Guild Wars 2

The way level scaling is currently designed, it makes players fight against their own level. Every time you level up in Guild Wars 2, you lose stats in downscaled areas, and it’s getting really silly. This game acts like an anti-RPG. Instead of leveling up making you more powerful, all it does it make you weaker and you have to get gear to compensate. The next time you’re leveling your character, go into an area where you are downscaled (or upscaled) and level up. All of your stats will drop significantly.

I tried a few tests to see just how wonky it is. They were inspired by this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y_7iBht0ms

Level 4 engineer in starter gear using pistol 1 against a level 2 doe: ~13-14 damage per shot.

If I take my level 80 engineer into the same area wearing starter gear, and he’s downscaled to level 4 but still has 30 points in power traits (+300 power), he hits for 3 damage per shot. There’s something really wrong here. I know being a high level shouldn’t let you completely steamroll low-level content, but your level shouldn’t be a penalty either.

So I went and figured out exactly how downscaling works. It’s like this:

Let R = (base power stat at effective level) / (base power stat at core level).
Multiply all stats by R.

Note that you can also use base precision, or toughness, or vitality for R since those are all the same base value.

So what’s the problem with this approach? There are two issues:
1) Base stats grow faster than stats on gear as the game progresses. This means that when downscaled as a high level, your stats will be lower than that of someone at the zone’s level can achieve, regardless of how well-geared you are. You see those people who demand level 80s for Ascalonian Catacombs? They’re actually demanding weaker characters. Apply the formula and see for yourself.

2) Downscaling totally ignores the gear you’re wearing, and applies the ratio to your total stats. This is why leveling up in a downscaled zone reduces all of your stats. Assuming you can always immediately have the best gear available for your level when you level up, then gaining a level won’t hurt you. But this is obviously not the case.

Solutions: There are a couple of approaches…
1) Diminishing returns on stats based on effective level. With DR for downscaled zones, gaining a level theoretically wouldn’t drop your stats.

2) Probably a better approach: Scale all gear individually. Rather than applying the ratio to all of a character’s total stats, just cap each piece of gear depending on the player’s effective level. For example, let’s suppose we have a level 80 character in a level 50 zone.

- Character has a level 80 ascended berserker’s amulet: The best rarity for a level 50 zone is rare (yellow), which has lower stats than level 80 ascended. So cap the level 80 ascended amulet at rare level 50 stats.

- Character has a level 40 masterwork helmet: The helmet’s stats are lower than what is available for the effective level (level 50 rare), so don’t scale it down.

Solution (2) would stop characters from losing a significant amount of stats by leveling up, and it would still keep the game fairly challenging as a high level character cannot harness rarities above what the zone would normally offer.

Issues with upscaling
Upscaling is also fundamentally flawed. I want you to look at the attached screenshot in WvW of me being upscaled. Something isn’t right here. Look at my stats. Can you see what’s wrong?

I’m not sure how you worked that formula out and I admit I haven’t tried to track or calculate actual numbers but I have to say my personal experience has been the complete opposite. I find everything easier on a down-levelled character than one at the intended level. To the point where I’ll sometimes deliberately leave things I know I find hard (like the last part of the street rat personal story arc) until I’m 5+ levels above it.

Hahahahahaha, that first post was a great laugh after all those months obliterating low level zones with level 80 characters. I was like “oh my God, did I accidentally log into the wrong forum?”. Haha, pretty nice, dude, keep it up.
EDIT: oh, especially the part about the Ascalonian Catacombs and the weaker characters… Hilarious.

ridiculous, you destroy everything when downscaled with a lvl 80 toon. I actually didn´t check your formulas, anecdotal evidence – lot´s of it – is enough for me. No, downscaling is fine. Basic gear on lvl 80s? yeah, sure.

Level scaling is FINE at level 80 if you are appropriately geared then you kill mobs in low level areas quite easily.

The reason downscaled characters have lower base stats than characters of that level: Because the downscaled character can wear equipment with higher stats. Rather than try to downscale the gear as well as the player, they simply decrease the base stats of the character more to compensate.

The reason upscaled characters have higher base stats than level 80 characters:
The opposite of the above. A character upscaled to level 80 cannot wear level 80 equipment. So they increase the character’s base stats more to compensate.

It’s not a perfect system, downscaled characters in full exotic gear are still far more powerful than their at-level counterparts. Whereas upscaled characters tend to be much weaker than level 80 characters, because they cannot equip the same high level gear.

Um, I don’t really understand it, because as a Lv80, I wreak havoc in starter zones. You may be doing something wrong if you’re Lv80 and having problem at starter zones..

Tulki.1458:

If I take my level 80 engineer into the same area wearing starter gear..

Stopped reading there.

The scaling system is intended to work for real gameplay, i.e. real characters with real gear.

If you attempt to deliberately break it by using gear 79 levels under-level, obviously you’re going to get ridiculous results. You should think yourself lucky that your level 80 wasn’t doing negative damage.

Go to a starter zone with a real level 80 – not necessarily a full exotic Zerker geared one, just wearing average level 70-something green gear – and you will roflstomp through the low level mobs like crazy.

Tulki.1458:

The way level scaling is currently designed, it makes players fight against their own level.

Thaaaaaaaaaat’s entirely the point, to make it a good challenge all the time.

Put your trait points in.

Banquetto.9521:

Tulki.1458:

If I take my level 80 engineer into the same area wearing starter gear..

Stopped reading there.

The scaling system is intended to work for real gameplay, i.e. real characters with real gear.

If you attempt to deliberately break it by using gear 79 levels under-level, obviously you’re going to get ridiculous results. You should think yourself lucky that your level 80 wasn’t doing negative damage.

This ^^

I can’t imagine that Anet ever thought for a moment someone would seriously try something so mind-blowingly bizzare and post the results as a serious study of game mechanics.

I like being challenged at low level even if I’m normally a lv 80 one. It’s funnier o__O

The OP makes a fuss about something he created himself. Nobody levels up without gearing up unless they are some masochist or something.

It’s not realistic to exclude gear from the calculation. Gear is particularly powerful in downscaling because the effects of gear are so significant. As you level up, especially compared to the start level, you get more pieces of gear first of all. That means that a level 3 characte doesn’t have shoulders, a helmet or any trinkets (except the bonus one you might get). That means a lot more sources of stats you don’t have at low level.

Secondly as gear goes up in levels it also gets more stat slots per item. Where a low item might have a +4 power on it as a single stat slot, higher pieces have multiple slots.

Then there is the addition of the traits and more versatility of skills and you are a virtual killer machine in low level areas. I can kill level 4 mobs with my level 80 guardian even when leveled down with 1 whirlwind attack. That’s how powerful a level 80 is when downleveled.

Why would Anet make their life more difficult with trying to make downleveling more relative to your actual level rather than gear? It’s not needed because you are OP just the same in lowby areas and no one at level 80 still wears starter gear.

Or in short: your comparison is not realistic.

Don’t fix what ain’t broken. Level scaling is working fine.

level scaling is working ok if you have your char fully geared.

Level scaling is a great idea, but downscaling is anti-RPG akittens core, and some things like necromancer lich form really just dont work downscaled

Personally I would like to see some sort of ‘hard mode’ from gw1 implemented in gw2, all the zones are brought up to 80.