Guild Wars 2

this is bugged……

Ider.1276:

All other T6 mats for crafting can be gained by just playing the game. But now with h.leather we have to farm in specifically. To make the matter worse, the farm is locked behind a paywall of LS3 Ep4 (considered by a lot of players the worst map of a game and usually not worth buying).
So, again, trying to cure a symptom, not a problem.

You are very correct, something I lost sight of initially out of the relief of having all the T6 leather in my bags. But you are correct. If you don’t have HoT, you are at the mercy of the TP, still. Even with the cheaper prices, that’s not the answer – just buy it. Regarding the centaur leather farm, it is almost as if someone in Anet said “Hmm, let’s take a look at the leather drops there. Oh! It’s not dropping a significantly increased amount of leather like it is supposed to as the promised ‘leather farm’ placed in lieu of AB multi map. Let’s fix that.” So, while we appreciate the steps taken to fix the Lake Doric leather farm (and we do), please Anet do not exclude so many others of your customers by locking leather “behind a paywall”. Fix it, we are tired of bandaids. Meanwhile, I’ve created a donation slot in my guild bank for T6 leather just for guildies who do not have HoT, to aid those who are needy and struggling to craft their gear.

Faaris.8013:

Doing the farm again was a lot of fun, but there were so many people, one half could have switched to another instance. Even with high mobility, it was difficult to land hits. My guess is that the drop rate will be higher when the zerg size will be reasonable. Often, I couldn’t tag a pony, and still got those 26 leather pieces in 15 minutes.

A couple of suggestions for farming Lake Doric leather farm:

• Pick a class that has a good, easy cast aoe like guardian (‘lootstick’), engineer (flamethrower), thief (shortbow #1), elementalist (staff air #1) if you have those classes.
• Turn ON autotargetting. This will help you with any class, as well.

Faaris.8013:

I probably won’t farm there though. I rarely need hardened leather, and soon it will be so cheap that I’ll rather buy it. That farm requires constant attention, you can’t even park somewhere and get a drink from the fridge. It becomes stressful quickly.

While you cannot stop and park during the circuit, there is a clear area that most zergs start/stop at. The circuit only take a few minutes so you would not have to wait long to get back into it. Besides, farming means constant attention. That is what it means to farm. But you do have areas to stop. Worst that happens, you die and run back … meh. Armor repair is cheap

Faaris.8013:

Now, I wonder how it works with hoarded Bloodstone Hides. There are people who hoarded hundreds or thousands of those hides because they were too lazy to open that many manually, and don’t really need the stuff. Which drop rate will it be when they open them now? The old 8% or the new 50%? Is the content of bags calculated when you loot them, or when you open them?

Not having any hoarded hides, my guess would be that the current salvage rate applies.

Faaris.8013:

Now, I wonder how it works with hoarded Bloodstone Hides. There are people who hoarded hundreds or thousands of those hides because they were too lazy to open that many manually, and don’t really need the stuff. Which drop rate will it be when they open them now? The old 8% or the new 50%? Is the content of bags calculated when you loot them, or when you open them?

Rates are applied at the time you open bags or salvage items. Can you imagine the ridiculous amount of unnecessary data that would need to be tracked if those things were determined upon drop and stored until opened/salvaged? The game’s servers would have melted within the first year!

Faaris.8013:

The reality though is that I was able to gear up three characters with ascended stuff in those 4½ months of playing the game. 2 x light and 1 x medium armor. One Zojja’s medium armor set is about 510 gold.

I don’t find it unreasonable to pay 510 gold to craft a full medium ascended armor set.

<snip>

That is my current stance towards leather prices, after reflecting on my own experience as a player with light/medium armor classes and playing since February.

That’s great that you are so philosophical about leather. But the difference between crafting a medium set vs a light or heavy set might not make others so philosophical – especially if they want to craft a medium and wonder why it should cost more.

A lot of people argue that it doesn’t matter that leather costs so much more than other materials. But it is unfair to people who have medium armor characters that their armor costs more than those with light or heavy armor. I know this has actually affected what character class people create or choose to play as their main, which is a shame.

Djinn.9245:

Faaris.8013:

The reality though is that I was able to gear up three characters with ascended stuff in those 4½ months of playing the game. 2 x light and 1 x medium armor. One Zojja’s medium armor set is about 510 gold.

I don’t find it unreasonable to pay 510 gold to craft a full medium ascended armor set.

<snip>

That is my current stance towards leather prices, after reflecting on my own experience as a player with light/medium armor classes and playing since February.

That’s great that you are so philosophical about leather. But the difference between crafting a medium set vs a light or heavy set might not make others so philosophical – especially if they want to craft a medium and wonder why it should cost more.

A lot of people argue that it doesn’t matter that leather costs so much more than other materials. But it is unfair to people who have medium armor characters that their armor costs more than those with light or heavy armor. I know this has actually affected what character class people create or choose to play as their main, which is a shame.

Don’t forget about the cost to actually leveling leathercrafting.

Sartharina.3542:

Nikal.4921:

I’m used to getting leather from skinning creatures and cloth from killing humanoids in other games. Is there a particular reason for this not being available in GW2?

Well, skinning is useless

Why would skinning be useless? It would be a way to get guaranteed leather from a source just like I can get guaranteed metal, wood, and plants from nodes. We should also have guaranteed cloth drops from humanoid mobs.

I never understood why GW2 was created to be so unbalanced in this way.

Kind of like how we have a source dedicated for leather drops right now.

I don’t like centaurleather, it’s just cheap mass produced leather. Dolyak leather is all the craze this year.

Ider.1276:

LadyHawk.5319:

Jump on your favorite farming character, put on some farming music and enjoy the loot! This may be the simple tweak we’ve been asking for, folks!

Actually, no, we never asked for this. It would be better if they fixed h.leather salvage rates from salvaging random drops, not bloodstone hides. Or downed leather in patches from 10 to 5.
All other T6 mats for crafting can be gained by just playing the game. But now with h.leather we have to farm in specifically. To make the matter worse, the farm is locked behind a paywall of LS3 Ep4 (considered by a lot of players the worst map of a game and usually not worth buying).
So, again, trying to cure a symptom, not a problem.

Completely agree. And soon Lake Doric will have the same problem as other HoT maps: if you want to do the “meta” (which in Lake Doric will be leather farm), there will be the successful map that you can’t get in and the unsuccessful maps. Terrible game design.

Djinn.9245:

Ider.1276:

LadyHawk.5319:

Jump on your favorite farming character, put on some farming music and enjoy the loot! This may be the simple tweak we’ve been asking for, folks!

Actually, no, we never asked for this. It would be better if they fixed h.leather salvage rates from salvaging random drops, not bloodstone hides. Or downed leather in patches from 10 to 5.
All other T6 mats for crafting can be gained by just playing the game. But now with h.leather we have to farm in specifically. To make the matter worse, the farm is locked behind a paywall of LS3 Ep4 (considered by a lot of players the worst map of a game and usually not worth buying).
So, again, trying to cure a symptom, not a problem.

Completely agree. And soon Lake Doric will have the same problem as other HoT maps: if you want to do the “meta” (which in Lake Doric will be leather farm), there will be the successful map that you can’t get in and the unsuccessful maps. Terrible game design.

Or you can create your own squad and use the LFG to make your map a successful one.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ider.1276:

LadyHawk.5319:

Jump on your favorite farming character, put on some farming music and enjoy the loot! This may be the simple tweak we’ve been asking for, folks!

Actually, no, we never asked for this. It would be better if they fixed h.leather salvage rates from salvaging random drops, not bloodstone hides. Or downed leather in patches from 10 to 5.
All other T6 mats for crafting can be gained by just playing the game. But now with h.leather we have to farm in specifically. To make the matter worse, the farm is locked behind a paywall of LS3 Ep4 (considered by a lot of players the worst map of a game and usually not worth buying).
So, again, trying to cure a symptom, not a problem.

Completely agree. And soon Lake Doric will have the same problem as other HoT maps: if you want to do the “meta” (which in Lake Doric will be leather farm), there will be the successful map that you can’t get in and the unsuccessful maps. Terrible game design.

Or you can create your own squad and use the LFG to make your map a successful one.

Or you can try – don’t say it is a certainty that you can get enough people to make ANY secondary map successful. That is simply false as I have witnessed time and time again.

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ider.1276:

LadyHawk.5319:

Jump on your favorite farming character, put on some farming music and enjoy the loot! This may be the simple tweak we’ve been asking for, folks!

Actually, no, we never asked for this. It would be better if they fixed h.leather salvage rates from salvaging random drops, not bloodstone hides. Or downed leather in patches from 10 to 5.
All other T6 mats for crafting can be gained by just playing the game. But now with h.leather we have to farm in specifically. To make the matter worse, the farm is locked behind a paywall of LS3 Ep4 (considered by a lot of players the worst map of a game and usually not worth buying).
So, again, trying to cure a symptom, not a problem.

Completely agree. And soon Lake Doric will have the same problem as other HoT maps: if you want to do the “meta” (which in Lake Doric will be leather farm), there will be the successful map that you can’t get in and the unsuccessful maps. Terrible game design.

Or you can create your own squad and use the LFG to make your map a successful one.

Or you can try – don’t say it is a certainty that you can get enough people to make ANY secondary map successful. That is simply false as I have witnessed time and time again.

We’ve done it with about 10 people so you don’t need that many. I’ve witnessed it time and time succeeding.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I don’t like centaurleather, it’s just cheap mass produced leather. Dolyak leather is all the craze this year.

Yes, but Dolyak leather is primarily imported and you have deal with world versus world competitive pricing.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ider.1276:

LadyHawk.5319:

Jump on your favorite farming character, put on some farming music and enjoy the loot! This may be the simple tweak we’ve been asking for, folks!

Actually, no, we never asked for this. It would be better if they fixed h.leather salvage rates from salvaging random drops, not bloodstone hides. Or downed leather in patches from 10 to 5.
All other T6 mats for crafting can be gained by just playing the game. But now with h.leather we have to farm in specifically. To make the matter worse, the farm is locked behind a paywall of LS3 Ep4 (considered by a lot of players the worst map of a game and usually not worth buying).
So, again, trying to cure a symptom, not a problem.

Completely agree. And soon Lake Doric will have the same problem as other HoT maps: if you want to do the “meta” (which in Lake Doric will be leather farm), there will be the successful map that you can’t get in and the unsuccessful maps. Terrible game design.

Or you can create your own squad and use the LFG to make your map a successful one.

Or you can try – don’t say it is a certainty that you can get enough people to make ANY secondary map successful. That is simply false as I have witnessed time and time again.

We’ve done it with about 10 people so you don’t need that many. I’ve witnessed it time and time succeeding.

It would be nice to see LFGs successfully running rather than the hopes of getting onto a map.

Djinn.9245:

Or you can try – don’t say it is a certainty that you can get enough people to make ANY secondary map successful. That is simply false as I have witnessed time and time again.

Myself and 3 guildmates have run this farm by ourselves successfully, and we’re average players. If 4 people can do it, it shouldn’t be hard to toss up a rainbow dorito and get enough people to run it comfortably. It is not a Dragons Stand meta for crying out loud.

Tanuk.7961:

Djinn.9245:

Or you can try – don’t say it is a certainty that you can get enough people to make ANY secondary map successful. That is simply false as I have witnessed time and time again.

Myself and 3 guildmates have run this farm by ourselves successfully, and we’re average players. If 4 people can do it, it shouldn’t be hard to toss up a rainbow dorito and get enough people to run it comfortably. It is not a Dragons Stand meta for crying out loud.

You and 3 guildmates run together and know each other. Apparently you aren’t familiar with PUGs if you think guaranteed success at anything with a PUG is easy.

LadyHawk.5319:

FrizzFreston.5290:

I don’t like centaurleather, it’s just cheap mass produced leather. Dolyak leather is all the craze this year.

Yes, but Dolyak leather is primarily imported and you have deal with world versus world competitive pricing.

Well yes. Gotta go the extra mile if you want quality (battle)hardened leather.

Djinn.9245:

Tanuk.7961:

Djinn.9245:

Or you can try – don’t say it is a certainty that you can get enough people to make ANY secondary map successful. That is simply false as I have witnessed time and time again.

Myself and 3 guildmates have run this farm by ourselves successfully, and we’re average players. If 4 people can do it, it shouldn’t be hard to toss up a rainbow dorito and get enough people to run it comfortably. It is not a Dragons Stand meta for crying out loud.

You and 3 guildmates run together and know each other. Apparently you aren’t familiar with PUGs if you think guaranteed success at anything with a PUG is easy.

People who know each other aren’t just magically better at playing together than a random group of players. Fairly easy to see when playing with random guildmates vs random players.

Djinn.9245:

Sartharina.3542:

Nikal.4921:

I’m used to getting leather from skinning creatures and cloth from killing humanoids in other games. Is there a particular reason for this not being available in GW2?

Well, skinning is useless

Why would skinning be useless? It would be a way to get guaranteed leather from a source just like I can get guaranteed metal, wood, and plants from nodes. We should also have guaranteed cloth drops from humanoid mobs.

I never understood why GW2 was created to be so unbalanced in this way.

Exactly. Just like with ore and lumber, you should (IMO) be able to find appropriate tier cloth and leather for the zone you are in. As it is now, you have to level alts to particular levels and halt their progress forever just to have them open bags for the tier cloth/leather you are looking for. This is really bad design decision- again, JMO.

Djinn.9245:

Sartharina.3542:

Nikal.4921:

I’m used to getting leather from skinning creatures and cloth from killing humanoids in other games. Is there a particular reason for this not being available in GW2?

Well, skinning is useless

Why would skinning be useless? It would be a way to get guaranteed leather from a source just like I can get guaranteed metal, wood, and plants from nodes. We should also have guaranteed cloth drops from humanoid mobs.

I never understood why GW2 was created to be so unbalanced in this way.

Because its thematically and mechanically awkward given the game’s style of loot system. We could apply this same argument “looting what we can see” to literally everything else in the game, and quickly becomes apparent that the current drop system no longer makes sense, while also requiring more meta data per mob to stay consistent. “I should be able to Loot the Eternity from ArchWizard, along with lots of ancient bones, dust, etc, because hes undead” is both silly, but also the logical conclusion of a Survival style looting system.

We could literally get the same results by having Hide salvage items drop more frequently from beast themed creatures; with zero explanation, no new mechanics, and not have to change anything more then a % value on a drop table ID (of which its pretty clear they have a habit of associating at least one table based mainly on bestiary categories).

The whole reason this even became a problem has almost entirely everything to do with how the original game design saw character progression. Crafting runs parallel to the Loot system, rather then be an integral part of each others design. This made very obvious in the fact that drops are largely based on character level, rather then the source of the bag/drop. If we were to look at the tables, they either nested, or accomplish the same thing as a nested table, in that the drop table for a mob/bag is comprised of multiple tables; some of which may be shared between sources.

In practical terms, your level affects gear drops and will be in the ball park of your level, and are the most common drop on that table- but materials sub-types (which has no level associated in their meta data) will not reflect this, and are very rare by comparison. In the early days of the game, this made perfect sense, as higher level players needed higher tier materials to make level relevant gear and items. But this was a bad design choice for the type of economy the TP is designed to support, and is forced to track a large number of item IDs where 95% is of little to no interest to Lvl 80 players….. IE the ones capable of generating gold, but now have fewer expenses due to hitting the gear ceiling. Mat promotions were put in there to bridge the gap…. but the rarity of Dust at the time made this process not worth the effort; except in the one case of T5→T6 Fine mats, where the drops were still very rare, but recipes only demanded small amounts to be useful.

All that got thrown out of whack, with Asc gear now requiring massive amounts of Mid-Tier mats, passed through multiple condensing, intermediary steps, in order to produce only a portion of a full set. This was 3 full orders of magnitude more materials then T6, but encompassed a massive surplus on the market.
The PROBLEM was the the Surplus forming from “months” of neglect on the crafting side, despite having a comparatively low input rate due to the behavior of the drop tables, and the general speed at which players level. That surplus, which took a long time to build up, was drained in a matter of days; and players lacked reliable mechanisms to replenish the market with the 2 most needed materials in the more expensive portion of the set…. cloth and leather for Armor.

This chain of events lead to the Cloth drought. At the time, Cloth comprised half of EVERY armor recipe, used in making insignias. More importantly, the most popular PvE classes at the time were Guardian, Elementalist and Mesmer; while all 3 Med classes were rarely welcome in any group meta. Guardians were perhaps the most likely to get an Asc armor set, due to high demand in group meta- but that cost was split with the otherwise easy gather metal. Leather armor classes had very little demand, and recipes didn’t require much outside of Med armor; so those prices stayed low, as supplies didn’t move in volume.

But this whole situation flipped when they made EVERY armor recipe require equal, if not MORE leather then it did cloth. They also changed the recipes T5 to require 4 raw per refined, in a direct effort to drain the supply. It was successful in making leather relevant….. and then fell into the same trap that Cloth did- only harder due to the larger amounts needed. But Patches were only one part of the problem. All of a sudden, newer one-off recipes were demanding T6 leather for collections. Gossamer didn’t get this same level of attention; which is why the T6 Cloth remains relatively cheap to this day.

Cloth and Leather are unique in that they have no direct gathering source, but they are also called for in nearly 10 times the amount to create a useful item set. This low input, high consumption state of demand could be universally solved by either increasing the rate of normal bag drops across all zones (which ignore level and can output the mat directly), and/or (preferably) increasing the drop rate of non-gear salvage, as those abide by source level and don’t have subtables to compete with possible output of leather/cloth.

FrizzFreston.5290:

LadyHawk.5319:

FrizzFreston.5290:

I don’t like centaurleather, it’s just cheap mass produced leather. Dolyak leather is all the craze this year.

Yes, but Dolyak leather is primarily imported and you have deal with world versus world competitive pricing.

Well yes. Gotta go the extra mile if you want quality (battle)hardened leather.

Except that to craft or shape dolyak leather you have to soften it, and that takes oil. The best oils are made from plants in Tangled Depths but what with the frog union holding strikes all the time the prices have gone through the roof. Don’t get swindled by vendors selling chak oil. It’s low quality and will make your leather brittle. Plus you don’t want to know how they get the oil.

mtpelion.4562:

Rates are applied at the time you open bags or salvage items. Can you imagine the ridiculous amount of unnecessary data that would need to be tracked if those things were determined upon drop and stored until opened/salvaged? The game’s servers would have melted within the first year!

Thinking about it, that would be ridiculous. In the worst case, someone loots only a couple of bags per day and has a stack that contains 100 different entries for their content, depending on several things, mabye even the current magic find rate, which can change depedning on the food or gear you wear (not sure if luck goes into opening these bags).

It is also quite ridiculous that people who hoarded bags now have a 50% chance to get heardened leather compared to the people who opened the same drops earlier. Hoarding should not be rewarded.

Abelisk.4527:

Oh this is awesome!! This means:

1. More zergs in Lake Doric
2. Lower hardened leather price
3. A potentially outprofitting farm over SW

Im gonna farm ASAP

Except, the more people that believe this notion, the more the price will crash, thus, keeping SW the highest profiting non-instanced farm method in the game currently.

DakotaCoty.5721:

Abelisk.4527:

Oh this is awesome!! This means:

1. More zergs in Lake Doric
2. Lower hardened leather price
3. A potentially outprofitting farm over SW

Im gonna farm ASAP

Except, the more people that believe this notion, the more the price will crash, thus, keeping SW the highest profiting non-instanced farm method in the game currently.

And given more time, more people will forget that notion, and the price will rise!

The cost of t6 leather and bloodstone-warped bags has appeared to stabilize as of now, but if more people do it then the profit is sure to plummet. SW is the “go-to” farm that will likely always be profitable, even though the leather farm will yield more gold from time to time.

I don’t think there will be a lot of people farming Doric though, since it’s behind a LS episode, and many people still don’t know why leather crashed. I talked about it in two guilds with a large amount of players in both and none of them knew about the hide salvage change. Some people still don’t know what the leather farm is.

Oh and another thing: more precursors/exotics/BLC keys! Someone in our squad a few hours ago found a BLC key. Within an hour you’ll easily have defeated 300-400 mobs (with a good group) which is a lot of chances for high-end items, compared to the 80 bag (and 50-100 mob) total you get from a typical RIBA SW run. The DR is a shame though.

even though the leather farm will yield more gold from time to time.

The latter is simply untrue. You’d need to make 166 t6 leather per hour to equalise the gold, and 167+ to make more profit than Silverwastes.

We had a nice casual farming method to build up the Leather supply. Anyone who complained about that farm, should live with the consequences of a lower leather supply now.

DeWolfe.2174:

We had a nice casual farming method to build up the Leather supply. Anyone who complained about that farm, should live with the consequences of a lower leather supply now.

And everyone who didn’t complain about the farm, also should live with the consequences of a lower leather supply.

Anet changed it, not the players who complained.

Faaris.8013:

mtpelion.4562:

Rates are applied at the time you open bags or salvage items. Can you imagine the ridiculous amount of unnecessary data that would need to be tracked if those things were determined upon drop and stored until opened/salvaged? The game’s servers would have melted within the first year!

Thinking about it, that would be ridiculous. In the worst case, someone loots only a couple of bags per day and has a stack that contains 100 different entries for their content, depending on several things, mabye even the current magic find rate, which can change depedning on the food or gear you wear (not sure if luck goes into opening these bags).

It is also quite ridiculous that people who hoarded bags now have a 50% chance to get heardened leather compared to the people who opened the same drops earlier. Hoarding should not be rewarded.

I’m not sure if you’ve played many MMOs…. but the vast majority of them openly encourage hoarding with their reward systems. As long as there is uncertainty, people will hoard on speculation.

*If you want to stop people from hoarding, you have to get rid of the RNG. * But these types of games won’t do that, because the players demand a sense of accomplishment…. and that can only be produced if there is a sense of struggle to overcome. RNG is by far the most effective of these, because its the same archetype behind gambling. The more the odds are stacked against them, the greater the high of beating it. More importantly, players also adopt a very vicarious/jealous sense of participation seeing other players beat the odds. It creates a gnawing feeling that messes with your judgement; You know its not really worth the effort, but you’ll do it anyway on the off chance of scoring a big win.

DeWolfe.2174:

We had a nice casual farming method to build up the Leather supply. Anyone who complained about that farm, should live with the consequences of a lower leather supply now.

But your casual semi-afk method didn’t make a difference in leather prices at all. The consequences you are talking about caused a price drop of 33% within a day. The supply is pretty constant anyway and seems to have no effect on prices.

Take a look at https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19732-hardened-leather-section

No idea what you are talking about really.

starlinvf.1358:

Faaris.8013:

mtpelion.4562:

Rates are applied at the time you open bags or salvage items. Can you imagine the ridiculous amount of unnecessary data that would need to be tracked if those things were determined upon drop and stored until opened/salvaged? The game’s servers would have melted within the first year!

Thinking about it, that would be ridiculous. In the worst case, someone loots only a couple of bags per day and has a stack that contains 100 different entries for their content, depending on several things, mabye even the current magic find rate, which can change depedning on the food or gear you wear (not sure if luck goes into opening these bags).

It is also quite ridiculous that people who hoarded bags now have a 50% chance to get heardened leather compared to the people who opened the same drops earlier. Hoarding should not be rewarded.

I’m not sure if you’ve played many MMOs…. but the vast majority of them openly encourage hoarding with their reward systems. As long as there is uncertainty, people will hoard on speculation.

*If you want to stop people from hoarding, you have to get rid of the RNG. * But these types of games won’t do that, because the players demand a sense of accomplishment…. and that can only be produced if there is a sense of struggle to overcome. RNG is by far the most effective of these, because its the same archetype behind gambling. The more the odds are stacked against them, the greater the high of beating it. More importantly, players also adopt a very vicarious/jealous sense of participation seeing other players beat the odds. It creates a gnawing feeling that messes with your judgement; You know its not really worth the effort, but you’ll do it anyway on the off chance of scoring a big win.

RNG has nothing to do with struggling to overcome an obstacle. It is simple luck.

I agree that people enjoy RNG, but not because it is overcoming anything. That is a different motivation.

Anet finally made good on their promise to provide a leather farm in Lake Doric. That is awesome! They said they would when they blocked the ability to do AB Multimap. The price relief in the TP is already clearly apparent. However, let’s not lose sight of the overall issue that is still at hand: the decreased availability of leather game wide and the continued increased demand in crafting. This effects all levels of leather. We just notice it the most in T6.

T6 mats are dropped mostly in the higher end zones, afaik, that includes Orr, SW, Dry Top, etc. Those areas not locked behind a paywall. Before HoT, that’s where we got those mats, primarily. So now what? Every area except for the Lake Doric leather farm still has the same drop rate. The required amount of leather is still the same. Is the answer, “Let everyone who does not have access to LS3.4 just buy it from those of us who do? Sucks to be you?” I don’t think so, guys. While the present relief is like drought relief in one state and that state can now provide more produce for the other states, the other states still in a drought are accustomed to providing for themselves but are forced to buy instead.

Anet, thank you for addressing the issue with Lake Doric and making it the “Leather Farm” I believe you originally intended it to be. But your work regarding leather is not yet done. Keep up the good work.

DakotaCoty.5721:

even though the leather farm will yield more gold from time to time.

The latter is simply untrue. You’d need to make 166 t6 leather per hour to equalise the gold, and 167+ to make more profit than Silverwastes.

Which is why you sell the hides. Salvage items will always be more pricey than the salvage results, otherwise players will make a profit from buying salvage items off the TP and getting more mats than the salvage item worth.

In an hour you typically get around 200+ hides with a good squad which if sold from setting a sell order will net around 30 gold.

It’s nice to see a solution produced to the leather crisis. Albeit not the greatest solution because not everyone has access to it (locked behind a paywall [LS3.4]) but it’s a start. I do think I see why it is the farm the way it is. Had this not been behind a paywall and in a difficult area, the massive amount of people doing it, including bots, would have flooded the market and made it as worthless as gossamer. We have found some relief with this update, and that is fantastic! However we need to continue to get the word out about it rather than leaving it as a seemingly inconsequential and subtle change in the patch notes. Otherwise the market will not fluctuate properly and the leather prices will rise YET AGAIN when people get tired of zerging up and down the hill in Lake Doric. We all have other stuff we want to do, but we can’t do the Lake Doric leather farm forever to maintain leather prices at its current rate (Unrefined: 23s77c/Refined: 80s50c). I usually find Orichalcum as a good base value to judge off of due to the fixed availability and demand:usage ratio. Leather still needs to continue to drop, because as of the time of me typing this, the price of refined leather has dropped by a little less than 25%.

So, let’s compare:
Bolt of Gossamer: (1s13c)
Orichalcum Ingot: (5s1c)
Hardened Leather Square: (80s59c)

One of these things is not like the other, take a quick guess.

(and if you guessed either Gossamer or Orichalcum, you guessed wrong.)

I do grasp that Lake Doric was a prime place to implement the change and increase the leather salvage rates at. However I fear that this may not be enough.

I think it’s safe to say that people will grow tired of the leather farm, and the lack of progress we’ve seen so far to the leather prices may become discouraging. I do feel like something more needs to happen elsewhere, whether it just be to increase salvage rates from other specific items in areas that require you to be moving and not afk.
Like maybe any items specifically found in Dragon Stand perhaps, could also encourage proper map-wide meta progress. I don’t know if there many “Dragon Stand only” or “Maguuma only” drops, however another minor tweak might be something Anet could look at? I mean, it would also be behind a paywall, which could help keep things balanced, but at least it’s not as obscure as an LS episode.

How long will people continue to do these leather runs? Are they only doing them because prices peaked over 1g a piece of refined leather? Will people only do the runs when leather prices peak again? At what point does leather reach it’s lowest and begin to skyrocket again?

Stay tuned!

Turblumber.3125:

DakotaCoty.5721:

Do Silverwastes for an hour, get 35g, buy leather.

There are ways to farm gold to buy leather, even Lake Doric gives you 15-20g/h worth of leather if you have a decent comm and know how to evade DR.

The crisis, isn’t even a crisis.

This is a band-aid to a severed limb.

It’s actually not, because that’s how the game was originally conceived in the first place. You earn the gold, you buy the mats from the TP. In fact, that’s STILL the relevant approach; there are very few mats you can actually farm for in this game from the traditional MMO sense of the concept of farming.

If anything, it’s the leather farm that is the band-aid; IT’S the exception to how things are intended to work.

Turblumber.3125:

It’s nice to see a solution produced to the leather crisis. Albeit not the greatest solution because not everyone has access to it (locked behind a paywall [LS3.4]) but it’s a start. I do think I see why it is the farm the way it is. Had this not been behind a paywall and in a difficult area, the massive amount of people doing it, including bots, would have flooded the market and made it as worthless as gossamer. We have found some relief with this update, and that is fantastic! However we need to continue to get the word out about it rather than leaving it as a seemingly inconsequential and subtle change in the patch notes. Otherwise the market will not fluctuate properly and the leather prices will rise YET AGAIN when people get tired of zerging up and down the hill in Lake Doric. We all have other stuff we want to do, but we can’t do the Lake Doric leather farm forever to maintain leather prices at its current rate (Unrefined: 23s77c/Refined: 80s50c). I usually find Orichalcum as a good base value to judge off of due to the fixed availability and demand:usage ratio. Leather still needs to continue to drop, because as of the time of me typing this, the price of refined leather has dropped by a little less than 25%.

So, let’s compare:
Bolt of Gossamer: (1s13c)
Orichalcum Ingot: (5s1c)
Hardened Leather Square: (80s59c)

One of these things is not like the other, take a quick guess.

(and if you guessed either Gossamer or Orichalcum, you guessed wrong.)

I do grasp that Lake Doric was a prime place to implement the change and increase the leather salvage rates at. However I fear that this may not be enough.

I think it’s safe to say that people will grow tired of the leather farm, and the lack of progress we’ve seen so far to the leather prices may become discouraging. I do feel like something more needs to happen elsewhere, whether it just be to increase salvage rates from other specific items in areas that require you to be moving and not afk.
Like maybe any items specifically found in Dragon Stand perhaps, could also encourage proper map-wide meta progress. I don’t know if there many “Dragon Stand only” or “Maguuma only” drops, however another minor tweak might be something Anet could look at? I mean, it would also be behind a paywall, which could help keep things balanced, but at least it’s not as obscure as an LS episode.

How long will people continue to do these leather runs? Are they only doing them because prices peaked over 1g a piece of refined leather? Will people only do the runs when leather prices peak again? At what point does leather reach it’s lowest and begin to skyrocket again?

Stay tuned!

These are all valid points and questions for us to keep in mind and try to keep in Anet’s mind (if it isn’t there already), as the honeymoon of the new drop rate and salvage rate for Bloodstone-Warped Hides wears off.

While players having to pay for access is a valid argument, how many people don’t have access to it regardless as to whether they have HoT or not? I’m not really expecting an answer as none of us will have one. I believe most of the player base had logged in during the 2-3 month window that the episode was active. This make the paywall issue not as significant.

The total cost for the episode is about 62G which you can make back easily by doing that farm and selling the other drops along with excess hardened leather.

Turblumber.3125:

It’s nice to see a solution produced to the leather crisis. Albeit not the greatest solution because not everyone has access to it (locked behind a paywall [LS3.4]) but it’s a start. I do think I see why it is the farm the way it is. Had this not been behind a paywall and in a difficult area, the massive amount of people doing it, including bots, would have flooded the market and made it as worthless as gossamer.

Which is why a leather farm was such a terrible idea in the first place. What Anet should have done was UNDO the mistake they made with leather that caused the problem in the first place. If they changed 1 increment at a time, slowly, and waiting after each for things to settle, they could have brought leather back to an acceptable place without this artificial farm. You should be able to get the leather you need throughout Tyria just like other crafting materials, not just in one map in one specific spot. It’s just stupid.

You mean like cloth @Djinn? Gee I remember with Silk became the “overpriced pls fix” poster child when ascended armor first came out. ANet did the same thing with adjusting refinement requirements and doubling recipe values to “fix” a glut. Of course now the price has dropped a great deal since those dark times as players simply gave up hoarding silk, selling the stuff they don’t need for a quick coin.

The crafting adjustments was just one issue, one that I approve of to adjust consumption but the issue with T6 leather boiled down to the massive amounts needed for other activities that were added when HoT came out that sucked up all the new T6 leather as soon as it got dropped into the TP which means the price gets to go up until enough stop buying it because they can’t afford it. Basic pricing response to Supply & Demand.

To satisfy demand you must increase supply so the price becomes more affordable. Preferably a way that players can respond to excesses or shortages to supply and that by definition is a farm, rather than just increased random drops in the world.

Behellagh.1468:

To satisfy demand you must increase supply so the price becomes more affordable. Preferably a way that players can respond to excesses or shortages to supply and that by definition is a farm, rather than just increased random drops in the world.

Preferable way is not to create an artificial shortage of supply and then make players grind to fix it. With all other T6 mats in game it is just “you get them while you play, the more you play more you get”. With leather it is “you buy our stuff for real money then grind”. Why should we do this? Why GW2 should be like other MMOs, copying their worst mechanics (grind to play)?
Even after Doric fixes h.leather costs 3 times the ancient wood and 40 times the gossamer. And that is more a psychological result, cause the supply increased like 10%. I will not be surprised if in a month the price will rise again to 28-30 silvers, when the novelty of farm and market panic will wear off. So I disagree strongly that this farm is the best solution.

Obtena.7952:

It’s actually not, because that’s how the game was originally conceived in the first place. You earn the gold, you buy the mats from the TP. In fact, that’s STILL the relevant approach; there are very few mats you can actually farm for in this game from the traditional MMO sense of the concept of farming.

When I started playing GW2, I tried to farm all materials for crafting myself because that’s how I used to do it. Soon I noticed that this is not the smart way in this game, and started using the trading post. There’s nothing wrong with it, and collecting all mats yourself drives you crazy. Imagine you had to find enough Maguuma Lilies or Freshwater Pearls for your project. Other people got them but don’t need them, so they sell. It makes a good part of what an MMO game is supposed to be in my opinion.

Btw. the Hardened Leather price seems to stabilize already at 22 to 23 silver, while Thick Leather just has the usual fluctuations, same with Silk Scraps. Why doesn’t get Thick Leather cheaper? My guess is that people started their postponed crafting projects and the demand has risen significantly. So much that the additional Thick Leather that the pony farm produces can’t keep up with it.

I also think people are hoarding hardened leather now, maybe because they don’t like the price it sells for. All the Bloodstone Hides that were bought right after the patch should have added to the flood of Hardened Leather too. Those Hides were set up with the expectation that 8% of them contain Hardened Leather, and the price was set according to that. When people noticed that they could buy the Hides cheaply and get leather at a 50% rate, the sales spiked. Shortly after the patch, the supply dropped from 13k to 300 and the price to more than 1g (I think someone or a small group of players quickly doubled their wealth here because they released the hides to the market for 12 silver average and bought for 6). However, thousands of hides must have been salvaged at that time, because people could buy them cheaply and sell the leather for good profit. And yet, the price drop for Heardened Leather is lower than I expected.

One thing I don’t quite understand is that the price for Hides is only twice as much now as before the patch. As far as I know, the drop rate before was 8% (hardened leather) and now it’s about 50%. The hides’ value should be 6 times higher than before.

If you buy 100 hides now for 12g and you get the expected 50 Hardened Leather (no thick leather), you can sell them for 11g. Sounds fair enough, and you make some profit because of the other stuff you get and if salvaging is cheap for you, the better. Why the heck did Hides cost 6 silver before when the drop rate was only 8%?? From 100 Hides for 6g you got only 8 Hardened leather that you could sell for 3g at best. What am I missing here? It would have been stupid to buy the Hides before the patch, who would have done that? There were 13k on the market, and if nobody bought, the price should have dropped. My guess is that I’m missing something, please enlighten me

Behellagh.1468:

You mean like cloth @Djinn? Gee I remember with Silk became the “overpriced pls fix” poster child when ascended armor first came out. ANet did the same thing with adjusting refinement requirements and doubling recipe values to “fix” a glut. Of course now the price has dropped a great deal since those dark times as players simply gave up hoarding silk, selling the stuff they don’t need for a quick coin.

The only reason silk went down is because now in crafting it’s mostly useless without leather anyway. And not only leather has more uses now, but also the cloth salvage rate from armor is greater.

Behellagh.1468:

You mean like cloth @Djinn? Gee I remember with Silk became the “overpriced pls fix” poster child when ascended armor first came out. ANet did the same thing with adjusting refinement requirements and doubling recipe values to “fix” a glut. Of course now the price has dropped a great deal since those dark times as players simply gave up hoarding silk, selling the stuff they don’t need for a quick coin.

The crafting adjustments was just one issue, one that I approve of to adjust consumption but the issue with T6 leather boiled down to the massive amounts needed for other activities that were added when HoT came out that sucked up all the new T6 leather as soon as it got dropped into the TP which means the price gets to go up until enough stop buying it because they can’t afford it. Basic pricing response to Supply & Demand.

To satisfy demand you must increase supply so the price becomes more affordable. Preferably a way that players can respond to excesses or shortages to supply and that by definition is a farm, rather than just increased random drops in the world.

I didn’t change hoarding silk. And I doubt many other players did. I think more people gave up on getting ascended materials than that there are people who gave up on hoarding silk. Especially after getting your first ascended gear you dont need much mora, and by this time you can get ascended gear through way easier ways, like fractals, pvp, raids and wvw.

Ofcourse recently they changed those methods exactly because people weren’t crafting anymore. Maybe there’s a connection there as well as being tied to leather these days. :p

Faaris.8013:

I also think people are hoarding hardened leather now, maybe because they don’t like the price it sells for.

Doubtful. The majority of players are, most likely, finally proceeding with crafting projects they have had to put off due to the ridiculous price, whilst also refurbishing their personal stock (not ‘hoarding’). Personally, I am proceeding with a huge guild hall decoration project I have wanted (requires 720 T6 leather to complete), donating T6 leather to my guild bank for those in my guild who are FTP, do not have LS3.4, etc to share the relief and planning on crafting my 7th ascended armor set.

Please note though, guys … even with the price relief we’ve had, the pricing of T6 leather is still out of balance with the rest of the T6 mats. While it is been great to see so many T6 sections in my bags, the price is still too high, comparatively.