Guild Wars 2

I have two level 80s, a Necro and a Guardian. I remember thinking getting them to max was some of the smoothest leveling I’d ever done in an MMO. I can’t remember ever wanting to speed things up, I just played the game and my characters got better as I played. Easy.

I’m working on a Thief now. She’s level 37. She’s as beautiful and awesome as my other toons, and I love most of the Thief mechanics. But the NPE hit soon after I started her, and this leveling experience is much different than before. It’s worse, much worse.

At 37, I’m finding myself just wanting to push to 80 just so I can start opening things up for my toon. Levels come and go with very little impact. It’s a drag.

Apparently you don’t get skill points every level now, but in bunches every few levels. Or something. Trait points are only awarded after multiple levels, but then you have to unlock the traits through events or… skill points. Which now come primarily from skill challenges?

I can see some of these changes being designed to keep level 80 players engaged longer. I guess you get skill points every “level” after 80, like all levels used to get before. But this is really sucking for leveling up a toon. Leveling is simply boring. Too many levels come and go without being able to add new skills or traits.

These games are about carrots on sticks, and the carrots were minimal before. Now they’re wilted. I can’t even play ahead in my personal story, because those missions now only unlock when Anet decides I should be “ready.”

Ugh, I love this game but I think Anet has really gone off the deep end and needs to do some serious thinking about how to make leveling up a character fun again.

We need to be able to make a significant improvement to our toons EVERY LEVEL.

And while we’re at it: it’s time for new weapons, the ability to add new skills to weapons, some kind of meaningful impact on our toons related to personal story choice and god selection…

“God selection” – sorry, I play and think in terms of humans. You get the point.

Well they decided to make this game similar to the version in China. I’m not sure if they realized how controversial these toning down/removing things from starter areas changes feel to the community in US/Europe and instead some publisher suit guy might have had impact on these changes, feels like this anyways to me. Hopefully I’m wrong about this.

I’m sure there are plenty people liking this New Player Experience but leveling was smoother before because there wasn’t restrictions like there is now.

You’re a little late to the party. Free trial started yesterday, it should be interesting to see if these changes pay off.

The trait changes weren’t part of the NPE, though they’ve certainly received a ton of complaining, nonetheless. If I set aside the whole trait thing, I don’t feel like the NPE is really any slower than what the experience was like before it. The whole skill-point-chunk thing is incredibly dumb to me, but after the early levels (where you can spend 1 point per skill) I imagine I probably spend my skill points in chunks anyway for the most part.

I find it hurting me most during that first part where I just want a single frikkin point and I’m waiting on some stupid chunk.

I mean, it sounds to me like the main parts that are annoying to you are the trait changes (happened months ago) and the skill changes (part of the NPE). And I would agree that both were rather shortsighted – trying to accomplish one thing at the (likely unwitting) expense of other things.

The NPE itself levels you about as fast as it used to. Trait gain is by far the most annoying thing in the game right now. It’s not the end of the world if you focus on it but a lot of us don’t want to focus when leveling. We want to go where we want and do what we want…especially the tenth time through.

Vayne.8563:

The NPE itself levels you about as fast as it used to. Trait gain is by far the most annoying thing in the game right now. It’s not the end of the world if you focus on it but a lot of us don’t want to focus when leveling. We want to go where we want and do what we want…especially the tenth time through.

I feel kinda embarrassed for Anet every time I level an alt with the existing trait system. 9 times out of 10 I have wasted trait points that I’m not using because I haven’t actually unlocked anything in a tree I want to use (or I haven’t unlocked anything in X spot period) and I have zero motivation to go pay through the nose for a trait that I may not even like.

I’ve been leveling an Ele recently and I find myself just going through and picking up all of the 1-point-in “free bonus” initial traits. They’re probably more useful than the crappy few that I’ve unlocked naturally through gameplay.

Sadface.

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

The NPE itself levels you about as fast as it used to. Trait gain is by far the most annoying thing in the game right now. It’s not the end of the world if you focus on it but a lot of us don’t want to focus when leveling. We want to go where we want and do what we want…especially the tenth time through.

I feel kinda embarrassed for Anet every time I level an alt with the existing trait system. 9 times out of 10 I have wasted trait points that I’m not using because I haven’t actually unlocked anything in a tree I want to use (or I haven’t unlocked anything in X spot period) and I have zero motivation to go pay through the nose for a trait that I may not even like.

I’ve been leveling an Ele recently and I find myself just going through and picking up all of the 1-point-in “free bonus” initial traits. They’re probably more useful than the crappy few that I’ve unlocked naturally through gameplay.

Sadface.

It’s good that when you do get those traits, you can respec for free anywhere you happen to be out of combat.

Yesterday I took an alt in WvW, and I ended up unlocking 3 traits. I killed a giant in Hirathi and unlocked another. It was pretty cool on that level.

But it still sucks. lol

Vayne.8563:

It’s good that when you do get those traits, you can respec for free anywhere you happen to be out of combat.

Yesterday I took an alt in WvW, and I ended up unlocking 3 traits. I killed a giant in Hirathi and unlocked another. It was pretty cool on that level.

But it still sucks. lol

Yeah, there is that. It beats the way some games do respeccing. I aspire to one day have all of my traits unlocked on a character, so that I can utilize the free respeccing to its fullest LOL.

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

It’s good that when you do get those traits, you can respec for free anywhere you happen to be out of combat.

Yesterday I took an alt in WvW, and I ended up unlocking 3 traits. I killed a giant in Hirathi and unlocked another. It was pretty cool on that level.

But it still sucks. lol

Yeah, there is that. It beats the way some games do respeccing. I aspire to one day have all of my traits unlocked on a character, so that I can utilize the free respeccing to its fullest LOL.

I’m 100% sure changes are being made to not only the trait system, but other things about leveling alts. Colin let something slip in a thread, but of course, he wasn’t ready to talk about it.

Edit: Also if you have to complete a zone for a trait, the new content guide does help take the sting out of it.

Five months of “This is ridiculously bad” and we did finally get a “We know this exists and you would like an answer,” so that’s progress. I almost hope whatever person authorized these Trait changes gets pelted with Post-It Notes and jeered at every time they walk into the office. “Got any more bright ideas? I know! How about we randomly re-name everyone’s characters! No, no, what if we make the Elementalist a purely healing class? That’s a great idea, right? Forget it. Go get the coffee and donuts and leave the design to the adults. You had your shot and you irritated a vast swath of our player base. Maybe we’ll let you write some NPC dialogue. One sentence. I take my coffee half-and-half. Go.”

Obviously this is bitterness talking, but honestly, if people in a normal workplace makes a change that is universally loathed, without even the benefit of some rationalization (“We’re making you log in to a different domain to access a more central network share and more robust Exchange server,” “We’re recalling your vehicle because it can explode and kill you,” “We’re banning perfume because Gladys stinks to high heaven and no one wants to work in an Abercrombie and Fitch when they’re older than 22.”), those people would have some answering to do by the powers that be. Again, even Micro$oft realized that Windows 8 was a bad idea and is dropping much of what people hated for 9. See also: Windows ME, Windows Vista. It’s called listening to your customers.

Unless of course, ANet doesn’t like money and is trying to devalue their stock so that they’re more attractive to companies who may want to buy them out.

Vayne.8563:

It’s good that when you do get those traits, you can respec for free anywhere you happen to be out of combat.

Yesterday I took an alt in WvW, and I ended up unlocking 3 traits. I killed a giant in Hirathi and unlocked another. It was pretty cool on that level.

But it still sucks. lol

I dunno ‘bout you, but I like to think of it like a tip of the hat to GW1’s elite skill system which required you to hunt down certain bosses to get (or pay to unlock and use a tome to learn). So in that sense, I’m not as upset about it; although I am still very grateful for the toons that I have that are grandfathered in.

Vayne.8563:

I’m 100% sure changes are being made to not only the trait system, but other things about leveling alts. Colin let something slip in a thread, but of course, he wasn’t ready to talk about it.

Edit: Also if you have to complete a zone for a trait, the new content guide does help take the sting out of it.

Yeah, I do have faith that it’ll get a proper rework eventually.

Personally, I find the changes for the better. I always leveled the way the NPE plays out, so most of the changes are just a bonus while the other stuff doesn’t affect me. The only downside is now I can’t follow the personal story to decide on which zone I should go to next, since that step of the personal story is now in the next chapter.

Unlocking traits needs to change however. The implementation is okay, but the basic traits need to be obtainable while leveling and preferably without interrupting your leveling experience. Each trait needs to offer either a generic challenge that can be done anywhere or account for each zone at that level range as well as offer specific options for solo, group and WvW gameplay. To reduce the overload, all pre-grandmaster traits should unlock at the same time, for example, completing one challenge would unlock all #1 minor traits. Simple stuff like doing a specific heart, completing 10 events in a zone, doing a specific personal story step, killing 100 whatevers, cleansing or applying 50 conditions, reviving 50 people, dealing over X damage in a single hit, killing a specific dungeon boss, etc, should all be basic challenges. Grandmaster traits however should be more like a quest where you learn something from a master.

jucca.8219:

Well they decided to make this game similar to the version in China.

No. It was always intended and most of what they implemented was a source of complaints or even asked for by players around launch and beta. China was only used to test it.

Yeah, my late 40’s Thief is having the same issues. He just his 49 today and got. . . a selection of three swords. Ignore the fact that I don’t use a sword on this Thief, and that it was Soulbound so I can’t even TP it, or that it just used the generic sword skin so it didn’t even provide an interesting skin. . . no, don’t ignore any of that stuff because it was all horrible. I think in the previous few levels I’d gotten amulets and rings and stuff. Before the “fix” I would have gotten another skillpoint and another trait point, and better stats. Those are good things to have.

It’s just horrible.

At level at level 48 I got my 4th Trait point, but previously at level 48 I had the equivalent of seven trait points, and was putting them into the second tier of traits, while currently I’m still stuck in the first tier.

I started this character before the first Trait change, so he was grandfathered in to not have his traits locked out, but if not for that he wouldn’t even have anything useful to put those points into because everything useful would be locked. When I created him, I was really looking forward to moving him through the leveling process as I had with my previous characters, but over time I’ve had less and less interest, because there’s basically no point to being less than 80 anymore.

Labjax.2465:

The trait changes weren’t part of the NPE

I think they made the trait gain even more a pita with the NPE … just grinded a new
ranger from 55 to 80 yesterday and i got traits no also in packs of 2 .. so instead of
a trait every 5-6 levels its now 2 traits every 10 level or whatever.

And yes .. i really plain grinded that char .. birthday-booster, kill-strike boosters and then
killing all yellow mobs in Dredgehaunt Cliffs … gave me around 4 levels per hour.

Ahh .. and the exotics you get as level rewards are simply a bad joke .. armor all with condition damage, vita/toughness and healpower or so and weapon at 63 was an axe with condition damage for me as a ranger .. in the low level at least there were some longbows.
And of course you can’ t even salvage them .. so 4 exotic just for the trash can.

Beldin.5498:

Labjax.2465:

The trait changes weren’t part of the NPE

I think they made the trait gain even more a pita with the NPE … just grinded a new
ranger from 55 to 80 yesterday and i got traits no also in packs of 2 .. so instead of
a trait every 5-6 levels its now 2 traits every 10 level or whatever.

And yes .. i really plain grinded that char .. birthday-booster, kill-strike boosters and then
killing all yellow mobs in Dredgehaunt Cliffs … gave me around 4 levels per hour.

Ahh .. and the exotics you get as level rewards are simply a bad joke .. armor all with condition damage, vita/toughness and healpower or so and weapon at 63 was an axe with condition damage for me as a ranger .. in the low level at least there were some longbows.
And of course you can’ t even salvage them .. so 4 exotic just for the trash can.

The bit about traits were not from the NPE. Since the trait system change in April, you’ve always gotten more than 1 trait point at higher levels: From 66 onwards, you get 2 points every 6 levels instead of 1.

As for your other complaint, those would be subjective. Not everyone dislikes a variation in stat combinations, nor does everyone have one set weapon they will absolutely use and ignore all others.

Beldin.5498:

Labjax.2465:

The trait changes weren’t part of the NPE

I think they made the trait gain even more a pita with the NPE …
…

Agreed. No more alts for me. “Just say no” to new character slots.

I don’t know what everyone is complaining about, I not only leveled up my new toon faster, but enjoyed the level up rewards, so this new mechanic doesn’t bother me at all.

People like to nitpick about something simply because it’s different from what they’re used to. They fail to see any merit in those systems because of this, which is the actual sad part in all this.

I got lucky with my mesmer.
I’d bought the books before the changes, so when they did hit, I had been given all but the new ones they added with the changes.
I was not so lucky with my guardian or thief.
I tried unlocking with the guardian.
That didn’t go so well.
Waiting weeks, being ineffective, trying to fight handicapped.
I hated it.
So, When I made my thief, I payed.
And it broke my bank, it rendered me just as ineffective, because I was using all my skill points on traits, instead of skills.

Something really should be done, if the traits are going to cost skill points, then there needs to be more skill points available along the way, Not a boost every few levels.
I think the way to solve it is to give a point every level and the 7 bonus points on every 7th level. Or double the amount of skill challeges in the 1 – 15 and 15 – 25 areas.

The soulbound unsalvageable level rewards are an ok idea, but I think I mentioned they are unsalvageable. After all the complaining about unsalvageable karma, order, and wvw gear, they add more of it to the game. Why. Am I really going to level a character to 65 just to have a shot at salvaging 3 linen scraps? I hate unsalvageable gear.

I have been leveling since the patch but I’m cheating and using scrolls and tomes, so can’t say much about it. My character does seem quite strong, now that I’ve hit 60 and can use traveler runes so running around doing stuff is more fun.

Elsdragon.5109:

People like to nitpick about something simply because it’s different from what they’re used to. They fail to see any merit in those systems because of this, which is the actual sad part in all this.

It isn’t a nitpick, it’s a serious problem. The trait changes made build experimentation either prohibitively expensive, or extremely time consuming (and then only really after level 80). This is a big issue for a lot of players.

Account binding the trait unlocks might have been a reasonable compromise, but they haven’t even done that. Which means that the expense or tedium is repeated with every character. People have stopped buying gems and recommending the game over this, which means even if you never make alts, this will negatively affect you as well in the long run.

Whether its the NPE or something else, something feels very off to me.

I ran into the same thing in Champions Online. If I recall, you got to select a new super power every three levels or something like that. The other two offered “boring” things like incremental stat increases. So in effect the “fun” rewards only occurred after three levels and it felt sloooooooooow.

That’s how GW2 feels to me now. I’m getting next to no rewards to keep me motivated to get to 80, where the real character building has been shuffled.

Add on top of that other design choices: limited weapons, fixed skills per weapon. So quickly you grow familiar with it all. Very few interesting gear and weapon drops during the normal course of leveling. No real impact or importance to starting character story choices.

Anet needs to stop worrying about the stupid Living World for a moment and start worrying about helping players build Living Characters.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Elsdragon.5109:

People like to nitpick about something simply because it’s different from what they’re used to. They fail to see any merit in those systems because of this, which is the actual sad part in all this.

It isn’t a nitpick, it’s a serious problem. The trait changes made build experimentation either prohibitively expensive, or extremely time consuming (and then only really after level 80). This is a big issue for a lot of players.

Account binding the trait unlocks might have been a reasonable compromise, but they haven’t even done that. Which means that the expense or tedium is repeated with every character. People have stopped buying gems and recommending the game over this, which means even if you never make alts, this will negatively affect you as well in the long run.

I was commenting more on the NPE’s skill point change, but I don’t think it’s as dire as you would put it even with the trait system. Although I will admit that there are ways to better implement the system than the current one.

Creating retro-active leveling shackles is just such obvious fail. It should have been this way at release…or not at all. Screw the new players, it’s a 2 year old game, cater to the player and player base that has played since day one and continues too. It’s not like a million new players are going to turn up and suddenly think GW2 is the bees knees because of the NPE.

I can’t believe they didn’t get a clue after the over-whelming complaint after the trait system change. GW has a reputation for being an MMO you can have fun in quickly and easily, max level faster than other MMO’s and access skills and build freedom faster than other MMO’s. Gamers recognise Anet and GW for being that type of game.

Instead of embracing such a differential and marketable point of difference in comparison to the rest of the market they are just slowly making changes to conform to the same stale formulae of every other MMORPG.

Grind for the right to swing a rusty spoon.

Squeesidhe.4761:

Whether its the NPE or something else, something feels very off to me.

I ran into the same thing in Champions Online. If I recall, you got to select a new super power every three levels or something like that. The other two offered “boring” things like incremental stat increases. So in effect the “fun” rewards only occurred after three levels and it felt sloooooooooow.

That’s how GW2 feels to me now. I’m getting next to no rewards to keep me motivated to get to 80, where the real character building has been shuffled.

Add on top of that other design choices: limited weapons, fixed skills per weapon. So quickly you grow familiar with it all. Very few interesting gear and weapon drops during the normal course of leveling. No real impact or importance to starting character story choices.

Anet needs to stop worrying about the stupid Living World for a moment and start worrying about helping players build Living Characters.

Oh? What rewards did you get leveling after launch, before the April 15th patch. I’m very interested to know.

You got 1 skill point, 1 trait point and some stats which they never told you you got.

If you didn’t have all your 1 point skills by level 50 or so, they must have been really crappy skills. Most of the skills you’d have been missing by then would be six, ten or thirty point skills.

Back then, a single trait point gave you a few stats. If that excited you, I don’t know what to tell you. They barely made any different at all.

You didn’t get to put points into a minor or major trait but every five levels.

fireflyry.7023:

Creating retro-active leveling shackles is just such obvious fail. It should have been this way at release…or not at all. Screw the new players, it’s a 2 year old game, cater to the player and player base that has played since day one and continues too. It’s not like a million new players are going to turn up and suddenly think GW2 is the bees knees because of the NPE.

I can’t believe they didn’t get a clue after the over-whelming complaint after the trait system change. GW has a reputation for being an MMO you can have fun in quickly and easily, max level faster than other MMO’s and access skills and build freedom faster than other MMO’s. Gamers recognise Anet and GW for being that type of game.

Instead of embracing such a differential and marketable point of difference in comparison to the rest of the market they are just slowly making changes to conform to the same stale formulae of every other MMORPG.

Grind for the right to swing a rusty spoon.

I’m sorry, but could you elaborate your points better rather than jump from one point to the next without so much as a reason or connection? The trait system is not the major part of what makes GW2 so different, at least not from my point of view. As for level gating, aside from weapon skills (which you unlock quite fast as levels 1 to 15 are easy to get) and a few account-wide unlocks, there’s not much gated behind levels.

Speaking in general terms and sounding angry does not make a good argument. In what way has GW2 “conformed” to other MMO’s?

Elsdragon.5109:

fireflyry.7023:

Creating retro-active leveling shackles is just such obvious fail. It should have been this way at release…or not at all. Screw the new players, it’s a 2 year old game, cater to the player and player base that has played since day one and continues too. It’s not like a million new players are going to turn up and suddenly think GW2 is the bees knees because of the NPE.

I can’t believe they didn’t get a clue after the over-whelming complaint after the trait system change. GW has a reputation for being an MMO you can have fun in quickly and easily, max level faster than other MMO’s and access skills and build freedom faster than other MMO’s. Gamers recognise Anet and GW for being that type of game.

Instead of embracing such a differential and marketable point of difference in comparison to the rest of the market they are just slowly making changes to conform to the same stale formulae of every other MMORPG.

Grind for the right to swing a rusty spoon.

I’m sorry, but could you elaborate your points better rather than jump from one point to the next without so much as a reason or connection? The trait system is not the major part of what makes GW2 so different, at least not from my point of view. As for level gating, aside from weapon skills (which you unlock quite fast as levels 1 to 15 are easy to get) and a few account-wide unlocks, there’s not much gated behind levels.

Speaking in general terms and sounding angry does not make a good argument. In what way has GW2 “conformed” to other MMO’s?

No.

I’m perfectly entitled to my opinion without having to delve into semantics as justification. Your rebuttal is far from sound argument. The changes are blatantly obvious.

Entitled to your opinion, yes. Does it make a good argument just stating your opinion? No.

Also, that was not a rebuttal but rather a request for elaboration as you’re points are all over the place. There have been changes, yes. However, I don’t see how they can make the game stale or are a means to “conform” to other MMO’s. The fact that you’re not saying anything but simply “this is bad” and “it ruins the game for me” and “it is gonna be the downfall of this game” means you have little to no proof to back it up.

Elsdragon.5109:

Entitled to your opinion, yes. Does it make a good argument just stating your opinion? No.

Also, that was not a rebuttal but rather a request for elaboration as you’re points are all over the place. There have been changes, yes. However, I don’t see how they can make the game stale or are a means to “conform” to other MMO’s. The fact that you’re not saying anything but simply “this is bad” and “it ruins the game for me” and “it is gonna be the downfall of this game” means you have little to no proof to back it up.

Opinions don’t need to be defensible arguments, man. They are just that – opinions.

They kinda are when you post them in a public forum and expect people to agree with you.

Edit: Seriously, if you can’t defend your opinion and can’t take criticisms against your opinion, then why bother posting them? I would welcome a serious discussion on what people felt were wrong with the current system and why, rather than reading big blocks of text saying vaguely what they think is wrong and giving doomsday predictions because of those vaguely stated points.

Elsdragon.5109:

Entitled to your opinion, yes. Does it make a good argument just stating your opinion? No.

Also, that was not a rebuttal but rather a request for elaboration as you’re points are all over the place. There have been changes, yes. However, I don’t see how they can make the game stale or are a means to “conform” to other MMO’s. The fact that you’re not saying anything but simply “this is bad” and “it ruins the game for me” and “it is gonna be the downfall of this game” means you have little to no proof to back it up.

Back up what? My opinion and observation? Thats redundant rebuttal. I was purely and obviously stating my opinion. If you wish to twist that into some form of debate that’s your call.

“Prove it or ur wrong!!!” is the bane of gaming forums and ending of most forum debates and expression. Prove your right. If you can’t see the obvious and over-whelming disapproval from the forum community in regards to the trait change (maybe two threads above this one) and NPE (pretty much every second thread in general since it was released) in conjunction with the obvious and counter-intuitive similarities the NPE leveling system has with other MMO leveling as compared to the GW2 leveling system at initial release well…ok….thx…bye

Elsdragon.5109:

They kinda are when you post them in a public forum and expect people to agree with you.

Nah, you’re creating the expectation that people need agree. Sometimes people just want to say something and Anet might benefit from hearing how they feel. Not everything needs to be checked at the door for logical soundness.

What I have a problem with is that most people who complain simply complain with no real reason. What he claims to be a massive uproar is similar to his complaints, without a reason or cause. It is true that saying something just so Anet will hear it is sometimes important, but not when it’s unfounded and simply because “they want to revert the system”.

Those kinds of remarks actually make it seem like the necessity to revert is not that high as people simply cry out for what they are familiar with rather than what is wrong with the current system. If you keep claiming that there is something obviously wrong, but fail to ever state that point, then I am just gonna assume you are trying to delay answering the question until people just agree with you in hopes of not looking like an idiot in your eyes. Ever read “The Emperor’s New Clothes”? Because whenever someone doesn’t say something they claim to be obvious, then I will assume they are trying for a tactic similar to the weavers in that story.

Elsdragon.5109:

What I have a problem with is that most people who complain simply complain with no real reason. What he claims to be a massive uproar is similar to his complaints, without a reason or cause. It is true that saying something just so Anet will hear it is sometimes important, but not when it’s unfounded and simply because “they want to revert the system”.

Those kinds of remarks actually make it seem like the necessity to revert is not that high as people simply cry out for what they are familiar with rather than what is wrong with the current system. If you keep claiming that there is something obviously wrong, but fail to ever state that point, then I am just gonna assume you are trying to delay answering the question until people just agree with you in hopes of not looking like an idiot in your eyes. Ever read “The Emperor’s New Clothes”? Because whenever someone doesn’t say something they claim to be obvious, then I will assume they are trying for a tactic similar to the weavers in that story.

You’re reading way too much into one post. There are plenty of other posts in this thread where people may be more interested in arguing with you.

Elsdragon.5109:

They kinda are when you post them in a public forum and expect people to agree with you.

It’s your expectations at fault here my friend.

Elsdragon.5109:

What I have a problem with is that most people who complain simply complain with no real reason. What he claims to be a massive uproar is similar to his complaints, without a reason or cause.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/first

Replies: 2537 Views: 123,087

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/first

Replies: 555 Views: 26,351

Elsdragon.5109:

It is true that saying something just so Anet will hear it is sometimes important, but not when it’s unfounded and simply because “they want to revert the system”.

Those kinds of remarks actually make it seem like the necessity to revert is not that high as people simply cry out for what they are familiar with rather than what is wrong with the current system. If you keep claiming that there is something obviously wrong, but fail to ever state that point, then I am just gonna assume you are trying to delay answering the question until people just agree with you in hopes of not looking like an idiot in your eyes. Ever read “The Emperor’s New Clothes”? Because whenever someone doesn’t say something they claim to be obvious, then I will assume they are trying for a tactic similar to the weavers in that story.

Your just creating argument for the sake of it. People should be free to come here, or any forum of such nature, and express their personal opinion on a thread topic without someone suddenly challenging and miss-interpreting their opinion as fact or reasoning for unjustified rebuttal and/or argument, from what I can gather, merely because you personally have a different view of things.

There is also another cliched saying…why state the obvious?

fireflyry.7023:

Back up what? My opinion and observation? Thats redundant rebuttal. I was purely and obviously stating my opinion. If you wish to twist that into some form of debate that’s your call.

“Prove it or ur wrong!!!” is the bane of gaming forums and ending of most forum debates and expression. Prove your right. If you can’t see the obvious and over-whelming disapproval from the forum community in regards to the trait change (maybe two threads above this one) and NPE (pretty much every second thread in general since it was released) in conjunction with the obvious and counter-intuitive similarities the NPE leveling system has with other MMO leveling as compared to the GW2 leveling system at initial release well…ok….thx…bye

You are so off your statements it is sad to read. You’re just using these tactics to sound like a victim whereas you’re simply victimizing yourself.

Let me state what is wrong with your initial post:

-There is little to no level gating in the NPE that isn’t account-wide. Weapon skills are unlocked by level, yes, but those levels are easily gained and are therefore negligible.

-You criticize the company’s attempt to enlarge its player base where a (possibly large) portion of their income comes from. I’m sorry if you feel neglected, but I don’t even as a veteran of both GW1 and GW2. This NPE is beneficial even to me.

-Your point on the trait system is sort of valid, but unconnected, and if so is poorly executed. Access to skills can be quite difficult in GW1, especially elite skills. You’d need to hunt down a boss, kill it, and use a Signet of Capture on its corpse to get it. Or you could pay to unlock it and learn it with a tome, either bought from another player or obtained in Hard Mode. Is this not similar to the trait system?

-GW2 is still very different from other MMO’s. You failed to mention anything about the NPE that makes it “conform” to other MMO’s besides repeatedly stating “it’s obvious”.

-That last comment had little to no place or connection.

So all you’ve done with that is state how unhappy you are about the changes. If that’s all you wanted to say, why comment in this thread at all? Why not make a new thread and state it there? The fact that you commented here means you want to discuss what we’ve been discussing here, and yet you don’t want to explain your comment?

All I see from that is you just chiming in hoping you would sound smart, but are now running away and hiding behind other people’s posts when someone called you out. If you don’t like that, then don’t post in a place called “Guild Wars 2 Discussion”. Go post on your social media page or whatever. Discussion means discussion like debates and arguments, especially when you post in a thread with an ongoing discussion.

I give up. Off to play GW2.

Cya.

Labjax.2465:

You’re reading way too much into one post. There are plenty of other posts in this thread where people may be more interested in arguing with you.

I ding level 30 on my Engineer and finally have access to Traits!

I open up the Trait Panel….I have 1 POINT…1 Trait Point to spend.

Yeah, after 30 levels and a handful of Traits Unlocked…I get 1 Point to spend.

I got my friend to try a trial. And he had a few complaints.

Wanted more character customization
Didn’t like starting armor, so now he runs around with NO armor…
And wanted a hyena pet. So I had to guide a level 10 through a level 40 zone for a tamable hyena….(to the people that helped, ty.)

I haven’t heard any complaints so far about the system.

Serophous.9085:

I got my friend to try a trial. And he had a few complaints.

Wanted more character customization
Didn’t like starting armor, so now he runs around with NO armor…
And wanted a hyena pet. So I had to guide a level 10 through a level 40 zone for a tamable hyena….(to the people that helped, ty.)

I haven’t heard any complaints so far about the system.

Your friend sounds like a riot.

Well having leveled 9 characters before the change and now being on my 10th, I like the new leveling system. I love how they reward you with different stuff each time you get a level. The fact that skill points are bundled now instead of 1 per level isnt that much of a change since later on skills cost 6 or more points (up to 30), so you wouldnt be able to spend them every level anyways. And if you find yourself 1 short, that is no problem. Just go do a skill challenge. But I never change my skills anyways. I know from even before I make the character what build it will be using. So I pop my level 20 scroll and probably have all the skills I will ever use anyways.

Labjax.2465:

Serophous.9085:

I got my friend to try a trial. And he had a few complaints.

Wanted more character customization
Didn’t like starting armor, so now he runs around with NO armor…
And wanted a hyena pet. So I had to guide a level 10 through a level 40 zone for a tamable hyena….(to the people that helped, ty.)

I haven’t heard any complaints so far about the system.

Your friend sounds like a riot.

Yeah, unfortunately he chose the wrong server, so if he does get the game, I’ll have to do it again….

Just remade my Engineer as a Sylvari (I have five out of ten slots as that race now, I have a problem >.> ) and I don’t have any more level 20 scrolls so I’m going through the whole thing again for the first time after the NPE. So far it’s not horrible, but it’s kinda… not better? During the tutorial, it’s really not exciting to fight the final boss with only your autoattack unlocked. In fact, it’s not exciting ever to have to level up to unlock weapon skills (and no underwater combat until level 8 for some reason. I did actually fall into the water with some mobs in it, all I could do was dodge and run away.) Plus, they insisted on giving me pistols until like level ten, even though I prefer the rifle as a weapon.

Really don’t appreciate not having utility skills (or the choice of other healing skills) until level 13 and up. I’ll admit it’s made me quite good at using rifle crowd control/lining up my shots, but I think for an actual new player it would just make them squishy and die more often. I’ve insta died once so far, but it was because I went into an area 5 or so levels higher to be able to gather stuff for the daily (I do what I want!) I was told I could not use my Krait obelisk thing until level 10 for some reason, even though I could use the skill thing at the spiral JP at level 3.

Super annoying not having traits. Can’t comment yet on the ones that have to be unlocked via specific events or what have you, since I haven’t even unlocked traits as a whole. Also, the first utility skill they specifically gave me was the potion that turns conditions into boons. Uh… thanks? Even though almost no starter mobs cause conditions? I hate hobo sacks, but having a kit or a turret as my first given utility would be MUCH better.

Edit: For clarity, I have played since pre-release and have ten characters – four 80s, three around their 60s, a 35, a 26, and now the level 13 engi.

Serophous.9085:

Labjax.2465:

Serophous.9085:

I got my friend to try a trial. And he had a few complaints.

Wanted more character customization
Didn’t like starting armor, so now he runs around with NO armor…
And wanted a hyena pet. So I had to guide a level 10 through a level 40 zone for a tamable hyena….(to the people that helped, ty.)

I haven’t heard any complaints so far about the system.

Your friend sounds like a riot.

Yeah, unfortunately he chose the wrong server, so if he does get the game, I’ll have to do it again….

Lol, ouch.

Elsdragon.5109:

I was commenting more on the NPE’s skill point change, but I don’t think it’s as dire as you would put it even with the trait system. Although I will admit that there are ways to better implement the system than the current one.

I’m a defender of the game (I’m more annoyed by lack of communication more than anything), and I actually like the NPE for the most part.

That said, while it’s obviously subjective, I’m not exaggerating about how bad the trait system is for many. If you like making alts, and experimenting with builds, it’s legitimately game breaking. Obviously, not everyone cares about that, but it will definitely cost ANet both gem sales and word of mouth purchases.

And, in addition to all the trait/skill barriers we can enjoy utterly castrated starting zones.

People need to consider the whole picture.

No one is complaining about the newly added rewards for leveling, it’s the hard restrictions and gating of TRAITS (April) and now Skills/Abilities (September) that’s twisting people’s shorts up.

Ostensibly, I put more weight into the opinions of people who have leveled extensively under both systems (pre-April and after) then I do of players who are now just tuning in.

The drib and drab progression of the post April TRAIT changes PLUS the September level gating has borked the game in significant ways.

No one should really be rejoicing about having your character being significantly hobbled throughout the leveling progression from 1 to 80.

TRAITS:
Level	Points earned	Total points
30	                   1	                         1
36	                   1	                         2
42	                   1	                         3
48	                   1	                         4
54	                   1	                         5
60	                   1	                         6
66	                   2	                         8
72	                   2	                       10
78	                   2	                       12
80	                   2	                       14

The following are level gated items:

Weapon skill 2 (Unlocked at level 2)

Weapon skill 3 (Unlocked at level 3) 

Rally(downstate) (Unlocked at level 5)

Off-hand weapon slot (Unlocked at level 7)

Weapon skill 4 (Unlocked at level 7)

Underwater Combat (Unlocked at level 8 with underwater weapon skills 1 and 2)

Personal story (Unlocked at level 10 in chapters every 10 levels)

Weapon skill 5 (Unlocked at level 10)

Utility Skill 1 (Unlocked at level 13)

Underwater skill 3 (Unlocked at level 14)

Weapon Swap (Unlocked at level 15)

Down Skill 3 (Unlocked at level 19)

Underwater skill 5 (Unlocked at level 23

Utility Skill 2 (Unlocked at level 24)

Adept Tier Traits (Unlocked at level 30)

Elite Skill (Unlocked at level 31)

Master Traits (Unlocked at level 60)

Grandmaster Traits (Unlocked at level 80)

It’s like ANet is doing its best to rip the remaining fun from the ONE segment of the player population who actually enjoyed the journey from level 1 to 80.

Seriously, in a game where the (often) irrational shrilling complaint is about not enough “end-game”, why would you sabotage the area most people were relatively content with?

Elsdragon.5109:

People like to nitpick about something simply because it’s different from what they’re used to. They fail to see any merit in those systems because of this, which is the actual sad part in all this.

because there is no merit to the new system. that is what people are saying.