Guild Wars 2

I think some players are mistaken in why we have level scaling. In other level based MMOs, if you are max level and want to play with a friend that is lower level, you have to make an alt to play with them, or wait for them to grind up to your level. In GW2, you can just take your main and play with your friend.

I also see the argument that it isn’t worth playing lower content, because of low rewards. I play with friends and family lower than me all the time, and I am not doing it for rewards. I am doing it to have fun with them.

Some people are having a real hard time getting away from the “I need shinnies to have fun” mentality. For years now people have been playing games that they actually don’t enjoy, simply because it “rewards” them with pixels.

The best reward you will ever have is a great time playing with friends, everything else is fluff. This game is playground, and you never outgrow the toys.

Spot on Diva, nice post.
What I would add is about the rewards, they still have a chance to drop items for your level.
I love playing DE’s and play them all over the world, at different levels, I also help out lower level people from time to time. I play mainly because I enjoy the game, but when a level 80 item drops from a level 15 kill, well thats just a nice bonus

When I’m running around the newbie zones and participate in a dynamic event I always get about 250 karma and about 1.5 silver. Yes it’s a little less than what you’d get in Orr but if you are running around those areas helping a friend or collecting crafting materials, it’s worth your time to stop and do them.

I’ve noticed the best Karma rewards seem to be in WvW. Sometimes I’ll get a little over 1k Karma for an event. That’s gotten me hooked into doing WvW.

I’ve been running the lower level areas at 75 just to do some exploring and map completion stuff. I like the level scaling because even though the content is easier for me, I can participate in events without completely screwing it up for lower level folks.

There were a couple of fast respawning, veteran jungle raptors in Metrica that were stomping folks participating in an event to collect raptor eggs. It was kind of an epic battle – leading them away from the bodies so someone else could get in there and revive, trying not to get stomped ourselves. We got both of them and their brood of hatchlings down, paused for a high five, and they respawned.

It was a blast. If I had been able to go in there and single handedly wipe them out, I would not have had as much fun. Was the karma/xp reward worth the time I spent? I probably could have done much better karma per hour elsewhere, but I don’t think it would have been as interesting.

Level scaling let me be part of the team, not some deus ex machina. I really don’t understand when folks say they’ve run out of content. I feel like I’ve barely scratched the surface.

Some folks want mounts and cheaper way points, but I usually end up walking everywhere unless my guild mates are waiting on me. Even if I’ve been through the area before, sometimes I notice things I didn’t see before or find an event that I missed, and there’s always crafting materials to harvest and occasionally other players that can use some help. I don’t get maximum rewards in the lower areas – about 60/40 area level items to my level items – but I get something so it’s not a complete waste of time.

I agree with you on some points. However, I can tell that you’re not at level 80 and that you haven’t read a lot of Dev posts. The level scaling system was intended to make the whole world a viable endgame. This is the justification for us only having a single level 80 zone, and 4 level 70+ zones. Now, after I completed Orr and went back to explore the maps that I hadn’t been through yet, they were so easy that they bored the hell out of me. The real complaint you seem to be ignoring is that when you hit 80 and finish the dungeons and story, there’s nothing left to do that’s challenging if you don’t like PvP.

My SO and I went back to a low-level zone (Harathi) cuz she needed some cooking ingredients, and we did some playing around/map completion. No, there’s not a lot of challenge to it, but there wasn’t much challenge to it when played at level vs auto-scaled, regardless. PvE in GW2 is just that way.

Here’s the trouble — the loot is lowbie stuff which sells for lowbie prices. But, it costs a couple silver to waypoint there, 1.6 silver for a repair, and so on. You’re at at least the same risk as in a 70-80 zone, but you don’t get the payoff, yet suffer lvl 80 costs.

It ends up that just like any other MMO, you’re much better off if you make a lowbie alt to do low-level content. Which would be fine, except ANet gave all this BS talk about it not being like every other MMO.

Over-promised, under-delivered, again.

Diva.4706:

I think some players are mistaken in why we have level scaling. In other level based MMOs, if you are max level and want to play with a friend that is lower level, you have to make an alt to play with them, or wait for them to grind up to your level. In GW2, you can just take your main and play with your friend.

I also see the argument that it isn’t worth playing lower content, because of low rewards. I play with friends and family lower than me all the time, and I am not doing it for rewards. I am doing it to have fun with them.

Some people are having a real hard time getting away from the “I need shinnies to have fun” mentality. For years now people have been playing games that they actually don’t enjoy, simply because it “rewards” them with pixels.

The best reward you will ever have is a great time playing with friends, everything else is fluff. This game is playground, and you never outgrow the toys.

Not necessarily. When I was in the level 60s in WoW a couple of level 85 friends ran me through the Burning Crusade dungeons. It was actually pretty fun.

Revenant.2691:

Orr and went back to explore the maps that I hadn’t been through yet, they were so easy that they bored the hell out of me.

If all you’re talking about is killing stuff, you’re right, low level areas are easy for down scaled 80s. If all you’re doing is fighting, I can see how it would be boring. I’m still finding it fun because I’m more interested in looking for hidden areas, talking to the NPCs and figuring out the story behind what’s going on, and helping out the other players in the area.

I don’t see how any game could provide infinite PvE end game content that was always challenging but not repetitive and boring, if you’re only interested in fighting mobs. PvP will always be the one thing that stays fresh combatwise, because humans are tricksy and computer AI is not.

The only way folks can get infinite replayability of a game without infinite content is if they’re playing it with other people, not just in the presence of other people. The RPers do this by using the game world as a room full of environments and props to create collaborative stories. Our guild does this by helping the lower level folks through dungeons, or setting up jumping puzzle night, or deciding that we’ve had enough of the wall phasing, flying cheaters on server X in WvW and we’re going to show them they don’t have free run of our borderlands.

If you aren’t the type to set your own goals and challenges, there will always come a point in every game where you have completed every measurable goal that the game has to offer. I think expecting it to be otherwise is unrealistic. PvE content can not be generated faster than people rushing through it can complete it.

My only gripe is this:

Why is the designated level, 2 levels above the recommended area when downleveled? Shouldn’t it be 2 levels BELOW the recommended area, as we have more Utility skills, experience, and know how to complete these task? If anything should be done about the sidekick system is that it should present you with the same threat as if you were actually suitable for that area. It’s not very fun to one-shot mobs.

Likewise I revisit low level areas just for the fun, for going through them with friends, etc. It’s near impossible for me to get bored by that. However, in order for it to appeal to more players I do see room for improvement. Some people will have fun no matter what, some people just really like shinies. The ideal is for the game to appeal to both. (and some people are never satisfied no matter what :P, that happens too)

I wouldn’t mind if downscaling affected your equipment too. I’d even like the idea of a slider (much like The World Ends With You), where you could downscale yourself some more to make things extra challenging.

As for rewards, I’d like to see them make level-appropriate drops a little more likely than they are now, so that people really feel rewarded for going into these areas again.

I’m with Revenant. It’s nice that some people don’t care about rewards, but some people do.

GW2 does have “better-stat” gear at 80, but only until you get full exotics. Exotics can be gotten with gold and Karma. I’ve not seen one drop, except from high-level zone completion rewards, but maybe someone else has. Running in lower level zones, it will take a lot longer to get the Karma or gold to gear a character than it does if in the higher level zones. My 80 (in lower level zones) rarely gets any level 80 Blue drops, never mind gold ones. “The whole game is endgame” implies that would not be the case.

My beef with downscaling is that I’m running level 80 risks (repair costs) and incurring level 80 expenses (waypoints) but I’m not getting level 80 karma rewards, renown heart rewards, or loot.

It’s like asking me to pay gold to play with friends or guildmates.

Honestly, I would do it more if they changed some of the factors above. They don’t even need to change all of them.

Read the title : NOT for rewards. If it isn’t “worth” your time, then don’t go to low zones. It is designed so you can player with others. If the replay value has nothing for you, you are done with PvE. I do agree that travel costs should be adjusted, as high travel expense is a barrier to play with others.

I really wish people could drop the gear/coin=fun thinking.

If I’m going to keep the level 80 costs in the starter zones then I should get closer to level 80 rewards for being there.

Curiously enough, the best farming zones are in the 40-60 level range, and I have a couple very profitable ones in the lower zones too.
I laugh at people who think they are stuck with Cursed Shore, GW was always about the world and not the map lvl maps.

Gratz, I know consider you smarter then most players on this game. You figured out something almost know one has rapped their mind around yet for some reason.

I don’t understand the argument of ‘exploring’ and talking to npc’s and all that sort of (fun) stuff when it comes to downscaling.

If it is NOT about fighting, than downscaling has no purpose whatsoever!

You can do all the other stuff no matter how much you outgear it all…

Now looking at what every lvl 80 is saying about downscaling, it is very clear that the system isn’t working right.
Simply because the fights are too easy.
Yes: the fights.
Downscaling has no other purpuse than to make the fights every where in the world hard for a lvl80, so that it can remain a challenge to roam around the world, regardless of level.

The system isn’t working good apparantly.
And no ammount of exploring and talking to npc’s can soften that fact.

A simple solution: let it all downscale a bit more… really can’t be that hard.
I’m actually amazed a simple scaling % like this wasn’t solved through internal testing, or at worst: during beta.

I bought this game for a very great part because of downscaling.
Because I hate to be max levle in a beautiful game world and having no challenges left if playing alone… not to mention being stuck in a zone or two at best.

Oh, and about ‘rewards’.

The costs should downscale too, than the lack of rewards will be less felt.

The difficulty scaling works well when you’re <80 in <80 gear, not so much when you’re 80 fully decked out in at least full greens. That’s a bit of a different issue though. My problem is still the half kitten reward vs. cost for level 80’s in lower zones.

Kimbald.2697:

Downscaling has no other purpuse than to make the fights every where in the world hard for a lvl80, so that it can remain a challenge to roam around the world, regardless of level.

Yeah, the fights are easy for a down scaled 80, but the aren’t as easy as if you weren’t down scaled at all. The problem with down scaling too drastically is that it prevents folks that are less skilled than you probably are from drastically over levelling the content to make it easier.

One way City of Heroes got around this was to let you set your difficulty for instances – you could up difficulty and the simulated number of players on the team. Maybe a player should be able to set their down scaling options once they hit 80 to increase the challenge.

As far as incurring level 80 costs, well I have non-existent repair bills in low level areas because the fights are so easy. To play with friends I generally have to take one way point to connect up with them and that few silver is earned back rather quickly. If the way point costs don’t scale with your actual level, then high levels just bank money in the high level zones, and use it to zoom around the low level areas to farm DEs.

I don’t find either the way point costs or the repair costs out of line – I always come out ahead after a play session.

Fair enough Phy, but when i’m below 80 I’m less interested in downscaling as a feature.
neither am i much interested as long as my gear is bad (for 80 standard), well if there would be enough 80 zones… which there aren’t it seems.

For me I start caring most about downscaling when I reached 80 and am geared up. That’s when I still want to go out in the world and face a challenge, that’s when downscaling has to kick in.
For me this is one of the biggest selling points of this game (aside liking the original GW and been looking forward to this game for years…)

The problem is “shineys” are needed to considerably increase our quality of life. In other words, you survive longer and mobs die faster if you’re in exotic than if you were wearing blues. Some mobs (trash, and even little trash like spider hatchlings take too long to kill) take too long to kill to be cost-effective, so going down to the 45-70 zones is ideal for collecting trash for profit where mobs die reasonably fast.

I follow you Pandemoniac, but if downscaling is not posing a challenge, than it loses it’s purpose I fear.
Yes, it should be risky for a lvl 80 in a lvl 20 zone…

Diva.4706:

In other level based MMOs, if you are max level and want to play with a friend that is lower level, you have to make an alt to play with them, or wait for them to grind up to your level. In GW2, you can just take your main and play with your friend.

in other MMOs doing events EVERYWHERE is not sold as endgame.

" Maybe a player should be able to set their down scaling options once they hit 80 to increase the challenge."

I agree, as long as rewards scale up accordingly (so if you remain at regular challenge you still get the mats for that level instead of silk or gossmer).

Agemnon.4608:

" Maybe a player should be able to set their down scaling options once they hit 80 to increase the challenge."

I agree, as long as rewards scale up accordingly (so if you remain at regular challenge you still get the mats for that level instead of silk or gossmer).

But what about the high level characters that have switched to a different crafting profession or are trying to take advantage of the market for low tier crafting items, but still want challenging fights? If I go into a starter land, I’m looking for jute not silk. Most of my jute has come from salvaging, so I don’t mind the lower level drops. It’s also nice for gearing up the alts.

I understand wanting the rewards to match the challenge, so I think you should get a currency bonus for upping your difficulty (karma/money/xp), but I’d rather still get at least half area appropriate drops.

Personally, I take great pleasure from one-shotting mobs, on the rare occasions that I can. It actually makes it feel like my character has finally become a legendary hero!

J Allin, like so many GW2 fans tell others, I maybe should tell you the obvious line…

‘than this maybe isn’t the game for you’

Well, of course you have plenty of reasons to like it or not
Just funny throwing out that line from the other side for a change…

GW2 advertised big on downscaling, so all we ask is that it works as advertised.

What you describe is what I did at max level in WoW for instance, there simply is no zone in WoW where a geared up max lvl can’t one-shot everything in sight.

This limits the challenge of going out in the world for me, and thus it shrinks that world to almost nowhere to go.

I bought GW2 partly because of the downscaling, and like it or not: it’s here and it’s been advertised as a major feature.
Now all it needs is some fine-tuning, and it’s rather late at that.
should have been tuned before launch, all the data was there.

Yeh it baffles me still that Anet for the last few years have been telling people that GW2 is not grind or gear centric and yet people who are into grind and endgame gear progression come to this game, create their own grind and then get upset when they have to slow down a bit.

I did a few level 3 events about half an hour ago and got 750 karma and 4 silver. It’s not bad at all for doing those events and helping newbies out. I was just waiting to do a dungeon basically.

I get that some people are into the carrot on a stick thing but they really bought the wrong game if they want that from GW2. I am with Kimbald on this one.

“What you describe is what I did at max level in WoW for instance, there simply is no zone in WoW where a geared up max lvl can’t one-shot everything in sight.”

That’s not necessarily a bad thing. I remember in WoW being 85 with full PvP epics doing the netherdrake quest chain and it was still too long and grindy, even though mobs were really easy.

Kimbald.2697:

I follow you Pandemoniac, but if downscaling is not posing a challenge, than it loses it’s purpose I fear.
Yes, it should be risky for a lvl 80 in a lvl 20 zone…

the purpose of down scaling is being able to play with new friends without leveling an alt character. That’s about it imo. Everything else is icing on the cake. It’s simply to make things so you aren’t exactly one shotting everything in existence and your friend gets limited exp.

I do agree with the scaling of rewards and possibly a difficult setting in terms of how much downscaling occurs. that would make things more interesting.

Either you’re ‘playing with your friends’ and are about as strong as they are,
or you’re a lot stronger and than it’s called ‘boosting your friends’

Downscaling is a nice social feature indeed, but it shouldmake you about as strong as a leveling character in that zone, or else I see no point.
If they fix that tuning together with the sily respawn rates, than at least at 80 you get to go somewhere else than Orrrrrrr…

It’s also worth mentioning that the lower the zone level is compared to your character level, the higher drop rates for dyes are. Want to color your character or make some bank selling dyes? Wander around a starting area for a while as a level 80.

It’s also worth mentioning that the lower the zone level is compared to your character level, the higher drop rates for dyes are. Want to color your character or make some bank selling dyes? Wander around a starting area for a while as a level 80.

Is that because you’re a higher level, or is it because those mobs have a higher chance of dropping dye’s? Or maybe it’s your ability to kill more mobs quicker.

If they can indeed adjust the droprate of dyes, of all things needed, according to your level and the zone you’re in…
than I simply don’t understand why they didn’t finetune all the rest too.

Since they already have the whole downscaling programming working, it can’t be that hard to adjust it a little here or there.
(of course it’s still lots of work by itself, but not compared to other changes)

Phy.2913:

It’s also worth mentioning that the lower the zone level is compared to your character level, the higher drop rates for dyes are. Want to color your character or make some bank selling dyes? Wander around a starting area for a while as a level 80.

Is that because you’re a higher level, or is it because those mobs have a higher chance of dropping dye’s? Or maybe it’s your ability to kill more mobs quicker.

I’m pretty sure it’s because I’m higher level. There’s really no difference in my clear speed when doing a lower-level zone when compared to one of my level, but every time I finish 100%‘ing a low-level zone, I end up with 5 or so new dyes, while leaving with no dyes is a common occurrence for 100%’ing an area that’s around my level.

Couldn’t it be because you kill more mobs than?
Not only for being stronger than when leveling, but also for not wasting time on ‘questing’ and such?

You should compare the nr of mobs you killed on both ventures, to see if there is a % increase or not.

Maybe you do, just trying to figure out what seems like a very odd thing for the dev’s to implement.

I have logged 492 hours since launch, I have 7 characters & one level 80. I have maxed out tailoring, artificing, jewelcrafting, and chef. I have barely even played any of my alts because I’m still running around doing things on my main. My husband and I really enjoy just going out and exploring the world. Even parts we’ve already done.

My Guildies and I have done dungeons, and are still working on various explorables. We get together and do events and WvW.

This game is a wonderful game. But what it has to offer may not be what you’re into. There is nothing wrong with that, different strokes for different folks. But instead of sitting around complaining how this game isn’t for you, you might consider just going to a game that does give you what you like.

I have a little over 11 gold on my main character, no it won’t buy me any exotics or anything but that’s ok I plan to eventually craft mine when I get the materials and get there on my own in my own way. Right now I sell materials from the zones I’m exploring and that helps me do ok with coin and I do map around quite a bit.

OP, the level scaling was fully intended to make each and every zone “a level 80 zone”, not just to help us play with lower level friends. It works and I think it’s a brilliant idea but not scaling loot is a real problem that seems to have escaped that criteria of a “level 80 zone”.

We’re not going to the lower level zones to make shinies or to reap gold. If the intent is to make it a viable 80 content, then that is exactly what I expect. the risks in the lower level zones are still there. you can still die pretty easily.

for example, If you die in one event, you’re going to be farming the next 4 DE to make up for it. Compare that to the level 80 zone, if I die in one event there, ok fine, I pay out ~5 silver for waypoint res and repairs, but at least I still made 6+ silver from trash drops and such. Sometimes you just break even in the 80 zone with 1 event death.

One event death in the lower zone doesn’t even break even, you’re in debt by a factor of 4 while your friend is paying low copper for his death and breaking even or earning.

That is to say the idea is good but at present, it presents a practical problem for level 80’s to be playing these areas. They need to do one of 2 things (either/or):

1. Scale our costs down to the zone if the loot is to remain zone appropriate.
2. Scale the loot to our appropriate level if the cost is to remain fixed at 80.

Both are viable solutions and in both, neither are saying “I want shinies!”.

Kimbald

Couldn’t it be because you kill more mobs than?
Not only for being stronger than when leveling, but also for not wasting time on ‘questing’ and such?

You should compare the nr of mobs you killed on both ventures, to see if there is a % increase or not.

Maybe you do, just trying to figure out what seems like a very odd thing for the dev’s to implement.

I don’t kill any more mobs than what I would have if I were leveling in that zone, so I’m pretty sure that’s not it. Considering I speed through these zones, I probably kill fewer mobs than I would if I were leveling.

Honestly, the system doesn’t seem out of place to me at all. It’s just another incentive for high-level players to do low-level content.

Oh, interesting post. Let’s see….
It’s not about shinnies.

When you’re a Lv 80 scaled down to 20, you have just as high-risk of dying like any other Lv 20, right?
Right.
When you’re in a Lv 20 area, you still pay Lv 80 cost for repairing armor, right?
Right.
When you’re in a Lv 20 area, you still pay Lv 80 cost for using waypoints, right?
Right.

So it isn’t about shinnies, but that we get terrible money (and karma), yet we still incur full Lv 80 costs.

You’ve got more traits than a Lv 20, but it’s not enough to make a difference and justify full Lv 80 costs.

I mean, take this situation:
You’re a level 80 who went back to Queensdale to play with a Lv 15 friend (alt character). Someone at the other side of the map says “Need help with champion at [This Waypoint]”. Your friend wants to go. So you go. For him, it cost 35c to travel, but for you it cost 1s89c.
Do this a few times, and it gets old quick. Specially since you don’t get good loot, don’t get full Lv 80 event rewards …

The waypoint costs would be so easy to fix. Just have them go off the scaled level of the character if you’re ’porting in zone.

That would make it a lot less bothersome, a lot less resentful players.

I totally get that not all mobs should give you top-tier crafting rares, that’s fine. Or that karma/xp will be decreased in lowbie lands. Cuz let’s face it, you’re saving a farmer’s hay bales instead of stopping the dragons, ya.

MrsAngelD.6971:

This game is a wonderful game. But what it has to offer may not be what you’re into. There is nothing wrong with that, different strokes for different folks. But instead of sitting around complaining how this game isn’t for you, you might consider just going to a game that does give you what you like.

While it’s wonderful that you’re enjoying yourself so much, it really is, that doesn’t change the fact we are discussing the downscaling here.

The reason why you go about in the low level zones will vary from player to player.
But in the end Anet promoted this game heavily with exactly that feature of downscaling.

Now it happens to be that this downscaling isn’t working exactly as promised: a lvl 80 has no challenge and is a lot stronger than a leveling character for which the zone dificulty is designed.
This defeats the purpose of downscaling. You either go all the way with it, or it leaves max lvl characters too strong for the mobs there.
There really is no in between.

What I don’t get about your post is the simple way in which you dismiss any critisism on the finetuning we’re discussing here.

Are you saying that because someone thinks the downscaling isn’t working right, that we are playing a game that’s not for us?

I state the opposite: if you think downscaling is working good, while still being too strong as 80 in lower zones, than you are not playing the game Anet promoted.
Their whole idea was to bring you down to the level of the zone, that was the pitch, not bring you ‘almost’ down.

We both know that you are not in the wrong game, but think of this for a minute please.

Kimbald.2697

While it’s wonderful that you’re enjoying yourself so much, it really is, that doesn’t change the fact we are discussing the downscaling here.
The reason why you go about in the low level zones will vary from player to player.
But in the end Anet promoted this game heavily with exactly that feature of downscaling.
Now it happens to be that this downscaling isn’t working exactly as promised: a lvl 80 has no challenge and is a lot stronger than a leveling character for which the zone dificulty is designed.
This defeats the purpose of downscaling. You either go all the way with it, or it leaves max lvl characters too strong for the mobs there.
There really is no in between.
What I don’t get about your post is the simple way in which you dismiss any critisism on the finetuning we’re discussing here.
Are you saying that because someone thinks the downscaling isn’t working right, that we are playing a game that’s not for us?
I state the opposite: if you think downscaling is working good, while still being too strong as 80 in lower zones, than you are not playing the game Anet promoted.
Their whole idea was to bring you down to the level of the zone, that was the pitch, not bring you ‘almost’ down.
We both know that you are not in the wrong game, but think of this for a minute please.

Honestly I beg to differ about the challenge, I have found quite a few challenging things in lower level zones. I’ll grant you that level scaling could use a bit of tweaking, as at level 80 the starter zones are just too easy, but in other zones I don’t find this to be the case.

But the part of my comments which you quoted were in reference to the people who were complaining about the drops not the level scaling. As somebody who wanders zones quite a lot I get plenty of drops and some of those are level appropriate, but of course not all of them. I have even received yellows for a level 80 while being down leveled.

This game isn’t meant to go out shiny hunting, it’s meant for you to go out and just have fun eventually with time and exploration you’ll get the shiney loot.

Ah, since your post was just below mine, I automatically took it as a reaction to the points I was trying to defend. Not necessarily to the exact post there, but at least a reaction to the view that downscaling needs to be there and work good.

It’s good to hear it’s not all that easy by the way, especially from someone who apparantly enjoys going out in the world a lot on her max lvl character.

To be honest: I think very little tuning can be done to make it practically perfect in every way. Which, as some may recognise, is still loads of fun too…

About the shinies: maybe the travel and repair costs for max level is just a bit too high.
Maybe a downscaled max level should take no armor damage or something in a lower zone.
Would solve most costs I think.

As for traveling costs: maybe they’re just too high for everybody, everywhere…

Kimbald.2697:

As for traveling costs: maybe they’re just too high for everybody, everywhere…

Other folks have suggested that travel to the main cities be free. I think that would cut down significantly on the travel costs without making it too attractive to just way point around instead of walk.

As for repair costs I think I figured out why I’m not seeing a problem (other than I don’t die a lot) – I’m not in exotic armor. I’m kind of embarrassed to admit it, but I’ve been ignoring my gear so completely that half my armor is just fine quality. Only my weapons are exotics. So maybe the step up in cost for repairing exotic armor is a bit too steep.

Reading over the forums I see some folks complaining how easy it is when they’re down scaled, and some folks complaining that they’re having problems. That makes me like the idea of letting folks tweak their difficulty setting individually even more. In CoH you had to talk to a reputation NPC and pay a small fee to change your difficulty setting around, so you couldn’t do it on the fly, but you weren’t stuck with your choice forever.

I do think there is an issue with the way the gear is down scaled when a level 80 has lower level gear on. I think the gear is getting down scaled according to the wearer’s level, when it should be getting down scaled according to its level. For example, if a level 80 goes into a level 25 area decked out in level 25 gear, the gear shouldn’t be down scaled. That may be the source of the folks complaining that it’s too difficult.

I know that I’ll enjoy doing lower level content more than once just to catch all the little easter eggs in the game. There are tons. Like the Star Wars, Jurassic Park and Goonies tidbits I’ve seen so far. I’m sure I’ve missed tons of them so it’ll be fun to go back once in awhile to catch some of them.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Other folks have suggested that travel to the main cities be free.

Especially since it’s already free when using the Heart of the Mist route. Not having to use that trick would merely be more convenient.

But really, for a lvl80 just waypointing to various zones in order to find one that’s populated, quickly becomes prohibitively expensive.

It seems like this thread is rather dead, but . . .

I seem to be having the opposite problem from a lot of people when it comes to the level scaling; that is, certain content is actually harder at a higher-level-scaled-down than at the proper level. In Kessex Hills, for instance, my level 55 Norn warrior has trouble facing more than one or two level 20-25 bandits or Krait (but, for some reason, I can kill centaurs all day long and survive — how is it that a puny human is more powerful speedy than a giant horse-person?). Earlier in the game, between levels 1 and 15, my warrior was able to use its “crowd-pleaser” combat moves to take out a lot of enemies, no sweat. Now, doing something like clearing a pass of level 21 bandits has me hitting the read-line almost immediately, and often dying. This totally seems to be a product of downscaling. It seems like, when the character is level-scaled, the numbers are to the lowest mean possible, as opposed to a relative state of power.

I understand that a lot of areas within a zone are meant for group-only activities; I can also see how the way level-scaling is done is there to discourage lone-gun playing after a certain point. However, that really seems like a deal-breaker for me (and a few other people I’ve talked to), especially since missions generally seem to have a really good free-form dynamic participation model.

For instance, when the Krait are kidnapping the villagers in Viathan’s Arm, I was there with four other random players, and we were still all dying . . . and we were all level-scaled (little down arrow next to the names, and everything). To me, this seems ridiculous. Four players should be able to do that mission without constantly hitting the red line. Instead, people kept dying, and having to re-spawn at the nearest waypoint (which, in that area, is about a two minute run) and spending coppers. Does it become worth it to keep dying and respawning just to tick a mission off of your docket when it keeps costing coppers and silvers (currency is also way too difficult to get in the game, but that’s another issue).

In theory, the level scaling idea is great, but it doesn’t work well in practice. Why not scale to something slightly higher and/or more robust for those people who have reached a higher level? Give higher level characters a sort-of accomplishment status over those at proper level. Nothing too major, just enough so that a more than one bandit doesn’t off your character because your defense score might as well be the equivalent of rice paper. The way it is, it basically seems like you can only do certain missions/quests (even some Renown Heart missions) if you have a party of 5-10 people in zones that are higher than level 18-or-so. This is totally ridiculous. Why not pad it a bit for higher level people, so that they can feel some sense of heroic presence in the game?

And with the dungeons, it the level scaling is especially ridiculous. Even when someone is part of a guild, it’s nearly impossible to find enough people to go into a dungeon together so that people won’t just immediately die because their level is scaled so poorly. Why not set up a queue system, like Neverwinter has, where you go to the dungeon door and sign up to go in as soon as there are 5-to-10 people who are interested? Randomly coming across that many people who are willing to work in concert seems to be a near impossibility in this game. Ugh.

Overall, I really love the world, and I really love that it’s the first MMO to really put story into the general world in a way that doesn’t seem like a second thought (WoW, though it has a lot of lore, is really lame, as far as story goes). Further, I’ll continue to play. That said, most of what I find myself doing now that I’m above level 25, is going back to low-level areas, treating them as a sandbox, and helping out other people complete missions at random. The idea of actually progressing to level 80 or whatever through the story just sound awful, if all it means is that my poorly re-scaled character just dies every time I face more than one fodder-style enemy (bandits, for instance :P ).

I know that I’m not the first person to talk about this issue. It should really be addressed. Otherwise, I’ll feel like I spent my money on a really nice, well intentioned idea, not a really great game.

P.S. Here’s a link to a pretty kitten ed good blog entry about why level scaling hurts play: http://www.devilsmmo.com/blog/guild-wars-2-diary-28-level-scaling-problem