fix this. One piece of T6 leather selling for 1g18s yesterday! When a plank of ancient wood was 18s … that’s … that’s … unforgivable.

Note: The prices jumped when the AB meta was closed down and the Lake Doric engi farm (where not everyone was afk, you just assumed they were) was effectively shut down. Coincidence or causality … you decide.

Do Silverwastes for an hour, get 35g, buy leather.

There are ways to farm gold to buy leather, even Lake Doric gives you 15-20g/h worth of leather if you have a decent comm and know how to evade DR.

The crisis, isn’t even a crisis.

An hour of Silverwastes doesn’t give 35 gold. And that’s not enough to do a kitten thing with leather, anyway.

If the economist wasn’t stupid, he’d see that equalizing refinement and crafting between leather and cloth would equalize the values, since Leather and Cloth are acquired via the same means. Sure, there are a bit of value discrepency through demand between classes, and a few excess material sinks in the form of minor crafting projects like Mawdry, but it would quickly balance out, and provide a decent sink alone for any excess.

DakotaCoty.5721:

Do Silverwastes for an hour, get 35g, buy leather.

There are ways to farm gold to buy leather, even Lake Doric gives you 15-20g/h worth of leather if you have a decent comm and know how to evade DR.

The crisis, isn’t even a crisis.

I am assuming that you are assuming everyone sells their mats, etc from SW, to get said 35g? If so, don’t assume. I, like many others, keep all their mats and use them (or stores them for future use). Many people depend on mat drops and not purchasing from others. You are missing the entire point. Leather is way out of whack price-wise with the rest of T6 materials and this is primarily because of the adjustments made in the HoT update nearly 2 years ago.

DakotaCoty.5721:

Do Silverwastes for an hour, get 35g, buy leather.

There are ways to farm gold to buy leather, even Lake Doric gives you 15-20g/h worth of leather if you have a decent comm and know how to evade DR.

The crisis, isn’t even a crisis.

This is a band-aid to a severed limb. You’re simply finding an alternative instead of encouraging a correction to a problem that is plaguing anyone attempting to do ANYTHING in regards to leather. Please come back to the table later with something more productive than “farm more gold”. It literally does nothing but contribute to the problem at hand, which is still “pay for the leather or you’re SOL unless you spend hours upon hours upon hours grinding a map to get what is still a reduced chance on leather drops.”

edit
I don’t want to hear a word about farming Doric, many MANY legit engineers were there farming centaurs for leather due to the leather crisis. Arenanet put a stop to it because “afk” farming. Even though most people I encountered were there and talking. Granted I won’t say there weren’t bots there, because there are always bots somewhere in the game. However you did have to actively lay down turrets to gain said loot. Therefore you could not “afk farm” squat. Nothing stops engineers from actively gathering in locations and plopping down a bunch of turrets to do the same thing we did in Lake Doric. You can do the same thing in WvW as a keep/tower defense, you could do it in Lions Arch for kittens and giggles. The engineer farm in Doric was a DIRECT result of the leather crisis you say does not exist.

Dont waste your breath. Some things they fix sure but when Anet get this idea in their head that everything is fine despite pretty much the entire community agreeing it isnt fine, it aint ever going to be fixed. We’ve had this discussion sooooo many times in the WvW forums.

#FixTheGodkitten ACDamageAlready

DakotaCoty.5721:

Do Silverwastes for an hour, get 35g, buy leather.

There are ways to farm gold to buy leather, even Lake Doric gives you 15-20g/h worth of leather if you have a decent comm and know how to evade DR.

The crisis, isn’t even a crisis.

That’s what people are doing. The problem is, that is a symptom itself, not a solution. People buy leather because it’s easier to farm gold than leather. So what happens when more people do the same? Leather gets more scarce and costly.

I suppose it will reach a critical point, where leather becomes so costly to buy, it’ll be more lucrative to farm (likely when 1 square breaks 3 gold) but the only way to remedy this is to adjust drops or usage.

Dawdler.8521:

Dont waste your breath. Some things they fix sure but when Anet get this idea in their head that everything is fine despite pretty much the entire community agreeing it isnt fine, it aint ever going to be fixed. We’ve had this discussion sooooo many times in the WvW forums.

#FixTheGodkitten ACDamageAlready

This is why I’m in agreement with OP, this should be brought up again. I can’t imagine being a new player and wanting to craft my first level 80 exotic gear for a ranger, thief or engi. Then seeing the cost of the mats for it? Then saying “forget it, I’ll see what they are on the trading pos—-” jaw drop Then to see that for heavy armors the T5-T6 mats req’d are waaaaaaay cheaper in comparison, that’s to say nothing of how dirt cheap light armor is in comparison to either of them. That would be a huuuuuuuge turn off if I were a new player. It still is a turn off. Personally, I’ve got 2 characters I’d love to craft some med vipers gear for, but.. y’know… leather prices ’n such…

Something has to be done, the demand for it is good, but the supply is waaaaaaay too low. Either increase the drops or decrease the required amount needed for crafting conversions. Anet doesn’t need to undo what they did, just tweak it to balance it out.

They just need to put Cloth and Leather nodes around in PvE maps, like how they have them in WvW. Just not in Guild Halls or Home instances.

Turblumber.3125:

Something has to be done, the demand for it is good, but the supply is waaaaaaay too low. Either increase the drops or decrease the required amount needed for crafting conversions. Anet doesn’t need to undo what they did, just tweak it to balance it out.

Agreed. The original idea of reworking the leather was good. The formula didn’t quite work out. It needs more tweaking. Simply returning the refining to what it was would most likely balance things better than what it was and is, for instance. Adding the crafting patch to nearly every leather/tailor recipe is a lot of leather there. Then increasing the number of squares needed to convert into one piece. Ouch. But wait, there’s more …. let’s also reduce the drops. Too much deficit. Many people didn’t feel it at first, they had plenty of supply. But now nearly 2 years into this and they are feeling it and it shows.

Vegeta.2563:

They just need to put Cloth and Leather nodes around in PvE maps, like how they have them in WvW. Just not in Guild Halls or Home instances.

Wouldnt help at all, lol. Despite them being introduced just for this purpose WvW synthesizers have near zero chance to drop T6 and on top of that near zero chance for a second try, you only get one mat. Hell getting T5 is incredibly rare. T1-2 is probably 90% of the loot table.

Since I started playing this game in February, the leather prices are normal for me. I don’t remember how it was before because I simply wasn’t here. It’s not a topic I would start complaining about, and this will most likely be the case for most players who started after the changes to recipes were made. This means, the more time goes by and ArenaNet doesn’t change anything, the more people will consider this the normal situation. And to be honest, those who remember the old prices will sound like old people who will always remind you how cheap stuff was when they were young, forgetting that prices and incomes have risen in the last 30 years.

Would I like to have cheaper stuff? Sure I do, I always vote for cheaper stuff ^^

The reality though is that I was able to gear up three characters with ascended stuff in those 4½ months of playing the game. 2 x light and 1 x medium armor. One Zojja’s medium armor set is about 510 gold. In comparison, people get Nevermore that costs more than 2600 gold. I know that there are people who wear exotic armor but carry a legendary weapon.

There is a lot of wealth in the accounts, I think it’s just that people make different choices. They buy dyes, skins, commander tags for 300 gold, they craft ascended back packs etc. And no, I didn’t do dumb farming, like spending hours after hours with the Molten family, or Silverwastes treasure hunt or Lake Doric pony farm. I tried those to see if I can stand it, turned out I don’t want to spend my time doing that. I can do Molten Bosses 40 for an hour, then I need a break of several days from them.. I do T4 daily fractals though, they are fun, challenging and my main source of income.

I’m not rich and I don’t buy gold with gems, getting gold to craft ascended is no miracle in this game. As far as I know, the good old times when leather was cheap were also the times when people were happy about looting 10 silver from a mob. I can see the old rewards sometimes, for example with coin bags in Dungeons. I have to smile imagining that this was reallly good money for people years ago.

I don’t find it unreasonable to pay 510 gold to craft a full medium ascended armor set. It’s not like you are doing it within 2 or 3 days anyway as new player. I think I did one piece every week, for the first set. 10 gold per day, that’s it, if you don’t get materials from farming at all and buy everything from the TP. Maxing the craft from 0 to 500 might have cost 30 gold because I got so much of the lower tier meterials from levelling my character to 80 and just playing the game.

That is my current stance towards leather prices, after reflecting on my own experience as a player with light/medium armor classes and playing since February.

DakotaCoty.5721:

Do Silverwastes for an hour, get 35g, buy leather.

And thus make the leader even more costly? Yeah, great solution.

Faaris.8013:

This means, the more time goes by and ArenaNet doesn’t change anything, the more people will consider this the normal situation.

And the more people will think that it being so bad is not an exception, but “business as usual” in gw2. And that crafting was designed to be pointless from the very beginning.
And then they will judge the whole game negatively based on it.

Faaris.8013:

As far as I know, the good old times when leather was cheap were also the times when people were happy about looting 10 silver from a mob.

Nah, you could casually earn quite an amount of gold, easily comparable to what you can get today. It just came from different sources than today.

Faaris.8013:

And to be honest, those who remember the old prices will sound like old people who will always remind you how cheap stuff was when they were young, forgetting that prices and incomes have risen in the last 30 years.

Would I like to have cheaper stuff? Sure I do, I always vote for cheaper stuff ^^

I appreciate your point of view, however I am saddened by your ignorance of the situation. This is not about old ways vs modern ways. This is about an economy which is currently broken regarding leather. If you suddenly woke up one day and gas was $10/gal, you would of course think that was normal. Those of us who have been awake longer than you could tell you that price was not normal and why. That is the situation with the leather.

Faaris.8013:

There is a lot of wealth in the accounts, I think it’s just that people make different choices.

This comment is another worn out statement used to deflect from the true issue and goes right back to … “grind gold to buy it”. No. Just no.

That being said, congratulations on your ascended gear and welcome to GW2. I hope you enjoy the game as much as many of us do. It is, truly, a wonderful game. If it were not, I wouldn’t give a kitten about leather prices.

I must say, I generally don’t buy any leather or other material from the TP and I feel like I still get a certain amount of leather from playing. But only if I’m playing certain content.

I am fairly maxed out on characters and I don’t think I need to craft any ascended armor at all. Most of the pieces come from doing tier 4 fractals or raid rewards. Even ascended weapons I don’t really craft from scratch. It all seems alot more grind for gold effort, and I rather play skillfully and get my gear that way. I did make some stuff of course, and it seems to suffice even though my amount of leather is about 25% of metal wood and cloth.

In fact, I would rather have that the basic materials are a bit more balanced towards their needs. Just so that my overflowing elder wood, mithril and silk don’t get bottlenecked by the leather.

Patches should be crafted with Leather OR Cloth.

This would allow them to reach equilibrium with each other (i.e. Leather prices would decline a bit and Cloth prices would rise a bit until they are about equal, excluding any additional demand differences).

Having patches require both materials simply exacerbated the demand issue that the reduced supply of leather caused while depressing the cloth market (since the bottleneck on crafting is the leather supply).

LadyHawk.5319:

If you suddenly woke up one day and gas was $10/gal, you would of course think that was normal. Those of us who have been awake longer than you could tell you that price was not normal and why. That is the situation with the leather.

It’s about how we are anchored to a price. I already pay about $6/gal for gas, so yeah, $10 wouldn’t really shock me. I would probably enjoy the roads more than I do now because traffic is horrible. It would mean that I could drive to work instead of using the expensive public transport, because I could park my car in the city.

I won’t really compare this to paying for ascended armor though. I only had to pay the price for the armor once. It will last forever, I don’t have to pay gold to maintain it. the 510 gold were a one time fee. If they increased the fees for using waypoints though, that would really hurt everybody at all levels and times. Armor is not a consumable good, it should be expensive, even houses are not forever, that armor is.

mtpelion.4562:

Having patches require both materials simply exacerbated the demand issue that the reduced supply of leather caused while depressing the cloth market (since the bottleneck on crafting is the leather supply).

While the value of silk and gossamer is pathetic.

faaris.8013:

I won’t really compare this to paying for ascended armor though. I only had to pay the price for the armor once. It will last forever, I don’t have to pay gold to maintain it. the 510 gold were a one time fee. If they increased the fees for using waypoints though, that would really hurt everybody at all levels and times. Armor is not a consumable good, it should be expensive, even houses are not forever, that armor is.

As GW2s is a Living World, that means builds are forever changing. With that, your armor will change if you want to play to the best of your ability or, perhaps, if you want to try another playstyle. Additionally, you are still missing the point. People should not have to depend on the botters or the extreme hardcore farmers to acquire one category of material. If some want to just buy it, great. That option is there for them. But “grind it to buy it” for a crafting mat?! That is not acceptable. Unfortunately, too many people are just accepting it. Therefore, it will go unchanged. That is what is being accepted as ‘status quo’ when people say/infer “just buy it”. I appreciate that newer players who were not playing 2 years ago have not the opportunity to compare now and then, regarding the leather economy, but do not dismiss those who came before you.

T6 mat comparison cost (as of 1 min ago):

• Gossamer Bolt … 1s 23c
• Orichalcum Ingot … 4s 60c
• Ancient Wood Plank … 19s 37c
• Cured Hardened Leather … 1g 9s 98c
• Gossamer Patch … 2g 45s 93c (each patch contains (2) T6 Leather basically and is needed to craft EXOTIC insignias)

Now, let’s compare the ratios of T5 mats:

• Silk Bolt … 1s 49c
• Mithril Ingot … 1s 18c
• Elder Wood Plank … 6s 85c
• Cured Thick Leather … 9s 69c

So, when you look at the overall balance of each tier … hmm … one of these things is not like the other.

Sartharina.3542:

An hour of Silverwastes doesn’t give 35 gold. And that’s not enough to do a kitten thing with leather, anyway.

If the economist wasn’t stupid, he’d see that equalizing refinement and crafting between leather and cloth would equalize the values, since Leather and Cloth are acquired via the same means. Sure, there are a bit of value discrepency through demand between classes, and a few excess material sinks in the form of minor crafting projects like Mawdry, but it would quickly balance out, and provide a decent sink alone for any excess.

This is simply untrue.

If you do Silverwastes with 100% efficiency for an hour, you can make 40g, 25-35g are the averages of silverwastes depending on the commander.

If you decide to sell everything you lose more because of taxes, but it’s pointless to keep the T3-T4 mats because you can’t use them for anything.

DakotaCoty.5721:

If you decide to sell everything you lose more because of taxes, but it’s pointless to keep the T3-T4 mats because you can’t use them for anything.

T3, T4 mats are needed in crafting ascended components, i.e., Damask, Elonian Leather, Spiritwood, Deldrimoor Steel. If you don’t want these components, you can sell them.

DakotaCoty.5721:

Sartharina.3542:

An hour of Silverwastes doesn’t give 35 gold. And that’s not enough to do a kitten thing with leather, anyway.

If the economist wasn’t stupid, he’d see that equalizing refinement and crafting between leather and cloth would equalize the values, since Leather and Cloth are acquired via the same means. Sure, there are a bit of value discrepency through demand between classes, and a few excess material sinks in the form of minor crafting projects like Mawdry, but it would quickly balance out, and provide a decent sink alone for any excess.

This is simply untrue.

If you do Silverwastes with 100% efficiency for an hour, you can make 40g, 25-35g are the averages of silverwastes depending on the commander.

If you decide to sell everything you lose more because of taxes, but it’s pointless to keep the T3-T4 mats because you can’t use them for anything.

Are you factoring in the time it takes to earn crests to buy the keys?

Ayrilana.1396:

DakotaCoty.5721:

Sartharina.3542:

An hour of Silverwastes doesn’t give 35 gold. And that’s not enough to do a kitten thing with leather, anyway.

If the economist wasn’t stupid, he’d see that equalizing refinement and crafting between leather and cloth would equalize the values, since Leather and Cloth are acquired via the same means. Sure, there are a bit of value discrepency through demand between classes, and a few excess material sinks in the form of minor crafting projects like Mawdry, but it would quickly balance out, and provide a decent sink alone for any excess.

This is simply untrue.

If you do Silverwastes with 100% efficiency for an hour, you can make 40g, 25-35g are the averages of silverwastes depending on the commander.

If you decide to sell everything you lose more because of taxes, but it’s pointless to keep the T3-T4 mats because you can’t use them for anything.

Are you factoring in the time it takes to earn crests to buy the keys?

You get crests as you’re doing RIBA, no time needed to factor in. You earn way more crests than you can use keys.

LadyHawk.5319:

DakotaCoty.5721:

If you decide to sell everything you lose more because of taxes, but it’s pointless to keep the T3-T4 mats because you can’t use them for anything.

T3, T4 mats are needed in crafting ascended components, i.e., Damask, Elonian Leather, Spiritwood, Deldrimoor Steel. If you don’t want these components, you can sell them.

Which is exactly what I do…

LadyHawk.5319:

mtpelion.4562:

Having patches require both materials simply exacerbated the demand issue that the reduced supply of leather caused while depressing the cloth market (since the bottleneck on crafting is the leather supply).

While the value of silk and gossamer is pathetic.

faaris.8013:

I won’t really compare this to paying for ascended armor though. I only had to pay the price for the armor once. It will last forever, I don’t have to pay gold to maintain it. the 510 gold were a one time fee. If they increased the fees for using waypoints though, that would really hurt everybody at all levels and times. Armor is not a consumable good, it should be expensive, even houses are not forever, that armor is.

As GW2s is a Living World, that means builds are forever changing. With that, your armor will change if you want to play to the best of your ability or, perhaps, if you want to try another playstyle. Additionally, you are still missing the point. People should not have to depend on the botters or the extreme hardcore farmers to acquire one category of material. If some want to just buy it, great. That option is there for them. But “grind it to buy it” for a crafting mat?! That is not acceptable. Unfortunately, too many people are just accepting it. Therefore, it will go unchanged. That is what is being accepted as ‘status quo’ when people say/infer “just buy it”. I appreciate that newer players who were not playing 2 years ago have not the opportunity to compare now and then, regarding the leather economy, but do not dismiss those who came before you.

T6 mat comparison cost (as of 1 min ago):

• Gossamer Bolt … 1s 23c
• Orichalcum Ingot … 4s 60c
• Ancient Wood Plank … 19s 37c
• Cured Hardened Leather … 1g 9s 98c
• Gossamer Patch … 2g 45s 93c (each patch contains (2) T6 Leather basically and is needed to craft EXOTIC insignias)

Now, let’s compare the ratios of T5 mats:

• Silk Bolt … 1s 49c
• Mithril Ingot … 1s 18c
• Elder Wood Plank … 6s 85c
• Cured Thick Leather … 9s 69c

So, when you look at the overall balance of each tier … hmm … one of these things is not like the other.

And cloth is being depressed by the high cost of leather – You can’t spend cloth without also spending even MORE leather. Cloth should be more expensive than it currently is, but leather’s keeping its price down.

I’ve seen it argued that “Leather is high to make Exotic Equipment expensive!”. For Non-HoT stats, the very presence of the ‘named’ gear worth less than 3 gold completely eliminates that argument (And just makes crafting unrewarding). For HoT stats – that’s what the linseed oil is for.

DakotaCoty.5721:

Ayrilana.1396:

DakotaCoty.5721:

Sartharina.3542:

An hour of Silverwastes doesn’t give 35 gold. And that’s not enough to do a kitten thing with leather, anyway.

If the economist wasn’t stupid, he’d see that equalizing refinement and crafting between leather and cloth would equalize the values, since Leather and Cloth are acquired via the same means. Sure, there are a bit of value discrepency through demand between classes, and a few excess material sinks in the form of minor crafting projects like Mawdry, but it would quickly balance out, and provide a decent sink alone for any excess.

This is simply untrue.

If you do Silverwastes with 100% efficiency for an hour, you can make 40g, 25-35g are the averages of silverwastes depending on the commander.

If you decide to sell everything you lose more because of taxes, but it’s pointless to keep the T3-T4 mats because you can’t use them for anything.

Are you factoring in the time it takes to earn crests to buy the keys?

You get crests as you’re doing RIBA, no time needed to factor in. You earn way more crests than you can use keys.

LadyHawk.5319:

DakotaCoty.5721:

If you decide to sell everything you lose more because of taxes, but it’s pointless to keep the T3-T4 mats because you can’t use them for anything.

T3, T4 mats are needed in crafting ascended components, i.e., Damask, Elonian Leather, Spiritwood, Deldrimoor Steel. If you don’t want these components, you can sell them.

Which is exactly what I do…

I’ve done RIBA as well as farmed years ago. Based on the prices then, and what they are now, there is no way that you’re earning up to 40G/hr.

Dawdler.8521:

Dont waste your breath. Some things they fix sure but when Anet get this idea in their head that everything is fine despite pretty much the entire community agreeing it isnt fine, it aint ever going to be fixed. We’ve had this discussion sooooo many times in the WvW forums.

#FixTheGodkitten ACDamageAlready

Fine is a relative term. I wonder what John Smith consider is “fine.”

For one, I remember a thread where John Smith was saying low level players should sell everything. (I cannot find the thread. Unusual of me of making a claim without links). Every other forum member bashed at that idea because John inveterately locked out that low level player from crafting

I wonder if Anet will ever release what they define as fine.

Again … the solutions being put forth are bandaids. Grind to buy. No, just no. While it is good to know how to make money, as we all need it in the game, I do not truly believe it is Anet’s intention for the primary focus of the game to be ‘grind X content over and over again in order to be able to afford to purchase a material since the drop rate is pathetic’. Truly, I don’t. They put too much work and effort to give us a beautiful game that goes beyond farming SW, farming lvl 40 Fractal over and over again, etc.

As far as RIBA goes, LOL. I used to play a lot in SW, well over 300k worth of crests. But the last time I did and a well-known SW guild was doing RIBA what I saw was this: A few players not in the raid group who didn’t know what was going on barely kept the keeps from being lost while everyone else followed the commander, tagged mobs and got credit for all the keeps whilst doing next to nothing for the wins. When I questioned in raid chat if that is what was happening, I was unanimously told yes. That was the last time I did RIBA. My heart was broken. I loved SW. Talk about an exploit. The players in the raid group were exploiting the other people. No thanks.

I get that they wanted it to have a use, but it really makes no sense.

“Oh, let me craft up this piece of LIGHT (cloth) armor”.
“Hmm, it only takes 4 T6 cloth but 10 T6 leather”.
“WTF!”

I think that sums up a small part of this huge problem.

LadyHawk.5319:

The players in the raid group were exploiting the other people. No thanks.

That’s all SW ever really was. A raid playing Nascar while exploiting the people that kept the keeps alive.

LadyHawk.5319:

Again … the solutions being put forth are bandaids. Grind to buy. No, just no. While it is good to know how to make money, as we all need it in the game, I do not truly believe it is Anet’s intention for the primary focus of the game to be ‘grind X content over and over again in order to be able to afford to purchase a material since the drop rate is pathetic’. Truly, I don’t. They put too much work and effort to give us a beautiful game that goes beyond farming SW, farming lvl 40 Fractal over and over again, etc.

As far as RIBA goes, LOL. I used to play a lot in SW, well over 300k worth of crests. But the last time I did and a well-known SW guild was doing RIBA what I saw was this: A few players not in the raid group who didn’t know what was going on barely kept the keeps from being lost while everyone else followed the commander, tagged mobs and got credit for all the keeps whilst doing next to nothing for the wins. When I questioned in raid chat if that is what was happening, I was unanimously told yes. That was the last time I did RIBA. My heart was broken. I loved SW. Talk about an exploit. The players in the raid group were exploiting the other people. No thanks.

The squad should be spread out and not all grouped on the commander when doing the rotation. If people are properly spread out, there’s always someone at the keeps and almost always someone to help defend part of the supply escorts.

Ubi.4136:

That’s all SW ever really was. A raid playing Nascar while exploiting the people that kept the keeps alive.

No, you are mistaken. SW used to be about map-wide teamwork and cooperation. People helped each other, people worked together. The pride and joy I used to see in chat when struggles became successes …. it was awesome!

mtpelion.4562:

Patches should be crafted with Leather OR Cloth.

This would allow them to reach equilibrium with each other (i.e. Leather prices would decline a bit and Cloth prices would rise a bit until they are about equal, excluding any additional demand differences).

Having patches require both materials simply exacerbated the demand issue that the reduced supply of leather caused while depressing the cloth market (since the bottleneck on crafting is the leather supply).

This is probably the simplest and most elegant solution. They should make each recipe for one patch, not 5.

perilisk.1874:

mtpelion.4562:

Patches should be crafted with Leather OR Cloth.

This would allow them to reach equilibrium with each other (i.e. Leather prices would decline a bit and Cloth prices would rise a bit until they are about equal, excluding any additional demand differences).

Having patches require both materials simply exacerbated the demand issue that the reduced supply of leather caused while depressing the cloth market (since the bottleneck on crafting is the leather supply).

This is probably the simplest and most elegant solution. They should make each recipe for one patch, not 5.

Good suggestions! Not a lot is needed to bring leather back into balance. We are not asking for all the changes to be undone, as leather did, in fact, need to be incorporated more into crafting. However, one or two small tweaks should bring leather back to where it should be in relation to the rest of the crafting mats.

Don’t forget the 5130 Hardened Leather Sections required for Guild Hall upgrades. And that is independent of the T6 leather required to make the other items and insignias that GH upgrades require.

I’m used to getting leather from skinning creatures and cloth from killing humanoids in other games. Is there a particular reason for this not being available in GW2?

Nikal.4921:

I’m used to getting leather from skinning creatures and cloth from killing humanoids in other games. Is there a particular reason for this not being available in GW2?

^ Yes, yes there is. Anet don’t want us to know but I’m not afraid! I’m going to spill the beans! The secret is that th—- aaaargh!

I’d say before even adding nodes to the world.

Revert some of the recipe changes, reduce/change other (like Legendary insignia[gossamar/gold ingot/silver ingot could be used here to give it a market too])

Make those changes and see if the source acquisition methods need to be changed. If so try organically fixing it by increasing the chance to yield and yield amount from salvaging first then if all else fails add nodes as a last resort.

TexZero.7910:

I’d say before even adding nodes to the world.

Revert some of the recipe changes, reduce/change other (like Legendary insignia[gossamar/gold ingot/silver ingot could be used here to give it a market too])

Make those changes and see if the source acquisition methods need to be changed. If so try organically fixing it by increasing the chance to yield and yield amount from salvaging first then if all else fails add nodes as a last resort.

Im still stacking up silver and gold for when we get electrium mate so dont go and put that into another recipe

TexZero.7910:

I’d say before even adding nodes to the world.

Revert some of the recipe changes, reduce/change other (like Legendary insignia[gossamar/gold ingot/silver ingot could be used here to give it a market too])

Make those changes and see if the source acquisition methods need to be changed. If so try organically fixing it by increasing the chance to yield and yield amount from salvaging first then if all else fails add nodes as a last resort.

Agreed. It would only take a few tweaks, e.g., put the conversion back to 2 per instead of 3 per (for T6, e.g.) and slightly increase the drops. That would probably be enough to get things in shape with the rest of the materials.

Nikal.4921:

I’m used to getting leather from skinning creatures and cloth from killing humanoids in other games. Is there a particular reason for this not being available in GW2?

Well, skinning is useless, but I don’t see why they don’t have animals (Neutral and hostile, not ambients) drop leather sections more frequently. Humanoids do drop cloth, though, in the form of loot bags.

I think that they should just normalize refinement for all four crafting disciplines, and have patches require equal amounts of leather and cloth (And dowels should have equal metal and wood). From there, balancing the economy is simple. The problem that caused the overboard leather disaster was simply that armor didn’t require leather, the way weapons required both wood and metal.

Significantly increased the chance that Bloodstone-Warped Hides may be salvaged into Hardened Leather.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-11-2017/first#post6642652

Oh this is awesome!! This means:

1. More zergs in Lake Doric
2. Lower hardened leather price
3. A potentially outprofitting farm over SW

Im gonna farm ASAP

Yes!! Hopefully they will not decrease the drops in the future. A guildie just salvaged 75 Bloodstone Warped Hides and got 43 hardened leather sections! In a zerg, it took little time to acquire the 75 hides.

Prices are falling fast.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19732-hardened-leather-section

Ayrilana.1396:

Prices are falling fast.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19732-hardened-leather-section

Sell that hoarded overstock while you can, flippers!

It’s a nice short-term shock, but does anyone have initial data on the estimated new drop rate?

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Prices are falling fast.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19732-hardened-leather-section

Sell that hoarded overstock while you can, flippers!

It’s a nice short-term shock, but does anyone have initial data on the estimated new drop rate?

People claiming 50%.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Prices are falling fast.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19732-hardened-leather-section

Sell that hoarded overstock while you can, flippers!

It’s a nice short-term shock, but does anyone have initial data on the estimated new drop rate?

People claiming 50%.

Probably too soon to hope for the “salvaged 200 hides” posts yet. But if 50% holds, that’s a huge change over the ~8% from before. I might even go join the farm next time I need leather.

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Prices are falling fast.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19732-hardened-leather-section

Sell that hoarded overstock while you can, flippers!

It’s a nice short-term shock, but does anyone have initial data on the estimated new drop rate?

People claiming 50%.

Probably too soon to hope for the “salvaged 200 hides” posts yet. But if 50% holds, that’s a huge change over the ~8% from before. I might even go join the farm next time I need leather.

Not too soon lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6mokz8/the_new_lake_doric_leather_farm_results_using_a/

I just salvaged 425 hides and got 223 hardened leather sections (and 219 T5 sections). Plus about 42 sections from salvaging the random drops.

Jump on your favorite farming character, put on some farming music and enjoy the loot! This may be the simple tweak we’ve been asking for, folks!

Dawdler.8521:

Vegeta.2563:

They just need to put Cloth and Leather nodes around in PvE maps, like how they have them in WvW. Just not in Guild Halls or Home instances.

Wouldnt help at all, lol. Despite them being introduced just for this purpose WvW synthesizers have near zero chance to drop T6 and on top of that near zero chance for a second try, you only get one mat. Hell getting T5 is incredibly rare. T1-2 is probably 90% of the loot table.

From what I’ve seen T3 is the most rare from those nodes. I play out in WvW for 8-10 hours.. and hardly have any Rugged leather

LadyHawk.5319:

Jump on your favorite farming character, put on some farming music and enjoy the loot! This may be the simple tweak we’ve been asking for, folks!

Actually, no, we never asked for this. It would be better if they fixed h.leather salvage rates from salvaging random drops, not bloodstone hides. Or downed leather in patches from 10 to 5.
All other T6 mats for crafting can be gained by just playing the game. But now with h.leather we have to farm in specifically. To make the matter worse, the farm is locked behind a paywall of LS3 Ep4 (considered by a lot of players the worst map of a game and usually not worth buying).
So, again, trying to cure a symptom, not a problem.

Rauderi.8706:

Sell that hoarded overstock while you can, flippers!

It’s a nice short-term shock, but does anyone have initial data on the estimated new drop rate?

Not a flipper here, but that’s what I did after running through the pony farm for 15 minutes yesterday. Got about 26 hardened leather at a rate of about 50% (too small of a sample, I know) and decided that if I don’t sell my stash now, I’ll lose money. Poor people who set up buying orders for 30 silver and didn’t log in after the patch. When I logged in this morning, hardened leather sold for 20 silver. A price drop of 33% after only 10 hours.

Doing the farm again was a lot of fun, but there were so many people, one half could have switched to another instance. Even with high mobility, it was difficult to land hits. My guess is that the drop rate will be higher when the zerg size will be reasonable. Often, I couldn’t tag a pony, and still got those 26 leather pieces in 15 minutes.

I probably won’t farm there though. I rarely need hardened leather, and soon it will be so cheap that I’ll rather buy it. That farm requires constant attention, you can’t even park somewhere and get a drink from the fridge. It becomes stressful quickly.

Now, I wonder how it works with hoarded Bloodstone Hides. There are people who hoarded hundreds or thousands of those hides because they were too lazy to open that many manually, and don’t really need the stuff. Which drop rate will it be when they open them now? The old 8% or the new 50%? Is the content of bags calculated when you loot them, or when you open them?