Guild Wars 2

I searched the forum before posting this and i surprisingly did not find anything related to this topic.

But If i am going to scale down to the same level as an enemy, than what exactly is the point of working to get better? Isn’t the entire purpose of leveling to well, level?

If i am going to always be just as good as my enemies, than why does this game even have levels to begin with?

I just find this level down-scaling mind numbingly pointless. I should be able to dispatch lower level enemies with ease.

As a new player, trying to determine if i should fully invest my time into this game. I am hoping someone can re-assure me that my progress to get better is not for nothing. I very much want to enjoy this game but when i found out level 7 enemies were taking just as long to kill as level 15 enemies i am starting to have second thoughts about this game.

Actually by 80 anything below 80 (assuming you are geared) get wrecked by you.

Also there is a massive difference between fully geared level 80s, fresh level 80s and upleveled level 80s.

“If i am going to always be just as good as my enemies, than why does this game even have levels to begin with?”

As many people will come here and tell you the original GW only had 20 levels. Just enough time for you to unlock a few things and get used to the game. You are not expected to get better by having bigger numbers, you as a person are expected to get better by being more skillful at playing the game.

This game only has lvl 80 as it’s max to appeal to wider demographic of MMO gamers. You are downscaled to match the other content so that it’s not as easy as if you were level 80, because if it was then most of the map/game would be unplayable/dead content.

As you progress you will still get strong but you’ll be contained a bit in the lower maps to keep that content relative.

But i am also assuming my gear will downscale as well correct?

Right now i am a level 15 but it says my effective level is 6. I just find that totally depressing. I am not a level 6. I should be able to crush level 6 enemies

The system was actually way worse before. They at least adjusted the loot to your level. Before there would be almost no reason to go to a lower level.

I know how you feel though. Your point is well taken, especially for a new player. When you are well geared it will feel much different though. You don’t lose your gear/weapon bonuses to down leveling. Plus rewards, karma, gold and loot are scaled to your current level. This is a real nice advantage to the system.

You may never love it, but it gets better.

SpinDie.9105:

But i am also assuming my gear will downscale as well correct?

Right now i am a level 15 but it says my effective level is 6. I just find that totally depressing. I am not a level 6. I should be able to crush level 6 enemies

Your gear will downscale yes, but barely. You’ll still be one shotting kitten near everything below 60 if you are fully geared at 80 for example. You’ll still have things like runes and sigils that are not down scaled however.

The downleveling is so effective now that it if wasn’t for burrows, soloing AC at 80 would be a relaxing walk in a park.

OP: What you’re basically asking for is to be level 80 and be able to kill an enemy in a level 6 zone before someone who is level 6 can kill them, making it more difficult for people levelling their characters since we share the maps with other players. This is why there is down-scaling, so Level 80s cannot wipe out mobs before a level 3 player can even get close to them.

Edit: If anything, downscaling should be made harder for Level 80s in starter zones in my opinion!

The concept of leveling is to master your art. The more you train, the better you become and the higher level challenges you can take on. That does not however mean that something below your own level should be considered so weak that you could simply brush it off.

Take real life for example. You can “level up” a fighting skill, going from nothing to a professional, to a master. Even someone that doesn’t know anything could potentially harm a master.

The original style of leveling up was simply the result of older RPGs. In action RPGs however, we don’t actually need levels at all because you learning to play your class is the actual leveling. However, people want to see progression, hence why it can’t simply be removed.

Those low level monster die in 2 second regardless of what level you are. Assuming you max your dps. I’m not sure how it become a problem.

SpinDie this may help explain the idea behind the concept and the mechanics of dynamic scaling a bit more -

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_level_adjustment

I just dont think its very realistic or lore friendly

The entire purpose of leveling is to become triumphant. Higher level players have earned the right to be able to walk though beginner zones like their sh** don’t stink as the noobs watch in envy..

Would Michael Jordans years of basketball training just vanish because he decided to play a street game with a bunch of amateurs?

According to the wiki, the benefits of dynamic level scaling are.
1. High level characters are prevented from killing enemies too easily and depriving low level characters of rewards. (Yeah right, In all the mmorpgs ive played in my life.. Ive never had a level 80 stealing my lv1 squirrel kills. So i highly disagree with that “benefit” as those players have moved on to greater things)

2. Lower level content doesn’t become obsolete, and remains adequately challenging, even after a character has out-leveled an area. (whats the point of even traveling if i can get level 80 gear in the begginer zone? Sounds like a pretty desperate attempt at recycling old content to me)

If i am just as good as every enemy i approach. They should just do away with the level system altogether.

Ah, that classic mindset of thinking you “earned the right” once you reach ‘maximum level’. Being maximum level in this game says nothing. You can level to 80 in about 18 hours and that excludes crafting.

Nothing special, you’re not entitled to anything. Guild Wars is not that type of game. Skill matters more

About your points.
1. That are classic MMO’s, GW2 is not a classic MMO. You will find many lvl 80’s in starter zones and all around the world map doing different content.

2. You can’t find max gear in starter zones, you will definitely have to travel. Whether you want to do that or not, is all up to you.

P.S.:
When you are level 80 and get exotic / ascended gear, you will face-roll through all those starter zones anyway, even with the downscaling.

SpinDie.9105:

whats the point of even traveling if i can get level 80 gear in the begginer zone? Sounds like a pretty desperate attempt at recycling old content to me)

Well, traveling to other zone would allow you to… play other zones.

your statement makes no sense at all… the fact that you don’t feel need to explore the other zones to experience their variety means they’re recycling content? what?

SpinDie.9105:

If i am just as good as every enemy i approach. They should just do away with the level system altogether.

You’re not. You only get downscaled in PvE, not upscaled. walk into a level 30 zone with your level 15 character and you’ll quickly see that levels matter.

I don’t think this game is for you, you don’t seem very interested in appreciating the content for its own sake.

Besides, when you’re 80, the early zones ARE silly easy and you ARE much too powerful for their difficulty. The downscaling just ensures you one-or-sometimes-two-hit monsters and not perform 9.000.000.000 dmg overkills. So what’s the difference?

I agree, they should do away with the leveling system. It is only their to give people a goal to stick around for until they get hooked into the game.

1. World bosses and champion mobs spawn in these low level areas too, the world bosses often drop their own specific loot. So it stands to sense that everyone can have a go at killing them. When the game first came out and before they events scaling and player scaling were properly worked out they world bosses died before a caster could target them – under a second. No joke, I’m sure there are still videos of it.

2. I wouldn’t call it desperate and it’s certainly not recycling since you’ll probably only have seen 30% of the map by the time your lvl 80. It’s just being efficient at game design.

SpinDie.9105:

The entire purpose of leveling is to become triumphant.

Incorrect. The entire purpose of leveling is to give MMO players a sense of progression, not a sense of being triumphant. Progression does not have to mean one’s ego gets stroked, just that there is a sense of having attained something. So, in GW2 progression means that you open up skill slots, traits, etc.

You also get access to better gear, which over time will make more of a difference while you are down-leveled. If you’re level 15 and are not finding level 7 mobs easier to dispatch than when you were level 7, you might look to progressing your gear, or your skills.

SpinDie.9105:

According to the wiki, the benefits of dynamic level scaling are.
1. High level characters are prevented from killing enemies too easily and depriving low level characters of rewards. (Yeah right, In all the mmorpgs ive played in my life.. Ive never had a level 80 stealing my lv1 squirrel kills. So i highly disagree with that “benefit” as those players have moved on to greater things)

2. Lower level content doesn’t become obsolete, and remains adequately challenging, even after a character has out-leveled an area. (whats the point of even traveling if i can get level 80 gear in the begginer zone? Sounds like a pretty desperate attempt at recycling old content to me)

1. Level 80’s do play in low level zones. I have 12 level 80 characters. Some of them have never set foot in some of the starter zones so if I decided to do mapping on those characters I’d need to go into those low level zones. Also if I’m helping lower levelled friends to level up then it’s better that I’m level appropriate and not nuking everything in sight. Admittedly I still do nuke most things but not as much as if I wasn’t scaled down. Oh yeah and there are 4 world bosses in low level areas. Every now and then I like to hop on the World Boss Express so if you had 25 level 80’s all at level 80 hitting a world boss I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t last long enough to be worthwhile.

2. Because the gear you can get there is not the top notch best gear. Most of that is crafted and you simply can’t get the materials in the low level zones. Above I mentioned mapping. To craft a legendary weapon you need to get 100% map completion and earn the “Gift of Exploration”.

Whenever i run around the map the green scaling number next to my rank constantly changes a dozen times a minute.. So why do i even have a rank if it means absolutely nothing?

Amongst all the hive-mentality attacks toward my argument, i have seen very few arguments that actually shed light on why this system makes more sense than the traditional the mmo system. Because quite simply it does not.

If the developers don’t see how contradictory it is to downscale players in a leveling game, then i am sure i will run into a hailstorm of other stupid developer choices as well (like their choice to incorportate sci-fi blue nano-teleports over the traditional riding of horses, or their choice of dividing players up into multiple map instances on a single server, or their choice to charge $30 for a mere server change)

So far i am level 15 and i have never been exposed to such mindless PVE quests in my entire life. All i have done so far is set traps in the woods, taken care of peoples farms, and escorted an ox shipment repeatedly. Playing this game is torture.

So you are right, i don’t think this game is for me

SpinDie.9105:

Whenever i run around the map the green scaling number next to my rank constantly changes a dozen times a minute.. So why do i even have a rank if it means absolutely nothing?

Amongst all the hive-mentality attacks toward my argument, i have seen very few arguments that actually shed light on why this system makes more sense than the traditional the mmo system. Because quite simply it does not.

If the developers don’t see how contradictory it is to downscale players in a leveling game, then i am sure i will run into a hailstorm of other stupid developer choices as well (like their choice to incorportate sci-fi blue nano-teleports over the traditional riding of horses, or their choice of dividing players up into multiple map instances on a single server, or their choice to charge $30 for a mere server change)

So far i am level 15 and i have never been exposed to such mindless PVE quests in my entire life. All i have done so far is set traps in the woods, taken care of peoples farms, and escorted an ox shipment repeatedly. Playing this game is torture.

So you are right, i don’t think this game is for me

Well no worries. Best of luck wherever you end up. Usually we’d ask for your stuff but as you’re level 15 and have nothing of worth I think I’ll skip that this time.

SpinDie.9105:

I just find this level down-scaling mind numbingly pointless. I should be able to dispatch lower level enemies with ease.

Unlike other games, in GW2 the higher the level the more content you have available for you. Each time you level up more content is added to your pool of available content which is a great way to have all the map viable at all levels. Down-scaling is one of the best mechanics in this game, keeping the entire map viable for max level characters, or at least more viable than in other games when anything below max level is pointless once you reach cap, wasting most of the game’s content.

Down-scaling is simply brilliant, you don’t like it for unknown reasons, if you can’t dispatch lower level enemies as a higher level one, I suggest you take a look at your gear, gear stats are downscaled too (for obvious reasons) so if you are level 15 with level 2 gear you are probably at a worst position than a real level 2…

SpinDie.9105:

Amongst all the hive-mentality attacks toward my argument, i have seen very few arguments that actually shed light on why this system makes more sense than the traditional the mmo system. Because quite simply it does not.

Is having the ENTIRE map viable for someone that reached max level a viable argument for you? Or you just want to do one raid after the other once you reach max level to grind for the next best gear disregarding the rest of the game?

I like being able to play with my friends. If a friends gets the game and wants to complete a map, I don’t necessarily have to go and make a brand new character and doggedly ‘lock’ that character to my friends progression to continue playing together. I can just grab any of my existing characters and play. No fuss. Easy.

I can also play through any content on the map that I want to do, regardless of level, and it’ll still be rewarding.

What I can’t do is ruin all the lowbies’ day by one shotting all their mobs and bosses (mostly, anyway, crits do have a habit of insta splatting some types of mobs in the 1-15 zones). However, I still feel ridiculously powerful in the easier zones when walking around as a properly geared/traited level 80.

Essentially, GW2 is an co-operative MMO. Other MMOs are single player experiences with other people around you playing their own single player experience (until the laughably termed ‘real game’ starts at max level. I will personally never waste dozens of hours of my life to start enjoying a game). Therefore this game is far more about being able to play with others, with the mechanics reflecting that. I think every co-op game with levels should have this system!

One thing I should note though: why are you expecting to feel like a god at level 15? You’ve been playing the game for, what, 2-3 hours at most? o.O Combat should still feel challenging wherever you go, since you’re still but a mere novice adventurer :P If you want immersion, why would a ‘hero’ that has barely beaten up a few Centaurs and Bandits feel as powerful as those that have fought foes that threaten the entire world?

Implementing downscaling as a means to keep zones alive seems shallow and unimaginative.

In order and chaos on ios (trust me its just as deep if not more sophisticated than many pc mmorpgs ive played) they keep all continents active by

1. Each continent has a lv.60 dungeon as well as lv.60 world events. (with different difficulties so level 20’s and 40’s can enjoy them as well)
2. Unique mounts that only appear for capture in certain continents/biomes.
3. A new unique set of endgame daily quests that take place in each continent.
4. Soul dailies that take place in each continent.
5. Pvp zones in each continent
6. a main community hub in each continent
There is not one continent in order and chaos more populated than the next. There are people everywhere unlike GW2 which seems empty as far as i’ve seen.

They don’t need to push players into replaying old areas by nerfing their abilties..

And the whole “to keep low level enemies a challenge” argument is rich..
Who in their right mind actually enjoys fighting the environment-filler npcs in an mmorpg? We do it because we have to..

SpinDie.9105:

We do it because we have to..

Who are those “we” you’re talking about?

Did someone mention that the scaling got nerfed with the april patch as well? Before that the scaling was more effective and playing in lower level zones could be dangerous for a fully geared 80 if not cautious. I liked it better that way as I had more game than now.

Jana.6831:

Did someone mention that the scaling got nerfed with the april patch as well? Before that the scaling was more effective and playing in lower level zones could be dangerous for a fully geared 80 if not cautious. I liked it better that way as I had more game than now.

Yeah, me too. The <80 zones are much easier for downscaled people since the trait changes. Kind of sad, it makes them really boring.

SpinDie.9105:

Whenever i run around the map the green scaling number next to my rank constantly changes a dozen times a minute..

Obvious exaggeration does not really add credibility.

SpinDie.9105:

So why do i even have a rank if it means absolutely nothing?.

This question cannot be answered because it is based on an inaccurate premise. Your level does mean something.

SpinDie.9105:

Amongst all the hive-mentality attacks toward my argument,

Disagreeing with you is neither an indication of hive mentality nor of an attack.

SpinDie.9105:

i have seen very few arguments that actually shed light on why this system makes more sense than the traditional the mmo system. Because quite simply it does not.

Your inability to see something does not mean that it does not exist

SpinDie.9105:

If the developers don’t see how contradictory it is to downscale players in a leveling game, then i am sure i will run into a hailstorm of other stupid developer choices as well (like their choice to incorportate sci-fi blue nano-teleports over the traditional riding of horses, or their choice of dividing players up into multiple map instances on a single server, or their choice to charge $30 for a mere server change)

Your understanding of the game, its lore, and its systems seems to be flawed. A proper response to this post would be sufficiently time and effort intensive that instead I will suggest you do a bit more reading on your own. One tidbit that you might find interesting is that you do not have to spend $30 for a server change.

SpinDie.9105:

So far i am level 15 and i have never been exposed to such mindless PVE quests in my entire life. All i have done so far is set traps in the woods, taken care of peoples farms, and escorted an ox shipment repeatedly.

You are skipping most of the game, the interesting portions in particular.

To Anet: Is this how the NPE is supposed to work ?

You should be able to kill everything in starter zones as a 15 in 11 blues or green 14’s.

There are no longer any champs (with SB like exceptions) and the veteran mobs were weakened.

Just be careful in places like Bandit camp. Tons of low level mobs with lots of condition damage can be dangerous to even a down leveled 80.

SpinDie.9105:

Whenever i run around the map the green scaling number next to my rank constantly changes a dozen times a minute.. So why do i even have a rank if it means absolutely nothing?

Amongst all the hive-mentality attacks toward my argument, i have seen very few arguments that actually shed light on why this system makes more sense than the traditional the mmo system. Because quite simply it does not.

The system is there so that you are more than sufficiently powerful once you get to a higher level to smack mobs while not gutting the map of all mobs that other players need/want to kill.

This also allows players to join up even though they are highly dis-separate in level. One @ 35 with rare gear will contribute more to killing a vet in a 1-15 zone but his fellows at even lower level will still get a few swings in and thus also get credit for the kill. This is even more in evidence when doing group event together. It’s more about balancing the combat ability (dps/cc/condi/def) between old and new players in the same group/event.

Even at mid range level (i.e. 30-50) you can go on a 1-15 map and 2 shot most things lower than you assuming you have eq. gear and trinkets equipped. I’m sure that should satisfy your need to “lord” it over all the poor nubies. (Seriously? Are you compensating for an inferiority complex or something?)

SpinDie.9105:

So far i am level 15 and i have never been exposed to such mindless PVE quests in my entire life. All i have done so far is set traps in the woods, taken care of peoples farms, and escorted an ox shipment repeatedly. Playing this game is torture.

So you are right, i don’t think this game is for me

Only because you refuse to except that you are not lord all and be all of the lower level players. Not only that but you haven’t even done much of the game to be totally honest. Level 15 and still in the starter area is like 5% of the game, at most.

Yeah, this game might not be for you. It’s based on helping, sharing, community, and the joy of killing things whether easy or ubber challenging in various solo and group ways.

Good luck in you next game.

Sounds like you should just stick the the iOS game(s) you mentioned.

What an awesome read!

I wanna join in!!!

A New player who has played a few hours is already complaining about; No open world PvP, no mounts, no special daily and more. And the topic is Level scaling in PvE.

I would want you to try the game more before you complain and try to enjoy the game with a new mindset of a new kind of MMO (as it is) and not the old usuall MMO’s that we all have played and left becouse of boredom of same old same old.

If you do not like it, I must say as some others have… Guild Wars 2 is not for you, level scaling has been atleast since release and it is a wonderfull and working concept.

Scaling players levels down in a game that is centered around leveling up is ridiculous regardless of what anybody says.

Its like running up the endless staircase in mario64, you get nowhere.

I forget what interview it was, but on a gamespot video two developers and two gamespot emplyees were all sitting around a couch and someone asked “Its not one of those games where you can get killed by a level1 boar at the end of the game right?” and they all started laughing and the developers said “No its not one of those games”

and the reason they laughed is because it is ridiculous and it is stupid. I rest my case.

He rests his case. People laughed. I guess we’re done here, right? ;D

yes it was never actually a discussion just me informing you guys that it is ridiculous (sarcasm)

Asmodeus.5782:

He rests his case. People laughed. I guess we’re done here, right? ;D

Hehe, no I am not done

SpinDie.9105:

Scaling players levels down in a game that is centered around leveling up is ridiculous regardless of what anybody says.

Its like running up the endless staircase in mario64, you get nowhere.

I forget what interview it was, but on a gamespot video two developers and two gamespot emplyees were all sitting around a couch and someone asked “Its not one of those games where you can get killed by a level1 boar at the end of the game right?” and they all started laughing and the developers said “No its not one of those games”

and the reason they laughed is because it is ridiculous and it is stupid. I rest my case.

Many have gave you good reasons to have levels in the game but it seems like you don’t want to see it (Or read it).

Almost each level unlocks something new for you to do, new skills, new story and new stuff to visit and do.
At level 30 you start to learn the basics of traiting you character and from there you will earn more traits as you level up.
For each level you as a player will learn how to play the game.
If you run to far you will end up in zones where levels are higher than you and you may end up with a mouth full.
In my opinion, when you are level 80 in this game the Tutorial is over and the game begins.

About your last statement… Well if you are a few levels over a level one creature and you die, iether you are realy bad or you are using level one gear. So if you have read what a few people has said before. Gear does difference, dont be blinded by the numbers of your level but if you are high level at a low level area your gear does alot of difference if you use gear for your level. So … A level one Boar can not kill a level 80 player.

cause having only the level 80 maps for playing really seems like a great design…

SpinDie.9105:

Scaling players levels down in a game that is centered around leveling up is ridiculous regardless of what anybody says.

STOP. PLAYING. IN. STARTER. AREAS.

Move on to the next level areas and you will see that leveling does matter in GW2.

The defense rests.

Peace.

tbh, I’ve just stopped visiting early zones in April, after they’ve been made as easy as they are today.

SpinDie.9105:

Scaling players levels down in a game that is centered around leveling up is ridiculous regardless of what anybody says.

Its like running up the endless staircase in mario64, you get nowhere.

Have you tried moving on to the next map? It gets harder and you actually get somewhere!

It seems like you have only been playing for a few hours. As others have said already, you are basically in a tutorial until you get into the real meat of the game at 80.

But, by looking at your responses, it doesn’t appear that you overly care about that. Enjoy your iOS games.

Ashen.2907:

To Anet: Is this how the NPE is supposed to work ?

Really?

This has nothing to do with NPE and all to do with a player wanting to walk around in the starter zone(s) and instagib mobs like he is a god. Clear areas by just targeting them from 2000 away since he’s all of level 15.

That he has to do the same events while ignoring the fact that he is in a starter area and should move on. No, he expects to glow like the sun and all the noobs bow to him as some kind of mighty hand of death, since he’s level 15 and all. He shouldn’t be “down leveled” he should be unstoppable and …

Ah the heck with it. I just can’t figure some people out.

Peace.

SpinDie.9105:

Scaling players levels down in a game that is centered around leveling up is ridiculous

well there’s your problem right there… that’s not what this game is centered around at all.

If you want a treadmill game where you get a big ego from big numbers and always work to get bigger numbers then GW2 isn’t for you. The down scaling is about playing the game and enjoying the content, either on your own or with friends of any level. At level 80 all game content is still open to you, you can play with anyone, and you can try anything. Levels are about separating people and why should the game separate people who want to play together?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

SpinDie.9105:

Scaling players levels down in a game that is centered around leveling up is ridiculous

well there’s your problem right there… that’s not what this game is centered around at all.

Bingo. GW2 might not even have levels if it weren’t for the desire to appeal to the wider market of MMO players.

If the OP is still around I’m genuinely curious. A lot of your argument comes from the fact that you can’t one-shot overkill monsters half your level. But…in a traditional MMO why would you even bother doing that in the first place? You won’t get XP, lots of them won’t even give you loot for one-shotting underlevel mobs. So why? Just to give you a weird power trip?

Well if it’s just to see big numbers and feel superior you can still do that in GW2. You might not have noticed them but there’s lots of small white/gray named mobs around that you can one shot at any level. They’re called “ambient creatures” and there’s even achievements for slaughtering them.

Yes, you’re stomping on bugs and kicking bunnies, but that’s just GW2’s way of more accurately illustrating what you’re doing in other MMO’s when you attack underleveled creatures.

Yeah the OP probably should just stop playing. You are obviously not interested learning about the different aspect of this non-classic MMO, its mechanics, or its lore.

I love the level scaling. I have a fun challenge no matter what map I go on. I can either go to Or for lv80s or chill in Queensdale escorting pact bulls. Either way, I win.

Honestly, I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not. If you don’t like the game, there is nothing we can do for you. Go play your iOS games I suppose /:

SpinDie.9105:

I just dont think its very realistic or lore friendly

The entire purpose of leveling is to become triumphant. Higher level players have earned the right to be able to walk though beginner zones like their sh** don’t stink as the noobs watch in envy..

Would Michael Jordans years of basketball training just vanish because he decided to play a street game with a bunch of amateurs?

You’re absolutely right, it would be so much more lore friendly and realistic to not have level scaling!

“Valiant Gwenthyleddy was a seasoned adventurer, but after traveling for weeks in Orr, she was attacked by risen, was caught off her guard and was seriously wounded. Fortunately, she survived, and headed back to the Grove to rest and to heal her wounds. After some time, she headed out to Caledon forest to pick up beautiful flowers. Suddenly, a host of risen shuffled from the sea! Gwenthyleddy was unarmed, and considered running away, when she remembered she was experienced and strong! So, she stared at the hammer of the risen norn towering above him, and laughed as the hammerhead bounced off her forehead harmlessly. A dozen risen asura gnawed at her feet, but it was merely a tickling sensation because of Gwenthyleddy’s overbearing experience. She found herself to be bored, and poked her pinky finger at the risen assaulting her. The vile undead exploded into a gory shower from the force of her mastery and experience, and Gwenthyleddy was able to walk back home safely. The end. "

Can I laugh at you now?

SpinDie.9105:

As a new player, trying to determine if i should fully invest my time into this game. I am hoping someone can re-assure me that my progress to get better is not for nothing.

You get more skills up to level 36, which will make you better. And then you’re also supposed to start getting traits too but they kind of ruined traits so from level 36 to 80 you don’t get much.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

SpinDie.9105:

Scaling players levels down in a game that is centered around leveling up is ridiculous

well there’s your problem right there… that’s not what this game is centered around at all.

Uhhh well I mean you kinda HAVE to level up if you want to unlock trait points, and traits are a huge part of character building, so it kind of is…

I respect all of your wrong opinions, but the very definition of a level is to discern one from the next. If you make them all the same just defeats the purpose