Guild Wars 2

I understand why some want the event to fail…because the event that follows has more reward/loot. Why can’t all of the events in that chain have the same rewards? This would avoid the nasty pms from people calling me a jerk and other choice names for not letting the first event fail. I am sure this topic has come up in the forums before. Does this system bother anyone else? As one who doesn’t pve very often I have been yelled at by other pve players a lot for not knowing “the rules”. At times I miss gw1 where we all had our own instance to kill and explore.

From what i can tell this comes mostly up in Orr, Cursed Shore to be exact… quite honestly, the whole of Orr should get a rework at some point.

That’s just my opinion though.

I totally agree. The design of getting a reward for an event that can only come after another one has failed is flawed.

For example – if you defend an event, say, Lyssa Temple or whatever, the reward should be the same as re-taking the event. This would cut down on toxicity among players, and reward people the prize they’re after without having to rely on other player’s co-operation. It’s been mentioned many, many times.

ArenaNet have taken steps to some degree to fix this, but then ended up adding other rewards to the same events (such as statue decorations or precursor collections) since then.

It doesn’t matter if it’s an event that peeps want to fail or succeed, if I’m going into something I know to be a huge event, I research it first… that’s what I did with Octovine, Dragon’s Stand, Tequatil, and on….

If I don’t know that I’m heading into something that I should know something important about… well that can be harder. I generally am too distracted by the event to regularly look at my chat box… but, when a player’s speech bubble pops up I strive to look at it… and if it is my first time doing whatever event, I do what the speech bubble says…. and that includes stop doing whatever it is I’m doing.

Both these things mean I don’t experience much at all what you have. But, if afterwards some people are complaining, I first ask for an explanation. If one isn’t given and obscenities continue, then I report and block. Later when I’ve logged out and have some free time, I’ll use what happened as a prompt to do a little more research.

Obscene players will get rooted out when they’re reported… it is a player problem and not a system problem.

I think there’s more players who’re understanding about someone not knowing some vital piece of info like an event needs to fail, then there are those who are kittens…. it’s just that the kittens meow the loudest.

Also, I personally think requiring an event to fail is a design flaw because it’s not intuitive… but I’m not a dev, so that’s not my call.

~EW

I actually think the defend events should be more rewarding (And perhaps harder too to compensate) than the capture ones. What kind of hero says “Oh, you need defending? You’re on your own, mate. I’ll wait until your dead so I can get better loot!”?

Completing some events is necessary for some achievements and precursor crafting. If I need a certain event to succeed I am going to do my best to see that it does no matter what anyone else thinks or says.

I personally find it rude to assume that everyone will know what events other players want to fail. Some people ignore their chat altogether. Some people just enjoy winning an event. For many different reasons, it is just ignorant to expect anyone else to let an event fail if they don’t want to do so. I have no sympathy for those that are obscene are throw tantrums over winning an event in chat.

penelopehannibal.8947:

I actually think the defend events should be more rewarding (And perhaps harder too to compensate) than the capture ones. What kind of hero says “Oh, you need defending? You’re on your own, mate. I’ll wait until your dead so I can get better loot!”?

I agree.

I thought Anet came down really heavily on the people doing this in Orr like well over a year ago, I’m actually shocked it’s still going on.
But then I avoid Orr like the plague.

There’s really no situation where failing an event should be preferable to succeeding it, short of a general “I want to see what happens” curiosity. Otherwise, you get players fighting each other.

Unfortunately, event chains do occasionally lead to situations like that, whether it’s by giving out better loot in an event further down the chain or by requiring a particular event for a precursor scavenger hunt. The former is just a balancing oversight, and the latter is something Anet has tried to improve since they initially did precursor collections. I don’t know how many “required to fail” cases are still out there, but I think everyone can agree that those situations are trouble.

penelopehannibal.8947:

I actually think the defend events should be more rewarding (And perhaps harder too to compensate) than the capture ones. What kind of hero says “Oh, you need defending? You’re on your own, mate. I’ll wait until your dead so I can get better loot!”?

This is one of the biggest design failures of the game – rewarding failure. There are min/max players who would kill the Queen themselves if it gave them a single copper more than saving her. Failure of a dynamic event should be something every player wants to avoid at all costs. If there must be some kind of reward given, the “consolation prize” should be much lower than the reward for a success, so that no one looks forward to getting 30% of a reward for a job poorly done. If there are follow up-events, the reward for the entire chain from failure to redemption should be 75% to 90% of the success reward, to give them something to make the effort worthwhile but still not the best case scenario.

When the majority of players want the event to fail so they can get more loot, the entire design is a failure.

Making a successful event harder to compensate for more loot, though – that’s also a mistake. Min/maxing takes time and effort into the equation, and completing two successful events in the time that it takes to fail four could still end up yielding less rewards for more effort, which leads back to the original problem.

Thank you all for your comments. I had to bump this topic up again hoping anet will notice and change this. It happened again in Cursed Shores. “Let defend Arah fail so I can get my legendary”. if anet is going to make gathering items for collections dependent on certain events then those events should not be a part of a let the event fail chain. Please change this so people can stop yelling at other playes in map chat, say chat and pms.

It’s usually not failing is more rewarding but that the event resets quickly to farm again.

Now from a design aspect, a quickish reset for a multi event meta makes sense so you can try it again to move on to the next, the ultimate goal is getting to the end of the meta for the bigger reward. The design presumption is that players WANT to get to the end of the meta.

Now the two fixes for failure abuse is either bumping the reset timer up so the loot/hour is less attractive and those players abusing it move onto something else or you eliminate drops (and possibly XP) from the event spawned mobs and improve the reward for completion but with some participation tracking so leechers don’t crash the last minute for rewards.

It’s not that it’s a bad design, it’s that the devs expect players to listen to their better angels.

It might be helpful to list exactly which event / precursor step is causing the trouble, so it could be more easily looked at.

Devs have repeatedly said they do not want this mechanic. If failure is more desirable than completing an event, they intend to remove it, because this causes major clashes with the playerbase (as you can imagine – some wanting to complete, some not).

They consider it a bug, please report it as such.

Only problem with removing failed event rewards is that even more people will try to cram onto a single map to finish only one version of a meta.

The true problem is the mega servers and they really need to sort that out.

There are no failed event rewards, only rewards from rerunning the event in short order and farming the critters that spawn for it.

Djinn.9245:

penelopehannibal.8947:

I actually think the defend events should be more rewarding (And perhaps harder too to compensate) than the capture ones. What kind of hero says “Oh, you need defending? You’re on your own, mate. I’ll wait until your dead so I can get better loot!”?

I agree.

Definitely! That logic… x_x

These types of events are, I believe, an artifact of pre-launch design philosophy. ANet stated they were trying to make a dynamic experience wherein player choices to participate in events mattered. The idea was people would do events because it was fun. If there was no one around, an event would fail, but there would be another event (or an event chain) following that failure. It wouldn’t matter which, because there would always be one thing or another happening, so there would always be fun to be had.

What’s happened since is that a massive number of players have let Anet know at great length and in no uncertain terms that fun and a dynamic experience are very much secondary to loot. However, the design is still there from the original intent. If you look at events constructed since, ANet has gone away from conditional events and chains, instead opting for cyclical events that propagate on a regular basis and don’t cause such conflicts. ANet’s learned. However, reworking existing events is at best going to be a piecemeal thing. ANet has only done so when the chat arguments and/or abuse get to be too much.

So, I don’t expect a systematic rework of conditional events in core. Honestly, ANet has done so many reworks of so many things already, and needs to focus on producing new content, on a relatively short, sustainable schedule — and reworks will interfere with that.

This situation puts players against player and keeps popping is ugly head more often than anyone with a modicum of decency would prefer.

One player may want the map reward, the rest just wants to open the loot bags that drop from risen. One player wants some item form the vendor on success, another wants some drop for a collection from failure. And this usually ends with a majority of shortsighted unscrupulous bullies who only see the short term rewards and do not realize the long term harmful consequences of their behavior, harassing the minority, which is usually a few players wanting to play the content as intended, which is attempting success of vents.

This has been happening for too long, it keeps happening even after a few changes that attempted to address the issue but where incomplete, and it needs to stop.

A pass was made to change some of these controversial events, but there’s still quite some of these left around. Mostly in Orr.

This can be fixed with measures like increasing cooldowns: If an event succeeds, the next starts instantly, or in no less than 5 minutes. If the event fails, the next one will take 20 minutes to start.

This change must come with a change to all those pre-legendary collection items that require anything to fail to get the item.

Also, there’s some events that produce a more ‘desirable’ event when failed, like the one at the pyrite peninsula that makes 1 champion event when failed which means a champion bag, but 3 measly veterans when succeeded sharing one event. In that particular example, what should happen instead is this:

• Failure: 1 event with just 1 veteran golem.
• Success: 3 events, 1 with a champion, 2 with 1 veteran each.

That way the champion bag goes on success, and success also means 3 chances at more map rewards rather than the same. So even if a player is alone and can’t defeat the champion, they can at least fight the other 2 veterans and still get bonus map reward twice.

Others produce events with waves of enemies on failure, but nothing on success. It should always be the other way around.

Of course, there could be always the “this is why can’t have nice things” punishment change, that simply removes drops from enemies spawned by the event. But that will usually met backlash. It should have been like that from the start having all rewards from vents as loot bags and caches and other drops at the end of the event on success, but it wasn’t, so now people got used to going around spamming staff 1 with a guardian rather than succeeding events or even focusing on the objectives of the event. So it’s hard to undo that damage without making these kind of players feel things are being taken away from them.

I agree that it is a little stupid to have failed events lead to better loot. But it’s equally as stupid to not listen to others in chat, especially people who are repeatedly telling you to let the event fail, so that everyone can get champs or the like. There is a crowd of people there for the event, telling that ONE or TWO people to stop, take a step back, and there is a lot more fun to be had. And then those ONE or TWO go and ruin the event for the crowd.

Sounds amazing, doesn’kitten I swear every time someone tries to kill the toxifiers in the Toxic Alchemist when I’m leveling alts I am like “No, don’t do that, if you let them go then a lot of champion frogs will come out, versus the cruddy skales that you have now.” Aaaand they never listen.

I wish they would just make the champs spawn with the regular event. Not just this one, but, all the other ones where failing is more rewarding, because half the time you get people that ignore you and then just do what they want, in spite of the crowd of people there going “NOOOOOOOOO!!!”

Just the other day I was playing in Snowden Drifts and the Svanir Champion (not literal “champion”, he was a Veteran) event was going on at Owl’s Abattoir. Suddenly, when the enemy’s health was less than half, someone told everyone to stop attacking him. I did and asked him “Why?”, but the others kept attacking and he was dead in a few seconds. Then the individual, who wanted something for Nevermore from the failure, swore up a storm and even went so far as to accuse me of killing the enemy, even though I had stopped attacking for him. But he called me a “kitten” and ran off.

Moyayuki.3619:

Just the other day I was playing in Snowden Drifts and the Svanir Champion (not literal “champion”, he was a Veteran) event was going on at Owl’s Abattoir. Suddenly, when the enemy’s health was less than half, someone told everyone to stop attacking him. I did and asked him “Why?”, but the others kept attacking and he was dead in a few seconds. Then the individual, who wanted something for Nevermore from the failure, swore up a storm and even went so far as to accuse me of killing the enemy, even though I had stopped attacking for him. But he called me a “kitten” and ran off.

Which was dumb of him, because that event chain has actually already been fixed, as far as Nevermore collection is concerned. Months ago.
The next event would have given him what he wanted if he didn’t leave.

Avengedeath.4671:

It happened again in Cursed Shores. “Let defend Arah fail so I can get my legendary”. if anet is going to make gathering items for collections dependent on certain events then those events should not be a part of a let the event fail chain.

The position in the chain is a matter of perspective. All event chains have to start somewhere, and Defeat the High Wizard is actually 8th from the beginning. When that chain starts, it’s not in a ‘fail chain’, but rather relies on a lot of successes.

The real issue with the Assault on Arah chain is that it is not a chain. It’s more of a web. There are a lot of branching points for success or fail until you get to the final attack (seize the steps->capture the hall->defeat the high wizard->defend), which progresses in one direction only. Once it gets to Defend, it loops onto itself with every success and remains stable. Failure takes you to a new event (hold shank), which can then loop the chain back to a midpoint or the very beginning, depending on if it succeeds.

At multiple stages, the flow through these events can be subverted. Attaching a reward to any stage can be dangerous, because difficulty or player action may ensure that event does not happen. This isn’t as bad as it sounds – complex scripting makes for interesting story and gameplay. But if you want an event to be accessible, you have to make sure that difficulty and player desires won’t overly interfere.

“It might be helpful to list exactly which event / precursor step is causing the trouble, so it could be more easily looked at.”

Redenaz hit the nail on the head…teach us ignorant people what events were talking about so we don’t get this backlash.

I have no idea…..please enlighten us.

Tom.6478:

“It might be helpful to list exactly which event / precursor step is causing the trouble, so it could be more easily looked at.”

Redenaz hit the nail on the head…teach us ignorant people what events were talking about so we don’t get this backlash.

I have no idea…..please enlighten us.

In the final collection of Astralaria you need to get an item called “Ancient Charting Device” which can only be obtained from taking the temple of dwayna. So when people keep defending the temple its impossible to get this item because you can only get it in the assault event, not the defend event.